And welcome everybody on YouTube here. We are Kyle. Do you make it over?
sure and
Rob to firefly you there. I am right here, and I don't see Gila, but I assume she's somewhere
She's that briefly away. She'll be right back. Okay, and Alex. Are you there? I?
Am here great. Okay. Well, you know a million people are gonna ask us what that was was negative land
I know it's one of my favorite tracks of all time time zones. I
Could listen to that all day. In fact, I have listened to that all day
That's why I played it tonight because I couldn't stop listening to it
There's a whole thing with radio Moscow calling
an operator from the 1980s and
Just all kinds of incredible things. Yeah, great audio
Soundscape and collage. So mm-hmm. Hope people enjoyed that
Phone line is open. Well, let's not open the phone line quite yet because we should close it
We want to well, let's let's have a little bit of a conversation because we're talking about about Google and you know
Rewriting the rules on passwords
there is this whole story about iPhones and how people are losing their lives because
iPhones get compromised. Has anyone heard about this Alex? You have an iPhone, right? I
Do yes, I?
Haven't heard about this this story though. This is a story you're going to
Well, I mean I can I would hope that iPhone users have heard about this because apparently
They're in great danger and this must be warned about this
I'll read the opening paragraphs of this story that was on C&M. It's a complex but concerning
method of gaining control over a user's iPhone and
permanently locking them out of the device
So now some iPhone thieves are exploiting a security setting called the recovery key. Do you have a recovery key Alex?
I do indeed. All right. What is that recovery key?
Hold on. Let me read it to you. Yeah, go ahead
Rob stop laughing. It's not funny
I'm not hearing anything else. Have you you muted? Oh, yeah
I'm sorry. Yeah, I don't have a handy at the moment. Maybe maybe next week. I'll read everybody my recovery key
All right. Well, I was testing you and you you sort of passed the test. Don't give out your recovery key
Don't give out your not one more on the air. Give it to me
Give it to me when we're off the air and we'll take it from there
but the
The recovery key makes it nearly impossible for owners to access their photos messages
Data and more that's according to a recent Wall Street Journal report
Some victims also told the publication their bank accounts were drained
after the thieves gained access to their financial apps and you know, I think the
The thing here is that it's all tied together you put everything on your phone give you phone access to everything that's important
And then you lose access to your phone. You lose access to everything. That's important now
This type of takeover is is rather hard to pull off
It requires a criminal and thank you CNN for saying criminal not a hacker because it does require a criminal
Basically watching an iPhone user enter the device's passcode
By looking over their shoulder in a bar or at a sporting event or really anywhere where there's a shoulder and you can look over
It on camera that too. Yeah, you could record people surveillance. That's how you get passwords at ATMs, you know
Well, yeah, but that's a different story
Manipulating the device's owner, so they'll share their passcode, you know
Rob you were telling me once about the passcode you had that was like so funny. Do you remember that one? Oh
Yeah
What was that again? Oh
You know, I think I've forgotten it
Okay, you guys are good. I gotta say you've you've been trained well
So yeah, get the passcode and then that you have to steal the device on top of that
So obviously you have to get the passcode then get the phone then enter the passcode
And and then use it to change the device's Apple ID
turn off find my iPhone so their location cannot be tracked and
Then reset the recovery key, which Alex has still not given me
That's a complex 28 digit code intended to protect its owners from online hackers is yours 28 digits Alex. I
Would presume it is I haven't looked at this in a really long time
But yeah, probably well Apple requires this key to help reset or regain access to an Apple ID
In an effort to bolster the user security, but if a thief changes it and again CNN, thank you for saying thief
the original owner will not have the new code and will be locked out of the account and
that could only be the beginning of your problems because
You know if they're in the account and you can't get into the account
They can do all kinds of things in your name and maybe lock you out of other accounts as well
Apple's spokesperson said in a statement to CNN
We sympathize with people who have had this experience and we take all attacks on our users very seriously no matter how rare
We work tirelessly every day to protect our users accounts and data and are always investigating additional protections
Against emerging threats like this one
But on its website Apple warns you're responsible for maintaining access to your trusted devices and your recovery key
If you lose both of these items, you could be locked out of your account permanently
so
What you can do is you can protect your your passcode
Or as Apple is suggesting and this might sound kind of familiar
You can use face ID or touch ID when unlocking your phone in public to avoid revealing
Your passcode to anyone who might be watching. So this is basically the same thing. Google is saying stop using passwords
Use your face instead use your finger instead because
Criminals thieves can't get a hold of those things at least not not without you noticing
That's all nice and everything. But you know always
Eventually Apple or an iPhone's will require you to utilize your actual passcode to open up the phone
you know after a certain number of
Logins, I think using biometric methods or if there's been some kind of unusual activity you
So, you know, they're still forcing you to do it or
You know, let's say you have a mask on and you can't unlock your phone because you have a mask on your face
I mean, even though I know people will call in or write in and say Oh Apple
Introduced some feature that now allows you to unlock your phone while you're having a mask on but let everybody accept that up and quite
frankly that was introduced so late into the pandemic that
It I think really didn't have a lot of utility but so they still you still need a passcode anyhow
Mm-hmm. Do you think the day will overcome where people aren't using passwords or passcodes?
Yeah, I do. I think I think that they'll be used in far fewer instances in the future
but I don't think that we have
Cracked that not just yet because of this notion of identity belonging not to the individuals
but to
corporations who manage this system of identity in this process of
Authentication for us on the Internet. I think when we control our own identities and authentication systems ourselves
that I think we will
will have more autonomy and
Less reliance on things like passcodes and recovery keys and things like that
Uh-huh. Yeah, it's interesting. There's all these different phrases passwords
Pass phrases
Pass codes and what Google is calling pass keys. I
Mean, it's all kind of confusing to I think the average user like passkey passcode password. What's the difference? I
Have a theory go ahead
Um that passcode or passkey might be something they're trying to get into vogue to get people to stop using
words like
password
You know, so to let people know it doesn't have to necessarily be a dictionary word could be anything
Like a sentence especially like a sentence or the initial letters of a sentence. Well, that's a pass phrase
That's a pass phrase a sentence. So I don't know what the difference between a passkey and a password is
Well, I think a key is something that's generated whereas a word is something you come up with
right and a phrase is
A phrase is like a sentence. Yes longer. I think those are good simple ways to at least try to compartmentalize or
Categorize it
Or ways of thinking about it. Anyway, they suggest that
You back up your phone your iPhone regularly via iCloud or iTunes. Okay, fine Apple
Of course, you're gonna say back up your phone to us
But is there a way to back up an iPhone to something else? Let's say you don't want Apple having your data
Let's say you want it to be someplace. Maybe you control or maybe some other company controls. Is that possible Alex?
Can you back up your phone to a non Apple service? I
Think you can
Well, it would it would be in a format. I think that
Only Apple could well if you use the Apple backup system, then you know, you can back it up locally
But you're still backing it up in a format. I think that's only readable to
Apple itself
but there are ways that you can access the data on the phone and
Copy it to some local system or and then copy it to some third-party system
You know whereby you're not using Apple's backup procedures that that's quite possible. But to back up the entirety of the phone
To a separate place whereby it could just be restored onto a new device
I think you have to use Apple for that. I could be wrong. I don't I don't think you can get around but it's your phone
Shouldn't you have the ability to do what you wish with your data on your phone and back it up to whatever service you want
Well that I mean, I think that's that's an open question here because you know backing up is
You
Well is a process that they could consider to be
proprietary in one way or another based on that, you know the file formats the system they
the way in which the operating system interacts with the device that kind of thing, but
You can you can't get all the data off of your phone
But just not in a way that makes it incredibly easy to replace that data on a new device
It's certainly the the portability of their operating system and what you've agreed
ostensibly to license or be a user of is
is
going to work on other
systems or in a an outside way at
Your own peril. I mean, there's their their
obligation to make their
Obligation to make their
backups as widely portable and exportable
as possible is
Very minimal. I mean they have the expectation that you might use more of their services to protect it
But to exfiltrate it it's it's the more you think about it. It's the antithesis of
Protecting a device or locking it down as it were. However, you want to put it
The more exportable it is the easier it is to exfiltrate people's data and that's exactly what you're not trying to avoid
in so far as protecting
users and providing a service
or having the service providers trust the hardware is going to
Work on their service for their customers in a reliable safe way
well the point that I think we're slowly arriving at is that
We want to believe we own our devices we want to believe we own our data
But that's conditional at best and at worst we don't own anything
We're just leasing time on a device and could all go away on a whim
You know, it's it's something that we're seeing frequently. I think because of the
Capabilities of these devices we really and what I'm hearing here and barring some future
Development or something that has really easy uptake or that's just super invasive like implanted or some sort of
hardware software key
That's you know, maybe somewhat biometric. I don't know like based on you know, you're you're
You're unique unique vibes, you know, whatever security crystals they issue people
you know until then our
Our
We're going to be working in an environment where we need to treat these highly capable general computers that are running a very proprietary
limited
User interface and operating system to work with baseband and communicate with the towers and the service provider
Yeah, I mean, you know, let's just treat it like it's a phone like the less reliant you are on this
Convenience factor which all of these things really are banking apps
Yeah convenient to have it but is it less convenient than it ruining your life and draining your bank accounts exactly
Yeah, you're you're your ex-spouse or you're you know domestic or other, you know
exposures of your device being out there just
Add that much more trouble if that device is a point of failure in your overall personal security. So I just think like
The that until that little, you know magical idealized security scheme is is realized in a way
That's actually got uptake and people like are like, yeah, this makes sense. I can do this
You're gonna get this
wordy pitching and and oh
Well, we'll at least back it up when when it fails because they don't have a lot of high confidence or this
idealized
mechanism in place yet or
Even in in the pipe so to speak so you you should just behave as though this this
Ought not be a single point of failure because they also make things like cloning like having a backup phone
very impossible because of the the way they issue identity identity on the network and
And and and issue heart, you know hardened security and in the handsets themselves and and how they issue them to customers
So it gets increasing the more complex they make it. It's just
Creating a more enticing target because so many people will then trust Apple inherently because of their
Security prowess or or Google because again, they've hyped up all these other little
resilience features that are supposed to make you more comfortable being your true self on their platform or
Divulging or otherwise linking all these really, you know crucial things like personal finance and so forth
I think people need to ask themselves the question. What would happen if I lost my phone? How much would my life be destroyed?
Will you lose all your pictures? Will you lose all your communications? Will you lose access to to?
vital
Accounts or apps or things like that?
Assume that you're going to lose your phone or that your phone will be stolen or might maybe we'll just blow up
You know anything is possible. Do you have a plan? Do you have a way of?
Copying your data having it available someplace else
That you control because yeah, it's all fine and good to
To back up to these services, but hey these services go away, too
We've seen it countless times where all of a sudden they're just
There there's sun setting. That's a nice way of saying it
There's sun setting a certain service and you're screwed, you know
You don't have access and if if you're not paying attention and you miss it your date is gone
You need to have control over that if it's something you really trust and you know
that it's going to be around and by all means go for that, but
Ideally having your data locally having your pictures on a device you can control, you know physically that is the best
The best solution I think and I don't think enough people do that
So I can say, you know, I can lose my phone tomorrow be a pain in the ass have to get another phone
But I'm not gonna lose pictures. I'm not gonna lose conversations. I'm not gonna lose, you know anything that
Is really going to be that much of a concern. I don't do banking from my phone. I think that would be crazy
and you know, it's
It's a device. He's just treated as a convenience and not as your life. I would just add just
Creative ideas, you know break up where you put different things, you know, there are a myriad of ways to
to save like you said periodically
Files from the SD cards like photos things that are important that you want to back up of anyway contact lists
Maybe you know print that or copy it down somewhere or have a little address book that you keep in a junk drawer
Whatever works for you, but have a other sources of that information and even an additional device
They're really affordable even that you don't have full control over. I had a contact list on one of my previous phones
It was perfect, right on you my friends and then one day
It was I guess it was the phone manufacturer decided it was a good idea
To simply assume everybody that I followed on Twitter was a contact and merged it with my contacts and to this day
Yeah, I can't get rid of all the people that I follow on Twitter and and and have
You know a separate list of contacts. They can really screw things up if you're not careful. I've had the same experience
Yeah, so again, like you said be very
closely
Guarding your ability to control that stuff and be very deliberate about which and where and how you're accessing it
Because if you're you know, thoughtful and you put something together a system that works you can actually make it a really
tricky
problem for someone to try to
Victimize you in any of these ways the other thing separate yourself from your phone, you know
Don't have your phone by your bed, you know, don't let it wake you up in the middle of the night
Turn your phone off or just put it at some place else or put it in silent mode and have hours to yourself
so many people don't do that and and that that is the cause of stress that is a cause of
You know just so much people at work think they can just contact you anytime or somebody sends it
I've pissed people off by sending a message while they were sleeping and I don't think
Even email I don't think I'm waking somebody up if I'm typing on a terminal and sending a message
But I am because people
Every time there's an alert of any sort a new message. They have to know immediately. That's not a healthy way to live
But I just want to say I think you know on that very subject
If I recall correctly at page 52 of volume 40
Of 2600 there is an excellent article about this very subject of disconnection
Would that be your article Alex, I thought I think you might be right about that
I think you might be right about that manual. Yeah, I would have bet everything I owned on that but
But yeah, no, it is it is a very good column that that you write on every in every issue
But tell us tell us what's in this one
well, this one is about I
Wrote it when I was in room five of the Chelsea Arts Club in London
Oh now they're never gonna be able to rent that room again. It's gonna be on
There's gonna be a waiting list for people to get into the room you were in yeah
Well, it's hard to get into that room anyway, right because you have to be a member of the club in order to stay there
So it's uh, you know, it's a it's a little bit tough
But so the Chelsea Arts Club is this really interesting wonderful bohemian shit kind of place in in
Chelsea in London. I've done the show numerous times from there now and it's a
It's a it's a private members club that consists mostly of artists and writers and sculptors and vigil artists there
I'm proud to say there are almost no lawyers there. Be careful of sculptors, by the way sculptors are a nasty bunch
Yeah, they can be they can be you know, they often have chisels and things to a poor sense of humor. Yeah. Yeah
Absolutely. Very funny say the wrong thing and never mind
But anyway, one of the the best things about the Chelsea Arts Club is that when you're inside there's only one rule unlike a lot
of the stuffy gentlemen's clubs of London where there are these fancy dress codes and you need to
You have wear a tie every time you you know, take a piss or something, but
Yeah, it's a Chelsea Arts Club. There's no dress code whatsoever
And there's only one rule and the rule is that you're not allowed to use a mobile device
Cellphone any kind of electronic device while you're in the club and you have already said that you've done the radio show from the
Club using an electronic device or perhaps you could explain to our listeners how you bypass their rules if you have a room
Inside room 5 you're staying in the club
You know, you can be in your bedroom and you can be using a device but not when you're amongst other people in the club
I don't presumably if somebody else is in your room with you
Of course, but if you're at the bar if you're at the dining area if you're in the back garden anywhere else in the club
You are not allowed to use your phone and it's and it's kind of wonderful
You know that the breakfast table there is this legendary place
you said this huge table in the dining area and you sit down and
There's all the newspapers that are laid out people come into the dining area sit down next to you and and you just start talking
You know you talk about you know, what's going on in the world, what are you reading?
What's what do you have going on in your day-to-day people just strike up?
Conversation with each other and nobody is staring at their phone. It just never comes out of their pockets
Most people don't even have their phones on them
Can I ask not to be a wise guy or anything like that?
But does the bartender have a phone in case there's a delivery in the back or something?
The bartender probably has a phone on him or her
You know and if there was you know
Some urgent need to go and check your phone you can go into the the lobby area right where you come in
Into the club. You're allowed to use your phone right there call an uber or something like that, but
Anywhere else you're the bartender doesn't to go to the lobby to answer a call from a delivery driver
Does he and we can do that in them because he can't just leave it unattended
Maybe but I don't think the bartender would be getting calls from the delivery driver
You'd have the people at reception probably handling that anyway, well, they got a shout to him
Oh, by the way, there's a delivery or are they gonna call him on the internal system?
Well, they don't probably just walk through the one door that you need to get through to get to the bar from reception
I'm actually collecting a lot of information from what you're telling me, but okay, that's yeah, that's good
Now I know how to make a delivery to the place
Very good. So yes, this this is part of
Alex's regular column that is in 2600 and by the way Alex
You you you mentioned to great disruption at the beginning of the show that it was our 40th anniversary
And 40 years and I I was doing some math
throughout the hour and I realized
it's not really true because
we put out our first issue in January of 1984 and
this is now May of
2023 and
40 years would be 2024 not
2023 so the mistake you made was assuming that volume 40 meant 40 years
We're in the 40th. We're starting the 40th year, but we haven't done it for 40 years yet. You see the difference
Well, the other mistake I may have made then would be trusting the cover of the magazine that says 40 years of dedicated service
Progress of the sort but then yet yet another mistake that you made was assuming that that was referring to the magazine 40 years of service
Could be the you know, the local mechanic who I you know wanted to congratulate for doing what he's done for so long
No, it is. It is our 40th anniversary. Oh, I know kidding aside
But all year long all year long, but then the real 40th anniversary would be next January
Yeah, I mean, uh, I do you want to do anything next January for this real 40th anniversary as opposed to
Like to save it for the 50th to be honest, you know, that's that's the big one. Yeah
Well, they're not mutually exclusive. You can have a party at 40 and a party at 50
You say that now but when the 50th comes up, you'll say oh man, you know
I don't have the energy to you know, do this yet again and you had a party 10 years ago
So maybe you should just you know, be thankful for what you got. I've had this conversation so many times
To that though is you know, not to be too somber about it, but there are people that are here now
that and we'll be here next year that won't be here 10 years from now and I think of in particular of our
Friend Jim to whom we had to say goodbye this year. That's right
These things happen and you got it. You got it
You know, you get life is it is a series of happy memories and you're gonna try to make those
But yes, you you do have to embrace the the time that you have absolutely
Well, we know rebel would come just tell us which CEO they rented out. We don't need a party
We don't we don't need okay, you know, I want to I want to share one more article and then we can maybe open up phones
But in keeping with this whole you don't own your technology
You don't own your technology, you don't own your technology
You don't own your technology, you don't own your technology
But in keeping with this whole you don't own your technology you don't own your data
I was reading the gamer.com. I know we probably all read that at some point and
The headline here is what Jedi survivor is doing with physical copies
Should be illegal. Yeah, I want you to hear what's going on here
Pretty soon
We're going to have to stop using the term physical copy
To refer to the boxes you buy at the store with pictures of video games on the front
When you pick up a plastic case with a ps5 logo and the title of a video game on the front
Pay GameStop $70
And take it home
You may think that what you just did was buy a physical copy of a video game
But when you crack open the case and pop out the disc and yes, there is a disc
you
Basically think you're holding a video game that you now own
Tangible permanent copy of a game pressed onto a blu-ray disc that now belongs to you forever
unfortunately
If the disc you're holding says Star Wars Jedi survivor on it, you'd be dead wrong
It turns out the physical version of Jedi survivor does not actually contain the game at least not all of it
Early copies of the game hit store shelves in New Zealand last weekend and fans on reddit notice some tiny
Easy-to-miss fine print on the front of the box that says download required
Apparently after you insert the disc and install it to your system
You can only play through the intro mission
Before you're prompted to download the rest of the game if for whatever reason you're unable to do that
then the disc disguised as a video game you just bought is useless and
This is not the first game to play this to pull this crap. Just another example in a worrying trend over the last few years
And I think it's something we're gonna be seeing more and more of
Basically, even when you buy a physical copy, you're not actually getting a physical copy
you're getting part of it and you have to go online to get the rest and
You know, this particular article says you can download the rest of the game
I think it'll get more to the point where you can't download the game
you have to be connected at all times in order to play the game and the disc just enables you to start that process and
The time will come when we simply can't have anything tangible
You just have to always be connected to something else
And I think that's a very worrying trend and I you know
I'd like to suggest people just not be connected at all
In fact only get things that work when you're not connected to the Internet assume that we are not connected to the Internet
What about people that can't afford to be connected to the Internet? Do they not get to play video games now?
Go ahead Rob
Absolutely, I mean
I've been into video games for as long as there have been such a thing and you know
I have cartridges in storage for the old Atari systems and Nintendo systems that if I dust one off and plug it into the console
it'll work exactly as it worked the day it was bought and
That's not something that you can really do any anymore because
Pretty much pretty much every game even physical games that you bought that work included on the disc
The first time you start them up
They'll download patches to start to fix all the bugs that they
They left on the game when it went into production because you know, you you don't finish a game now anymore
You don't finish making a game before you sell it to people. But yeah, this is bad for players. It's bad for preservationists
It's bad for outfits like the Internet Archive where they have for preservationist
Purposes old games for you know computers that you can't get anymore systems that you can't get anymore and
You could start these up on an emulator and play them. You're not going to be able to do that with this sort of thing
it's it's it's a hobbling the players ability to
Make use of what they're buying and it hobbles the future's ability
To go back and and get this experience again. Go ahead Alex
One counterpoint here though. Is that there does seem to be a very
Reasonable and logical explanation for why a download is required and you don't have the entirety of the game on the disc
Is that I just look this up and and and according to the you know
Very highly accurate authority of reddit
it does seem like
The discs themselves can only hold about 50 gigs
And a lot of games are a lot larger now than 50 gigs
I presume that this Jedi game is one of them and that's probably why a download is required
So I guess they're making a choice between having the game come with two discs
Which I guess from production standpoint would get tricky because you would have to have a different case
And you know that that all gets expensive
Pretty quickly. I'm just making people download things
Yeah, when CD-ROMs were new I bought games on CD that came with two discs three discs
I think the the biggest one that I had was a game called Phantasmagoria
Which came on seven CDs and that was in the early days of CD-ROMs and they managed and I can still take those seven CDs
And if I have a computer running a copy of Windows that will run it
Um, I can I can still access and play that game and it won't be I won't be missing any features of it
Can I just point out that there's such a thing called ultra ultra HD blu-ray that's been out since
What 2017 and that can hold a hundred gigs?
So I don't accept that excuse. I don't there's always something else that can be developed that will hold more data
Well, that's true, but you would need the drive itself to be able to read that and that's something else
They can sell to the public, you know yet another bit of hardware
Yeah, but you know that you would have to have that with a brand new console
I think any any time you have a new console coming out when there's a PlayStation 6
I would I would hope that they would do that though manual. There is a
Yeah, there's a PlayStation 2027 try to keep up Alex. Come on. Oh, all right. Yeah, that's your kid. He can update you
Yes, you're right
No, Joe
Yes, let's open up the phone lines 802-321-4225 is our phone number eight zero two
We we could go three to one hack all night about software as a subscription and video games
You know the last time I played a video game. I don't even remember
I'm in the real video game. I like to get my I like the video games where it's not all about shooting, you know
Does anybody play those games? I would like again people might not think this is fun
I'd like a game where I got in a car and drove somewhere. I would like that game
You know kind of like you've been playing with Google Earth lately Kyle. Oh, yeah
I've been like that except fun
Marking all the underground bunkers and like how they're like being built over time and Russia and China. It's hilarious
I'm surprised you can find I like the video games where you have like a timeline and you can put down your video and
Then you can you can make edits and then you do transitions and stuff. I'd like Blade Runner. That was a good game
I like road rash. That was a good game. I liked load runner. I
Liked adventure, that's a text game
Shall we take a call? Do we have a call? No. Oh we do now. Okay to now. Yes. Let's take a call then
All right, and we have a call good evening you're on off the hook overtime
Hello. Yes, you're on the air or on the net. Anyway, oh cool
I just want to ask a question. I rented a car a couple months ago
And I like to play with the radio on it I hook up my phone and
But I when I return the car, I delete my phone information
but what I did know is was that some people don't and at what one day I noticed that there were actually
Phone numbers left in the in the fall in the cars memory in the phone's memory
With the person's name, oh boy, and it's like it was interesting. I mean, I'm just wondering like is that common?
It's very common. Yeah, there's there's sync settings with Bluetooth
Association so people associate their phone maybe in a rental or something and then
Maybe hit a button where it's syncing contacts and stuff like that that they don't necessarily think through
They forget to wipe it at the end and then yeah people come along and they can see all their contacts
They can even see where they went on GPS
It's you know
I think the rental company is
Obligated to wipe this information if the user doesn't because they're the ones giving it to somebody else afterwards, right?
Yeah, I mean, I you know, I'm just curious. I took pictures of him, but
The phone numbers are right there in on the screen with you know
Some of the prints, you know, some of them had like username was like, you know the phone's name or something
But there were other person's name on it
It was just weird. Uh-huh. No, it's you're very observant for for finding that go ahead Alex
You know add to that this crazy notion that when people get the contract when they're renting a car
Which also is essentially their their registration that they need to hand over to a cop in case they get pulled over and so
You know, they do this nutty thing with it
They fold it up and they put it in the glove compartment and then lo and behold they forget to take it out
When they return the car and then imagine this crazy idea that you know
The people cleaning the car don't clean the glove compartment
You know and you can find those very pieces of paper that may also have their name on it their address
payment history information as well as
Very often a photocopy of their license
Oh boy together with you know with so it in addition to those contacts
You may be able to tie those contacts to a person and have a copy of their ID if they weren't careful
I literally have seen this happen and I got a rental that Volkswagen gave me while I was having
My car repaired for something with the bumper. So I couldn't believe it when I saw that
This is a great law and order script, I think
Yeah, I really do because you know
I imagine that a crime was committed and the evidence is right there on the Bluetooth echo
Whatever you want to call it. That's that's still in the car system and somebody just has to track it down
You can never really be sure you want to think it is but
It's a good question. Is it? Yeah overwriting memory on solid-state like
Integrated circuits is
Not necessarily like as thorough as it might seem and to technically know or to verify a lot of that
It takes a little bit. I think more than just like the average click
I think what you would do is err on the side of caution and
If you really do not if you really want to know that there's no information on something
You kind of need to destroy it there. There might be apps out there that claim to do this
But I don't know if they're trusting
How about disconnecting the battery? I mean, I don't know how much
Modern cars, but there has been proof of concept at least in in in
Computer system memory like in in RAM like cold boot situations. That's old stuff though
like with phones and and
SD solid-state memory, it's it's not as clear-cut as just pulling pulling a battery
As much as we would like to think it's it's storing information before it
Loses power and that information still resides. There's many different types of memory within
The board that is a smartphone
That's my battery like the car battery like if you just want to make sure that everything for you
Oh, you're talking about the car that that could that could work that that might pull
Some of the information but you've got to disconnect it and reconnect it
I thought you meant the phone, but that's a good idea. Try that. Yeah, I thought vehicle. Yeah, totally you you could probably reset
What numbers are stored by disconnecting the battery that that's a great idea. Go ahead Rob. Oh, yeah
I think the only the only way you can be completely sure that you haven't left a piece of information in the car's computer is
Not to let it get there in the first place, you know
If you want to pair up your blue suits Bluetooth just for audio
Make sure you select the option on your phone when when the notification pops up, you know, don't share your contact list
Yeah, watch those menus if yeah
If you never tell the car's computer what you know, uncle Bepi and aunt Myrtle's phone number is then the car's computer will not know
Now I'm wondering if should I call these people and just let them like warn them for the
Sound I found when you do that people generally aren't as appreciative as you might expect
They look on you with great suspicion and think that you're up to something
But you know if you have a chance to what you're doing right now is is very good
You're warning a lot of people and probably preventing this from happening in the future
Yeah, I maybe tell the the car rental company. Hey, you might have a problem here. People are leaving their private data around
Yeah, they could be held responsible. Maybe
Okay
Okay, cool. All right. Wait, wait, wait calling from
The brunch cool. Well, thank you for listening. Oh, you're welcome. All right. Take care
a 0 2 3 2 1 4 2 2 5 is our phone that was a good call that was
Something that's definitely on my mind. I've noticed that in rental cars
It's happened to me. I've had that that feeling here. You're all of a sudden
Trying to do something and then like you're not quite sure what you're agreeing to
Uh-huh, and you have to either like give it a go and let it or refuse it and not have that feature work
It's just you know to do this. You have to answer a question on your phone and on the car
Saying do you want to transfer this information from your phone to the car?
Right there that that should fill you a trepidation
You know, do you really want your private info or your contacts to be nice convenient
But how hard is it to just use your phone, you know, or maybe not use your phone while you're driving great
Great argument for a travel phone or a phone that's prepaid or something that is just not associated with you
So that yeah, you can avail yourself of these amenities but not be diving into it with something
So tightly or closely associated. Yeah, go old school, you know, but you're fun the speaker mode dial a number talk
Why you drive that way? Yeah get the the earpiece the Bluetooth for your ear
Yeah, you hear our cars are bringing or at least Volkswagens bringing buttons back
Because touchscreens who knew they can be hazardous while you're driving to look at a screen and select
Options whereas buttons you can feel and just press while you're looking straight ahead
Imagine we're learning so much
Nobody knew that before so so now some cars are are bringing buttons back
I didn't know buttons were gone because I tend to drive cars that have buttons in them and knobs to sometimes I like knobs
You know
Not speaking knobs can be great. But the last time we rented a car
We rented a minivan in the Midwest and the gear shift was a knob and I'd never seen that before
But it was it was a knob on the dashboard right next to the volume for the radio
so you could if you were just feeling your way and you wanted to turn the radio up and down you could have accidentally shifted
Yourself into reverse or something. It seemed like an accident
Wow, so the the shifting was actually a knob
interesting I
Didn't know they did that. It was a minivan from I think last year
It was a pretty new ish model minivan. It was a tank
Uh-huh. It was seriously a tank
it's weird how every every car manufacturer seems to have its own ideas as to where to put certain buttons and features and knobs and
whatever else
And there's you know, there are very few standards like the steering wheel generally in the same place same shape
Okay, we agree on that for now
but windshield wiper good luck could be on the right could be on the left could be a button could be a knob could be a
Dial could be a selection on
You know on the screen somewhere even if you ever
Even if you pick a favorite model, you know, they might move it around from year to year. Mm-hmm
It's true. So yeah buttons might be coming back. That's that's good news
Any calls I like that?
No, not yet. Maybe give the number out but eight zero two three two one four two two five less screens in
things moving at a high velocity
No call, yeah, we've run out of things to say
Still about this. I have something interesting we can do if you guys are into ribs. I got one of these
Fraudulent purchase orders from
geek squad today and
I could call the fraudulent 800 number associated with it if if we're interested
See how the scam works. Yeah, go ahead. All right. Hold on. I'm sorry
Hopefully I haven't called this because they often blacklist your number, okay, so let's see if we can
Okay
I
Can hear that yes
Something Alex
Let's try that one more time
Gonna hear the DTMS here. Yes, we do. Here's the team after trying not to decode them
I think rebel already has to go to them
You found another one, how'd you do that? Yeah. All right. Well, I guess that's not gonna work though. Yeah
And I saved it, you know, because I thought it would be fun to dial
This is why we test things before the show
Well, I didn't want to test it because it it could have realized that I wasn't a legitimate victim and then blacklisted my number
So and yet it did that anyway
Yeah, probably. Yeah, we're gonna give it one more minute 802 3 2 1 4 2 2 5 if anyone out there
Would like to go to be only get one call tonight
Wow, we have we have a fair amount of listeners. So I
Don't understand that and we are on YouTube, right? We've we've
Verified that good good. Yeah people are people are watching we sound good on YouTube. You know, it is if we're preempted that
sometimes people forget that we're on I
Just said we have we have a usual number of listeners so maybe it's just nothing to talk about I
Disagree what we're certainly proving that here
I'm
Trying to find more
I'll just while we're waiting remind people again that the
2600 meetings are happening all over the world this Friday
You can go to 2600 comm slash meetings to find one near you or start one near you
our local one is at the
The building on 53rd and Lexington in their food court, which is called the hue
This used to be the Citigroup building now, it's I think called something else, but it's not called the Citigroup building anymore
I think they stopped calling it that at some point. I might be I might be wrong about that
But but the food court itself has a name and that name is Hugh
Hugh okay. Yes. How do you spell Hugh?
H U G H. It's actually the hue so the definite article you might say
Okay, well we do have a call so I'm going to say
Hello to the person on the air. Good evening. Oh, hi. Am I on you are on go ahead
All right. Well, I
Thought the team that you had on the radio part of the show was very interesting and I'm going to define it as
Technology
substituting and enforcing
The laws of the state or making even you lost that is it is enforcing on behalf of the state
How do you like that?
Sounds good
Well, I'm gonna tell you a personal experience. I've had are you familiar with we pay which is part of Chase Bank?
Mm-hmm
Do you use it have you ever used it I
Don't I don't think I've used it I know I know about it. Okay. Well, I
Entertain this offer. I'm a client of Chase for a long time
I have a business account and they offered me the we paint
Well, it's not the we pay machine, but it turned out to be connected to we pay
With an enticement of $400 after a certain amount of transactions were processed
And I decided to go for it. I had already had another one another similar offer
in years before we chase
Then, you know with no problems and
To make the story short I
at the fourth transaction
my account was terminated and I was told that I was a high risk of chargebacks and
Disputes without any evidence of this 20 years of relationship with the bank not a bounce check. No nothing
the transactions failed smoothly and
Suddenly I ran a fool of some artificial intelligence
algorithm that decided that I
Am NOT a worthy client and this happened a month ago. They seized the money for my transaction
Once I went online I didn't do my due diligence before because I
Had this kind of thing happened before we've chased and everything was fine
And I found thousands of complaints. Apparently this we pay is a really bad actor and
I even contacted
class action
Law firm in California that is looking into the opportunity
To basically sue the hell out of them
But meanwhile, I'm still in limbo my money is not gonna be
Your message they say they were holding up for a minimum of 30 days now
120 days I didn't get as much as a phone call. They didn't talk to the counterpart
It was perfectly happy with the way the transactions that be processed and here I am talking to you about it
Wow, that's that's not they actually have money of yours
Yes
It doesn't seem legal that they can just hold it like that and you say it's been 120 days
No, they are they say that they're gonna hold it for first. They say the minimum 30 days
And in a later message
Denying my appeal I had to I had to go through all kinds of hoops
I'm thinking of even just going in as sorry in the latest message. They say it was going to be a minimum of 120 days
So I'm even thinking of starting with small claims here before the class action happens if it happens
because you know my my point of contention is that I walked into a branch a local branch in New York City in Manhattan and
I responded to this offer that have been
Made to me and
So, I think you know, even the small claims
In your county may have something to say about this and that's when I plan to start
But just to say, you know, this is not Big Brother. This is big
cyborg
And it's it's just unbelievable, you know, you can be a good citizen
Dotting all the T's right, you know without the eyes and you cross the T's and
Suddenly you find yourself out in the cold for apparently no reason there are a number of things you can do and and bad
publicity is what they fear the most so
Going to a local elected official of your choice and getting them on your side
that's one way to go going to a TV station that has a news program where they, you know point the finger at
Corrupt businesses and things like that
Get something like that
that will respond quickly, but
There are a number of options thing is though a lot of people will have similar stories
I you said there are thousands of complaints. So
Yes, definitely. This will resonate if you if you go on Google and you you Google, you know, we pay
Class action suit. Mm-hmm. You'll find lots of you know, better Business Bureau sites with
Literally thousands of complaints
About this company acting in a similar manner Wow
Well, yeah, don't be quiet about this
When I plan to get some blood for real and I really hope that this firm is gonna go for
the class action suit because that that's the only thing that might
Correct their behavior, you know, it's when they start losing millions of dollars
Then they say oh
Well, what what do you think their motivation in behaving this way is or is something that they're not in control of
Well, you know, it's hard to make theories but I have of course
Apparently chases bought this company for 400 million dollars
a few years back
and
I wonder you know, as I say, there are plenty of complaints. I am NOT the first one
So, I really don't know what their motivation is but it may be I had I
Had read a check out on my hotmail account
I didn't read the full article because often, you know, the things that appear are not reliable
But I had seen a few times that chase was getting out of retail banking and perhaps this is a way
Sneaky way, they're they're doing this, you know, they're pissing customers off
That's one way to get out of retail banking money with Wow. Yeah, they think oh, we're not making enough money with this guy
you know, he always gets our
$400 offer and we never get any fees from him and you know, he just keeps the minimum
Inside the account so you're using their system to your advantage and they resent that
Yes, that's exactly. Yeah, that's what I think may be going on
But of course, I have no proof of that other than you know, finding myself having the cold
for apparently no reason
Definitely interesting story Skype folks. Do you have any any input on this?
I'm looking at some of the reviews online right now and a lot of people are
Saying this is happening to them
That payments are being held
And
what's interesting is
Someone from we pay went through on the Better Business Bureau site and is responding to every complaint saying we're so sorry to hear you
That you feel that way
And
Meanwhile, they're saying we're so sorry that we cannot reinstate your account
You know that you're gonna have to find different solutions, which of course is crap
Well, I mean the important thing is getting your money back and I don't think you want to work with them anymore
Anyway, and you know in in my in my demand for you know, I added it up
It's the 450 plus the cost of the machine plus
The the offer that they I said, you know, I want twelve hundred and one dollars and I also want you to
erase and make inaccessible any
Information that would be damaging to my capability to my reputation to my credit rating to make it ability to conduct business
And that's what I want in court more than anything else because it's not just the money
You know you end up in obscured databases that companies that process credit cards exchange and
You're suddenly a criminal
Well, it's just blacklisted never give you you know, the capability of processing payments again, right?
No, you're blacklisted in their database like like a landlord database if you get in
Alex any legal advice you can you can offer can they just take them to small claims court? Do they have to answer?
Well, yeah, you could I mean you could sue in small claims court, there's there's any number of
legal remedies available here, I think
You know small claims court has a
Damages limit though, you know, so I think if it's over five thousand it depends on the county, right?
I think but I think it might be a five or ten thousand dollar limit to go into
small claims court, but this does seem like the type of thing where
You know a class action would be
The mechanism that could that could go forward because if you know, it's one thing if you wrong one person
It's just not worth, you know pursuing for you know, $100 or $200 or something like that
But if you wrong a massive amount of people for a small amount of money, that's that's the mechanism that a class action is
seeking to
well, that's the
legal situation
For which the class action is an appropriate mechanism. So Alex, would you be interested in taking on something like this?
Probably not I think
Alex is in demand. He's booked
I don't really do class action
law, you know and and
to be honest on
most of these
We would be my firm is a pretty big firm. We'd probably be defending class action rather than
So you might see him in court after all
If the parent company could be a client so I don't want to make any
Statements about you know, the merits of it or not. I'll just talk about the legal remedy itself
You know after my DCSS loss
I saw my lawyer in a future case on the side that I was not on and I said, oh my god
How could you do that? But that's you know lawyers do that. They wind up on different sides sometimes. Oh, yeah
Count on it. Yeah, that's
Long and short of it
Yeah, you're you had a great lawyer though for the DCSS case you retire. You must have been talking about Marty Garbus
I didn't want to drop names. But yes, yes, you know, that's that's that's the nature of the game that
Legal people wind up defending other people
But
there definitely is a case and I think
Connecting with other people is definitely a good a good step. But also the advice we offered as far as contacting media apart from us
and
Politicians politicians would be very interested the right politician could definitely open some doors here
Again the company doesn't want not want bad publicity and if you can bring that to them, they'll give you whatever you're asking for
Okay, good advice I'll keep you posted in future shows. Yes, please do
All right, thank you so much, thank you up the good work take care all the best
You know that reminds me
My judge was in the news trending on Twitter, you know the judge Kaplan
It's just kind of weird because you know, I see my judge from the DCSS case in 2000 trending on Twitter
I'm like, I feel this sense of pride. Hey, that's my judge
Why do I feel a sense of pride for the guy who ruled against me?
But you know, I just I felt like you know
some sort of
Representation there. Yeah, save that for when he's not ruling. Well, it was my judge. Okay when your judge is twitting
Trending on Twitter. You'll understand but Lee at Lewis Kaplan ruled against Trump this week for something
I don't know. There's so many rules against Trump in one week. I don't know which one this was but
The case that he's presiding over
He you know, he's he also has the FTX case with SPF. So
It's a big one
All right
My call to the night this it's it's nine o'clock. I
Think we can take one more call if there's a call I say we take then I say you get the call
You work if we don't work for this Alex, go ahead. Yeah, I'll try
But you know, we need people to call. I know there's burning questions on people's minds
Might want to talk about AI digital footprints all kinds of issues and things but
If they don't call
They won't have their questions answered
Phone lines are still open. No calls yet. Keep going Alex
You know to three to five for the phone number, right for God's sake
Phones ringing. So, you know, you blew it anyway
It's you know 802 now you got me saying over 802 3 2 1 4 2 2 5
It doesn't matter though. It's gonna be busy now. Good evening. You're on off the go time. Go ahead
Good evening. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes, we hear you fine. Where are you going from?
Calling for Kansas. Okay, you're the Kansas guy
Yeah. Yeah, I
Didn't want to be rude and call on two subsequent weeks
But since you were asking for calls something
If only everybody
Followed the same
Decorum that you do and and didn't call every week or every other call whatever sometimes, you know
People are a bit intense truth. Truth be told. We don't have a rule. We don't ever say we appreciate the consideration
True, but it's a consideration. Yes, you know, the precedent should be set. So, um, I just wanted to share with you guys
All the I guess this is the fatigue that comes from Twitter all the conversations around that. Oh, yeah
We're hackers. I feel like we should drive away from that space, right?
Like I think you should put the call out or maybe it just hackers in general, right? Like let's take back IRC
Let's let's go to the 2600 comm website. Let's find other places and not reward
You know sort of this circus and this media and this frenzy
it's it's really just something to talk about and just sort of feeds into all of that craziness and
That was you know, sort of something that we've been talking about a lot is again
just minimize the craziness minimize all the nonsense in the world and
The most powerful thing we can do is our action. And so if we move away from those platforms
again, whether it's because we you know have a a
I
Don't know whatever it whatever the nature of our disagreement is and we'll we'll frame it under the umbrella of Twitter
But if we move away from those things and find alternate solutions
That's really the hacker spirit and the mentality of things like when something isn't working
Let's take it back and put the call out to our friends and our colleagues and things and drive them to other platform
Yeah, that makes sense. I agree with that. But somebody winds up running it and whenever that happens
Eventually they go down the wrong path and piss people off and then you have the same thing happening all over again
You have you know who decides what the next thing will be, you know
And and why do they get to decide that is it because of who they are where they are what they work for?
they're gonna be people who disagree with that then you have five different things people can go to and
It's weird. You can't predict what's going to be it does fragments, right?
And things like that it makes it harder to hear the signal of the noise
But even right now with his overrun as again Twitter is but just so much nonsense
And you can't really follow the things that you're interested in and it's broken up the sort of the communities and things like that
And I guess we'll open the door if you don't mind for a moment. What do you guys think about Mastodon?
I mean, there are some things out there. It's it's the idea of decentralized
No, I can sort of take over and claim ownership of it
Have you guys I was gonna I was gonna I was gonna ask about that Mastodon if you had an opinion about that because
That is what many people have gravitated towards
Decentralized networked. I think it's gotten better in the last few months because the things that I post show up faster in different places
but I'm not seeing a
Lot of people embracing it like as many as I would hope for I'd like to see more certainly not mainstream, right?
I think a lot of a lot of the early adopters, right?
Cuz there's always the early adopters to the platform
They're going to be the ones that sort of get a get it in the get it in people's minds, right?
You've got a got a sort of break through that barrier and again, you know you guys on the radio
With your presence in the hacker community
I think you really could sort of encourage people or again just open up the discourse
I'm certainly not lobbying for one thing over the other but
You guys have a the ability to reach a lot of people and so again
let's drive people to solutions that aren't necessarily where we give up all of our
The control of our data to or we give up all of our posts and we don't own them
Let's find a better solution
Consider I I would say I mean I'm with you on this
I think it's it's a good idea
But consider there's been the outcry and the options and we did early on discuss
Alternatives and you know put out there that there are places people are
Migrating to
But consider that there's been this much activity
Moving away and discuss and moving towards alternatives without any emphasis
we've merely just discussed what people are doing what options are there is no campaign and
As he explained having the wisdom of seen stuff like this happen in different organizations before
Yeah, I mean it isn't a campaign and there are there are pitfalls in in trying to coalesce around something like that
but
Consider what were people to
Put emphasis on that
It's certainly an option in the future and were they to do that
I think that yeah, even if it was a temporary
Campaign, I think it could certainly have an impact
I think I think the the most important thing here is being able to network because
When when you isolate that's when things get weaker IRC is a perfect example of this back when it was F net
And and down that and and and big networks like that
Almost everybody was on them. You could reach all these different people, but then we started having fragmentation
Even within the 2600 IRC network people in a particular
Part of the country would say okay now we're gonna run our own IRC network
But you couldn't reach it on the main network
you had to go to their server to be on their IRC network and of course are only about eight people on there and
we've seen the same thing happen with instant messaging and now even with with email and
Various other ways of communicating. I like what Mastodon does as far as networking different
servers and and and different parts of the world together
But it's it's it's not centralized and I think that is, you know, something like that is the solution
but it has to be easy to use and
We might be able to figure it out. But if if you know
I
Hate to keep bringing grandparents into this
But if your grandparents can't figure out how to use it
It's probably too difficult for the average person who's not technically inclined and you know
If you want something truly usable for communications, you do need to have it be somewhat easy to use or intuitive
Sure, I guess the only the only counterpoint that I might add to that though is
Do we how much value do we get because Twitter is as accessible as it is. I mean
Outside of the tech community I could see we could make the argument for people that are you know skilled professionals sharing information
The the challenge though is is there's just so much of social media. That's really just wasted hard drive space
I mean, I remember on a show in the past you guys were talking about like you really wanted to have
2600 on Instagram for instance, right?
I guess I would I would sort of make a little bit of a judgmental call that not every picture on
Instagram has merit right, you know
there there's a lot of sort of wasted bandwidth for those things and if
If there were a bit more of a difficult barrier to entry is there the possibility of reducing the noise, right?
And so that's that's a debatable thing
Well, the barrier judgment of other people the barrier to our entry is just our name. They don't like our name and
I'm sorry, but we can't yield on our name 2600
They say you can't use all numbers, but there are accounts that use all numbers
So that's that's a load of crap. So we're not on Instagram because of that
Yeah, yeah, we've run into that many many times. I
We can't forget the noise of ads, too
I mean just the the advantage of finding a way to move away from that to get away from the commercial side of this
form of spreading information in
Ads that would be a huge benefit, but the will has to be there and the the overarching structure has to facilitate it
We have to I'm sorry Rob, yeah
Raising your hand it's off-camera, so I don't see it. Sorry. He's right
It's on camera for it's on camera for me, but I guess it's off the edge of the screen. You have me squashed
but anyway, um the
Yeah to go back to what you were asking about Mastodon like I personally love Mastodon so much
it's become my social media daily driver and
I know so many of the people who I know personally and maybe this just speaks to my personal circles, but
so many of the people I know who have
lessened or stopped using Twitter and
Moved to Mastodon are people in the hacker community on the hacker community seems to be seems to really be strongly embracing
Mastodon in in particular
but also in general the federated social media the the decentralized stuff like Mastodon the other activity pub stuff because
There it's like how the internet itself works where it routes around damage
no one entity controls it and everyone just
collaboratively keeps it going and
Yeah, nobody nobody can buy Mastodon in the way that someone bought Twitter
But and don't know all sorts of directions, but Rob can I ask you this those people that
You don't see eye-to-eye with those people that you know, you disagree with on social issues political issues things like that
Are they on Mastodon?
Can um, I'm sure I'm sure they
I'm sure they are and I could find them if they wanted if I wanted or if they could find me if I if they
wanted
but
We're being honest, yeah, probably a different system and that's just segregation then you're not, you know
I I don't like idiots, but I recognize that idiots are a big part of the of the world
and sometimes you want to engage if somebody says something particularly egregious you either want to bring it to the attention of
Others or you you want to shoot them down in one way or another and if you take that away and you're only with people
That you get along with well, eventually you're gonna stop getting along with them, too
But you're missing out on the potential for actual dialogue and and disruption
I
Will say there have been occasions on Mastodon where I have had
discussions with people who've responded to something I said or I responded to something they said and
There was a disagreement. There was a discussion, but that was it. It was a discussion
It wasn't like a flame war. It wasn't, you know calling people names and you know saying terrible things about them
it was a discussion because I think the general vibe on Mastodon is
One of sort of
more reasonable human interaction than I think Twitter has grown into and
Yeah, I'm digging it and it feels like the volume got turned back down
It really sort of has reset a lot of things. There's a lot better engagement on the platform. And I also yes, I
I put my money where my mouth is I abandoned Twitter
I deleted my account went over to Mastodon as well to really sort of you know
Pitch in and really show that I was going to support an alternate choice in the in the space
No, that's that that's great. And if if the volume is turned down and the discussions are more intelligent, that's that's amazing, too
I'm just wary of that happening only within a certain
perspective of people and if you know, it's only people that are fairly liberal that are
Treating each other with respect and people who are conservative just aren't around anymore. I don't think that's the solution
I'd like it to be everybody treating each other with more respect and disagreeing as much as ever but doing it in a more
Civilized way, so hopefully we can achieve that
this also speaks to
I'm very sorry
No, this really speaks to just how the place of social media in all our lives has changed over the years since Twitter has been
the big one because
Before that like social media you would find interest groups about things you were interested in you would find sort of, you know
forums around a single subject or things like that and when Twitter became the thing everyone had or
Facebook's another one that became the thing everyone had then you had to deal with everyone and
This this this whole situation has made me question sort of the place of social media in my own life and like do I want
to react what do I want to
Interact with this firehose of everybody including the assholes or do I want to go back to a more comfortable place of like hey
Here's people who are interested in what I have to say. I can follow people who are interested in who I find interesting
It's yeah scope of community like how big and what kind of control and
Modulation you have over that control
Well, and I would say to as the manual to your point about the barriers to entry and getting
Getting additional voices in the space the technology
I mean, I still feel it's early and you pointed out that we haven't really been talking about it extensively
So it's gonna mature. It'll become easier. And so eventually there's gonna you know
There's gonna be a segment of Twitter people that will be become, you know
Exhausted from the circus and and move as well. I mean, I think like that
That's all the technologies that I guess that have legs right that have any sort of longevity in them
they'll continue maturing they'll become easier to use and
Eventually, will we be having this discussion a discussion again that this is the new Twitter 2.0
Debacle where everything the volumes too loud and we can't hear each other
It's possible because everything humans do tends to be circular, but that's the discussion for another time
All right, it's ongoing for sure and living through history, but thanks for the thoughts. I don't want to take too much time
I know it's late. So again, thank you everybody for the show and take care and have a good evening
Thank you for calling
Take care
Kansas you got to have strength to
Mm-hmm to survive in Kansas and you know
Be a freedom loving person
well, actually, you know, I Kansas has done some good things recently with certain certain votes, but there's also
While the whole country is going through
Crap right now. I just I feel like a conversation. It's it's so familiar. It's like, you know, like a
part of that
community that Rob was talking about creating and and I feel like we're just
picking up where we left off from week to week and trying to push some of these ideas forward to get to a place where
People do have comfort they have control and they're empowered
Over and over again by these tools instead of the opposite I
Think that's pretty much gonna do it for us tonight
We're gonna try to connect to Pornhub on you on Utah's IPs, right?
we have to figure out how to defeat their systems and and
Strike a blow for freedom any closing thoughts from people out there
Go to the 2600 meetings, that's right every
Every first Friday of the month and that's coming up this this Friday all around the world
Twenty six hundred comm slash meetings to see if there's one near you and to start your own. Who's the first?
Celebrity star that's gonna show up on Mastodon. Is that what it's gonna take like
Is she on Mastodon is is Madonna? I don't know you tell me
Why should I care who's a star, you know, like
You know in terms of celebrities in terms of like mainstream celebrities not just people dorks love yeah
but like
Went during during the whole debacle last autumn with with Twitter and a lot of people
Emigrated to Mastodon a lot of sort of big-name accounts did check it out
I know Kathy Griffin the comedian is on Mastodon now, you know, Neil Gaiman is on Mastodon
Are they still participating? Did they just get an account then and forget about it?
That's a that's a good question
The only reason the only reason I bring that up really is because the commercial social media sites
They often do this when there's a big buzz when they're doing a publicity blitz
They try to get the right, you know sports or some some personality to attract
Masses and they do it for commercial gain and and so forth and getting that critical mass of people there
Do you need that does it have to be?
Something so
Transactional maybe there is a
Willingness it can be from hackers as we're stating but all kinds of communities could be attracted to this for really altruistic reasons
There are good reasons. Yeah to move away from commercials
I think Rob if you can tell when the last time Kathy Griffin tweeted on oh wait
I can't use that word on there. Can I it's
Mastered. Oh wait, they can't even
That's an unfortunate
Kathy Griffin last tooted on March 31st tooted is I'm not accepting that
Or you could say posted
But yeah, Kathy Griffin. She she put a thing about her latest show on there and she responded to something someone else said
It's being used we have a massive John account for the radio show when's the last time we posted
We posted today. Um, we we post every week when we're on the air when we're on off the hook overtime
I
Interacted with somebody via that
somebody was trying to decide what to listen to because apparently over the overtime is on at the same time as another program and
You know, they chose us and I thank them for this writer strike now and that affects a lot of other programs
Not us, but yeah, we are on at the moment
We are on hacker radio show on mess it on dot social if you use mess it on and you would like to follow us
Okay, we should be the first first show to follow there
When you join, yeah, I guess off the hook was taken but fine
right to us OTH at
2600 calm
we will be back next week on off the hook at 7 o'clock on BAI and
8 o'clock on overtime right here on YouTube
Again, OTH at 2600 comm meetings this Friday
stay awake stay with it and
Fight back against all the crap that's out there because there's an awful lot of it