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And a very good evening to everybody.
The program is Off the Hook.
Manuel holy with here with.
Joined tonight by Kyle.
Yeah.
For the most part.
Alex.
Good evening.
Firefly evening and Gila welcome back. Hello. Thank you. Well, here we are again on another Wednesday evening in
the waning days of May and
I guess we're getting closer to normalcy. I'm seeing signs of it everywhere
Hey, we went Kyle and I went to Manhattan a couple days ago and boy that was interesting
The city is coming back. It told me last week that you're gonna tell me when you were going to Manhattan and I would meet
You there. Yeah. Yeah, I know
Wait, I remember that it was Alex that told us that we had to tell him
We never said that we were gonna tell him
Yeah, he did tell us that we had to tell him
I think I realized we didn't have to do that
We could just go on the spur of the moment and check it out for ourselves
You know, we want to keep it low-key
You know what happens Alex when we get together crowds form autographs all that stuff and I just wanted it to you know
Be a little bit
Mellow this time and it you know, I put a hood over my head and everything was fine
But I gotta say, you know, the spirit in in New York is is incredible
You know
You expect contentiousness when there shouldn't be any with the whole mask
situation and social distancing but everybody was really looking out for each other and I didn't get any kind of
The feeling that you might hear about in the mass media
people were just happy to be out and
You know glad to be seeing
Old places again and and and people and just being outside in the fresh air
So don't believe the reports that you might be hearing about how New York has turned into a cesspool and everybody's killing each other
No, it's not like that at all. It's it's amazing. It's like a
breath of fresh air and
Hope to come back soon. Alex. I see you're holed up in Pennsylvania, though
Yeah, I'm holed up in Pennsylvania, but I spend about you know half the week in New York, I guess
Okay, I will say this you're you're seeing New York at a time when it is
Re-emerging from the pandemic and the darker days of the the fall and the winter
I have to say it was really not such a nice place. Well, no place was no place a nice place
I think especially in New York. It was yeah, there were very few people out on the streets. I would look out
For my street, which is a very busy Street in Manhattan
And you know ordinarily any time of the day or night you can see people milling around three o'clock in the morning four o'clock in
The morning doesn't matter. So if people I would look out the window and not see anybody walk down the street for ten minutes
I mean it it felt like a ghost town. It was certainly more dangerous, but it is so
Very much snapping back right now. I mean the city feels happier. It feels healthier. It's sunny
You know, it's it's a it's a vibrant place again
And what the city lost to my mind during the height of the pandemic was
You know when you walk outside of your apartment or whatever it is your office building here
You're on the street in Manhattan any borough really and you feel this buzz
There was always a buzz of activity in New York. That was what was missing during the lockdown
It was gone
but I feel like it's back you walk out the streets and people are happy and they're doing things and and once again and
What did you think by the way of all the the outdoor dining? Oh, I think it's great, you know
I wanted to be first of all, I was wondering somebody must have made a fortune building all these structures
The designs got really really good. Yeah, there's some incredible finish work out there
They're just a craftsman behind all this but there's every shop through their own
They have like high voltage for for heaters in the winter and it was incredible
Yeah, I think if any good is gonna come out of the hell we've been through in the last year
That's the good that's going to come out of it
You know was being in the city. Maybe this is just me not being in the city for a while
But I really do think there was a change. I see a lot more people out on bikes
I see a lot more people walking. I see less cars and
certainly less parking spaces because of all the
The new outdoor dining and I think that's great. I think you know, we need to to have more of a people-based City
not
Deadly vehicle type sitting I think we're making the transition rather nicely
And you know, I hope that these these outdoor structures help to save a lot of these
Establishments that might otherwise not survive. Yes, Rob. Go ahead
Yeah, I I do appreciate the outdoor dining structures. I
Also appreciate the bike lanes and walkable sidewalks
So in some places you've seen the app we see the outdoor structures actually taking away from those
In in a lot of places they're taking away from parking spaces for cars
Which is fine for me because you know fewer cars is not a bad thing in this city
Well, they are in the street, you know, they're in the street. They shouldn't be on the sidewalk
The structures are for the most part in the street, but not always not always there are several restaurants by my office
I have been in the city two days a week
Since right after Labor Day and it's fascinating to see there it I actually basically slalomed down the sidewalk
yesterday because that
There are
there's a restaurant that has taken over half of its block with
strategically placed tables and
at one point there's like a stoop with stairs and there's I have no idea how someone who had a
Stroller or who used a wheelchair would be able to get through that block right now because the sidewalk is so constrained
I love seeing the outdoor dining in the streets. I'm a little less
Enthused about outdoor dining tables on the side. Well, yeah, that's true. There needs to be some tweaking
I think we're in that stage right now
If you walk down the sidewalk going from one place to another and you wind up getting handed a menu
That's a sign of a problem and we need to address that and make sure that it doesn't encroach on people who are simply trying
To get from one place to another but I just you know, I felt like I was saying this to Kyle
I just felt like people had ownership more
you know what I mean by that is
People were walking around like it was their city like they had reclaimed it but they had survived, you know
a year of hell and
they weren't going to to lose anymore and
I just I just got that kind of defiant attitude and I think defiant attitudes are great
So I'm hoping this is something we don't let go of and we keep we keep building on it
I
Suggest people just go into town walk around spend a day just seeing things and and
Experiencing these first new days because they are very special
Yeah, and and support the businesses that you've been worried about all year
the the places you love the places that that take care of you well and the places that deserve to
Survive the rougher times as we've all as we've all been facing. We we had a frozen yogurt recently out of an outdoor dining area
You've been living in the fast lane haven't you Wow tell us tell us about those
Our air conditioner is not working correctly right now
so in the 90 degree heat on Sunday, I said we're getting out of here and
We walked through our neighborhood and it was lovely and we got frozen yogurt and we ate it outside
And then we went shopping in a store that had air conditioning and and then we came home
Yeah, Wow
Life in the fast lane, there's life in the fat, but but great good for you. And that's that's that's awesome
Um, I did have a new experience
This past week. I did something that I haven't done in a year and a half do share. I caught a cold. Oh, wow
Hopefully not
intentionally
But I guess I guess we can do that again
any particular event, I mean
masks work is the thing and
We are completely vaccinated and we were visiting family who are completely vaccinated with the exception of the small child
who was so excited to see me and
He while I was holding him
coughed
directly into my mouth and
Shared his daycare cold Wow, and you brought that back to Manhattan or to the Queen. I sure did
I well mostly to Queens
But it was very interesting I
Contacted the HR department at my work and I said I feel terrible like I physically feel terrible
but am I gonna need a negative kovat test to come back in and
She said oh, well, you're vaccinated. So
Only if you're actively symptomatic and I'm not actively symptomatic
The symptoms are the same as a cold though, aren't they?
Not entirely because I still have my sense of taste my sense of smell
I'm not achy. I just had a stuffy nose and and a cough, but the good news is that
It was not a kovat cough because you should pardon me, but kovat coughs are not productive and mine was
Well, good for you. I'm happy to hear that and I had and I also had no fever Wow
But I think you touched on a very good point in that us wearing masks for the last year
Yeah, I guess there have been fewer colds as well. I was wondering about that if I catch a cold
How is it? I'm catching a cold but not catching kovat. Do they travel?
And in fact, it turns out they they the germs do travel in a different manner
So you can catch a coat a cold while while wearing a mask, but not be protected from kovat
But I do think that wearing the masks
Kept us from other unpleasant things as well. So there there's a you know, another positive aspect to all that
I feel like just at least having
It as one more thing in your pocket has been
The theme and will probably be the theme going forward
yeah, because you slip it on or you know, you at least have it for a situation that
You may have learned from like as in Gia's story
You know walking around we went to the west side. I don't often go to the west side
I know Alex you spending time in the west side
But we went to the Hudson River, you know that little island
They built the floating island little island got a look at that
You can't go to it because you have to make a reservation months in advance
And we weren't about to do that
But the architecture is interesting all the new buildings there that have sprung up in in recent years
Hadn't really gotten a close look at them before there's one scary looking building there
If maybe a listener can help us tell tell us what this building is with a kind of a ledge way up high
It looks like an observation deck
It's right by the Hudson River and I get scared just looking at it and seeing all the people standing on it
You know, it looks looks like you know, we're on the Hudson. That's a pretty long stretch of river
Yeah, it's in there
I think it's in the 20s the 20s or the 30s in that in that zone probably and we visit Moynihan train hall
Which is great. You know, we actually have a
European style train hall and in Manhattan
I urge everybody to go and visit that and if they rebuild Penn Station to to make it worthy of its name
Then we'll have something truly amazing in that region. But you know one thing that we saw that was distressing Hotel, Pennsylvania
Locked up literally got a padlock on it with a laser-printed sign that says hotel closed
Nothing more than that. There is no reason for that hotel to be closed now because people are
Visiting again other hotels are open and the only reason we can see for this happening
is that Vornado really wants to push ahead with their plans to demolish it and build a
Another office building that we don't need as part of a master plan of some sort really. It's it's a disservice
I know people in New York don't appreciate it because
you know people in New York don't tend to stay in hotels in New York, but people who travel and
need affordable places to stay that hotel was a godsend and
It's just recognizable to everybody. It's it's their trademark is the most popular hotel in the world
So I think we have the most popular hotel in the world
Being shuttered by a greedy landlord who wants to put thousands of people out of work
So that they can build an office tower that is not needed. It's so wrong
I know the hope conferences aren't being held there anymore, but that's not the issue
You know when we said we wanted to save the hotel back in 2008
We meant it then and we mean it now
Because it's a structure worthy of preservation. It's got so much history and it serves a
Very valuable purpose. It was a very successful place and there's no reason to have that depressing
site greet people when they get out of Penn Station of a once vibrant place closed just because
Some some landlord made the decision
Alex go ahead. I
Raise just the issue of
What what in the hell is the landmarks Preservation Commission doing in New York these days? I mean they were so quick to
Insist on rubber stamping the landmark designation of the strands building an entirely unremarkable building architecturally
And claiming that it had all of this cultural significance
Well, the hotel Pennsylvania has a hell of a lot of cultural significance a huge amount of history and yet they're doing nothing
In so far as I can tell to save that building
As they did nothing with with many many many other buildings that also deserved
landmark recognition the biggest
Comment I hear about the hotel is that it's it's not attractive. It's not pretty but you know a lot of times history isn't pretty
Okay, you know some of the some of the ruins in Rome and boy, you know
It looks like somebody let it go, you know go to waste but it's there's history
So many stories so much has happened and
It really is a significant structure. Yes, Kyle
I just want to add that when you look in through the side entrance
You can see the exposed beam that was part of a small project they had started
inside the hotel showcasing different
intact historical
parts of the hotel with
some kind of placard and
A setting dressing to put it in context for what it was originally and
people who say to the hotel could go and look at different parts of it and this beam is one of those things in the
Lobby there and peering into the closed doors was surreal
Knowing that that was something that they were emphasizing and now here it is in flux
so I imagine whatever it becomes some of that will have to stay put or
You know
Be a sticking point on any kind of demolition. Yeah, I just realized we have a phone
We can call the hotel right now and see what greets people when when they try to connect Kyle
Do you think that's something you could work out?
Because we use the phone for overtime and by the way folks if you want to call us
you can call us just not during this part because we're not in the studio and we have no control over the phone and
More importantly the delay system
But we do have a phone here and we have overtime at 8 o'clock do you want tone or pulse?
It doesn't matter well tone because we might have to hit some some numbers after so
Going to call Pennsylvania six five thousand, which is a famous number ready. Yeah
It's exciting
That's amazing
Thank you for calling New York's Hotel, Pennsylvania an Energy Star awarded property and the world's most popular hotel
We're conveniently located at 401 7th Avenue at 33rd Street
Directly across from Penn Station and Madison Square Garden if you are calling about booking reservations
You may choose to access our website at www.hotelpenn.com
For real-time booking 24 hours a day seven days a week and for information about our packages and specials
If you know the extension of the party you would like to reach
Please dial it now or select from the following options for room reservations. Please press 1
Please hold on while I try that extension
Oh, maybe they're open
The number you are trying to reach is out of service
And there you go that is sobering that is very very sobering
It's like somebody just walked away and unplugged it that's that's that's horrible
Anyway, so that was a that was a negative part of our trip to New York seeing that I hope that situation
Gets resolved somehow. I hope people come to their senses literally thousands of people work there and
Some of the best people around they really are awesome people and I hope those jobs can be saved. Go ahead Gila
I was gonna say I did per the recorded instructions. Check out hotel Penn dot-com
Which is still running fairly normally except that on the home page. There's a little
Banner that says we're closed due to kovat 19 and then there are
Steps that they're outlining about how they're handling kovat 19 and they put in hand sanitizers and told their staff to stop hugging people
Yeah, but except their staff is no longer there. Yeah, they're close
No, I understand that per the website. You wouldn't know. Yeah, that's true. I don't think it's been updated in six months. Yes, Rob
This is also a bit of telecom history because as people might know I think
Pennsylvania six five thousand holds a holds a record for being like the longest phone number in service or one of them anyway
You know, it was it was that when Glenn Miller wrote the tune and it's still Pennsylvania six five thousand if you translate, you know
PE six five thousand to modern numbers and use the area code, which is Manhattan two one two, and here's a bit of trivia
those people
Okay, thank you. Is that your your toddler cold there? Okay
The second place number is the WBA I pledge line two one two two zero nine two nine five zero. That's right
We got it back
I had a long fight and we got the number back if you call that number now you can pledge and support WBA
I support this radio station support this radio show
just tell the nice person picks up the phone that you want to support the station and
Tell them how much you'd like to pledge one-time pledge
Monthly pledge all sorts of different things. You can also go to give to WBA org
keep this voice of freedom alive and keep people away who try to
Lock the doors and take it over. It happens every now and then it's it's it's like a pandemic of sorts
We call it the Pacific a pandemic or a telenovela
Sort of like that, too
Hey one of our listeners
Called us actually
after the show last week on overtime and this is the kind of thing that
That we're talking about when we say you can participate in the radio show
Yeah, when if you call after the show
You can talk to us and we can actually get involved in things that you're involved in
Except I've lost I've lost it. Did I give you a piece of paper Kyle? Oh
Yeah, give me that you need that yes, damn it
Looking all over the place for it and you you had the paper that I needed. This is what our listener wrote to us
I called you on off the hook overtime this evening asking if you might help me with a petition
for
The disabled and this is important
the situation our listener is going through
involves
home health aides and
The issue is that she doesn't know if they're vaccinated for kovat 19 when they come to her house and
She's getting difficulty finding out that information. I find the situation to be completely abhorrent
Did a little bit of research into this and I know there are people out there who know a hell of a lot more
Hopefully can write to us OTH at 2600 comm
With more information or perhaps be part of overtime later when no doubt we'll talk about this some more
But according to a New York Times article from a couple of months ago
This is a question of many long-term care employers from individual families to big national companies are confronting as vaccines become more available
In a pandemic, can they require vaccination for those who care for very vulnerable older adults and should they well some employers aren't waiting
Atria senior living which is one of the nation's largest assisted living chains
Announced that by May 1st, all staff members must be fully vaccinated
Silverado a small chain of dementia care homes
Wow dementia care homes a chain of dementia care homes. Just it's just a weird phrase to say
mostly on the west coast
Mandated vaccination by March 1st juniper communities, which operates 22 facilities in four states has also adopted a mandate
We felt it was the best way to protect people not just our residents, but our team members and their families
Said Lynn Katzmann juniper's chief executive of the company's nearly 1,300 employees about 30 individuals have self-terminated
Wow, that that means quit in corporate speak, but it sounds so ominous
They have self-terminated because of the vaccine requirement now juniper's experience supports with public health experts have said for years
vaccine mandates like those that many health care organizations have established for the flu vaccine remain controversial, but
They do increase vaccination rates as of February 25th
97.7% of juniper residents had received two vaccine doses and so had 96% of its staff members
which makes sense a
National recruiting platform for health care companies my CNA jobs.com last month polled
250 companions aides and nursing assistants and facilities and in home care it interviews thousands more daily
It estimates that 35% plan to be vaccinated 20% do not and more than 40% remain unsure. That is
abysmal absolutely terrible
These workers can't distance from the older people
They help with tasks like bathing dressing and toileting as they enter and leave facilities and private homes often working multiple jobs
These workers can spread the corona virus and they and their families are likewise vulnerable to its dangers
Now experts say it's probably legal for employers to make vaccination a condition of employment the Federal Equal Opportunity
Employment Commission has agreed so long as mandates permit health and religious exemptions
University of Pennsylvania analysis found last fall that nationally about half of American adults would consider employer mandates acceptable
It's unwise to mandate a vaccine while it's under an emergency use authorization as the three vaccines and use in the United States are
That's according to Lawrence Gostin a law professor at Georgetown University
Now because mandates during emergency use authorization known as EUA could bring legal challenges
He advised waiting for full Food and Drug Administration
Approval which could come fairly soon actually for Pfizer and Moderna vaccines
After that, he said I would expect state or local governments might mandate that people working in health care be vaccinated
They would have the right to do that ethically
He said though it's entirely justified people have the right to take chances with their own health that they absolutely do not have the right
to endanger others
now
some individuals who hire home care aides
Privately say they will require future candidates to be vaccinated and that's that's something
I think our listener needs to keep in mind that she has the right to insist that anybody who comes into her home be vaccinated
now
From the Chicago Tribune when Melissa Fisher learned she'd have to get vaccinated to keep her job. She tried to fight it
Fisher works in an assisted living and memory care facility run by Chicago based and Levant
She gave the company a letter from her pastor explaining her religious objection
She also volunteered to get tested for COVID-19 each week rather than be vaccinated
But and Levant stood firm telling her in an email that her request to forego
Vaccination was denied because of the nature of her job and the threat to yourself and others from remaining unvaccinated and
Fisher expects her last day will be Monday. I just thought they would honor my freedom of religion my rights
But apparently we don't have that right anymore
Yeah, but you do you do have that right you just don't have the right, you know, I have the right to you know
To launch a rocket for Elon Musk, you know, but I'm not qualified really
So I'm not gonna get to do that, but I have the right, you know
there's nothing saying that I don't have the right to do that if I'm qualified if I pass certain tests and by saying
You don't want to get a vaccine and you want to work in home health care
You're not passing a test an important test
Fisher is an apostolic holiness Christian
And Levant has more than 200 facilities across the country
Fisher who works at an on Levant facility in Tennessee helps residents with daily tasks
Yeah, so basically
she
believes requirements to get vaccines could be a first step towards and I'm quoting her here towards the mark of the beast and
Apocalyptic reference from the book of Revelation. Okay, you know what you're free to believe all this
But you're believing all of this should not be forced upon other people just as you say
You don't want other people's beliefs forced on you. That is what you are doing by insisting that you're okay. You're safe
I mean she says she would never endanger the people for whom she cares. She wears masks and gloves
It's not enough
How do you explain this?
She doesn't think it makes sense for our Levant to require her to get vaccinated when outside health care workers and visitors are allowed
in the facility without proof of vaccination
I
Understand that I'm dealing with the elderly. I don't take that lightly. They're my family. I'm not going to do anything to jeopardize them
That's right. You won't because she's leaving on June 8th
so
It's you know crazy conversation we have to have but
Science medicine. These are important things and religion is important to people too. I get that but just like you know
the woman who was in charge of
or was it a guy in charge of
Granting marriage licenses who objected to gay marriage licenses?
Well, you know what you have the wrong job because that is your job to do that
And if it's something that conflicts with your religion, you need to be reassigned to something else
It's not a hard concept to grasp
Yeah, it's it's right up there with people, you know objecting people who work at like say a pharmacy objecting to the fact that they
Have to sell people say birth control items when their own beliefs don't allow for such things
But yep, you're the person there whose responsibility that is and no one's forcing you to
Do these things, you know, no one's forcing you to put yourself at risk
But at the at the same time like with an issue like vaccination
There's an old saying like you're right to swing your fist and somewhere before it reaches my face
And when you're when you go out there unvaccinated you are putting everyone around you at increased risk
That is a scientific fact that is not your feelings that is not your religious beliefs
That is how this works. We know this and there are so many other
Aspects of our lives that we can apply that to you know, waving guns around
Just acting in an unsafe manner driving on safely, you know, you have rights you have privileges
You have things that if you're able to do them, you should be able to do them
but when you start acting irresponsibly hurting other people you lose those rights and
That's just the way it is. That's how it has to be. Otherwise
Society can't function. Anyway, let me read this this petition and people can get involved if if they want to
I am disabled and at high risk for severe consequences or death if I were to get kovat
I need the help of a home health care aide who was fully vaccinated
Hhc
Hhc agencies claim they can't ask their aides to be vaccinated or disclose their vaccination status to me
But this is not so hhc
That's a hard acronym to say
Agencies are allowed to insist that all employees be vaccinated
They can ask aids to sign a confidentiality waiver to let them to let me know the vaccination status of an aid as it is
I have not been able to get an hhc aid since January 3rd and
My need is dire
I am only one of many vulnerable people who have the right to be assured that the help they need will in fact not
Endanger them although
Hhc agencies claim all of their aides are properly trained and how to wear masks
I have witnessed this is not so e.g.
People climb the stairs and as soon as they get in the door take off their mask to pant to pant
They also claim that having had their temperature taken earlier in the day means they are healthy
Anyone who was actually serious about their clients safety would be willing to be vaccinated and to say so an agency that is serious about
Clients safety would require this of all employees
Please pass whatever legislation you can to help make this happen and the link for this petition
change.org
Disabled need vaccinated AIDS. I don't know if it's case-sensitive if it is
Disabled need vaccinated AIDS each word is capitalized and AIDS is spelled a ID es
again change.org
disabled need vaccinated AIDS and
Yeah, this is a you know, I had no idea this was an issue
I just thought common sense was prevailing here. And of course, this wouldn't be a problem, but I
should stop making that mistake because obviously it is it really shows there's like variability even in a sector that
deals with people who are at specific risk for a situation like this and the
Seriousness of the pandemic is no less serious. We have options and it's a
sort of relative
freeing up and opening up so to speak, but I would say it's still a sort of
situation that demands a certain amount of caution
and
Yeah, I don't know. I just how are you in health care if you're not taking advantage of all the possible
things especially with something like this
Disease that we're still learning a lot about we don't know the long-term effects of it
We don't know if there's going to be re-emergence in some way or these
Variants, of course as I've been in the news so much still and you know, we feel like we're experts on this now
Somehow there are a lot of intelligent people well-trained people who make the wrong decision who reach the wrong conclusions
There is no field that is immune from this
If only there were a vaccine, but there isn't for that
So don't be surprised when somebody who you would think would get it doesn't for one reason or another
It's and it's very easy to be to be convinced and I know we're gonna get angry emails from this
It's it's it's inevitable. We always seem to get the angry emails like for instance last week
We got an email from somebody in between the really fantastic ones didn't get well
I don't know we seem to get more of the angry ones in the than the fantastic ones late
I don't know if the fantastic people just doing fantastic things somewhere else, but not writing us letters
Maybe you can write us a letter oth 2600 calm make us feel like you know, we're not shouting into the wind here
Okay, here's a letter from Alex you said it was laughable that the unvaccinated were wearing masks
So they won't catch kovat from the vaccinated
Yeah, it was that was pretty laughable. I thought he didn't think so
You should do your homework before talking over
5,000 fully vaccinated people have come down with kovat and from Pfizer's own official documents
state both inhalation and skin contact will transmit whatever is in the VAX from the vaccinated to the
Unvaccinated and that the results are devastating. So please inform yourself before opening your mouth
Well Alex how
How do I say this nice how does this ignorance get so pervasive
How I mean well
I know how I know how because like I said people that you trust people that seem to have some kind of stature in the
community say things that are utter nonsense and
whenever somebody does that
Many many more people believe them. So we're not blaming you Alex for getting this so incredibly wrong
But understand that this is a huge problem. This is something that
So many people are falling victim to it doesn't take much to look into this
Even though you really shouldn't have to
The claim is that people who are fully vaccinated against kovat 19 can shed viral particles from the vaccine and infect
Unvaccinated people and
Basically that there is
An organization known as
Lifesite la fe si te they bill themselves as an independent pro-life news outlet
And they have written that people who have received the coronavirus vaccine may still infect others
As these experimental vaccines create spike proteins vaccinated individuals can shed some of these particles to close contacts
causing disease in them including in children
It says the sub headline of the article which has more than 2,000 shares on Facebook and Facebook, of course is the other
The cause of all this well the clearinghouse
as evidence
Lifesite which was banned from YouTube for repeatedly sharing misinformation about the pandemic
Cited in April 26 press release from a group called America's frontline doctors
The vaccine produces many trillions of particles of spike proteins in the recipient patients who are vaccinated can shed some of these spike protein particles
to close contacts
The particles have the ability to create inflammation and disease in these contacts. In other words, the spike proteins are
pathogenetic
disease causing just like the fall virus
So when you develop a check on this, which you know is is not too difficult to do
Fatality rates among fully vaccinated people who develop COVID-19
That is misleading according to experts
Now the information which comes from an official sounding group makes it seem like there's
Little benefit and potentially some harm to getting vaccinated against COVID-19
That could not be further from the truth Public Health Authorities say three coronavirus vaccines approved for emergency use in the United States are safe
And effective at preventing serious COVID-19 infections
Americans who receive those vaccines do not shed particles of the virus or the vaccine
For one thing the virus is not a part of the vaccine
So how would that even happen while there's a small chance COVID-19 vaccinated people can still get sick and spread the virus called breakthrough cases
Research suggests they are less likely to transmit the virus and unvaccinated people and I can also add that if you do get sick and
You're vaccinated the sickness will be much much less serious
And if you were not vaccinated that has been proven over and over again
America's frontline doctors has previously spread misinformation about the pandemic. That's their name. That's not who they are America's frontline doctors
They spread misinformation including the false claim that hydroxychloroquine is a cure for COVID-19. It is not
We can just go on and on about this, but I you know, I want to take so much airtime and just stating the obvious
The the claim basically that this listener repeats
Misconstrues the the Pfizer trial protocol the claim that people vaccinated against COVID-19
Can shed viral particles and affect other stems from a misunderstanding of documentation in the Pfizer trial
When asked for evidence to support the central claim in the live site article author Patrick Delaney pointed to a tweet from dr.
Simone gold
Claiming Pfizer itself had acknowledged people near vaccinated persons could be exposed by inhalation or skin contact
Goals April 29 tweet does not prove Pfizer told clinical trial participants. They could expose unvaccinated people to COVID-19
It shows a subsection of the company's trial protocol that lays out
What should happen if a participant becomes pregnant or comes in contact with a pregnant person?
That's common practice for clinical trials during clinical development of most products pregnant women are actively
Excluded from trials and if pregnancy does occur during the trial
The usual procedure is to discontinue treatment and drop the patient from the study. Although her pregnancy is typically followed to term
So while Pfizer's vaccine was not tested on pregnant individuals the company and public health authorities say it's safe for them to get it
so
Looking this over on a number of different sites. I haven't been looking at USA Today. There's another one on Reuters
Basically, the conclusion is that this is completely 100% false something
We probably already knew but here it is again
the claim that vaccinated people can shed viral particles from the vaccine and
Affect unvaccinated people as false based on our research and the research of so many others
None of the three COVID-19 vaccines approved for emergency use in the u.s.
Contain live coronavirus and spike proteins cannot be transmitted to another person meaning there's nothing for patients to shed
The claim is based on a misrepresentation of routine clinical trial protocol by a group of doctors that has previously spread misinformation about the pandemic
We should stop listening to them. You know, this does prove
II if you think about it, is that email works? We got their message
Yeah, yeah email works that's that's for sure Alex if you have something
Yeah, I mean bringing this all back down to you know a topic we often address on the show
Hacking and cyber security too. I think look
Assuming that some weaker version of this conspiratorial theory is is even true or let's just you know
Take a fact that that is true. Let's say you can still get the virus if you have the vaccine, right?
You know, they're 95% effective. You can get the virus. You can spread it to other people. But here what we're doing what the vaccine is
To put it in cyber security terms is a form of risk mitigation. We are the vaccine is essentially a compensating control for a security vulnerability here in our immune system.
Right, the vaccine is going to prevent a massive catastrophic breach, right? So
To bring it back to it another analogy, right? If you are a CISO and you implement
Let's say 2FA two-factor authentication on all of your users as inboxes
That doesn't mean that you're never ever going to have a breach. It doesn't mean you're 100% safe
It just means that you have taken some safety precautions some protective measures to reduce the risk that something bad is going to happen
To your company to your users in the future. Nothing's 100%
And and that's what the vaccine is as well. I mean it is a risk
Reducing measure for yourself for other people in and to a very large extent
I think we need to come to grips with the fact that we have a duty
To others not just to ourselves stop being such a damn narcissist
Yeah, I think that's kind of where we have gotten to as a society as a culture just thinking of me first
I want to drive the biggest vehicle and be aggressive and you know
basically take as much for for myself before anyone else gets anything and and
listen to whatever propaganda I
want to believe and
Facts be damned. Go ahead Rob
Yeah, and people have asked about this, especially when we talk about it on this program, um, excuse me
That like this is the hacker radio show off the hook. We're a bunch of hackers here
How does just going along with what everyone says about vaccines apply in the hacker mindset?
And I I would put forth that this is how we do things in the hacker world is you know
To compare it again to like infosec
When you need to be able to do something and you don't know how to do it
You go out there you find sources with the information you consider the sources you consider the information you find all the data that's out there
you go with the
Conclusions that make sense and the scientific conclusions with this make sense the sources which are you know?
trustable the sources which uh, which are
Staffed by people who know what they're doing and you know, maybe do this sort of thing for a living
Those are the people who have the uh, the best information at this point on how we can all
Do our part in in dealing with this in a responsible manner in a way that will you know?
Hopefully see an end to this thing for everybody
And uh, so yes, I I think it's very hacker like to go get your vaccines
Um and to wear your masks and to wash your hands and to do the things that we all need to be doing
To take care of ourselves and and one another. Yeah, you know, we are not blind
Hackers don't do that. Uh, we weigh the evidence. We look at the science. We experiment we we hear different circumstances
And sometimes we agree with uh with the advised protocol. It does happen
and I think alex's points about the computer security are are well taken because
Uh, there are many times where?
You know what you are advised to do is the right thing
There are other times when it's not the right thing when that's not the right thing
You know what you are advised to do is the right thing there are other times when it's not the right thing when that happens
We question and we have evidence to to support our our theses
um in this particular case, you can't argue with this and you can't argue with the science, but you'll just make a fool of yourself and
Um probably get sick in the process
Uh, this is something that obviously I mean, I I just I can't believe we have to have this conversation
But look around look at all the people who have suffered as a result of this
You know the millions who have died the the the many more who have uh been been um forever altered
in one way or another
It's not fake. It's not some kind of crazy conspiracy or um, or something the media made up. Uh, and if um,
If you find yourself being taken in by that what you're looking at is something
far more insidious
uh where uh people are able to be manipulated through uh powerful sources
And that's something to study that's something I think we really uh need to uh figure out a solution for yes, go ahead
I was thinking about vaccinations in general and how you know, people are kind of extrapolating
You know should no vaccine should be required and it was my mom
Uh did some volunteer work with elementary school students
And they were talking about vaccination and she said to them. Do you know what polio is?
And they had no idea
Because it was such a non-factor for them
And I think about how diseases that had basically been eradicated have come back
Because people refuse to vaccinate think about the measles outbreaks in the past few years
And are we ever going to get to a point where people?
Don't you know in 50 years? We're like will kids have heard of covid19?
Will it have gone away? Will it be a thing that people are hearing about?
And I can't imagine
people
Getting on board in the same way
That they did with the like if polio happened now
We'd all be in iron lungs
yeah, that uh
That definitely is a possibility given the current mindset. Um of just
Distrust and and believing what you want to believe in nothing else
I dare say there are people today who don't know what covid is because they refuse to acknowledge that it exists
And uh, that is that is simply shocking
So I guess you know the conclusion is uh, yeah, um
Listen, listen to the scientists. Listen to the doctors. They know what they're talking about
And get a vaccine so that you can do things
freely and um, uh, you know, enjoy life
Because we've all gotten it. We're all doing fine and we're all able to um to walk around and yeah
I know, you know people can claim they they have it, you know, they've gotten the vaccine and
um and and move around but
At great risk to themselves and to others and it's it's um, it's completely irresponsible. It's
Incredibly easy to get the vaccine now. Um
Go online, uh, their phone numbers public service announcements constantly
You can walk into a drugstore and probably get it today
And we'd love to hear from somebody
Who listened to us and said you know what?
I got the vaccine because I listened to what you were saying and it made sense
I know we'll get 50 angry letters from people accusing us of being shills for you know, one thing or another
but um
We really want to see people get past this and and and be healthy
um
Okay, uh u.s government wanted us to pass along, uh an announcement, uh that they were not in any way behind the disruption
Of that russian hacker ring's computer network in the wake of the cyber attack on the fuel line
um
the colonial pipeline
apparently, uh
They're they're a little worried that the hackers might think that they had something to do with it. Uh, the shuttering of dark side's operation
has led to um, um complaining by
I can't believe this complaining by hackers affiliated with the group who claim they have not been paid by the ring leaders
Wow, my my heart bleeds and these are not hackers. These are criminals. I'm reading the story
Uh from the washington post who really should know better but uh people who go around
Spreading ransomware and getting paid for it. Um, no, that's not what hackers are about in any way
right alex
Well, absolutely. I mean it's it's certainly one of these
all too frequent
instances of people
Conflating hacker and criminal yet yet again
but what what's interesting to me here though is for dark side, which is the ransomware group that was responsible for the
Colonial pipeline ransomware event what we talked about last week
Is is relevant here and that they were offering this as a service ransomware as a service
so these guys that were left in the dark are
essentially
The criminals that were performing the initial compromises of these victims the ones that would
Breach the systems maintain some kind of persistent access and then provide that access to the dark side group
So that they could then initiate ransomware that they could start encrypting their files in one way or another
perhaps moving around laterally finding, you know, the high grade or and then
Uh deploying ransomware on that particular network
but from from a legal perspective here, I mean this is uh, you know first day contracts law type of principles
is that
Even if they had some kind of agreement with dark side that they were going to get paid a certain percentage of the ransom
That was going to be paid for that ransomware event
That's an illegal contract. It's a contract for something illegal and you cannot enforce that
So, you know if rob has a contract for you know me to buy
Uh 10 pounds of cocaine hypothetically, of course
Uh and and I I renege on that contract he can't go into court and try to demand performance
Because it's an illegal activity. So these guys are are um what we would say in many years ago poop out of luck
Yeah, it's like it's like, you know trying to sue organized crime for not uh hiring more diverse
People to work for them. No, but they they just find other ways. I mean, that's that's why
That's how like, you know, you have gunplay or other forms of retribution in in
Illegal activity, right? Well, that's not right either
Um, anyway last thursday dark side announced that it lost access to its servers, which is where it housed and displayed data
uh stolen from its victims, um, and in addition and this is kind of sad, uh
They said in a blog post funds from the payment server belonging to us and our clients were withdrawn to an unknown account
I mean, I don't know who I'm supposed to feel bad for here
but it just means there's another set of criminals that are taking advantage of this set of criminals and the saga just keeps going on and
I guess there'll be a mr. Robot sequel or something like that
Um other hacker news hackers interrupted an israeli tv broadcast with a pro-palestinian message saying jerusalem is the eternal capital of palestine
All right, that's kind of interesting. So, um, that's one way to get the message out all of jerusalem
Well, I mean, you know, I guess so
Well, why not it's it's it's you know being taken in the other direction so um going big, huh?
You got to go big especially if you're gonna take over a tv channel if you take over a tv channel
You got to say a a strong yet simple message
And and reach a lot of people that way unfortunately can't get any more details other than one line on this story
So it's being um, it's being sub subdued a bit
Um, we're gonna have to continue
Talking about all this and other things on overtime
Let me tell people how to get to overtime because the hour just goes by so fast
Uh, we are on youtube and if you go to channel 2600, that's one word and the number 2600
You should find us there starting eight o'clock. If you go to 2600.com the website you will see
A little slide up on the top with a link that you can click on and you'll go there as well
And then you can call us
Uh at our special phone number, which is 802-321-4225
802-321-4225 which spells hack. Hey, I want to um,
I want to leave with um
A song that I think was was um, not
Given what it deserved at the eurovision awards this past weekend. It's the dutch
Entry actually from a surinamese singer songwriter named jongo mackroy. It's called birth of a new age. It's um,
Written about george floyd and about black lives matter
And it really is inspirational and I think it could be a hit everywhere it's played so
Let's see if that happens here
We will see you next week here on wbai and
We'll see you in a few minutes
on overtime
Good night
Your rhythm is
And they poison your ground
Names this ain't the end. No, it's the birth of a new age
You know
Like a hurricane
Prison your thoughts
Of your faith
We are the fruit adorning the legacy of every forgotten revolutionary born in resilience
Yeah
Me