New York City's first ever Dance Parade will be here Saturday, May 19, 2007.
Dance Parade promotes unity, bringing together many cultures under one parade.
Dance Parade celebrates diversity, showcasing over 37 different forms of dance.
From ballet to breakdance, tango to tap, salsa to swing, hula hoopers, flaggers, disco skaters,
and more.
Be part of the magical experience as over 5,000 dancers representing the world's many
different cultures parade down Broadway and 5th Avenue with floats, DJs, and live music.
A four-hour dance festival will follow the parade in Washington Square Park with stages,
performances, fun, and delight.
Saturday, May 19 is the day.
The parade begins at 2 p.m., festival in the park runs from 4 to 8.
To join, volunteer, or learn more, go to www.danceparade.org.
Support dance unity and expression.
Support Dance Parade New York.
And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
It's just about 7 o'clock, which means it's time once again for Off the Hook.
We couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would.
Bondedly bond for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bondedly bond.
You've got so many machines with you.
You've got so many machines with you.
I am black.
That's a nasty sound.
That's a nasty sound.
Okay, I think we got everybody's attention with this.
It's Off the Hook.
We're on the air for another hour or so.
In this, our pre-RNC show, and also our last show for the next couple of weeks.
At least, actually.
It might be a lot longer than that if the RNC doesn't go too well.
It's amazing.
You know, everybody seems to have this gloom and doom forecast.
I know people who know cops.
You know, I do.
And all the cops are telling people, don't go anywhere near the demonstration.
It's going to be really, really bad.
And if cops are saying this, that means they're being given that impression by somebody higher up.
And it just doesn't look very promising for a nice outcome.
And then you have what happened today, where the permit was denied for the rally in Central Park and the Great Lawn.
And we're going to have a situation where all these people are going to march up 7th Avenue to the garden.
And what's going to happen after that?
Anyone want to theorize, Mike?
Massive street party.
Maybe, but it's not that big a street.
It's right where people wind up.
For those of you out of town who are at our conference, right in front of our conference, that's where everybody's going to wind up.
That's where the garden is.
And that's apparently where the end of the march is.
Unless people continue to march up to the park, in which case, you have to wonder, what are they going to do then?
They could go into the park.
In fact, they're actually starting to say that now.
The protest organizers are saying there's nothing to prevent people from going inside the park anyway and protesting on their own.
If the weather's nice, it could be fun.
It could be a lot of fun.
Now, what I suspect might happen, I suspect they might try to block off an entrance to the park.
But we're here to tell you alternate ways to get into the park because they can't close the entire park.
And you have every right to be there.
What if they did close the entire park?
Well, then they'd have to do that.
They'd have to go on record as saying, yes, we closed off Central Park to prevent people from going there.
That's a good reason.
I need to close it off.
Yeah, well, let them try that.
That's a good way to spend their efforts during that week.
So, the Great Lawn, which is where the rally is not going to be, but where all kinds of people can go on their own,
it's right in the middle of the park.
Is that right?
That's a good way of putting it.
Yeah, right smack in the middle of the park.
What street would you say it's near, Jim?
Well, it's pretty much bounded by, say, 79th on the south and about 86th on the north.
If you enter on the east side, anywhere near the Metropolitan Museum of Art,
and there are entrances at about 79th Street and about 83rd, 84th, 85th, somewhere in there.
But, Jim, I have plans to be on the west side.
We'll get to that in a moment.
But, yeah, you enter there and there are pathways that lead over to the Great Lawn.
On the west side, it's just a little to the north of the Museum of Natural History.
If you get off at the 81st Street and Central Park West stop at the subway.
81st Street entrance, it looks like.
Yeah, there's a couple a little bit further north.
If you miss it by a few blocks because of the large numbers of police
and large numbers of buses parked by the police to keep you out,
you know, you can just figure out where you are in the park pretty easily.
Yeah, basically you want to be anywhere, let's see here,
anywhere between 79th Street and it looks like 84th Street on the way up.
And sort of right in the middle of the park if you look at it vertically.
Right, you'll eventually find the park drives,
the sort of mild highways that go through Central Park.
And, of course, Vaugh and Olmsted did a great job of keeping them pretty much disconnected
from walkways through the park.
But you'll be able to notice them.
You can even approach it from the south though.
59th Street and just kind of walk up and you'll eventually hit it.
Or you can even go up to the north and walk down.
I think that would probably be the one that the police neglect to guard
if they decide to guard the park.
But even if they block off the Great Lawn,
they'll have all kinds of people massing around the Great Lawn.
That's going to be really, really silly.
I don't understand the point of this at all.
Well, I put a little effort into thinking about this because, you know,
even though I'm a Republican, I'm all for people protesting.
And I had a couple of thoughts, which was,
number one, yeah, go to the park, pretend to be just, you know,
some sunbather, dog walker, frisbee thrower, rollerblader, whatever,
and then unfurl your sign.
That's fine by me.
But I thought a more creative way, you know,
Bloomberg keeps talking about how it's going to ruin the park
and plants and lawn and grass will die.
I think we should bring that home to him.
Not exactly home to him.
Why should we ruin 79th Street or wherever it is he actually lives?
But City Hall Park.
It's a small park.
It's just been redone.
And I was thinking, if every protester went into a supermarket
and bought a pound of salt, took it to City Hall Park
and just threw it on the grass, on the lawn there,
when the lawn and all the trees died,
you could say to Bloomberg, see, we ruined your park.
Is this a Republican tactic?
No, not really.
I just thought it was an interesting thing to do.
How about this? I've got a better idea.
How about every protester who comes brings a handful of grass seed?
And then they simply sprinkle the grass seed.
I hear a voice of agreement there on the telephone.
I like that.
Sounds like the voice of Bernie S. agreeing with me.
Yes, or any other kind of seeds, for that matter.
Well, let's not get out of hand here.
Yes.
What, flowers?
Flowers would be nice, I guess.
Vegetables?
Yeah, but not illegal plants.
There are illegal plants?
I mean, never heard of that.
You've never heard of illegal plants?
Breeder reactors, no?
Yeah, well, welcome to the 21st century.
So, okay, we have that situation, which is looming,
and that's happening on Sunday.
Yes, and Mike, you're pointing to the big zero on the board there.
This is a fundraising show.
I know, I know, we're going to get into the fundraising,
but let's first put our cards on the table
as to what we're going to be discussing tonight,
because we have some pretty important topics.
This is one of them.
Definitely what's going to be happening in the next week or so in this city,
it's going to be the focal point of the world,
and I've never seen such paranoia,
I've never seen such craziness in the streets.
You know, people with machine guns walking around,
and soldiers and cops everywhere you look,
and I don't know, the whole place just on edge.
So now you know what's going to happen to us
if we don't raise enough funds.
It's, the whole thing is really silly,
because the whole thing really is silly.
Folks, we're sorry.
This obviously is not happening now.
What you're hearing in the background is voices from the past,
and there's actually two of me right now.
Okay, enough.
Now there's just one of me.
I've won.
Sorry.
Bernie, you must have been very confused hearing that.
I was, especially when I heard myself.
Yeah.
See, what happened there
was that we found one of the old archive shows,
and we just decided to throw it on,
and it turned out to be the show
right before the Republican convention back in 2004.
And it sounds like it's going out loud.
I'm sorry if we caused any kind of mayhem or panic,
people thinking that there's
another Republican convention coming up.
It's not going to happen quite like that.
I was all riled up to go to the march this weekend.
Yeah, you actually left the studio.
We had to call you back,
because Mike was really getting into this.
Jim, it was frightening, wasn't it?
I thought my time machine finally worked.
Yeah, well, unfortunately it didn't.
Oh, well.
We're all still here.
But the reason we did this
was because tonight is a special fundraising edition
of Off the Hook, as was that one as well.
And what we're offering in this particular special program
is a full library of all the past shows
from 1988 through 2006.
And you, too, can be a part of the magic,
where you can pretty much call up any show,
any show of the past,
and go through the same memories
as you just went through now,
sometimes rather traumatic memories, I realize.
That was a very high-quality recording.
Is that what it's going to sound like,
if I get the library?
I think so.
Wow.
I think so.
I was listening to some other shows.
We do have other excerpts tonight.
In fact, we're on this week and next week
for this fundraiser,
and we'll be taking requests
from moments of the past
that people might want to hear,
the first time maybe something happened
or a particularly momentous event.
It's really a time capsule.
This program, since 1988,
we've been on virtually every week
in some capacity,
talking about events in technology,
in the world of hacking,
and other things as well.
There's other things as well
that have happened here,
right in front of us.
It's fascinating to listen to,
and just for the telephone sounds alone,
to hear how that has changed over the years,
that is something
you just will not find anywhere else.
Phone number 212-209-2950.
A pledge of $125 gets you every show
from 1988 to the end of 2006.
Mike, what do you estimate that is?
That's a lot of audio.
We were trying to figure out,
out in the lobby,
it's at least 500 shows,
which works out to just
a quarter dollar per show.
Wow, we're worth that, I think.
I think so.
Yeah, but think of all the time
you can spend listening to us.
Oh my goodness.
But not only that,
if you have ever called this radio program,
then you're in there too someplace.
We can't tell you exactly where,
you'll have to find yourself,
but so many people
have called over the years.
People have gone through puberty on the show.
They've called in as children,
they've grown up,
and realized that,
oh my God, look what I did.
And it's all there.
Nothing has been excised.
Nothing has been taken out.
212-209-2950.
Phone number here for the WBAI fundraiser.
Also, something else we're offering,
for a pledge of $25 or above,
you get an exclusive Off The Hook t-shirt
that you can only get
by pledging to Off The Hook.
212-209-2950.
Yeah, we said we've had
over 500 shows in the past,
but the other thing that
your contribution allows us to do
is to make more shows in the future,
which is really exciting for us.
Imagine that.
Those of you who have been
listening for a long time,
those of you who were part of
this radio station
since the early days,
or the mid to early days,
if you had not been there for us,
if you had not pledged,
imagine Off The Hook never
having gone on the air
in the first place.
Because you think we could
just waltz over to Hot 97,
or Kiss FM,
or whatever these stations
are called these days,
and ask for a show?
No, you can't even get in the door.
You can't get past a security guard.
And we can get past
our security guard,
and we can get all the way upstairs
and behind a microphone.
And before you know it,
we're spreading all this
weird stuff over the air,
information,
and taking phone calls,
and just pretty much
doing something no one else has done.
It seems simple.
It seems simple to be able
to just go in and do a radio show.
And I guess you can do it
on the Internet,
but it's not the same thing
when you have a 50,000-watt
radio station
in the middle of New York City,
and you're able to get
people from all over
just tuning in in their cars.
I mean,
that's the coolest thing
in the world,
is getting somebody
who has no real interest
in the hacker world
getting turned on to it
because they happened
to turn on the radio
at the wrong time
and get us.
Yeah.
You know,
a lot of people
are dialing the radio dial
looking for something interesting
and find us.
In fact,
I'm one of those people
who accidentally
came upon this station.
Wait a minute.
Wait, wait.
You mean you're here now
because you accidentally
tuned us in?
I'm here now
for a lot of reasons,
but that's one of them.
I mean,
basically,
we would never have met you,
Jim,
if we hadn't been doing
a radio show
and you hadn't
turned on the radio.
Exactly.
The show that I first heard
was ironically
the one before
The First Hope
where you were saying,
is anybody from the MTA listening
and knows anything
about MetroCard?
Oh my goodness.
Well,
we can try to find that moment.
I think we've played that.
Have we played that?
We've played that.
Okay.
Well,
then we can find the moment
where we played it again.
That would be fascinating.
That must have been
You know,
I was thinking of
just all the historic things
that have happened,
the fiber optic going to prison,
the whole Bernie S case,
which Bernie,
I imagine you're
so much familiar with.
A little bit.
Much of which
was live on the radio.
Live on the radio.
Well,
we can have some of that as well.
Also,
the whole Kevin Mitnick saga
that went on
for years
over these airways.
In fact,
I would say that
a good part of
the Free Kevin movement
came about as a result
of WBAI
because it helped reach
so many people.
So,
there's a lot of power
in radio.
There's a lot of things
that you can do.
A lot of people
just want to play music
and that's sad
because radio
is so much more than that.
I like to think
what we do here,
not just at this show
but at this station,
is try to reach people
from all different communities
and just get them to think,
get them to do things,
get them to go out,
meet other people
and actually make change
because we all have that power
and I think we've learned that
over the years here
on Off the Hook
and many other shows
here at the station.
So, join the three callers
on the line.
$125 gets you
every single edition
of Off the Hook
from 1988 through 2006.
How old do you think I was
when that first episode aired?
I don't know.
Were you even born then?
I want to guess.
1980?
Yeah.
No.
Two.
I was two.
You were two.
I was two years old.
Did you call us?
I don't think I called.
Okay.
Well,
if anybody called us
and was a child,
let us know.
We'd like to find that
and play that.
We have had people
who have come on the show
and actually have pointed to
when they called up
as a seven-year-old
or something.
I don't know.
We get all kinds
of interesting calls.
Emanuel?
Yes, Bernie?
I have a theory
that perhaps
in Joe's early years
in his household,
the show was playing there
and it had such a strong
influence on him
that that greatly affected
how he turned out
and maybe that's having
the same effect
on children as we speak
and on adults
who were exposed
to this material
at an early age.
So, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Early age.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it definitely
does have an effect
and not always a bad one,
sometimes a good one.
It does happen.
I wasn't implying
there'd be a bad effect.
Well, you know,
we can't deny that sometimes
people turn out
the wrong way
because we push them
in a particular direction
and made them think
about the wrong thing
at the wrong time.
It's the danger of radio.
Thinking.
212-209-2950.
That's our pledge line.
We're here asking for funds.
You notice,
you notice that
we do not have commercials.
Never have had
a single commercial
on this radio station,
during every single show
since this station
went on the air
I think in 1960.
That's a heck
of a long time
to go without a commercial.
And don't think
that we couldn't sell
this license
and make a fortune
and have a nice
commercial station
playing some other
variant of dance music.
But we believe
that radio is something
that should be cherished,
should be prized,
should be defended,
and that's all
part of the process.
If you're listening
to us somewhere overseas,
if you're listening
to us in California,
if you're listening
to us in New York,
if you're listening
to us in Brooklyn,
in New York City,
anywhere,
it means something to you
or you wouldn't
be listening.
212-209-2950.
We're offering
the DVD archive,
and by DVD archive
I mean it comes
on a DVD,
plays on any computer,
plays on many DVD players
in fact.
It can play audio
on that.
And are there CD players
now that play
DVD audio as well?
Have they finally
put those out?
I don't think so,
but you could easily
copy the files to a CD
if that's what you wanted.
That's right.
Yeah, they're not
copy protected.
You can copy them
to your server.
What lots of people do,
they listen to our show,
they download our show
and they copy it
to their iPod
and they go jogging
the next day
and hear us.
Go jogging the same day.
Are you jogging right now
listening to us?
You probably think
that because you're jogging,
oh, look at the sun.
Isn't that something?
Look at the sun coming up.
Just pause for a moment
and think about the sun rising
as you're jogging
in the morning
before you have
to go to work.
Don't you hate your job?
Don't you just hate
what's going to happen today?
Well, okay,
here's a way
you can feel better, jogger.
I know you missed the show.
I know it's the next day.
Maybe it's even two days away
and you feel like a real loser
because you didn't call us live.
You have one more chance.
You can call
next Wednesday night
between 7 and 8,
212-209-2950.
Why not make a note of it?
Why not write it down?
Why not tell all your friends?
And that way,
next week when we do this again,
we'll have a really good response.
It's really the last chance, too,
because we're not on after that.
But we're on right now
for those of you
who might be jogging live
or who might be
watching this live
and you want to make
a note of it.
You want to make a note
because you might just be
sitting at home
vegetating live.
Did you know
that they have a device?
It's called
the Transistor Radio
and you can take it with you
and jog
and listen to us live.
No.
It's really something.
212-209-2950.
We have two calls on the line.
This is something
that is unique about our show
that is unique
to the world of radio
that the podcast experience
can't provide.
You can't go jogging
with a live podcast.
Does President Eisenhower
know about these transistors?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
212-209-2950.
We have two calls on the line.
We're going to
go to another clip
in just a couple of minutes
but I want to see
a couple more calls
come in.
Can we get two more
phone calls coming in,
two more phone calls?
Is that so much to ask?
212-209-2950
is the phone number.
A $25 pledge
will get you
an off-the-hook t-shirt
which is a cool thing
to have.
If you already have one
because I know
a lot of people
are repeat pledgers
then you can simply
give it to somebody
or save it,
so you have
a second chance
So you have a second copy of the same shirt
because what if the laundry machine breaks or something
and you want to wear that shirt again,
except you can't wash it because it's filthy.
And, but you know, it could happen.
So it's good to have, it's good to have a backup.
That's what I've learned over the years
that backups are important.
All right, one call is coming in.
Let's get another call, 212-209-2950.
And for a pledge of 125,
you'll get a copy of every single edition
of Off the Hook from 1988 to 2006.
Not just Off the Hook too,
any show that led to the development of Off the Hook.
We had different shows back then in the early nineties
as well.
They're all included in this package.
And it's really quite a deal.
It would have been unfathomable for us to offer this
a couple of years ago
because we would have had to have done it on CDs
and there would have been just so many of them.
So now we can do it.
Every year has its own DVD
and you can just put that into your computer
or a DVD player and listen the way.
So you get a DVD ROM full of MP3 files.
So you can do anything you want with them.
And they're not the kind of MP3 files
that you download from the website.
These ones are high quality, high fidelity.
And they sound just like, well, as we just demonstrated,
they sound the way it sounded going over the FM radio waves.
Now I should point out though,
some of the earlier shows,
some of the really early shows were taken off cassette.
And what that means is that you're listening to the cassette
so it might sound a little like a cassette back then,
but I mean, it's pretty much FM quality.
But the audio files out there,
you might notice a slight cassette hiss.
There's also gonna be that spot where we flip the tape.
If you listen to the old shows,
there's a little like maybe five second gap
around 45 minutes in or 30 minutes in,
depending on if we got a C90 or a C60.
And we had to flip the tape when we were doing a show.
Now we record it onto CDs.
So there's no flipping involved.
But we have 120 minute tapes.
We have 120 minute tapes now.
Yes, thankfully the scientists developed that.
Yes, Bernie.
Which years were the 8-track tape versions
where you hear the ker-chunk as it switches track?
Yeah, you know, we sort of skipped those years.
Fortunately, we had nothing to do with that.
212, 209, 295, I see four calls on the line.
So I guess that's good.
I guess it means that people wanna hear more
and we're gonna play more.
We're gonna go to another clip.
This one, we're going back quite a ways.
We're going back to 1993.
Where were you guys in 1993?
I don't think you were even here, Jim.
I wasn't with you.
Wow, so nobody here.
Except you.
Redbird, you weren't around.
I was around.
I don't know what I was doing.
You weren't doing much, I'll tell you that.
Probably not too much.
Mike, where were you?
Middle school.
Middle school, not doing anything.
And NotKevin, where were you back then?
I don't even know.
Bernie, how about you?
Were you involved?
I think I was still working for 9x then.
And occasionally, I was a guest on the show on the phone.
Okay, so Bernie, actually, you've been around the longest
out of the people here, not counting me.
That might be true.
Okay, but you're not gonna be on this show, though,
because this show features FiberOptic,
who used to be on quite a bit in the early 90s,
early to mid 90s.
And this was before he was sent away to prison for a year.
And that whole saga was captured on the show as well.
In this particular clip, though,
this is from June 30th, 1993.
We're just basically talking about telephones.
And we're also experimenting with telephones
live on the air.
And it's something that,
it's kind of the magic of Off The Hook.
We just sort of play with phones now and then,
live on the air,
and all sorts of unexpected things invariably happen.
And you never quite know where it's gonna go.
In this particular case,
we just happened to find an oddity with New York Telephone.
Remember, the phone companies were different then.
They were, well, there weren't quite as few of them.
There were a lot more.
There was New York Telephone.
There was New Jersey Bell.
There was Bell of Pennsylvania.
Was that your phone company, Bernie?
It was Bell of Pennsylvania back then, yes.
Wow, okay.
Or Bell Atlantic.
So, I'm queuing this up now.
And what you're gonna hear is Fiber and myself,
basically, talking about phones a little bit,
reaching out, dialing some numbers,
having some unexpectedly weird things happen.
Our phone number, 212-209-2950.
Please call us while this is playing.
We'll be back in just a few minutes.
Do you know that's the sound of four different calls
to information going through at the same time?
Actually, not going through.
Used to be, when you called information,
they'd pick up right away.
But those days are over.
And with that sad fact,
we begin tonight's show of Off the Hook.
This is Emanuel Goldstein,
together with Viber,
and I'm joined by my good friend,
the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
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and the host of the show,
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and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
and the host of the show,
They just hang up.
They just hang up.
They just hang up.
And you have to call back,
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Okay, I think we...
Were we?
That sounded like a click to me.
No?
No?
You know, this is taking longer than I thought.
I hope it's...
I hope it's not...
You know,
So if we call from the radio station
So if we call from the radio station
to the radio station,
it never disconnects,
because that will make us
look pretty foolish.
It's definitely disconnecting
for most people.
Yeah.
But keep talking.
Okay.
Yeah, as I was saying
about call waiting,
if you're a subscriber
to call waiting,
and you dial star 70,
if you simply get back
a stuttering dial tone,
that is,
that is,
that is,
do, do, do, do,
that is,
do, do, do, do,
like that,
then you'd be on a 5 ESS.
If you got two
higher pitched beeps,
followed by a slight
bit of silence,
and then a dial tone,
then you'd be on a DMS-100.
Do you want to demonstrate
those beeps for us?
Do you want to demonstrate
those beeps for us?
You mean using my mouth?
Yes.
Okay, they sound
approximately like,
beep, beep,
boop,
like that.
Okay.
With the boop being
the dial tone.
Right.
Following the two beeps.
And that remains to be...
There's a way in Ohio
that actually spell out
the dial tone
in case people
are confused by that.
They say,
you know,
I don't know exactly
how they spell it.
I think it's with a D.
You know,
do, do, do,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
If you hear that sound
on your phone,
that means it's a dial tone.
All right.
So, you know,
some of those
primitive exchanges out there.
Yeah.
I'm wondering if this
is going to hang up
now at all.
Hmm.
Because I see people
that are being disconnected
after we called in.
Hmm.
Well, it seems kind of odd
that every so often
it seems to cut the ring off.
Well, that's, no,
that's us talking over it.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, it's...
Oh, there we go.
That was a definite click there.
Yeah.
Okay.
And we should see the light
go out in a second.
That's weird.
Oh, there it goes.
It's fading away.
The light is fading away
and it's gone now.
We have been disconnected.
That's how long it takes.
That's a bit longer
than I thought,
but still, you know,
when you have ten lines
that are ringing,
you know, there's no hope.
There's no hope.
We won't get to you
before you're disconnected.
There's just no way.
Anyway, okay,
so you're on a switch.
There are certain ways
to tell what kind of switch it is
if you get a dial tone
on that switch,
but you're saying
there's a way to tell
just by calling in.
By calling, you mean
as if you were dialing
someone else.
Right.
And you wanted to tell
what they were on.
Exactly.
Yeah.
There's a couple of simple ways
I found out with that as well.
And, um...
Well, tell me,
do you want to...
Can you tell from a busy signal?
Can you tell
from a ring?
Yeah, I found that
it's easier to tell
from a busy signal.
I don't know if we'll be able
to tell on the air,
but from dialing around
in the city,
I found that
if you get connected
to a busy signal
on a 5ESS,
there's a very faint hum
in the background,
whereas on a DMS-100,
it's completely silent.
Okay.
Do you mind being put
on the spot right now?
Because I do have
a DMS busy signal
and I do have
a number 5ESS busy signal
and I'd like to try them,
try them both.
Okay.
I'll see how well
I can hear it over the air.
Okay.
Okay, let's give this a try.
I won't tell anybody
which one I'm calling first
and in fact,
I won't even...
Well, yeah,
you won't know this exchange,
so I think I can do this.
Bear with me one moment.
Okay.
Okay, there's our dial tone.
We're just going to
call up a number.
Here we go.
Okay.
Okay, okay, I was wrong.
That's not a busy signal.
Let's try something else.
I was way too much
noise on there
for me to tell.
All right,
let's try that
one more time.
Too much noise.
Too much noise?
Yeah, there's way
too much static over it.
There is an awful
lot of static.
Yeah.
Well, when you
try another number
and see if that
fares any better.
Any better?
No.
Okay, but those are
two different switches.
That much I can tell you.
Do you think
if we call something
more local,
you might be able to tell?
Well, I hear the static
just in the room.
Yeah, yeah,
I think the static
is inherited
in our system here.
Nice, yeah.
But what would you
be listening for then?
Okay, if it was
a 5ESS and you were
to call the
permanent busy number,
the test number,
prefix plus 9970,
which works
in most places,
or just a busy number.
On a 5ESS,
if you listen closely,
you will hear
a very low hum
behind the busy signal.
It's the faintest hum,
but it is there,
and if you know
what you're listening for,
you'll hear it.
And if you do that
and compare it with
that of a 5ESS's
busy signal,
you'll hear
complete silence
in between the busies
on the DMS.
You won't hear anything
at all.
Let's try our local
number, 279,
which we know is a
number 5ESS.
Oh, that's the only exception.
What do you mean
that's the only exception?
I found that
when I was at home
and I called in my office,
you couldn't hear the hum.
Really?
Well, you know what?
It's not going to go through.
The number you have reached,
279-9970,
please call
at this number.
279-9970,
please call
at this number.
279-9970,
please try
your call
again later.
What?
She didn't give a reason.
She didn't give a reason.
279-9970,
please try
your call
again later.
That's great.
Okay, we're going
to have a little fun here.
We're going to have
a little fun here.
Hold on.
Let's get one
of our trusty
operators online.
Do you think
that's a one-time thing?
Do you think
that will happen again?
That's kind of strange.
I don't know.
I've never heard
something like that before.
No reason.
Uh-oh.
We're sorry.
Your call
cannot be completed
as dialed.
Oh, you're supposed
to dial 0212.
Is that right?
Are you?
Yeah, I think
you're supposed
to do that.
I'm sorry.
You're supposed
to dial 0212.
Is that right?
Are you?
Yeah, I think
you're supposed
to dial 0212.
Yeah, I think
you're supposed
to do that.
Let me just
make sure that
happens again
before I get an
operator involved
in this.
The number
you have reached
279-9970.
Please try
your call
again later.
I've never
heard anything
like that before.
That's
disgusting to show
what you can find
just by dialing
out at random.
I mean, we
had no idea
this was here.
Okay, we're
going to call
the operator.
I think when
you're getting
operator assistance
into New York
City, you have
to dial 0 plus
212.
I don't know
why.
It's just the way
it is.
New York
telephone.
Dial 0 for
the operator.
From a push
button telephone,
press 11 for
collect call.
I dialed 0
already.
Charge
this number
to your
operator.
Okay, I'm
going to
dial 0.
I dialed 0
already.
Charge this
call to another
number.
I'll try it
again.
Please hold
for operator
assistance.
Mr. G, may I
help you?
Yes, hi, I'm
having some
difficulty getting
through this
number.
I'm getting a
recording I don't
understand.
All right, hold
on, please.
Thank you.
The number
you have reached
is not
available at
this time.
The number
you have reached
2799970.
Please try
your call again
later.
Oh.
Yeah, that's a new
one, isn't it?
Gee.
See, they want
to do away with
us, right?
You want all
these tape
recorders to do
these things for
you.
Wait, let me
try that again
because it
left something
out.
Yeah, they
sure did.
Ooh.
The number
you have
reached is
The number you have reached, 2-7-9-9-9-7-0.
Please try your call again later.
Wait a minute.
There's something missing.
Yeah, I don't know why, I hear voices in the background.
Right, but I, hold on a second, turn my mic up a little bit.
The number you have reached, 2-7-9-9-9-7-0.
Please try your call again later.
It's just a tape saying, please try your call again later.
Yeah.
It may be checked for trouble.
If you want, I can connect you to repair.
Maybe they can check the number for you.
You know, somehow I don't think they'll help.
It's my experience with them in the past.
I don't think they'll do that.
But is there a way to report this?
That's repair.
Oh, really?
Okay, well, connect me to repair then.
I'll try it.
No problem.
Thanks a lot.
Phone ringing.
Yeah, telephone repair.
Good evening.
Yes, hi.
I'm trying to report a number that, well, it's giving a recording.
And it's not telling you why it's giving you the recording.
It's saying the number you have reached.
And it's not saying why it won't connect you.
Okay, what is the area code and telephone number?
It's area code 2-1-2, 2-7-9-9-9-7-0.
Thank you. Just a moment.
It's a very unusual problem.
2-7-9-9-9-7-0?
That's right.
I'm not sure on that number. It's disconnected.
It's coming up as disconnected?
Well, it's not saying that when you call it.
When you call it, it just says the number you have reached.
And it stops.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, it's a disconnected number.
Well, I think the machine that says it's disconnected might be disconnected.
It may be.
Yeah.
So, I just figured I'd let you know.
Yeah, okay, fine. Thanks.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Okay.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Always help the phone company out whenever you can, you know.
If you notice that something's unplugged or unlocked or whatever, just tell them.
And then they'll fix it.
Oh, yes.
A blast from the past there.
That was an extended excerpt from a show back in 1993, June 30, 1993,
where FiberOptic and myself just tried to figure out the mystery of a number.
We didn't intend to do that.
It just sort of happened live on the air.
I think you spoke to more phone company employees in that one call than exist today.
And you notice how one of the operators is saying, you know,
they want to get rid of us and replace us with machines.
And look what the machines are doing.
It's incredible.
So, this is part of what we're offering here on the special fundraising edition.
You'll get that.
You'll get so many more interactions with phone company operators
and weird phone numbers that we've done over the years here on Off The Hook.
All for a call to 212-209-2950 and a pledge of $125.
We've done every show from 1988 to the end of 2006.
Was it over 500 shows, Mike?
I think so.
Wow.
Unbelievable.
Any comments?
So, RedHack, you've come in to join us on this.
I've appeared.
Wow.
That was really interesting.
I mean, it's such like New York Telephone stuff.
Yeah.
I mean, they don't even call it New York Telephone.
They don't call it 9X anymore.
They've been through so many incarnations.
It's just things have changed.
Subtle things have changed.
Major things have changed.
And you can hear it all.
You can hear how the world has changed.
One thing interesting to point out is the operator now will never be that friendly.
Really?
They just don't like the customer anymore, huh?
Not only do they not like the customer, they'll sue you over things like that.
I see.
Well, yeah, it's not the same world.
Definitely not.
So if you want to hear what it used to be like.
And that really was similar to what things were like now as far as I'm concerned.
You go back a little further, a couple of years before that, and you'll hear mechanical switches and all sorts of other weird sounds that you never hear these days.
So, yeah, it's pretty incredible.
202-209-2950 is our phone number.
And we're offering for a pledge of $25 the off-the-hook t-shirt which will tell people that you are a listener to off-the-hook.
And I guess mark you in their eyes as somebody worth paying attention to or at least keeping an eye on.
That's a pledge of $125.
You'll get every single show that we've done from 1988 to 2006 with all sorts of weirdness involved and different people coming and going.
That's a pledge of $125, 202-209-2950.
We take Visa, MasterCard, American Express, all that business.
And I'm kind of floored.
I'm speechless after having heard myself going through all that again.
It was almost traumatic for me.
These shows on the DVDs, they offer so much.
Not only do they offer an insight into what the past was like at a various point in time.
If you follow them closely, you have an insight into the history and the sociology of a different world, the world of hacking.
And if you're really, really astute and pay close attention, you can pick up a lot about hacking, the technical aspects.
Absolutely.
They're a valuable resource to a lot of...
And you'll hear all sorts of different perspectives from people who have never heard of the hacker world before.
And, of course, you'll see all the different news events that have happened over the years.
Not just involving hacking, but involving freedom of speech and curtailing of our rights and the Patriot Act.
And all sorts of world events that really have been very significant.
Things from the falling of the Berlin Wall to 9-11 to all sorts of things that just happened right here in front of us here in New York City.
We were witnesses to it all.
And you can hear it.
You can relive that.
Get a little time capsule of your own and copy it to your computer and spread it around.
Do whatever you wish with it.
212-209-2950.
We have one final clip that I'd like to play after we get a couple of calls.
Do you guys know what it is?
It's a pretty significant event.
I don't know.
Do you want to guess?
Bernie, maybe you...
There's so many.
Yeah, well, that's why you've got to guess.
Bernie, you there?
Gee, are you asking me for a particular reason?
Well, I'm asking you to guess what this momentous event might be that we have.
It's one call on the line.
212-209-2950.
I think one of the most momentous events is when you managed to get yourself to WBAI after 9-11, but it had been shut down.
Yeah, we weren't on the air because the station was off the air.
But the first show that aired after the abyss had opened mere blocks away was a show worth hearing again.
It was a show worth hearing again.
Yeah, well, that's wrong.
That's not what I have.
Oh.
Sorry.
But that'll be on there, too, if you did want to hear it.
Yeah, I mean, it's all there.
And it also comes with a guide.
You don't have to just sort of throw the shows in without knowing what's where.
There's a whole summary of every single show.
It's very easy to search and find what you're looking for.
212-209-2950.
Join the one caller on the line.
Pledge of 125 will get you a full DVD set of every single show from 1988 to 2006.
DVD audio, so it'll play in your computer, play on your DVD player, and any other audio device that can read DVDs.
Okay.
I'll try to guess as to what the clip you're going for is.
When Bernie got released is my guess.
That's a good one.
That's a good guess, Jim.
Very good.
But no, it's wrong.
It's wrong.
Okay.
One more call, and we're going to go to it.
One more call.
So it all takes us one person out there calling 212-209-2950, pledging whatever you can afford, anything you can afford.
And is that a call?
Okay.
No, there it is.
All right.
We're going to hold to our promise.
More people can still call.
More people can still call.
We're not saying you shouldn't call now that someone has called in.
Are we saying that?
No.
I don't mean to imply that.
We'd like everybody to call, all the people listening.
Furthermore, we promise to answer the phone well before you get disconnected for ringing too long.
Which actually will last a lot shorter than it did then.
Back then, that was something new, that the phone would actually disconnect when you called somebody and they didn't pick up right away.
That was unheard of.
Now it's the norm, and it's kind of sad to see that change.
212-209-2950, you were down in the tally room.
There was a bunch of people there, right?
There were people there.
Okay.
And there's nothing more depressing for the tally folks than to not get any calls.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Don't put them through that kind of trauma.
All right.
212-209-2950, please call while we're playing this last clip.
Okay.
Folks listening to the show, you're probably very familiar with various callers.
Can you name a caller that may be?
Oh, no.
Okay.
Redbird, you seem to know.
What name do you have in your head?
Rebel.
Okay.
Well, yes, you've gotten it right.
We have here the very first phone call to Off The Hook from Rebel.
Do you want to guess what year that was?
See, these are the kind of games you can play if you have this set.
212-209-2950.
It took me 15 minutes to put this together.
1996.
1996.
That's a good guess.
It's wrong, but it's a good guess.
Not Kevin.
92.
How did you know that?
Did you look at my piece of paper?
No.
Okay.
Well, you're right.
It's June 24th, 1992.
And he didn't stop calling until I was on the show and he was still calling.
Just listen to the way I listened to what he had to say.
You'll never hear any of this again.
That's true.
That's true.
Okay.
Here's the first phone call to Off The Hook from Rebel, who continues to call us every
single week.
And he's probably calling on this line right now, which we're not picking up.
You can call us, though, and pledge 212-209-2950.
Get a full library of all the Off The Hooks and enjoy.
Good evening.
Hi.
Am I in the air?
Yes, you are.
How you doing?
What's on your mind?
Yes.
I'd like to talk about the, what was it, the technology of, oh, yes, you were dialing international
directorates.
Right.
When you dial, I don't know if you know this, but when you dial that 800 number.
Which 800 number is this?
The call ATT number?
Right.
Okay.
They make it on purpose so that you cannot place any directly dialed calls.
In other words, you have to, when you use that number, you can only place a call if
it's correct or going to a third number or a calling card.
Right.
What that is meant for, that number is sort of a substitute for zero plus.
If you're at, say, one of those weird pay phones where you dial zero plus and you get
a strange company that will gladly take your AT&T calling card, you can bypass that since
no pay phone in its right mind will not allow you to call an 800 number.
Then it'll get billed by AT&T.
That's the whole purpose of that number.
When you mentioned the thing when you were calling and you got those tones, those da-da-da-da-da-da
tones, you said that was familiar?
Yeah.
I recognize them too because that's the old analog dialing method.
Well, actually, in retrospect now, I realize that's cable and wireless since we got connected
to them.
They probably use the old system that New York Telephone and AT&T used to use.
Well, actually, you know what I think they do?
I think they play the same tones every time you make a phone call.
I have a tape of 10 years ago when I made an overseas call.
If you want me to play it, I have it ready.
Sure.
You want me to play it?
As long as you don't give away any vital information that somebody might not want you to give away,
yeah, go ahead.
Hold on and I'll play it right now.
Okay.
Hold on and let me see.
Phones from the past.
Always playing little beeps and buzzes here.
Julian, the operator.
Good morning.
Yes, I'd like to call France Collect.
Thank you.
Country code, city code, and number.
3-3 is the country code, 1 is the city code, and the number is 7-4-9-3-9.
We don't need the number given out, okay.
Thank you.
What is your name, please?
Mrs. Succolo.
Thank you.
Now, you hear that?
Yeah, those are MF tones.
You see, that was the old AT&T system.
Uh-huh.
You see.
Well, now, you will still hear those tones on occasion in various places.
You do not use AT&T, you will.
But if you use AT&T, you will never hear those tones.
On New York Telephone, they do not use, I don't know if you know what a DMS-10 is.
A DMS-10, a Northern Telecom DMS-10?
And an AT&T 5E-FS.
Right.
I think you might mean a DMS-100, though.
Well, isn't that a toll switch?
That's a DMS-200.
Oh, okay.
Well, right now, New York Telephone, I think the only, well, they use DMS-10s, 5E-FS, and 1E-FS, which is the old one.
Right.
I think, I don't know what that is, and I've always wanted to know what it was that I was doing.
Is that the operative circuits dialing as if it was a touch-tone phone?
Well, those are MF tones.
In fact, that's what an old blue box would use.
And MF tones are still used in various ways for various things.
It's just not as simple to box a call anymore, at least not within this country.
But it's still very possible to do it in various ways.
Tones are used, different tones are used.
It just requires a bit more thought.
But those MF tones that you hear are the blue box tones as far as everyone else is concerned.
I see.
Yeah.
Bit of history there.
If you've ever noticed that the new digital switching, it does not click.
Your phone number has the old electronic 1E-FS switch, which is not digital, which is an analog.
It's electronic, but it's not digital.
Right.
It's electronic.
And the new 5E-FS and DMS-10s are all digital.
But there's a difference between a 5E-FS and a DMS-10, and you can tell.
Because the 5E-FS sometimes...
Okay.
Well, we're talking about differences in switches again.
And Rebel there with his first phone call back in 1992.
I hate to step on this.
I hate to interrupt this historic moment, but we do need to get some more phone calls.
It's very important.
We're up to about 700 there.
There's a big glare on the phone.
Yeah, it's really hard to see what the total number is.
But I know we have to break 1,000 at least.
So that means a few more phone calls are necessary to do that.
Now, I know there are people who appreciate the radio program.
They listen week after week.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a full library of all those shows?
Or wouldn't it be nice to give this as a present to somebody who might never hear it otherwise?
Yeah, it's a great way to help us and get something really nice in return.
Remember, the most important thing is that you're investing in the radio station
because this place defies the odds.
We should not be here.
Lots of people believe we should not be here.
But we're in the middle of the commercial ban.
What that means is that this station could very easily become something commercial next week
if the owners decided to sell it.
And it would be a very, very sad thing if that were to happen
because we're able to reach so many people from this particular position in the FM dial in New York City.
It's so incredibly rare and precious.
It's just hard to put into words.
So that's why the fact that we're able to survive solely on listener contributions
is an amazing, an amazing accomplishment,
something that continues to flabbergast me over the years that this place could even exist.
We're not talking about a small 2,000-watt college radio station.
We're talking about a big, huge 50,000-watt Enterprise Empire State Building.
You know, it should not be, but it is, and it's thanks to you that it is.
212-209-2950.
You won't hear any commercials here because you're our sponsors,
but we need for you to call and show your support.
And we're making it as pleasant as possible by offering T-shirts,
off-the-hook T-shirts for $25.
We're offering full archives of all the off-the-hook shows in broadcast quality for $125.
There are other pledge levels as well.
Two phone calls on the line.
Please, let's get around four or five, and we can break that $1,000 mark.
And then, then, sounds like this will be speeding towards your door,
and you'll be able to hear the sounds of hackers over the years, over the decades even,
as they discover, share information, go through all kinds of adventures.
And you may even hear your own voice or somebody you know as they call into this radio show.
It's incredible.
212-209-2950.
Two calls on the line.
Let's see if we can make that three or four.
There's people down there, right, Mike?
There's enough people?
Oh, yeah.
Okay, so they're waiting for those phone calls to start coming in.
212-209-2950.
And I don't think it'll happen today, but people can prove me wrong.
It's really exciting for us, actually, when there aren't enough people in the telly room
and people have to sort of go running out of the studio to go help them.
Yeah, that happens sometimes.
And then you get to talk to one of us.
That's right.
That can happen.
So, yeah, if a lot of people were to call right now, one of us would have to go running outside and down the hall.
It's a long ways, too, but we usually make it by the time the phone is still ringing.
If someone picks up the phone out of breath, you'll know that's why.
212-209-2950 is the number.
So if another four or five calls come in, we're definitely going to have to do that.
Do we have people to thank?
I don't.
Oh, I thought that's what the whole transaction was about.
No, no, no.
There was a clarification.
Ah, okay, a clarification.
People want to understand that the shows you're getting, they're MP3 files on DVDs that you can put in your computer.
That's right.
It doesn't work in most CD players, but they're still playing.
Because they're not CDs.
It won't work on phonographs either.
That's just the way it is.
Many ways it won't work, but also many ways it will work.
And you can explore those ways if you pledge $125 by calling 212-209-2950.
You'll even hear, speaking of DVDs, you'll hear a call that we made to a Radio Shack.
I think it was a Radio Shack.
It might have been a Blockbuster, asking if they had any DVDs, and they had no idea what a DVD was.
This was, of course, before DVDs became common, but we knew.
We knew that DVDs were coming, and we decided to have a little fun with them.
We had all kinds of fun with all kinds of unsuspecting people over the years,
and it's just so nice that we preserved it all and that you can listen to it now.
212-209-2950.
Get your own archived copy of every single show from 1988 to 2006, or an off-the-hook T-shirt.
In fact, you'll get the off-the-hook T-shirt with the DVDs if you pledge $125, or any amount over $25.
It's so interesting that a store, I don't know when that phone call was made,
but that a store wouldn't know about some upcoming video technology,
because now with the Blu-ray and HD DVD, people knew about those long before they were actually,
because of the whole, like, battle.
Yeah, but those people are not working in Radio Shack, you know?
All right, well, I knew about it. Okay, fine.
And you weren't working in Radio Shack.
Let's listen to the last minute of the first phone call from Rebel,
the first of many phone calls from Rebel.
You really let him go on for a long time.
Because I thought it was interesting.
And I even say a comment to that effect after he hangs up,
and, you know, he does say interesting things now and then.
It's just that he says a lot of other things, too.
All right, 212-209-2950. Five calls on the line.
Let's listen to the last few seconds of this. Let's get some phone calls coming in.
Restaurants, and there's really no protection for them.
It wouldn't be fair to them to get, like, billed back in case someone...
Well, it just makes sense. If you're billing something to a third number,
they should ask somebody's permission before you do it.
Right, because, you know, I've dialed and billed to a third number,
and I was wondering, I got my bill and said, I was wondering where the call was.
And then, you know, it must have been a wrong number.
Right, well, you never have to pay for anything like that,
so if people do get those kind of charges, they can always get them removed.
Listen, sir, we have to move on to some more calls.
Okay, then.
Thanks very much for calling.
Thank you.
Most interesting comments there. Our telephone number is 212-279-...
Yeah, you see, I said they're interesting. I called him, sir. I called him, sir.
So, I guess, you know, I encouraged him to call back, and he did, many, many times.
But, listen, look at those phones. Those phones are lighting up.
That's something. We've got seven calls on the line.
Should we be running down? Do you think, is there some kind of signal they'll send us?
If more calls come in, I think we're going to have to.
I think we're going to have to send people down there.
It could happen.
212-209-2950.
Once again, before we leave tonight, we are offering the full off-the-hook library from 1988,
and that was a good show, too, back in October of 1988,
all the way to the end of last year, the end of 2006.
And you'll hear every single program in full broadcast quality sound.
And, boy, the history you'll get is just, I can't even put it into words.
Could make a pledge of any amount just to support the radio station.
We'd certainly appreciate that.
You know, 212-209-2950 is the number.
There's only a few more times that we can say that in this limited time that we have here.
That's right. 212-209-2950.
Give us a call, even as the phone rings, way off in the distance someplace,
and we'll see you next week.
Have a good night.
All this feed I dropped
The invitations on the wall
Sitting down and switching off
The wooden box, the door is locked
Switching off the load-on signs
The party's over for the night
It must be wonderful to live like you do
To have respect on everyone that you know
To have surprises waiting outside your door
When you don't want to answer your telephone
The telephone starts to ring, it rings
The five-piece doorbell starts to chime
The liquid clap bursts into song
It's out of tune, the timing's wrong
It must be wonderful to live like you do
To have respect on everyone that you know
To have surprises waiting outside your door
When you don't want to answer your telephone
It must be wonderful to live like you do
To have respect on everyone that you know
To have surprises waiting outside your door
When you don't want to answer your telephone
Lying down and sucking in
The bubble bath, the door is locked
Switching off the load-on signs
The party's over for the night
It must be wonderful to live like you do
To have respect on everyone that you know
To have surprises waiting outside your door
Yes, you're listening to the end result of Off The Hook here.