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Oh yes, let's do that indeed. It's two minutes after seven o'clock,
you're listening to WBAI New York. It's time for Off The Hook.
Now I can't make a call. We couldn't get much worse. But if they could, they would.
Bum diddly bum for the best, expect the worst. I hope that's understood. Bum diddly bum!
Bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum, bum diddly bum,
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Off the hook, Emanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, joined tonight by Mike, hi there, Rob T. Firefly, good evening, and from Skype Land, Bernie S.
Well Skype Land via the telephone network, it's Bernie S. in Pennsylvania, good evening.
Okay, so let's update people as to how we're doing this, we still don't have phones here at the Radius, traditional phones that is, it's still madness outside, I don't know if people realize this, it's going to take forever to get this place back up and running, by this place I mean lower Manhattan and places adjacent to the water that turned out to be our enemy.
So right now we are using the internet to connect, why do we have the internet but we don't have phones, does anybody understand that?
I know that I've heard you say on this radio program that landline phones are the most reliable thing ever.
Except in Manhattan, okay, maybe I should have put that caveat there, because everywhere else I go landlines stay up no matter what happens, but in Manhattan, yeah, well remember we had the Verizon nightmares of years past, now we no longer use them so we don't have those nightmares, but they, I hear rumors outside that phones won't be back until May, regular phone lines, and it's just, what could possibly have happened to them that would make them that broken, you just run new wires, it won't take that long.
Apparently it does take that long, I don't know.
Alright.
Maybe the person who called last week to tell us everything Verizon's doing right can call again.
Yeah please, or maybe just come down here and wire us up again.
That sounds even better, yeah.
So we have internet connectivity and that's how we're connecting to Bernie, and we also have some way of routing calls to the tally room because yes this is a fundraising show tonight and the reason we're doing that in December, it's not the winter fundraiser because that's in February, it's not the fall fundraiser because that's in October, so this is a brand new season for us, and it's our emergency fundraiser because we had an emergency, a real emergency, you know the kind that kids in kindergarten have, that kind of emergency, it's just as bad.
Except imagine it on a Wall Street scale, well that's what happened to us, and we need to recover from that, and we weren't on last week because well we were just kind of caught up in other things, I was on a cross country train, and I gotta tell you, if you want to get away from it all and you want to relax and just forget about the world, taking a cross country train, even in this country is the most amazing way to do that, and I wholeheartedly recommend that.
And I really hope they expand, they build more lines and make that something that's possible for more people.
I'm still waiting for high speed rail.
Well that would be a great thing too.
I took the Acela Express a couple, about a month ago, and let me tell you it is not a high speed train.
No, no it's not.
In this country we really don't have high speed rail, but there are initiatives to get high speed rail at speeds of up to 220 miles an hour, it can happen.
And you know one thing I realized, I spent a lot of time in Seattle this past week, and I was there the day that pot became legal, I was there the day gay marriage became legal, you get the sense that we are moving forward.
In some ways we are progressing, things are getting better, and we have to sometimes stop and acknowledge that because that gives us the strength to keep pushing to do more things.
So yeah, let's not say that it can never happen, it's not possible, too daunting.
I think it is possible, I think if we push for things like this, high speed rail being one of my passions, but whatever else we need to make this a better place, let's say that we can do it.
And for us right now, getting the phones back would be a monumental accomplishment, but also getting support from our listeners to help rebuild because we do have things that we have to take care of here, and this whole Sandy business has really, it's been a punch in the face in many, many ways.
And I don't know how long it will be before we recover here, there might be things that change permanently, we might never recover completely, or we might just wind up going in a different direction, we don't know.
Right now though, this is where we are, this is what we are doing, and we ask for support.
Now we have a special phone number, write down this number, it's 917-580-6021.
If you just want to call in right now and just pledge everything you can imagine to the radio station, that's the number to call, 917-580-6021, or you can stay tuned and hear what we are offering tonight, which I think is pretty cool.
But first, any updates? Bernie, is there anything that you would like to tell the folks?
Well, there's big news from North Korea.
I didn't get my call, okay, tell me.
Well, the North Korean government has, well, that's everything going on over there, apparently successfully launched their first satellite yesterday.
Did they do it this time, did they really do it, or did they just...
They actually did it, a year ago they did it and it crashed, it didn't even get very far off the ground.
But this time, according to NORAD, it is in low Earth orbit, so they managed it.
It's a three-stage rocket, first stage, second stage fell into the ocean as it was supposed to, but the third stage made it all the way up to Earth orbit.
And it's orbiting, we don't know what's in the satellite, whether there's cameras in it, or whether there's a radio transmitter in it, there probably is.
A year ago they announced they were going to be broadcasting a special song on a UHF frequency, but they haven't made any such announcement this year.
So, I imagine there's a lot of radio hobbyists scanning the UHF frequency for Skyforce, listening for the North Korean song coming from low Earth orbit, this is great.
Last time I believe they said around 470 megahertz would be where they would be broadcasting from.
Yes, but this time they haven't said a word about it, so maybe they're not doing that this time.
But it's a very clever way that the Soviets pioneered back in 1958 when they launched Sputnik, a very clever way for proving that they really did launch a satellite.
Because the Soviets knew that the Americans would say, no, the Soviets did no such thing, they never did a satellite into orbit, because we haven't been able to, so why would the Soviets be able to?
But what the Soviets did is they announced over Radio Moscow a VHF radio frequency that people could tune into and listen to a steady beeping sound back in 1958,
and a lot of radio hobbyists listened to it and heard it and said, yep, I'm hearing you can calculate the Doppler shift and be sure that it was really in orbit.
So, if the Koreans have half a brain, they're going to use the same technique and say, yep, tune to this frequency and you can hear it for real.
Well, it's been given the satellite catalog number of 39026 and the international designator of 12-072A for people that follow those kinds of things.
These are identifications that help keep sorted the catalogs of satellites and junk in orbit around the planet. Yes, junk gets catalog numbers too.
So, basically, we don't know what it's there for, we don't know what they're going to be doing, but it is up there now.
It's not geostationary, is it, Bernie?
No, no. It's in a low-Earth orbit, so it means it goes around a lot more often.
For it to be in geosynchronous orbit, it would have to be about 22,300 miles up, and this is considerably lower.
But still, it's a major achievement, and they managed to do it.
It's like 50 years later than the Americans managed to do it.
Well, it's priorities. They got around to it.
They have to feed people to feed and things. So, anyhow, it's an achievement for anybody to pull this off.
What I don't get is why countries like our country object to them putting a satellite up.
They're not allowed to do that for some reason.
It's a satellite. Everybody seems to have satellites these days. Why are the North Koreans prohibited?
Well, there's a very long list of things that the U.S. government feels it and its allies should be entitled to do, but no one else.
There's nothing new there.
Obviously, the United States government owns space.
We planted a flag in space, which I'm sure is still in space.
We didn't plant it in space. We planted it on the moon.
No, no. We planted flags in actual space.
How do you plant a flag in space?
With great difficulty. But what that means is that space is American territory, and everyone else should do what we tell them.
Well, you know, I always ask myself if somebody went to the moon.
By the way, the flag on the moon is now white. It's a white flag. The flag of surrender.
And that's the first thing the aliens will see when they come to Earth. They'll see a white flag.
Because the sun, it bleeds the colors. Those colors do run, and they fade.
We had a whole space program, and we couldn't manage to make some dyes that would stick around.
Apparently not. Apparently not.
But I always wondered if somebody went up there, another country went up there, and knocked the flag over.
Would that be cause for war? It probably would be.
There's probably people in the Pentagon, you know, these square-headed people that would want to start a war or something like that.
I thought they were Pentagon-shaped, not square.
Well, it depends who you talk to.
That's one extra side.
Well, this may not be as big a development as the North Korean satellite, but it is for me.
Today was the first day that I used my MTA EasyPay MetroCard in the subway system.
And what that is, that is actually a step into the 1990s by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.
In having a card that you can use, where you go on the subway or the bus or whatever, and you don't have to keep refilling it.
You don't have to worry about it, because it basically attaches itself to your bank account or to your credit card,
and siphons off the money as it sees fit.
That actually sounds really horrible now that I think about it.
But, you know, I'm going to see how convenient it actually is.
Now, it's not something cool like most cities have, like RFID.
You know, you just tap it onto the turnstile as you come in, or something, you know, along the lines of a smart card.
It's still the same ugly magnetic strip that all MetroCards have, and it looks just like a regular MetroCard,
so it doesn't even stand out in any way.
But it is something where, you know, I don't have to be guessing how much money might be on this thing,
because they never tell you how much money is on it.
You have to go into the subway to find out, or be embarrassed on the bus when you don't have enough.
But I thought this was interesting.
In the letter that they send, they have this little reminder.
As a reminder, do not attempt to refill or transfer value to your EasyPay MetroCard at a vending machine or station booth,
as it will damage the card.
That's right, if you go to a MetroCard machine and try to put money onto your MetroCard, it will damage.
Only the MTA could manage something like this, where their own machines will damage their own cards.
But incompatible systems, apparently.
You know, I haven't tried this yet.
I will try it at some point to see what happens, how it damages it exactly.
So I have had one of these things for a number of years, and I'm not willing to risk damaging it.
Oh, you've had it for a number of years?
Yeah.
Oh, how sophisticated.
It's very handy.
You should get one.
I have one now, but you didn't tell anybody about it.
I told you.
Not on the air? I don't listen when I'm not on the air.
Well, as an early adopter, Mike, is it true that you have to take your MetroCard to Canada to get it refilled?
No, it is not true.
Was that a jab at the smart car?
In fact, the thing about it is you don't have to take it anywhere to get refilled.
It refills itself automatically.
The MTA just siphons money.
Whenever it feels like it, without consulting with you, it's great.
That's another thing that the MTA does now with this amazing EasyPay MetroCard.
It also has online your movements, so you can go online and see where you have been or see whoever is using your card where they have been.
Yeah, you can now get the same level of access to your own data as the New York Police Department can.
Well, I think they can get more than that.
How much more? It's pretty comprehensive.
They can listen to your phone calls and plant microphones in various places, but it's a start.
I already listen to my own phone calls.
Yeah, but they do more, believe me.
They do a lot more.
You can go online and see.
It's not like London.
London is a little bit more complete because you have to hold your card or swipe your card when you leave the system as well.
They can tell where you got on and where you got off.
In New York, at least right now, all they can tell is that you've gotten on at a particular point.
I'm going to log in and see where I've been and see where I'm going.
Hopefully, that will be educational.
Now, I should mention that Bernie should sound a lot better all of a sudden.
Why would he sound better?
I've switched to a direct Skype to Skype connection.
Okay, hold on. Everybody stop. Now, hold on.
First of all, Rob, how did you know, sitting over there on the other side of the room, that Bernie was suddenly going to sound better?
And what exactly happened here?
Because I facilitated this turn of events.
What we did was, before Bernie had called into our phone number that we have forwarding to our Skype,
which goes through the regular phone system and, therefore, still sounds like a phone.
Whereas now, Bernie is connected via his own Skype account to the studio Skype account.
And the Skype quality is actually superior to the phone line.
Well, that's good. That's amazing. Bernie, you sound great.
Why, thank you.
A little distorted, maybe, and you're breathing a bit heavily into the…
Oh, okay. I'll try to stop the heavy breathing.
Yeah, please stop that.
Now, unfortunately, though, we're not going to be hearing you much longer because we're going to be playing some clips.
Well, no, I mean, it's fortunate for the listeners. They're going to love this.
But as far as us being live this week, it's going to be rather limited.
But I do want to go into one story before we venture into that territory because it's very important.
And that, of course, is the Bradley Manning story, which we really haven't covered.
He took the stand at the hearing where he was accused of leaking material to WikiLeaks.
According to this Los Angeles Times article, he swiveled in the witness chair, smiling, occasionally talking over his lawyer.
Talking over his lawyer? Does that mean interrupting him or talking over to his… I don't know. It's LA Times.
In his army dress blue uniform, he appeared even younger than his 24 years.
It was difficult to reconcile the bespectacled Manning's relaxed, almost chatty demeanor with the vast charges against him perpetrating one of the biggest leaks of classified material in U.S. history.
He's accused of providing the anti-secrecy internet group WikiLeaks with hundreds of thousands of U.S. diplomatic cables and classified war logs from Afghanistan and Iraq.
While based in Baghdad as a military intelligence analyst in 2009 and 2010, if convicted, he could face life in prison.
Well, I got to say, he looks good. I see pictures of him. He looks, you know, I do see him smiling.
I do see, you know, he doesn't look completely shattered and defeated, and that's certainly a good thing to see.
Where this goes, how harshly he's going to be treated, what he's going to be accused of, that remains to be seen.
But it's good to finally have this out in the open to some degree anyway.
Yeah, I was very pleased to see him looking so good because given what we, the little that we've heard of his conditions over there where he's been kept,
I had wondered if maybe they had gone further toward breaking him down a bit, which is obviously, I think, what they want to do.
But he seems like he's still doing all right, and it's been, how long has it been now since he was hauled off?
2010.
10, thank you, Bernie.
2010, so it's about two, almost three years.
Yeah, two, three years, and in solitary has he been?
Most of the time.
Most of the time, so yeah, that's rough for anybody.
It is torture, and it is torture when you put somebody in solitary confinement and you make them respond to you every, was it five minutes?
This is how they mess with you.
They say, well, he's on suicide watch.
We have to make sure he's not killing himself, so we're going to demand that he answer us every five minutes around the clock.
And of course, you don't get any sleep when somebody demands that of you.
Things like that.
The point of this hearing, as I understand it, was to discuss his detention conditions, and his lawyer, David Coombs, had been filing a motion to argue that his pretrial confinement conditions were so bad that the charges must be dismissed.
And I don't think that motion has been ruled on yet, but I have a guess how that's going to go.
Yeah, we all know that's not going to go anywhere.
What's interesting also is that Bradley Manning has agreed to plead guilty to certain charges, and this is different.
Usually when that happens, there's a sort of plea bargain with the prosecution, and Bradley Manning has been willing to say, nope, I did it, no conditions.
So that is an interesting tactic.
I'm not sure.
It's called honesty and integrity.
You don't see it often in court, but if he did in fact do it, he should be proud of what he did.
And certainly with the collateral murder video, if he was responsible for leaking that, that is something that I think they should build statues to him about, because we need to know about that.
And certainly so many of the other things that came about that did everything from topple governments to empower people in various ways, disclosure very often is the right way to go.
And there are just way too many secrets, as we all know.
And the New York Times, actually, it's kind of funny, one of their own bloggers has taken the New York Times to task.
I cannot remember the individual's name.
It's not a blogger, it's the public editor.
The public editor had done so in a blog post, taking the paper to task for failing to cover any important aspect of Manning's condition or the Manning situation just in general.
Whereas the New York Times, for those who might not know, were the ones that published the Pentagon Papers and that whole thing.
So they've been strangely quiet about this whole affair.
And they publish the WikiLeaks disclosures as well.
Yeah, they publish the WikiLeaks, they publish journalism based on the leaked material, but they've been keeping shtum about the whole Manning thing.
Alright, unfortunately that is pretty much all we have time to discuss tonight about this.
Next week, of course, we'll be doing a normal show, hopefully.
But right now we're going to go into some recorded audio.
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And this is, of course, only a small, tiny fraction of what has happened, what we have covered.
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And things that step outside our little sphere of influence.
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So many things have taken place in that one window.
And what we're going to do now is present a bit of a collage of some of the highlights from the beginning into periods of time that come closer to the present.
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Let's go back to the beginning.
The number you have reached, 1, has been changed.
The new number is 2. Please make a note of it.
The number you have reached has been disconnected.
This is Off the Hook, the telephone program, a presentation of WBAI.
I'm your host, Emanuel Goldstein.
And you are listening to WBAI in New York.
And you are listening to WBAI in New York.
It's 7.32. Time now for a special presentation, Off the Hook.
Good evening. This is Emanuel Goldstein, and the program is Off the Hook,
dedicated to the telecommunications revolution, computer hackers, phone freaks,
and all those amazing things that you probably don't understand.
So my friend came over, and he logged on to the computer on the other end.
He logged on, and we spent a pretty good deal of time looking at the file structure
of the computer on the other end, and using a few of the functions to see who else was online,
and looking at some of the program names that were on the system.
That's pretty much all we did, altering nothing, and then we left.
We logged off of the system.
Well, enough serious business here.
I have figured out a way to actually hack out the phone system here,
and get through to an AT&T operator, which has been made very difficult.
Now, I'm sorry, but there are people calling on the unauthorized lines,
and they're tying up the outgoing lines, and I just can't allow that.
So I'm going to have to, unfortunately, pick up someone and then hang them up,
and I don't like doing that. If someone wants to hang up on that line voluntarily,
we can save you the embarrassment of actually being hung up upon here on WBAI.
But I am going to have to do that. That's the only way I can get through.
It's just one of these essential things.
Okay, well, since no one has opted to do that, I'm afraid I must get violent
and actually knock somebody off.
There, I've done it.
What, they're back? No, they're gone. Okay.
One moment, please, while we... Now they're back.
This is ridiculous, folks. Someone's got to hang up here,
because I can't make an outgoing call unless I have a free line here.
Someone seems to have given out all the secret numbers,
and now there's... Ah, thank you.
Thank you, sir, or ma'am, or whatever that was.
Now, let me try to make an outgoing call here.
I'm going to get an AT&T operator, but I'm going to have to turn my microphone off
in order to do it in the proper way.
Thank you.
Okay. We're on our way.
AT&T.
Hi, is this the AT&T operator?
Yes, it is.
I'm here, and I'm having a lot of trouble.
I was trying to make a collect call.
My name is Emmanuel, and I just...
I don't understand what's happening at the other end.
I'm getting some strange recording.
I can't really make it out.
Can you help me?
Where are you calling from?
Okay, it's to Dallas, Texas.
It's area code 214,
and the phone number is 951-1797.
Thank you.
AT&T, hold on.
Thank you.
I'm sorry, the number you have called,
or the number you are calling from,
is not a working number.
Okay, you...
I don't understand what she means by that.
214-951-1797?
Yeah, she says the number I'm calling from isn't a working number?
I mean, I've never heard that phrase before.
One second.
AT&T, Dallas?
Yes, Operator.
New York is calling.
Would you please assist me in ringing a number in Dallas?
Okay.
Okay, I have 214-951-1797.
Well, we've dialed the number.
Apparently, the recording comes back
and tells us that we cannot reach the number
because the number we're calling from
is not a working number.
Okay, just a moment, Operator.
Thank you.
Okay, hold on a second.
Okay, I paid my bill.
Would that have anything to do with it?
No, because if you didn't pay your bill,
you wouldn't have been able to get me.
Ah, okay.
Actually, I had to go through quite a bit
to get you in the first place.
I'm sorry, the number you have called,
or the number you are calling from,
is not a working number.
Operator?
Yeah?
I'm getting that same thing.
Evidently, I guess it's...
Well, it hasn't been me.
I mean, I pay my bill every month.
Maybe it's the one that you're calling from.
Hmm.
No, that couldn't be.
How would a recording in Dallas
know that I haven't paid my bill?
That doesn't seem to make sense.
All kinds of ways.
Is there some way that you can...
Evidently, it must be the number
that you're calling into.
Please pledge your support.
Pledge whatever you can.
If you can pledge $25, thank you so much.
We need your help.
And now we're going to go on to
Emmanuel Goldstein,
The Fifth Corner, his special
on computer hackers and the First Amendment.
Thanks so much.
Have a good evening.
I'm Amy Goodman, and keep calling in.
Thanks very much, Amy.
And this is The Fifth Corner.
It is very important that we hear from you at this point.
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Do you know what that is?
That's the First Amendment, folks.
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Very simple, very short,
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And you'll find out how.
With regards to computer hackers,
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That's from you.
Yeah, I mean, that was some great clips
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You can support this radio station
and this is a heck of a thank you gift.
All right, yeah,
and sometimes the shows are long shows,
sometimes they're specials,
all kinds of interesting things,
all kinds of history.
Let's go back and listen to some more
of the news.
You've all seen the headlines.
You've all seen the news.
It's a frightening situation, folks.
Frightening situation.
14 state raid breaks hacking rings.
Teenagers arrested
for hacking crimes.
For breaking into
emergency 911 systems.
Newsletters shut down.
People's homes raided in the middle.
Well, early morning anyway.
At times you don't want to be raided.
Let's put it that way.
It's a lot going on.
A lot going on throughout the country
and most of it is
completely unknown to most of us
because there's no headlines in it.
You see the headlines
but you don't get the story.
Tonight we're going to attempt
to bring you the story
and we have a couple of guests
that will attempt to clear things up
because they're very much involved
in all of this.
And what is it that we're talking about?
Well, possibly the best way
to introduce you to the subject
if you're not aware of
what's been happening
over the last few months.
The best way is to look at
the newest edition of
the Computer Hacker Newsletter
called 2600.
There's a story in the spring issue
which is going to be released tomorrow.
And if you want to subscribe
to this magazine
we're going to be offering
a special deal for people
that want to support this radio station
a little bit later on
so keep tuned in for that.
From the spring edition
of 2600 magazine,
the Hacker Quarterly,
we have an article
entitled For Your Protection.
And folks,
it bears listening to
if you happen to be
a technological enthusiast.
You may not even care
but I can guarantee you
at some point
what happens to these people
will rub off on you.
Make no mistake about that.
All right.
A year ago
we told the stories of
Kevin Mitnick and Herbert Zinn,
two hackers who had been sent to prison.
It was then and still is today
a very disturbing chain of events.
And for asking too many questions.
And we said at the time
that it was important
for all hackers to stand up
to such gross injustices.
After all,
they couldn't lock us all up.
Well,
it now appears
that such an endeavor
may indeed be on the agendas
of some very powerful
U.S. governmental agencies.
And even more frightening
is the realization
that the U.S. government
won't let it happen
as long as all of the hackers
get swept up.
So what, you may ask,
is this program all about?
Well, we come here
and we discuss technology.
Technology gone astray.
Technology run amok.
Technology perhaps
turning upon its masters.
The kind of thing
that most of us
and others have a handle on.
That's why there's much we can learn
through the world of hacking,
through the world of telephone freaks,
and just general education.
Something that there is
certainly a lack of these days.
Technology-wise,
we can't figure out
how to make phone calls.
We can't figure out
how to get our own credit reports.
We don't know what's
in computer files about us.
We don't know
what kind of content
we're going to put it
into.
What I could not imagine
being able to do
when I was 23
with Jeremy
and Murtaz
is making hundreds of hundred
of thousands of
phone calls
about
anybody
there's no way I could get into this is there I have to know the person's zip
code well let me take a wild random guess since I happen to know the person
and I know the phone number getting the zip code should not really be that hard
should it congratulations and thank you for being one of our valued friends and
family customers your calling circle consists of four members and two
nominees if you would like to inquire about a specific member or nominee to
your calling circle press 1 to hear the status of each person in your calling
circle press 2 let's hear status on everybody we will first list your
friends and family circle nominees who are not currently active members of your
calling circle if at any time you wish to interrupt this list press 9 to speak
with an MCI customer service representative press 0 your wife at 2
1 2 3 2 4 1 was an active member of your calling circle but recently changed
from MCI have they moved if so please press 0 for an MCI representative to
update their status by the way we're censoring the some of the phone number
so you won't hear the entire phone at 2 1 2 3 2 4 0 was an active member of your
calling circle but recently changed from MCI now you've been blind all your life
is that correct yeah I like to say no not yet but yeah I was born totally
blind me and my sister were born totally blind really now has that do you think
that's added to your abilities to listen to phone sounds like this it may have
I've met some sighted people that were really good at listening like I can tell
frequencies to within about 1% on the cycles per second for instance 2600 is
that's a tone that originally has been the backbone of controlling the off-hook
and on hooks on long-distance circuits the way you can even dial with that a
number of years ago I whistled back in the 50s and 60s you were known as the
whistler weren't you yeah and that's using 2600 so that's how in case maybe
everybody knows but that's how the name 2600 came out for the magazine that's
correct now could you give us sort of a step-by-step no pun intended view of how
you would use the 2600 Hertz tone you get a dial tone what would you do back
then okay I will simulate what I'll dial a step by speaking of step-by-step I
will actually dial on the regular phone here a step-by-step exchange in a small
town about 100 miles from here and it'll get a fast busy and I'll cut the fast
busy off strictly by whistling so you can actually whistle pulses as well yeah
like two pulses for two and nine pulses for nine so in other words when the
rotary dial had to be transmitted over long-distance circuits it was transmitted
with the on and off pulses of 2600 instead of clicks so 2600 was extremely
important to well it still is in a lot of cases but less and less hold on just
a second okay right back speaking with joy bubbles formerly known as high-rise
Joe now I've got the reorder getting ready to go through so I whistle 2600
which cut that recording off okay now I'll just dial a one just to make things
simple and that's a vacant level in that exchange so we should get that
recording again so that cut it back off amazing I should start off with a
somewhat interesting story in brief and that's that on December 6th 1991 I was
awoken at about 11 o'clock in the morning by two men pointing automatic
pistols at my head claiming to be FBI agents and they were rather jumpy at
that and once they had secured the fact that I didn't have any weapons on me I
don't know how many people sleep with weapons but they threw me a pair of
jeans and escorted me downstairs and basically I was confined to my couch for
a period of about three hours while they proceeded to clear me out of all my
valuable possessions and no reason was ever given of why they were there and
what I was accused of doing
well someone's certainly broken the law in the last couple of months the
Michelangelo virus is spreading wildly all over the place and on March 6th
which more people know now than ever before March 6th is Michelangelo's
birthday and wouldn't he be proud
thank you for calling Michigan Bell's automated CNA Bureau the system is
restricted to authorized personnel only by using your touchtone telephone please
I I was I was bothered by the fact that you so sort of nonchalantly mentioned in
the book how one day a hacker will kill someone and not those exact words and I
thought that was a rather dangerous thing to put in a book such as that
especially when you have people reading the book who simply don't know any
better and how seriously to take the subject matter of the book
I recall that is in the Gail Thackeray section
well I was actually well I didn't quote it directly that those those remarks are
to be more or less attributed to Ms. Thackeray's point of view
although I don't question that a hacker will in fact someday kill someone
you do you think that's going to happen somehow I don't see how anybody can avoid it I mean
you know machines crash I mean anybody who reads Risks Digest right I mean
computers have already killed people on many occasions mm-hmm you know this 9-1-1
system going down you know somebody in Toronto could have died I suppose you
could claim that it was this rascal's fault one way or the other mm-hmm you
know I I wouldn't be surprised if if if people died during the AT&T crash you
know considering I'm one of the older hackers on freaks I should say I do want
everything everything is malfunctioning all around us everything is
malfunctioning it's it's it's truly incredible we're going to be talking
tonight about the technical aspects of the explosion downtown what happened
over the airwaves particularly how many of you were glued to the TV sets
watching as things happen some things went wrong some misinformation was
spread out also we'll be talking about the telephone system how that survived
and how it didn't survive what kind of effect it has on computer systems and
other things along those lines well Mike let me ask you a question which I'm
sure is on the minds of some people what do you do about criminals how do you
wiretap those people that that should be wiretapped let me point out by the way
that criminals who are smart enough to use encryption ought to be smart enough
to know not to use a clipper chip because that is the one form of
encryption that the government is guaranteed to have the keys to and when
you ask the government about this they say well we recognize that we're only
going to capture stupid criminals and I keep thinking well you know if you're
only going to capture stupid criminals you know you can capture stupid
criminals now that's not a particularly deep problem now as far as as far as
various things that have happened in the hacker world we've brought you various
things in the past indictments trials prison terms things like that we've also
brought you happier occasions from foreign lands such as the Galactic
Hacker Party and hackers at the end of the universe and various things like
that but you know the happy times have never really come to us here in this
particular town that's going to change this summer there's going to be a I
guess you call it a celebration of the hacker world it'll be the the 10th
anniversary of 2600 magazine and a coming together of minds from both the
United States and various countries in Europe Asia all over the world and we're
going to have the very first very first American hacker conference of this sort
there are many hacker conferences such as summer con ho ho con def con various
things like that but this is going to be different this is going to be something
right smack in the middle of New York City and we will have a network set up
similar to what we have here we're going to have speakers coming in from all
around speaking on various topics and it will be taking place August 13th and
14th we're calling it hackers on planet earth
yes we're into day 22 of the quest for ISVN
now if you recall we started this almost a month ago
well 22 days ago I guess fiber-optic and myself decided to go out and get us an
ISDN line actually two ISDN lines for the benefit of people that might just be
tuning in for the first time
ISDN line fiber ISDN line yeah what's so great about it why do we need one of
these because we want more bandwidth mm-hmm could do more than one thing at
a time sure exactly okay I want to be able to connect to multiple things at
once we want to do voice and data and video all at the same time right and
that's what the what the 90s must be all about that's what the future of
technology supposed to be all about hey let's see if this is Bernie yes you have
a collect call from to accept the call please dial 9 now if you do not want to
accept this call hang up now can you hit a 9 fiber sure go ahead you are now
connected Bernie yes are you there okay we got fiber on the line too I just got
back from from overseas and I was I was talking about the various cameras and
things that they have over there I'll get back to that story in a minute but I
want to update people with you well you're in a federal prison that's the
whole country over there you know they have they have speed cameras that take
your picture as you speed they have cameras that are hidden in light
fixtures you know you streetlights have cameras in them so you can't see them
they have a camera hidden in birdhouses here well yeah I know about that well
now update us what's going on with you because I've been out of touch for a few
weeks myself so close to four months now my trial date is set for July 31st
and for people who haven't heard about this story before I might the two
charges federal charges against me which are both felonies are a possession of
hardware or software for the modification of telecommunications
instruments for the unauthorized use of telecommunications telecommunication
services which in plain English means I have a CAD a computer program on a
laptop computer that allows allegedly allows someone to program a cellular
telephone to change its telephone number and its serial number the other thing
I'm charged with is possessing a modified touch tone dialer the
government is not alleging that I did anything with either of these these
things a dialer or program they're just alleging that I possess them and that's
enough to coordinate the federal government to warrant a maximum 15 year
prison term on each account do you think the first call will be rebel again I I
hope not it's it probably will be because he always manages to be the
first call so let's see if he's gonna be the first call this time good evening
you're on the air oh I don't believe it how does he do it how do you do this for
one thing that the central office times out after a certain amount of time so
you would have to have been hung up on if you were calling all this time I'm
not how you do it I don't understand I think he's like sitting out in the
hallway somehow he's just taking over the phone line well I'm gonna give out
my new email address you're gonna give out your email address over the radio
while people are getting their pens and papers out yeah I'm sure it's a mad rush
to stationary stores right now people that want your address there's one uh
one other thing to say going back to PGP phone that is that there is going to be
an internet function added to that it seems like that you know the iPhone and
some other products that have come out that allow voice-to-voice communications
through the internet that too will be able to be fully encrypted and thereby
completely safe from prying ears eyes and I saw an advertisement on television
today I didn't get a chance to write down the number but it was something
called digiphone and their their their slogan was never pay long distance rates
again flat rate anywhere in the country as long as you want yeah I'll tell you I
think long long distance as it as an industry is dead yeah okay I think we're
seeing a lot of a lot of indications of that with with things like iPhone and
with things like a new 9x rate structure I think with a lot of things are
changing yeah hi you got DVDs excuse me you got DVDs DVDs yeah well either for
my video recorder or for my CD player or for my computer I mean VDs yeah
well it's it's the standard it's you know that's how you watch videos and
things DVD yeah digital versatile disc no you don't you know when you'll be
having them we don't have that we'll be getting it soon no you won't okay thank
you very much radio shack there will not be getting DVDs anytime soon according
to that spokesperson and a very good evening to everybody this is off the
hook and we're broadcasting live over the radio and over the internet hello to
all you people all around the world oh yes hello indeed that was our first show
that we ever broadcast on the internet and that was a big milestone so many
milestones there Wow I could listen to this for hours and hours you could
listen to it for days and days weeks months if you pledge now to 9 1 7 5 8 0
6 0 2 1 get the entire package of every program we have ever done since 1988 23
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general Bernie what do you think of all that this is amazing but you're right
this is this is like over a thousand is over a thousand hours everything
conceivable related to we reported on so many stories we couldn't possibly
remember them all that's why we had to archive this stuff we just touched on
some of the more humorous stuff but there's some really serious stories that
we've covered over the past nearly quarter century and I think listeners if
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archive of off the hook it's great great audio yeah and you know I wish we could
play more of it I wish we could just listen to this all night long but you
can you've got that power you've got that ability but you got a call because
we're on our way out of here now we we have to be out of here in a couple of
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number 9 1 7 5 8 0 6 0 2 1 have a good night
Oh
Oh
Oh
tribe called red tribe called red