Hey, this is Smokey Robinson, and you're listening to WBAI 99.5 FM, New York.
And you are listening to WBAI New York. The time is 7 o'clock, time once again for Off the Hook.
The time is 7 o'clock, time once again for Off the Hook.
The time is 7 o'clock, time once again for Off the Hook.
And a very good evening to everybody. The program is Off the Hook.
Manuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
Joined tonight by Mike. Hi there.
Rob T. Firefly. Good evening.
And we don't know where Bernie S. is.
Presumably Pennsylvania somewhere.
Somewhere, but he's not here right now.
We're searching the telephone for him, I guess it looks like.
I'm not. Hang on.
What is that noise?
It's just going to take me a second. Hang on.
I've been all the way in today. I've been trying just to get past one level of this stupid game.
There we go.
But I keep crashing into the damn pipes. You see this?
You see it, right?
It looks like a green thing and a blue thing.
Yeah, it's this flappy... You distracted me, Mike.
It's this flappy bird game where...
Okay, what you're supposed to do is you've got this bird, right?
And what you do is you tap your smartphone, okay?
But the thing is the pipes are vertical, right?
And when you hit the screen, your bird goes up and down.
It's a very unnatural type of movement.
So you have to somehow tap it in just the right way.
See, I made it through there, but then I crashed into the pipe.
You have to go up and down, but somehow move horizontally at the same time.
This is ruining my life.
It's really hard to drive and do this, too, by the way.
I have a solution to your problem.
What's your solution, Mike?
If you go to the settings, there's an add remove apps area.
And you can click on flappy birds and then remove.
And then you won't have this problem anymore.
Yeah, but how would I play it then?
You trade one problem for another.
I have been up all night trying to get past two.
I've gotten two.
That's the most I've ever been able to get on this thing.
And you can't get it anymore.
You can't get it anymore because the guy who made it took it off the stores.
You can't get this game.
And everyone's going berserk over this thing.
Flappy bird, yeah.
This game has become a global phenomenon.
I'm going to try and talk and play at the same time so I can kill a bunch of birds, literally.
It's a global phenomenon.
It's soared to the top of the charts in both Apple's App Store, Google Play.
It was actually released last year, but apparently it became well-known now.
Mr. Dong Nguyen is the creator in Vietnam of this game.
He said it was just too addictive.
He didn't intend for people to play the game for hours at a time, as many gamers appear to have done.
And he says that was the main negative, so he decided to take it down.
Flappy bird has delighted and enraged players.
Who's been delighted by this?
Has anyone been delighted by this?
Because I have yet to be delighted by it.
I've seen a lot about this on the internet, but you're the only person I know to have actually admitted to playing it.
Oh, I would have made two.
Yeah.
Go ahead. No, I'll listen.
Well, I'm just saying you're the only one I know to admit to have played it, so maybe you're our best source of information on this.
Not only do I admit I've played it, I admit I'm playing it right now.
Well, it's hard to deny it with you holding the phone to the mic so we can all hear.
But yeah, it's hard to drive and play this at the same time, but you have to, because when else are you going to have time to do it?
Except when you're on a highway someplace.
Well, you could also play it when you're on the radio.
There's all kinds of bad options.
That's what I'm doing.
Now, various players have written unusually extensive reviews of the game on Apple's App Store detailing the misery they say Mr. Dung's creation has inflicted.
One reviewer wrote, I would in a heartbeat sell my soul to Satan just to have never downloaded this app.
Some players, believe it or not, have listed their iPhones for sale on an online auction on eBay, noting that they were preloaded with Flappy Bird.
You see, I got this over the weekend.
When I heard that it was going to be taken down, I downloaded it and I have it.
You can't do this, Mike.
Rob, you can't do this.
You cannot get this game because it's not on the store anymore.
You can't get it.
I have it.
You don't have it.
I'll just have to take it off your phone and do some trickery that way.
Yeah, well, you'll have to take the phone out of my cold dead hand to do that in the first place.
All right, if that's what it takes.
Now, an iPhone, and get this, this could be significant, one iPhone was listed for $134,295 on eBay.
Others are a bit more modestly priced and, of course, Flappy Bird being mentioned as the additional inducement for potential buyers.
And the guy who wrote this game was making $50,000 a day in advertising revenue and he decided to walk away from it.
I have two questions.
Yeah.
The first is. . .
How do you get through the pipes?
I don't know, Mike.
I'm trying to figure that out right now.
It's hard.
It takes skill.
It really does.
All right.
That was my first question.
The second question is if you've forgotten to remind our listeners that this is a fun drive.
Yeah, I'll get to that, Mike.
I'll get to that.
Priorities, okay?
Getting level two, I think, is more important right now than anything else.
But here's the other thing.
If you're on eBay, by the way, they've really thrown a monkey wrench into all this.
They are now telling you that you can't sell any phone that has not been formatted.
Yeah.
Apparently, it's illegal to sell your phone on eBay if you don't format the phone.
So, there's no way to sell it with Flappy Bird on it.
So, if you try it through eBay, you'll find that your auction will be taken down.
Now, here's another guy that has taken this one step further.
He is renting his iPhone for $1 a minute to Flappy Bird users who are desperate to continue playing the game.
Now, as we mentioned, thousands of smartphones installed with the addictive game have gone on sale on eBay for all kinds of high prices.
But those listings have been pulled.
In a post on Craigslist, Jack Nelson has written,
Have you ever wanted to play the game Flappy Bird?
Heard about it on TV or online.
Who really wants to pay thousands of dollars to buy one of these preloaded phones?
Well, if you want to pay thousands of dollars to buy one of these preloaded phones, we can talk after the show.
Continuing with what Jack Nelson says,
He says pay a few bucks and rent my phone with the app installed for a much cheaper price.
He said on Craigslist, there were many sellers attempting to sell their electronic devices at exorbitant prices.
And I don't know if you really can say they're exorbitant prices.
I mean, it's $5,000 an exorbitant price to get a smartphone with Flappy Bird installed on it.
So, I have an additional question.
People are listing phones for all kinds of money.
Is anyone paying these prices?
Because that's really where the scandal lies.
I don't know.
I mean, there's a ballpoint pen on this table.
I can put it on eBay for $100,000.
But I don't think anyone...
Can you play Flappy Bird with it?
No.
I don't think you can.
But I don't think anyone would give me $100,000 for this pen.
So, that doesn't tell you much about the market.
I haven't made it past level 1 in the last 5 minutes.
And that's really disturbing to me.
There we go.
Almost made it to level 2.
Mr. Nelson continues that he says he could let people rent my device,
play for $1 a minute,
that way they could test out the game and see how incredibly frustrating it is,
instead of purchasing a very expensive used device.
In a way, it's a try before you buy model.
Yeah, except you can't buy it because it's not available anywhere
unless you buy a phone for many thousands of dollars.
Also, he's in the Washington, D.C. area,
for those of you out there who might be interested in pursuing this.
And he will be watching you while you use his phone.
You can meet him in a Starbucks.
You can actually go to his house in Washington, D.C.
But he'll be keeping a close eye on you as you play Flappy Birds on his phone
so that you don't do something untoward.
Yes, Rob.
Well, Emmanuel, I am not Satan, and I will not ask for your soul.
But what I will do is I will only charge you $20
to take your phone away from you after the show.
But I warn you, this price may go up.
I don't understand.
I should be the one charging,
because I have the app that everybody seems to want now.
But here's the thing.
If you think that you can go out there and get an app called Flappy Bird,
you better be careful,
because security companies are discovering
that a bunch of applications claiming to be Flappy Bird
in third-party Android app marketplaces are actually malware.
They force the users to send text messages to a certain number,
and that incurs a huge charge.
So you have to be very careful.
Flappy Bird, the original version, is dead.
Be wary of any apps from alternative markets.
Your best bet is to pay thousands of dollars for a smartphone
that has this already built into it,
or meet up with somebody after a radio show
and rent the phone for a couple dollars a minute.
Yeah, the price just went up.
All right.
We can go into business.
I can pull the app off your phone
and charge people just $10 for a copy of it,
and they know and trust us, so they should get it from us.
We won't insert malware.
Wait, can you copy an app off a phone?
Can you do that?
Yeah.
Okay, well, we can talk about this then.
So you're saying that we could conceivably just copy this app
and post it someplace
and charge a phenomenal amount of money for people to go to that website.
Why isn't everybody doing this?
I mean, it depends on the phone.
Some phones are easier than others to do this.
Do you have special skills that nobody else has?
Not that special.
All right, all right.
Okay, it's definitely interesting.
I don't want to promise our listeners that I can do it for them
because I haven't seen your phone and to know if it's supported or not.
But in general, it's a thing you can do.
And someone out there must have the right kind of phone.
Okay, you know what?
I'm turning this thing off.
Why would you ever do that?
I can't turn it off.
All right, this is going to be a difficult hour for me.
Do we need a safe to lock it in for the remaining 50 minutes?
It's just it's right.
Okay, I'm going to put it in my pocket,
and hopefully I won't feel the need to go back to it.
But boy, it's tough.
It's a challenge.
It really is.
All right, so, yes, this is a fundraiser, as you mentioned, Mike.
What we are doing tonight is we are –
we've gotten a lot of good response from last week's fundraiser,
how pleasant it is compared to other fundraisers, less stressful.
It's definitely less stressful because we don't have to hawk premiums
that we come up with ourselves and have to deliver them and all kinds of things.
The show is the premium.
That's the theme of this fun drive here in February.
And we got a good response.
I think we were number three for the day at WBAI last week,
which was really, really good.
Who's making that sound?
That might be your phone.
Yeah.
Well, that's not the service I have.
Yeah, it just happens to be my ringtone.
Oh, you know what?
It rebooted.
Wow, look at that.
Maybe I put malware on my phone by accident.
Could be.
Yeah.
212-209-2950 is the number to call.
Now, what we are suggesting people do today is use the BAI Buddy System.
What that is is a way that you can pledge to the radio station
and pay a really, really small amount each month
that gets deducted from your credit card bill, bank statement,
whichever it is you prefer,
and basically support the radio station in a really, really productive way.
So, for instance, if you were to call 212-209-2950 and pledge $5 a month,
well, in effect, that means in one year you would be giving us $60 period for the year.
Now, if 10 people did that, that's $600 we've raised just like that
from people paying $5 a month.
All you have to do is call 212-209-2950.
Now, it gets even better if you pledge $10 a month
because then you get this cool little thing that we're offering called Pacifica on a Stick.
And what that is is a Best of WBAI thumb drive.
It's a gift for new members.
And you get all kinds of interesting speakers and lectures and things like that,
100 different speakers.
Actually, you get two.
You get the 100-speaker collection and you get the Best of WBAI thumb drive.
And that's if you become a WBAI buddy for $10 or more a month, 212-209-2950.
Now, if only 10 people call up and pledge $5 a month, we will have met our goal for this hour.
And certainly if 10 people call up and pledge $10 a month, we will have doubled our goal.
It's not difficult. It's not painful.
And it's something that keeps this radio station alive without the constant fundraising.
So it's really the ball is in your court right now, listeners.
212-209-2950.
This is an experiment.
And much credit goes to the folks in management here at WBAI for trying something different
that the listeners have pretty much been wanting.
And if it works, it's great.
If it doesn't work, then it's not so great.
And then we are facing other alternatives.
So really, yeah, it's up to you at this point.
212-209-2950.
And for those of you who don't want to call us up now or who want to maybe donate some time down the line,
you can also go to WBAI.org and follow the links to give to WBAI,
which is the word give, the numeral 2, WBAI.org.
And you can donate in the name of your favorite show, which we hope you would say is us.
And you can do this anytime, and you can get WBAI's special premiums that way.
If you go to give, the numeral 2, WBAI.org or call 212-209-2950.
And, of course, you get the most important premium, which is this radio station,
and you get a voice in this radio station and where it goes next.
And if you call within the next hour, between 7 and 8 p.m. Eastern Time on February the 12th, 2014,
then the credit goes to Off The Hook.
And the powers that be will know that this particular radio show has many listeners that value it as the premium.
That's why it's important that you call now.
212-209-2950 is the telephone number.
Now, what we're also going to do this hour is we're going to take phone calls.
This is unheard of in phone drive mode.
We're going to take phone calls from the listeners, and you can tell us,
and you can tell all the listeners, why you did, why you should, why you didn't,
or why you should not pledge to the radio station.
In other words, in your words, we want to hear it.
We want to hear what we're doing right.
We want to hear what you might have to suggest to other people to get them to call in and support the place.
And ideas, all kinds of ideas, because we're open to that.
And we'll be taking phone calls 212-209-2900 in just a couple of minutes,
once we go over a couple of stories.
But, yeah, we want to hear from our listeners. Absolutely do.
So here's what I think you should do if you're listening.
Just go get a pen and a piece of paper, or you can open up a text editor on your computer,
whatever you do to make notes to yourself.
And so hopefully people have done that by now.
And I just want you to write down 212-209-2950.
So then you have that.
And so you can call it now. You should call it now.
But if you're uncertain, if you don't know if you want this program to continue,
if you don't know if you want this radio station to continue,
then just keep that piece of paper by you for the rest of the hour.
And if we say something that you like hearing, or that you hate hearing,
but you think it should remain on the air,
then you'll have that number, 212-209-2950, by you.
So you can call any time during the hour.
If you're listening to us on delay, you can call then,
because the people will still be there,
but make sure to tell them that you really like Off The Hook.
And this way we'll be able to continue with the program.
We won't have to spend the whole hour saying 212-209-2950,
but you'll have heard it, and you'll have written it down,
and you can give us a call.
Yeah, okay.
Well, I'm sorry.
I was just looking at the phone number as you were giving it out,
and what I noticed was that there's nobody...
Yeah, take this away from me.
There's nobody that can call that number, that can actually get through.
Nobody anywhere, I think, can actually call 212-209-2950.
You know why?
Because you need a 1 in front of that.
There's no place you don't need a 1.
On a cell phone, you don't need a 1.
Oh, you're right.
Okay, on a cell phone, you don't need a 1.
Why is that?
I don't know.
Why is it that you don't need a 1 on a cell phone?
You're the phone person.
Well, yeah, that's true,
but I've always said the 1 is a stupid idea to start with.
I grew up in 516 area code.
We didn't have a 1 for a very, very long time.
There's a 1 right in the 516.
No, I meant the 1 before the 516.
We didn't have that.
We didn't need that, and we didn't have 10-digit dialing.
We still don't within 516 or 631 out on the island.
But if you're calling from a landline,
and, of course, you can put the 1 on a cell phone as well,
you will need the 1.
People do encourage you to dial 1 plus area code plus number.
And, of course, if you're out of the country,
our country code happens to be 1,
so you have to dial the 1 before that anyway
in addition to any other prefix you might need.
I just think our numbering scheme is kind of weird
and not very smart.
It's because the cell phone itself will add the 1
if you don't punch it in,
which means we've reached a point
where our phones themselves are smarter than the network.
How do you know that, Rob?
How do you know it's adding a 1?
What proof do you have that it's actually adding a 1?
I don't think the 1 is needed at all.
It's an area code.
The first three numbers are in there.
What do you need a 1 for?
What is the 1 for?
Can someone answer me this?
It's for the United States.
We're number 1.
No, but in the United States,
we don't need to dial it.
No other country dials their own country code
every time they call a phone number.
No, it makes no sense.
All right.
Some countries dial 0.
Yeah, that's true.
We dial 0, we get an operator.
Does that still happen?
Yeah, I think so.
All right.
I've never once called an operator,
I think, in my entire life.
We're going to prove this right now
and see what happens.
I mean, we won't get a human.
All right.
We have to get out of this crazy dial tone first, though.
There.
And you dial 0.
You used to get a New York telephone operator,
then a 9X operator,
then a Bell Atlantic operator,
then a Verizon operator.
Who knows?
Welcome to Verizon.
For emergency police, fire, or ambulance service,
press 9 now.
To make a collect call,
or to bill to another number,
press 2.
To reach Verizon Repair,
a Verizon business office,
or for any other Verizon service question,
press 3.
For directory assistance,
press 4.
For directory assistance,
press 4.
If you are a customer with a disability
or need additional assistance,
please hold for an operator.
To hear these choices again,
press 5.
It used to be you would call 0
and you'd get an operator immediately.
Now you've got to wait,
you've got to listen to that whole recording.
God forbid you don't have a touch-tone phone.
It's just not how it used to be.
You're always getting computers.
Someone mentioned to me,
I think it was Kyle mentioned to me,
that he tried to call Verizon in New York City
and you could not get somebody to pick up the phone.
You could not get anyone to even answer the phone
at Verizon, at the phone company.
I mean, they have people who answer the phones all day.
You want to see something cool, though?
Watch this.
I'm going to dial a phone number now.
If I can get it to dial tone again.
Okay, I'm going to dial a phone number.
Okay, except our touch-tones don't work.
All right, this doesn't work
if the touch-tones don't work.
I'm sorry, folks.
This is embarrassing.
Another dial tone, please.
Okay, clearly our phone is so broken
that we can't even dial phone numbers.
What I was going to do, try it one more time.
No, now we're not even getting a dial tone.
This is a secret phone number?
This is so humiliating.
Okay, I was going to dial the Hotel Pennsylvania,
Pennsylvania 6-5000,
because when you dial that number,
you get a human being that answers the phone immediately.
Wow.
That doesn't happen anywhere anymore.
That's kind of crazy.
You also, if they do put you on hold
at the Hotel Pennsylvania,
you get some fun, catchy hold music.
Senator Rand Paul.
I'm sorry for having to say that,
but it's part of the news today.
Senator Rand Paul today,
and it's too bad Bernie's not with us,
because I know he would have something
to say about this.
He today announced what he described
as one of the largest class-action lawsuits
in history, taking President Obama
and top intelligence officials to court
over National Security Agency surveillance.
This is what we were talking about last week.
The CCC filed a lawsuit in Germany
against their government for the surveillance
that is being conducted over there,
and we were wondering,
why don't people do this over here?
Why can't we do this over here?
Well, Senator Rand Paul apparently beat us to it,
and it's kind of sad that these are the people
that you have to follow if you want to join in.
Why can't it be somebody who is less offensive
than Senator Rand Paul?
This, we believe, he says,
will be a historic lawsuit,
the Kentucky Republican said.
The suit, joined by conservative advocacy group
Freedom Works, was filed in U.S. District Court
in the District of Columbia.
It alleges that the NSA program
that sweeps up and stores massive amounts
of telephone metadata,
which includes where and when calls are made,
but not the contents of the calls,
violates the Fourth Amendment.
These are things we've been saying
for, what, a year now.
Longer than that.
Yeah.
Well, forever we've been saying it.
The suit asks the court to rule the program
unconstitutional and forbid the government
from continuing it.
Any one of us could have said the same things.
We have been saying the same things.
Senator Rand Paul is the one
that's going to get all the credit for fighting this.
We could have done better somehow.
I just don't know how.
Why wasn't some other senator around to do this?
Why is he the first?
Well, he might be the first senator,
but this is not the first lawsuit
to challenge the NSA surveillance program.
Our friends at the EFF and separately
friends at the ACLU have filed lawsuits,
and I think it's important
to try as many things as possible
because we know that the NSA
is trying as many things,
as many insane quasi-legal tactics as they can,
both to surveil us
and to defend their surveillance of us.
So I think it's important to fight it on many fronts.
I don't fault him for this.
I fault him for all kinds of other things.
No, I don't fault him.
I do not fault him for this.
I fault him for everything else,
but I don't fault him for this.
That's what bothers me,
is that the thing that really counts,
the thing that really matters,
I've got to say,
yeah, you're doing the right thing,
but why aren't thousands of other people
or powerful entities,
such as senators and congressmen
and corporations and all kinds of people
out there doing the exact same thing?
Now yesterday we had a little campaign
that took place on thousands of websites.
The day that we fought back
is how it's being described.
Didn't get very much publicity, did it?
I mean, it did in our circles,
but mainstream I don't think
covered it at all, did they?
It's hard for me to know
because I kept hearing about it nonstop,
both leading up to it and on the day itself,
but I don't think most people that was the case.
Yeah, it was on the 2600 site.
It was on the HOPE site.
It was on the EFF site.
It was in many, many places.
Yeah, it was also on the Pirate Bay.
Was it now?
Yeah, but one place
or a couple of places that it wasn't
was all the places that Stop SOPA and PIPA were,
like Google, like Wikipedia,
the big sites like that.
Yeah, why was it on Wikipedia of all places?
I don't know.
I would be very interested to hear
why it wasn't there.
Very interesting.
Okay, you know what?
We're going to take some phone calls,
212-209-2900.
We'd like for people to tell us
if they have called 212-209-2950
and pledged to the BAI Buddy program,
if they intend to do that,
if they've done that in the past,
if they want to encourage other listeners to do this.
That's really the theme of the program tonight
because we are in the middle of a fundraiser,
but it's a different kind of fundraiser,
and if this works,
it could make for a lot more content
on our particular radio show on these airwaves.
So we'd like to hear what you have to think,
what you have to say.
Let's take a phone call.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Oh, they hung up.
Okay, let's try this one.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Speak up.
Daryl McPherson.
I haven't joined the Buddy program yet.
However, I suggest everybody do as much as they can
in order to perpetuate the station.
I'm an ex-Verizon employee,
and what they told us 20 years ago, whatever,
that the 1 was necessary
in order to get into the dialing network.
Yes, it was way back
when you had such things as toll calls.
Dialing the 1 first,
even on a seven-digit number,
the 1 would indicate that you were going long distance.
I think AT&T would kick in at that point,
and there were some area codes,
and a 202 was one of them.
516 was another where that was not necessary.
There was also a way of telling you
you weren't dialing an exchange.
For instance, if you dialed plus 1, 212,
it meant that you weren't dialing a 212 exchange
inside another area code,
and the reason those other area codes
didn't require the 1 to dial outward
was because they didn't have enough exchanges
to make area codes and exchanges.
It probably sounds like complete nonsense
what I'm saying, but I think...
No, it actually makes a lot of sense.
It's just that nobody who is DS0
would understand what you're talking about.
However, it's important that people hear it
in the context that the question that I had is
if and when the evil 1
goes totally digital, quote-unquote,
then does that mean that
there won't be a separate electrical system
to run the phone system,
meaning that your plain old telephone
will be on fiber and it may go down
when the electricity goes down?
Yeah, we've seen that already.
When there's power outages,
your line only will last as long as the battery lasts
instead of always having that dependability
that the voltage coming down the phone line
will give you, either to light up your princess phone
or just simply to give you what you need
to actually make a phone call.
I'm saying, does the network go down,
not the individual phone,
but if you had a plain old telephone
and the system is totally digital,
will that phone work?
Whereas in the past, with the copper, it worked.
If there's no power being sent down the digital line,
which I believe is the case with Fios,
people can correct me if I'm wrong,
no, that's not where the power comes from anymore.
The power comes from other places.
No one is telling the public
about this huge transformation
and that whole thing with what happened to you all
when you were down in Wall Street,
in which they decided not to replace the copper
because it was so badly corroded,
but they never told anybody that.
They went to 104 Broad Street, if it's still there,
and then they just decided to go ahead and do the upgrade
that they had decided to do a long time ago,
and they kept not telling people
why it was taking so long to restore the service
in the context that they never had any intentions
of restoring the original service.
They wanted to do what they wanted to do
on their time schedule.
And just to throw this in, everybody who's in the union,
even though you've been co-opted and coerced,
you need to be supporting off the hook
because back in the day and to this day,
they are probably the only ones
who keep you connected to the customers
who could then save you from a vicious company
that is going to eat you alive.
That's a good suggestion.
How many people are in that union?
Excuse me?
How many people do you think are in that union?
Right now?
Yeah.
I would suggest it's less than 5,000
as compared to when I left it,
it was around 10,000.
And the only reason that...
Here's another one for you, Emmanuel.
Do you know the largest cooperative in the world
does not have files
and that the reason it doesn't have files,
and that's Co-Op City, and you know where that is, correct?
I believe so.
It's off 95 just before you go up into Pelham.
Okay.
The large 35 tall buildings
that you can see from this rock there.
Yet more information that we're giving out to our listeners
that you won't get anywhere else.
This is literally something you will never hear.
We were the last people in the Bronx to get DSL.
Uh-huh.
Okay, they're not giving us files, quote, unquote,
because the management company
had an arrangement with Time Warner,
and they didn't think they'd get enough customers.
Now, does that make any kind of sense to you?
No, but we're dealing with phone companies here,
and it's not supposed to make any...
No, no, no, I'll give you the real reason
why they won't do it.
Because, let me see,
the closest central office to Co-Op City
would probably be Zeriga Avenue.
Uh-huh.
Which, for right now,
that's not the name of the office.
I'm losing it.
Losing what the name is because I'm so angry.
And I think they closed the office on City Island,
and there was an office right outside of Co-Op City
that they built specifically for Co-Op City
when back when they had a 5E,
and they closed it down,
and now it's just, you know,
one of those little hub things that they have.
Uh-huh.
Like, they're selling off...
What I'm attempting to tell people is
is that their phone service,
the utility part of their phone service
is being totally co-opted.
Eventually, probably the landlines
will be sold off to somebody like Frontier
once they convince people
that all you need is a cell phone,
that perhaps on a good day
you won't get more than three or four drop calls
depending on what Verizon decides to do.
Uh-huh, if anybody can understand
what you're saying on them anyway.
Listen, I'm sorry.
This phone call is too interesting.
It could go on for the next half hour,
but we don't have that kind of time.
We would like for you to just encourage other people
to call the other phone number and pledge.
Can you do that?
No, no, no, no, no.
2950, yes, yes.
Call, keep the station on the air
because the evil Pacifico people
have very wicked plans.
And we need WBAI
because it's one of the last places
you can actually get information
that won't warp your brain
and actually may put money in your pocket
if we all got together.
We can do this.
We've done it before.
We can save BAI, put it back on track,
and have wonderful people
like the folks at Off The Hook
give us information without getting anywhere.
Okay, thanks.
Thanks so much.
Thanks for that phone call.
And yes, what an interesting conversation
that turned out to be.
I'm sure there are people out there
that are phone enthusiasts
who would appreciate that kind of thing.
But yeah, there's so much,
so much ground to cover,
and we're just scratching the surface here
at Off The Hook.
212-209-2950, that's the pledge line.
Pledge $5 a month.
Pledge $10 a month.
Pledge whatever you can afford.
It all adds up.
Our goal tonight is only 10 new people
at $5 a month.
And right away,
that gets us $600 for an hour,
which might seem meager
compared to what we've done in the past.
But remember,
we're doing this fun drive differently.
We're not having a lot of premiums.
And most of the programs here
at this radio station
did not give the premiums away for free
like we did.
So the station is saving a lot of money
by not having to buy books,
not having to buy CDs,
not having to buy all kinds of other things
and simply focusing on the content,
on the programs themselves.
Plus, we don't have the staff anymore
to send out the premiums.
So it's a question of logistics.
Again,
212-209-2900 is the call-in line
if there's something you would like to say to us.
And please,
don't make the call as interesting as the last one
because we don't have that much time.
Tell us why you're going to call
212-209-2950 and pledge,
why you did,
why you won't,
why you shouldn't,
anything like that.
That's what we want to hear tonight.
The call-in number,
212-209-2900.
The pledge line,
212-209-2950.
Let's take a phone call.
Good evening.
You're on Off The Hook.
Hey, where's Bernie?
We don't know.
He's MIA.
All right.
Well, I just am calling with the theme of the show
and I want to thank all of the Off The Hook listeners
that pledged last week,
including myself.
Yes.
I'm not trying to pat myself on the back.
Well, let us be the people to thank you.
Thank you very much for that call.
And I want you to continue that
because I think we like a low-key pledge drive.
Everybody that hasn't called in
or pledged online,
which is a lot more passive
because we have a lot of geeks out there
so they're a little socially inept,
so just go to the website and give like that.
But thank you to everybody last week
that gave and were number three last week.
So just put up or shut up.
And then also the last thing is on the fiber,
it needs relays everywhere to keep it goosed.
Yes.
And that's why we missed the copper
because you still have a day or two
that runs through there,
even if the power is shut off.
But now it's all digital and the relays and everything,
so it all goes out.
All right.
Thanks for that.
Yeah, technology is doomed
if you only rely on new things
and don't interface with the old things.
It's also doomed if you only rely on old things
and don't bring in new things.
Kind of like a radio station
where you need new voices, old voices, history,
all kinds of brand new things as well.
That's how you move forward.
Again, 212.209.2900 is our call in line.
212.209.2950 is our pledge line.
Please make use of both.
Hey, there was another story this week
which I thought was kind of interesting.
They're talking about this al-Qaeda fighter in Pakistan,
and this was on CNN.
They're basically talking about targeting
this American who's in Pakistan right now.
I can imagine him turning on CNN and seeing this
and really kind of freaking out here
that he's apparently being targeted by a drone
walking around in Pakistan.
People watch CNN?
Yeah.
Really?
Of course they do.
Why?
I don't know why, Mike, but they do.
It just seems unlikely that this person would watch CNN.
It seems like a waste of everyone's time.
Well, if he was watching CNN,
he would learn that he is being targeted
by a drone in Pakistan.
I think that's very relevant information to find out.
I'd watch CNN if they were going to tell me that.
In this specific case, okay,
but you have to have advance notice,
which defeats the whole point of watching.
Maybe somebody called him and said,
hey, you've got to watch CNN now.
They're talking about you.
Anyway, this person has been the subject of debate
among military commanders and intelligence officials
for several weeks as they decide what to recommend.
I can't believe this is out in the open like this,
but there is a very interesting quote
that made its way into this story
that I don't think is getting the attention it deserves,
and that came from our good friend,
former U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez.
I wonder what he's been up to lately.
Well, he's been saying some interesting things.
On this particular program on Tuesday,
he said that the Obama administration
would be justified using drones
to kill American terrorists abroad and at home.
Have we ever heard anybody,
a current government representative,
former government representative,
saying that we're going to start using drones
to kill people in this country?
Because he just did that.
He just said that.
The former attorney general.
He's not just somebody spitting into the wind.
This is somebody that knows a few things.
This is what they are planning.
You could one day see a drone take out your neighbor
because who knows what he's up to.
This is the world that we're starting to welcome into our lives.
Due process is hard, you guys.
It is. It's a pain in the ass. We all know that.
But really, drone.
Drone strikes here in this country,
coming soon to a neighborhood near you.
According to Alberto Gonzalez. Wow.
All right. Let's take this phone call.
Good evening. You're on Off The Hook.
Greetings. This is Bernie S. in Pennsylvania.
Bernie, where in the world have you been?
I'm sorry. I had an emergency here.
I had to run out without my phone,
and this is as close as I can get to the phone.
So I apologize.
All right. All right.
It's definitely bad form on a fundraising night.
It is bad form, but we'll let it go this time.
Would you like to say something to our listeners
to encourage them to call 212-209-2950,
or perhaps putting a 1 in front of that?
That is the right number to call
to support a radio station
that supports this type of information.
A hacker radio show is a rare thing.
I don't know of any other hacker radio shows
or any other broadcast radio stations, do you?
Well, there are the hacker radio shows,
some on broadcast stations, smaller stations,
a lot on the Internet,
which I think is an amazing thing.
There's all kinds of...
If you go to any conference,
there'll be somebody doing a radio show,
a radio station,
even like we have here in New York,
Radio Statler at the Hope Conferences.
And it's just kind of cool to see radio being embraced
as a communications medium,
because I think it's the coolest.
A broadcast, you know,
there's something magical about radio.
Electronics has been around for more than a century,
but it's something magical about a broadcast station
that sends out thousands of watts
from on top of the Empire State Building
to reach an 80-mile radius.
Of course, we also reach people over the Internet, too,
but the main thing is the content
from not just this show,
but this radio station, WPAI,
has unique content
you're not going to find anywhere else,
and we don't have to answer to commercial,
What am I hearing?
Oh, no, go ahead.
I'm listening, I'm listening.
It sounds like there's a space war game
going on in the background.
No, it's not in space.
It's on Earth.
Bernie, in your experience,
and I know you've consumed a lot of radio
over the years,
has there ever been another radio station
where people play Flappy Bird on the air?
Is that what I'm hearing?
No.
I have never heard that before.
I don't know if that actually makes good radio,
but maybe it's slightly newsworthy
for reasons I don't understand.
You won't hear it again because you can't get it.
You can't get it anymore.
This is a rarity.
I hear you can buy a phone with it on eBay
for about $10,000.
You're going to have to,
when you have a chance,
hopefully your emergency has resolved itself
in a satisfactory manner,
you can go and listen to the first few minutes
of this program where we talk all about it.
You want to talk about emergencies?
I've not gotten through one level
since I started playing again this half hour,
and it's doing a number on my head,
I've got to say.
I hear it's a very hard game to play,
but I've never played it myself.
It's an extreme...
Well, for a small fee, Bernie,
we can hook you up and...
There we go.
Yeah, and you can witness the joys of it yourself.
Did you have this...
You probably already told the listener.
Did you already have this game
before this guy took it off the market?
Oh, no, I didn't hear about it
until he said it was ruining his life,
and he was taking it off,
so I figured, hey, why not grab it
before he takes it off, and I did,
and now I have a phone worth $250,000.
I'm not paying you.
No, well, you're not the target audience, Mike.
Who is?
We're meeting with them later.
Yes, let's hear from some more listeners.
212-209-2900.
Bernie, did you hear the story we just mentioned
about apparently there'll be drone strikes
in this country to look forward to?
No, I just got to a phone minutes ago, but...
Alberto Gonzalez, the former attorney general
of the United States of America,
said that Obama would be justified
in using drone strikes to take out terrorists
abroad and at home,
so that means that's what they're thinking.
He scared me back when he was in the White House,
and he's not quite as scary now
because he doesn't have as much authority.
He's scary. He's scary all the time.
Let's take another phone call.
Good evening. You're on Off the Hook.
Oh, fantastic.
This is why I'm becoming a BAI buddy,
because I get to say this on the air.
I'm sorry. Am I deranged?
But a senator suing?
He could not even get off his butt
and just filibuster the program,
or better yet, write a legislation.
And that's all I have to say. Thanks.
All right, thanks for that phone call,
and thanks for keeping it brief, too, by the way.
But, you know, don't they operate outside the law?
Don't they just do it anyway,
no matter what you filibuster,
no matter what laws you pass?
They pay lip service to following the law,
so maybe some laws could be modified
in a way that would help us.
That and a nickel will get you kicked off the subway.
You know, it's not...
What? What does the nickel have to do with it?
Because the nickel used to get you on the subway.
Now it won't anymore.
As we've established on this program and others,
the NSA is very good at making its own rules
and then breaking those rules that it set for itself.
So maybe this is why we need the crazies
like the Rand Pauls and the Insane Clown Posses
and whoever else to be crazy back at them.
Is the Insane Clown Posse in on this?
Because if they are, then I'll sign up.
They're suing the FBI over something related,
but not quite the same.
That'd be great if they were in the same courthouse
at the same time.
Who would be the craziest one?
I don't know.
That would be a whole reality show right there.
Okay, here's another story.
I like this.
We'll do a story and a call.
How about that?
This is about driverless cars,
and it looks like Americans aren't quite ready
to embrace the future of driverless vehicles.
According to a new study by market research firm
Harris Interactive's Harris Poll,
they got their name twice in their own poll,
nearly nine in ten American adults
said they would be worried about riding
in a driverless car.
In contrast, only 12% of respondents
said they would not worry about letting
their cars do the driving.
It's the latest in a series of studies
that suggests motorists are far from convinced
the new technology will be safe and reliable.
It could throw a dash of cold water
on the industry's face, race rather,
to bring autonomous vehicles to market.
This research confirms consumers
likely won't hand over the wheel
until auto companies can prove equipment
is safe from software glitches or failure.
Now, 59% of the people polled
expressed concerns about liability issues,
notably who would be responsible
if a driverless car crashed.
52% raised concerns about the possibility
of a hacker gaining control of the vehicle.
That's one of the biggest concerns, yes.
More than one-third raised privacy concerns,
questioning whether auto companies,
insurers, advertisers, or the government
might try to collect personal data,
such as where autonomous vehicles are driven
and how fast they drive.
Hey, newsflash, they can do that now
with non-autonomous vehicles.
They're tracking all kinds of movements.
And fewer than one in eight of those surveyed
said they'd now be comfortable
driving in an autonomous vehicle.
And these numbers pretty much go through
all different age ranges.
93% of those older than 65 said
they'd worry about driving
in an autonomous vehicle.
For those 18 to 34, 84% said that.
Now, on the other hand,
a survey by automotive consulting firm
Accenture, which was released last month,
found about 80, actually 90% of American motorists
are interested in driverless technology,
or at least some of the features
that are already beginning to show up
in today's vehicles.
These include automatic braking systems
that can stop a car in an emergency,
auto parking systems,
and lane-keeping technology.
That's what keeps you from drifting
from lane to lane if you're trying
to get a bird through a pipe
or something like that.
And no, I did not really play in the cars.
Some people, literal-minded people out there
don't think I was actually doing that.
Don't play any kind of bird games in cars.
But it's interesting.
I'm very interested in the technology myself,
but I would never want to be
in a driverless car, you know?
I just wouldn't want that.
I think it's really fascinating, actually,
how the automobile industry has,
over the decades, managed to convince people
that cars as they exist now are safe,
and so any deviation from that must be unsafe.
I mean, already in New York City this year,
25 people have been killed by automobiles.
And I don't know if driverless,
or computer-controlled cars,
can do better than that.
It remains to be seen.
I'm definitely skeptical of the technology,
but it is entirely within the realm of possibility
that they might be able to.
But when you say that 25 people were killed by cars,
they weren't the people in the cars.
They were the people that cars ran over.
I don't think you're going to find a car manufacturer
anywhere that's going to say,
yeah, our car, when it hits you,
isn't going to kill you.
That's not the same kind of safety.
Well, seven of the people were.
I have the statistics in front of me.
Okay.
So those people, I don't know exactly
if they hit a mailbox or a light pole
or what they hit.
I don't have that kind of statistics.
So it is possible that we can build a technology
that's safer,
and people will still think it's less safe.
And that frightens me,
as a person who's usually not in a car.
I don't see the correlation where an automated car
is not going to crash,
is not going to have a problem.
In fact, the air train,
the very first time they tested the air train,
it killed somebody.
A driverless train.
It basically tilted over,
and some poor guy was crushed.
There are all kinds of things that can happen
with driverless vehicles.
That's my point, exactly,
is that there are all kinds of bad things
that can happen with driverless vehicles.
But what we don't know is maybe there will be
fewer bad things that happen
with human-driven vehicles.
And in the long run, it's worth it.
I don't know.
But I think it's insane to pretend
that driverful cars are actually safe,
and that, therefore, anything else must be worse.
Well, I didn't get that from the story.
I got the people don't think the technology is there yet,
but they're interested in it.
And I'm certainly interested in it.
Rob?
Yeah, I definitely think it's interesting.
But on the other hand,
I consider myself technologically adept
as these things go.
And I still know how much
the consumer electronics I have go wrong now.
And if my phone drops a call
or my Xbox freezes up or something,
it doesn't kill somebody on the sidewalk.
But you could kill somebody on the sidewalk
anytime you want.
If I wanted to,
but I have better things to do with myself at this point.
Yeah, I'm always leery of just judging humans
as not being able to handle certain things.
And yes, a machine can do this better than you.
Maybe in some menial task in a factory, that's true.
But something like actually
just getting around from day to day,
I mean, I could say just as easily that,
you know what, it's a lot safer
for you to ride a stationary bike inside a house
than to be outdoors
because you could run over outdoors.
And that wouldn't be the same thing.
Yeah, you get the same amount of exercise
but you'd be safe.
And what's to say that
that's not going to be the next thing handed down
telling us that in order to keep alive,
we must do things this way.
You know, it's interesting technology
and I'd like to know more about it.
But at the same time,
I think it's good for people to know how to do things.
For instance,
we're talking about the auto parking technology here.
It means that people don't know how to park anymore
because they're used to their car doing it for them.
And that's not good
when people don't know how to do things
because sometimes that technology fails
and you need to know these skills.
We do have precedent for that.
A lot of people don't know how to dial a phone anymore.
Yeah, okay.
Let's take a couple more phone calls if we can.
212-209-2900
for people to tell us
why they either just pledged
or why they will pledge
or why they refuse to pledge
or why other listeners should pledge.
And again, that pledge line,
212-209-2950.
We've been pushing the BAI Buddy,
but that's not the only thing that's out there.
If you want to call up and just pledge a big amount,
like, you know, a hundred bucks or something like that,
of course, people there will be happy
to take that information from you.
We take all kinds of credit cards
or we can bill you.
But the BAI Buddy system is a monthly charge
that goes on your bank statement,
your credit cards.
They can explain to you exactly how it works.
212-209-2950.
Let's take a phone call now
and see what people have to say.
Good evening.
You're on Off The Hook.
All right.
I didn't believe I would come on.
Anything's possible.
Thanks for the program
and thanks for the possibility to comment.
And, I mean, I don't know how much time you have,
but I do have a lot to say.
Yeah, well, not enough time for that.
We only have about 30 seconds per caller
because we have a full line.
Well, then not much time for a discussion.
But, you know,
since you started with management decisions,
let's just say that, you know,
they have been at least poor for a very long time.
And in the last couple of years,
they've been delivering between fundraisers,
which took about 90% of programming,
a very poor product.
And that's why the audience is starting to switch off
because, you know,
people know that there are other quality,
community-oriented programming within,
not just on the Internet,
but even just within the tri-state area
and, you know, they're voting with their ears.
And, of course, we do need a BAI.
Of course, we need a dial space for community programming,
but not in the form that has been delivered lately.
And, you know, if there is going to be change,
we need real change.
You know, why do you need to spend $50,000 a month
for the privilege of reaching maybe two extra listeners
within, you know, the 50 miles radio
that the Empire State Building allows the radio station to reach?
Wait, I'm not sure I understand.
What is the alternative to being on the Empire State Building?
Sorry?
What's the alternative to being on the Empire State Building?
Oh, let me think about it.
In New York, there is no other skyscraper
where you could put, at a very considerably reduced rate,
you could put your transmitter.
I mean...
Do you know of a skyscraper like this?
Because we'd sure be interested in finding out about it.
Listen, the question is not finding another skyscraper.
The question is finding a mind form
that allows the station to say,
we cannot afford to spend that much money,
and we need to spend half or less,
putting it on top of, just to say,
not that it's available, the Chrysler Building,
or something that is, you know,
instead of being 1,400 feet,
it's going to be, you know, 1,000 feet.
And that still allows you quite a range,
not to mention the Internet.
And, you know, my radio station, my ideal radio station,
would never need a fundraiser,
because the people hearing the quality of the programming
would want to contribute just to keep the station on the air.
That's the kind of ideas that we need to put through.
And I understand that you're going into that direction
with the program tonight,
compared to what used to be the past.
But we need more ideas like that.
You know, we need really forward-thinking management
to keep the station going.
And, you know, that is a very good point,
because one thing that you do get
when you become a member of the station
is you get a voice,
and a say in where things go from here.
A lot of people have a lot of ideas,
and frankly, we need all the ideas we can get,
because it's something crazy we're doing,
keeping a radio station going in this city
with this broadcast range, you know,
and with the manpower and everything else
that we have behind it.
So if you call 212-209-2950,
or if you go to wbai.org,
and you become a member,
you also will have the opportunity
to get your voice heard
in where the station goes from here.
And that's an opportunity
that you can only get by becoming a member.
Let's see if we can squeeze in one more phone call.
Good evening, you're on Off The Hook.
Yes, I wanted to make a comment
as far as why people would not want to donate
or become a buddy to WBAI.
Okay, if you can make it quick.
Yes, WBAI informs people,
or educates people about topics and issues,
but the problem is that people feel
that they can't act,
because information without change,
without action, you know,
information plus action equals change.
Well, literally informing people
that, say, Gonzalez said
that there's going to be a strike,
a drone strike in America,
leaves people hanging,
and they feel like they can't actually make a change,
so they say, well, so what,
and they just tune out.
Yeah, no, I understand that,
and that's part of the whole process.
We bring you the information,
then we have to decide what to do next.
But, you know, you're a part
of that decision-making process,
and having the conversation, I think,
is an important part of accomplishing that.
But anyway, thanks for the phone call.
We'll continue this discussion, certainly.
Again, we need people to call
212-209-2950
in the moments that we have left
in this radio program
and pledge whatever you can afford,
whether it be the BAI Buddy System,
whether it be just a pledge
of whatever you can afford
on your credit card,
or we can bill you,
212-209-2950.
Remember, the program is the premium,
and if you value off the hook on WBAI,
this is the time to let that sentiment be known.
212-209-2950.
And, of course, you can also write to us
at, off the hook,
oth at 2600.com.
That's our email address.
And that's our show for this week.
Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show
coming up next here on WBAI.
We'll see you next week.
Good night.
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Off the hook, I tell ya!