Christine Lewis is a member of the Community News Production Institute.
Disclaimer, their parent organization, People's Production House, supports
public access to the white space spectrum. And that will do it for today's
newscast. From Pacifica Station KPFK in Los Angeles, I'm Aura Bogado.
And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York. It's 6.58 and Off the Hook is up next.
We'll be ending five minutes early, so we're going to begin two minutes early with Off the Hook.
Off the Hook, I cut it off the wall. I cut myself while shaving. Now I can't make a cough.
It couldn't get much worse. But if they could, they would. Bundledly bound for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood. Bundledly bound.
And good evening to everybody. The program is Off the Hook. Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
And yes, we will be ending five minutes early because of Pacifica debate coverage tonight taking place from Long Island.
It will be the final debate between McCain and Obama, if you want to call them debates.
But you'll hear unique coverage here on WBAI. I want to welcome everybody to the studio.
We have Rob T. Firefly. Good evening. And it looks like not Kevin over there. Hello.
Dot Riff makes his return. Hello, hello. You keep disappearing and returning again. Yes.
We have Red Hect. Hello. We have Mike. Hi. And down in Philadelphia, we have Bernie S. Greetings from Philadelphia.
Folks, we had a bit of a scary weekend, I guess, because we all went through one heck of an adventure.
What happened was our good friend Jim, who has who suffered a stroke a year, about a year ago.
It was about a year ago, wasn't it? Yeah. All right. He was on an outing, much like the outings that we take him on occasionally.
Mostly, Bernie, you take him on. And somewhere on the subway system, he got separated and was lost.
We basically had a frantic time trying to figure out just what was going on.
Basically, Bernie, I think I think you deserve the most credit for figuring out what could have happened,
what you know, for hypothesizing as to what might have been going through his mind.
We should point out that that Jim is is is functional. He's he's just unable to speak really that well.
He can speak, but he has difficulty speaking highly. Yes, totally.
And then that is even even the people at the nursing home where he's currently residing say he's highly functional.
His only issues really are from a medical standpoint is he he can't get words out of his mouth.
And he has trouble writing more than a few letters down on a piece of paper.
He knows exactly what he wants to say. He just can't get that out, which must be extremely frustrating.
Yeah, I can't imagine anything more frustrating than that.
And I certainly don't fault him for for being angry or or just trying to act out in various ways.
But in this particular case, we theorized that he was he was pretty much doing what he wanted to do,
which was not be in this nursing home for at least a little while.
But there was a great issue of concern because he needed his medication.
I'm not sure if he was aware of how urgent that was without the medication could easily suffer another stroke.
And so what we started to do was was basically get the word out to various people through both the hacker community,
through the WBAI community and, of course, through the authorities that that Jim was missing and that we were trying to find him.
And Bernie, why don't you tell us something about some of the ideas you had on how to track him down?
Well, the last time I took him out to dinner after a twenty six hundred meeting with, you know, with the gang,
he strongly expressed a desire to go to Atlantic City and he asked me, pleaded with me to take him to Atlantic City so he could play poker.
Because I don't know how many of our listeners are aware, but Jim is a tournament level poker player.
He's highly rated in the country as one of the better poker players.
Not much poker activity in a nursing home.
No, no. Although he has played a couple of games, according to people at the nursing home, he has played a couple of games lately with somebody there.
I'm not sure who. In any case, I told him I couldn't take him that night because I had to get him back to his facility.
And he was very upset that I wouldn't take him to Atlantic City that very night.
And I said, we'll make a day trip sometime. We'll do it.
Well, you know, some time went by and he was out on a trip with someone else.
And I guess he got separated somehow.
We're not sure exactly how from the person he was with.
And I guess he just figured he had his first true taste of freedom unattached to any person out in the real world for a year.
Which I can relate to, having spent more than a year in a different kind of prison myself.
It's a remarkable feeling. And you feel almost like you've been reborn.
And I think he probably felt like a new man.
And he just wanted to do what he wanted to do, which was he managed to get himself down to Atlantic City from Brooklyn.
And he spent three days at a casino down there playing poker.
And he managed to get himself back to the nursing home.
Of course, during this whole time, we were all freaking out because he hadn't had his stroke medication.
I'm not sure how much the importance of that was made clear to him that he could have another stroke without these meds.
In any case, we did a lot of...
No, I speculated that he might have been down in Atlantic City, but I had no evidence.
It turned out that's where he was, but it was just a lucky guess.
Well, we had to try and figure out how he might have gotten there, who could have seen him,
whether he took a Chinatown bus or a casino bus or a train or something like that.
And once we finally got the word out, people started putting up flyers in various train and bus stations, things like that.
And we contacted various authorities to be on the lookout for him because it's not too hard to spot him,
his physical characteristics and the fact that he's unable to speak.
And if we knew exactly where he was or to an approximation where he might be, it wouldn't be the most difficult thing in the world.
But getting the word out, that was the real challenge.
We had to do some other detective work as far as...
We had to pick up a couple of recent photographs of him.
We found a good picture of him from the HOPE Conference.
It had sort of like a side profile shot of him standing up, which showed his build.
He's got a slim build.
And then another recent picture someone took after a 2600 meeting of just a portrait shot.
So we put them together on a wanted poster, a missing poster, along with his physical description,
what we found he was wearing, his New York Yankees cap and a HOPE T-shirt and white sneakers, that sort of thing.
We cobbled together that information from different people.
And we put out these posters, which were, I guess, plastered around the city.
Is that right?
They were put all around.
Rob, do you know where they were actually put?
Yeah, I think Side Pocket, who also took that post-2600 photo of him, put some of them up, I believe, around some transportation hubs.
In fact, right about then was when he turned up, so he didn't put a lot up.
But he did do one night of leafletting, I think.
Let's discuss for those of you who are concerned.
Yes, he did turn up.
He actually made his way back to the nursing home on his own.
Is that correct, Bernie?
That's right.
On Monday, I believe, he just walked in the door, and people were like, well, where have you been?
And, of course, he was taken to a hospital because, in fact, he was taken to a Methodist hospital,
Brooklyn Methodist Hospital, which is where he was right after he had his stroke a year ago.
So that must have been eerie for him going back to that same place.
But they had to check out his vital signs, whatever, to make sure his blood pressure wasn't too high.
And, you know, he's on various medications to keep the stroke from reoccurring.
So what it turns out is he was okay, and then he's back at the nursing home.
And they're not too pleased with what happened because they all went through.
They had to contact NYPD.
I had also contacted NYPD and the Atlantic City Police Department, and they were very helpful down there.
They took copies of the poster that I faxed to them.
You know, they don't have an e-mail address.
Do you believe that?
The police department doesn't have an e-mail address?
The cops don't have e-mail.
No.
Well, they do.
They're still getting over the typewriter, so I guess I'm not too surprised.
So I had to fax it from my computer to Detective Michael Mason, Sr.
He was very helpful, and he got copies of these posters to the head of security at the different casinos.
But the day he did that was the day that Jim returned.
So we just sort of crossed paths with that thing.
Had Jim kept winning down in Atlantic City, he probably would still be there for a few more days.
And we probably would have found him.
He promised me, he said, if he's down here, we'll find him.
So apparently they're that good.
Because casino security is very good.
They have cameras everywhere, and they can spot anybody.
You know, to go back to the fax machine versus e-mail point,
if you think about it, it's kind of a smart ploy on their part, right?
Because by limiting themselves to fax machines and telephones,
they kind of limit how many people and with what volume they can contact them.
If they had an e-mail address, they could be inundated with all sorts of requests, whether legitimate or crazy.
But with a fax machine and a telephone, they can decide whether or not to reply or pick up.
I guess, plus it keeps them off the computer.
Senator Schumer apparently has the same policy.
I called Senator Schumer's office the other week to encourage him to support a bill.
And I was told that if I want a reply, I have to fax my comments.
And, you know, the rest of us are just moving away from faxes altogether because it's such a pain to deal with.
I don't have a fax machine.
Yeah, most people don't.
Most people don't.
And you can't fax things in color.
I mean, there might be some that do that, but I've never seen one.
Nope.
I had to convert the color photos we had to grayscale so that they would fax.
And I ended up having to fax it.
Where I was, I didn't have an Internet connection.
So I ended up having to fax it through my cell phone to Atlantic City.
There's one very frustrating part of this whole thing because we were getting heavily involved in this over the weekend.
But the person that was handling the case, the missing person case for Jim, was not going to be back until sometime Tuesday evening.
And it's incredible to me that that's the way it operates, that there isn't somebody standing in that can actually take care of something in that person's absence.
This was the person at the NYPD?
NYPD, yeah.
Yeah.
That was the 70th precinct.
Yeah.
We're not saying they're not helpful, but it seems like there should be a much quicker way to get an answer
and not have to wait a couple of days when we're talking about somebody who could be hurt, could be in serious need of medication, that kind of thing.
They do have a different department for minors.
If it's someone who would be like an Amber Alert type situation, they do have a separate division, and they're available.
There's somebody available all the time to deal with that stuff.
But I don't think Jim could pass for someone of a tender age.
Well, in any event, now I believe, Bernie, you actually were able to find out some of the story as to what he actually did, how he survived.
Well, he was missing since Thursday, and he returned on Monday.
So all that time, how is he getting along?
Well, apparently, for those in our audience that don't know Jim, he's a very resourceful person.
And that's been made clear on the air for the many years he's been on the show up until his stroke.
But he's a very resourceful guy, and he had about $300 stashed away from just gifts and things that people had brought him over the year he's been in where he's staying.
And I don't know whether this was a preplanned thing or whether he just decided to take his money wherever he goes.
And while he was out, he had this money.
So that was enough money for him to—
Well, I mean, Bernie, let's think about this for a second.
Jim has all his facilities.
He's an intelligent guy.
He likes his freedom and independence.
He's been stuck in a nursing home or similar facility for a year now, unable to communicate and being very frustrated.
I think that's the number one priority going through his head was to get out and do something and be on his own and just taste some of the world because it sure wasn't coming to him.
I probably would have done the same thing.
Absolutely.
I think we all would have.
And that's part of the dilemma we face is how do we help him?
How do we make it so this kind of thing doesn't happen again so he's not in such a stultifying atmosphere, not to put down the nursing home where he is?
But that's not the place for somebody like him.
He needs to be in a—I don't know if it's a group home or something where he can actually interact with people and go places and not be in a depressing environment.
The problem, of course, is that all of these options require either a lot of money or a lot of bureaucracy to go through, and we're not very good at either one of those things.
So that's where we need to appeal to the help of BAI listeners and people out in the communities of various sorts that listen to the radio program to maybe step up and either come up with ideas that we can pursue or figure out ways of pursuing these ideas yourself.
Our email address, othat2600.com.
We'd love to hear ideas about how to make things better for our former co-host, Jim.
And if anybody listening is familiar with the ins and outs of filing for SSD, which is Social Security Disability, which Jim would certainly qualify for after having his stroke,
if anybody's familiar with that, if you could contact us as well at othat2600.com, that would be helpful, because it's apparently a Byzantine system, how you have to file and refile.
Apparently the SSA routinely rejects these claims, and you've got to just jump through all these hoops.
And it often takes a year or more to get these things approved.
I do want to say that the folks at the nursing home in Brooklyn were extremely caring and were really concerned about Jim.
They were doing everything they could.
One of the people went down to Atlantic City on Saturday and looked for him at one of the casinos.
It wasn't the casino he was at, and that was unfortunate, but there's 13 casinos there.
One person can't cover the whole place.
People down there did a lot of work, and I appreciate their efforts, as well as those of the Atlantic City Police Department and the 70th Precinct and some of his other friends and caregivers.
It was really touching and moving to see so many people jump into action to help somebody in need.
Absolutely.
And I want to thank people here at the radio station, as well, because we got the word out, and it was up on the WBAI website right away.
There were all kinds of staff people here that were contacting us with helpful suggestions and advice and offers to help.
And it makes me realize just what a talented group of people we have here that just know so much about how systems work, about how health works, various things like that.
It's great when people pool their resources like that, so hopefully we can continue to do this to make his life a lot better in the future.
Now, Bernie, were there any other stories about things that happened to him down there?
How did he manage to survive for three days or four days?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I got off.
Sorry, I got off on a tangent.
Well, with the money he had, he was down at the casinos, and he managed to gamble for three days.
He was up, according to one of the people that interviewed him at the nursing home, he was up $470 or something around that amount.
He was up that much, so in other words, he had, I guess, $770 or somewhere thereabouts for a while, and he was up and down and up and down.
But when you keep gambling like that down there, you can get – I'm not a gambler down there, but apparently you can get comps, which is like free meals and sort of things.
So by him continuing to gamble and win and lose and win and lose and win, they kept giving him free meals.
So he was eating these meals for three days and just sleeping when he could, you know, who knows where down there, not in a hotel room, but just, you know, hey, I've slept on plenty of floors before myself.
I'm wondering if we just set Jim up at a casino and give him food, I mean, wouldn't it be just as – it would probably be a more mentally challenging environment, a lot more fun, probably cheaper than being in one of these facilities.
I don't know if he's able to get around just fine and be able to communicate and play cards and things like that.
I learned a lot this weekend about what he can do and how amazing it actually is.
Folks at the nursing home were concerned that he would be lost, he wouldn't be able to find his way back.
I said, I don't think so.
Jim knows the New York City subway system extremely well.
He worked there for years.
He knows it better than any of us, I think.
He was the person that did the first MetroCard panel at the first help in 1994 and then again in 1997.
And he's taught us so much about the system.
So obviously he knows the system.
He also knows the city.
He knows all five boroughs.
And he knows how to get to Atlantic City and back safely.
Which is more than I could probably do.
I would have had trouble myself.
But the folks at the nursing home were kind of stunned about this amazing journey he made.
But at this point they agreed that this is an appropriate facility for him because he's highly functioning.
And most of the people at the nursing home are not.
So he needs more stimulation.
He needs a place that he can have more social interaction with people and something that he can afford.
Because right now he has no income with his condition.
Okay.
So, again, our email address for people that can help or figure out solutions to this or things that we can pursue.
OTH at 2600.com.
That's 2600.com.
And help us help Jim.
There's a side note to this too, Bernie.
I believe you got a call today from the cops.
Yeah.
This is pretty funny.
Yeah, this afternoon I got a call from a NYPD policewoman who called the toll-free number on the flyers,
which I set it up so it goes right to my cell phone, this toll-free number.
And she called me.
She said, we have Jim.
I'm like, are you sure?
He's in the nursing home.
She's like, well, we believe it's him.
And she saw a poster in Washington Square Park.
Apparently somebody put up a poster near there.
And she found someone who matched Jim's photographs and description and characteristics to a T.
She said it was amazing.
It was like a spitting image.
And I assured her it couldn't be Jim, but I said, let me be sure.
I called the nursing home back, and he hadn't escaped again.
So, you know, obviously it was just a mistaken identity thing.
But it was really, I was sort of thrown for a loop there when I got that call.
Well, let's hope that person finds wherever it is they're supposed to be.
They couldn't talk either, right?
No, the police officer told me that the person appeared to be homeless and had trouble communicating.
And that was similar to what we had on the missing poster, that he had trouble speaking and writing,
but that he has all his mental capacity.
So, you know, it all seemed to match up.
So it just made me think there's probably hundreds, tens or hundreds of thousands of people out there like that.
Absolutely.
And people who are just wandering around looking for a place to have shelter or get a meal or something like that,
it does open up your eyes to what's going on under our noses.
And we're all pretty close to that happening.
You realize how close you are to losing your health.
You could lose your job.
You could lose your health benefits.
You could be out on the street.
I passed a bunch of people on Wall Street pondering this very possibility just earlier today with another 700-point drop in the stock market.
So people are very aware of the fragile state in their lives.
I just passed somebody on Broadway today who got hit by a taxi and had a whole sign out and a whole crowd about his issue.
Wait, he got hit by a taxi and put up a sign?
Yeah, put up something for Bloomberg and whatnot.
It didn't all happen in the same day, did it?
No.
Okay, so he had gotten hit by a taxi.
But that he's running out of money and he was going to be homeless within a few days.
Well, he could make signs, I guess, apparently.
That's, wow.
It worked pretty well for him.
Yeah, people were gathering around.
But he wasn't getting money as far as I could tell.
Well, then it didn't work very well for him.
Well, he got the sign works.
All right.
Well, he got your attention at least but not your sympathy.
All right.
Okay.
Now, we have other things to cover.
And again, we do have a slightly abbreviated show.
We're heading out of here five minutes early.
I have a question.
Do we actually have to ask for money this week?
Not this week.
No.
We're done.
We're done.
And we want to thank everybody.
Oh, boy, five weeks.
A record number of weeks asking for money consecutively for us.
But we did well.
We did great.
And we want to thank our listeners for helping out so much over the last few weeks.
And we did well every week too.
We did.
We did.
There was no let up.
And, of course, we came up with a – we coughed up a lot of items ourselves to give these people
to thank them.
And it's going to take us a while to make those and distribute them.
But you'll get them.
You'll get them.
And I think everybody, for the last fundraiser, you should have gotten everything that you
pledged for.
So, hopefully, we're all one big happy family helping each other out and keeping this place
strong and alive.
Voltaire, you're here.
Welcome.
Hi.
Trouble on the mass transit?
Yeah.
There are a lot of homeless stockbrokers that were crowding the streets.
Yeah.
They'll get in the way.
That's for sure.
I had trouble getting here from Long Island because of the Obama-McCain debate going on.
Apparently, they're closing traffic and there's a blimp up in the sky and all sorts of craziness
going on out there.
That's right.
It's in New York this time.
It's on Long Island.
Yeah.
Oh, it is.
Yeah.
Hofstra University.
So, that's going to be a ton of fun.
Now, interesting.
On the subject of debates and presidential candidates, you see this story that came out
very recently about John McCain being upset at YouTube.
Now, what exactly is going on here?
His videos are being removed for copyright infringement?
Right, because he's using clips of things like the debate and stuff like that, which
are not owned by his campaign.
He can't use clips of his own debate?
Well, he's arguing that it's fair use.
Uh-huh.
Well, what he gets to even more compellingly is that even if he has the right, if it is
fair use for him to use these clips, still YouTube's policy and YouTube's policy is designed
to comply with the law, is that as soon as they get a complaint, they take the video
down and they're not in quite such a hurry to take it back up if the poster of the video
says that, in fact, they're allowed to post it.
And so, this creates this sort of interesting situation where YouTube's legal obligation
is only to take stuff down.
Their obligation is not to put stuff back up.
And John McCain managed to be offended in this very specific instance where it affects him.
Now, according to this story from Wired, the McCain campaign's web video ads have been
repeatedly either knocked off YouTube or have had to be revamped for using excerpts of television
debate footage and pop songs as soundtracks without negotiating for the rights first.
That's something that the campaign definitely was guilty of.
Yeah, they do that all the time and different bands will complain about it.
Uh-huh.
One of its highest profile hits on the web, Obama Love, for example, faced an embarrassing
revamp in July when YouTube received the DMCA takedown notice from Time Warner Music Group.
Or actually, I'm sorry, the Warner Music Group.
The campaign had used Frankie Valli's hit tune, Can't Take My Eyes Off of You, as the
video's sarcastic soundtrack.
Interesting.
Do you think McCain is going to be a big supporter of fair use if he gets elected?
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing about this letter.
If you go and read the letter, I recommend you do it.
You can get it on Lessig's blog or wherever.
It's a really awesome letter as far as it goes.
What's Lessig's blog?
I don't think people know what that means.
Lessig.org.
Lessig, L-E-S-S-I-G.org.
Larry Lessig.
Larry Lessig.
A lot of people might not know that out there.
Well, they should learn.
He's a good guy.
Well, that's why I'm asking for his name.
All right.
Anyway, you can go read the letter.
It's a really awesome letter.
But it doesn't get past the narrow issue of this particular campaign and how copyright
is making McCain's life difficult.
It doesn't reach what I consider to be the obvious larger issue of this is making people
who aren't John McCain's life difficult.
So, yeah, interesting.
Yeah.
This is why I worry about how this might...
People are saying, oh, well, maybe this will educate people on the DMCA issues and why
it needs to be fixed.
But I'm just fearing we'll end up with another addition to it where it'll just give politicians
an exception like the Do Not Call Registry and things like that.
Absolutely.
All right.
I have something interesting that I'm not sure I'm going to play.
And actually, I'd like your advice on this and maybe some listeners as well.
When I was coming back into the country, I was away in Canada last week, which I suggest,
by the way, people should go to Canada.
It clears your head amazingly.
But when I came back, of course, I had to go through border patrol or customs agents
and questioning and things like that.
And, well, who's to say if it was inadvertent or on purpose?
But I wound up recording the guy as he was questioning me in the car as I was driving
into the country.
And I have...
I just happen to have a clip of it right here, actually the entire exchange.
But what I wanted to ask you folks before I do this, would I be breaking any law by
broadcasting this?
Bernie, what do you think?
What are you planning on broadcasting?
Basically...
Okay.
Here's how...
Should we answer this question?
Here's how it transpired.
Okay.
I was in a car.
I was with a friend.
And I have an MP3 player.
And the MP3 player has a button that turns on a microphone.
And I'm not going to say if it was something that I did deliberately or something that
I said, oh, gosh, look, I accidentally had that thing on.
That's irrelevant, I think.
But what wound up happening as a result was that the vocal cords of both myself and the
person that was in the little booth asking questions were captured digitally onto this
device.
And then earlier today, copied onto a CD and just now inserted into the WBAI CD player.
The question I'm asking is, should I hit play?
What state were you entering?
New York.
New York State.
But do New York State laws about wiretapping apply where you can be...
As long as you're one of the parties in the conversation, is that enough?
So that's usually the case.
But the question is, is there a special rule about immigration authorities?
I remember the case in New Hampshire a couple of years ago or last year where somebody videotaped
the cops coming to his own house.
And they threatened him with all sorts of things for illegal wiretapping.
And I think he was eventually vindicated.
Yes, he was.
Bernie, I'm curious.
You were in Canada there, weren't you, when you were coming over?
Well, I was in the US and I was being questioned.
Nobody questions you in Canada.
You were about 10 meters into the United States.
Pretty much, yeah.
I was just making my first cautious steps back into the country.
I'm sorry, Bernie.
Go ahead.
I thought you were on the Canada side and this was US customs.
You were going through their toll booth.
In which case, if you were in Canada, you could legally play that recording in the US.
But it sounds to me like you didn't break any laws because you were party to the conversation.
And New York is not a two-party state like Pennsylvania where both people have to be aware.
But do New York laws apply in such a situation?
Or is it federal?
Or is it something even beyond that?
You know what?
There may be, as Mike has pointed out, there may be special laws protecting law enforcement agencies
and government agents when giving them extra rights.
Like there could be some rule or regulation saying you can't record a federal officer without their knowledge.
Who knows?
But I say just go play it and see what happens.
Well, that's easy for you to say because it's going to happen to me.
Well, it could work on the air.
There really is only one way to find out and that's play it.
I'm glad everybody is in agreement on this.
But I think I'll just keep it here for a little bit longer so we can agonize over this.
No, play it now.
Oh, come on.
We have to play it up a little bit before I actually play the thing.
It's basically –
It's been enough up playing.
I mean what would have happened if there wasn't a big search?
This isn't anything really that dramatic.
But if there had been and I had recorded that and all the really probing questions I've been asked many times in the past,
then we would be talking about something really interesting.
So I want people to think this is that interesting.
What if you're not the one who hits the button to play it on air?
And there's no way to prove who hit the button.
But, again, I am the person behind the –
Actually, I guess I shouldn't have said that.
Well, I don't think playing it, I think it would be the recording of it that's questionable.
What if your elbow kind of touches?
Sorry, what?
What if your elbow kind of goes and touches?
Yeah, these are valid legal arguments that are used every day in court.
But I don't think I want to stoop to that level of –
They're used every day in court but rarely with success.
I want to stand up and take responsibility for what I've done.
I mean that's just who I am.
So I recorded this.
I recorded this willingly.
There, I said it.
It wasn't an accident.
I did it on purpose.
I didn't tell the person I was with that I did it either.
So maybe I'm in trouble with them.
And if it goes out over the air, it will be because I pressed the button and I did so willingly and without any kind of regret.
Yes, Bernie?
There is another law pertaining to providing a surreptitiously recorded oral communication to the media.
Are you saying A-U-R-A-L or O-R-A-L?
The statutory language is spelled A-U-R-A-L.
Yeah, I think the other spelling is that it wants seven dirty words.
Yeah, maybe.
And that new law came about 10, 11 years ago when Newt Gingrich's conference call, which someone on that conference call was on a cellular phone in Florida.
And a Florida couple recorded it for their radio scanner and gave it to a bleeding Democrat on the House Ethics Committee at the time.
Yeah, except, Bernie, they weren't part of the conversation.
They were eavesdropping.
They were listening on a scanner.
Yes, but then he, that congressman, turned it over to play the recording for the New York Times, the Washington Post, and I think also the L.A. Times.
And the story was all over every newspaper because it had some very shady stuff going on in that conference call.
And he was sued for doing that.
It was a civil lawsuit.
And he was successfully sued.
That case was finally just decided like a year or two ago.
It was like 10 years before all the appeals were over.
And he had to pay someone on the conference call, I don't know, $200,000 in attorney's fees and whatever.
So, but you have deep pockets, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean I also know that it's legal if you are a media outlet to take something that's interesting like that.
Like, for example, WikiLeaks wouldn't be responsible for posting Sarah Palin's email exchanges, right, because they were giving something, something pertinent.
It was sent to them.
Right.
Exactly.
The Washington Post.
But this is something that even though the radio station wouldn't be liable, but, you know, it's something I did.
And I'm willing to share it with people.
Well, you've already admitted on the air that you made the recording.
And I don't think playing it is an additional crime.
Well, it's not.
But then again, if I didn't play it, you'd still have to prove that I did it because there's no evidence of it until I play it.
You see, that's the thing there.
I'd love to hear what our listeners have to say about this, if there's any advice.
Maybe we can take some phone calls in the middle of the show.
212-209-2900.
Should I play the exchange between me and a customs officer on my way back into the country a couple of days ago?
You know, this better be a really fascinating exchange after all this.
I'm trying to tell people it's not.
It's not that interesting.
It's just the fact that I was able to do it.
Do we even want to hear it beyond all the legalities?
Is it something that our listeners want to hear?
Well, I don't know what our listeners want to hear.
Is it going to be, how are you doing today?
All right.
Well, move along then.
Maybe that's what it is.
Maybe that's all it is.
But I like to think that by analyzing this, there are some people who have never left the country.
And they don't know what to expect when they come in.
So maybe you can analyze the tone that you're liable to meet when you try to slink back into your country.
Or maybe people in other countries, never having been to the United States, might want to know the tone of the questions they would be asked.
Although I think it would be a little bit more harsh than what I would encounter.
Did you and the guard do a lot of swearing?
No.
We tried to keep that to a minimum.
And what swearing there was has been edited out.
So that's not going to be a concern.
Now, just a thought.
When you're coming into the country from abroad through an airport, generally they have to take your picture and things like that, right?
If you're a foreigner.
Supposedly they don't do it to people who live here.
Right.
But what if you're coming across a land border?
Well, there wasn't – I mean we were in a car.
So there wasn't a facility to take your picture that I could see.
There wasn't a little webcam or anything like that.
But they might ask you additional questions if you're a foreigner coming across, not a Canadian but somebody from a different country coming across.
Or they might just not let you in.
I could see there being some devices inside, say, the really major border between New York and Canada.
But then there's like these podunk little ones in Vermont or New Hampshire.
Right.
It's just a booth.
There's one where I think there's a library or an opera house or something like that where you can simply walk in one part of the building and walk out the other and you've changed countries.
Derby Line, Vermont.
Have you ever been to that one?
I have not been.
All right.
I keep wanting to do that.
I keep wanting to go to the border that supposedly is just based on the honor system.
But I can never find it.
I just never seem to have the time to go there.
But that would be a – we should all go one day.
Nice field trip.
See how many of us make it.
Hundreds of people.
See how many of us make it to the other side and then try to come back again.
Or we could try recording a conversation in that room and then seeing which laws apply to it.
Yeah.
See who gets prosecuted and sent to which facility.
If the recording device is on a different side of the line from the people actually doing the talking, you could open up a whole can of worms.
All can of worms.
And that's what we're trying to do here is open up a whole can of worms.
Yes.
212-209-2900.
Let's see if there's any advice from our listeners out there as to whether or not we should play this recording.
And the buttons are working today?
I pressed that button twice and it didn't do anything.
Let's try this one.
And good evening.
No.
See, that didn't work either.
How about that?
I got rid of all the calls by hitting two buttons.
You got rid of Bernie S. as well.
Should I call him back?
Wait.
Why was Bernie S. flashing?
Did I hit Bernie S. by accident?
I don't know.
Maybe he wasn't in his special mode.
Oh, yeah.
That button wasn't pressed.
Oh, okay.
Well, we have more calls coming in.
We're going to get Bernie back.
But first, we have to take some phone calls.
And good evening.
You're on off the hook.
All right.
You know, we can try to analyze that remark.
But apparently the person thinks it's just not worth the effort to even speak with their advice.
Okay.
If I hit this line, you can call him while I'm hitting the line, right?
So I'm going to hit that line.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Hello.
Hi.
What's on your mind?
I was just calling in to comment on your recording of the border crossing.
Yes.
Go ahead.
Is there a big sign there that says you're not allowed to videotape or take photographs
or anything like that?
I didn't see a sign like that.
I did see a sign.
And this was interesting.
As you're pulling up to the toll booth, it's not a toll booth, but it's a booth, there's
a sign saying your conversations are being monitored.
And I was wondering, what do they mean by that?
You're sitting in a car.
Are they reading your lips?
There isn't a microphone inside the car.
So what exactly do they mean, your conversations are being monitored?
Not they might be monitored when you finally get up to the booth.
They're being monitored right now.
I saw nothing though telling me not to videotape or audiotape.
There's big signs as you come up.
You're not allowed to videotape it or take cameras and stuff like that.
I didn't see that.
But again, it wasn't videotape or a camera, so maybe I'd be in the clear.
I didn't see anything.
I mean, have you ever heard of something saying you can't make an audio recording?
I've never seen a sign like that, but it says recording devices or cameras.
But even if they did say that, what law is that?
Under what jurisdiction?
I'm not a lawyer.
So I would just quietly take my CD and throw it away.
Okay, so you advise we don't play it.
I wouldn't play it.
All right.
Well, thanks for your advice.
I might have my own videotapes of it, but I would never show them to anybody.
Yeah, it would be kind of foolish, I guess,
especially to play it over a big radio station like this.
Then it's logged in and et cetera, et cetera.
Yeah, you can't back out.
You can't erase the logs or do anything like that.
No, 10 years later, you're still being sued.
That's right.
I don't think it would be a civil suit.
It would probably be a federal offense.
I might get away with it for a week or two, but maybe months, years down the road,
somebody will get upset, and then they'll come after me for this.
There's no statute of limitations.
There are crazy people who sit around and listen to the radio all day
waiting for somebody to screw up.
That's right.
And that person could be me, not the crazy person, the person screwing up.
How do we even know you made a recording?
What do you mean?
You think this is like a play that we staged?
It's possible.
Possibly, yes.
So that makes me a liar.
I'm calling you a liar until you play it.
It's worse than committing a crime.
Exactly.
So then play it then.
I'm going to take another phone call.
I think we want more than just one opinion.
Good evening.
Dial tone.
All right.
These lines keep hopping around.
It's not like people are hanging up.
It's just that they keep moving.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Lord of the People's Republic of China, you were trying to…
All right.
You sound silly, and I don't have any patience for silly-sounding people.
Good evening.
Was that a yes vote or a no vote?
I don't even know what it was.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Speak up, please.
Go ahead.
Oh, am I?
Yes, you're on the air.
Please go ahead.
Okay.
I just want to make a comment about the conversation you taped.
Mm-hmm.
You may get hit with an illegal wiretapping charge.
I've heard some people run into trouble like that.
Well, that's what we've been debating, whether or not this constitutes illegal wiretapping.
And Bernie, I think in New York State, even if this was on the telephone, it would be
permitted, correct?
I believe so.
The federal statute is United States Code, Title 18, Section 2511, I believe.
I don't know.
Wow.
A lot of states use the same numbers, so it could be the same number in New York.
But people should look it up and become familiar with it before you go around recording stuff.
Or just consult you.
You apparently have the whole thing in your head.
Well, I had reasons.
Well, that's true, too.
That's true.
But, okay, thanks for that call.
Wow, we got a lot of them now.
This is a hot topic.
Now the buttons aren't even working.
They're not even turning.
Diatones especially.
Wow, amazing.
Good evening.
You're on off.
Oh, come on.
This isn't fair.
The diatones have a lot to say on this topic.
Yeah, but I'm one step ahead of...
Okay, I'm one step behind.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Yeah, I suspect that you could be sued both by the government and the individual.
The reason I'm saying that is that, first of all, they announced to you that they're
monitoring, which means that I believe the agents are carrying, they're being taped.
They've got mics on them so that they're being recorded.
We could have a different mix of this whole conversation now.
Yeah, yeah, they're recording you talking to them.
But the thing is is that this comes under eavesdropping, okay?
And if you are a newsperson gathering news, all right, out in a public area,
then there shouldn't be any problem, you know?
But they have changed things.
It's the same thing with photography.
The laws have not been changed in terms of the fact that you can take a picture of anything
you want to out in public space except for, you know, postal service property and certain
areas of certain military installations.
However, after the passage of the Patriot Act, it's not a matter of law anymore.
It's a matter of policy.
And so they twist things around a little bit, you know?
And, again, I suspect that you could be sued both in civil and criminal court,
and I don't think it's worth a chance because you can find out exactly what the situation is
both in law and in policy.
So you think we should do some more research before hitting the button?
I would.
I would definitely do that.
By the way, before I get off the phone, you guys, you know, did such a wonderful job
helping the station out raising money.
It occurs to me, though, that you could do a lot more help, you know,
in terms of getting them to understand things like the fact that in South America
and Central America, when they need to raise money for catastrophes like, you know,
hurricanes and things like that, like the TV stations, they'll have phone numbers up
where all you do is call.
You want to contribute $10, $20, $50, $100.
You just call that number.
It goes on your phone bill.
They collect the money that way.
You don't have to have people taking phone calls and things like that.
And there's a whole stack of other ways to work your own phone systems in terms of multi-tiered,
you know, well, you know, all right, you've got a basic subscription, $25.
Let's a person, you know, vote.
Well, a $50 subscription, maybe that will give you a key for free downloads,
and the downloads off of the, you know, the site should be sold for a very nominal sum,
but sold and so on and so forth.
You know what I'm saying?
Right, with 900 numbers and things like that.
That's actually pretty popular.
I don't know if it's something that we do here in BAI because we just like the personal touch
so much of actually speaking to listeners, but something to consider.
We always are looking for new ideas.
Thanks for your thoughts and your comments and things like that.
I have another idea.
If they're recording you, under the U.S. law, you have a right to any records that they keep about you.
So I'm wondering if you filed a Privacy Act request for their recording of this conversation,
I wonder if you'd get it or not.
I think the answer is no, you wouldn't get it, but I wonder why.
If you got it, would you be able to broadcast that recording?
Yeah, that's a good question.
To be honest, what people are telling me now is convincing me that I should play this
because people just seem too afraid.
I'm in my own car.
Well, it's a rental car, but I'm recording a conversation I'm having with somebody who I'm not leaving the car.
I'm not going to them.
They're coming to me, and why don't I have the right to record something in my own car?
Emmanuel?
Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
Something we just touched on a minute ago that we didn't pursue.
If the officer questioning you was aware that his agency was recording the conversation,
then he would have no reasonable expectation of privacy,
which is a term of art used in these wiretapping statutes.
But why should he have any expectation of privacy?
He's asking me questions on a public street.
It's a gray area, whether it's a public place or not, when he's talking into your car.
But here's another thing.
You could ask him and say, in hindsight, if you were driving through,
you could have said, do I understand that this call may be recorded?
Use that inflection.
Do I understand that this conversation may be recorded?
And if he says yes, it's being recorded.
You see, Bernie, that's your way of doing it,
but I think that you might come across as a wiseacre and then flag all kinds of things.
Let's take one or two more calls and then figure out what we're going to do.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Is this Radio Monroe?
Not anymore.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Speak up, please.
Go ahead.
Yes, turn down your radio.
Speak up.
I was listening to this, and you bring up two good points,
one being that you have, like, all these laws, but one that people should know.
Personally, I think that if you want them to know, play it.
But if you're too in fear of the laws, maybe you could, like,
stage exactly the same conversation, but, like, with you.
So we should act it out and not actually play the real conversation.
That's priceless.
Thanks for that suggestion.
That's something that I'll definitely remember forever.
Oh, boy.
You know, I've got to say, folks,
it's amazing that you guys in the studio want me to play,
and every one of our listeners is urging all this caution.
I understand.
I understand the fear.
I understand what we're facing,
but has it really reached a stage where you can't record conversations you're
having yourself and share them with people?
You know, I think another interesting point is that with this,
we're talking about recording voice and recording personal communication,
but if you were kind of to turn the same thing around with digital
communications, if I'm sitting outside your house,
and you have a wireless network, and I'm just listening
and recording to the traffic coming from your network,
then that's okay because I'm passively listening.
Yeah, but you're also not a part of a conversation.
You're eavesdropping.
That's a totally different thing.
All right.
All right.
Let's get one or two more.
I wonder if any listener is going to suggest I play this.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Yes.
Hi.
Hi.
You're listening.
It's a good topic that you're talking about.
You know, there was a situation that happened with you,
and many times you see on the television that there's recording of things
that people go through and everything,
and here in the United States to speak about that,
if something happens to you, you're on a conversation,
something that's happening to you, you should have a right to, you know,
to express it to everybody that this is the situation that happened to you,
and also an officer is a public, someone like a public servant as well.
All right.
So you think I should play it?
Yeah.
You should have that right.
It's something that happened to you.
Okay.
Well, thanks for your opinion there.
I've got one person at least that agrees with me,
how I feel about this now.
I've been to the Brooklyn Bridge, though,
and we're not supposed to take pictures of that.
Yeah, but we do anyway.
Yeah, and nobody gets in trouble.
And we don't follow these stupid, ridiculous rules
that don't have any basis in legality.
There's actually, along the East River, there's a stand,
like an information booth kind of stand,
that says this is a great place to take a picture,
and the Brooklyn Bridge is right there.
Yeah, and they say try it, and we'll throw your ass in jail.
It's leading you into it.
That's what it's doing.
All right.
One more phone call.
Let's see if there's any good advice here.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Don't play it.
Well, that's not...
I was hoping for more of an argument than that.
It's a bit ambiguous.
Yeah.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Hey, how's it going out there?
Pretty good.
Hey, you know, I really care about you guys,
and, you know, I know you guys.
I would love to hear it, but, hey,
you know that after you guys are ready, man,
I don't want you guys in trouble,
so maybe you should use precaution first.
Find out legally from a lawyer or somebody
if you can really play it.
Yeah, but, you know, lawyers always tell you not to do things.
You ask a lawyer, and they're always going to say,
err on the side of caution.
Don't cause any waves.
And, you know, we exist to cause waves.
That's true.
That's what we're here for.
And if we stop doing that, then we've really lost something.
And if we can get in trouble or if I can get in trouble
for something so ridiculously minor as recording a brief exchange
with a customs officer, you know,
I want to, at least let's, I think the advantage of playing this
is that it'll become clearer then.
Yeah, well, you know, I agree with you, man.
I love you guys.
That's why we love you guys,
because you guys are on the damn edge.
You know, so my vote is to play it
because I'm in support of you guys.
All right, there we go.
You be careful because...
You broke the tie there.
It was like eight against and two for,
and that for me is over the top.
Thank you.
All right, so here's what we're going to do.
I guess I'll give a little prelude to it first.
Basically, we had been waiting online,
just not for very long at all.
But I think there are two cars in front of us.
But one thing I noticed,
and you'll hear me commenting on this,
as you come up to the border,
they have these big, huge digital clocks
to tell you what time it is.
And they're random times.
One said 9.45 p.m.
It was like four o'clock in the afternoon.
And the other one said seven in the morning.
It's like how hard is it to keep the time
in such big, massive numbers correct?
It's the first thing you see
when you come into the country,
and it's complete wackiness.
And to have two of them,
two of them that say the wrong time,
it's just simply unbelievable.
Okay, so what you'll hear is the customs guy
just asking me a couple of routine questions.
Now, what I'd like people to pay attention to
is just the tone and the amount of time
that he pauses after I answer a question.
I'm just trying to read inflection into that.
And, well, it lasts about a minute and a half.
So we barely have enough time to play this.
So let's listen.
Okay, and for some reason, it didn't work.
I'm sorry.
I have it up?
Oh, you know what?
Someone put that into B.
I can't believe somebody did that.
Why did they do that?
I've got to re-cue it now.
Hold on.
Even the machine doesn't want you to play it.
Here we go.
Why is the time wrong?
For God's sake, coming into the country,
right away, the time is like,
oh, it says 12, 18 p.m.
What time is it actually?
I don't know.
And that's, look at that, 7.45 a.m.
Hello.
How you doing?
Hey, citizenship's here?
U.S.A.
You're both U.S. citizens?
Yes.
How do you two know each other?
From school, college.
Where's that?
Stony Brook State University.
Whose car is this one?
That's Avis' rental car.
You got the rental group?
Yeah.
What are you doing up here?
Visiting Quebec City and Montreal.
Do you guys know anybody in either of those places?
Nope.
Actually, I know somebody, but he wasn't around,
so I didn't hang out with him.
Do either of you buy anything up there?
Does that include duty-free?
Yeah.
A bottle of maple syrup.
So besides the maple syrup,
everything in this car,
you brought to Canada yourselves?
As far as I know.
Yeah?
As far as I know, yeah.
And where'd you rent it?
I rented this on Long Island,
near Stony Brook, actually in Stony Brook.
That's where you got to bring it back?
Yep.
Can you just shut the car off and pop the trunk?
Sure.
Hang on, I gotta figure out how to do that.
Okay, and that's pretty much it.
I popped the trunk at that point.
He went into the trunk and opened a single bag,
and what did he see as soon as he opened the bag?
A big bottle of maple syrup.
So he knew I was telling the truth,
as far as that goes.
Now, we agonized over this for a long time.
Should we tell him about what we bought at the duty-free?
Do you have to do that?
Does that count?
That's why I asked.
Does it count duty-free?
So I think I appeared to be honest that way.
I also mentioned, even though I didn't have to,
a friend of mine that I hadn't visited,
even though he asked if I knew anybody up there,
and you get a little bit nervous.
You feel like you have to tell more
than they're actually asking.
But he looked at that, closed the trunk,
and wished me a good day,
and we were on our way from that point on.
It's funny, because even if you have nothing to hide,
just the way they speak to you makes you feel nervous.
Yeah, no, I felt totally nervous.
You have every right to come into the country.
You don't have anything illegal.
Right, it's my country, and I didn't do anything wrong.
And yet, it just puts you on edge.
But afterwards, we realized that we also had...
I had bought some beer, a six-pack of beer, actually,
that we never drank, and it was in the trunk.
I forgot about that.
It's an American brand anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
And my friend had bought shoes.
So he had shoes on his feet that had come from Canada.
On his very feet?
On his very feet.
We were lying through our teeth.
You travel with real criminals.
Yeah, we were inadvertently lying,
and we were thinking about going back and fessing up,
but we decided to just lamb it
and hope that nothing stupid happens,
like this got out somehow.
Okay, so there it is, cards on the table.
We played it.
Now we'll see what happens.
othat2600.com is our email address.
In case anyone has any subpoenas to serve us,
you can do it by email now.
We're actually moving out of here early tonight
because we have the debate coming up in a few minutes,
and Pacifica coverage of that is next.
So we're going out tonight with a special phone-related song
from a band that you'll never find called Magazine 60.
We'll see you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.
See you next week.