to this radio station that has been on the side of the essential workers since
516-620-3602 is the number to call to show your support.
Now stay tuned for Off The Hook coming up.
And at 7 o'clock you are listening to WBAI New York.
It's time for Off The Hook.
It's time for Off The Hook.
And a very good evening to everybody. The program is Off The Hook.
Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this, what is it, Wednesday night.
Wednesday night, another exciting night in the Big Apple that we are not currently in
because of all the craziness. But we are here for another hour tonight talking about
technology, hacking, things going on in the street, things going on in our lives.
And I'm joined tonight by Kyle.
Of course, yeah, I'm here.
And we're going to open up this Skype channel, see if this works.
Yes, it shouldn't be too alarming.
All right. We have Rob, I believe.
Good evening.
And we have Gila.
Hello.
You two are in the same location just so people know the limits of our technology.
And Alex is someplace else.
Good evening, everyone.
All right, then. How is everyone? It's been two weeks since we've been on the air.
Same.
The same. OK. All right. Well, you know what? The country isn't the same.
It certainly changed in two weeks.
We have not been on the air since the insurrection began.
And now we're in a different place, which I think is just great.
Have you guys been a part of any of what's been going on?
We have.
There have been all sorts of demonstrations and protests and teach-ins going on.
We were at one in our neighborhood in Queens earlier this week,
and I think that was our first time venturing out to such a thing.
And it was interesting.
Everyone was masked up.
Everyone was doing what they could to social distance, but it was still a meaningful event.
It's interesting you say that because Kyle and I actually went to one in Suffolk County last night in Smithtown
and noticed the same thing.
People were masked except for the cops.
The cops weren't wearing masks.
And I have to wonder, is that policy?
Why would you go out there with literally a crowd of people and fellow cops and not wear masks?
It just seems like a dumb thing to do.
I think I might have answered my own question, why they're doing it.
But still, come on, people.
We care about you, too.
Why aren't you getting sick and getting the rest of us sick?
I've seen cops wear masks.
I know they can do it, so I don't get why they're not doing it in situations like this.
But it was kind of a weird experience that we had because we were walking around the entire town
looking for the demonstration because apparently we got there right after they marched someplace,
but nobody knew where they marched.
And the only way to find out where they were was to stand within earshot of cops
and overhear what was on their radio, and that gave us the updates we needed.
So we were able to basically follow based on what we were overhearing on the cop radio.
Some of the news coverage has needed to use scanners and be a little bit more in tune
with how the enforcement actions are changing and how they're corralling people.
It seemed like it took, from my perspective, the media a couple weeks to really gear up.
I mean, they were there right at the beginning of a lot of the coverage
when the precinct was set on fire and there were vans in New York
and just a lot of the initial tumult.
The coverage has been ongoing and, I think, consistent.
It's been really heartening to see the media bring some skill to just knowing where things are
and then getting that information out so people aren't caught off guard.
And, yeah, you can really learn a lot just by overhearing some radio,
whether it's a scanner or just next to officers that are standing around.
It's interesting because no matter where you go, you see this.
You see this kind of thing happening.
You see activism sprouting its head.
It's a wonderful thing to see.
We passed by driving just two people standing on a street corner holding up a sign that says Black Lives Matter.
And, of course, you honk, and it makes people so happy when you beep at them going by
and they're part of a demonstration.
And you feel happy, too, when you're a part of that demonstration.
Alex, I'm curious.
You're still in Pennsylvania where there's very few people.
Have you seen any sign, any indication of any of what's been going on in the country in your neck of the woods?
I have not at all.
I have seen literally zero.
But that's not to say that there is nothing.
It's just an indication that I haven't really been out of the house very much.
I'm being a good boy and staying in despite the fact that the county in which I'm in has officially reopened.
However, I was in New York last week on Monday.
I had an emergency situation where I had to drive from Pennsylvania into the city to my office.
That was occasioned by our beloved Con Edison.
Con Ed had decided to turn off the power to the ninth floor of my law firm's building, and that's where we're located.
And I think they just were operating under the erroneous assumption that since nobody's in the office, they can shut the power off.
They shut the power off.
About seven of my servers went down, and I had to rush in there and turn things back on.
I will tell you, though, that was Monday.
That was last Monday, which was really in the thick of it when it comes to the protests.
And what I saw was really quite interesting and a little bit scary.
I mean, my office is on 28th and Broadway.
And as soon as I got there to 28th and Broadway, after driving two hours, more than two hours…
Isn't that exactly where that barbecue place at Mr. Robot is, 28th and Broadway?
That's exactly right.
In fact, that was two seasons ago at Mr. Robot.
That was the red wheelbarrow, if I recall correctly.
That's where you were?
It's almost exactly.
The literal location of the red wheelbarrow that they used in Mr. Robot was an empty lot right next to my office.
All right, all right, guys.
Are you trying to play me for a fool or something?
Always.
Are you Mr. Robot?
Yeah.
Well, you know, I've been called worse things, so I'll take it.
Well, continue with your story.
So, in any event, I get to 28th and Broadway right in the aftermath of a scuffle between demonstrators and the NYPD.
And the NYPD was about 40 strong on that corner, all set up with riot gear.
They looked like they were waiting for hell to break loose.
And I didn't know what had just happened.
I literally just drove up.
I decided I didn't care one way or the other if I was going to get a parking ticket.
I didn't want to drive around.
I didn't want to have a valet in my car either.
So I parked there.
I went into the office and got down.
And things were just very, very empty.
This was the first time I'd been back to the city in three months.
And I'll tell you, something totally crazy happened to me while I was driving from my office.
After I had finished what I needed to do in the office, I was sitting southbound on 5th Avenue.
And as you may recall, 5th Avenue has traffic that only heads south in the city.
And I'm in the left lane of 5th Avenue, and then all of a sudden, there's a car racing northbound in that same lane.
Some lunatic is just driving the wrong way up 5th Avenue.
And I thought, oh, my God, is this a cop?
It wasn't a cop.
I had to swerve out of the way.
And that was just the foreshadowing of what was to come in the city.
Can I just ask you, Alex, how do you know it wasn't a cop?
Well, it could have been somebody deep undercover.
I mean, I caught a look at the guy as he passed by me when I had to swerve into the right lane.
It did not look like a cop unless it was somebody who was very seriously undercover.
And, you know, look, it could have been.
I don't know.
I mean, my assumption is that it wasn't a cop.
And this guy didn't look like he knew what the hell he was doing.
That's a cop.
Yeah, you got a cop there.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
Continue.
Yeah.
But in any event, speaking of cops, I started to head southbound towards the village where I lived to just go and check things out.
And the protest had started.
And people just started blowing red lights to get away from it.
Cops weren't doing anything.
It felt like complete bedlam over there.
Hold on.
I think Alex has a family situation going on.
Yeah, I did.
Yeah.
But in any event, I had to make a decision at that point.
I'd waited for the protest to go by 6th Avenue for about a half an hour sitting in traffic.
I got to 7th Avenue.
And I decided to sort of swing around, check out my neighborhood, check out my building.
Somebody had stolen the front wheel of my bike while I've been gone.
And, you know, that's not cool.
I've always had a bike out on, you know, in my neck of the woods for, you know, the last 10 years.
Yeah, but not for months at a time without being looked at.
But that stings.
That's like a certain betrayal.
I don't know.
It is because everybody knows me in my neighborhood.
They know it's my bike.
And it just feels like whoever did this, you know, wasn't from my neck of the woods.
And it really pissed me off.
Outside agitators stealing your bike wheels.
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who knows?
Maybe it was the cops.
Maybe they did.
I don't know.
Okay.
Well, anyway, so you lost a bike tire.
The thing that gets me is that you've stayed out of the city literally for months.
And you drive back in just to get into a traffic jam with all the demonstrators that were marching at that particular time.
It just seems like you couldn't have planned this better.
Well, it wasn't planned at all.
I didn't intend on doing this.
It was Con Edison that made me do it.
You know, I could have sent somebody else in.
But, you know, if you get a whole bunch of servers, all of which have their hard drives spinning constantly almost 24 hours a day,
and then all of a sudden the power goes out, there's a good likelihood that something is going to be amiss.
And I would have to go in anyway.
Thank God.
Everything was fine.
Everything rebooted all right.
But I had to make a decision at that point.
And the decision was do I stay in the city at my place in the West Village or do I get the hell out?
And I checked the traffic to head back to Pennsylvania.
It was the shortest period of time for me to get back here that I'd ever seen.
Seventh Avenue was completely empty.
And I took the chance to get the hell out.
And I'm sort of glad that I did.
I think if I was younger and I didn't have a wife and kids and responsibilities and things, I would have stayed and possibly gone outside.
But I got out of there.
But let me tell you, it was an experience being back in the city.
It felt a lot different to me.
And it felt more dangerous in a sense.
Not dangerous in the sense of, you know, the potential to get sick, but just dangerous in the sense that the people that were outside probably had nowhere else to go.
And I felt like I wouldn't have wanted to be outside at night in my neighborhood last Monday.
I'll put it that way.
Well, if I could suggest one thing, they have these little switches that you can control remotely that will simply power everything back on.
So you don't have to drive across country to turn on a server.
It's a great time to be alive, huh?
Next time Con Ed does this to you, you can simply cycle the power and see what happens.
And only drive in if something doesn't come back.
Yeah.
These things would be useful and it would be the perfect scenario, right, to avoid having to go back.
But I feel like home automation and tools like that have been around for like 20 years.
It just takes sort of a little bit of time and, you know, making it one of those side projects that you eventually get to.
But maybe that will help.
Well, I want to get into a little more about what's been going on in the streets of this country, in fact, of the world.
But first I have to point out that we are in the final – I think this is the final week of the BAI fundraiser.
I want to thank everybody who called in last week.
We had a good response – well, actually not last week, the week before that.
Two weeks ago we had a good response and hopefully we'll get a good response tonight.
This is the last time we're going to be offering these items for your support here at WBAI.
Imagine a city, imagine a country without WBAI where we talk about things that are going on,
where we see what's happening in the streets of America, the changes that are taking place quickly.
You need a voice.
You need an outlet to express all of this, to give an outlet to people to express their opinions,
to have the conversation, to debate.
It's so important and so many places don't have that.
So keeping WBAI on the air is so key, so important.
So our phone number is 516-620-3602.
And by calling that number, you will be connected to somebody who will ask how much you want to pledge.
And if you desire a thank you gift from us, we have several.
We have the Hacker Tote Bag.
You want to describe that, Kyle?
Yeah, it's black cotton, 100% cotton.
It's 15 1⁄2 by 15 standard sort of tote bag size, what you might expect.
And it has our unique monochrome white ink government seal.
This is an iconic 2600 pattern that actually debuted on a hoodie, the government seal hoodie.
And it has since donned T-shirts, yes, black T-shirts, and now the black Hacker Tote Bag.
And this can be yours at the $25 level.
So it looks like you're a government official, but in actuality, it says the Hacker Quarterly.
That's right.
And the eagle has some cuffs, some cash, and a keyboard, which, you know, it's a bit of a, I don't know.
Let's say a bit of a joke, but also quite serious.
It addresses what you might mistake for the olive branches and the arrows on the great seal of the United States.
So our version has been updated a little bit.
It speaks to some issues hackers care about.
So that's for a pledge of $25, the Hacker Tote Bag.
We also have the 2600 three-year subscription.
That's where you'll get the actual paper magazine for the next three years.
2600 comes out quarterly, talks all about computer hacking, latest in technology, privacy invasions, consumer protection, all that kind of thing.
That's for a pledge of $50, which is less than what a three-year subscription actually costs.
So you'd be supporting WBAI and getting 2600 for the next three years.
And finally, we have for a pledge of $150, the Hacker Digest Full Set and Lifetime subscription.
This is our most popular item because what this is, is all the issues of 2600 magazine that go back to 1984 in digital form, PDF, non-DRM.
High resolution.
Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
So that's for a pledge of $150, go back to 1984 and continues on into the future.
Once a year, you will receive another PDF for the previous year.
So that's for a pledge of $150, 516-620-3602.
I think I just figured out, I'm communicating off air.
We're low when the Skype people are up, so I'm going to turn them down and you'll hear me get louder.
This is how our board works right now.
So that solves the problem.
Interesting.
All right, we're just learning about this now, learning on the air, talking to all different people at once.
We have to figure this out.
I think it's also related to this channel being up over here.
You blame my computer?
No one knows what I'm talking about.
Okay, so I'll turn my computer down.
I'll turn the Skype people back up.
So we get lower again when I do that.
So it's totally bad.
Okay, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
It's their fault.
So basically, the way we can solve this is the Skype people, you can see them.
I can't.
When they wave their hands at you and they want to speak, you cue them.
I'll turn them up at that point.
But until then, we can't hear them because they make us low.
I'm sorry, folks, for having to have the technical conversation over the air, but these are hard times and we have to do this.
I feel like we can get past this.
I feel like we are.
516-620-3602, please show your support for WBAI.
It is super important.
And I'll let our friends on Skype say a few words about WBAI and why people should call.
Absolutely.
And if you're not into calling, you can also get on WBAI, give to WBAI.org, which is WBAI's website for supporting the station.
You can pull down on the menu which show is your favorite show on WBAI.
We would hope you would choose off the hook.
And you can see these premiums.
We've got the Hacker Digest full set and lifetime subscription for $150 or more.
Three years of the physical magazine, 2600, the Hacker Quarterly for $50 or more, and the Hacker Tote Bag for $25 or more.
You could also text WBAI to the short code 41444 if you'd rather just get a link that way that you can use to donate directly.
And all these goodies are excellent things.
2600 is a wonderful magazine.
I just re-upped my own subscription.
But also the most important thing that you get for supporting WBAI is what we're doing now, is this station.
Not just our program, but all the programs that WBAI brings to the air, voices that would otherwise go unheard but are worth hearing.
And what we've been doing since 1960 is what you're hearing now.
It's giving honest information, like just sharing what we know and what we do and how we do it and all the various ways we do.
Without corporate, without commercial interference, unfiltered, and just doing what we can to bring that to you.
So if you'd like to keep us doing that, text WBAI to 41444 or go to give to WBAI.org.
That's give and the numeral 2, WBAI.org.
Also, a friendly reminder that a gift of at least $25 makes you a member of WBAI.
And thus enables you to do awesome things like vote in station bylaw votes.
If we want to be able to make sure that the station doesn't get taken over again by outside influences,
the best thing we can do is make sure that you are a member of the station, that you can vote for the Pacifica bylaws.
We're not going to tell you how to vote, but do what you can to keep us on the air.
Also, fun fact, a gift of $25 gets you a WBAI tote bag.
So for those of you who are doing the math, $25 gets you the Hacker tote bag.
$25 gets you the WBAI tote bag.
Two tote bags for the price of one.
I think it's one or the other, actually.
Oh, I was so excited.
Well, just to clear it up, it's $25 for the Hacker tote bag, $50 for the three-year subscription to 2600,
$150 for the lifetime subscription to the Hacker Digest.
And you can pledge more, certainly, and get a whole lot more.
And you can also call 516-620-3602 and ask what else is available,
because there are plenty of things that the friendly people there will offer.
And also, there are different ways you can pledge.
And I believe you can also text.
Is that right, Gila?
That's correct.
You can text WBAI to the short code 41444.
You'll get an automated response telling you how to donate.
Another thing to keep in mind is that you can also become a BAI buddy.
If we've learned anything in this world the last few months,
it's that the things we can rely on are really, really helpful.
And if you become a BAI buddy, that is reliable monthly donations to the station.
The more people who become BAI buddies, the less we have to do pledge drives,
because if we have more reliable donations coming in, the better off we are.
So consider becoming a BAI buddy for a low monthly cost, which will help the station keep going.
Yeah, and that gives you the advantage of not having to manage as much when we are doing the fundraisers.
You'll know that you're already participating.
You already are a part of the Pacific Network, and you're supporting the station.
So I'm so glad you reminded us of that aspect of the station membership programs,
because the buddies are really, really helpful when we're trying to cover between fundraising events like this one
and overhead and infrastructure.
The operational costs don't stop, as everyone knows it.
And we want to hear from our listeners.
We want to know that people have been calling 516-620-3602 during this hour.
This is the last week of the fundraiser, from what I've been told, and hopefully that's true.
Hopefully we reach all the goals that we need to, because WPAI has never been a more vital source of information.
The coronavirus, the uprisings in the street, it's an interesting time, and more interesting times are ahead.
And we're going to get through them together.
That is the only way we're going to get through them.
One thing I would like to mention about WPAI is the community nature of this is just so important right now.
Not just the hacker community that we have listening to our show and the listener community here,
but the fact that WPAI represents a community of progressives in New York during this time of a global pandemic
and what, quite frankly, like you said, Emanuel, amounted to an insurrection over the last two weeks
on account of police brutality around the nation.
There is something to be said for telling it like it is, without censorship,
without having to rely on the quote-unquote Main Street media, without a beagle queen in the back.
Really? A dog now, too? You got a dog there as well? Wow. Okay. Go ahead.
She's telling it like it is, too. I mean, that's Cleo just agreeing with me, I think wholeheartedly, 100%,
that WPAI is going to be unfiltered news, unfiltered reports of what's happening from the street,
from the ground level, from the perspective of activists, from the perspective of community leaders,
from the perspective of people like us, like the hacker community.
You're not going to get that anywhere else.
The fact that it exists in 2020 is a bizarre anomaly that is due entirely to the support of our listeners for the last 60 years.
That's a freaking miracle. Let's keep it going.
Please pledge to the station, become a WPAI buddy like Keela had mentioned, or the hacker tote bag is awesome,
the WPAI tote bag is awesome, but please support our station because it is so important that we stay on the air.
We need you. Thank you.
I live for the bizarre anomalies, you know, so many times.
And in addition, I don't know if you mentioned the WPAI face mask.
That's another thing that's being offered. If you call 516-620-3602, just ask them about it.
They'll have all the information.
While supplies last.
Yes.
I hear those are a very popular item, so you may be on the tail end of that.
Yeah, but supplies can be reordered.
That's true. Well, let's check, but definitely call in, and if you're interested, ask about that gift as well.
Absolutely.
Now, speaking of bizarre anomalies, we should talk about hope,
because that is certainly a bizarre anomaly that exists in the most trying of times.
That's the Hackers on Planet Earth conference that is not taking place in person this summer, as pretty much nothing is,
but we decided to do the best we can with what we have, and the response so far has been nothing short of just super inspiring.
This community never fails to teach me things and to just give me hope for just the future.
We have expanded the conference from three days to nine days because it's in a virtual environment.
We want to give something back.
We want to make this an exciting time.
We want to make this a highlight of the summer, and it's going to run from July 25th all the way to August 2nd,
and we are encouraging people to submit their speaker ideas, talks, panels.
If you have something related to technology or the hacker culture or just something you would like several thousand people,
or actually many more times than that when you count everybody in the world who is going to be tuning in,
if you want to share that with people, that is something that you should consider being a part of.
All the details are at www.hope.net, and click on the speaker button.
Also, Slash Participate has a really good organization of all the different ways right in one spot.
There are a lot of ways.
We have people, volunteers of all sorts doing all kinds of different things with workshops, with talks,
with reaching out to the press, with organizing all kinds of logistical things, setting up the hardware and the software.
It's a real challenge, and it feels, I've got to say, having been involved in the HOPE Conference up until now,
it feels like a HOPE Conference.
The environment is different, but the excitement is the same, and that is what is so incredible to me,
that we can actually pull this off and still be in all the corners of the globe.
That's what's going to be cool about this is that you'll be a part of the conference from wherever you happen to be,
and you'll see people coming to you from everywhere, all different places,
that they wouldn't have been able to do before because, well, everyone had to be crammed into the Hotel Pennsylvania,
and since we can't do that this year, well, we're going to use the entire world instead.
So there's still time, not much time, probably about a couple of weeks for you to submit your speaker ideas,
your talks, panels, debates, whatever it is you want to have.
If you're a musician and you want to perform something from wherever you happen to be,
we're reserving the late-night hours for those kinds of things.
If you have other ideas, too, we want to hear from you.
You can write to us at hope.net.
That's one address you can use.
Or you can just go to the website, www.hope.net, and read all about it there.
There are going to be all kinds of changes, announcements.
We're going to have nine different keynote speakers because it's a nine-day conference.
Who ever heard of nine keynote speakers?
And if you have suggestions, we have some locked in and others not yet.
So if you have suggestions on who you think would make a good keynote speaker, definitely write to us.
You can write to us, hope at hope.net, or here at the radio show, oth at 2600.com.
Yeah, and the ability to bring in all the different kinds of content
and creative things we would have in a physical form, it will change things.
And we're navigating and we're going to be supporting presenters,
people who are involved in workshops, artists and musicians.
We're going to be helping people as much as we can,
but we're really trying to get the word out.
So if you maybe don't have anything yet, but you know someone who does want to share an idea
or share their hacker space or tell people about a social action
or some sort of legal aspect that affects telecommunications and affects computing
and the internet at large, we're really interested in hearing from them.
We want to give them an opportunity.
This is nine days, nine days straight.
It's amazing of broadcasts with short sections where people can ask questions live.
So any and all participation is really strongly, strongly encouraged.
We want to get that call out there.
And just please, if you do nothing else, tell a friend, tell a young person or student
who maybe wants to try public speaking.
Give them a sense of what hope is and refer them to this,
because we're really excited to have a lot of participation and a lot of different voices.
And by the way, by participating as an attendee, by either holding on to your ticket
or getting a new ticket, that ensures that we survive, that the magazine survives,
that the future conferences survive, that even the radio show survives,
because, well, we need to be able to have roofs over our heads
to continue doing all the things we do.
And this year has been, it's been insane.
It really has been insane.
One thing that's happened, we've lost a lot of our sales of the magazine
because distributors shut down, Barnes & Noble shut down.
But now, with the hacker spirit, we have decided to try something else.
We had the opportunity to get the magazine, get this, into grocery stores,
mostly in the western half of the United States.
So places like Ralph's and, what was that other one, Albertson's?
Albertson's and Safeway, I believe.
Safeway.
Fred Meyer as well.
Wow.
So we're showing up literally on the checkout stand where TV Guide sometimes is,
except now it's 2,600.
So that, that's kind of amazing that this is even happening.
Kroger.
Yeah, let's see if it works.
It might be a disaster.
It might cause more insurrection.
But you've got to try different things.
When adversity rears its ugly face, you just have to try something new.
And that's what we're trying to do on all levels this year.
And the support of the people out there,
you're the only reason we're going to make it through this.
And we will forever, forever be in your debt for that.
It's that spirit of adapting and thinking creatively,
thinking of unusual ways to route around problems.
And that is the hacker spirit.
And that's how we are available.
So, yeah, look out for us in your essential grocery store.
Skype people, any comments before we move on to some stories?
I am just fascinated by how the focus in general has been heading this way,
even before this pandemic hit.
But people have gone from like just having subscriptions to a whole cable
channel for one show or, you know,
buying this whole thing so they could get this one part of it,
to supporting people directly who do things that they appreciate.
Like people go on crowdfunding sites to, you know,
donate to business ideas and products that they want to see.
They go on sites like Patreon and things like that to support artists and
creators directly that they want to do.
And this has been like such a game changer in the general world of people
out there trying to make a living with the things they do.
But it's also what we've been doing to keep this station on the air for 60
years. It's like the simplest idea.
We don't need to get money from somebody else to tell you what kind of soda
you should be drinking.
Just what we do is we keep everything going here because listeners like you
think it's worth it to donate to help us keep doing what we do.
We do what we do. We do the work we do.
We do the magazine, the conference,
and this radio show directly for the people who appreciate it and keep them
going. So if you call 516-620-3602,
or go to give to WBAI.org or text WBAI to 41444,
you can be part of that.
You can be one of the people who keep this station doing what it's been doing
for so long and what really there's no other sane way to get done.
We were talking before about getting information from the police as far as
where demonstrations were being held by listening to their radios.
Many of us listen to their radios in the comfort of our own homes by simply
going through a scanner.
But did you know that the NYPD has plans to encrypt their radios?
And those plans are set for this year.
Now, they've said, and this was from a story a few months ago,
that they likely will not move forward with encryption for at least another
year. But basically, the scary thing about that,
the scary thing about that is that this encryption will cut off all media groups
who currently monitor police radio feeds for breaking news.
It'll cut off all oversight of what's going on,
what kind of conversation is going back and forth between command headquarters
and people in squad cars.
And while cops will say this is something that people have no right to listen to
and it's for our own safety, I don't think that's true at all.
I think we've never been in a time where we need more accountability.
And this is a very serious danger that is being thrust upon us
in the immediate future.
It's happened in several places already.
I'm not familiar with places that have encryption right now,
but I do know that the radios go silent.
And those of you who are out there monitoring,
finding out what's going on or just listening in,
you're going to be out of luck if this goes forward.
Yeah, and it's interesting because we as citizens,
we're the owners really of that spectrum,
and especially news organizations trying to discern where to go
to cover something that is in the public interest.
When they initiate this digital system, they implement that.
That means that the transmissions will be indiscernible over the air
without keys.
And the likelihood that they're motivated to give keys,
probably about half as motivated or less than giving out press passes
in the first place.
But I highly doubt the police department is going to be really keen
on giving these keys to news organizations
because what if they're copied?
You'll just slip down this slope of just being...
What if they're copied? We'll be able to hear it like we can now.
Exactly, as we ought to be.
You know what the irony of all this...
The irony of all this is that if you go out there and you use encryption,
that's seen as a danger.
Law enforcement has to be able to hear what you're saying,
but law enforcement doesn't want you to hear what they're saying.
That is a real danger.
Yeah, and it's a double standard.
Yeah, I mean, that's exactly right, Emmanuel.
I mean, this really turns the encryption debate on its head.
And let me tell you, this listening to the police can...
It doesn't just work against them.
As somebody who's had a radio frequency scanner since he was 15 years old
and been listening to the police for about 27 years,
I have to say that listening to them has always given me
some measure of comfort and heart,
and hearing how they handle very stressful situations calmly and coolly.
And hearing real professionals do their work as law enforcement agents
was pretty interesting.
I don't think that this is something that the police should willingly give up.
On the other hand, two points in counterpoints here that I want to make.
When I lived in London and I couldn't listen to the police
on a radio frequency scanner, it felt weird to me.
It felt like I was missing something
and that something was being deliberately kept from me,
and frankly, because it was.
And as an American, it feels like hiding those communications
and preventing that form of transparency is particularly un-American to me.
Yeah, but Alex, let's be real here.
That kind of transparency, it's not an American thing
because the police departments hide behind all kinds of anonymity constantly.
A cop is seen doing something horrendous and his name is withheld.
A cop kills somebody, he can go home to his wife and kids
and get the story straight with the other cops that were involved.
Nobody else gets that kind of shielding from justice.
That's different.
There are a number of mechanisms, both legal and technical,
that we go into that shield police from responsibility.
But the radio waves have always been a place where the public felt like
there was some transparency with respect to policing.
Taking away yet another layer of transparency is a terrible thing.
It's going to make people trust the police even less at a time
when they should be trying to increase transparency and increase trust.
Now, having said that, one other counterpoint that I want to make is
I was listening to the police last weekend during the protests
and in the throes of the protests, and having listened to them
for 27 years on a frequency scanner, I have never heard cops panic before.
When I was listening, and from Pennsylvania I was listening through the internet,
actually through my phone on 5-0 scanner, the app.
Like a repeater system?
Yeah, exactly.
They were panicked when they were discussing the protests around 12th Avenue
and 12th Street and Broadway.
They were panicked when they were discussing what was happening down in Soho.
I've never heard that before in my life.
And it really made me reconsider what I was watching on CNN and MSNBC
relative to what I was hearing on a police scanner.
So I think it would be absolutely terrible for them
to take that level of transparency away.
Well, you also have to think what a bunch of people who are this heavily armed
and protected panicking at the same time.
Well, actually, you know what?
It does kind of explain what we've been seeing.
Those are the actions of people who are panicking
and have lost control of what they're doing.
But having access to that information, to that raw data, that is so important.
That is something that, especially in New York, we need to hold on to.
So this is a fight that I don't see being talked about anywhere else as far as transparency.
Well, the radio waves are pretty damn transparent if they're unencrypted,
and we need to hold on to that.
For the NYPD, we cannot let them just go silent
and have secret communications amongst themselves only
that we are not privy to in any way.
Yeah, of all the times that they could be looking at reducing the police's accountability,
transparency, and all those things, right now is not the time.
Read The Room.
Yes, we know your audience.
Speaking of reading The Room, did you hear about this?
IBM has decided to end commercial sales of facial recognition,
and basically they're talking about spreading all kinds of other places.
Amazon and Microsoft, according to this story,
remain the only two major tech companies actively attempting to sell facial recognition software
to governments and to law enforcement.
There might be late breaking news.
There is late breaking news.
I have it in the next sheet there.
Okay.
Amazon has just announced moments before the show,
apparently they wanted to get it on the air,
that it will suspend police use of its controversial facial recognition technology for one year
after advocates and workers slammed the company for supporting the George Floyd protesters
while still promoting its technology to police.
Now, their software is called Recognition, spelled with a K,
and they've been selling that to police departments across the country,
but numerous studies have found bias in the software
that disproportionately target black people and other darker-skinned people.
Just last week, Amazon made statements against police brutality and systemic racism
amid protests against police brutality that erupted after the death of George Floyd.
Now, this rung hollow to many advocates,
as AWS had still been working with police departments,
while studies have shown that black people are more likely to be stopped, searched, or killed by police.
Also, the ACLU found in 2018 that the software incorrectly matched 28 members of Congress
with people who had been arrested for a crime,
and that false matches were disproportionately of people of color,
including six members of the Congressional Black Caucus.
So, in that sense, I guess, you know,
the software is right in line with the police departments and the status quo of the country,
but still not something we should accept.
A year, that's what they're suspending it for.
Not good enough, but it's a start, and it's something that we need to keep the pressure on.
And the thing to note about facial recognition is, like you said,
the tech just is not that good yet.
It's still early days for facial recognition.
It doesn't work well all the time.
It especially doesn't work well on people of color.
But if you give, like, say, the police department a tool and tell them that this is what this does,
they'll just take things that it says as read without questioning the information,
and they will let the machine make the decisions.
And that is really dangerous.
And I think we have to realize the potentials of what's going on right now
as well as be realistic about what we can actually do with it right now.
And neither of those are good things if, like, letting law enforcement and authorities
and people like that overreach with it.
Yeah, and I think a really close look at some of these systems that we don't get to look at, right?
There are black boxes that, oh, you know, the algorithms at Facebook
and all of these different sorts of companies are, like, the most closely guarded things.
So when you're training these kinds of AI systems with data that is human
and essentially will draw upon data sets that are essentially human,
that were built by humans that are probably statistically based on human structures and systems,
and at this moment we're sort of critiquing some of those systems,
how can you really trust that AI to compensate for biases that are ingrained in how it was taught in the first place?
Exactly.
One really interesting aspect to this is when we went to this protest event,
everyone was wearing a mask, and before this pandemic, wearing a mask to a protest would get you hauled off.
There are laws on the books that you cannot be masked in public.
You cannot be disguising your identity at these things.
But now that that's de rigueur and everyone's wearing their masks, they can't do anything about that,
which meant that I think more people are comfortable protesting, given that they're going to be masked.
It is a weird time, I'll say that.
Yes, you're supposed to wear masks now to protest,
but I still get the feeling that if you wear the kind of activist mask that they're familiar with,
they might still come after you, and certainly they don't like religious coverings if it's a certain religion.
We've seen that in Europe as well.
Okay, so continuing along the lines of changing things and putting pressure on the status quo,
there are all kinds of monuments and memorials that bear the names of men who fought to preserve slavery
and uphold white supremacy, and they're facing a reckoning as demonstrations against police brutality
have erupted across the country in response to the killing of George Floyd by a Minneapolis police officer.
This from the New York Times.
The protests have also reignited a debate within the military community.
Over 10 army bases named after Confederate leaders.
I did not know about this.
Did not know this.
Now, basically, as recently as February, the military said it had no intention of changing those names.
That's according to the military website Task and Purpose.
Now, they backtracked on that position.
Pentagon officials said on Monday that Secretary of Defense Mark Esper and Secretary of the Army Ryan McCarthy
were open to a bipartisan discussion on the topic of removing Confederate names from the bases.
The announcement, first reported by Politico, came as each of the services had started to contend
with many longstanding practices and allegations of racial bias that have gone unaddressed.
The Pentagon officials said Esper and McCarthy wanted Congress, the White House,
and other government officials to weigh in.
That, according to CNN, shifting the responsibility onto lawmakers.
But today, President Trump shut the whole thing down by saying,
my administration will not even consider the renaming of these magnificent and fabled military installations.
Just to give you a brief outline of some of them.
April 11th, 1861, Brigadier General Pierre Beauregard, commander of Confederate forces in the Charleston area,
demanded that Major Robert Anderson of the Union Army surrender his command at Fort Sumter in South Carolina.
Anderson refused. Beauregard opened fire and the Civil War ensued.
Today, Beauregard has a U.S. Army base in Louisiana named after him.
Anderson does not.
He's not alone. At least nine other major army installations are named for generals who led Confederate troops,
a practice the Army has defended for years based on the assumption that they have significant place in our military history.
You know what, Army? You know who else has a major significance in our military history? Hitler.
I don't see any statues or military bases named after him, but he sure ranks up there.
Among the former states of the Confederacy, Texas, Alabama, Georgia, and North Carolina,
each have one army base named for a Confederate general, according to a 2017 Congressional Research Service report.
And I am so ignorant, I did not know any of this. I had no idea.
The site was Fort Benning, Fort Benning in Georgia.
The namesake is Confederate General Henry Louis Benning.
They want to rename that, obviously, suggesting Sergeant First Class Alwyn Cash,
a black soldier, Georgia native, who died in 2005 after his Bradley fighting vehicle hit a roadside bomb in Iraq and erupted in flames.
He returned to the vehicle three times while he himself was on fire to rescue his men who were trapped inside.
Sounds better than a Confederate person.
Army Master Sergeant Roy P. Benavidez's name has been suggested as a replacement for Fort Hood in Killeen, Texas,
one of the largest U.S. military installations in the world, named after Confederate officer John Bell Hood.
And that's absent from Fort Hood's official history page.
It just goes on and on, but I literally had no idea that army bases, military installations were named after Confederate soldiers.
It makes absolutely no sense.
And there's Fort Bragg, of course, is another big one, down in, I believe, it's now North Carolina, the home of the 82nd Airborne.
And in fact, if I recall correctly, the lyrics from the Johnny Cash song,
Ragged Old Flag, it was Robert E. Lee Beauregard and Bragg and the south wind blew hard on that ragged old flag.
So Johnny Cash fan, you know, those three generals are actually, you know, in the lyrics to Ragged Old Flag about bringing the country together.
So, yeah, I mean, look, it's it's I think it's a fascinating time.
We live in having worked in the Department of Defense and for the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces.
Changing those names, I could see there being a lot of resistance to it, both on the right and the left, though, to play devil's advocate,
because those names have become so synonymous with the divisions that they house, like Fort Benning, Georgia, is where people go to jump school.
And after they go to jump school, then they you know, maybe they join the 82nd Airborne over at Fort Bragg.
So, you know, I'd be curious as to as to whether members of the armed forces want these changes themselves.
You know, changing a name, I don't think is that big a deal.
People change their names. Sports teams change their names.
Countries change their names and we move on because we're supposed to be moving forward.
And this is something I think most people maybe most people knew about this.
Maybe not. Maybe like me, they didn't. But I think when most people find out about it, they say, yeah, that's not right.
There's something better. We can name this after. And I think this is this is a great example.
Did you know, by the way, that there are Confederate monuments in New York?
I had no idea about this in the Bronx, for instance.
There are busts of Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee on the Hall of Fame for great Americans at Bronx Community College.
Now, the college plans to remove the statues. I'm not sure if they did it yet, but I didn't know about that.
Hastings on Hudson, Hastings on Hudson, Confederate marker at Mount Hope Cemetery, Elmira,
UDC monument at Woodlawn National Cemetery dedicated to Confederate soldiers who died in Elmira prison.
They're under 24 hour guard, by the way, in Brooklyn, right in our hometown here.
A tree at St. John's Episcopal Church bears a plaque installed by UDC in 1912,
reading this tree was planted by CSA General Robert Edward Lee while stationed at Fort Hamilton.
Well, that plaque was removed in 2017. So there is progress.
But you know what? In Fort Hamilton, there's General Lee Avenue, there's Stonewall Jackson Drive.
Now, Andrew Cuomo has requested the army unsuccessfully to have those streets renamed.
But maybe that's a good place to start. Renaming those streets, pressuring the army to do that.
They want to have a dialogue. Let's start there. We're out of time.
And I'm sorry about that. We just went by so fast, but we will be back.
I think we'll be back next week. I look forward to it.
If if we are, please continue to call 516-620-3602.
Pledge whatever you can afford and write to us.
O.T.H. at 2600 dot com. Good night.
When the judge called it, you defend it.
It come with a long tail and it down to you in a few short minutes.
Because when your girl comes through for a visit, I tell you how she's pregnant.
Boss him off a nigga. Peep the top of the shit and back.
They need a loan for your home, but to get it.
And all you know, kids doing is getting bigger.
Try not to raise them around these wild niggas.
Because when I go, you got to see in a manicure and hand out like, hey, nigga.
I'm telling your wife is starting up some fire.
We're going to ruin your life.
Because when the gangsta ain't doing it right, another gangsta decided what to do with his life.
Life
is not what these famous niggas doing.
Beef is what George Bush would do in a fight Beef is Ms. Wallace, still don't know who shot Biggie
And beef is well done herb, not being here with me
When a soldier ends his life with his own gun Beef is trying to figure out what to tell his son
Beef is oil prices and geopolitics Beef is Iraq, the West Bank, and Gaza Strip
Some beef is big and some beef is small But y'all call beef, it's not beef at all
Knowing this real life is happening every day
And it's realer than the songs that you gave to K-Slay
Walking down the road with this gun in your waist
Young and too bad
Walking down the road with this gun in your waist
Young and too bad
Walking down the road with this gun in your waist
Young and too bad
Walking down the road with this gun in your waist
Young and too bad
The next meeting of the local station board will be Wednesday