It is almost 7 p.m. Stay tuned for Off The Hook coming up. Once again this is
WBAI New York 99.5 FM and WBAI.org online. Stay tuned.
Well hello there. It's WBAI New York and it's 7 o'clock. Time once again for
another edition of Off The Hook.
And a very good evening to everybody. The program is Off The Hook. Emmanuel Goldstein
here with you on this Wednesday evening. Joined tonight by Kyle. Yeah. We have Rob
T. Firefly. Good evening. We have Gila. Good evening. And we have Alex. Hello, hello. All
right. Well hope you're all having a nice evening tonight because it's gonna get a
little dark. We have some breaking news that we just found out about not too
long ago concerning our friend Virgil Griffith who has been held in in prison
for lo these many months and in fact has been going through hell since 2019.
Briefly this is the case that we've talked about a number of times on this
show. Not nearly enough because when when you're dealing with legal cases you have
to kind of temper your remarks. You don't want to influence things. You don't want
things to you know you come back and hurt the people that that you care about
that you're trying to help. But really it's it's gotten to the point of being a
Kafka novel. It really has. The case briefly is that Virgil went to North
Korea in defiance of the Trump ban. He's an American citizen. Trump said American
citizens now no longer allowed to go to North Korea. I think in 2017 he decreed
this. Never before been the case. I went to North Korea. Many friends I know have
gone to North Korea. Why? Because we can't go to Mars. That's why. It's a different
planet. It's it's it's like going to a place where where gravity doesn't work.
It's it's the most bizarre unusual crazy place and Virgil is one of the most
curious people that I've ever had the pleasure of meeting and both meanings to
the word curious. He is a curious person in that he's odd and eccentric and and
and kind of a misfit but he's also somebody who has a very keen sense of
curiosity as many of us in the hacker world do. And of course he couldn't
resist going and it was easy to go. You know you didn't have to tell the State
Department that you were going to North Korea especially when you live in
Singapore which he did. But he decided to ask anyway and was surprised when they
said no you can't go. And and then he made the mistake and he knows this was
a mistake. It was a big mistake. He went anyway. But we all thought we all thought
that the worst that could happen was he would be fined or he would maybe lose
his passport. That's the worst-case scenario. Instead the US government has
come down on him like he is an enemy of the state. Like he is somebody who is Kim
Jong-un's best friend. Believe me. Virgil is not somebody who sides with a
dictatorial regime or anything remotely undemocratic or anti-human rights. I mean
it's just it's it's the height of absurdity. Anyway so he has he had been
held in in federal prison was finally released to the care of his parents
right in time for the whole COVID outbreak to to start happening. And he
wasn't allowed to to use the Internet and get this he wasn't allowed to do
anything involving cryptocurrency because the feds are so afraid of
cryptocurrency they think I don't know what they think. It's possible here but
they they thought that Virgil plus cryptocurrency could equal complete
mayhem. So part of the conditions of him staying out of prison was that he has to
stay away from from cryptocurrency. Okay great. No problem. Until his lawyers told
him we need you to pay us. Please get the money from your crypto account. And that
right there following his lawyers advice doing what they told him to do which
they admitted in court is what is what happened. They said it was okay. They said
it wouldn't be a problem wouldn't be a violation of any court order. And well
the federal government thought differently and threw him into prison
where he's been since since this summer for something that was not even his
fault. He was simply doing what his lawyers told him to do. Now okay so then
you fast forward to September when his trial was supposed to begin. That's when
you get your day in court. That's when you get to stand up and say okay your
honor this is this is what I did and why and this is what was misunderstood. But
here's the thing and I think a lot of people might not understand this. When
you are accused of the most heinous of crimes i.e. siding with a horrible regime
like North Korea and working against your your own red white and blue country
people start to believe that. And when people start to believe that you start
to worry about what the jury will be like. Because it's very easy you know
the federal government has a very impressive record of convictions. Alex
can can correct me I'm sure but I think it's well over 90 percent. And when you're
faced with that we've seen this with with Kevin Mitnick. We've seen this with
Bernie. We've seen this with Fiber. We've seen this with hundreds and hundreds of
people over the years that have been faced against this incredible
adversary known as the the federal justice system. You can't win. You can try
you can try to have your day in court but here's the thing if you have that
day in court and it doesn't work which it's very likely not to you wind up
going to prison for much much longer than you would if you simply take a deal
and plead guilty. And that's why he pled guilty in September. I mean that's that's
my impression. That's not him saying this or anything like that. He's been
nothing but remorseful and contrite. But I understand why somebody would feel
compelled to. It does not mean that he is the person that they said he was. So
anyway that is what happened. That's the last thing that happened actually. He
pled guilty and was awaiting sentencing. And that sentencing was supposed to take
place in January. And then it was postponed by his legal team. They
postponed it until February. You know the whole thing is is crazy because here he
is sitting in prison for months waiting to find out how long he has to sit in
prison for. For a crime which honestly is the most absurd ridiculous accusation
that I've I've heard in many many a year. And I've heard a lot of crazy
accusations. Today today a actually a memo was written a couple days ago. Today
it was it was granted by the court. I'm gonna read what it says. It's addressed
to the judge. We and it's from Virgil's legal team. We write respectfully to
request that the sentencing hearing in the above matter be adjourned from
February 2nd to April 7th or April 12 13th or 14th of 2022. I mean I guess
those are the days they're free. We further request that the court order
that the deadline for the defense's sentencing submission similarly be
modified from January 18th to March 4th and the deadline for the government's
sentencing submission be modified from January 25th to March 18th. Without the
additional time despite our diligent efforts we will not be ready for his
sentencing due to circumstances beyond our and our clients control. We have
conferred with the government who does not oppose this continuance request and
is amenable to the proposed deadlines. This is our second request for an
adjournment. We make this request and listen carefully to this. We make this
request because since mid-December we have been unable to visit with our
client at the MDC due to COVID-19 despite repeated efforts to confer with
him and we are uncertain when that will change so that we can work with him to
prepare for his sentencing. Before Christmas Mr. Griffith contracted
COVID-19 and was subsequently held in isolation for approximately 10 days.
Counsel was unable to have any contact with him during that time. We were not
allowed to visit or schedule video or telephone calls. Despite Mr. Griffith
having since been released from isolation there have not been any in-person
attorney visits permitted at the MDC due to the COVID-19 outbreak at the facility.
In addition we have repeatedly tried to schedule calls with him despite the
facility not permitting call or video conferences without explanation. It was
not until this Tuesday January 12th that we were able to have a telephone call
with him. Prosecutors helped us secure this call for which we are greatly
appreciative. It is worth noting that the MDC's lockdown has also resulted in
significantly reduced food rations, extremely limited opportunities to
shower, lack of any time outside and delayed access to necessary prescription
medications for Mr. Griffith imposing significant hardships on him. We do not
make this request lightly and wish it was not necessary. All told we have not
been able to visit with our client in person since December 15th 2021 and have
not been able to see him via video since that same day.
Accordingly Mr. Griffith respectfully requests the court to grant this request
for adjournment of sentencing and the proposed briefing schedule. As always the
undersigned are available to answer any questions the court may have. That was
granted today as if it was some kind of a favor to Virgil to delay sentencing
another few months and the bitter irony of this is that because they are
unable to meet with him he has to spend more time in prison waiting to find out
what happens to him because they won't let his legal team even speak to him.
This is America this is what's happening right here in this country I never
thought this kind of a thing would be possible but it's insane how how long
does this go on for how how hard are they going to make it for him to simply
survive as a human being they gave him COVID they cut him off from the world
they they put him through the equivalent of torture and he's not even at the
point of finding out how does this end for going to a country that Trump said
you're not allowed to go to and for answering questions about cryptocurrency
for talking about technology like we all do for saying things that all of us are
saying all of us are reading about on the Internet you know I want to share
with you a story that also came out in the last couple of days about North
Korea do you know North Korea stole nearly 400 million dollars in
cryptocurrency in 2021 particularly aetherium do you think they needed
Virgil to do that he was basically figuring out what they were up to what
they were doing how this would work and probably there would have been article
in in many journals about this and guess what I'll bet it would have stopped I'll
bet it would have been fixed there are massive holes that would have allowed
access to all this money in violation of sanctions and the person basically
speaking out openly about this is defined as the problem it's insane and I
also want to read a little bit of another story completely unrelated to
this having to do with Elizabeth Holmes you might know that name the Silicon
Valley startup founder she was convicted of fraud this month she was
found guilty on three counts of wire fraud one count of conspiracy to commit
wire fraud facing maximum sentence of 20 years in prison for each count she lied
to investors about her company's abilities so she could raise money for
that company and her trial was last September found guilty this month you
know what she's gonna be sentenced September September of this year nine
months nine months from from when she was convicted do you think she's in
prison no she's enjoying life on the outside someone who did something far
worse than what Virgil is accused well I guess the way they're accusing him
they're trying to make him into some some superhero villain but I maintain
that somebody who lies which Virgil has never done and steals which Virgil has
never done is a far worse person do I think everybody should go to prison who
commits a crime no but this seeing a wealthy Silicon Valley founder being
found guilty of a crime is basically given every opportunity to live their
lives whereas Virgil deemed an enemy of the state is literally being tortured
in a federal facility right here in New York given kovat kept away from any
human contact having food rations cut for some reason not being allowed access
to medication not being allowed access to attorneys and we're supposed to say
thank you for allowing him to sit there for another three months before being
sentenced you know there are so many words I want to use right now but
because we're on the radio I can't but this this is just too much this is the
breaking point we've talked about the injustice of this case for a number of
years now but we've held back I think that time is over I think it's time even
those of us who think that what he did was was a threat I mean we all believe
it was wrong and he's the first to say that but it was a mistake if you think
there are ulterior motives behind it I think even those people would start
saying okay you know what enough enough in the Kevin Mitnick case we always had
to battle the people who said but he broke the law yeah he did he broke the
law how much is too much how much prison time do you give somebody who broke the
law at what point do you say we're human beings this is wrong this is the crime
how we treat this person I think we got there I think we're at that stage you
know it occurs to me that his alleged crimes produced no victims whereas in
the Holmes case there were probably a lot more people that were victims of
course in fact in this case I would argue he is the real victim here he's
the only victim everything else would never say that I wouldn't say that but
he is being not entitled to speedy trial or access to well he pleaded guilty so
he doesn't get a trial he doesn't get that I'm sorry but and he understands
that he understands that sentencing process and he feels terrible about what
he did he knows it was a mistake but it was a mistake it wasn't a plot it wasn't
something that as you said there were no victims he wasn't plotting to hurt
somebody in the Elizabeth Holmes case yeah you know what she was plotting to
hurt somebody because she stole she lied and was found guilty for it and should
you know make it make it right I agree with that but you know depending on how
you treat people in situations like this it says a lot about you and it also
determines the path they're going to take when I got into trouble decades ago
you know I was basically in a situation where according to the FBI who by the
way never trust what they say never trust what they say they they told
Virgil you know what this is not a big deal we're not gonna do anything about
you going to North Korea without permission and it was a complete lie in
my case they said yeah you know we can send you to prison for over 50 years for
what you did and you know I stood before a judge and explained what it was
exactly that I had done to compromise computer systems and I explained to the
company what they could do to fix things I explained to the FBI I was treated
fairly I was treated very fairly I had to pay a small fine I don't think I even
paid a fine actually I think it was just for the computer time I had to pay a few
hundred bucks and was on some kind of supervised release for a number of
months which was expunged and everything I've done since then has been a result
of being treated fairly it could have gone in a different way and today it
probably would have gone in a different way and I would be a different person I
would not have any of the opportunities that I've had I would not have had any
successes that I've had and who wins who wins when you do that to people Alex I
know I know this something you want to say as well and as a lawyer you must
recognize my frustration with the way the legal system works sometimes but you
have a much keener understanding of why it works that way but I know that you
feel the same way as far as just the injustice of this the the the way
Virgil has been treated throughout but this especially you know being pushed
back you know because there just isn't time for you it's it's it's just awful
well the whole situation is really absolutely horrendous and you know I
want to reiterate something I've said in the on the show before which is that
you know my hands are tied to a certain extent in terms of what I can say
because I am and my firm is assisting in some capacity with respect to the
defense and in particular with the forthcoming sentencing that will be
happening now on April 12th will be the sentencing date for Virgil but I will
also say this that we were only engaged to assist Virgil after he was remanded
back to prison for violation of the bail condition and accessing his
cryptocurrency account so that what happened before we got involved that
happened actually right before I had joined my current law firm so in any
event one thing I should clarify to Emmanuel's that Virgil's offense is
being treated very very seriously because it's not really about having
traveled to North Korea what the government had alleged here and and
Virgil had pleaded guilty to this is essentially a violation of the
International Emergency Economic Powers Act which is the sanctions that are
imposed on North Korea now coincidentally that was the same statute
that Trump had used to try to ban WeChat and tick-tock through executive order in
the United States the the following summer so this this statute has got I
think some some issues to begin with but I think that we shouldn't lose sight of
the fact that the Virgil did plead to that you mentioned a whole host of
issues and and and concerns that go into whether or not somebody pleads
guilty and I think that look that's absolutely correct and what's happened
here with Virgil and his treatment in the MDC is is frankly it's just not
great it's horrible it's abhorrent I mean he's in the same facility that
Ghislaine Maxwell is being held in as we speak and others a lot of other people
that have done terrible terrible things that are magnitudes and light years
worse than what Virgil had done but all of these conditions are affecting all of
those people every single one of them not just Virgil either and so the these
terrible lockdown conditions that are happening at the MDC you know we call
every day and try to figure out if they're going to allow legal visits
again and every day we get the same answer that no legal visits aren't
permitted and we don't know when they are going to be permitted and so you
ask well what should we do and it's call back tomorrow maybe tomorrow will be
different so we've had very very limited contact with Virgil that said there
here's a man who is really really resilient he's trying to do his best
he's keeping his spirits high as much as he possibly can yet in these terrible
situations and he's making the most of it he's helping people over there trying
to help them figure out what they can do once they get outside now he's being
Virgil he's being himself he was running Dungeons and Dragons games I mean he's
doing the things that he that he can do to help other people while he's in there
and and I think you know that goes to his character it goes to I think the
power of his spirit it is to my mind indomitable so no matter what he's going
through here Emanuel we're talking about a strong human being who's going to get
through it it's not fair it's not right but you know I know I speak for the
wider defense team to that you know we all really care for him very very deeply
it's incredibly upsetting for me emotionally to go and see him sometimes
because I just hate the fact that he's in there I mean here's here's a here's a
man and not that you know education has anything to do with proportionality of
punishment but here's a guy who has a tremendous talent he's a great mind he
has a PhD in neuroscience from Caltech understands the world of blockchain
cryptocurrency information security neuroscience he's an extraordinary human
being he didn't hurt anybody he didn't do anything that that harmed anyone and
yet you know he's going to be he's looking and staring down the barrel of
between I think 63 and 78 months is what the plea deal had called for and so I
will reiterate once again that we should use this time this additional three
months that the defense did request this additional three months to help prepare
for the sentence help prepare a very powerful sentencing memorandum to
hopefully convince the judge that leniency should be granted to Virgil in
light of all the circumstances in light of his character so once again I
reiterate that if you know Virgil if you have anything good to say about him if
he helped you out in any respect you know please get in touch with me you
know there's lots of ways that you can contact me either through this show
through OTH at 2600.com or my email address a rubellis a u r b e l i s at
crowell.com that's c r o w e l l.com and I'd be happy to speak with you about
drafting a letter of support that could eventually and possibly go into the
sentencing memorandum and go before the judge and make a measurable difference
in terms of what Virgil is ultimately sentenced to on April 12th and the whole
world is watching this case this is a very very unique case both for people
that work in cryptocurrency people that work in blockchain people that travel
overseas for academics that go and speak at conferences overseas so that the
ramifications of this case are very very far-ranging and we all hope and I know
that a lot of people are coming together to support Virgil as as I know
you are man. Well I do have to disagree with one thing slightly that you said as
far as the the punishment not being proportional to education I think it
might be in this case but not in the way that that you're suggesting I think his
education his intelligence is working against him in other words he's not
being treated better because he's educated he's being treated worse
because he's educated seen as a threat seen as a danger you know it's like okay
here's here's a parallel for you you know when you're one of these geeky kids
in school you know somebody that the jocks don't understand what they do they
stuff you into a locker it's exactly what's being done to him right now he's
being stuck into a locker at MDC or whatever you call the hellhole he's in
because people don't understand him because people haven't taken the time to
listen because people are assuming the worst you know I know he can't speak
about this he pled guilty and I totally understand that but I can I can say that
you know there is no way in hell that the person I know would help a regime
like North Korea would try and make the sanctions against them go away what he
would try to do is figure out how that system worked and show the security
holes in it absolutely and that's something that I'd be interested in
doing too or how it could benefit the widest of the population there not some
specific government program or or aim yeah well I mean he wouldn't redefine
but but he would certainly try and shine light onto something onto a flawed system
and we just read you know they're stealing cryptocurrency it's happening
it was happening then you know it's yeah okay fine going to North Korea that was
the door that was the door that that allowed them to say oh you did something
that you shouldn't have done well let's look closer at you and it led to far
worse things go ahead Rob and I think what we're seeing here you touched on it
with the fact that you know in the in the Mitnick case in the Bernie S case in
so many cases with people we know and people we know of and have been talked
about over the decades of this program we have seen people sentenced
excessively treated excessively poorly because they did things that the general
public doesn't understand this is right up there with Kevin Mitnick not being
able to use a touchtone phone or you know then I'm fearing that he's going to
whistle into the phone and launch near nuclear missile somewhere because
cryptocurrency right now it's a very mysterious thing for most people some of
us understand how it works some of us have an inkling for some of us it's just
something that keeps showing up in the headlines and seems scary it's it's a
mystery and it's everywhere and it is a headline-grabbing thing right now that
you can say well this guy was giving cryptocurrency information to the enemy
to to North Korea when in practice I don't think he he would have been
telling them anything they couldn't have looked up on Wikipedia but but he is a
scapegoat he is being he is being punished because he is playing with
something mysterious and people are not sure what kind of mysterious powers he
has around it or what kind of mysterious powers he's granted to other people and
and he's suffering as a result and it's unfair it was unfair in Kevin Mitnick's
case it was unfair in Bernie's case it's unfair in this case and and just to
illustrate a little bit the cryptocurrency connection the reason he
had gone to North Korea well actually the reason he went to North Korea was
curiosity like I described before you know if you're not curious about a place
like that I don't understand you because it's just it's just so bizarre and weird
and you know the way I've described it I know has inspired other people to go
there as well not to support the regime to see this completely alien different
society and kind of shudder a little bit because it's so scary but he went there
because they were having a cryptocurrency conference in Pyongyang
in North Korea now how bizarre is that and as somebody who is into
cryptocurrency who actually understands the mechanisms of it far more than I
ever could he wanted to see what they were up to you know what they were
saying and one of the things he was accused of was answering their questions
answering their quest because somebody at the conference asked him a question
and he had the audacity to answer the question two things as Rob said you can
find this information on the internet very very easily and two when you're in
North Korea and somebody asks you a question you really should answer it
because being rude in North Korea that can be a danger to your life and he was
well aware of that it's ironic because you know when he went there we were
concerned that he would say something in his honest way that might offend them
and he could wind up in a North Korean prison what an idiot I was to believe
that was where the threat was the threat was here the threat was in this country
all along and I can only imagine the the mileage that the North Koreans are
getting out of that which is simply insane yes Alex yeah I mean the issue of
having answered questions is a bit I I guess it's a bit nuanced in the sense
because you know when you're dealing with this IEPA statute the International
Emergency Economic Powers Act there is a essentially a carve-out or something
known as the Berman Amendment that essentially notes that the First
Amendment still protects you while you're over there and if you're talking
about information that would be publicly available you know for instance
you know like a gumbo recipe or something that is you know available
through Google and is in a set form the fact that it's a gumbo recipe that's set
in a form in on a page that is static makes a difference in terms of whether
or not you have violated the law whereas if you just answered and gave your own
off-the-cuff gumbo recipe you know that you know was transferring knowledge over
to North Korea it could come there could be a different outcome so there are all
these bizarre nuances with this particular statute that make it very
difficult for somebody to know whether or not they are crossing a lot exactly
Alex do you think the average person knows any of that you know and if do you
think if he had been told this that oh you know if you if you continue to try
and figure out this system you might be in violation you think he would have
continued it all came as a big shock to everybody and it's easy to say now that
oh you violated this and it's clearly written here the average person has no
conception of that and it's it's it's crazy to think that they have this Lexus
Nexus database inside their head that's gonna tell them exactly what they're
doing wrong at any particular moment you know I I was completely floored when when
they came after him the way they came after him like I said I thought the
worst that would happen would be some kind of a fine for traveling to the
country or losing your passport possibly worst-case scenario nobody has ever ever
gotten into this kind of trouble just for going to North Korea and for
answering questions and for trying to figure out how a particular system might
be able to be compromised hey that's what we do that's what we do on this
show that's what we do in the magazine that's what we do on the conferences so
where is that line at what point do you know that you've crossed the line and
you've done something now that's triggered some kind of crazy legal
response that'll wind up throwing you in some dungeon someplace for for years at
a time and and get subjected to deadly diseases and and horrible conditions you
know there's just so much here that is new to me that I didn't think was was
a reality that was so close to us this is the same federal government that was
opening up communication and diplomatic ties in the previous administration with
North Korea and and where prior to even those overtures of diplomacy official
diplomacy yes from a very a president literally going there and shaking hands
with the North Korean leader before that there were plenty excursion plenty of
excursions of media and tourists alike even former basketball stars promoting
their own crypto coins you know wearing t-shirts and I mean this is this was not
unusual terrain for visitors of North Korea and I just I find the real
paradox and then sort of relaxing of official ties under the previous
administration while at the same time imposing this upon other Americans so
the the leadership and president gets the glad hand there but anything like
stuff before that even in a under a warming of relations is forbidden now
it's very very odd to me and every year basically pressure is being put upon
administration to rescind that that ban of travel to North Korea because you
know it's a crazy regime but we're not supposedly a crazy regime where our
people are allowed the right to travel wherever they wish and it's just
something that is so unusual for us to have to fathom as a reality so that
right away that's that's the starting point of all of Virgil's troubles but
there is more to this case and like I said we just found out about this before
the show and again Alex can you give out the information so if people who want to
help can do so and then we'll move on to some other topics tonight absolutely and
I want to repeat myself yet again that one of the ways in which you can help
here and we do have an opportunity now given that there's about three months
before Virgil is going to be sentenced is to draft a letter of support if you
know Virgil if you know of his character if you've been in contact with him and
he's made some kind of difference in your life a positive difference of
change he spoke to you at a conference gave you a kind word whatever it is if
you have something to say about him we would love to speak with you about
drafting a support letter and you can contact me through OTH at 2600.com if
that's easy if that's easier for you or you can email me directly at my law
firm which is a or Bellis a you are B E L I S that's Lima India Sierra at the
end there at crawl C R O W E L L as an echo Lima Lima dot-com and again I'd be
very happy to speak with anybody who wants to draft a support letter and and
provide you some guidelines put you in touch with wider defense team I think we
have an opportunity to help Virgil now with this time we have to take advantage
of it and there will be a sentencing memorandum that's going to be submitted
to the court your letter could be part of that sentencing memorandum and or be
referenced in that sentencing memorandum and in a sentencing memorandum is going
to go into a lot of issues things about you know the disparity of sentences you
know between this case and others you know all the different types of research
that would ordinarily go into that I don't want to speak too much about
strategy or things that are beyond what would ordinarily be placed in there but
please do get in contact with us yeah we think it's imperative the time is of the
essence and and let's let's do our level best to help somebody who's been a
friend of this community for literally decades Alex I know you're trying to
put a positive spin on this by saying we now have the opportunity to help him but
the case was resolved in September all right there was October there was
November there was December and there was January for us to be able to help by
writing these letters I don't understand why we need February and March and April
now and as additional time and what happens if they decide that no he still
can't meet with his lawyers for those months does he simply get a pushback
even further how long does this go on for and when do we start saying no this
isn't a good thing this isn't an opportunity this is abuse and we really
need to challenge this because I don't see that happening I don't see us
standing up and saying this is wrong it has to stop it has to stop now and I see
a lot of a lot of motions and a lot of gratitude towards the people that are in
charge of the torture and it's just something about this that really rubs
me the wrong way like it's a very difficult position that Virgil is it
right now this time period between pleading guilty and being sentenced is
extraordinarily sensitive and that's why I think you know he has to be he has to
tread very very lightly in terms of what he says to whom he speaks with whom he
communicates you know all of this can be can work against him and in a lot of
ways and he's got to be very very careful and he has been he has been
running extremely he's been he's been treading extremely lightly you know he's
been a model prisoner as you have said he hasn't you know pissed off anybody or
violated any of the rules the court has set aside I'm talking about the rest of
us I'm talking about us on the outside you know I just think we're being a
little too nice well maybe maybe but you know look to be fair you know it was the
prosecutors and the US attorneys that did help try to schedule a conference
call with Virgil's defense team you know while he was at the MDC in isolation and
I think without their intervention they might not have even been able to speak
to Virgil that you know what's going on at the MD Alex that is so wrong I mean
the fact that they were able to do it great but the fact that he had to wait
months for that to happen and the fact that they can't visit him and they can't
have a video conference call with him and he can't have any visitors and he's
in these conditions all of that is so wrong it's terrible it's absolutely
terrible but it's it's what's happening at the MDC it's not necessarily the
prosecutors fault here I do want to be clear about that this is an MDC policy
that is way beyond their control they don't have any any ability to determine
or set policy you know within the MDC the MDC is because of the Omicron
variant running rampant through the prison system and my understanding too
is that that most prisoners are not getting a booster shot either so these
are exactly these things and and then he wasn't requesting to go to the MDC he
was a question go to a much nicer place with this kind of thing wouldn't be
happening and that was denied well this is intentional the judge actually did
agree to recommend that that Virgil not go to the MDC and be sent over to the
Essex County facility where he was being held prior to trial as well which is a
just on the outskirts of Newark New Jersey so why is he at MDC then what
made him go there the Bureau of Prisons decided ultimately that Virgil would go
to MDC and not to Essex County which is unfortunate but judge Castile did in
fact recommend on the record that Virgil should go to Essex County and not the
Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn and nobody can override the
Bureau of Prisons when they make a decision like this I don't think there
is an ability to do that you know it would have to probably you'd have to
contest it in a manner I think and find that it was arbitrary and capricious
which is nearly impossible to do in a legal setting you'd be way out of there
by the time you even had that case decided and so it's a terrible situation
these in it's exacerbated by the coronavirus it's exacerbated by the
isolation that he feels and all the various factors that you went into a
manual it absolutely is and when does it end we don't necessarily know because
the MDC has to get their hands around the fact that they need to get the
coronavirus under control because if he cannot participate with his Defense
Counsel it's going to be very difficult to draft an effective sentencing
memorandum they can't draft an effective sentencing memorandum then those extra
months at the MDC will be for naught because these extra months that he's
spending at the MDC will hopefully make a measurable difference if we come
together as a community to draft letters of support to show the world that we
care about Virgil and what's happening to him so we have to take advantage of
this time to make sure that Virgil's continued suffering in this horrible
place where he is he is not in vain this is this is the time where we have to do
is why I have to keep putting a positive spin on it even though the situation
absolutely does suck for him we need to come together now and you know we can't
just complain that it's unfair let's work together to make sure that this
unfairness that he's suffering through right now and continuing to suffer
through actually makes a difference to a sentence because these extra weeks and
I thought it would probably be weeks and not months before the new sentencing day
that happened the whole reasoning behind this is to make an effective case to the
judge and that that's why his Defense Counsel the you know hadn't requested
that in turn because they cannot talk with Virgil right now nobody can talk
with him I haven't seen him since I think it was veterans day it was the
last time I went and saw him so you know and even then it was a crazy situation
they denied one of my colleagues entry even though he was cleared and on the
list and he had come all the way up from the District of Columbia to visit with
Virgil and and as I got in to see Virgil they told me okay well you know you're
going to you're gonna have 20 minutes you only have 20 minutes ordinarily we
would have you know well over an hour to speak but that being said you know these
things you never know what the hell's going to happen one of the guards there
you know let us sit through this lockdown didn't take Virgil out you know
that made him step out for about five minutes and then he came back and then
we were able to spend you know about three hours together so you know that
was great I think just on a personal and and and professional level all right
well we all appreciate your efforts Alex and anyone else who is helping in any way
it certainly makes a huge difference but yeah it's a terrible situation and we're
almost out of time unfortunately we are going to be continuing on overtime but I
wanted to quickly talk about another story that is basically taking place
involving COVID and that is the rollout today of the website the federal website
that allows you to get free at-home rapid COVID testing kits I know Rob you
you found some indication that there might be some trouble with some of the
addresses that are being entered into the system what can you tell us about
that yeah a lot of people were going to the site which is COVIDtests.gov
that's COVIDtests.gov and there's a form there where you can fill in your
address and request a shipment of four absolutely free COVID tests the what's
been happening is a lot of people in multifamily dwellings apartments divided
houses things like that have been finding that they can't order a test if
their neighbor in the same building has ordered a test already because there's
a limit of one per dwelling and not every not every dwelling is listed
properly as a multifamily dwelling in the post office or the government's
systems so people are coming up against that there is there there they are
asking that people use the USPS's store the contact form on there to get in
touch with the Postal Service who's running this this whole thing and start
a file a service request and you can do that at email us dot USPS dot com slash
s slash the dash postal dash store dash inquiry or you could just make your way
to the Postal Service store their online store and go to the contact us link which
is that and you can also contact the USPS helpdesk by phone at 1-800-ASK-USPS
that's 1-800-ASK-USPS the corresponding digits on your phone dial and
that's that's where things are right now people some people are not able to
request their free tests some people have found they're able to if they fill
in the form with the first line of their address but not the second and let the
let the rest fill itself in there there are weird ways so we want to hear about
it if you have come up against this glitch yourself and have found a way
around it please let us know OTH at 2600.com and we'll we'll get that info
out there as well you know I was able to do this yesterday a day before the site
was supposedly going to launch I had no trouble whatsoever it was very I mean it
wasn't like Obamacare when that website came out this is very smooth but it does
follow the USPS rules so you have to enter the address as the post office
understands it now you can't use a P.O. box I kind of understand why because the
P.O. box isn't a household necessarily you do have to use an actual address and
you can't use a commercial address you can't use a mail drop you have to use an
actual street address which you know that might be unacceptable for some
people but you know USPS already has that information I think you can put in
any name I don't think you have to put in your actual name you just put in an
email address I believe so that they can tell you it's on the way and things like
that but you know mess around with it and you can you can send these things to
other addresses too if you if your grandmother needs a test you can do
that for her you don't have to be the person at that address I'm not sure
that's the intention of the site but it does work that way but it is smooth it
does work it's it's fairly quick and you know I had no real trouble with it I
usually do have trouble with these things I hope people take advantage of
this for real good like you know not trying to do anything silly or like
resell or something like that oh god no I really hope it isn't explained that
way but rather people get as many as they can and then distribute them help
help the post office as it were distribute them even more widely than
those limitations might yeah might set up no this is a good thing I know we
like to complain about a lot of things but getting all these tests that's a
good thing can we get more yes we should do more but let's acknowledge that this
is this is the right move and this is something we should take advantage of
and help other people take advantage of it and pay attention to when they expire
maybe they have a little bit of a shelf life maybe save it for later whatever
you need you know it's it's it's really gonna be interesting so and I'm curious
what people notice about them what kind of tests they are and so forth let's
take care of each other and get through the crisis right to us OTH at 2600.com
we are out of here for now join us on overtime at YouTube channel 2600 is the
name of the channel and follow the link that's on the top of the page 2600.com
page join us on WBAI next week 7 p.m. good night
Oh
good