The re-incarceration of Michael Bell, the recently released member of the Gina Six, is a part of this ongoing war.
Children aren't children. They're merely young combatants who should be terrorized, just like their elders.
Unfortunately, I've predicted the outcome in Florida to other guys here on Death Row.
I'm sorry that I was right.
From Death Row, this is Mumia Abu-Jamal.
These commentaries are produced by Noel Hanrahan for Prison Radio.
And you're listening to Free Speech Radio News here on radio station WBAI in New York.
Time is 7.02. Time for Off The Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving. Now I can't make a cough.
We couldn't get much worse. But if they could, they would.
Bum-diddly-bum for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood. Bum-diddly-bum!
I hope that's understood. Bum-diddly-bum!
I hope that's understood. Bum-diddly-bum!
I hope that's understood. Bum-diddly-bum!
I hope that's understood. Bum-diddly-bum!
I hope that's understood. Bum-diddly-bum!
I hope that's understood. Bum-diddly-bum!
I hope that's understood. Bum-diddly-bum!
I hope that's understood. Bum-diddly-bum!
I hope that's understood. Bum-diddly-bum!
Bernie, are you there?
Oh dear, we seem to have lost Bernie.
Could you look into that, Mike?
How strange, we just had him.
There was nobody there, right?
Well, that's the Trials of Sprint PCS for you,
as we once again try to establish a connection here at the radio station.
All right, we're going to open up with...
Is he there? OK. Bernie, are you with us?
Bernie, are you there?
OK, really, you've got to switch phone companies.
Every single week it's something else.
All right, well, as I was starting to say,
we have some very sad and disturbing news.
We found out yesterday that our colleague
and co-host here at the radio show,
who's been here for many years, Jim,
suffered a serious stroke a week ago, Tuesday,
and is currently in serious condition in a hospital in Brooklyn.
I believe, Bernie, you found out most of the information
as far as just what Jim's condition is when this happened.
I know he hasn't been here the last few weeks,
and we were starting to grow concerned because we hadn't heard from him,
but the interesting thing is that it happened a week ago,
and he had been out actually for several weeks before that.
Yes, apparently his condition was leading up to this stroke,
which happened last Tuesday night,
which is why he was not on the show last week.
And we desperately tried to track him down,
and I finally located a number for him yesterday
and spoke with his mother and his sister,
who just flew in from Australia, to be with him.
And he's not doing well.
He's not really coherent,
and I would encourage our listeners who are concerned
to send cards or letters of support.
Even though he's not in a position to read them,
his sister and others could read them to him,
and hopefully that information will get into his cortex.
Well, I think that's a very important point, Bernie,
because it's extremely likely, in my opinion,
that even though he might not be able to express himself,
that he could be very aware of what's going on around him
and hearing words from people,
including people who listen to the program,
will actually make a big difference in his recovery.
I certainly hope so.
Yes, I firmly believe the same thing.
Just because someone outwardly does not express
any apparent signs of awareness
doesn't mean that there's not mental activity going on,
and I'm sure there is.
In Jim's case, because he had ample mental activity for us all,
every show he graced his presence with.
So I'd like to give an address at the hospital
where people can send cards and letters to.
I got permission from his sister to do this,
to give us the information out in the air.
He cannot accept visitors.
He's in no position.
He's in the intensive care unit, frankly.
But I'd like to give that out. Can I give that out now?
Go ahead.
All right.
Jim is in the ICU of the Lutheran Medical Center,
and you can send mail to Lutheran Medical Center.
Attention, Jim Vichench, that's V-I-C-H-E-N-C-H,
room number 4637,
and the address is 150 55th Street, Brooklyn, New York,
11220.
Again, that's Lutheran Medical Center.
Attention, Jim Vichench, V-I-C-H-E-N-C-H, room number 4637,
the address 150 55th Street in Brooklyn, New York, 11220.
Cards, letters, please don't send flowers.
Cards or letters of support.
And if you can't mail anything, send us email.
The attention of Jim at O-T-H at 2600.com.
Print these out and have them read to him.
I'm sure it can only help.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Jim has been a fixture here at this radio show for many years.
I first met him in 1994 when our friend FiberOptic was in prison,
and Jim basically came out of nowhere to help out with the HOPE Conference,
and also played a key role in welcoming Fiber back to civilization
when he was released later that year.
And ever since then, he's always been involved one way or another.
Certainly the expert on the MTA, on MetroCards.
That was actually where he made his debut in front of the public,
giving a panel at HOPE in 1994 and again in 1997
about the insecurities and potential flaws of the MetroCard.
And ever since then, he's been a bastion of information
as far as just facts and figures about the subway systems
and all sorts of other things, too.
Remember, this guy was on Jeopardy.
We called him Jeopardy Jim because he just had so many facts,
so many interesting tidbits of information.
And basically you could almost ask him anything,
and he'd give a pretty good guess if he didn't know the actual answer.
So yeah, when you say he has a head full of knowledge,
you're not exaggerating there. He certainly does.
And I wanted to just point out to our listeners
that may not have heard Jim over the years,
he has this uncanny ability to form relationships
between some of the arcane and obscure topics we discuss on this program
and relate them to maybe equally obscure events in history.
He just draws these parallels.
I don't know where he comes up with this stuff,
but he's just a wealth of amazing information and insight.
And that brain's got to be working, I'm sure.
So please send your letters and cards of support in,
and if you can't mail anything by e-mail,
please send us something at attentionofjim at oth2600.com.
We'll make sure he hears it.
And also if there are people out there who might have any kind of medical advice
or connections or things like that,
I think anything at this point would certainly be most helpful.
One thing that's really gotten to me when talking to people who know Jim
and have talked to him over the past month or so,
everybody seems to have another piece of the puzzle.
It turned out that there were signs that something was wrong,
and some of us knew something and some of us knew something else.
And when you piece it all together, yeah, something was definitely up,
and he should have been in the hospital long before this actually happened to him.
And the thing that really gets me and makes me really enraged is the fact that
this is a guy who didn't have health insurance.
He lost his job with the MTA, obviously.
He lost any benefits that he might have had,
and obviously he didn't go to the hospital.
He didn't seek out medical help because he didn't have any money to pay for it.
And this is something that I think was completely avoidable.
At the very least, it could have been controlled
or just simply not as bad as it is right now
if there had been decent medical help given to him.
And I have no words to express in ways that the FCC will allow
for a society where this kind of thing can happen,
where somebody can obviously have signs that something is seriously wrong
and yet not seek out medical help because they don't have the money to pay for it.
And as a result, they suffer a massive stroke and are currently in the ICU.
Even now, it's my understanding that his family is running all around looking for paperwork
just to keep the current level of care going.
His sister related to me that to enroll Jim in some sort of public health care program right now
so his health care can continue in the ICU, she needs to provide some form of photo ID.
I don't believe Jim was an automobile driver, and we're not sure if he has photo ID,
but she can't find any photo ID that he had.
She's gone through his wallet, his bedroom, and looked through the whole house.
It's just insane that someone in this country can't get decent medical care
without paperwork or the money to keep them from lapsing into intensive care.
This enrages me.
Yeah, me too.
I don't know. I honestly am at my wits' end here as far as what we do about this,
but my God, if you ever needed better evidence of a messed up system, this is it right here.
It's hit us close to home this week.
Again, let me give out the address one more time.
We'll give it out a couple more times throughout the hour.
It's Lutheran Medical Center, Jim, attention, Jim Vichance, that's spelled V-I-C-H-E-N-C-H,
room 4637, and that's at 150 55th Street in Brooklyn, New York, 11220.
Cards, letters, anything that Jim might be able to hear and understand would certainly be helpful
when someone is in a condition like this.
I think any kind of stimuli is certainly beneficial to them.
As Bernie said, if you can't actually send something in the mail, by all means send us email,
oth2600.com, we'll print it out and make sure that it gets to him.
Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Hopefully this will get through and help in his recovery.
Hopefully we're over the worst of this.
So I have a request.
Jim's sister, who just flew out from Australia to help out with a situation,
is in desperate need of access to the Internet.
Jim did not have Internet access at his home.
He would go to a library or something, apparently.
But if any of our listeners are aware of any free Internet cafes or a coffee shop
or a library where there's free access to the Internet where there are computers,
she doesn't have a laptop with her that she could bring.
In Brooklyn, the address would be near Oliver Street in Brooklyn.
The zip code is 11209.
If any of our listeners know of a place where someone can just sort of walk in
and have access to a computer that has Internet access for free,
that would be extremely helpful.
Email that information to us at oth2600.com.
We will get that to Jim's sister so she can get on the Internet
and exchange emails with people in an effort to try to help Jim.
Okay.
Like I said, Jim's been a fixture here for many, many years.
Interestingly, he probably shared very little political viewpoints of people around here
or ourselves or anything like that,
but that added to the interesting level of it all,
and it also goes to show how here at the station we're like a family
as far as just people of all different shapes and sizes and political bents
coming through the door and exchanging ideas and things like that.
So you better believe we all care about this,
and we'll do everything that we can to ensure that Jim gets the best of Karen now
and that he's in our thoughts and that he gets as much material from out there
to help him as humanly possible.
So in advance I want to thank people for their support.
And also it's kind of awkward this week because, well, first a programming note,
we're not on next week and we're also not on the week after that,
and I know that's kind of bad timing.
I do want our listeners to know, though,
that after us tonight will be the Personal Computer Show.
They were originally thought they would not be on tonight,
but they will in fact be on.
Okay.
But as far as this program goes, we won't be on for the next couple of weeks,
three weeks from tonight, so obviously we won't have many updates until then.
You might want to check on the website or something.
But tonight also, as many of you know, is a fundraising night,
and apologies in advance to the station because we have –
I don't think it's going to be very easy to actually stand up
and encourage people to call in and pledge money and things like that
in light of the mood around here right now.
That's why I'd like to ask people to just please call.
Save us the trouble of having to try and sound enthusiastic.
It's really, really hard right now.
The phone number is 212-209-2950.
And basically we're going to have a couple of guests on.
We're going to speak to them in just a minute or two,
and we're going to have a special premium as far as that goes.
But we also have leftover from last week,
and this really is the last time you'll have the chance to call in
for the Brain Machines.
I believe a pledge of $100 got you the Brain Machine kit,
which basically means that we send you the parts
and you build the Brain Machine that allows you to basically
experience other dimensions, go into some form of hypnosis, things like that.
Or for $150, you get the assembled version that we slave over
and build ourselves.
And depending on your level of expertise,
that's which one you should pledge for.
It's up to you.
212-209-2950, that's if you're interested in those particular items
left over from last week.
After tonight, no more.
We have on the phone with us,
we actually have a couple of people with us.
We have Wallace Wang, who is the author of a rather interesting book.
I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
Steal This Computer Book 4.0.
That's right, 4.0.
Wallace, are you with us?
Yes, I am.
Thank you for having me on your show.
Thanks for joining us.
And also joining us is Bill Pollack from No Storage Press.
I'm here.
Thanks for having me.
And you're the publisher of this book, I believe.
Among others, yes.
Yes, many others.
We can get into that a little bit.
Many other annoying titles.
Well, Wallace, why don't we start with having you tell us
what this book is all about and how it came to be.
Well, basically, Steal This Computer Book came about
because I was fascinated by the whole computer underground
with virus writers and Trojan horse writers,
and I just wanted to learn more about it.
And the more I got involved with it,
I realized that these weren't just teenagers in their basements
trying to cause havoc around the world.
Some of them were politically motivated.
Some of them were.
They wanted to cause damage,
but a lot of them just wanted to have fun or learn programming.
They didn't appear to fit the stereotype
that the media painted them out to be as these cyber terrorists,
and that's why I wrote the book to just make people more aware
that this is what the real world was like
and it wasn't this whole fantasy.
And this is 4.0.
Does that mean there are three versions before this?
Yes, this is the fourth version.
And originally, the book,
I have to give Bill credit for the title.
It's from Abbie Hoffman's original book, Steal This Book.
I have to credit Abbie Hoffman with that title.
Yes.
It's an homage to Abbie.
Definitely, definitely.
So, okay, what have you found that has changed
in the four versions that have come out so far?
Sadly, not a whole lot.
Because technology-wise, things have changed a lot.
Viruses are no longer the big threat.
It's more the spam, the spyware, the online coronavirus.
But beyond the technical point of view,
I think people are pretty much still aren't, to my level,
being aware of what the real dangers are out there.
And the real danger isn't the technology itself.
It's what people apply and use that technology for.
And a perfect example is the whole spyware business.
I mean, people, we all know that you get spyware
in your computer, and that's bad.
And the government wants to outlaw things like that.
And that's, you know, people think that's good.
But then the government turns around
and does something similar to that.
Or Sony does it with their copy-protected CDs.
And suddenly now we've just lost the line
of what's good and bad.
Right.
Well, do you think there's any good in spyware itself?
Well, again, the technology can be used for good.
Because if, like, the government's using
spyware program to track down terrorists
to prevent another 9-11, well, yeah,
I think most people would say that's good.
But we don't know, can we trust the government, first of all?
Uh-huh.
Second of all, what?
It sounds like you don't trust the government.
Well, he loves the government.
I love the government.
I'm just not the one that happens to be running the White House.
Uh-huh.
So, yeah.
Interesting.
I think that's the big fallacy that I find
with most people in America,
is that they have this blind faith
that the government and authority,
whatever the authority figure happens to be,
knows what's best,
because they happen to be self-declared
and proclaimed authorities.
And I don't think that's quite the case.
Well, I think in many cases,
people just don't want to be bothered.
So they just sort of want to cast it off
to some entity someplace and say,
okay, I'm not going to worry about what's going on
in the day-to-day world.
I'm not going to even read the news
or pay attention to what's going on.
Let's just assume that the people in charge
know what they're doing,
and as long as I have my Big Macs and my SUVs,
I'm fine.
I just think that's the mentality,
that people really...
It's not a question of trust so much.
It's a question of not wanting to be worried
and just want to continue the comfortable lifestyle
we've all become addicted to.
Yeah, I think it's that whole short-term mentality.
Like you said, you just want your Big Mac,
you want your SUV,
you want a big screen glass TV.
Immediate gratification.
What was that, Bill?
It's immediate gratification.
I mean, people...
But I think people are very stressed out these days,
not only because things move so fast.
You have people with different age groups
who haven't kept pace with things
for whom the Internet is still a real puzzle.
I just had a...
I was meeting with a guy just a couple of hours ago.
He probably doesn't really have much understanding
of computers and certainly doesn't understand
the concept of hacking
or what hacking has meant historically.
A lot of this stuff is very scary to him,
and that's why people can turn around and say,
who is it?
I don't know the name,
but this woman who was set upon by the RAA.
Yes.
Basically, the jury said,
this guy is guilty, and this is terrible,
and get rid of him.
A lack of understanding of what people do, even.
I think the comment was,
her claim is that her email address
had been spoofed or something,
and this guy is like,
well, that's not possible.
There's no such thing.
This concept is ridiculous.
When publishing Steal This Computer Book,
one of the main things that I was interested in doing,
and I think we've succeeded,
is just sort of open up people's eyes
to the kinds of things that are out there
so that they can understand and be smarter consumers,
and rather than just label people,
understand what different groups are about
and that there's a variety of things that people do.
Let me just take this opportunity to say
that we are, in fact,
offering the book by Wallace Wang,
the 4.0 of Steal This Computer Book,
and you can call 212-209-2950.
What are we offering it for, Mike?
For your donation of $75 to the radio station,
you can get a copy of Steal This Computer Book 4.0
shipped to your home and...
Or office.
Office.
Or P.O. Box.
Or a friend's home, too.
You can even have it shipped there
if you really wish to,
but we'll ship it wherever you want us to ship it,
as long as you pledge something to the radio station
and keep this place going.
212-209-2950.
And also, a pledge of $75,
you'll get the off-the-hook t-shirt.
In fact, any pledge $30 and above,
you'll get an off-the-hook t-shirt.
So whatever you wish to pledge for,
make sure that you get...
As long as you pledge during this hour,
$30 and above, you'll get an off-the-hook t-shirt.
But the book sounds really interesting.
I don't have a copy in front of me, unfortunately.
I wish I did.
But tell us, Wallace,
what some of the chapters are in the book.
Well, some of the chapters,
one of them that I particularly like
is the way hate groups are using the Internet
to propagate their ideas.
And these aren't just the white supremacist Holocaust deniers,
but these are the religious, the right-wing,
far-right-wing people,
and also the left-wing.
And they're all just using the Internet
just to gain new members
and try and tell people
the world's an evil place,
and they have the only answers and solutions.
Okay, so you present that information,
and where do you go with it
after saying that there's hate groups
out there on the Internet?
Well, basically, the whole point of that is to...
Again, the basic theme of Steal This Computer Book
is don't necessarily trust authority.
And a lot of these hate groups
are coming up with so-called facts
about their ideas and why they're right.
And, of course, you can examine their ideas
and encourage people to visit their websites
and read their information,
but also kind of keep a critical eye and say,
okay, why are these people doing this,
and how are they trying to necessarily trick me,
but not tell me the complete picture?
And then I later on apply that
to how online con artists
are attacking people by the spam,
the online, you know,
buy this puppy from Nigeria or whatever,
and you can sell puppies
or make a million dollars from these scams.
Well, it sounds like you turn a critical eye
towards pretty much any source of information
on the Internet.
Oh, yes, that's my point,
is the Internet is full of information,
but can you trust it?
Do you know what its agenda is?
And why are you even looking
at certain information out there?
Because a lot of those websites out there
are just trying to attract people and viewers
for those advertisements.
People tend to trust the Internet,
and it's one reason that phishing scams
are so effective.
People click on stuff in their email,
they trust it all,
and one problem I see is
people who are hackers in a traditional sense
get blamed as the people
causing these horrible problems,
when there's probably some guy in Nigeria,
not to knock on the Nigerians,
but who's running some phishing scam
out of his house with his neighbors.
I don't know what happens there,
but this is a real problem,
and everyone points to hackers as they see them
as the source of all the evil that they encounter
when they go on the Internet,
and the Internet is a terrific resource,
but there are certain dangers out there
that people don't understand,
and they fall into traps very easily.
Who would you say, Bill or Wally,
would be the people that should really read this book?
All others.
Yeah, exactly.
She has read it, though.
The senior citizens,
just people who weren't born with technology,
and they don't understand it,
and they get on the Internet,
and they trust everyone,
they believe everything they read,
and they just fall for it.
Somebody says,
I'm from America Online,
and your account has been hacked,
and we need to get your Social Security number
and your credit card number.
Well, my dad has fallen for that type of trick
at least three or four times,
just because he trusts people,
and that's the way he's always been,
and that's probably the way he's always going to be.
And he'll just fall for the same trick
over and over again.
Well, and the thing is,
it's not always the same trick.
They tend to advance
with complexity over the years.
The one I see a lot,
people forward me things saying,
hey, is this real?
Things from PayPal,
or things that look like they're from PayPal.
Of course, if you look at the actual address
it comes from,
which sometimes you have to dive a little deeper
into the headers to actually see it,
you'll see that it's actually coming
from some other place entirely,
and the link,
the link that you're supposed to click on,
if you have HTML mail,
which I don't have,
but if you have that,
you're going to see a link that says
click here for PayPal,
and it'll look like you're going to PayPal,
and you will not see in the text
the display of where that site is actually taking you.
You can make the text on a web page
say it's taking you to PayPal,
but if you look at the source code of the web page,
then you'll see that it's actually taking you
to some other distant land someplace
where the people there are running a page,
a web page that looks just like a PayPal web page,
and you think that you're logging into your account,
when in actuality,
you're giving them your username and your password.
Web pages are just HTML code,
and it's so easy just to copy it off a legitimate site
and create it on a fake website.
Absolutely.
It's the easiest thing in the world to pull off,
and people fall for that all the time.
So, now, what do you suggest for somebody
who finds himself being victimized by things like this?
Well, first thing is education,
to be aware that this problem is even happening,
because I think too many people think
that the Internet is a place that you can trust,
and I think they fall into the illusion,
like when you walk into a bank or a shopping mall,
you see the building, the physical shape,
and nobody's going to clone a bank
and put it in the next block over,
and they apply that thinking to the Internet.
When they see PayPal, even though it's a fake website,
it's the same source code to create the web page,
and they just believe, well, it looks the same,
so it must be the same.
One comment I wanted to make about the book
is that when we published the first edition,
I think in 1997, is that right?
I think that's right, Wally.
Yes.
And this book opened my eyes to the entire hacking community,
and I now have made this a real focus
of our publishing program.
I probably go to, I don't know,
six or eight hacking-related conferences per year.
In fact, I saw Emanuel at CCC Camp in Berlin.
That's right.
But a lot of this, when we first published this,
was very new to me.
I didn't know anything about the community.
Now I feel like I'm tightly involved with the community,
and we published, for example,
this book, Hacking the Art of Exploitation,
which has become a real standard way
for people to bring themselves up,
and I think it's important not to look at this book
as a book for seniors, because it's not really that,
and it's, I mean, certainly there are people
who are older and missed a lot of computing
and don't understand it, but it opened my eyes,
and I certainly wasn't a senior in 1997,
and I'd like to think I'm still not,
and it created a whole focus in our publishing program,
and I try to publish books for hackers,
especially for people who are serious
about looking at problems with the Internet
and understanding how it works and improving things.
For those of us who are seniors,
I'm not a senior either, but for those of us who are,
it's, I don't know why we're all so quick to deny.
We're never going to be seniors.
Well, eventually we all will be seniors,
but the point is that we have a lot of seniors
who listen to the show, and actually they get technology.
A lot of them get technology quite well,
but what I find our listeners anyway
really have in common is just the desire to learn more
and to become educated and to be a part
of all this that's going on around them,
because so often, so often various communities,
various groups in our society are excluded,
and I like to think that what we offer here,
what you're offering through the books,
is inclusive and that many people can benefit from this,
and seniors, kids, executives, corporate spies,
enemy agents, whoever is out there.
They won't get, enemy agents won't get too much out of it.
Oh, if you can read, you know,
you should be able to learn something.
Well, I think that was the reason I wrote,
part of the reason I wrote Steal This Computer book
was to help demystify the whole hacking mystique,
like viruses.
A lot of people had no idea what viruses were
or how they were created, how they spread,
and basically I dissected it in the book
and just said it's a computer program,
and this is how these people have been creating them.
They've been using toolkits.
They pass source code over IRC chat rooms or whatever,
and I hope people would read that and go,
oh, okay, a virus isn't this mysterious thing
from outer space that's infecting my computer,
but it's something that I can understand,
and once I understand it, I can block it or detect it.
Okay, that's good things to learn right there.
212-209-2950 is our phone number.
Again, we are offering this book for a pledge of $75
and also the off-the-hook t-shirt.
You won't find a better deal than that, I don't think.
212-209-2950.
We're up to $450.
That's a mere fraction of last week when we made over $4,000,
but obviously we had the brain machines being introduced
last week, which we still have a couple of,
but this week we're focusing on this particular book,
Steal This Computer book version 4.0,
and it's a great addition to anyone's library.
212-209-2950.
Please bring in as many calls as possible.
As you may have heard already, this is a very difficult week
for us to be pitching and asking for your support
because our colleague Jim is in serious condition
in the hospital, and we'll give you more details on that
if you have not already heard in the minutes ahead.
I just wanted to say we get all these e-mails from time to time
from people who say, you know,
I really like your program off-the-hook,
but I oftentimes have no idea what you're talking about.
It sounds like this book will really help those people
understand some of what we're talking about,
and people who do often understand what we're talking about
I think will understand even better.
So 212-209-2950 is the number to call to get a copy
and show your support for the radio station.
You could also pick it up in your library or bookstore.
Bit torrent? Oh.
Maybe, but the point is that we're here tonight
because listeners like you have supported this station in the past.
That's the only reason this place continues to exist,
and that's what we need for you to continue to do.
Or if you have not already done it, if this is your first time,
then we would like you to join the family
and become a part of this place
and help it to continue for many years to come
so that we can continue talking about such subjects.
It's a very simple process.
We take all sorts of credit cards.
The whole thing gets done very quickly,
and it's a very pleasant experience for those of us who have done it.
There's four calls on the line right now.
Mike, are there four people down there?
There were when I checked before the show.
Are there more than four people is my point,
because now there's five calls on the line.
Well, they're very talented.
I just want to warn folks, if you call,
and for whatever reason the phone keeps ringing
and doesn't get picked up,
it doesn't mean that we've walked away from this
and that we don't care anymore.
It means a lot of people are calling up,
and please just hang up and call back
if the phone stops ringing for whatever reason,
if Verizon says, oh, we're going to give you a fast busy
because no one's picking up, which they do now.
Please, 212-209-2950.
That's our telephone number,
and the more calls we get, obviously,
the stronger this place becomes and the longer.
You'll continue to hear such talk and ideas
and various people over the years.
It's a magical environment, 212-209-2950.
Now, Bill, as publisher of this book and many others,
tell us something about No Starch, your history,
the kinds of other books that you've published over the years.
Well, the company changed a lot in 2000.
We started doing sort of computer books for hobbyists.
I published a book for needle crafters and quilters,
very different from what we do today.
Wally's book, I mean, Phil's computer book,
really did change the way I looked at computer book publishing,
and I discovered what I've since found to be a fascinating community,
and I have lots of friends in the hacking community.
In 2000, we changed direction,
began focusing on more geeky topics,
and now we really are, I mean, with the occasional Windows book thrown in,
we do try to focus on books for geeks.
And so recent titles, for example,
we just published a title called Security Data Visualization,
which is a fascinating topic to me.
It's these graphical tools you can use to figure out what's happening with a network.
We're publishing a couple of books on LEGO Mindstorms.
Maybe your listeners are familiar with that.
It's a LEGO robotics kit that's pretty fun to use.
There's a real fascination with LEGOs in this community, I'll tell you that.
Yeah, well, we have a book called The Unofficial LEGO Builder's Guide
that I think we've sold 25,000 copies in over a year.
In fact, if I could just say at this point,
for the next conference that we're having,
which will be in New York City in July of next year,
we really want to do something with LEGOs, like massive amounts.
We've never really been able to hook up with the people.
Well, I mean, we're talking about people who already have them
and would like to just bring them in and display them and something like that.
Because what are we going to do with them after the conference?
But if somebody would like to take part in a project like that, we have the space.
We have a lot of space.
And any other project as well, feel free to email us, oth at 2600.com.
That's coming up next July.
But yeah, continue with what you were saying.
I have lots of LEGO people for you, if you like.
But we published a book this year, too, called Forbidden LEGO,
which is a book that shows you how to build a gun
that shoots beams and a catapult, a paper airplane launcher,
and breaks the LEGO rules.
Well, that'll get you shot on the subway, won't it, by the cops?
The gun probably would, actually.
What a headline in the Post that would be,
LEGO Bandit Caught or something like that.
Yeah, well, I'm trying to do a book about building actual copies of weapons.
I've seen a pretty amazing M16 copy built out of LEGO,
which is highly detailed.
Maybe we could send that to the troops since they're lacking everything else.
It's probably as effective as the armored Humvees that they have,
except that, you know, whatever, maybe use some glue, it'll stick together.
Well, this is a topic for Weaponry.
We have a show on Tuesday nights that I'm sure would be fascinating.
LEGO Weaponry.
That's a book that I have under contract.
I like disruptive technologies.
And someone corrected me in an interview that I used,
where I made some comment about hackers.
But I think what we like is sort of disruptive titles.
We published a book a few years ago called Hacking the Xbox.
We've since published a book on hacking cable modems,
which is a pretty interesting topic to me.
And I'm only looking for stuff that's a little bit out of the mainstream,
maybe test the DMCA a little bit,
which is okay because someone has to do it.
I don't intend to be sued over it.
Nobody intends to be sued over it.
It just kind of happens one day.
Well, it hasn't happened yet,
but every time I say that I think I'll get a letter tomorrow.
Hello, Bill.
Yes.
I just wanted to point out that you have gone out on a limb on many occasions,
I think.
I just want to extend my hand and shake yours through the radio and phone lines here.
There aren't very many publishers who would go out on a limb
and publish some of the titles you publish.
We try.
I'm looking for more good ones.
You're a testament to the First Amendment and the hacker community
in getting information out there that people really need to read
to find out what's going on and how to protect themselves
and just be savvy about all these scams
and risks out there that you might not otherwise know about
unless you read a book like this computer book 4.0.
And there's other edgy titles you've published over the years
that have probably had to go to a lot of lawyers
to find out how to just skirt the liability that was a certain issue.
Or to be just smart about it.
I mean, we have another book in the works that I don't think Apple will like.
Oh.
Well, let's keep it to ourselves then because they have a long reach.
Yeah, we've been in touch with their lawyers before.
How does this have anything to do with the iPhone, I take it?
Okay, I think I did.
We'll play that later.
But anyway, we are always looking for this because it keeps life interesting,
and I believe information should be free.
If someone has something interesting to say,
we have a whole reverse engineering series planned, for example,
which I've been trying to develop.
These things cut both ways.
These tools can be used for ill and they can be used for good,
but I think information needs to be free, and it is out there.
We have a book we're about to release on hacking voice over IP, for example,
and boy, is that easy to hack.
It's like everything is sent through clear text.
It's just page after page of hacks.
Amazing.
They're doing their voice over IP phones, doing their financial stuff,
and it's completely hackable.
Totally hackable.
Incredibly easy.
So, Bill, what has inspired you over the years to take on this radical approach
of actually believing in free speech and freedom of information?
I think it's my size.
Your size?
I'm a short guy.
I've never heard that reason before.
That must be it or something.
I'm going to take everyone on.
Go ahead.
No, I mean, I don't know.
I've always been one to question authority, and, you know,
I just don't take anything as gospel.
I don't.
Maybe I grew up in New York.
I live in California.
That's it.
He grew up in New York.
All right.
I'm a Jewish guy from New York, and I don't trust anyone, basically,
so I'm going to test them all.
Now, Wally, how about you?
What's inspired you over the years to get involved in free speech issues?
I think it's because my father came from China,
and he got out of China before the communists totally took over,
and he was always, throughout my childhood,
was telling me stories about World War II
and things that would happen to him over there and things that he saw,
and it's very interesting when you learn about history
because I don't think most American children know much about Asian history,
and he would always tell me that the Flying Tigers, during World War II,
they were there really to protect the opium route for the British into Asia,
and then you read more about the opium wars
and how Britain took over Hong Kong and got that 99-year lease
and how they made millions selling drugs to China,
and the United States was part of it too,
and you go, oh, and now the United States is talking about how drugs are bad,
and so I grew up with all of these strange ideas from my father
simply because he came from another country,
and he was living in America as, even though he's an American citizen,
he was still, I think, a foreigner in his mindset,
and so he never came up with the typical, you know,
rah, rah, pledge allegiance to the American flag
and let's support the government 100%.
He was always questioning life
just because of his diverse background from another country.
So this is what happens when you grow up in a somewhat questioning household
and have a variety of different life experiences
you don't think like the mainstream,
and before you know it,
you're writing books and publishing information
that has the industry in a tizzy.
It causes all sorts of problems for everyone.
I don't think I even told Bill this,
but the FBI came to visit my house one day.
Really? I didn't know that.
Yeah, specifically because they steal this computer book,
and they weren't, you know, questioning me
or trying to hassle me or harass me,
but they wanted to know if I could help them
track down certain hackers who were involved in child pornography.
And I thought, well, I don't really do that.
I don't get on those IRC chat rooms and I talk to those people.
You wiped out all those photos.
Yeah, right.
But, you know, I could tell them what little I knew
about that particular industry,
but it was interesting.
I got to know them very well.
Uh-huh.
And they actually would need help from somebody who published a book
to be able to figure out where somebody's logging in from?
That was the horrifying part, was that they knew Windows,
and they were shocked that I had a Macintosh,
and I used Linux because that was something
that they weren't using in the FBI office.
Incredible.
And I'm thinking, oh, this is where our tax dollars are going.
Yeah, unfortunately that is the case.
So they didn't manage to recruit you in this, after all?
Well, they were trying to, and not necessarily recruit,
but they wanted my advice and help,
and I was happy to give it to them.
They were friendly.
They were nice, and they took me out to lunch.
Well, that's a worthwhile cause.
Yeah, right, the child pornography.
But like you said earlier, Wally,
anything that is used for good can also be used for bad,
and I think the investigative tools that the FBI is invoking here
for something that I guess nobody could really argue with
that can be used for other purposes as well,
and the skills that they develop can certainly be used
against even people like us for engaging in free speech.
Right, exactly.
So it's not necessarily the technology that's bad,
but it's who's applying that technology that could be good or bad.
Well, there's hacking voice over IP.
I mean, anyone that's, and the more and more people using voice over IP,
the FBI could certainly tap your phone lines quite easily
with the man-in-the-middle attacks.
It's very simple to do.
All right, I want to thank people who are calling in.
We're already over the 1,500 mark, which is very, very good,
and I appreciate people calling in and helping us keep pitching to a minimum.
The number is 212-209-2950.
We have Wally Wang's book,
the How to Steal This Computer book, 4.0, for a pledge of $75,
and you'll also get an off-the-hook T-shirt
as our thank you for calling in with that pledge.
In fact, any pledge $30 and above tonight will get you an off-the-hook T-shirt.
Again, we want to thank people, 212-209-2950.
Mike, you have some people to thank, I believe.
I have a number of people to thank.
We want to thank Bernard from Bethpage, New York,
our friend Mish.
I guess we don't need to say where he lives.
Hi, Mish. How are you?
Hi, Mish.
We have Michael from Alexandria, Virginia.
We have Steven from Fort Walton Beach, which is in Florida.
It is.
It is.
I've always wondered.
Now you know.
Wow.
If you look at this card, which I won't read on there,
you could even know the zip code.
Maybe after the show.
Yeah.
We want to thank Andrew from Jersey City,
Michael from Astoria,
Mark, who's also from Astoria,
Kathleen from West Milford, New Jersey,
who says, to Jim, get well.
We want to thank Lee from New York City,
Ryan from Baltimore,
and Valique from Broken Arrow, Oklahoma.
That's great.
You know, when we first started doing this show,
we were on a radio station, the same radio station,
late 80s, early 90s,
and it was a big audience.
It really was because we were on top of the Empire State Building,
transmitting full power,
as powerful as any other radio station in New York City,
and reaching four states, reaching four states,
and that was incredible.
We got so many people to call in and be a part of the station
and help keep the station going.
And now, you know, we're getting people also from Oklahoma
and Florida and overseas and all sorts of amazing places,
and the spirit is the same.
It's just gotten bigger.
We've reached further beyond our powerful transmitter's boundaries.
Now we're reaching throughout the world,
and also through the archives we're reaching,
I guess, throughout time.
So it's just really kind of cool to see this kind of support come in,
and I just want to thank people for that.
And again, 212-209-2950 is our phone number for pledges.
Now support of a different kind because of the very sad news
that we announced earlier in the hour concerning our colleague Jim,
who has been part of this show for many years,
who had a stroke last Tuesday, a week ago Tuesday,
and apparently had been sick for some time before then,
but without health insurance he didn't go to the hospital,
didn't get treated like he should have been treated.
And having traveled a lot this summer, almost every place I go to,
it's just you wouldn't even think twice about this.
Of course you would go get medical help because everyone seems to be entitled to that
in most parts of the world.
I guess if you haven't really experienced that,
if you haven't really talked to other people in other parts of the world,
this might seem like it's okay.
Trust me, it's not.
It's not okay to make medical coverage, to get treated by a doctor,
to make that into a commodity where the rich get treated and the poor don't.
And unfortunately Jim did not have the resources to go get the finest treatment
or any treatment.
I think personally when I had a medical issue a couple of years ago,
in fact they thought I had a mini stroke as well.
It turned out not to be, thank God, but to go through the battery of tests,
two days, just two days I was in the hospital having tests done.
And I just happened to see the bill as it whizzed by on the way to the insurance company,
which fortunately didn't put up too much of a fight.
It was $20,000, $20,000 for a couple of days.
People don't have that kind of money.
People can't possibly cover that themselves.
They need some kind of health care.
They need some kind of plan.
And the way that we live our lives now, so many of us don't.
And the people who do, as evidenced in the movie Sicko, oftentimes that's not coverage at all.
Oftentimes it's really horrible the things that insurance companies do to people.
Anyway, so the upshot of it is Jim is in the hospital now after having a stroke last Tuesday
and is in serious condition, has been since that happened.
From what I understand, Bernie, has he been able to communicate at all?
Just occasional words here and there.
Unfortunately, what seems to have happened is the stroke has affected his brain in a way that it's sort of jammed up.
The neural pathways that would tell him to say something might cause him to now flail his arms or something like that.
So he's unfortunately had to be sedated just to keep him calm.
I am confident and have faith that over time he's going to recover from this.
It's going to require a lot of therapy and a lot of reading of supportive letters that our listeners can send in to him
to sort of rewire those neural pathways in his brain to map around the damage, much like the Internet maps around damage.
Right. Well, he's got that hacker mentality that is always looking for a way.
So I know that in there someplace, when he's in this condition, that he's trying to find a way out.
He's trying to reach the people who are trying to reach him.
And it might be very, very difficult when you're in that kind of situation.
Like you said, various things become rewired and what may result in something now results in something completely different.
You can bet if he's reachable at all, he's trying his best to reach out to us as well.
So yeah, even if it's a one in a thousand chance that he's able to understand letters, we should be sending as many letters as possible.
But I think the chances are better than that.
And I also think I heard today of a miraculous story that football player who was supposed to be paralyzed for the rest of his life actually has started to walk.
So things like this do happen.
If you actually get decent care, who knows what's possible.
And certainly if you have the brain behind it, if you have somebody who is alert, who is determined and has a real zest for life, as Jim does, then the chances go up.
So the address, please send as many cards and letters as you possibly can to Jim.
Lutheran Medical Center, attention, Jim Vichens, that's spelled V-I-C-H-E-N-C-H.
Room number 4637, 150 55th Street.
And that's in Brooklyn, New York, 11220.
You can also send us email.
And you can send us email with any kind of comments or advice as far as medical treatment or anything that you think might be pursuable.
You can send that to OTH at 2600.com.
And if you want to send Jim letters through there, we'll print those out and have those forwarded to him.
And again, Bernie, we're looking for Internet access for his sister in Brooklyn.
Yes, if anyone listening knows where someone could obtain free access to an Internet-connected computer in Brooklyn.
And I just had the address in front of me a second ago.
It was Oliver Street, you said, around Oliver Street in Brooklyn.
Yes, it's Oliver Street.
And the zip code, I'm sorry, I'm just too distraught to even know where my papers are right now.
It's 112-something.
Yes.
Yeah, but people know Brooklyn and Oliver Street.
I'm sure maybe somebody running a cafe can lend a hand.
These are things that we can do.
These are things that we can help with.
And we certainly will do everything we can.
Here it is.
The zip code is 11209.
If anyone knows of an Internet cafe or a coffee shop or something or a library where Jim's sister can go, she's not a woman of means either.
And if she can get Internet access, it can help her communicate with some of the resources out there that can help her and help us, help Jim.
Okay.
And, of course, every little bit helps, as has been evidenced so many times here at this particular place.
Again, a reminder, the Personal Computer Show is coming up in about five minutes.
Not preempted, as some people might have thought it was.
Guys, I'm sorry we have to cut short the talk tonight as far as this fascinating book, Steal This Computer Book 4.0, written by Wallace Wang and published by Bill from No Starge Press.
You guys have any final words on the book, your philosophy on life or anything you'd like to say?
WBAI.
That's what I say.
One of the landmark radio stations in the world.
Very true.
Very true.
And, Wallace, this book, I guess if you had to phrase it in a couple of sentences, is there a way you could do that?
I'll phrase Steal This Computer Book in a couple of sentences.
I would say keep an open mind and be willing to accept different ideas and be willing to accept that you may be wrong.
I think you just described that radio station and 2600 and off the hook and so many things.
But, yeah, you know, this is what it's all about.
And I want to thank you guys, not just for supporting us tonight by donating the books, but just for doing what you do and standing up for freedom of speech and challenging the system.
It's what we all do here, what we have done, what we will do.
And it means a lot to see other people doing it, too.
Use Ubuntu.
All right.
Guys, have a good night.
Thanks very much for having us on.
Thanks.
Thanks to you all and Jim.
All right.
And as mentioned, we will not be here next week or the week after that.
We will be back in three weeks.
And we'll post any updates on the 2600.com website.
And hopefully we'll have good news when we come back.
All right.
Emmanuel for off the hook.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
Hey, cat.
I'm glad you're out of the hospital.
And all that.
All right.
Hey.
All righty.
Wow.
Very solemn.