I'll have to look for it when I'm at Dayton, two parking spots away from where we were.
Another vendor had this.
GPS unit.
A little GPS unit and I didn't realize, it grew on me.
We set it up in the dash of the car and it was just so much fun to be able to see a graphic
of the compass.
It would tell you the track in ticks, the actual speed that the van was traveling.
If the needle said 75, this might say 76.2.
The amount of miles that we had actually traveled.
The altitude that we had reached.
We were going through the mountains and we got a particular charge out of reaching 2,600
feet.
Wow.
The actual longitude and latitude position and the time, all plugged into this one little
thing.
We were ticking the waypoints and it was a lot of fun.
I'm still having fun playing with that.
If you were at the Dayton Hamvention, we're asking you to call us now.
I'm sure there are people out there who are, or maybe you're in Dayton, you're in Ohio
somewhere.
Please call us.
212-209-2950.
Show us that off the hook means something to you.
Emanuel, I ran into something along the same lines, but it was kind of scary.
A company called Davis Instruments has developed a chip for your automobile.
And if your car was made after 1996 or later, it uses something called an ODB2 bus, a data
bus in the car for the different digital systems to talk to each other.
You can buy this chip, but it doesn't cost very much, and plug it into the data port
on your car, which is under the dash.
It's what the mechanic plugs into to do diagnostic information.
Look at this.
Four calls.
Maybe everybody's in Dayton tonight.
212-209-2950.
Please keep it coming in.
Great.
Anyway, you can get this chip and plug it in your car.
And then if someone uses your car, like suppose you have teenage kids or you have employees
that use this car, you plug this chip in and it will log 300 hours of usage.
If you stop the car, it stops logging.
Anyway, after you've logged as much as you want, you can pull this chip out, plug it
into your PC, see exactly how fast this person drove, what time they drove, how fast they
broke, applied the brakes in the car, all kinds of things you'd want to find out about
a person's driving habits.
And the scary thing is this company told me they're in negotiations with all the major
car rental companies to install these in rent-a-cars.
So you may remember the story that we talked about on the air last year where a gentleman
was contesting in court a fine they received from their car rental company for hundreds
of dollars because he exceeded the speed limit on a trip during where he rented a car.
Well, that was done with GPS technology.
But this is even scarier because every time you exceed your...it wouldn't matter if you
ride a GPS range or your GPS antenna wasn't working.
In the near future, any rental car you get is likely to log how fast you drive during
your entire trip.
And if you look at the rental contract, it will probably say you won't go over 65 miles
an hour or whatever.
So Jeff and I were discussing ways of maybe disabling this chip that's in the car.
It just plugs under the dash.
And it's something to look out for.
It's one of the many things about technology that's double-edged.
And we should be on the lookout for things like that.
Of course, in this day and age, merely discussing how to subvert that technology could be against
some kind of law, you know, a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act or something.
We were speaking hypothetically.
Okay.
And you're speaking hypothetically now, I hope.
Of course.
Because we have many people listening that will report us in a second.
No, it was all conjecture.
All right.
Well, we have with us, joining us, Dan Morgan, formerly of Satellite Watch News.
Dan, how are you?
Good, Emanuel.
How are you doing?
Pretty good.
Pretty good.
Sorry I missed you this year at the Dayton Hamvention.
But you got to hang out with Bernie and Jeff here.
Had a great time.
Yeah.
So what's new with you these days?
Not much.
Just sitting back, working in the Internet industry right now, and trying to educate
people to live outside this thing I call a box.
People are...
Education today has gotten so bad, Emanuel.
People are being so programmed.
And thank God you're doing what you're doing, because you guys bring people out of this
thing called a box, society's box.
And it's a really unique environment right now.
The stress level of America goes up a notch.
What, too high now?
The terrorism level.
I can't give you any reason why it's going up, but it's increasing again.
So I guess because we all live in this thing called a box, it's okay that they do that.
They don't have to tell you why.
Right, right.
And you know, no matter what, they always win.
You know, if there's no terrorist act, it's because they did it.
And if there is, well, they have to do more then.
It makes you wonder.
It makes you wonder why.
But what amazes me is why people actually just say, okay, it's dangerous again.
We should all just duck.
The neatest thing, I've got to bring to your attention, and this may be a bit off topic
tonight, but it's the neatest thing.
I'm kind of a survivalist.
I spent several tours in Vietnam, been around the country a little bit.
So I prepare for things like this.
I mean, when people are flying planes in the air, large skyscrapers in America,
but, you know, the World Trade Center, you kind of say, oh, there's something bad going on.
I mean, that was obvious to all of us.
So I kind of prepared for the worst outcome.
You know, bought myself, for example, a gas mask.
A lot of people laugh at that.
America thinks they're so protected because they live in this thing called a box.
But they're really not.
In the newspaper, all right, our great FEMA people say, be prepared.
This is all you need.
You need a first aid kit.
You need diapers for the baby.
You need a water supply, some food, a couple of flashlights, and a radio.
What about the duct tape?
Oh, you've got to have the duct tape.
They kind of blew that off after a while.
That became a joke.
So anyway, this was the big thing.
FEMA writes this great big article.
It's front page in a local newspaper here.
The next day, front page in a local newspaper, they said, FEMA says do not buy gas masks because they can kill you.
You can suffocate owning a gas mask.
The next day, a local police department was given 30 gas masks to be prepared for a terrorist attack.
Now, what is wrong with that picture?
And they were happy to have them.
Interesting.
Accurate technical information.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, Dan, now you've had quite a history as far as battling for freedom of speech,
and they came and they shut you down for what you were saying, right?
That's exactly right.
What I did, folks, is I published a magazine.
Well, that sounds familiar.
Yes, talking about satellite technology.
And this is where I'm going with this box thing.
Okay, living outside the box.
Here's the deal.
I was publishing a magazine talking about satellite technology.
Of course, a lot of people know TBRO, if you will.
That's the big dish.
TBRO means TV Receiver Only.
It's encrypted.
All your pay-per-views, all your HBO, Cinemax, and so forth, they're encrypted.
They're scrambled.
A programmer wants to protect his investment,
and they do that by scrambling these things so the general public just can't receive them.
We wrote about the technology itself.
It's encryption, how to decrypt it.
We never told people directly how to do it.
We explained what went into it.
And in the end, first it was the big dish.
I'm sure a lot of you folks have seen the large 10-foot, 7-to-10-to-12-foot dishes,
sitting in people's yards and incense.
That has come down to the small DirecTV dishes, the 18-inch dish.
And what happened is general instruments,
the people who originally started the encryption with the big dish,
never bothered us.
They loved us.
We were a source of information for them,
who was hacking, if you will, their device and who was playing with the technology.
So they kind of enjoyed us as a source of information.
DirecTV didn't find us that amusing and decided to shut us down,
and they did that through major litigation.
They sued us.
They told us we couldn't do these things, and ultimately we had to leave.
They actually took away their best source of information on who was doing what with what.
They took away their intelligence.
Things like that can be intel for people like that.
Absolutely.
And they didn't look at the value of just the knowledge.
We were teaching people, you know,
and it's a sad situation what's happened in this country, how people can just, you know,
you can't speak about things like that.
If it's not proper and it's not right in there, they put their thumb on you and snub you out.
Emmanuel has seen several cases like this, and it's a bad thing.
And what really bothers me,
and some of the things I was writing in the magazine in the editorial column towards the last issues,
I was noticing subscriptions decreased because we were having more like freebie,
a month delayed publications.
We were putting them out on our website.
So people started to drop, start losing touch with the print media.
They would wait a month to see, you know, the current issue on the Internet.
Well, that information was time sensitive.
So those people really lost out.
And a lot of these people that waited to see that magazine on the Web were in awe
when they finally found out that we went away.
So the point and case here is support print media.
You've got to support print media.
Don't, you know, like, I don't know, you publish your magazine on the Web at all, Emmanuel?
No, because we're too busy just keeping the website going.
It's like an independent project in and of itself.
But, you know, we welcome people spreading the information that we print
because that's, you know, the goal when you print something, at least in my world.
To educate people.
To educate people to get the word out.
That's why we want people to, you know, copy the radio show and just, you know, copy the film
if they can't afford to buy it themselves.
Of course, we want people to still buy it so that we stay in business and can continue doing this.
That's an essential part of it all.
But the overall feeling when you're in something like this is you want the word to get out.
And that's why it's so important.
I guess you're very true.
Get the word out.
But see, the big thing is today with the Internet, computers, people are,
how many homes would you say in America have a computer?
That's a good question.
I probably would get that completely wrong.
What do you think, Jeff?
A third?
Maybe a third.
Yeah.
The big problem is, guys, is that people are relying more and more and more every day on this thing called a computer.
They're letting their subscriptions to print media go away.
Supporting these things, these books, these papers,
print media is still a very, very, very valuable medium.
Much like what you do on WBAI in New York.
Communication, talking, you can't get it all off the Internet.
I know your show is available on the Internet, but it's also available over the airwaves to people.
These things need to be supported.
And if we keep just using computers, I mean, computers are great.
I use them every day.
But the thing is, and I was talking to a publisher two days ago saying that his subscription rate has dropped 15%
in the last year.
And he said the biggest reason was because people were getting their information off the Internet.
Well, you know, it also points to something else that affects us.
Most publications, they don't get their money so much from subscribers.
They get it from advertisers.
And those of us that publish alternative news, we rely on those subscribers more than anything else.
You're primarily subscriber-supported.
That's right.
We're entirely subscriber-supported because we don't have any advertising.
And that's kind of a parallel to this radio station, which has no advertising and relies on its subscribers,
on people to actually call up and pledge and become a part of it.
And I should point out, too, by becoming a part of it, you also become eligible to vote for the local advisory board,
which is something fairly new here.
And that's something that I think people should take a great interest in,
actually becoming part of the radio station and determining its future and what direction it's going to be heading in.
But the only way to do that is to call in and pledge and show some support for whatever it is you can afford.
It's vitally important.
We got over $2,100.
We're almost at $2,200 at this point, which is good.
But we need to hit $3,000, I think.
Is that our goal for tonight?
And we have until 10 o'clock to do it.
And it's just going to take a few people calling in, pledging whatever it is they can afford.
212-209-2950.
And we have all kinds of premiums.
I don't want to go too crazy describing them again.
Basically a hooded sweatshirt and VCDs of the H2K2 conference and off-the-hook T-shirts, things like that.
The Italian people know all about them, so feel free to ask them any questions.
212-209-2950.
Emanuel?
Yes, go ahead.
There's another big parallel between print media and radio, like WBAI, and that is both of those technologies,
which although they've been around for decades or centuries, those are the only two technologies around for getting information,
and in our case, good technical information you can't get anywhere else,
whereby others, specifically government, can't easily look over your shoulder.
If you look at the contract with your Internet service provider,
you'll find that your surfing habits can be easily watched by the ISP
or any law enforcement agency that asks them to track your activity.
If you're listening to WBAI, getting information from this station, that can't happen.
If you're reading print media and somebody's physically looking over your shoulder,
that's not going to happen there either.
So if you're the paranoid type, help support this radio station because your listening habits can't be tracked.
Yeah, that's true.
The big thing here, folks, like I said, I was in print media for a lot of years.
I believe in print media today.
The biggest thing is what Emanuel Berniasse is doing.
These guys, Flash and all, everybody is doing really, really fantastic things.
They're, number one, keeping you informed.
Knowledge is power.
These folks offer that type of ability.
They bring you up to speed on what's happening in the industry.
You know, everybody looks at 2,600 folks as hackers.
Well, first of all, hackers are not.
Most of the hackers are really not malicious people.
They're learning.
Why are they learning?
To educate you, to educate themselves.
They've got this thirst for knowledge.
They live outside this thing, again, excuse my expression, but outside this thing called a box.
They're not saying, well, Joe Blow said you can't do this, so you don't ever do that.
No, they're saying, I want to know why I can't do that.
I want to know why it works.
I want to know why.
Just don't sit there and say, you can't do that.
And that's why hackers keep getting in trouble because they do that all the time.
The thing is, Emanuel, I've known people of all walks of life, people that study software,
people that have disassembled code that shouldn't be disassembled.
Why did they do it?
They wanted to know why.
They didn't want to hack anything.
They didn't want to destroy anything.
They just simply wanted to know how it worked, why it worked.
Emanuel, Bernie, you guys do excellent things.
And if you people out there can't reach your pockets and keep this thing alive, shame on you.
If this stuff goes away, there will be no more information.
The information highway is dying now.
The true information highway.
Sure, you have the Internet, but haven't you noticed certain sites vanishing all the time?
Why are they vanishing?
Who is threatening them?
Who is keeping them under their finger?
Who is saying, you can't go out of this thing, excuse my expression again, out of the box?
Heck with it.
You can go out of the box.
You can learn.
You can be as smart as you want to be.
But you must also help support that information highway, the true information highway.
And that's one of the things these guys do.
2600 is a great group of people.
I'll tell you what, I know these people personally, folks.
They've been really good to me.
I hope I've been there for them.
You've been good to us, Dan.
And I'll tell you, they're valuable people.
And I believe every year I travel to Dayton, Ohio, to meet them and just sit there and talk with them.
And it's a fascinating thing.
We share ideas.
Nobody is sitting there hacking.
We're sitting there discussing what the world is coming to and where it should be.
And we believe in good things.
There's no terrorism here.
No, definitely not.
This is good stuff, people.
This is stuff to make you one step smarter in case someone is trying to, you know, maybe do some terroristic things to you.
They bring you to the top.
Like they said earlier, I believe it was Bernie S. talking about the Internet.
Sure, you can be eavesdropped on real easy.
These people told you that you could.
And it's true.
I'm an ISP.
I know it can happen.
We don't do that.
As a matter of fact, we run one of the most secure systems in the world here.
And we value our customers.
We value their privacy.
What's the name of your ISP?
It's pop4.net.
www.pop4.net.
One thing I've noticed with the Internet, as you were talking about, is the change as there's more corporate control, restrictions in what you can do as a customer and what you can't do.
A lot of times now you can't run a server.
You can't run a website.
You can't have a static IP.
All kinds of things that, you know, we were used to back in the 90s.
It's slowly being taken away and controlled in, you know, more and more complete a way so that you can't shape it yourselves.
You have to basically, if you want the high-speed access, you have to play by their rules.
And if you don't get that, you don't get anything.
Well, our big thing is we value our customers.
We take very, very good care.
And I'm not advertising.
I mean, I'm here to help you guys out.
I love what you guys do.
And, you know, the thing is we're an honest company.
I know you folks are as honest as ever.
I mean, good people and good information is hard to come by.
And you got to guard this stuff because there's not much of it left in this country.
People are always trying to say, you know, they're good.
Maybe they're a little bit too good.
So let's push them aside.
Don't ever let anything like this go away.
212-209-2950.
We have no calls on the line.
Can you believe after that kind of impassioned speech,
I would think the switchboards would be, you know, blowing up from all the calls coming in.
I highly recommend you guys get on the phone.
I really do.
And, you know, like the Satellite Watch News.
We went down.
They got us.
Of course, it was a battle.
Again, DirecTV was against us.
A little teeny publication, folks.
I said, you know, they sent me a cease and desist letter.
I could have went away.
Just poof, gone.
But, no, I said, I believe in the freedom of press.
The freedom of speech.
I believe in America.
This is the greatest nation on the globe.
And how can a major corporation take a little company and put their thumb on it?
Well, it's called the dollar.
You know, in the legal system today, it's not if you're right.
It's not if you're wrong.
It's how much money you have.
So you can be totally, totally innocent of any crime.
If the prosecution has the most money, they win.
And you can't let that happen.
This is America.
God, what a place.
I've heard that said so many times where, you know, it all depends on how much money you have.
It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong in the courtroom.
And it's such a sad thing that we've been brought to this.
But, unfortunately, those are the realities of the situation.
One way that we can fight that is to have as many voices as possible.
Now, Dan, it really upsets me a lot that your voice was silenced in that manner.
But you still have your voice, you know, as a human being.
And you can still speak out as you're speaking out now.
But it really angers me that a company could come and take your newsletter, which I read religiously,
to shut it down because they want to keep their, you know, their information secret from the public.
They don't want people to know how the technology works.
And because they're bigger, because they're more powerful, because they can get all the lawyers they want,
they can just, you know, run roughshod over somebody simply speaking their mind and spreading information.
Let me boil you a little bit more.
DirecTV originally used the smart card encryption system, which I'm pretty sure you're familiar with.
Yes.
They bought that from a company called News Datacom, which was owned by Rupert Murdoch, okay?
And now Rupert Murdoch owns DirecTV.
Who was in bed with who?
Wow.
When they bought the encryption system, they knew it was flawed and hacked already.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And, you know, it's interesting, too, that the newest cards they came out with, whatever series that is,
was supposed to be unhackable.
I saw one the other day that was hacked.
I haven't seen that stuff in, like, eight years or, no, no, it hasn't been that long, five years.
Well, you're not allowed to even think about it, I don't think, right?
No, I don't even think about it anymore, but I'm going to tell you something.
It is amazing that ultimately I was sued in 99, put out of business in September of 99, totally out of business.
I mean, left penniless, folks.
It took everything I had just to get to where I got in federal court.
Everything.
I mean everything.
I had $100,000 saved up in the bank to build me a new house.
Well, to tell you the truth, I still live in the same mobile home that I lived in in 99, in 89, in 79.
My dreams were taken, taken by corporate America.
Wow.
I still live in a, what is it, 12 by 70 mobile home.
I've been a publisher.
I'm a double E engineer.
They took everything I ever had I worked for.
Gone.
Poof.
And that can happen to you if you don't keep on top of what's going on in this country,
and the only way to do that is with people like Emanuel and, you know, 2600,
listening to this radio show, Off the Hook, on WBAI on Wednesday nights.
God, support it.
If you don't support it, oh well.
It won't be here.
When you talk about what's, by the way, our phone number, 212-209-2950, please,
let's get those phone calls coming in.
When you talk about what's happened to you and the horrible injustice,
I think of how many other people I know that have been through similar things,
whether it be Bernie S. being imprisoned and practically tortured in prison
or what happened to Kevin Mitnick.
You know, even 2600 ourselves, we were come after by, you know,
the Motion Picture Association came after us simply because we published source
code to a program which didn't do what they said it was going to do in the first place.
The intimidation tactics, which, you know,
if we didn't have the kind of support that we had both from organizations like EFF
and also all the readers and listeners that turned out and helped us spread the news,
you know, that made such a difference.
That is what made us survive this.
If it wasn't for that, I don't think we would have made it.
I don't think we would have survived.
I know you.
And, you know, when we first met, we kind of just stood there and looked at each other.
You know, people that have been had like we've been had.
You just kind of size everybody up.
Actually, your heart is saying, hey, let's go over and talk to this person.
But you're saying, whoa, wait a minute.
You know what I'm saying?
The big thing is, is that once you've been here, folks, because there was no,
before Emanuel, there was no Emanuel.
There might have been, but we never heard of him.
Well, there was another one, but we don't talk about him.
Okay.
But what I'm saying, before I did Satellite Watch News,
there was no Satellite Watch News to speak of like we did it.
And the thing is, is that we both have brought great information to this country.
And to this day, it's amazing the people that remember you because you taught them something.
You actually educated somebody.
You didn't educate them to go out and rip somebody off or hack,
maliciously destroy somebody's network or anything like that.
You taught them how to be more aware of what is going on around you.
We have five calls on the line, folks.
209-2950.
Your surroundings.
You've got to be aware of what's going on around you.
You know, I talk to a person.
I'll tell you how some people in America have become.
And it's sad because I'm a Vietnam veteran.
God, I love this country.
And I was talking to somebody the other day.
And this is how unattached some people can be.
They walked.
They had lived in this place for about six years.
It's a beautiful place.
They walked out of their house, walked 30 feet into their backyard.
There was a six-foot tree that they did not know was in their yard.
Now, Emanuel, can you believe this?
This was a six-foot tree.
This guy had never seen this.
Six feet tall?
Six feet across?
Six feet tall.
Okay.
He said, I've never seen it before.
He's been mowing this lawn forever.
Then he walks back in the house.
He looked at his wife.
He said, did you know about that tree that was in the backyard?
She said, that's been growing there for about three or four years.
Do you know what he was wrapped up in?
The stock market.
Wow.
He had lost everything because he was so wrapped up on one company.
I'll bet he couldn't see the forest either.
This man lost almost everything because he was so narrow-minded.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's something that I see in a lot of different people,
a lot of different perspectives.
You have to open up.
At the radio station, you hear all kinds of different viewpoints,
you may agree with things you may not agree with,
but I think we all have something in common where we're all trying to get
peace and justice one way or another.
That's kind of what we stand for.
For sure.
I'd like to pop my e-mail address.
If people would like to write me and just talk back and forth,
I'd be glad to write them back.
Can I do that?
Sure, go right ahead.
All right.
It's just simply dan at pop4.net.
That's P-O-P, the number, 4.net.
If you hear us here, just let us know.
That's great.
Don't get on here.
I haven't talked to you in,
geez, I think I spoke to you by phone from Dayton.
Prior to that, it's been over a year.
Yeah, it's been too long.
And, you know, I regret losing touch with people over.
You know, we get caught up in our own things a lot as well.
But, you know, I like to think when it's all said and done,
and I get this feeling at certain times,
sometimes when an issue is put out, sometimes when a conference is over,
sometimes when we do a fundraiser, that, you know, it really does matter.
And that's based entirely on the feedback that we get, the support that we get.
When there's a good response here,
it just feels like there are a lot of people out there and that they, you know,
they are getting something out of it.
And that gives us the strength to keep going and to keep moving forward.
You know, when you get a lackadaisical type of response, it kind of like, you know,
it affects you.
It really does.
It shouldn't, but it most definitely does.
Oh, yes.
212-209-2950.
You have about 31 minutes to make us feel good tonight.
Are the phones lighting up?
We have two calls on the line right now.
We had about five before.
I know there's people still out there.
Here's what I want to say.
Okay.
I'm going to challenge you people out there.
I'm serious.
Emmanuel wants $3,000 tonight.
That's a very small amount to stay on top of what's going on in this world.
It really is.
It's actually a speck.
I realize the economy really stinks right now, and it does.
The economy is bad all over.
But if you're reaching your pockets, let's say you got five extra bucks,
call them and give it to them.
I'd like to see these people raise about $3,500, if not more, tonight.
Which we certainly can.
And I'll tell you something.
We have.
I'll tell you something.
If they go away because they can't afford this.
You know, airtime, transmitters, all this stuff costs a lot of money.
This station, WBA, has got engineers.
They have the electric bill to run this transmitter.
It's expensive.
It doesn't come cheap.
I've been in broadcasting for a number of years, radio and television,
and I pretty much know what goes into doing what he's doing.
Not only that, this time that he's on the air is probably pretty much just a gift of love.
Absolutely.
He don't make any money doing what he's doing.
He's paying to do what he's doing.
And if this was a commercial radio station this hour, we had three hours tonight,
it would be a fortune.
I mean, it would be worth so much money to do this.
$3,000 certainly would not cover it.
So what we're asking you to do is just help us live in fantasy land here
and keep this place going because, you know, by all logic, it should not exist.
It really shouldn't.
Since 1960, people have been saying,
how in the world could an FM radio station exist in the middle of the dial,
50,000 watts, New York City, based solely on listener support?
That makes no sense.
It can't happen.
On 99.5, yes, listener supported in New York.
You know, I've got to tell you something.
You really have a beautiful area out there.
New York, you mean?
Yes.
Absolutely.
It's a gorgeous place.
It certainly is.
You know, that's where all this terrorism took place originally.
That's what started it.
And you know something, people?
With what Emmanuel does teach you in one way or the other,
if hell does come to really raise in this country,
this little bit of information in one way or the other
is going to really add to your arsenal of survival.
Remember that.
Being on top, being knowledgeable, being educated takes the fear out of the unknown,
and Emmanuel does that well.
Well, I think you give me too much credit,
but certainly a lot of people here are pitching in
and helping to bring you alternative voices and ideas and things like that,
and that's what makes WBAI tick.
We have three calls on the line, 212-209-2950.
Please, let's make that 5, 6, 7, whatever it takes.
Let's get us over the goal that we want to reach for tonight.
We're only on for another 28 minutes or so.
Jeff, you have some people you want to thank, right?
Yeah, and before we do that, there was something I wanted to comment to Dan about.
He was talking before about how the print media can't go away,
and it's really true.
Even the radio show, what we post later,
if it isn't done, if it isn't put out now and supported,
there's nothing to put on a web later.
You have to get it out.
You have to publish the magazines and do those things
so that there's something to put up to the web.
You have to treat the roots, otherwise if this dies,
the rest of the tree goes as well.
That's a very nice analogy. I like that.
If you like that analogy, please call in
and pledge whatever it is you can afford to this radio station.
Keep us going.
Again, we have VCDs, video on CDs of the H2K2 conference.
We're offering three of those for a pledge of $75.
For $125, you can get the brand-new 2600 hooded sweatshirt
in addition to the three video discs of the conference.
Everybody who calls in and pledges $25 or over
will get an off-the-hook T-shirt.
Of course, that's in addition to any WBAI premiums you might get,
such as the folio, which will be mailed to you
telling you what's on the air.
Yeah, the thanks that we want to give out
are to Cedric in the Bronx here,
Gerald in Brooklyn.
We've got William.
I'm going to read it just that way.
What, William? No location?
Okay, all right.
I'm trying to follow the little notes here.
We've got Chris in Newcastle, Delaware.
First for that state.
Okay, we're waiting for Delaware to clock in, and here they are.
Okay, that's good.
How many states do we have now?
Dave from Hoboken.
Hoboken, there you go.
I don't have that tally sheet.
That's not a state, but it's almost a state.
But I'm just trying to...
You can see Hoboken from here.
That's true.
Yeah, it's getting there.
The card says...
It almost looks as big as New York now.
The card says just say Dave from Hoboken.
Okay.
Susan, Bayshore, New York.
All right.
And then here's another first.
We've got Paul from Stokesdale, North Carolina.
All right, North Carolina.
You know, one thing I have not heard
is anybody from outside the United States.
No, not yet.
Yeah, what's up with that?
Oh, there's another note here.
Random sample says hi to you.
Okay.
Hello, random sample.
And for those of you outside the country,
again, you know, country code is one.
The phone number is 212-209-2950.
Please give us a call.
We only have a few minutes left.
One thing I'd like to do is play another excerpt
from one of the panels that we're offering.
In fact, we're offering all the panels.
Just go to www.h2k2.net
to see a full listing of everything that we have.
But this is from a panel that Bernie S. was on
along with Shapeshifter.
And it's called Abuse of Authority.
We're just going to listen to a couple of minutes of this,
and then we'll be taking your phone calls.
212-209-2950.
Actually, we're taking your phone calls now for pledges.
Yeah.
Dan, were you going to be able to hang around for this?
Yeah, I can hang around for this.
Oh, great.
Okay, we'll talk to you right after we play this excerpt.
We have five calls on the line.
I'm not sure if we have enough volunteers down there.
We might have to send some people down the hall
to pick up phones.
If the phone keeps ringing, please do not give up.
It means that people are running around frantically
trying to answer all the phones, and that's good, you know,
when they start running into walls and things like that.
We don't want anybody to get hurt,
but we do want people to be active
and to be trying to answer as many phone calls as they can.
That way, we'll get above the goal that we set for ourselves,
and you can help us get there.
212-209-2950.
Let's take a listen to this panel from the H2K II conference.
Some of these things.
Did you have some examples of the things we just went over?
Terrence?
Especially when I was picked up by or tackled, let's say,
by, like, I don't know, 12 police officers
from the Philadelphia police
the day after all these protests that I supposedly led,
which it turned out later that I wasn't actually at the protests.
They were accused of me leading,
which consisted of a bunch of people
who were sitting down the street,
and when they're asked three times
by the law enforcement to move, they did.
So there wasn't actually any crime there,
and that was still enough to arrest me
and put me under a $500,000 bail.
But before then, I was put in an interrogation room
in the homicide division,
and they were trying to intimidate me, obviously,
a homicide division.
Were you intimidated?
A little, you know.
But, you know, there's some legal people
who were working with all the protesters
before the RNC protests,
and, you know, one of their best advices,
I would like to remain silent.
I would like to see a lawyer.
If you say that for about eight hours straight,
they're not going to ask you too many questions.
So...
Very stubborn.
You know, that's, you know,
they just speak to a lawyer
before you say anything to law enforcement,
even if it's minor.
You know, I didn't even give them my name for eight hours.
So...
Alex, what's the...
You might be able to shed some light on what's the law.
If you say, I want to speak to my lawyer,
can questioning continue?
Can they continue to, you know,
just berate and nag you...
Absolutely.
...and threaten you for the next eight hours
if you say, I want to talk to my lawyer,
I want a phone call to talk to my lawyer?
Do they have to stop and let you make that phone call
and talk to your lawyer,
or can they continue to ask you questions for the next week?
They're supposed to stop,
but what they'll try to do is say,
well, you don't really need...
They can tell you, you don't need to talk to a lawyer.
You know, you can just, like we said before,
you can make this a lot easier in front of yourself.
You don't need to talk to a lawyer.
It's going to take hours for them to get here,
and if you just talk to us now,
we'll get you out of here as soon as we can.
Most importantly, just keep asking for a lawyer.
Don't make any statements to the police.
A lot of times, police officers will say,
well, I'm not responsible for getting you an attorney.
Well, you tell them that you want to talk to the person
who is responsible.
Just keep demanding an attorney.
That's one of the most important things to do.
Don't make any statements without an attorney present.
Another really important thing is,
don't try to explain to them why you are not making statements.
Don't make up stories.
Don't make up any explanations why you're not talking,
regardless of their questions.
Just remain silent.
It's your right to be silent.
You should exercise it.
If you start making up stories about why you're being silent,
they're going to remember that.
They're going to have it on tape.
They're going to write it down,
and most likely it can come back to haunt you if you go to trial
or maybe you make some kind of contradictory statement
where you weren't telling the whole story,
and then if you go to trial,
you'll look like a liar in front of the jury.
So be silent.
Keep asking for an attorney.
Be persistent.
They have to give you one.
Don't be intimidated by their questions.
It's very intimidating.
I was in a situation myself,
and you get flustered.
You don't know how to handle yourself.
You want to explain to them.
Even if you're totally innocent,
just be quiet, get an attorney.
If you can't afford an attorney,
they'll have to provide one for you.
You may sit in there a couple hours.
It's not fun.
We'll get to questions at the end.
I'm sorry.
I imagine these laws vary from state to state also.
But what's the time frame?
If you ask to speak to your attorney?
I want to talk to my lawyer.
How long can they drag that out?
They can drag it out for a long time.
What's a long time?
I would imagine that they could keep you for overnight.
It depends on when you get arrested.
What's that?
Three days.
You can be arraigned in three days too.
We're going to cut away at this point
because that's where discussions get started in that particular panel.
That was abuse of authority.
Bernie, you were on that panel, right?
I was, although my pot was just turned down,
so I couldn't hear any of that.
But I do remember it pretty well.
You couldn't hear that.
I wonder why not.
That's awfully strange.
That should have worked.
You guys couldn't hear what we just put on.
That's unfortunate.
But if you pledge, you can ask for that VCD,
and then you can hear it on your own CD player,
on your own video player, that is.
Great.
I'll do that.
It was really something watching Shapeshifter Terrence up there
talking about what happened to him.
He still is our layout artist.
A couple of summers ago, right after H2K in 2000,
he was arrested during the Republican National Convention
in Philadelphia and held on $500,000 bail
and just basically accused of being an organizer.
And it's so bizarre to see somebody you know being thought of in such a way
and being treated as a mastermind of sorts
when you know that there's nothing further from the truth.
You almost get used to it.
You almost get used to people misinterpreting facts this way,
and you're seeing situations like what happened to you,
what happened to Shapeshifter, what happened to Kevin,
what happened to FiberOptic.
I mean, the list just keeps going on and on.
Of course, Dan Morgan, you know.
Emanuel?
Yes.
You want a good example of what's happening in America
and proof that you can say only what they want you to say
and that freedom of speech really don't exist.
First of all, folks, again, I'm a Vietnam veteran.
I believe in freedom of press, freedom of speech.
I believe in the Constitution of the United States
more than you'll ever believe.
But during this last scenario of a war,
Iraqi freedom or whatever they called it, I believe it was Iraqi freedom,
several motion picture stars,
including a music group called the Dixie Chicks,
spoke against the war.
Well, first of all, if you live in America, you support your president,
no matter how good or bad, you support him.
And you support the people that are fighting for your freedoms.
Well, they spoke against us.
Now these people are blacklisted.
They're pretty well done.
The Motion Picture Association says they're not going to, you know,
adhere to any blacklisting of any stars.
But basically, look at the people that were doing ads.
I can't remember their names off the top of my head
because I don't watch a lot of television.
But I can't think of it right now.
But anyway, several people who were doing advertising,
they were working for agencies advertising this or that.
They're done. They're all over with.
So they spoke against it.
This is America, the land of the free.
You can say what you want.
But these people are all done.
Emanuel will probably know who more of these people are than I do.
Oh, yeah, I know quite a few of them.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying, though, about that.
What I'm basically saying is because they said,
no, this war is wrong, President Bush, you shouldn't do this.
The Dixie Chicks said,
we're not happy to be from the same state President Bush is.
Right.
Well, these people are throwing their CDs in the garbage.
They're saying, yes, that was bad, you should have not done that.
But, in essence, these people are all losing their jobs
because they didn't say they believed it was okay.
What I'm saying is that they spoke out, they spoke their feelings,
and now ultimately they're going to pay a big price,
which is freedom of speech.
They're done.
They're taboo. They're blacklisted.
Now, granted, I probably wouldn't go out and buy a Dixie Chicks CD.
If I had any, I probably would let them collect dust.
The point I'm making is that if you don't say what they want you to say,
you are screwed.
Right, right.
Well, you know, that's...
You know, that's wrong.
And that's something that we see quite a bit of.
But you know what's interesting about that?
What's interesting about that is in the case of the Dixie Chicks,
they actually had a pretty good turnout at their concert not too long ago.
The people who were leading the charge against them
were organizations like Clear Channel,
the ones who own all the radio stations.
So the radio stations will stop playing them,
but the fans will still exist.
So, you know, the fans are irrelevant as far as the radio stations are concerned.
You know, they can control who becomes a star and who does not become a star,
who gets airplay and who doesn't.
And the Clear Channel Corporation had a lot to gain
by the upcoming decisions of this administration
with regard to radio stations they can own.
Bernie Emanuel, my point here is it's...
This is America.
You have the right to say what you want to say.
As long as you're not threatening anyone,
you're not trying to harm anyone.
They didn't try to harm no one.
They just disagreed with what was happening.
You know, our commander-in-chief's leadership,
they disagreed with that.
Fine. That's okay.
But don't say you can't make a living here because you don't agree.
Right, right. Precisely.
Don't say that you can't publish a magazine because you think it's malicious.
Read the darn thing.
Try to understand it before you go putting your thumb on somebody.
Nobody's out here killing anyone.
You know, they're trying to educate people.
Sure, their ideas in our hearts were probably wrong.
But they believed it was okay.
So they didn't draw a gun.
They didn't attack America.
They just said what we were doing was wrong.
But, of course, there's no such thing as French fries anymore either.
Well, anyway.
You know what I'm saying?
It's just the way it is.
It's sad.
It's sad.
So, people, I can't stay around much longer,
but what I'm going to say is that please take care of the information you have coming to you,
and the way to do that is support in one way or another what you have here.
You have WBAI.
You have Emanuel Goldstein.
You have Bernie S.
We just broke 3,000.
You have these guys.
Okay, we're at 3,160, in fact.
Why are they doing these things for you?
Why are they doing them?
Because, really, quite frankly, I know Emanuel Goldstein.
This guy cares about people.
I've heard him on a cell phone.
I don't know who in the heck he was talking to.
His cell phone.
That's another thing I've got to talk to you about, Emanuel, your cell phone.
When we're visiting, you've got to take that thing and throw it across the bar.
Believe me, I want to.
Anyway, he sits there, and every time he answers that phone,
his first question is, Hi, how are you?
Wrong or right, Bernie?
He cares.
I'm really asking.
I really want to know how somebody is.
I called this guy when I was going through all this hell with DirecTV.
Hi, how are you?
He does this with anybody who's calling him.
He cares about you.
Sometimes I call total strangers and ask them that.
I know you do.
That's why I'm saying.
Get to the business.
No, you do care, and that's the beauty of you guys.
The beauty is you do care.
You want people to know.
And, again, the more you know, the better prepared you are,
the less spectacular a disaster
or something that goes weird in your life will be.
That's right.
You only fear the unknown.
By the way, Emanuel?
Yes, Bernie?
Some good news.
When we were just listening,
you folks were listening to Shape Shifter,
our layout artist for 2600,
talk during the abusive authority panel.
He was not out of the woods yet with his whole legal ordeal with the city of Philadelphia.
But it was just two or three months ago that he finally came out completely victorious
with the city of Philadelphia,
and the city had to actually make good on its errors.
Yes, it's amazing.
It's amazing how much he gained just by fighting back.
So many other people wouldn't have done that.
You really gain a lot of respect for somebody by doing that.
Was all the bail returned?
Was it all returned, Bernie?
It finally was.
It was one of the amazing things of this whole thing.
His friends, you, me, other people helped get him out
because we knew he was unjustly imprisoned.
And the city of Philadelphia, when they released him on bail
and when he won several rounds before it was finally all over,
they wouldn't give back all the bail money.
They kept like 20 percent of it as a service charge.
Yes, and that's standard practice.
And he was found not guilty,
and he had to sue the city just to get back all the bail money.
They were keeping a large chunk of it just as a service charge,
even though he was found not guilty.
It was just ridiculous.
I mean, do people know this?
Do people know that they do things like this when you're found not guilty?
You still have to pay for that right to be found not guilty?
I mean, if that's a fact you just learned,
then you learned something from us.
And, you know, odds are likely you're going to learn something else.
So please support us.
Please keep this place going.
212-209-2950.
I've got to say, we have like a last-minute flurry here.
We're up to 3340, it looks like.
The last zero is obscured.
If whoever is holding that camera could maybe move it over a little bit.
I'm just seeing 334 there.
So either we have $334 or we have 3340.
Or maybe we have $33,400.
That's possible too.
But we just have to move that over just a little bit.
Please give us a call in the last minutes that we have.
212-209-2950.
We've heard a lot of voices in this three-hour period.
And I think, you know, a lot of them are very courageous voices for speaking out,
for standing up for what they believe in.
And I'm really honored to be among this crowd of people,
to be able to talk back and forth, you know, about all kinds of different issues.
I mean, I know we're not going to agree on everything.
There's going to be all kinds of different viewpoints
and backgrounds and things like that.
But that's part of the beauty of it.
That's what makes it worthwhile.
That's how you, you know, stand up for what you believe in,
learn what someone else is thinking.
We can't give that up.
We have to always value the importance of free speech.
And that's what you're doing by calling 212-209-2950.
All right.
I think we've run out of things to say.
It looks like Dan was going to be closer to correct tonight.
He wanted to see 35, and we're less than $200 away.
And we have four calls on the line.
So please, in the last few minutes, 212-209-2950, five calls on the line.
This is great.
It's great to see such a show of support.
And believe me, it's going to make us all feel so much better that, you know,
we didn't spend three hours tonight just, you know, yammering away
and, you know, begging for money and things like that.
You know, it takes a lot out of you to do this.
And it's really important to know that there's somebody on the other end that cares,
that, you know, is going to be there in the weeks ahead to share stories,
listen to things, and just be a part of the whole process.
It really makes it all worthwhile.
I know.
I'm sweating.
We're going to be back on the air again a week from, two weeks from tonight?
Two weeks from tonight, yes, at our usual time slot, 7 to 8.
And we'll be able to cover some current events in the world of technology
and law and hacking and that sort of thing.
Yeah.
No doubt there will be many such developments as there always are.
Who knows what the color will be by then?
Maybe it will be red.
Maybe it will be blue.
Nobody knows.
Orange.
Orange.
Well, we're orange now.
Yes.
Now, Jeff, you have a couple more people to thank.
Yeah, I've got a bunch here.
I've got Aaron from Upper Nyack, New York.
All right.
Thank you, Aaron.
At the bottom here it says Boston 2600 Group.
I don't know why.
Yeah, maybe it's somebody who went up to Boston and joined the Boston 2600 Group
and now is back here recovering from that experience.
Benjamin from Old Bethpage, New York.
Thank you, Benjamin.
Old Bethpage.
Dimitri, Queens, New York.
Thank you, Dimitri.
Mark, Hastings, New York.
Mark from Hastings.
Thank you very much.
Anthony, Jersey City, New Jersey.
I wonder if that's Hastings on the Hudson or just plain old Hastings.
Was that Anthony from New Jersey?
That was Anthony from Jersey City, New Jersey.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
We've got Michael from West Orange, New Jersey.
Michael, West Orange.
A lot of New Jersey people tonight.
Yeah.
Thank you, guys.
My people.
Emily, New York, New York.
Thank you, Emily.
Andrea, Ames, Iowa.
Iowa.
IA?
IA is Iowa.
Iowa is really coming through tonight.
Thank you so much for that.
I have family in Ames, Iowa.
Well, maybe this is one of your distant relations.
It could be.
But I'm amazed by how many people have been calling in from Iowa.
It's almost like you would think based on what people say about the rest of the country
that, oh, no one's going to listen to WBAI in Iowa.
Wrong.
People care about what's going on.
It's really important to everybody around the world.
And we know there are people streaming this show right now in Amsterdam.
That's right.
That's right.
Although I don't see anybody calling from Amsterdam.
What's up with that?
Everybody's calling from the United States.
That's fine.
But we know there's listeners in other parts of the world, too.
And your euros are just as good as our dollars.
Let's see.
We've got Bill here from Selden, New York.
Selden.
Yes.
Thank you, Bill.
Karen from-
That's the Bill I know from Selden.
Well, never mind.
All right.
Karen from- looks like Mount Lake Grove.
Well, there's a Lake Grove in New York.
There's a Mount something else in New York, too.
Well, it's not Mount Lake Grove, I'll tell you that, unless something's happened that I don't know about.
Let's see.
That zip code, I believe, is Lake Grove zip code.
Okay.
And that phone number is a Lake Grove phone number.
But, yes, that's Karen from Lake Grove.
I'm not sure.
You might want to cross out those extraneous letters or we'll go who knows where.
Thanks to all those people.
Thanks so much for bringing us to where we are now.
There's still time.
There's still time for you to call in and add your support so that we can continue moving along and surpassing even our wildest dreams, which we seem to be doing right now.
212-209-2950.
Somebody we left out?
I got one that's fresh.
They haven't even got it open.
Did you just write this out?
Oh, my goodness.
This is Lynn from Memphis, Tennessee.
And he's, let's see, we've got Atlantafreenet.org.
Yeah.
Now, Lynn, you've been here.
This is the first time you've been to this radio station, and we get money out of you for the first time through the door.
Tell us more about your organization, how people can find out more.
Okay.
Well, that's great.
Actually, I called in and pledged in the last pledge drive.
Oh, yeah?
Yes.
Cool.
And I'll talk to you about that later.
I haven't gotten your shirt yet because we just got the shirts now.
They're hot off the press.
They are hot off the press.
But, yeah, if you're interested in Freenets, you can go to Atlantafreenet.org, and there's a lot of information there.
And Matt would be happy to talk to you.
He is kind of the founder of this group.
And if you have experience in wireless networking, expertise in any area, including PR and anything else, please contact us.
We'd be happy to talk to you.
And even if you're thinking about setting up a Freenet in your area of the world, we'll be happy to help you out so you don't have to reinvent the wheel.
Okay.
And there is one thing I would like to do.
I want to personally thank Dan for coming on the phone with us tonight.
Yes, Dan.
Thank you so much.
I know he wanted to get away, and we've kept him on almost the entire last hour here, buddy.
So I really appreciate you hanging out.
All right.
Hey, have a great night, guys.
And we'll see you next year in Dayton for sure.
All right, guys.
And always remember, support this crew because I'll tell you what, if they go away, so does a lot of knowledge.
Be good.
God bless.
We'll see you later.
All right.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
Where was he joining us from, actually?
Was it Michigan?
He's from Michigan, yeah.
All right.
Bernie, you're still with us?
Still in Philadelphia.
Okay.
Good, good.
I'm glad we didn't transfer you to another state.
That's pretty much it for us tonight, and I want to thank all the people.
There's still people calling in, and please keep those calls coming.
Three hours went by, like, really fast.
It really did.
And I thank everybody for coming in, for helping out, because it can be really hard sometimes to just constantly be trying to, you know, get a response.
And that response came tonight, and I want to thank all those people who called in.
And if you still think of calling in, this is really your last chance because we're not going to be on again during this fundraiser.
We won't be on next week.
We'll be on the week after that, but we won't be asking for money.
We'll be doing a lot of the stuff that we've been doing over the past however many years we've been doing it and hopefully many more.
Do they know they only have a few minutes to get the T-shirt and things like that?
Yes.
They can't call in an hour from now and get the stuff?
And if you're listening to this on tape later, then it's really too late because you can't call, you know, back in time.
But if you hear us now live, you can always call in the radio station and just pledge in general.
But if you call in now for this particular radio program, you have about three minutes left to do it before we're off the air.
212-209-2950.
We have the videos of the H2K2 Conference.
Again, for a $75 pledge, you'll get three of those.
What we will do is contact you and you can tell us which ones you want.
And for a pledge of $125, you'll get a hooded sweatshirt as well as three videos from the H2K2 Conference.
And again, we'll contact you as far as sizes and things like that.
And hold on.
I don't want to forget this.
And also, everybody pledging $25 or more will get an off-the-hook T-shirt.
212-209-2950.
What am I looking at?
The number.
We're up to 3640.
3640.
Great.
Great.
Thank you so much.
Again, this is Emanuel Goldstein.
For everybody else, Jeff Juntz, Bernie S. on the phone, Dan Morgan, Lynn here, everybody who showed up, everybody who called in, thanks so much.
Please, if you're running for a phone, you still have time to call us.
212-209-2950.
We're going to go out with another of those Roger Waters songs.
Until next week.
Two weeks from now, either.
Have a good night.
See ya.
¶
¶ Rock-a-bye baby
¶ On the treetop
¶ When the wind blows
¶ Cradle me right
¶ Oh, baby
¶ Hate to see you fall away
¶ Better speak to me
Hey, folks.
On Saturday, May 24th, we're going to take a break from all this pitching and fundraising.
And for six hours, we will dedicate mind, body, and spirit to the serious business of Bakken.