A price that they will pay regardless of the consequences according to Russia.
She is not talking anymore about dignity but about destiny.
Anything that happens in the world affects the Palestinians and the Palestinians pay the price.
I think it's our destiny.
A destiny that is still uncertain and risky for Palestinians who didn't forget the continuous Israeli occupation which has lasted since 1967.
I'm Awad Daibas reporting for Free Speech Radio News, Ramallah.
This is Free Speech Radio News. I'm Deepa Fernandes.
And this is radio station WBAI in New York.
And that means it's time for Off The Hook.
I make a call. We couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would.
But really, Bob, for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood. But really, no!
And a good evening to everybody. The program is Off The Hook. Emmanuel Goldstein here with you tonight on this April the 2nd.
We have a full studio. We're going to continue our conversation that we began last week on war coverage in the media and how the internet ties in and things like that.
Bernie S. joins us from down there in Philadelphia. Bernie, how are you doing?
Oh wait, I forgot to press your button. It's my fault this time. Are you there?
Oh, good evening from the city of brotherly love.
Yes, you have a clicking phone I think I hear.
A clicking phone?
Yeah, I hear little clicks on the line.
Oh no, that's some of those people from that African tribe that make those clicking noises that I didn't hear with me.
Okay, well that's just fine.
Well, now you spent today trying to track down somebody from Al Jazeera that we were going to talk to on the radio.
But unfortunately, it's a lot later over there than it is over here.
Yeah, it's about three in the morning there right now.
Yeah, so that complicated matters right there.
But you did talk to somebody. Do you want to tell us what they told you?
We actually had several conversations with people at Al Jazeera, both at their Washington bureau and in Qatar, where they're based out of.
And I spoke to three or four people and finally reached a gentleman named Jihad Hotel, I think his name was.
His name is what?
His first name is Jihad.
His real name is Jihad?
Believe it or not, that's his first name, Jihad. J-A-H-A-D.
Okay.
Sounded like a very peaceful guy.
You know, that could be what people are screaming over there. They could just be looking for their kids.
You know, I never realized that.
Well, anyway.
I mean, it'd kind of be like people here are named Jesus. You could be saying, Jesus!
And people could think you'd be cursing or something or whatever. And you could just be looking for your friend.
Yeah, I had a friend whose dog was named God, but never mind. That resulted in all kinds of confusion.
So anyway, you talked to this Jihad person in Qatar.
Yeah, a very reasonable guy. I enjoyed my conversation with him.
I spoke good English, a bit of an accent.
But what I was trying to do was find someone, at your suggestion, who could talk to us a bit on the air tonight about the problems Al Jazeera is facing with regard to getting the news out to America, as they see it.
As all news agencies report the news as they see it.
And basically, I want to talk with him a little bit about the denial of service attacks that their website has been subjected to.
The DNS hijack recently, where their domain was forwarded to another domain by an unauthorized party.
The problems with them being kicked out of the New York Stock Exchange floor and the NASDAQ floor for no reason other than they were reporting news.
I mean, no other reason.
I think the reason that the government gave was that they were not reasonable or something along those lines.
Well, the first reason was they didn't have enough room for them.
But they already had press passes for that area, so it wasn't like they had less room all of a sudden. I don't know.
I mean, the Hallmark Channel has room in the Stock Exchange, for God's sake.
Yes.
The whole thing is really crazy.
So, okay, what else did you learn from this guy?
Well, Yihad told me that they've been under attack for quite some time now.
He wasn't specific about how long, because it was a brief conversation.
But there was a bit of pain and anguish in his voice about having their website under attack for so many days now.
And I would be pretty upset myself.
Was he the guy that had to fix it?
No.
Actually, there was an IT person that he said I could talk with,
but he said that person could not talk about anything other than specific, just technical things only.
Couldn't talk about their policies or that sort of thing.
This guy seemed more flexible as far as the things that he could talk about.
But he said he wasn't up on the specific technical details.
But we could try to get that other person on the phone maybe next week,
if they're willing to talk to somebody at 3 in the morning.
Yihad, unfortunately, when I spoke with him this morning at 11 o'clock, he'd already worked a 19-hour day.
He's being swamped with calls for interviews.
And he just said he couldn't bring himself to have an interview at 3 in the morning,
considering he hadn't worked for 19 hours straight.
But the fact that he works 19-hour days, maybe the cycle can work next week,
so he begins his 19-hour day shortly before our show, and then we can talk to him.
That would require him to keep a schedule like you.
Yeah. Is that unreasonable? I mean, people do that all over the world.
Well, most people don't have a schedule like a nocturnal bat.
Well, yeah, but if you want to get any work done, you have to.
Okay, so that's promising. Maybe we can talk to somebody in the future.
Since we have an Internet connection right here in the studio,
I just decided to check out the Al Jazeera English site to see if it ever did come up.
And you know what? It did come up. It just came up now for the first time.
I'm perplexed by this because it says,
Site under construction, Jazeera Academy, a demo page for Jazeera Academy.
Now, as far as I know, they're not called.
That's not what I saw last week. I went to that site last week, and I didn't see that.
Okay, well, they're not called the Al Jazeera Academy, but apparently at this point,
I don't know if they're making it go someplace else, but they – well, you know what?
I didn't type Al Jazeera. I just typed Jazeera.
Ah, yes, you do, yeah. http://
I know about that. I know about that.
Well, the listeners may not. If people didn't listen last week, it's http://
Okay, now I'm getting – you are not authorized to view this page from Netscape, or is that Explorer?
No, that's Netscape. So –
Can I read the URL to people at home listening?
Go ahead.
It's http://english.aljazeera.net, and that's A-L-J-A-Z-E-E-R-A.
Now, the odd thing is that I'm getting – according to Netscape,
this error is caused when the server has a list of IP addresses that are not allowed to access the site.
You're not using www, are you?
No, no.
Okay.
This is coming straight from them now, or at least that's what Netscape is saying.
So I'd like to know if other people have gotten that same error,
if anybody can actually get through to it. It's kind of interesting.
Yes, Jim?
Did you type in english.aljazeera.net?
Yes.
You typed in the word English at the start?
Yes.
Okay.
I made one mistake. I forgot to type the L, all right?
I know about the HTTP and all the other stuff, so yes.
I'm doing it exactly the way we're supposed to.
Why don't you try Internet Explorer?
Why would it work differently in a different browser?
Look, you want to run over here and type things in?
It's very hard to type and talk at the same time.
Go ahead. No, feel free.
We'll reach them one way or another,
and we'll see if we can reach the regular Al Jazeera page as well.
Anyway, so to update people, since our show last week,
the Al Jazeera website was quote-unquote hacked.
And what that means is, I don't know what that means exactly.
What basically happened was, according to the Associated Press,
hackers on Thursday replaced the English language website
for Arab satellite television network Al Jazeera
with a U.S. flag and the message, Let Freedom Ring.
Yeah, the hackers, calling themselves the Freedom Cyber Force Militia,
briefly hijacked Internet traffic designed for Al Jazeera's website
and redirected it to a different web page on computers
operated by NetWorld Connections, an Internet provider in Salt Lake City.
Now, they used a method known as DNS poisoning,
and basically what that means is they just were able to fool Network Solutions,
which is really no big feat at all,
into giving up the domain to a different,
I think it was a Vancouver-based registrar.
And what they did there was simply put up their own site,
they got control of the DNS,
and they were able to have fun for a day or so
until the rightful owners of the site were able to get it rectified
and it was put back in Network Solutions' hands.
There's a danger there.
I mean, this happened to us a couple of years ago
when somebody tried to do this.
We caught it and we were able to talk to Network Solutions
and prevent it from going through.
But with enough persistence, this kind of thing does happen.
So nothing happened to their web server?
I don't think so.
Based on what I'm looking at here,
it looks like they simply did a redirect of some sort
by going to a different registrar
and simply gaining control of it that way.
I don't think that's going to happen again.
You can lock domains, so that's impossible to do
unless you provide certain bits of information.
But they were being subjected to lots of denial-of-service attacks.
That was happening before.
There was denial-of-service attacks about this time last week.
And then after we talked about that,
I don't know if they stopped
or if the denial-of-service attacks went along with the new domain.
But I still have not been able to get through to the original web page
that I thought would be rather interesting.
Now, a very good story actually appeared in Wired.
I always like to note when that happens
because it happened on the 31st.
And basically, it's called,
Hackers Condemn Arab Site Hack.
Don't blame hackers for the attacks
that recently took down Arab News Network Al Jazeera's website.
Technically, the site was hacked,
but hackers who say they abhor breaking into systems for fun or profit
as opposed to malicious, here we go, crackers,
and the amateurs known as script kiddies
believe shutting off access to information
is distinctly un-hacker-like behavior.
Then they go into the details as to what happened to the site.
And basically, some quotes here.
The individuals who did this are committing a computer crime
and causing censorships at Oxblood Ruffin,
executive director of Hacktivismo,
a group that develops tools to circumvent censorship.
The former would not be tolerated by American courts.
The latter is in part why America went to war in the first place.
Either way, it's not good.
There's no difference between the White House censoring
a long-time political reporter, Helen Thomas,
and packet wankers taking down Al Jazeera.
Packet wankers.
Yeah, they're all cut from the same cloth.
Bullies, cowards, hypocrites.
I couldn't have said it better.
A bunch of other quotes there, but you'll find that on Wired.
I'm wondering if that's a technical term, packet wankers.
Well, it is now.
I think that's something that will go into a newspeak dictionary.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
So I'm glad to see some kind of a backlash against this sort of thing
because it is extremely wrong.
And we're looking for ways,
I've been talking to people in various parts of the world,
looking for ways as hackers to figure out how to bypass things like this
and how to make information more accessible.
It's got nothing to do with whether or not you agree with it
or whether or not you think they're doing a responsible job.
The point is, it's information out there.
It is a news source.
And it's not up to you, me, or anybody else
to decide who gets to see it and who does not.
Very simple, you know?
Extremely simple.
Anyway, meanwhile, in spite of being mostly knocked offline,
the website of Al Jazeera was among the most sought after on the Internet last week.
According to Like Us, they reported Al Jazeera and variant spellings
became its top search term last week.
Three times more searches than sex.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's no small feat.
You've got to wonder if there's anyone left
who doesn't know how to find sex on the Internet, though.
If you type sex on a search engine,
I mean, how many hits do you get?
It must be a lot.
More hits than pages.
Yeah, probably.
Al Jazeera drew intense interest from web surfers
after broadcast pictures of dead and captive U.S. soldiers in Iraq.
U.S. television networks have decided not to air footage of the corpses.
But they considered it.
They were given the same information, Al Jazeera.
See, people seem to think that Al Jazeera went out there
and photographed this themselves.
They did not.
They simply received the tape from Iraqi television,
like everybody else did,
and they made a different editorial decision.
And it's within their rights to do that.
And chose not to edit it, I might point out.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I wouldn't know because I haven't seen it.
Although a few people have offered it to me on the Internet,
I just have not had time to actually look at it myself.
I'm a little bit afraid to, but I think I will in the end.
How do you feel about...
I mean, we never really discussed that, Emmanuel,
but frankly, I think that that sort of information
being kept away from viewers
sort of desensitizes them to the violence that this war is creating.
Well, yeah, I mean, if you see a bunch of, like, you know,
hacked, mangled corpses that used to be American soldiers,
it kind of, like, you know,
it takes all the fun out of war.
You know?
And people are going to really sort of start questioning things
and having second thoughts about the wisdom of doing this in the first place.
You know?
And before you know it,
more people will be saying,
why are we doing this?
Or hacked or riddled with bullets from any nationality.
I mean, just dead people in general is a bad thing.
We have no problem showing dead Iraqis.
I've noticed that.
I've seen that on television.
I've seen, you know, corpses in the street.
We're showing that all the time.
But apparently if you put a uniform on there,
we're supposed to show respect.
And, you know, you can say that all you want,
but the fact of the matter is we're all in this together
and one dead person is as good as another dead person.
Speaking of uniforms,
have you noticed the interesting claims that have been made
with regard to Iraqi soldiers
allegedly ordering or wearing United States uniforms?
You know, I see all these reports.
I hear reports that all these things are happening,
that people are being threatened to do this,
and that Iraqi soldiers are setting up camp in elementary schools.
But, you know, it's just like the weapons that they're looking for.
They say these things,
but they don't back it up with any evidence.
How would they know such things?
They'd have to be pretty deep into these cities
they're trying to invade
in order to be able to get that information in the first place.
And if they were there,
they should be able to provide some information
as to how to get into the city without being fired upon.
I haven't seen pictures of that.
And also there's been claims by the U.S. government
that the Iraqi soldiers are wearing civilian clothing.
So you end up with a situation, I think,
where if Iraqi civilians are being killed
and shown on television as dead Iraqi civilians,
the other side could claim that,
well, these weren't really Iraqi civilians.
See, they're wearing plain clothes,
therefore they could have been Iraqi soldiers.
Or if you see pictures of people wearing U.S. uniforms
killing Iraqi civilians,
the claim could be made that,
well, those are Iraqi soldiers killing those Iraqi civilians.
So it completely eliminates,
it gives everybody an out
when you see Iraqi civilians dead.
Either way, one can claim,
well, this was either Iraqis wearing American uniforms,
or if, you see what I'm saying?
Well, I did a while ago.
I sort of fell off the bus on the way.
But, yeah, no, I get the point.
I get the point.
I think this whole thing about, you know,
wearing uniforms, not wearing uniforms,
I think it's nonsense.
I mean, it's a war, or it's, you know,
called a war.
It's really an invasion,
as one of our colleagues said last week.
And, you know, if somebody,
if a foreign army was invading our country,
I'll bet a lot of people wouldn't stop to change,
you know, before they started firing their weapons.
You know, they'd probably come at them
all different kinds of ways.
And, yeah, maybe they'd try to fool them
by dressing as them as well.
You know, I've seen these things in movies,
and the audience always seems to think it's clever
when it's our guys doing it.
How about this?
This is an interesting story, too,
coming out of Iraq,
and especially of interest to us.
Apparently, once it's all over,
there is a move to replace
the cell phone technology over there,
to replace the GSM technology
with American CDMA technology,
as soon as the conflict is over
and the country rebuilds.
Now, according to Congressman Darrell Issa,
a Republican in California,
he introduced a bill based on a letter to the Pentagon,
and basically what they're trying to do
is just not have GSM
like almost all the rest of the world does,
certainly that part of the world.
If European GSM technology is deployed in Iraq,
much of the equipment used to build the cell phone system
would be manufactured in France, Germany,
and elsewhere in Western and Northern Europe.
Yeah, that's the reason.
Furthermore, royalties paid on the technology
would flow to French and European sources,
not U.S. patent holders.
This is according to Congressman Darrell Issa,
whatever his name is.
Now, while Qualcomm's roots are deeply embedded
in U.S. military,
the wireless giant is taking a neutral stance
on the issue,
because they probably realize that's smart.
But politics aside,
a massive CDMA launch may cause problems
for the region now,
but not in the future.
This is according to Silicon Valley Internet reporter.
If CDMA were the dominant technology in Iraq today,
customers traveling to a nearby country
that has only a GSM network
wouldn't be able to use a CDMA phone there.
Down the road, the lines will be less rigid.
While the two technologies can coexist,
they are not compatible yet.
Both are in evolution from 2G to 3G,
and supposedly this will work in the future.
But GSM and CDMA platforms
have historically been broken down
along geographic lines.
GSM is used all over Europe,
plus many countries in the Middle East,
Asia, Africa, South America,
Australia, and North America.
That's just about everything, isn't it?
While the United States is firmly rooted in CDMA,
and Asia and Latin America
have gotten a blitz of CDMA technology
courtesy of Qualcomm,
but neither country has established
a de facto standard.
This could be called a cellular beachhead of sorts.
Yeah, and when you consider that CDMA carriers
include Sprint PCS,
you have to wonder,
haven't the Iraqi people been through enough?
One is forced to wonder
if this congressman doesn't have
something else to think about.
Well, you know,
he could be renaming French fries to something else,
but somebody already beat him to that.
I think we should advocate
tin cans and string for Iraq.
Tin comes from Malaysia and Indonesia.
String comes from the Philippines
and similar countries.
Why not give the third world a bone, so to speak?
I think we're giving them a lot of bones,
but no need to be morbid about it.
Now, I don't know if you guys follow
the Peter Arnett story.
Anyone here following that?
Okay, a bunch of nods.
Now, Peter Arnett, as you know,
was one of the main correspondents
for Gulf War No. 1 for CNN.
And as of last week,
he became enemy of the people
when he gave an interview to Iraqi TV
and said such things as,
this war is not working
and we're not being told the entire truth,
things like that.
NBC, which is who he was reporting for,
initially backed him up,
but that didn't last very long
once entities like Fox News and Congress
got a hold of it.
And they fired him shortly afterwards.
And within moments of his being fired,
he was hired by the very newspaper
that we mentioned last week,
the tabloid paper in London called The Mirror,
that's very anti-war.
Imagine having a tabloid newspaper
somewhere, anywhere in the United States.
Are there any that you see in a city
that is virulently anti-war?
Is there a single place in this country
where you can see that?
Now I'm not talking about alternative free weeklies
or whatever things put out by activist groups.
I'm talking about newspapers that everybody reads.
Now England is in this war as well,
yet you can walk down the street there
and you can see newspapers that say
this war is a bad idea in big letters
and nobody tries to hide it.
Nobody tries to rip it down.
Try this, try this.
We were talking about the red war signs,
war stickers that some of us have.
You stick them on stop signs
and pretty soon some guy waving a flag
comes along and rips it down.
Watch it, it happens almost every time.
Now imagine...
Or they put up a peace sign right under the word stop.
They put up a what sign?
Well, you know, the people who would tear down
the war thing, they would put up a peace sign
right under the stop.
Stop peace, yeah.
Obviously that would be their viewpoint, yes?
That's how I interpret it,
but I don't think they're going to go and say that.
I mean, they're not quite that stupid.
I don't think so.
I don't know.
Yeah, they might be getting there.
Some of them might be getting there.
And, you know, there are intelligent people
on both sides, obviously,
but what I'm saying is,
if you go and you deface some piece of property
with, say, a flag or something that says
support our troops or something that says
America united, whatever,
you know, nobody's going to rip that down.
Nobody I know is going to rip it down.
You know, because, first of all,
people are scared to rip it down,
but second of all, you know,
the people that I tend to communicate with
don't believe in ripping down viewpoints,
even if it's not something
they're entirely in agreement with.
However, for this, for this kind of a thing,
it's viewed as not only acceptable,
but your obligation to rip down anything
that's, you know, that's critical,
anything that makes you think in a different way.
You just have to ask yourself,
if you're one of those people
ripping down peace signs, you know,
but sticking up flags and pro-war slogans,
what are you really doing?
What are you really standing for?
You know, it seems kind of counter free expression,
and that's what it's supposed to be all about, right?
Yes.
Right, thank you.
I'm glad somebody came up with an answer there.
I also have something else,
which I think is rather disturbing.
You guys, have you guys seen this?
This sign?
Not until you're showing it to me.
All right, Bernie?
I can't see it from here.
That's right.
On 30-second commercials,
they can send pictures, you know,
and you can see exactly what's going on.
Why can't we do that?
My Sprint phone is three years old,
so it doesn't have that capability yet.
Why don't we read it?
My Sprint phone is off.
Well, basically, it's a picture
of two people holding a sign,
and the sign says,
we support our troops when they shoot their officers.
Ooh.
Yeah, and you know,
I did some research on this last night,
because, you know, it was annoying me.
Enough people were talking to me about this
that it was annoying me.
I wanted to get to the bottom of it.
And when I searched for that phrase,
you search for that phrase,
you find a lot of stories about that.
You get the same picture every single time.
I mean, it's not even a, you know,
it's no different shot.
It's just one shot,
and that's the shot that everybody has.
I thought that was kind of unusual.
And I was suspecting that maybe this was something
that, you know, only appeared for a moment.
There was a photo opportunity.
Someone took a picture, leaked it to the press.
That was the end of that.
And it was not part of anything.
Did a little more research, though,
and found that this actually took place
on March 15th in San Francisco.
And after digging a little more,
I actually tracked somebody down who was there,
who was near those people.
In fact, those people might even be considered friends of his.
And I had the weirdest conversation
trying to explain to this person
why such slogans are bad
for the anti-war movement,
how this kind of a thing is something
that a number of people have come to me
demanding justification
or condemning the entire movement because of that.
And, I mean, he thought it was clever.
A clever play on words.
He thought it was being sarcastic.
You don't transmit sarcasm very well on a sign, you know.
And something like this is,
I mean, basically what you're doing
is you're using the war mentality in a different way.
It's the same basic thing.
You're saying, you know,
don't shoot these people, shoot these people instead.
Right? I mean, what's the difference?
No, I'm done.
Done? All right.
Well, I'm glad everybody agrees.
But it just, it bothers me.
I see the same thing to a lesser degree
in the attitude some people have at demonstrations where,
I mean, yeah, the cops are the ones
that wind up hurting people,
arresting people, making them suffer.
But that doesn't mean that the first time you see a cop,
you have to, you know, be abusive,
shout abuses at him,
or just glare, treat him like an enemy
until he proves that he deserves it.
You're not going to take the position
that the cops are undeserving.
No, I'm going to take the position
that the cops are human beings like everybody else
and that, you know, like soldiers are human beings,
like Iraqis are human beings.
Once you label a particular group of people as the enemy,
then you're engaged in the same war propaganda
that we're trying to fight.
If they have a serious problem with beating people up,
they should quit their jobs.
Well, you know, a lot of people don't have that option.
A lot of people can't just quit their jobs
and take up another career.
Now, you know, I've talked to enough people
that are on the other side and are, you know, enemies
and things like that to know that they don't all support
the actions that happen.
And, you know, there are worse cops than other cops.
There are good cops out there.
And, you know, I think people should be assumed
to be decent people until they prove otherwise.
So, yeah, when they start, you know, hurting people,
abusing them, absolutely throw the book at them
and, you know, pursue justice at any cost.
But if they're just standing there, you know,
to treat them as if they're some kind of vile scum,
that's how you make enemies, you know?
And that's not what we're supposed to be doing here.
I saw a lot of unhappy cops today.
Where did you see unhappy cops?
Here in Philadelphia.
These were actually unhappy federal police,
federal park police.
About 20 of them around Independence Hall,
you know, where our Constitution was signed.
Well, everybody that goes to Independence Hall
is unhappy these days.
Well, the reason they're unhappy is because
there's been this pissing contest
over the past couple of weeks between the mayor
of Philadelphia and the federal park police.
Right at 9-11, right at 9-11,
the federal park police closed off the street
in front of Independence Hall.
And it used to be a nice sidewalk.
You could walk in front of the building on both sides,
and it was a nice walkway.
You had bus routes, bike paths, all this.
It was all blocked off,
and you had to really walk several blocks
out of your way to get around this blockage.
It's been there since September 11th,
a year and a half ago.
So finally, the mayor,
under pressure from businesses in the area,
and people who just like being able to walk around the area
when it was free, complained enough.
And the mayor just said,
listen, this is a city street.
We're going to open it.
And they announced months ago
that the city was going to do this.
And about three days ago,
the federal park police,
federal park service,
called Tom Ridge,
got Tom Ridge to call the mayor of Philadelphia
to say, oh, let's keep this thing closed
for a few more months.
And the mayor said, no,
I don't have any new evidence
that this is a terrorist target of any kind,
no new information.
And finally, it was opened yesterday
at a great fanfare,
and there was a parade and all this.
It was great.
So the city actually faced off
against the federal government.
Exactly.
I was amazed to see this.
I don't really like our mayor very much,
but he actually stood up and did the right thing.
What's your mayor's name?
Mayor John Street.
Oh, yeah.
I've heard of him.
And it should be pointed out, too,
that Tom Ridge is the former governor of Pennsylvania.
Yes.
So it was quite a pissing match,
and the federal park police lost this one.
In retaliation,
the federal park police suddenly yesterday
decided to close Independence Hall
to all tourists
for an undetermined period of time.
So you can't even...
Before you had to...
Since September 11,
you had to get a special pass to tour it.
Now you can't go in at all.
So that's the sort of...
That's the sort of thing
the federal park police are doing now.
It's like, okay,
if you're going to open the street,
we're just going to close
your tourist attraction here altogether
for an undetermined period of time.
So now you can walk past
the Independence Hall and admire it.
You can't go inside
and see where our Constitution was signed anymore.
Now, is this something
that all the public is following?
Is this being covered in the papers?
Oh, yeah.
This is a big story here in Philly.
I don't know about the rest of the country.
That's why I wanted to bring it up on the show.
Yeah, I hadn't heard of it before.
The federal park police say
now they have to bring in
all the special equipment,
magnetometers and x-ray machines
to screen people going into the building,
which makes no sense logically
because they've known about this
months in advance.
They didn't order any equipment.
And why would that suddenly be necessary now
just because the street was open?
I don't get it.
So, frankly,
I think this federal park police thing
is just a self-serving power grab.
If you ever want to see...
That building is not a terrorist threat.
I mean, terrorist target.
Well, no more so
than any other building in the world is.
People don't even work in the building.
It's an empty building.
But if you want to see
what a police state really looks like,
just walk down Wall Street.
What they've done to that street is abominable.
I mean, there's just one narrow sidewalk
to walk down now.
The rest is all gated off
and they have fierce-looking, you know,
soldiers and cops just standing there.
And, you know,
it looks like a military camp is what it looks like
and it's Wall Street.
Seems to me that if they're going to close
the street to traffic,
they should let people walk down it.
Yeah, I mean,
what exactly do they think is going to happen?
You know, they're thinking.
It boggles my imagination.
There's that street that goes directly
in front of the stock exchange.
What is that, New Street?
Is that what it's called?
Which side?
On the southern side.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's New Street.
So you can't even walk down there
unless you're part of NYSE,
which I think is some kind of violation of something.
I mean, it's a public street.
And Broad Street is blocked off totally
for that block in front of the stock exchange.
Yeah, I mean, this kind of thing
has got to be challenged.
It's got to stop.
Also, what's weird is that
I was in Queens over the weekend
and at 2 p.m.,
when I got to the subway station in Queens,
there was no National Guards or anybody there.
There usually is?
Well, the thing is,
when I was leaving at 6 p.m.,
there were National Guards.
So apparently they all come in after 3 o'clock.
That's when they all disappear out of nowhere.
I went to the Union Square station again
and I didn't see any sign of those National Guard troops
that were standing there with machine guns.
Okay, I know a little.
Okay, what do you know about this?
The police and the National Guard
are hitting major hubs
and the occasional small station
at a, quote, semi-random basis.
They're doing that on purpose.
This has been in the papers.
I didn't think it was an accident.
No, no, no, no.
They don't want to do it on a schedule
because then the bad guys would know their schedule
and they don't want to do it regularly
because, you know,
if you know that they're at a given place 80% of the time,
you'll wait until they're gone.
Well, I was more questioning
what the purpose was at all in the first place.
I mean, having six National Guard troops
standing in front of a police station with machine guns,
what exactly are they protecting
and who are they protecting it from
and what in God's name do they plan on doing
with machine guns in a subway station?
Those are just M-16s, actually.
Okay, well, it looks like they can fire a lot of bullets.
Well, they can.
An M-16 can fire 800 rounds a minute.
So that, to me, is a machine gun.
I mean, it may not be
the politically proper way of saying it,
but that, to me, is a machine gun.
Yeah, okay.
All right.
I'll agree with that.
I'm not going to get into a weapons argument here.
They, uh...
They, uh...
Today, they were in the Port Authority
on the second level.
Mm-hmm.
They were walking around with the guns,
so they were in full presence there.
Mm-hmm.
And one thing we haven't determined is
what kind of, uh...
I mean, do they answer to the police?
Oh.
Do the police answer to them?
You know?
Can they threaten you with a gun
for, you know,
for doing something that is a violation
but not, you know, a terroristic crime?
I haven't had that much conversation,
but I did have a one-liner with them.
They're regular Army, incidentally.
They're Army.
They're not National Guard.
Right.
Wow.
When did that change?
According to everybody I've talked to,
that's National Guard.
Uh, yeah.
That's what everybody had been assuming.
Mm-hmm.
I looked at the insignia,
and I said,
you guys are regular Army?
Mm-hmm.
Well...
So the Army has been moved
into the streets of New York?
Uh, no.
Into the subway.
Yeah, but, you know,
they have to get to the subway.
They may have been lying to me,
but they're wearing Army insignia.
Yeah, not National Guard insignia.
Maybe they're wearing uniforms.
Maybe they're Iraqis
wearing our uniforms or something.
No.
What happens is that
there's two National Guards.
Uh, there's the U.S. Air Force National Guard,
and there's the U.S. Army National Guard.
Mm-hmm.
So the National Guard
wears, uh, U.S. Army uniforms.
I've understand by accident
because, um,
my friend wanted to join
the military,
and he was investigating
all the different agencies,
and that was one weird thing
that popped up.
I'm-I'm wondering
if any of our listeners
have seen these, um,
these folks,
whatever branch of the military
they're from,
actually stop terrorism
or-or any crime
or-or do something
besides frighten people.
I haven't seen them
interact with anybody
except themselves,
but I have not seen them
talk to anybody
or anybody try to talk...
I mean,
everyone's scared to death
of them.
I've seen occasional people
go up and try to talk
to them,
but I haven't seen
them talk to anybody
except themselves.
I've seen people go up
and try to talk to them,
and they-they grunt
like they did with me.
But I-I want to know
if anyone has seen them
approach someone,
if they have initiated
an interaction,
if they've stopped someone
from doing something,
if-if they're...
Have you seen them
poking a garbage can?
Anything.
If you're one of them
yourselves.
Yeah, give us a call.
Probably not on duty now.
Put down the gun
and call us.
We did, uh,
we did receive an e-mail,
uh, sometime after
September 11th,
uh, later that year.
Uh-huh.
And, uh,
she was, uh,
very-very slim,
and she said that
in the airports,
the, uh,
National Guard people
that had M-16s
didn't have any ammunition.
Uh, right.
I remember you
mentioning that
quite some time ago.
Yeah, uh...
Well, that could always change,
and they wouldn't tell us,
so you don't really know.
Oh, you never know.
I'm just saying that
that was, you know,
a year and a half ago,
somebody who was
with the National Guard
said to us,
or said they were
with the National Guard,
said to us that
they don't-they don't
have live ammunition
with them.
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Then we'll never be deported
It's the case
Are you nutty?
Then we'll never be deported
Just take a look around you
What do you see?
Kids with feelings
Like you and me
Understand him
He'll understand you
You are him
And he is you
It's the case
Are you nutty?
Then we'll never be deported
It's the case
Are you nutty?
Here, visualize
And remember the sounds of black cinema
Coming to a theater in your mind
Is black cinema soul
An exploration into blaxploitation
Catch the sounds of black cinema soul
As presented by the Midnight Ravers
On Friday, April 4th, 2003
From 12 midnight to 3 am
On WBAI 99.5 FM in New York
Join the Midnight Ravers
April 4th, 2003
And experience black cinema soul
The music of the genre known as blaxploitation
Right here at midnight on 99.5 FM WBAI
The Midnight Ravers
Where every show is a special
Occupying armies
Occupying armies
We believe that as a people living in the United States
It is our responsibility to resist
The injustices done by our government in our name
Raise our voices again in Washington
Saturday, April 12th
Stop the war on drugs
Saturday, April 12th
Come to Washington DC
Surround the White House
We could be spending this money on schools, on hospitals, on healthcare
Come to Washington DC
Saturday, April 12th
Business as usual
For more information, call Answer Coalition
212-633-6646
BANG OUR TRUMP CALL