If I could only take these past moments in, I'd, I'd feel it like the tears that clink my face and to say, whoa-oh-oh
And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York where the time is 701 time for a special two-hour version of off the hook
But if they could, they would Bum diddly bum for the best, expect the worst I hope that's understood Bum diddly bum
Bum diddly bum Bum diddly bum Bum diddly bum Bum diddly bum Bum diddly bum Bum diddly bum
Bum diddly bum Bum diddly bum Bum diddly bum Bum diddly bum Bum diddly bum Bum diddly bum Bum diddly bum Bum diddly bum
And good evening to everybody the program is off the hook Emanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening where we're here for two hours because it's the first day the first day of the spring fundraiser here on WBAI and it's it's an important one because well it's how we stay on the air.
Well I'll get into that in a moment but first let me introduce Mike.
Hello.
Rob T. Firefly.
Good evening.
Dot Ritt.
Howdy.
Jim.
Hello.
And down in Philadelphia Bernie S.
Greetings from Pennsylvania.
All right well here we are again with all kinds of fun things.
We have a special program tonight a special program focusing on one particular speaker who has been at pretty much every HOPE conference.
I don't think he spoke at the first one though but he spoke at every single one after that.
If he did speak at the first one it wasn't to an audience or we didn't record it or something but since 1997 this guy has given very interesting seminars and talks.
You usually know if he's speaking or not.
Yeah you would know you definitely know.
So this is something we're going to be highlighting and we're going to be featuring and he's going to be here live in a little while.
But before we get into that I just wanted to give the opportunity for any updates things that might be happening.
Does anybody have any news they'd like to share before we launch into this two hour special.
There's a very interesting situation going on in Brazil.
The collecting society which is sort of like ASCAP the Brazilian equivalent is being investigated for corruption because of course they're corrupt.
It's their business model to be corrupt.
A short investigation well then obviously.
But what's interesting is that they're proposing and apparently taking somewhat seriously a proposal to just destroy the organization and create a new transparent one.
So that if you are listening to some independent artist and then you know you'll know where your money is going.
Your money will be going to that artist rather than just to some randomly selected major label artists.
So we'll watch the situation but it sounds like good news if it happens.
I don't know that sounds like communism pay the artist for their work.
Yeah well it's bound to happen at some point.
This will definitely be worth keeping an eye on because as we know the ASCAP and such agencies are all tied into the record industry in this country which is really ancient and archaic and outdated and antediluvian and just not at all situated in.
Antediluvian?
Yes antediluvian and but it's not at all suited to the technological realities of today's world.
And so it would be really great to see how people form something with full knowledge of how things work today and see if we can make it work.
Okay well now we have a conference coming up in July.
Hope number nine.
Working on it around the clock every day from now until then.
And we just finished a really successful and exciting promotion with the Electronic Frontier Foundation over the month of April.
And it's full steam ahead.
We have all kinds of speakers lined up www.hope.net to see what we have so far.
And that's maybe about a quarter of what's going to be there total.
We have a keynote address by the Yes Men.
We have other keynotes that will be announced in the weeks ahead.
Now hope number nine that implies that there were other hope conferences and yes there were eight other ones.
This is why this one's hope number nine.
Who would like to name them in order?
Anybody?
Anyone want to give it a shot?
I can do it.
Go ahead Bernie without looking at anything.
All right.
Start from the beginning.
In the beginning there was hope.
What does hope mean?
Hackers on planet Earth.
Okay so far you're doing very well.
Keep going.
Was there a reaction to Hacking at the End of the Universe?
Well Hacking at the End of the Universe was an outdoor camping event in Holland that took place I believe in 1993.
And of course the first one, the first indoor one in Holland, the first major one was Galactic Hacker Party in 1989.
So right away they started with their four year cycle starting in 1989.
There had never been a massive hacker conference in the United States up until that point.
Now of course there's Defcon now which I think gets about 15,000 people in Las Vegas every summer.
It's huge.
But back then the first Defcon which took place in 1993, the same year as HEU, only had about 75 people.
So the first hope conference in 1994 which was actually a replacement for Summercon,
it was an annual hacker event that took place usually in St. Louis but sometimes in other cities.
They weren't having it that year for one reason or another.
They asked us if we wanted to do something in New York.
And initially we said no because well at that time our friend FiberOptic was in prison.
And we didn't want to have a big hacker celebration with one of our friends in prison.
So we changed our mind though because we realized this was an opportunity and we could get space in the middle of Manhattan in the Hotel Pennsylvania.
And it might actually change a lot of things.
And I think it did.
I think that was a deciding moment when we had the first hacker event in this country that drew over 1,000 people.
I think there were about 1,500 people there on that particular occasion.
We only had the top floor that year.
And from that point people realized, hey, it's possible.
We can do this kind of thing in the United States.
Because before then people didn't know that you could have something that massive, that big involving hackers without the police coming and arresting everybody.
And once we proved that, you know what, there are interesting speakers.
There are a lot of kids who want to learn things.
And we can make it interesting for an entire weekend.
At that particular time it was only Saturday and Sunday.
It started at about noon, ended at about 7 p.m. every day.
And there was one speaker track.
But that was a big, huge event.
Hope No. 9, four speaker tracks starting at about 9 in the morning on Friday, ending at about 10 p.m. on Sunday.
And a lot of activity on the second floor as well.
Bernie, I've brought you enough time where you can't come up with the name of the second conference.
It was a lot to say.
It's the first one.
We had to explain what the Hackers on Planet Earth concept was all about.
It was an amazing conference.
I had been to several other hacker conferences prior to that.
But this was just the scale of it and the people from all over the world.
It was a really mind-blowing experience.
And it set the stage for the next, what, 18 years of Hope conferences.
Yeah, well, a lot of Europeans showed up to that first one too, which was amazing in and of itself.
But when we did it, it was a one-time thing.
We didn't know we were going to do it again.
And, in fact, it took us three years to get our act together to do the second one.
And, well, okay, why don't you tell us about the second one?
Well, the second one was, of course, named Beyond Hope, which was very cleverly named.
They're all cleverly named.
But Beyond Hope was the only Hope conference that was not held at the Hotel Pennsylvania.
That's correct.
It was held at the Puck Building.
Which is no longer—well, it is the Puck Building, but they no longer have that space.
It's now some kind of—
REI, yeah.
Say that again, Mike?
REI.
REI?
It's not the Italian Broadcaster?
No, that's RAI.
Yeah, very different.
REI, what does that stand for?
I don't know.
Well, it's something Seattle—
It's a sporting goods company.
It's Seattle-based, yeah, because Kyle keeps mocking me about this,
that the Seattle-based store has taken over our old hackerspace.
Well, it's not really hackerspace.
Once we had it over a weekend for Beyond Hope.
What year was Beyond Hope, Bernie?
1997.
That's correct.
Okay.
We had just gotten out of federal prison.
That's right.
We were in prison before then.
Yeah, well, yeah.
Well, FiberOptic beat me to federal prison, but I—
And then you soon followed.
I soon followed.
And you couldn't seem to decide which prison you were going to settle in.
You went to a lot of them.
Yeah, he settled down right away and just did his whole bit in one place,
which we actually took him there.
We had to break him into prison.
But Secret Service had their own ideas with me.
With him, it was the FBI.
With the Secret Service, they shuttled me around different places.
It was in, like, five different prisons for my whole tour.
But, yeah, I actually had to get special permission from the federal government
to attend Beyond Hope.
And I characterized it as a temporary employment opportunity.
And they bought it.
I can talk about that now.
Well, yeah.
But one thing that we had to do, though,
you weren't allowed to speak to other people who were convicted felons,
and FiberOptic was one of those.
So we had you both on a panel talking about your prison experiences,
but we had to construct a makeshift wall so you would not accidentally talk to each other.
Well, and then you sat in the middle, so you could, you know,
I could say, like, well, I heard that Fiber went through this experience,
and you'd say, yes, I heard that, too.
Fiber, didn't you have an experience?
It was this charade to get around the federal laws that would have sent either of us
to federal prison for associating with each other.
All right, we must move on.
So the next conference happened when?
That was 1997, Beyond Hope.
Oh, you're talking about the one after that?
Yes, we must move on.
H2K.
H2K, what year was that?
That was, of course, you know, it was in tribute to Y2K, so it was the year 2000.
Again, another three-year gap between conferences,
so that was the third conference, another three-year gap,
and at that point we were in trouble.
We were being sued by the MPAA,
and we were facing federal court literally the day after that conference.
So it's a fascinating history.
Okay, but after H2K, that's when we started doing the two-year cycle of these conferences
alternating with the Europeans who were doing hacker camps in Germany and in Holland on the odd years.
So what was the one after H2K, Bernie?
Then there was, of course, H2K-2.
That's correct.
And, of course, everyone assumed the next one would be called H2K-3
or maybe H2K-4 because it was in 2004, but no.
No, we kept them guessing and called it the Fifth Hope.
Yeah, because it was the Fifth Hope.
Yes, it was the Fifth Hope.
Okay, and what came after that?
Hope No. 6.
Okay, yes, No. 6.
There's a lot of alliterative to the No. 6 and the Prisoner No. 6,
the famous BBC production.
It was a lot of prisoner stuff going on there.
It was a lot of fun.
It was a lot of fun, and everybody had a number.
All the speakers were numbered.
All the attendees received buttons that were numbered as well.
In fact, we have a lot of those buttons left over,
and we send them out to people who order back issues and things like that.
Okay, continue.
That was 2006.
What happened next?
Oh, that was the Next Hope.
No, you are incorrect, Bernie.
Yeah, incorrect.
What Bernie failed to remember is that in 2008,
we were convinced that the hotel was going to be torn down,
so we were having the Last Hope.
The Last Hope was scheduled for July of 2008.
A lot of people came thinking that there would never be another hope after that.
Of course, at the end of the conference,
we announced that we were simply referring to it as the most recent hope,
the Last Hope,
and that the next conference would be called the Next Hope in 2010,
and that is where we stand now.
The last conference was the Next Hope,
and the next one will be Hope No. 9,
the flip side of Hope No. 6,
and that's it.
That's the whole history.
Yeah, so what we're going to do now,
we're going to launch into our friend Steve Rambam,
who is a private investigator.
You've heard him on this station before,
and if you've been to the Hope conferences,
you certainly were aware of his presence if you didn't actually hear his talk.
What I want to do now is go back to 1997,
which was, Mike, which conference?
Beyond Hope.
That's right.
I just want to make sure you're paying attention.
Beyond Hope in 1997,
this was, I believe, Steve's first talk at a Hope conference,
unless he gave one in 1994 at the first one,
but this is 1997, our second conference, Beyond Hope,
and he's basically predicting a lot of things that will happen in the future.
It was 15 years ago, wasn't it?
Wow, 15 years ago.
And a lot of talk about Equifax, credit agencies, things like that.
Let's just go back in time a little bit
and hear what was of concern to somebody interested in privacy,
interested in investigations, things like that.
Steve Rambam, 1997.
Emmanuel spoke about a case that we completed about six months ago
which made it into the mass media,
and that was a hunt for Nazi war criminals in Canada.
With very little trouble,
we found 161 war criminals in Canada.
And I have to tell you it was...
Thank you.
I have to tell you it was not as a result of my great investigative ability,
although there is that.
It was because that things have changed in the past 10 years.
Information is more open, information is more accessible,
and it's more publicly accessible.
A third of the people that we found,
we found by picking up a copy of the Canada ProPhone
and plugging their names in.
They were in the phone book.
Another third we found, or even more than another third,
by pulling driver license records, motor vehicle records,
property registration, all of which is now online.
Maybe 10% of the people we found
we had to mount a real honest-to-goodness investigation to find.
That sort of accessibility to information
on the part of the average private person...
And I am a private investigator.
I have no more rights to access information than you do.
I can't go into NCIC.
Well, I can go into NCIC, but not supposed to.
I can't go into NCIC.
I can't get toll records,
although about five people have offered me toll records here today.
All of the information that I can access, you can access.
And this has enormously empowered the average person.
Fifteen years ago, when the Jewish community
and the community of people who care in Canada
went to the government after the Duchesne Commission
and said, how many war criminals are there in Canada?
Who are they? Where are they?
The government said, we can't tell you.
It's closed files, but don't worry.
We have everything under control.
Now, as an aside, let me tell you,
since 1979, the U.S. has deported or chased out over 100 war criminals.
Canada has deported one,
which is why we joined with a number of public interest organizations
and mounted the investigation in Canada.
Fifteen years ago, the citizens of Canada had to take the government's word
for who was in Canada and what was available.
Last year, they didn't,
because we had the ability to go out and pull records
and investigate people and knock on their doors and talk to them.
The revolution in the power of computing
and the power of database management
and just simply what is now computer accessible
as opposed to what 15 years ago was only on microfiche
or only on index cards has changed the world.
And I'm not talking about that you can now take a picture of yourself
mooning the camera and put it on the Internet.
I'm talking about driver license records,
motor vehicle records, voter registration.
Almost every newspaper is now accessible
through dial-up services or through the net for free.
And the ability to access at one shot
the work of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of investigative reporters
is an unbelievably powerful tool.
You can now protect yourself
and increase the amount of justice in your life
without having to rely on the government.
You can find out if your nanny,
your nanny that you're planning to hire,
has a criminal record or is a drunk or is a drug user.
You can investigate an employee before you hire them.
You can find your missing father.
You can hunt Nazi war criminals.
You can increase the amount of justice in the world.
Unfortunately, not in my opinion,
but in the opinion of many governments and many large corporations,
that's not a good thing.
For hundreds if not thousands of years,
there has been an information monopoly.
And information really is power,
as you guys know probably better than me.
As an example, let's talk about Equifax.
Equifax is one of the big three credit reporting companies.
They have a file on every single American
who has ever applied for credit, bought a house,
or sneezed in a dark room.
A few years ago, they were planning to sell it on a disk,
something called Marketplace.
There was a big uproar.
They canceled their plans to do that.
The following year, in a public relations campaign,
they announced that they were cutting off private investigators
from access to Equifax.
What a scam.
The fact of the matter is, Equifax,
in addition to being the largest credit reporting agency
in the United States after TRW and before TransUnion,
it is the largest private investigative agency in the United States,
employing more than 30,000 full-time and part-time investigators
who do insurance investigations, background investigations,
and pre-employment checks.
And the truth is, what they were doing was saying,
if you want access to our files and our investigative consumer reports,
don't hire these independent private investigators.
Give us your money.
That's the truth of what happened.
Equifax wants you to have to go to Equifax and pay big money.
They don't want you to be able to spend $5
and access somebody's driving license record
to see if they really are who they are,
to see if their pre-employment application is legit,
to see if you should hire them as a nanny.
They want you to pay Equifax $150 for a pre-employment screening report,
which is what they charge.
All right, we're going to cut away from that.
That was 1997, the Beyond Hope conference.
Steve Rember, I'm talking about the issue of privacy
and data collection and things like that.
You guys notice a lot of references to things that no longer exist,
like ProPhone.
Privacy.
Privacy wasn't quite dead then, I guess.
There was a little bit of it left.
But Steve was on track as far as figuring out how to get the information.
I don't even know what a ProPhone is.
It was a—Bernie, help me out on this.
Wasn't it a CD-ROM of some sort that had a list of phone numbers?
It was like a phone book, right?
Yes, you could buy a database on a CD-ROM of phone numbers.
And it had to pay a fair amount of money.
It wasn't cheap, but you could buy it.
And now you can simply look online and get the same information for nothing.
Practically.
Yeah, and, of course, there's more information now that you have to pay for.
We'll get into that as we move on in this retracing of history that we're doing.
But I want to break here for a moment to let people know that we're offering some pretty interesting things tonight.
First of all, Steve will be in here live in just a little while.
We're on for two hours tonight talking about privacy, private investigations,
all kinds of security issues that occur on the Internet and all sorts of various ways.
And you can kind of see how it's evolving here.
So what we're offering, we have several packages.
So listen carefully to the different packages that we have tonight.
If you're interested in hearing all of these talks and seeing all these talks, too,
because there are a lot of visual demonstrations, a lot of things presented on screens.
It's a good trip down memory lane for those early conferences, but it's also very instructive,
both for the early ones and for the late ones, because the most recent is only about a year and a half ago, 2010.
And you will learn a lot about how to protect your privacy, what privacy is left, what kind of information about you is out there,
stupid things people do that basically advertises all kinds of private data about themselves
and ways that other people take advantage of that.
For a pledge of $75, you will get 15, at least 15 DVDs of Steve Rombaum talks.
That's how many hours that he has been giving these lectures, these seminars.
And let me tell you, people pay huge amounts of money just to go to one of these things.
Obviously not at the HOPE conferences because we make it affordable, but corporate conferences,
you've seen the invitations to corporate conferences.
They can cost thousands of dollars because corporations pay for it, and that's what they pay.
And you have somebody there lecturing about privacy and showing examples, being very specific, answering questions of all sorts.
And you will see for $75, this is one hell of a deal.
Please excuse my language because I feel impassioned about this.
This is something that is an amazing deal.
All of these talks from 1997 through 2010 for a mere pledge of $75.
The phone number is 212-209-2950.
The best part about that is that your pledge goes towards the radio station and keeps us on the air.
Now, I'm not finished.
Did I say I was finished? No, I'm not finished.
We have another offer, another offer also for a $75 pledge, and this is really cool.
I didn't even know you could do this.
But they have these, straight out of James Bond, they have these little cameras now that are hidden in pens.
Pens are things people used to write with.
And literally inside this pen is a video camera, a video camera.
It records video.
It records audio.
And it's something that I didn't know was around.
So while the cops are trying to take away your cell phone that they're worried about you filming them with, you'll be watching them with your pen?
Let me just say, I'm going to pledge for one of these because next time I go through Homeland Security and they give me all kinds of grief,
I won't have my video camera there recording what happens, but I will have a pen in my pocket and I can record it that way.
Now think about all the times that you have various run-ins with who knows what kind of people.
It could be a relative.
It could be a cop.
It could be a complete stranger.
You will have the means to record it.
And wow, this is something.
For a $75 pledge, you will get this particular privacy-themed premium.
Now for a pledge of $125, you'll get both the 15-DVD set and this spy camera pen.
Phone number is 212-209-2950.
Let's have some calls come in so that we can see people interested in this sort of a thing.
I think we see a couple of calls come in.
We'll move on to the next chapter in our saga here as we wander through the years of eroding privacy and increased technology and all sorts of other things that have happened.
But Bernie, this is pretty amazing stuff, isn't it?
It's cool stuff.
I have one of these things too.
It may not be the same model.
You have one of these pens?
No one told me these existed, anything other than in movies.
Well, I first saw them when I was in China with our friend Mitch Altman a couple of years ago.
And they started coming out then.
I mean they were around a little bit before that, but they were extremely expensive.
But the wonders of Chinese slave labor manufacturing has gotten these things down to the point where they're not extremely expensive.
These things are pretty much amazing bits of technology.
And they are something else.
They will just simply blow you away, what they can do.
So it's actually a pen.
I can write with it?
You can write with the pen as well.
You can write with the pen as well.
But wow.
I only found out about this a little while ago, that you can actually walk around and record people.
Record people and have something to play back.
How does this work?
Let's look at this.
Picture of the thing right now.
It's a pen that has, I guess it's a USB connection?
Is that what it does?
Yeah.
So you just plug it into your computer.
You can play back the video.
You don't need any kind of fancy equipment.
And then you can write with it.
You can take notes about what you recorded.
Wow.
With the very camera you used.
I can hardly wait to use this.
This is something that I think, I'm not really into recording everything.
And I do like to have privacy, but I also like to have ammunition against things that are happening.
And imagine all the Occupy Wall Street things that are going on.
Everybody's got a camera.
Everyone has a phone.
Everyone has a smartphone or just something that they're holding recording.
But you can see that people are recording.
This is very surreptitious.
You don't know somebody is recording.
And sometimes that kind of a thing is very valuable.
Very valuable.
212-209-2950.
Again, for a pledge of $75 you get that.
For a pledge of $125 you get that.
Plus the 15-DVD Steve Rombaum seminar set.
And it's really pretty amazing.
212-209-2950.
I don't know if this thing is working.
So I don't know if the calls are coming in.
It should be yellow, but they're all green.
So if you're thinking about calling in, please call in now so we at least know it's working.
And then we can proceed accordingly.
Yes, go ahead, Rob.
So that's a $75 pledge, which could get you 15 DVDs of Steve Rombaum's talks over, what is it, 13 years of evolving issues and things going on in the world of privacy and security.
It's worth it not only for the information that you can apply today, but for the historical value of where we've been and where things have been in the path everything's taken over those years.
So this is massively educational.
And I can think of so many stupid DVDs, which would cost you more than $75 for 15 of them.
Right, right.
These are actually very fascinating and very interesting things, and you can get that for a pledge of $75.
Just to give you a sense of the value of these DVDs, right before the program I saw Steve, and we made a set for him.
We made a set of all the DVDs that he has appeared in from 1997 until now, and I handed it to him, this package.
He openly wept.
He'll never admit to it, and good thing he's not in the studio right now because he would deny it strongly.
But, yeah, it's a very emotional thing when you give somebody something that incredible, that amazing.
And you will openly weep too when it arrives in the mail because it's a good thing, not because you're disappointed.
Do we include like an onion in every?
No, we don't do that.
And you will learn so much.
You will learn an incredible amount.
Okay, we're going to move on because calls are coming in, and that's great.
We want to move on to, okay, which one is the next one?
Fifth Hope, which is the year 2004.
Did you have something to add, Red?
I was just going to add that in addition to the educational value, sometimes you might be listening to things that we or others, say, at Hope are talking about and think this is interesting, but is it really true?
You have 15 years' worth of a tracker to go back and see just how on point someone like Rambam has been for 15 years straight.
Yeah.
And then the most recent ones as well, and it's very interesting to listen and watch.
Even when the technology becomes outdated and it changes, it's still on track because you see how it was applied.
You see the mentality behind both the technology that was used to invade privacy and also the thought behind trying to preserve what little privacy is left.
You see how that's changed over the years.
And there's also just nothing really new under the sun.
A lot of these techniques that are newer that we use today are based on just reapplications of things that have been around.
And it's just very, very valuable and guaranteed.
Every single DVD is full of something that you could take away and really use.
Okay.
So now we're going to move on to 2004.
We just heard 1997.
This year, in 2004, Steve talks a little bit more about the erosion of privacy and how things have changed since his last talk only two years before then.
Let's listen.
It's true that during H2K I had a rather strong difference of opinion with Jello Biafra.
Unfortunately, during the past two years, I have been driven a lot, well, kicking and screaming a lot closer to his position.
In the past two years, we've seen in this country an enormous erosion of personal privacy, personal liberty, personal rights, and especially right to privacy.
It has always been considered in this country to be a basic human right, the right to privacy, the right to be left alone, as it was once described by the Supreme Court.
That right and the ability to keep your affairs private, even your most intimate affairs private, has now been completely eliminated.
There has been a lot of debate over the past two years about the Patriot Act, about total information awareness, terrorist information, Action Network, the DARPA activities.
What I hope to do today is to give you enough information, more than enough information, regarding just what's available out there on each individual person and to help you make an informed decision about the Patriot Act, about DARPA's projects, about, frankly, the upcoming election.
Wozniak gave me the best segue that he possibly could when he started talking about what was fundamentally American.
In this country, there's always been a level playing field or, in theory, a level playing field between the government and the private citizen.
Supposedly, the government was not entitled to anything that you weren't entitled to.
Information was supposed to be free.
If there was a property record, you were entitled to that record.
If there was a voter registration, you were entitled to see that voter registration.
If someone compiled a file on you, you were entitled to see that file, if for no other reason than to correct the errors in it.
What has happened over the past two years, like never before in the history of the United States, is that your most intimate secrets, your most confidential information, has been catalogued, cross-referenced, data-mined, compiled, conglomerated, and made available to the U.S. government by private industry.
And because it's been made available by private industry, law and regulation doesn't control it.
You have no right to look at it.
Freedom of Information Act doesn't cover it.
Now, there are very, very good reasons for information to be out there and to be available.
If you're hiring a nanny, you should be able to determine if this nanny was a child molester or charged with assault.
If you have a housekeeper, you have a right to know if this person's been arrested for burglary.
If there's a school bus driver, you really have a right to know if that person has a drunk driving conviction before he drives your kid.
If you hire an employee, it's probably useful to know if this person's ever been involved in an act of workplace violence.
If you lend somebody money, you should know what their credit rating is.
All of these things make sense.
They especially make sense when you talk about public figures.
You have a right to know what John Kerry's military record is.
You have a right to know what George Bush and Cheney's financial dealings were.
Information should be available to everyone equally.
That's basic American philosophy.
What I'm going to do over the next half hour or less is give you the Reader's Digest version of databases, privacy, what's available out there.
I'm then going to take one or two victims from the audience, one or two volunteers from the audience, and I'm going to...
Unfortunately, I've just been handed a Social Security number.
Unfortunately, when we get to that, the person whose Social Security number this is is going to have to stand up and volunteer.
I'm not going to just randomly run an SSN.
This is probably Jack Valenti's Social Security number.
Yeah, I'm not so stupid.
What I'm going to do is I'm going to give you the Reader's Digest survey of what's out there.
I'm then going to demonstrate what's out there rather graphically by logging on to what's called a personal reference database and running a couple of people here.
Then we're going to do questions and answers because, frankly, your questions usually elicit better information than I would ever think to speak about on my own.
Okay, and that was from 2004.
The Fifth Hope, Steve Rambam talking about the steady erosion of privacy that was well underway back then.
We are offering a 15-DVD set of Steve Rambam talks that have taken place since 1997 and basically outline all the things that have happened that affect you, affect your privacy, affect all the data that has been stored and is continuing to be stored about you and about everybody.
How we sort of have this, I don't know, it's kind of like a contagion of information that just is being shared by everybody so that there's really very, very little privacy left.
It's kind of a scary thing, but it's real, and this is how you learn about it.
So for a pledge of $75, you will get this entire DVD set, all 15 DVDs.
It might even be more than 15.
It's at least 15 DVDs and seminars from Steve Rambam from 1997 all the way through 2010.
$75 pledge, 212-209-2950.
Again, for another $75 pledge, you'll get one of those amazing spy camera pens that we're going to be playing around with quite a bit.
That's going to be a fun toy to have.
For a pledge of $125, you get both.
You get the spy camera pen and you get the seminar set.
Hang on a second.
Your mic's not on.
There you go.
With all your pledges, you get membership into the station and you help keep us on the air.
That's right.
That's a very important thing to mention that these pledges keep us on the air.
So if you don't have $75, you can pledge less than that and help keep us on the air.
If you have more than $125, you can pledge extra and keep us on the air for even longer.
Now, Steve is in the studio now, but we're not going to let him talk until somebody calls in.
I know that the thing works.
We have him tied up in the corner.
212-209-2950.
So if you're on the fence and you're thinking about calling in, this is your opportunity to open the floodgates and have Steve speak live in the studio.
We're not holding him hostage.
We're not holding you hostage.
We're just trying to, you know, provoke you a little bit and get things going here.
So that's all it takes.
One person calling 212-209-2950 saying, gosh, gee whiz, that's a good deal.
$75 for a whole seminar set.
$75 for a spy camera pen.
$125 for both.
Sign me up.
212-209-2950.
Of course, the most important thing is to keep the radio station going.
Dot Red.
Yeah.
If you like what you hear, if this show entertains you, that's more than reason enough to call in because, you know, a lot of what you hear, you're not going to find anywhere else, whether it's Off the Hook or another show on this station.
Because, after all, this station and the shows that are on it are what you're pledging for.
These are just thank you gifts that we give back to you for, you know, thank you very much for helping to keep the station running.
But what you get is the continued existence of a station that, quite honestly, there really isn't a replacement for otherwise.
I see calls coming in.
But I want to make sure that these are real calls and not just people ringing the phone so that we untie Steve and have him start speaking to us.
He is getting impatient and hungry, too.
I can't read that.
Yeah, that's – yeah, it depends that we have, I believe.
Right?
Yeah.
Bernie, go ahead.
I just want to point out our more astute listeners – in fact, all of our listeners are astute, but our especially astute listeners will realize that we just said that there were eight different HOPE conferences to date.
And coming up to HOPE No. 9 this July 13th, 14th, 15th.
So how would it be 15 DVDs?
Well, we should explain that.
Steve Rambam's talks are so full of useful and incredible information that they last longer than the one-hour typical HOPE talks.
So typically Steve Rambam's talks go on for a couple hours or so.
And that is why we need 15 DVDs to hold all of this incredible information.
And that's why we decided to put all of this together in one incredible database to our most supportive listeners who call 212-209-2950.
15 Hackers on Planet Earth DVDs with Steve Rambam talks going all the way back to 1997 or $75 for an amazing camcorder pen.
It's a camcorder and a pen and a USB flash drive all in one.
Do some real spy work with that.
Or you can get both for only $125, the 15 DVD set and the camcorder pen, calling 212-209-2950.
And it was just pointed out, this is really our thank you gifts to our most supportive listeners who want to keep this station on the air, but more importantly WBAI on the air.
Because the only radio stations that are going to give you this information.
Okay, get the last bit of rope out.
Okay, we have Steve on Tide now.
Thank you, Mike.
And we have calls coming in.
We want to thank those people online who have called in.
212-209-2950.
Welcome, Steve.
Sorry about the rough treatment there.
Not a problem.
You're used to it.
Handcuffs were a little chafing.
You're used to it.
We're going to get to that one next.
The next conference that we're going to speak at.
2006.5.
Hope No. 6.
Yeah, we'll tell that story in a moment.
But first of all, welcome you to the studio.
And you know, you have spoken more than Jell-O Biafra at our conference.
And that's saying a lot because he's talked quite a bit at our conferences.
And I've been wearing more clothes than he has when I spoke to him.
Well, that's another thing, yes.
But you have talked at every conference.
Well, we can't find any record of you talking at the first conference.
I did.
I was on a panel.
Because we don't have a recording of that.
We don't.
I want to say it was 1994.
1997 you were definitely there at the Puck building.
But you were there in 1994.
I don't know if you spoke in 1994.
I was on a panel.
Okay, if anybody was at the first conference.
I came as an attendee.
A big butterfly net was thrown over me.
And I ended up on a panel.
No, I really, I came as an attendee.
I actually paid for a ticket.
A couple of people there who knew me grabbed me and roped me into it.
And after that, I guess I was, as they say, critically well received.
Well, yeah, apparently.
Because that's what spurred you to give a talk at every single conference after that.
And that's what we're offering tonight.
That and blackmail.
We have four calls on the line.
That's pretty good.
Well, let's focus on this a little bit.
These spy camera pens.
Now, you're a private investigator.
I didn't know that this kind of technology was, I mean, I knew it was around.
But I figured it was hugely expensive and only people like you might have them.
Demand and evil Chinese manufacturing have brought the prices of these things dramatically down.
So not only can we offer these pens.
And by the way, they're not Chinese.
They're considerably better made than that.
Well, let's not have too many people writing in or calling and debating this issue.
If you are listening from Shanghai, I love you.
But at any rate, the demand and manufacturing has brought the prices down.
And also, you know, we're offering the key fobs also, which are high definition two-hour DVRs built into something that looks exactly like a key fob to click your alarm on and off remotely.
So we're getting key fobs and pens.
You can make your choice.
And I gather you haven't revealed the big pledge yet.
There's another one.
We'll do that next break.
We'll do that next break.
But okay, so if you would prefer a key and if you're already called in, call back and say you want a key fob instead.
Right.
Basically, you have a choice of either a pen or a key fob that records in high definition video and audio for two hours with a built-in battery.
And you can use it for whatever nefarious intent you have in mind.
Now, is that better quality than the pen?
I think the key fob is actually 1080 high def.
And the pen, I'm sorry, the key fob is 1080 high def.
And the pen, depending on the pen, is either going to be 720 high def or 640 not high def.
Okay.
Well, we'll send you the best of whichever one of those two there is.
Correct.
How about that?
You know what?
I'll commit that either one is going to be high def.
Okay.
Unless you have a strong preference, we'll send you one of these two.
And they're both really cool.
And they record in just amazingly good, literally courtroom quality.
I've introduced these into evidence in more than one trial.
Okay.
So let's say I'm being interrogated by Homeland Security or something like that when I come into the country next.
And of course, obviously, it's probably not legal to do this.
But let's just say that I don't care.
I have a pen in my pocket.
Correct.
How would I point it at them?
How does that work exactly?
The clip holds it.
When you put the clip in your pocket, it holds it so that the camera is oriented directly ahead.
And it's, I believe, a 67 degree field of vision.
So, you know, whether they're smacking you from the left or smacking you from the right, it should get that.
Interesting.
Okay.
Well, that's handy to know.
And I do want to try this.
Now, sound quality?
That was a joke, by the way.
Of course.
Sound quality, though, it does have audio as well.
There's a built-in chip mic.
It's decent.
It's decent.
I mean, it's not.
Yeah, it's not like a professional AV installation.
Correct.
I would expect it to be.
But it's just incredible, the technology that exists these days.
I mean, I guess it shouldn't be that much of a surprise.
But this is a pen.
It's also an operational pen.
I've walked into a bar with this pen in my pocket.
And two hours later, the person I was looking for showed up.
And I was just sitting there drinking a beer.
And they came over.
And I chatted with them and left.
And by the time I was done, there was more than three hours of video.
It records to a mini SD.
Okay.
And, I mean, we were able to introduce this into evidence at a trial.
Really?
Yeah.
Are there situations where it might not be legal to do this,
other than me being interrogated by Homeland Security?
That may be one of the instances, by the way, where it's not legal.
You'd have to check on that.
This is where I throw in the usual disclaimer.
I'm not an attorney, thank God.
And, Bernie, you're not an attorney either.
But I think you might have something to say about this.
Well, this is a particular area of law that interests me.
So I've done some research on it.
But I'm no lawyer.
So don't take legal advice from me.
There's federal laws under the Federal Wiretapping Statutes.
It is a felony to record another person's voice without their knowledge
in a sort of covert situation.
Like if you were in a restaurant,
where they would have no reasonable expectation of privacy,
then it probably would not be something that would be prosecuted.
But there are situations where somebody would have a complete expectation of privacy.
And if you recorded their audio,
there's no federal laws on recording video, as far as I know.
But there's a lot of states, there's 12 states,
that also have felony statutes on the books for covert audio recording.
And some on recording video, like in a bathroom stall or something like that,
which never listeners would do, I'm sure.
But just be careful.
Pennsylvania happens to be one of those states.
But here in Philadelphia, our police commissioner, Ramsey,
has issued a memo to all his officers to not arrest anybody
who uses a cell phone or camcorder to record their police on duty,
because they were doing that routinely.
And so now you can do that in Philadelphia legally.
Well, Bernie, you're three of the smartest people I know,
so I don't want to disagree with you.
But the law that typically governs this sort of thing,
and I tell you this as an investigator for almost 30 years, is state law.
And the consideration is, is it one-party consent or all-party consent?
And what I tell investigators that I'm training, the example I give them is,
in New York, which is a one-party consent law, one-party consent rules,
I can walk into a boardroom with 50 people in the room
with a briefcase recording the meeting, and I can record that meeting,
but the minute I put down that briefcase and walk out of the room,
and I am no longer a party to that conversation, I've broken the law.
Anyone who wants to can Google the words,
can we tape, in quote marks, and the Reporters Committee on whatever,
I forget exactly what the heck it's called,
but they actually keep constantly updated for their members
the regulations from state to state.
Federal laws kick in when you're doing something across state lines.
For example, if I'm calling you from New York and you're in California
and I'm recording the conversation.
It's the same website I referred to, and it's a great website.
It breaks it down state by state.
It talks about the federal laws.
What's the URL?
If you just use a search engine to search for can we tape, you will find it.
It's a great website.
It gives you all the information about where you can record.
It's more aimed towards a telephone recording,
but it also goes into recording with a tape recorder
or something like one of these camcorder pens or key fobs.
The bottom line is you can have a lot of fun with this thing
besides just recording someone without their knowledge.
I've seen people strap these things to their bicycle helmets
or to model airplanes or just putting it on the street
and seeing people walking by and seeing what they're doing.
It's an amazing tool for investigation and fun,
and you can have it by calling 212-209-2950.
That's $75 for the camcorder pen or the key fob
or $75 for 15 Hope DVDs of Steve Rambam talking about privacy and technology
or you can get them both for $125.
$125. 212-209-2950.
You said it as a joke, Bernie, but there was actually just last week
some people in Berkeley who were filming their bike ride
and a car hit them.
They were lucky enough.
They were not seriously injured,
but they were lucky enough to have in the video the license plate of the car
so the police tracked them down and were charged with a hit-and-run,
so you could do the same with this premium.
Well, if you're lucky enough to get hit by a car, yeah, I guess.
Wow.
You will make quite a profit off that $75 pledge if you get a hit-and-run.
I mean, try to swerve in front of a Mercedes.
Yes, okay, unless they're recording too and they see you do that.
212-209-2950.
Quite a unique offering we have here tonight.
I want to move on to 2006, though, and that was a very interesting year for you, Steve.
Hope No. 6 at the Hotel Pennsylvania,
you were scheduled to give a talk,
and for the first time you didn't show up for your talk,
and you had a very good excuse.
No, no, no.
I showed up for my talk.
I was actually there for 15 seconds.
Yeah, but you weren't on the right floor.
You were trying to get to the right floor.
Yeah, that's true.
And you were intercepted.
What exactly happened?
Well, I had been doing an investigation
and determined that a rather important federal informant, provocateur,
whatever you want to call him,
who was operating under the name of Franz Josef von Habsburg-Lothringen
and claiming to be the crown prince of Austria
and inveigling hundreds of people into putting themselves in a situation
where they could be falsely arrested,
and it was invariably false arrests.
We found out that his name was Joseph Myers.
He was a former committed mental patient in Detroit, Michigan,
and that he was a bad man.
Along the bad man lines, let me tell you that long after this thing happened,
because I try to even the scales of justice,
he is now doing 15 years in prison in Michigan.
And is he in fact the crown prince of?
No, he is Joseph Myers, a former mental patient.
Okay, but he still could be a crown prince.
I'm sure he thinks he is.
Well, there are insane members of royalty,
but I don't want to get into that.
Yeah, but most of them don't make a million dollars from the FBI.
We don't know.
We don't know. That's true.
But the FBI was rather upset at me,
and they subpoenaed my investigative file.
And it's just not something that an ethical investigator does.
You don't release your investigative file,
especially if you're working for an attorney, and it's exempt.
It's an attorney work product.
So they became rather peeved at me,
and they showed up in raid jackets with shotguns.
At our conference.
Well, you know that as well as I do.
Marched in there and rear cuffed me and marched me out of there.
Now, mind you, the following Monday,
a judge gave them a judicial enema and released me,
and the charges were, of course, dropped.
But it was too late for the conference.
Well, not necessarily, because I will say one thing about HOPE.
HOPE has been as loyal to me,
especially in this case as I've been to HOPE,
and we did reconvene for 2006 version 1.1.
Yes, we went to New Jersey, I think it was in October,
for the final talk of the HOPE conference.
That was my punishment.
I had to do it in Jersey, but yes.
So what you're about to hear now is an excerpt
from the postponed Steve Rombaum talk
that wound up taking place at a totally different venue
in New Jersey months later.
Let me preface this by saying
both of the prosecutors were, as they say,
returned to the private sector,
and of the five agents in that unit,
five FBI agents,
one is now in prison in Texas,
one is under investigation by his former office
for campaign fraud,
and one has quit.
We don't know what happened to the other two.
All right.
Now, if you call 212-209-2950,
you will get this talk
that we're about to play an excerpt from,
where we discuss, or Steve discusses,
some of the older social networks
that were in place at the time.
They weren't old then,
but you'll see the differences.
But not the differences in what it is
that they were attempting to do,
how privacy was being threatened,
and all the other things
that Steve is so good at explaining.
And in addition,
you'll get all the other Steve Rombaum seminars
and talks that we include with the HOPE conferences,
15 DVDs for a pledge of $75,
212-209-2950,
and for either another pledge of $75,
or for everything, for $125,
you'll get the amazing spy camera pen
that you can record all kinds of amazing things
from the comfort of your own pocket.
212, or the key fob,
or 212-209-2950,
that's our phone number,
so let's have some calls come in.
And in addition,
oh yeah, one other thing,
in addition to that,
if you get the DVD set,
you will get the talk that Steve didn't give
because we had to announce to the crowd
what had just happened,
and you had some other distinguished people
fill in for you,
and we had a pretty interesting talk.
You just weren't there.
So that's also included as kind of a bonus.
And by the way,
I still haven't seen that talk.
Yeah, and I just gave you a whole pile of them,
so you have some viewing to do.
I know, I have to watch that.
212-209-2950,
that's our phone number,
so let's have some calls come in
while we listen to this from 2006,
HOPE number 6, Steve Rombaum,
at the HOPE conference at the Hotel Pennsylvania.
Let's listen.
Okay, if we could have your attention.
Ready, everybody here?
Actually, not the Hotel Pennsylvania,
this is New Jersey.
Welcome to the final talk of the HOPE conference.
It's...
applause
I want to thank you all
for braving the elements to get here.
I want to thank Stephens for allowing us to be here.
I want to thank Arseny for arranging all of this
and making it possible.
applause
And of course, the person to really thank
is the person who stuck through a lot of hell in July
and came back to give the talk
that he wasn't able to give in July,
Steve Rombaum.
applause
Thank you.
applause
As Eric pointed out,
this is quite a bit of unfinished business.
Three months late,
but better late than never.
Where is Arseny, by the way?
Before I start,
I just very much want to thank Arseny
for setting this up.
I got an email from him out of the blue.
He said,
I understand that no idea who he was,
didn't have any affiliation with 2600 that I knew of.
He sent an email to me.
I think I was actually in the Far East at the time.
And it said something along the lines of,
my name is Arseny Lebedev
and I would like you to come to
Stephens Institute of Technology
and give this speech.
And we emailed back and forth.
First of all,
I didn't believe that
somebody with the name Arseny Lebedev existed.
And basically,
he just kept saying,
come to Stephens on the 16th.
Everything will be fine.
Can you make it?
How big a room do you need?
And I'm thinking,
sure, Borat,
I'm going to fall for this.
I expected to come here and find a guy
in a shiny gold thong
with a wrestling bear or something.
It's tomorrow.
That's tomorrow.
Come back after 12.
The fact that this late in the game
with crappy weather,
out of nowhere,
that we have a standing room only crowd
is entirely due to Arseny.
So,
give him money,
buy him food,
do something.
Thank you.
Let me very quickly tell you
what we're doing here today.
This is normally part of
an eight-hour full-day course,
which is half a day computer-aided investigation
and half a day foreign investigation.
The computer-aided investigation portion,
which we've modified into a privacy seminar
for 2600,
is essentially designed
to teach investigators,
law enforcement,
people with a genuine need to know
how to track people down
and find things out about them,
how to do it before they go out in the field.
Computer-aided investigation and database access
is now an essential part
of any investigator
or law enforcement officer's toolkit.
And then in the afternoon,
we move on to the foreign investigation portion of it,
where we cover
what to do if they have to go out of the country.
Over the years working with 2600,
we've put together a speech,
and we've realized that privacy is, in fact,
the mirror image of database investigation.
You can't talk about
access to people's personal information,
and you can't talk about who can access it
without discussing what's out there
and who should be able to access it.
As part of the seminar
that I was supposed to give 90 days ago
and that I'm giving tonight,
we asked for a volunteer.
We asked for a victim,
somebody to call in or write in
and allow us to essentially invade his privacy,
find out everything we could about him.
And we got a number of volunteers.
Most of them were people who were either too young
or too nice to have any sort of history.
Thank goodness a guy by the name of Rick Dakin volunteered.
Now, Rick is very active in the online community.
He's also a writer.
He most recently wrote Geek Mafia.
He's a pretty remarkable guy,
and there's a ton of stuff about Rick.
And Rick is a very colorful guy,
so not all of it is just simple
where does he live and where does he work stuff,
as you'll see.
Because of Rick's cooperation,
we were able to put together a program,
which you'll see in a second,
that allows us to talk about
what's out there in private hands,
proprietary databases, corporate databases,
credit bureaus, non-governmental databases.
Let me just dismiss governmental databases today
by saying everything that you see us do here today
the government has 50 times as much,
and they have access to everything
that you're going to be seeing today.
We're not going to talk about NCIC, FinCEN,
which is where all your financial history is,
TEX, TEX2,
any of the incarnations of the databases
used by what used to be Treasury,
what's now Homeland Security, that sort of thing.
We're not going to talk about that.
We're going to talk about stuff
that a skilled private investigator
or a governmental investigator
with access to private databases can access.
What we're also not going to do today
is what I'm not going to do today
is have a point of view.
I'm going to lay this out for you
in as neutral a manner as possible.
Now, granted, seven FBI agents in raid jackets
coming in the first time I try to give this speech
has sort of skewed my opinion somewhat,
but still, I am not convinced
that on one hand,
all the databases need to be closed,
or on the other hand,
all the databases need to be open to the world.
I mean, there are legitimate reasons for access,
and we're going to be talking about that.
So as I say in all the talks I give,
I'm not going to tell you what to think,
but I am going to try to tell you
what to think about.
Database collection has been around forever.
Since the days of the Bible,
people have been counted,
people have been pigeonholed,
people have been categorized.
Here's what's different in the past 10 years.
First of all, computing power and speed.
I have now in my office
more data and more data storage space
than the FBI computers had 10 years ago.
Storage space, you can go now to a store
and get a 750 gig drive for, what, about 300 bucks.
You can set up an array of computers
that will process whatever data you gather
so quickly that 10 years ago,
you would have had to use
literally a Cray supercomputer
to do the equivalent amount of computing.
Everything, everything is now in digital format.
Everything you do when you fill out an application,
when you buy an item,
when you make a telephone call,
when you go through an EasyPass lane
or use a MetroCard,
everything is already in digital format,
which means taking it, putting it in a database,
analyzing it and indexing it,
never has to be touched by human hands.
You today, not some third party
typing in front of a terminal,
you are contributing all the data about you.
OCR, optical character recognition.
Even the old data,
the stuff that's on paper forms
20 years ago, 30 years ago,
is being OCRed at the speed of light
and it's being sucked into databases.
And why?
Because data is worth money.
You access a database,
you typically pay a substantial flat rate
to access that database.
It can be thousands of dollars a month
or you pay per search.
And the more hits the user gets,
the more money the database provider gets
and the happier they are.
So they're going to keep sucking in info
so you'll pay for access to it.
People are also willingly,
and we're going to talk about this
in great detail tonight,
people are also willingly
contributing enormous amounts
of personal data about themselves.
When I say personal,
I don't mean their address and phone number.
I mean ridiculously personal things.
You go to MySpace pages,
people talk about drug use,
sexual activity, religion,
sexual orientation, politics,
things they won't tell their own family,
anybody who accesses their MySpace page
is going to be able to determine immediately.
And by the way,
all of that data,
there are bots right now,
my bots, other people's bots,
running through MySpace,
running through Friendster,
running through Bebo and everything else,
sucking down that information
and categorizing it.
Wow.
From 2006, MySpace, Friendster,
I remember those things.
They've been swallowed whole.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, we've got a special Google section
coming up in just a little bit.
We'll play that a little later on.
But that's just one of the DVD set.
That actually was a three-hour talk
that you gave at the Stevens Institute
in New Jersey,
the postponed talk
because of all the activity
at Hope No. 6.
It goes with all the other talks
that Steve Rombaum has given
over the years
about privacy and technology
and all that.
Of course, your hard drive prices
were rather high,
but that was 2006.
Things have changed very quickly.
Let me just remind everyone of one thing.
This was not a
let's stick it to the man conference
that we did at Stevens.
There were close to 50 investigators
and law enforcement officers
in that crowd that night
showing their support.
There were Secret Service guys there.
There were IRS CID people there.
There was at least one federal marshal.
There was a guy from the NYPD.
There were probably 40 or 50
private investigators.
But there wasn't a team of FBI agents
that took you away, right?
No, there wasn't.
And so far, they have not come back.
Okay.
Well, that again is one of eight,
actually seven conferences
that Steve has given talks at
that we are offering tonight
for a pledge of $75,
15 DVDs,
212-209-2950.
And you will also get
a special spy camera
if you pledge $75
or $125 for everything.
You'll get the spy camera
and you'll get the Steve Raumbaum seminar set
for $125,
212-209-2950.
Spy camera is a great thing to have.
Something that basically
was only in the hands of
private eyes and spies
and people like that
only a couple of years ago.
And now it's something that
you can actually start playing with.
Just a program note,
this is not the Personal Computer Show.
Yes.
This is also WBAI New York
to give a legal ID.
The Personal Computer Show
is usually on during this time period,
but we have locked doors
and kept them from coming in
because we believe
that we can do a better job
of getting people to call in this week.
Actually, that's not what happened.
We were told to stay here an extra hour
and they were told not to come in.
Next week, though,
I believe they're on for two hours next week.
So everybody will be happy,
especially the listeners.
212-209-2950.
We're on for another
almost 50 minutes
till nine o'clock.
And we're only going to be offering this
for that period of time.
Again, 212-209-2950.
Take advantage of this special offer.
$75 for the spy camera
or $75 for the seminar set
or 125 for all of it.
The spy camera,
the seminar set,
and which includes 15 DVDs.
You'll learn a lot about privacy,
about how it's eroded over the years.
And from a real expert,
Steve has been doing this
for a long, long time, right?
You've been at this for a while.
I'm starting my 30th year
as an investigator.
Incredible.
And the things you've found out
and the things you've looked up.
A few more years,
I'll be in the old detective zone.
Trust me.
He knows of what he speaks.
I've had occasion
to ask him for a favor or two over the years.
And wow, I was very impressed.
And that ties into something else
we're going to be offering in just a moment.
But Rob, I believe you have something.
Yeah, I just want to mention
for the benefit
because we get the emails
every week that we do this.
If you're listening to this after the fact,
we cannot give you our premiums.
We can only do that during our live broadcast.
But if you'd like to support our show
and our station at any other time,
you can go to WBAI.org.
You can make a donation
in the name of Off The Hook,
so it counts toward our show.
And there are some other premiums
that you can select.
Why, Rob?
Why can't we give away the premiums
all the time,
24 hours a day,
beyond the fundraiser,
all that?
Why not?
Because that would be a lot of premiums,
and we would all go terribly, terribly broke.
Yes.
Our premiums are all donated.
We're not getting paid anything for them.
So like our time here,
it's a donation,
and it's something that we give
to make the station
a little more enriched.
So what you're saying, though,
is that if you are a real living person
here at 813 on Wednesday,
then you should pledge,
and maybe you can sell your premiums
at a markup to someone
who's not a live person.
Yes, indeed.
And you can do that by calling
212-209-2950,
country code 1.
We have three calls on the line.
All right.
Yes, as Rob said,
you only have about 50 minutes left,
and that is it.
And these fantastic premiums,
you won't be able to get them anymore.
And because we can't give these out
all the time,
these are, as I said before,
thank you gifts.
We are thanking you
for supporting the station.
The station does not,
we don't pay the station for these.
We don't get money from the station
to give these gifts out to you.
These are purely there.
No, no.
No money exchanges hands.
No, no.
It's all out of love.
Exactly.
And hopefully the listeners
feel that as well
and call us,
212-209-2950.
And, you know,
just to speak to that subject
for a moment,
last week we mentioned something.
I don't know if people caught this.
We were talking about the FM dial
and how it changes
and how one day you can come in
and find that your radio station
has changed formats.
We were talking about how ESPN
was going to be launching
a sports FM station
in New York City,
which meant that
some radio station
would have to change.
And we were theorizing,
this was last Wednesday,
we were theorizing
it was going to be 94.7 WFME,
the family radio station
that predicted the end of the world
last year and got it wrong.
Well, as it turns out,
we were wrong.
It wasn't that station at all.
Everybody was wrong.
It was announced the next day.
It was announced on Thursday
of last week
that a station has been around
for over 30 years,
KISS FM 98.7
would be no more
as of Monday morning
and would be turning
into ESPN radio.
They announced it in a way
that made it sound like good news.
Good news.
We're going to be merging
with WBLS,
which means that
two urban radio stations
will now become one,
which means you'll have less,
you'll have half the choices
that you had before.
But it's good news.
And half the people
lost their jobs, of course,
because not everybody
can fit into one station.
So that is how it works
in the radio business.
Stations change.
People lose their voices,
their outlets.
That's not the case here
because we have you.
We have our listeners
who call 212-209-2950,
pledge whatever they can afford,
get amazing things in return,
but mostly get the radio station.
And when you say half the people,
that's really not a lot of people
because these commercial radio stations
don't let a wide variety of people
on the air
to stay their point of view.
None of them would touch
a hacker radio show.
Only WBAI would keep us on the air.
212-209-2950.
And the thing is,
in those last few hours
of KISS FM 98.7,
yeah, I get them mixed up,
they were actually being very relevant.
They were talking about things
involving the corporatization
of the radio dial
and how voices are being shut out.
And, you know,
it would have been nice
if this was talked about more often
on their airways
before they were all losing their jobs
and signing off for the last time.
But I think we all know this.
Whether or not we talk about it
on the radio,
we all know that this is something
that affects us
and affects radio in general.
But it doesn't have to affect WBAI
because we aren't beholden
to the same interests.
Our listeners are the only people
that matter to us.
And you can show that we matter to you
by calling 212-209-2950.
Join the five calls on the line right now.
Pick up the $75 Steve Rambam seminar,
15 DVDs,
all about privacy over the years.
Get a spy camera
for another pledge of $75
or get it all for a pledge of $125.
212-209-2950.
Yeah, you know,
some people might think,
oh, you know, what does it matter?
I can just get the stuff, say, online
and all that sort of thing.
But you have to remember,
especially if you listen to the show
as a podcast,
it comes from a real radio station.
These forms of media
that have been around for years
have been around for years,
decades, centuries sometimes,
for a reason.
Because it's a very good way
to get information out there.
It's very robust.
And there's not necessarily
something viable
that can replace it on the Internet.
There's some stuff,
but this is something
that you really just can't replace.
And maybe at some point in the future
that might not be the case,
but right now it is.
So you don't want to see
a station like this go away.
And we've been talking
about a perfect example.
There's a station that was around
for a couple decades,
and now it's being replaced
by another sports network.
I think we're actually about
to offer something
that you can't get on the Internet.
Oh yeah, we are going to offer that.
Bernie, you say something,
then we have a new premium
that we're about to unleash.
Yeah, briefly,
I just want to point out
to our listeners
that it's expensive
running a radio station.
It's not free.
It isn't just like
somebody plugs a microphone
into their computer
and goes online
with just some audio stream.
This is a real radio station.
And WBAI has a lot
of legitimate expenses.
We have a transmitter and antenna
in the Empire State Building.
Studios down there
are where you're located.
I'm here in Philly.
But this is,
and an engineering staff
and a lot of people,
almost all the people at WBAI
are volunteers.
We're all volunteers.
We don't get paid a dime for this.
We donate these premiums
so we can bring our listeners
information that they're not going to hear
at any other radio station,
and frankly,
not on any web streaming thing,
whatever.
This is a valuable medium.
And it's worth keeping on the air.
By all accounts,
when you describe this place
to people who have not seen it,
who have not been a part of it,
it should not exist.
It should be impossible.
New York City,
on the Empire State Building,
that's where our transmitter is,
to exist in this kind of
competitive atmosphere
since 1960,
no way.
It's not possible.
And if we were to try
and do this today,
it would never happen.
It would be completely impossible
to pull something like this off.
It's a valuable resource.
It beats all the odds.
And it's because of you,
our listeners,
that it does that.
And that's why we're here.
That's why we'll continue to be here.
212-209-2950.
Empire State Building.
Once again,
the second tallest building in New York.
Yeah, I heard.
Wow, that's so sad.
Okay, now we have this new premium here.
Now, this, Steve,
this is not some kind of joke, right?
You're actually offering this.
No, would you like me to describe this?
Well, I'm going to say that,
yeah, you know what?
Why don't you just describe it?
This is unbelievable.
This is a five-hour package
of investigative services
with a few caveats that I'll describe
for $500.
This is considerably less than half
of what we normally charge.
It's five hours of billable time
plus, you know,
some related expenses we'll throw in.
Who's billable time?
Your billable time.
My personal billable time.
I'm not going to slough this off
to some grunt or some subcontractor
or some employee.
This is my own time that I'm pledging,
a five-hour block of time for $500.
And what can you do in those five hours?
Well, I can do quite a bit.
You found Nazis in less time than that.
Well...
Listeners need to find Nazis.
Once we were in the secondary phase,
that's true, that's true.
There was quite a buildup to that.
What other things might people ask you to do?
Find missing persons.
Assist in asset recovery.
You know, I love how on television
you see a case on something.
L.A. Law used to be a big show
where they showed the attorney
being told that he's gotten
a $5 million judgment for his client
and everybody cheers and they hug
and that's the end of the show.
That's not the end of the show in real life.
There may be people listening
who have a judgment that's uncollectible
because after they got the judgment
they went to the debtor who said,
you'll excuse me,
who said, bite me.
I'm not paying you regardless of the judgment.
There may be a missing person.
There may be a lost love.
I will tell you that I do reserve the right
to screen both the case and the client.
I mean, obviously if somebody calls in
and wants video of them being abducted
by an alien every Thursday,
I will respectfully decline the assignment.
Okay, but there is a reference
you can give them to somebody else
that might do that.
I'm sure there is.
My largest competitor, absolutely.
Alright, now we have to limit this
because your time is valuable
and we can't have you doing
all your investigations,
BII listeners,
and we are getting a flurry of calls,
so what are we saying?
How many of these can we give out?
I will, mainly because I'm not
fully unhandcuffed yet,
I will offer two packages,
two five-hour packages at $500 each.
Let me assure the listeners that
I'm not allowed to say what my rate is,
I'm told,
but I can tell you it is less than
half of our rate.
Yeah, and that's a bargain in and of itself
because I've seen you at work
and it's simply phenomenal.
Correct, and by the way,
I want to remind you the two times
that you've contacted me for things,
each time I was able to resolve your issue
in less than five hours.
Yeah, and you really saved my ass once,
but I won't get into details on how that was.
Please don't.
Yeah, but wow.
Because you used the word ass.
Well, yeah, of course,
but it's the real thing,
it really is.
To be very serious for a second,
this is professional investigative services
from an investigative agency
that has been in business for 30 years,
is licensed in multiple states,
is quite experienced,
for less than half of what we normally charge.
And you're tied into private eyes
all over the world to help each other out, too.
I personally have worked in 53 countries.
So if you need a stakeout someplace,
a faraway place.
Well, you know,
if you want a surveillance in Mongolia,
this will probably not apply.
Let's say right now...
You've been to Mongolia, though.
I have, actually.
And you probably were doing surveillance
when you were there, right?
No, I did a fraudulent death claim
and I did crack it and we did find...
Fraudulent death claims.
The woman was not dead
and there was a coffin with rocks in it
that was buried and she was in Paris
and we tracked her down.
So someone could find out
that somebody is not dead
through your services.
That would take probably less than five hours, yes.
Yeah, so you get maybe two people
that aren't dead for that, you know.
Well, if there's time left over,
you all apply it some other way.
Right, two people who disappeared together.
Right, so there are people who know that.
Your ex-husband and her girlfriend.
All right, 212-209-2950.
Take advantage of this very special offer.
$500 for five hours
of Steve Raumbaub's investigative talents,
which, believe me,
you'll get something out of that.
Or you can buy both packages
and you get 10 hours.
Oh, 10 hours.
Yeah, one person could do that.
Okay, so we're going to move on
to the next segment
and check down in Talley
to see if these have been taken
or if both of them have been taken.
212-209-2950.
Again, $500.
You'll get five hours
of Steve Raumbaub's investigative talents
at your disposal
for whatever you need him to investigate,
as long as it's not aliens
taking you away every Thursday.
And every penny of that
goes to the radio station.
That's right.
Not a penny goes to me.
Think about that.
And I guess, you know,
you can have some time
to cash that in, too,
if you want to wait
until maybe, you know,
something happens
that you need to investigate
down the road a few months
or something like that.
Right, if you are a prospective felon,
I would urge you to buy both packages
and be prepared.
Yeah, there you go.
It's an insurance policy.
And, of course, we also have
the other two premiums.
We have the 15-DVD seminar.
We're going to play an excerpt
from one of those DVDs right now.
That's for a pledge of $75,
or combined with the special spy camera
that fits in a pen or a key fob
where you can record all kinds of people
at all kinds of different times
without anybody figuring out
what you're doing.
That's for $125.
You'll get that and the DVDs.
212, 209, 2950.
We have a bunch of calls on the line.
Let's get a bunch more.
We're going to move to 2008 now,
the last hope,
which, of course, was not the last hope.
This was probably the best one I ever gave.
You think so?
Yeah, I really do.
It's my favorite.
Well, you gave a lot of good examples here
of what people do.
Rick was on the stage with me,
Rick Dakin.
Right, right.
He doesn't appear in this excerpt.
But what we're going to hear,
we're going to hear you talking about
examples of how people
give away their privacy.
You know, let me just add one thing.
For me, the most fascinating thing
about all of these disks,
which bring back a lot of memories,
is how if you attended the HOPE conference
and you went to my talk
and you went to related talks,
you were typically 10 years ahead of the curve.
I mean, we talked about cell phone pinging
eight years before the FBI did it.
We talked about Google goggles in 2006.
They're only coming out now.
You know, if you attended these talks,
you really knew what was what
before the general population.
Absolutely, and that's another reason
to attend HOPE this summer
and hear Steve in 2012,
and you'll know what's going to happen by 2020.
Okay, let's go to 2008, though,
and listen to some examples
of how people give away privacy,
and we'll be back in just a moment.
212-209-2950.
Keep those calls coming in.
We've covered how considerate you are
by putting your entire life up for public view.
We've covered the publicly available sites
that grab your data and amalgamate your data
when you touch them in any way.
If you're smart, if you're careful,
it doesn't matter.
Somebody else will put your stuff up there.
There's hundreds of these,
but these two just cracked me up.
Dontdatemgirl.com
and whosarat.com.
Here's Dontdatemgirl.
This, as you might imagine,
is reviews of dates that did not live up
to the woman's highest expectations.
Here is alleged cheater Aaron Carter III.
His name, his age, his height,
his weight, his city, state,
and the note,
this boy will use you like no other.
He smokes weed all day, every day,
and if he doesn't have it,
he will freak out.
Thank you.
Very helpful if I'm checking him out.
Okay, here's the funniest one.
This is Jonathan John Rainwater
from McDonough, Georgia.
John, if you're in the audience,
I'm really sorry for this.
This man, or so-called boy,
is such a liar.
First, he said that he loved me,
and we were together for four years,
and then I catch him in bed with another guy.
Now, if that's not enough,
I catch him in bed with another guy,
comma, Devin Pridemore.
So, we've got both their names.
You know, thank you.
Who's a rat?
Now, as we all experienced two years ago,
the FBI has very little sense of humor,
so this guy's in jail.
The guy who put up who's a rat
is now locked up for eight years.
I don't know if he was really selling pot,
if he wasn't selling pot,
he just got eight years for selling pot.
The site is still up, however.
This is a site of everybody who is
known or accused of being a government informant.
Their name, their picture,
who they've ratted on,
what they've done.
Here's a sample.
This is Thomas Evans, 32, from Massachusetts.
Usually does his snitching in Danvers,
Beverly, Mattapon.
He's white.
He's a paid rat for the
Massachusetts State Police and DEA.
He's a drug use informant.
There's his photo.
Looks like a, I don't know,
school book photo.
Other rage sites.
There's a lot of rage sites
targeting individual people
and individual companies.
You don't like T-Mobile?
T-Mobile sucks.com.
You don't like this particular guy,
John Grogan?
TruthAboutGrogan.org.
Combined rage sites.
The ripoff report.
Anybody you've done business with
you think has done you wrong,
their name and company goes up there.
Example.
The stained glass people,
Mark and Jay Shirley.
Follow up to see if anyone
has been able to locate
or recently come across
Mark and Jay Shirley,
the stained glass people.
And a whole story about how
they took money for a job
that they didn't do.
Now, one in ten people
in America now have,
probably one in a hundred,
a hundred and a hundred people
in this room have personal blogs,
but across America now,
one in ten people
have personal blogs.
And they write about their friends
and they write about their family
and they have no stop button.
They write about everything.
Here's a woman going through
an ugly divorce and decided
to blog about it.
And, by the way,
not only did she blog about it,
she put up a whole YouTube video
and she posts to YouTube
every few days.
Here's an example of what
she put up on the blog.
She says, we never had sex.
He said it was because
he had high blood pressure.
I accepted that.
Then, last year I found
Viagra, porn movies, and condoms.
Maybe I should call him up
and ask him what he wants
to do with the condoms.
Okay, mind boggling to me
that people write about
this stuff on the net.
I'm old school,
but this is the new reality.
Even newspapers,
even supposedly reputable newspapers.
You get arrested for anything,
they put your name, the arrest,
and the photo up on their website.
I mean, they're really considerate.
They put next to the photo,
so-and-so was charged with DWI.
The gallery represents the charge
at the time of the photo.
Newsday will not be updating
the status of these cases.
All are presumed innocent
unless proven guilty.
Gee, thanks, Newsday.
This is up there forever.
And if Newsday decides
to take it down,
it's in the Wayback Machine,
it's in archive.org,
it's, you know,
cached somewhere.
Even if this guy was mistakenly arrested
for the rest of his life,
there you go.
Oh, I shouldn't zip past this.
This guy's mother was dating somebody,
and this 14-year-old kid
thought that the guy
was kind of a bad guy.
So he got together,
I guess the little rascals
with video cameras,
following the guy around,
and they caught him
messing around with a girl,
videoed the whole thing,
and then put it up on the net
with a whole narrative
scrolling across the bottom
and little arrows saying who it is
with a little note
under the other woman,
the mistress.
You know, frankly,
the most dangerous thing
is a 14-year-old guy
with a video camera.
Now, not so public stuff,
but stuff that investigators
and other people
looking at you use every day.
The appropriately named MIB,
the Medical Information Bureau,
every time you apply for insurance,
every time you make a claim,
every time you have a medical test,
all your HMO stuff,
in there or in ISO,
there's two.
How many of you have gone to a bar
and they say,
let me see your ID,
and then they put it through a scanner
or they put it under a camera
and whatever?
Pretty much everybody.
Well, you should know
that that does not only
stay with the bar,
it goes into a big database
17 million new,
not 17 million,
17 million new records a year
get added.
Even from states
where driving records are closed
due to privacy,
thank you very much,
you've just given it
to a new database.
Now,
Rombaum's first law of data use.
All data will eventually be used
for some unintended purpose.
Perfect example,
Domino's Pizza.
How is it that when you dial
1-800-CRAPPY-PIZZA
or whatever their number is,
they are able to route that call
to the Domino's next door to you,
even though it's probably
ringing in Nebraska
in a prison somewhere or something.
The person who answers it
is your local Domino's
and he says,
hi Bob,
what would you like to order today?
The answer is,
they have access
to the CNAM data,
they have access
to your previous purchasing history,
they have access
to a whole host of databases,
and they built
the biggest customer database
in America.
Bigger than Walmart's,
bigger than Sears,
bigger than the car companies,
this is the biggest
consumer database in America.
And,
let's say you're trying
to hide from your ex-wife,
let's say you're trying
to hide from the cops,
you never think
to hide from Domino's.
Yeah, this is Bob Jones,
I'm at 123 Main Street,
yeah, I'm the guy
who always orders, you know,
the extra pineapple,
double deep dish,
yeah, okay,
bring a couple of bottles of soda,
see you in 20 minutes.
US Marshal Service
bought this database,
so help me God.
This database is now being used
to track down felons,
so if any of you are wanted
and you've recently ordered
Domino's pizza, move.
Who else has bought
pizza databases?
NYPD, US Marshal Service,
collection agencies,
credit bureaus buy it up.
By the way,
I'm going to start going
through this a little bit
like a speed freak,
because in 45 minutes
we're going to do the Q&A,
which is always the best
part of the talk,
and I want to leave
a full hour for that.
Points of purchase.
Every time you use a credit card,
every time you use
an affinity card,
every time you use
a frequent purchaser card,
it goes into that great database.
Why?
People want to know
you buy pork rinds.
People want to know
you buy five, six packs
of beer a week.
There's stuff they can sell you,
you lush, you know,
like AA mailings.
Now, it sounds like a joke.
Remember Rombaum's first law
of unintended data use,
or unanticipated data use.
Stop and shop,
or stop and rob,
as we used to call it.
The supermarket chain decided,
hey, we've got all these
stop and shop affinity purchasers
who we know everything they buy
and everything they like,
and guess what?
We know if they eat salty food.
We know if they buy a lot of booze.
We know if they buy
the extra fatty bacon.
We're going to sell this
to the local HMOs,
and the HMOs are going to be able
to use it to do underwriting
on your premiums.
Is it likely this guy
is going to stroke out
or fall drunk in front of a bus,
and we're going to have to give him
more medical care?
This is good for us to know.
So they started a program
obnoxiously called Smart Mouth.
And by the way,
the upper one in Boston
was so great, so enormous,
that they even had
local assembly hearings about it.
Stop and shop said,
okay, okay, we changed our mind.
We won't do it.
Perfect example, though,
of what's possible.
Okay, all right,
we must calm down.
A lot of people are calling in.
Apparently, Mike,
the private eye thing is gone, right?
We don't have any more of those.
We have no more.
No more, so sorry.
You weren't fast enough.
The two packages?
Yeah, you've been hired, Steve,
for 10 hours, right?
Subject to review
of the client and the case.
Now, what we're going to do...
I will not work for a stalker.
I will not work for
someone from another planet.
Okay, well, that cuts out
a few of our listeners,
but not all of them.
Good, cuts me out, too, I think.
Well, yeah.
So what we'll do is,
I guess we'll have...
As soon as your pledge is paid,
we'll have Steve contact you,
and then we'll take it from there, right?
Well, my...
Should I just give him my phone number?
No, because we want to tell you
who to contact,
because they will pay the pledge
at that point,
and then they'll be clear.
They will never get through Clarissa
if I don't want them to.
I can put out...
Well, you know how to protect yourself.
You've spoken to Clarissa.
She is, like, 87 times tougher than me.
Yeah, we respect each other.
She's also 71 years old.
We respect each other.
We have sort of a tentative truce at the moment.
We were just listening to Steve Rambam
talking at The Last Hope 2008,
some great examples of how people
give it all away and say things
that really I can't believe they say
on the Internet.
And, of course, that was in 2008.
There's one more talk we're going to get to
in just a couple of minutes.
You know, the problem is,
we have all these clips,
and we've been on for almost two hours now,
and it's a scramble fitting it all in.
We want to listen to all this.
There's so much more.
There are so many hours of these talks.
And I've got to say, Steve,
you never repeat yourself.
You give all these amazing talks,
and it's just...
It's because I have Alzheimer's.
I never remember a talk.
Well, that might be a good thing,
but so many people, they give presentations,
and it's literally the same thing
time after time, conference after conference.
They just have the thing up on the screen.
They read from it,
and you give very animated talks,
very specific examples, timely examples,
and every single DVD that you get
with this package for $75
will be something completely different
and educational.
All kidding aside,
the crew that I'm going to be at Hope with
this year is going to be incredibly unique,
pretty remarkable,
a couple of people from intelligence agencies,
other investigators.
And at the end of my talk for Q&A,
we are going to have probably the highest-powered,
most wired-in panel that Hope has ever seen.
So if you think that these previous talks
have been predictive of what was going to happen
and ahead of the curve,
it's nothing compared to what we're doing this year.
Well, we can't offer that,
because that's in the future,
and we can only offer things
that have already happened tonight.
But if you want to be part of that,
you want to see Steve live,
come to the Hope Conference,
July 13th, 14th, 15th.
More information on that, www.hope.net.
We hope to see you there.
It's going to be amazing.
Yeah, that is a very good point to bring up, though,
because I'm sure a number of people listening to this
hear about cops coming in to a hacker conference
and dragging someone up,
and they think, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But there's more to it than just that.
These conferences are full of attending
law enforcement officials as well,
as well as many other people in between that
and private investigating and from all over the world.
And you get a piece of that by
if you missed the conference by these DVDs, 15 DVDs.
Mm-hmm.
And when someone comes in
and drags one of our speakers away,
of course, we follow it up,
and we make sure the talk is presented
one way or another.
But we also follow up on the story,
and we realize that, you know,
if their attention has been activated
by something that Steve has done or said,
he must be doing something right.
And you know what?
Let's not perpetuate just the silly stereotype
of hackers or hacker conferences.
The truth is, I, as an investigator
and as a professional detective
who routinely works with law enforcement,
I show up at this conference
because it is the most remarkable collection
of inquisitive people and intellects
and, frankly, law-abiding people that there is.
I really don't want anyone who's tuning into this show
for the first time to think,
oh, my God, hackers, anonymous,
you know, Occupy Wall Street,
they're all the same.
It's ridiculous.
Well, it's a wide variety, yes.
This is law enforcement officers,
federal agents, computer security people.
The traditional definition...
Anonymous and Occupy Wall Street, too.
Well, a few hiding in the back,
but these are people who are
the traditional definition of hackers,
which is they want to understand things.
They want to know how things work,
how the world works, how life works,
and they hack their way into it.
And I have to tell you
that I come out of these conferences
about 10 IQ points higher
just from osmosis from the crowd.
Yeah, and I think most people do,
and it carries on with the DVD set as well.
That's one reason why I think people benefit
from seeing what's been said at previous conferences.
It doesn't get old.
It really doesn't get old.
Okay, so to run this down one more time
before we go into the final segment
of the two-hour period,
we are offering a full 15-DVD set
of Steve Rombaum talks over the years
from 1997 through 2010
for a pledge of $75, 212-209-2950.
We are offering the special miniature spy camera
that you can use to record all kinds of people
doing all kinds of things
that either they don't want you to capture
or that you want to just be clever
and show how things are.
There's all kinds of uses for that.
I mean, you have a pen in your pocket,
and you can record somebody saying something
or doing something who will later deny
that they ever said or did that.
There's just no way to really know
that you're recording, I guess, right?
You'd have to take the pen and look at it
and figure out what it is.
I mean, I'm sure there are ways of doing that,
but I don't know if there's any real...
You have to be a professional
to know how to find these things in the first place.
You get that for another $75 pledge,
or you get everything for 125,
212-209-2950.
To speak plainly about camera-equipped pens,
it's not necessarily illegal
if you're in the right state, first off.
And secondly, people aren't looking
for that sort of thing.
If someone was looking for it,
I don't know, maybe they could find it,
but people are looking for phones
that are being pointed at them.
You know, if you're in a board meeting,
for instance, it would seem strange
if someone was holding up a phone,
but if you're talking to some people
and you have a pen in your pocket,
no one's gonna think,
maybe they are recording this for some reason,
and I should be careful about what I'm saying.
Okay, now, Steve, you really wanna do this?
Okay.
No, but I will.
Okay, well, let's make it fast, then,
because we have another segment.
I really don't wanna miss this segment.
The two prior packages have sold?
Yes.
Okay, if somebody calls in
in the next 14 minutes and 50 seconds...
During this next segment.
I will offer one more five-hour package
at 100 bucks, and...
500 bucks.
But then you have to remove the leg irons.
500 bucks.
Well, five hours, $500.
Right, okay, right.
Yeah.
Okay, so you're too kind, really.
212-209-2950.
So that would be the third one
that you're offering,
a five-hour investigative package
that Steve will personally give to you,
his services, which are extremely valuable.
212-209-2950.
Now, what we're gonna play now
is the final piece,
and this is where you unleash on Google,
and I guess that's appropriate enough,
because Google is everywhere these days,
and we need to know what's happening,
what they're up to, what they're...
Hang on, I'm trying to get the CD player
to stop battling me here.
Google is everywhere.
Google is,
and I think they're in the CD player, too,
because, yeah, it keeps playing
when I don't want it to.
Okay, I'm gonna try and play this
and not have it interfered with.
This is from The Next Hope in 2010,
Steve Rombaum discussing Google.
Gmail is great,
and by the way,
they may not report your IP address,
but they absolutely buffer your IP address.
Google Goggles is unbelievable.
It's an example of where it's going.
What the heck is this?
Google Shopping.
Okay, Google provides a free 411 service.
They provide voice-to-text.
Why do they provide voice-to-text?
Because if you take advantage of voice-to-text,
and by the way, what you don't know is
Google converts all your voicemail messages
to text even if you don't use that service.
Why?
Because it's another window into your soul.
Somebody leaves a message,
Hey, Bob, you know,
we're meeting at such and such a place,
and there's strippers, this and that.
Google knows that.
Every voicemail message left on Google
for your Google Voice account
is indexed as if it was typed into text.
Oh, how many of you can read that thing with the red arrow?
Well, for those of you that can't,
Google Mobile Terms of Service,
you give them the right to constantly record
and constantly buffer and constantly archive
and then resell your location.
And since it's GPS and Skyhook on a lot of phones,
they know where you are within 10 feet all the time.
What the heck is this?
Right.
Location-aware Google Maps.
What you don't realize is
Google Maps are now location-aware.
Not just latitude.
You can use maps that sync,
not just on your phone,
which you probably already know about,
but even on your laptop.
These are location-aware devices.
Now let's talk about latitude.
I don't know...
How many of you use latitude?
A decent amount.
How many of you know that do use latitude,
know that it constantly buffers your location
and saves it forever?
You can delete it so it doesn't show up.
Google still saves it.
Ah.
Here's an example of what's being developed.
Now I've got to tell you, this is a brilliant program.
This is a functional program.
This is an unbelievably privacy-invading program.
This is called Geocron.
Geocron sets up computer activities
based on your location.
You can tell Geocron
to send your wife an SMS
when your train is about to pull into your home station.
Honey, come pick me up.
Frankly, it's a brilliant program.
Enormous functionality.
Terrific functionality.
You've got a 14-year-old daughter.
You know she's been seeing a bad 17-year-old guy.
You can have her phone send you a text message,
she's on her way to Vinny's house.
When that occurs,
when her phone gets within a mile of Vinny's house.
Now, terrifically functional, yes.
People will be using this, yes.
Will this be buffered and tell about you?
It absolutely will.
Google is brilliant
in that it not only makes its programming open to the world,
unlike the nimrods at Apple,
but they give you functionality.
They give you plug-ins.
They give you access to APIs.
They want you to write programs
that helps invade the privacy,
helps document every single activity
of Android phone users.
Now, this is what they used to say.
Google Chrome, most of the user experience
takes place on the web.
That's not what they say anymore.
They know most of it takes place on the cell phone,
and most of it takes place when you're not on the web.
Google TV.
How many of you know that Google is now working
with Logitech and Sony and Dish Network
to put together a device?
Google will know.
You know, it's like the Santa Claus song.
They know when you're sleeping.
They know when you're awake.
They know when you're watching porno.
They know when you're in front of the TV
and what you're watching.
What you watch on TV tells a lot about you.
How much time you spend in front of the TV
tells a lot about you.
When you're home tells a lot about you.
Google Music.
Google hates that Apple has that huge iTunes penetration.
They're starting Google Music, and I guarantee you
they're going to find a way to link it
to every damn other Google product,
including Android phones.
I mean, you have iTunes on an Apple phone.
You're going to have Google Music on an Android phone,
and they are going to give Apple a run for their money,
which, again, spanking Steve Jobs.
You know, kind of hard to feel bad about that.
Google power and metering.
Yes, folks, Google is going to be providing electricity
to more and more people.
They've started a public utility.
They're going to sell power.
They're going to know how much power you use
and what you do, and they are...
It's mandatory that if you buy electricity from Google,
you must use what's called intelligent metering,
which means a lot of your devices
are going to be hooked up to Skynet.
They will be able to tell by a surge of power consumption
on the refrigerator,
you've opened the refrigerator door.
You've closed it again.
You've gone back to your TV.
You've turned the channel, Google TV.
You've gone into the bedroom.
You've turned on the light in there.
I don't know.
This creeps me out beyond belief.
It's not a secret.
You can go to Google, to Google Blogs,
and Google will tell you about what they're doing.
Google Travel.
Google wants to know everywhere you go.
They just bought a travel recommendations firm.
Google News.
We've talked about that.
Listen, Bitly.
Everybody here uses bit.ly Bitly.
Everybody uses it.
If I click on a Bitly link and it sends me to spankme.com.
By the way, I keep using that as an example.
Don't read anything into that.
I got to say that.
Come on.
If you use...
Quiet.
Whatever you're about to say, don't say it.
If you use Bitly, every URL, every shortened URL,
that you click on tells me something about you.
Google hates that.
Google goes nuts when somebody knows something about you
that they don't know.
So they've started G-O-O-G-L.
They now have a URL shortener.
And one of the things that if you're paying attention,
you're going to see is Google does things to screw Apple
and Apple constantly does things to screw Google.
Apple, as you're going to see when we get into Apple,
new version of Safari strips out ads.
Does Steve Jobs do that because he loves you?
No.
Steve Jobs does that.
So Apple are the only people who can serve you ads.
It strips out all the Google ads.
Pretty freaking smart.
Google does the same sort of thing.
Google...
Listen, I like playing Mafia Wars.
I admit it.
I'm not going to play Mafia Wars anymore
because if I do, Google is going to know
how much time I've been spending on Mafia Wars
and all of the really disreputable things I do
while I play Mafia Wars.
Sorry.
They have now bought a...
Nobody really knows if it's a controlling share
or just a monstrous couple of hundred million dollar share
in the company that publishes Mafia Wars.
Google Wave.
Again, Google is a brilliant company.
A frighteningly brilliant company.
They see a niche.
They develop the best possible product for it.
And they use it to suck every bit of information they can.
How many people here have used Google Wave?
More than half of the room.
It's a great service.
It's a phenomenal service.
Incredible collaboration facilitation.
But think about what it tells about you.
When you use that whiteboard,
when you watch a video together,
when you collaborate on a product,
sending it back and forth,
it's as if Google is part of the collaboration.
Brilliant, functional, fantastic product.
Sucks every bit of privacy out of you.
Listen, guys.
Google has its own freaking satellite.
Skynet. Skynet. It's Skynet.
Listen, I'm not a paranoid guy.
I use this stuff for my own purposes.
I recognize this is all an engine of capitalism.
Google is wonderful at what they do.
I bought Google stock as a result.
I use a ton of their products.
I've got to tell you,
everything you do is sucked down by Google.
Google has enough RAM,
not servers,
Google right now,
their server farms,
have enough RAM
to save the entire web.
Think about that.
That's not an exaggeration.
I didn't make that up.
That's really true.
That just gives you an idea
of how monstrously huge they are.
They add storage,
not on the drive or the server rack basis,
but on the facility basis.
And they plant server farms,
not in square feet, but in acres.
And it's served by their own fiber optic.
They have their own dedicated networks
powered by their own power company.
They are Skynet.
And that's Steve Rambam from 2010.
The Next Hope, that's the final excerpt
we're going to be playing tonight.
And your final chance to get the entire DVD set,
15 DVDs of Steve Rambam giving talks
from 1997 all the way through 2010,
talking about the evolution of privacy,
the de-evolution of privacy,
and how technology has affected everything.
Great talk about Google in 2010.
Of course, all those disparaging remarks
about Steve Jobs were made
before his untimely passing.
And also Google Wave is no longer around as well.
But yeah, well, you know, things change.
And that's part of the fascination.
That's why it's so interesting.
So again, for a pledge of $75,
you'll get all those DVDs.
Or if you prefer to have the spy camera,
well, that's a $75 pledge too.
If you want both the spy camera and all the DVDs,
a pledge of 125-212-209-2950.
In the last two minutes of this episode of Off the Hook,
we cannot offer this past 9 o'clock tonight
because we are off the air.
And this is such a good deal
that we just couldn't afford to keep donating
over and over again.
We have to limit it to two hours.
And in just about a minute,
Democracy Now! is coming on the air.
So you have one minute to give a call,
212-209-2950.
Now, Steve, any...
Fifty-one seconds.
Fifty-one seconds.
But other than keeping time,
is there any last comment you wish to make about this?
No, I'm looking forward to seeing everyone at Hope.
And by the way, we are...
Didn't get a chance to talk about it,
but we are looking for another privacy victim this year.
And how can they become part of that?
Good question.
They can email us, OTH at 2600.com,
and we'll pass it on.
OTH at 2600.com.
Give me your name, your email address,
and your phone number if you want to be a victim.
You know, these calls are just pouring in right now.
Well, keep them pouring in,
because WBAR is a good cause.
Yeah, if you can get the phone ringing, thank you.
Make the call now.
It might ring for a while.
If it doesn't pick up right away, call right back,
and we'll make sure that your pledge goes through.
But we're pretty much cutting off in just a few seconds.
Rob?
Also, 2600 meetings everywhere this Friday.
All right, yes, the first Friday of May.
Once again, 212-209-2950.
Thanks, everybody, for calling in and supporting the station.
Thanks, Steve, for everything that you've done,
and we'll see you at Hope.
And we'll see you next week
on another edition of Off the Hook.
Good night.
♪♪
Go!
♪♪
See you Sunday.