You've got to maintain it, you've got to change the oil, you've got to put a little money
in it.
Same thing here, we need to maintain the radio station so it performs for us just like this
past weekend.
Yeah, that's right.
You know, imagine if we, you know, weren't around for that, if we were, you know, playing
canned music or something, it would have made a real difference, a big difference in the
way things went.
Radio can be a very useful tool, that's why, you know, it's always the first thing to be
controlled when governments change or whenever something bad is happening.
So please make that phone call, 202-209-2950.
Let's go into some other stories that have been happening in the time.
We haven't been on last week, in fact, we won't be on next week either.
I should point out, though, that there's an additional radio program now that we just
started yesterday on a different radio station, WUSB in Stony Brook, called Off the Wall.
Yeah, it's sort of like an expansion of Off the Hook, but not tied necessarily to technology.
You can listen to that, in fact, you can listen to last night's episode on the internet right
now, well, not right now, but after we're off the air.
And that's at www.2600.com, or you can tune in to WUSB, which is 90.1 FM in Stony Brook,
New York on Long Island.
Jens, we set that up pretty quickly as well, another web streaming deal there.
Yeah, one of the people who helps us out, Brilden, he does one of the extra servers
just for this show, he picked up and basically re-broadcast the stream from WUSB's stream.
And we had a lot of people listening, we had a lot of people from around the world, we
got a call from England, in fact, and it's really cool to be able to merge these technologies
together, radio and internet, and just bringing all these people that never would have communicated
otherwise.
So it's really a cool thing.
So that's an indication of how we're starting new things, trying out new venues, and things
like that.
So we won't be on Off the Hook next week, but Off the Wall we'll be on next Tuesday,
so hopefully we'll be on every week in some context.
It's not the same show, it's different, but it's still a voice for listeners.
All right, so what other stories have been going on around the world?
We have, well, Sarah, we have some interesting pieces on the website this week.
Well, sure.
What's probably the most outrageous one?
Well, there's this American journalist named Brian McWilliams who managed to fool not only
his fellow journalists, but to fool the NIPC.
What's the NIPC?
It's the National Infrastructure Protection Center.
Oh, that sounds important.
And they're the ones who released that new National Strategy to Secure Cyberspace, which
was just released this past weekend.
They're supposed to be sort of our first line of defense against all of these cyber attacks
that, although we've never actually seen one happen, I don't think, are obviously a tremendous
threat to all of us.
And what this reporter did was he registered a domain name, HarkatulMujahideen.org.
And HarkatulMujahideen is a well-known terrorist group.
They've been around for many, many years and been involved in all sorts of real terrorist
events all over the world.
But they neglected to register their website.
Right, of course.
And so he registered this domain name last year in an attempt to attract terrorists,
real terrorists, to email him as part of a long-term investigation he was doing.
And ultimately he hoped that it would culminate in an article where he would have all sorts
of inside information or insight into how these people operate.
And he went relatively undetected until just recently.
And the reason that he was detected was because he kind of took things one step further.
He claimed that his group was responsible for the slammer worm, which for those who
don't know was the worm that really slowed down the internet for a day or so recently,
attacking a Microsoft SQL server.
And so he said that his group was responsible for the worm and he presented some dubious
evidence to back that up.
And all sorts of people jumped on the story.
And the NIPC got involved.
And from examining his website and examining these emails that he was sending to these
reporters, they determined that he was the real deal, that he really was a representative
of Harkat al-Mujahideen.
Now this is despite the fact that the group is located abroad, yet the emails from this
reporter who was claiming to be somebody named Abu Mujahid were coming from America.
Now you see an email coming from America, from somebody claiming to be in Pakistan,
you've got to think twice about that, but they didn't.
So what was the effect?
What wound up happening?
Well the effect was that an article was published in Computer World saying basically that this
terrorist group was responsible for this internet worm.
And of course it was realized somewhat quickly after that, people realized how ridiculous
it was that it wasn't true and they pulled down the story, though we still have it on
our website.
Now that's interesting how stories just get eliminated when they realize that it's not
quite true.
It just never happened.
Now I bet if you contact Computer World and ask them, you know, what about this story?
What story?
There's no story?
There never was a story.
We've got the story on our website, which I think is pretty funny.
That was a cool story.
There was another one, though, about an 11-year-old kid.
Tell us what happened with this, 11-year-old hacker kid.
We've gotten tremendous feedback for this one.
This young boy, whose name still hasn't been released, but he's an 11-year-old student
at a school called St. Lucie West Middle School, which is in Florida.
And this kid, like so many other kids who I've known, including myself, tried to mess
with school computers.
He tried to change his grades.
And you know, this is the kind of testing of boundaries that kids do.
This is the way you learn right from wrong what the boundaries are of the authority figures
around you and what they will or won't permit.
And so, I mean, you know, it's sort of sad.
You can really see him doing it.
Apparently, he came up with some sort of fib that he had to go back and pick up his lunch
or something like that and instead sat down at his teacher's computer and tried to change
his grades.
Was he successful in changing the grade?
Yes.
He was successful?
He was, though, I mean, obviously not in the long term.
What did he change it to?
I followed this quite a bit, being an educator myself, and as it turns out, another teacher
had seen him at the computer, and when he seemed guilty of something, they investigated
and found what he had done.
He had changed some reading grades.
And they, I mean, as I said, even in my position, I think they, you're going to go on to the
future.
Well, yeah, what did they do to this kid?
Well, they really went beyond what anybody might expect.
They have charged them with a felony.
The felony is an offense to intellectual property, which is some sort of state law
in Florida.
And they brought him to the county jail, where he was eventually transferred to the custody
of his father.
But they're really taking a hard line with this kid.
The principal of the school, whose name is Helen Roberts, has recommended that the boy
be expelled from the school.
Unbelievable.
An assistant state attorney in Florida named Helen Mancini called the boy's actions a scheme
to defraud.
She said, it's as much a fraud as anything else.
You know, I only wish Bernie S. was here, because he could tell us all kinds of perspective
as to people just don't understand technology.
It's too bad I'm not here.
Hey, how'd you do that, Bernie?
Wow, you suddenly popped into our board.
Just jumped off the train.
Jumped off the train and into the BAI mixing board here.
You heard that story then?
Yeah.
It's amazing.
I was trying to wrap my head around the whole intellectual property issue.
What was intellectual property here that was claimed to have been stolen or violated?
Offended, actually.
What's that?
Offended.
Offended?
Offended.
Offense to intellectual property is what they call it in this law.
It's offense to my intellect, I'll tell you that right now.
Was it a letter?
No, no.
I can help you.
The letter C was changed to an A, and that was an offense to intellectual property.
Jeff has an answer.
What's the answer to this?
The grade book of a teacher is considered a legal document.
Anytime anything gets tested, the grade book becomes what you measure everything by.
From the standpoint that they are treating this as an intellectual property, I can understand
that does carry a lot of weight.
It is an important document.
I'll give it that.
But to treat a child, 11-year-old individual, with those kind of penalties and fines and
punishments, in my opinion, it goes way too far.
This has generated a lot of interest among our readers.
One person actually sent us a copy, actually a few people wrote the principal some letters
and sent us copies, but this one I thought was particularly good.
It starts, Hello, Ms. Helen Roberts, which is the name of the principal down there.
I think it was probably easy for people to find out all this information because we linked
directly to the elementary school website, don't we, sir?
Yes, we did.
Yeah, it's quite a website it is, too.
That's probably an offense to intellectual property right there.
I cannot believe that you suggested that the 11-year-old student that tried to change his
grades be expelled from your school.
Maybe you should think that this is not totally the student's fault.
Maybe you should think that your lack of understanding of security in the computer section and in
technology in general may be the problem in itself.
Students learn by example, and if your administration understood this technology, maybe you would
have put emphasis on securing what needs to be secure and not running your grade servers
on the open land in your school where students may gain access to it.
If you read your Security for Dummies book, you will see that the best way to keep something
secure is to not provide ways for people to gain access to it.
If this student gets expelled because of your incompetence, I feel that maybe the American
public should look to privately funded institutions to train the minds of tomorrow and not to
the obviously hurting public system.
As I can see, your personal office computer, the Dell GX150, is very insecure in itself.
You might at least want to secure the principal's system before you take a look at your entire network.
Signed, the concerned technician.
That hurts.
I think it's brilliant.
I mean, yeah.
Show people exactly what it is that their weaknesses are.
It's absurd that somebody has to suffer like this.
And the sad part of this is that this middle school is rated as one of the quote-unquote
most wired schools in the country.
But they fail to set any sort of example as to how to treat the technology, how to treat
people's use of it.
They may have a lot of computers.
They may have a big network.
But what are they doing with it?
I think we need to look at that before we tell somebody that their school sets an example
for technology.
Absolutely.
So that's the kind of craziness that's going on in the world out there.
And that's the kind of thing you have to look forward to.
Please give us a call, 212-209-2950.
Pledge your support to the radio station.
Up to $2,000.
Well, that's good.
That's good.
Hopefully they're still counting down there because that seems like an awfully round number.
But let's keep those calls coming in because it really should be...
I think our goal is around $5,000, isn't it, for the entire two-hour period?
That's what they expect of us.
That's what I expect of us.
No one's calling.
No one's calling.
What's wrong with the phones?
212-209-2950.
Do you know that the police actually were caught cutting our phone wires at the demonstration?
Did you hear about this?
No.
Yeah, there was a Democracy Now! broadcast going on,
which I actually saw on Manhattan Neighborhood Network, which was really cool,
being able to actually see the demonstration on TV.
And I found out later that the police were seen cutting the phone lines leading to the broadcast.
Now, this is the kind of thing that goes on in other countries in our minds.
We don't think that kind of thing happens here.
But you know what?
It does happen here.
It does happen when the media is not respected.
And by media, I don't mean NBC, CBS, all those people that do the same thing over and over again.
I mean people that actually broadcast information that may not be convenient to the powers that be.
That's why it's important to give a call.
212-209-2950.
We have two different pledge categories.
We have the $75 pledge category and the $125 pledge category.
For $75, you get that.
Bernie, have you heard about this?
The brand new Off the Hook T-shirt.
Oh, I heard a rumor to that effect.
Yeah, the rumor was circulating.
And we had to quash the rumor, and then we had to admit to it.
That's the way it works.
Did he have a vision of the shirt, too?
Yeah, Jim had some kind of psychedelic vision of the shirt.
No, no, it wasn't psychedelic.
It was more like a vision quest, sort of like my American Indian roots, of which I have none.
That should give you an idea of what the vision was like.
Yeah, Off the Hook T-shirts.
We don't quite know what they're going to look like yet.
Jeff is one of the main people behind that, and he's got a glint in his eye.
So I imagine it's going to be pretty damn cool.
And in addition to that, yes, there's more.
You get either Freedom Downtime, a film that you're in, Bernie.
Uh-oh.
Yeah, well, you've seen it.
Or a one-year subscription to 2600 Magazine, the Hacker Quarterly,
the magazine that deals with all these issues and has been doing so since 1984.
If you've never seen a copy, well, you owe it to yourself to at least see what it's all about.
So you have a choice of those two items for that pledge of $75 in addition to the T-shirt, the Off the Hook T-shirt.
Just simply indicate to the person when you call in which one you want.
Now, for a pledge of 125, $125, you'll get the brand-new, and Bernie, you'll be excited by this too,
brand-new 2600 hooded sweatshirt.
That is exciting.
That is very exciting.
At first.
I imagine all kinds of people are taking note of the fact that these will be on the street,
and people will be walking around with these brand-new concoctions.
In addition to the hooded sweatshirt, which is no cheap thing to produce, let me tell you right now,
that's why it's part of the more expensive package.
In addition to that, you get both the subscription to 2600 and Freedom Downtime,
the documentary about Kevin Mitnick, the Free Kevin Movement, the Hacker World, and all kinds of other things.
And that in itself, I think, is definitely worth getting excited over if you know those things are hitting your way.
212-209-2950.
Apparently not enough people agree, though, because we have no calls on the line.
Not to mention the sheer pleasure of giving those poor volunteers something to do.
Yeah, we have at least ten volunteers down there.
It was down there before, and it was a crowded room full of people.
And, you know, we don't want them to break out the card deck again and start playing all those games.
We want them to be busy.
I mean, they get angry at us later when they're out of breath and everything like that,
and they have to answer all these phones.
But, you know, after a few weeks go by, the tension sort of subsides a bit,
and everybody's happy that we were able to make the fun drive a success.
And the goal for the fun drive, this particular one, is I think $1.2 million.
It's a staggering amount of money.
It sounds that way.
But we're going to make it because of people like you who listen to the radio station
and pledge what you can afford.
And, you know, it all adds up.
If you saw what happened on Saturday, if you saw all the people on the street,
not just in New York but around the world, the millions and millions of people that took part in this,
you realize that each one of those people added to the total number.
And the total number may have been enough to actually stop something really horrible from happening in the world.
I mean, I really think there's a good chance now.
How can a war start now with all this opposition to it?
You know, it's really going to be something if that's just ignored and they just go ahead anyway.
I really think they're going to be on the defensive.
But each individual person made a decision to be there, made a decision to, you know,
it's always taking a risk of some sort to go to a demonstration or a rally.
You don't know how the cops are going to react.
And the sum of the total was something simply unbelievable.
That's what we're asking you to be a part of right now, 212-209-2950.
By calling up, pledging your support to the radio station, you'll be a part of a really great total,
really more than $2,000, hopefully, which is where we seem to be stuck at right now.
Well, it's not going to be more if people don't call.
That's right.
Maybe the police have cut these phone lines, too.
You know, it's possible.
I don't know.
They seem to like to do that.
But let's assume they didn't.
212-209-2950 is the number to call to pledge to the radio station.
Keep us going.
Keep this show on the air.
Keep alternative thought from disappearing entirely.
I just want to mention that we take Visa, MasterCard, American Express, money orders, and checks.
That's right.
And cash, too.
But don't send cash in the mail.
Just walk in.
Walk in and hand it to us.
That's probably not the best way to do it.
People have done it in the past.
Unmarked bills.
People have done it in the past.
People have come with coin jars.
That's how much this place means to them.
And I know this place means a lot to a lot of people because I've seen them show up in winter's past,
outside on Wall Street to rally to save the radio station from hostile forces.
And, you know, that kind of thing could happen again.
And if it does, it's always nice to be strong, to not be, you know, having to scrounge around to figure out how to put things together.
It affects the on-air quality.
It affects what we can do.
It affects our flexibility.
And that's why it's very important for us to maintain that strength because there's going to be a lot of adversity ahead, you know.
And I don't think it's going to be coming from within anymore.
I think a lot of it's going to be coming from outside forces.
Basically, think the 1950s.
Think the, you know, the Red Scare.
Multiply that.
Add in all the technology that's been invented since then.
And you're going to have some pretty effective ways of keeping people down, keeping people quiet.
And believe me, this radio station is a big obstacle.
It's a big, you know, threat to people that want to control the way people think and talk and act.
This place, as long as it's here, will continue to do things like we did on Saturday, like we do every day, but only with your support.
202-209-2950.
That was enough to get one phone call.
You see how much work it takes to get one phone call?
We need ten phone calls.
Not kidding.
You know what?
People are really concerned about where they put their money lately and rightfully so between people who invested in Enron and lost all sorts of money that way.
And you hear all sorts of things about various not-for-profit organizations that are supposed to be helping people in this or that country and how the money isn't really going there.
WBAI is one of the probably best places that you can put your money, one of the best investments that you can make, because you're investing in educating yourself, educating people in your community about what's really going on in this day and age.
And it's more important now than ever to know what's going on.
And you hear people say that on the major news media, but they mean something different than we do.
We're not talking about hearing the latest blather about where our latest troop buildups are in Iraq or things like that.
We're talking about what the government is up to, what community organizations are up to, what's going on that's really going to affect your world in the near term, not just some far-off place.
And we don't spend this money putting people on vacations or things like that.
You can really come to this radio station, and we could show you where the money is going.
It's going to keep this place running, and it's an important thing to do.
Yeah, and for those of you who think that when I was away for six weeks, that was a radio station thing.
No, that's something we do out of our own pockets.
When we decide to go on the road and make documentaries or do anything else, it's all independent projects.
What we have here is a voice for people to share experiences and things like that.
None of us get paid to do radio every week.
We just do it because we love to do it.
And the same thing for just about all the projects we're involved in.
It's something that needs to be done.
And they should know that the radio station does not pay $2,600 for those shirts and those tapes.
That's right.
All the money goes to the work here.
100%.
Now, Seraf, you got a phone call for that little spiel, so congratulations.
Now, Bernie, I believe you can probably get a handful of phone calls by telling us what the radio station means to you.
I was just going to ask how I can pledge on the air without losing this phone connection.
Well, that's going to be difficult.
You'll probably have to use the three-way function on your phone, but then we'll hear all your credit card information.
So we don't want to do that.
Why don't you—
I can do it on his behalf.
Okay.
Jeff will take all your information from you.
I can.
Which level did you want?
What were the levels again?
$75 and $125.
$75, you'll get the off-the-hook T-shirt.
For $125, you'll get the $2,600 hooded sweatshirt, plus other items as well, such as freedom downtime and the subscription to $2,600.
I want the hooded sweatshirt.
And more importantly, I want to support this radio show because it's meant an awful lot to me, and I know it's meant an awful lot to a lot of other people as well.
So besides, I would really like a piece of $2,600 attire that's warm.
Yeah, okay.
No, that's a good point.
We've only produced T-shirts in the past, and now we're branching out into winter wear.
I guess some of the weather we've had this past winter has been inspiration for that.
But people can wear hooded sweatshirts year-round.
In fact, some people even wear them to bed.
It's the kind of clothing you can never grow tired of, although other people might.
But if you wear it, it can become a part of you.
I haven't heard the telephone number people should call.
212-209-2950.
But Bernie, I'd like for you to tell us.
I know you've told us this in the past, but we always get new listeners.
What difference has this radio station made in your life in past years?
Well, it had a very personal meaning to me a few years ago.
It resulted in my—this radio program resulted in my freedom a few years ago
when I was being held—geez, I think it was 14 months in all.
I was held in five different prisons for an offense which the government admitted
there were no victims involved, and it just pertained to possessing, not using,
just possessing certain technology pertaining to telecommunications access.
And were it not for this show and a real rallying of people listening to my plight
over the months, months and months, who made a lot of phone calls on my behalf
hearing about my situation, I am certain that I would not have been released when I was.
So it's something I'm never going to forget the rest of my life,
that this very radio show made a real difference, not just in my life,
I'm sure in other people's lives, too.
But it's something I'll carry around with me the rest of my life,
and it was just the emotional support I got from people writing me,
hearing me on the air, kept me going through that whole ordeal,
and other people as well, I'm sure.
So I owe an incalculable debt of gratitude to this show and to 2600 Magazine
for keeping people aware of injustices, and there's plenty to go around.
Mine was hardly unique.
Mine was just well-known because of this show,
so I felt very fortunate to have had access to the media this way.
Well, the unfortunate part is that, yes, there will be additional stories like yours,
maybe even worse.
And I'm really afraid of what's going to happen to people
who are in situations like that with all these new draconian laws.
In fact, we want to talk about Patriot, too, in just a moment.
A voice like WBAI's is so incredibly vital, it may be even more vital in the future
when people are in prison for much more minor offenses,
when they face all kinds of things like life imprisonment for nonviolent offenses
or all kinds of scariness that's ahead, all in the interest of national security
and the fight against terrorism and all that.
Who is going to broadcast this information?
Do you think Fox is going to do it?
I don't think so.
I don't think they're going to take any interest in that whatsoever.
If someone is, in their eyes, guilty of a crime, they don't deserve anything.
They don't deserve any kind of consideration or treatment, a human being.
They basically will just ignore the story.
And without a place like this, a lot of people are just going to disappear into the system.
And this goes beyond the hacker world.
The hacker world is only one element of society that's feeling this right now.
There are so many other groups of people that are kind of uniting in outrage,
and that's what we're seeing a reaction to day by day.
But it's the radio station here that brings all these voices together.
It would be a different world around here without it.
It certainly would be, and a much scarier world.
So please keep all that in mind
and think about what you can afford to pledge to the radio station,
what it means to you.
If I had the money, I would be pledging many times more what the pledge level was,
because this place is something that I really believe in,
and I know the people here really believe in it.
And it's an inspiration.
Traveling around the country, I stopped at KPFK in Los Angeles.
I was very happy to see that station has rebounded and has spirit again,
because I saw it once before when it didn't.
But apart from those few bastions of sanity and individual thought
and all kinds of alternative ideas,
apart from that, there's a lot of blandness out there,
and people don't realize that there's no alternative.
They get used to it.
And if they do that, it's really, really sad.
There's no future. There's no hope.
So BAI, its quest for peace and justice,
I think brings people a lot of hope as well.
212-209-2950, that's the number to call to pledge.
Just to tie back to the beginning of the show,
you can easily spend $75 on duct tape and plastic sheeting,
which may or may not work, and you may or may not be home to even use it.
Or you can pledge $75 to WBAI
and probably do a whole lot better for the world and your community,
and even yourself.
Once again, our number here is 212-209-2950.
Any amount is useful.
$75 gets you the upcoming T-shirt for the Off the Hook show.
And a subscription or video.
And a subscription or video, yes.
And $125 gets you the T-shirt.
That's right.
You mean hooded sweatshirt.
I'm sorry.
The hooded sweatshirt, yes.
Hooded sweatshirt.
We're not very good at this, because we're not salesmen here.
It's really hard to pitch our wares like this,
but it's essential.
It has to be done.
If we don't do this, we have one of two choices.
Either we give the station to somebody else,
or we run commercials, and then we become somebody else.
And I don't think either of those is a good opportunity for freedom of speech.
I have a question.
Yes.
What if you only listen to Off the Hook?
If you only listen to Off the Hook, this is your only chance,
because we're not going to be on next week.
And the next time we're on, it won't be the fundraiser.
And if you listen to this show on the Internet afterwards,
well, you know, we're not live.
When you listen to us afterwards, we're live now, right now,
at 825 p.m. on Wednesday, February.
All right.
I'm lost.
Where am I?
February 19th.
19th.
Thank you.
2003.
If that correlates to the time that you're in right now, Eastern Time,
that means you're listening to us live.
That means you can call us now,
and you won't be able to do that in 35 minutes,
because we won't be live anymore.
We won't be alive, but we won't be live here in the studio.
212-209-2950 is our phone number.
We have four calls on the line.
Bernie, you brought in quite a few calls before,
which I want to thank you for.
I'm amazed, but whatever works, you know?
And we also want to ask anyone that called already to get us up to where we are now,
we want to say thank you,
and we'd like to ask you to call your friends to actually let them know that we're on now
and that these premiums are available.
Yeah.
212-209-2950,
and we have two levels of premiums for off the hook,
but there's many, many other premiums that,
if for some reason you don't want those ones,
you can ask our tally people who pick up the phone when you call them.
You can ask them about those,
or you can pledge something else just to benefit the radio station,
because that's what it's all about, you know?
And I really hope people aren't just calling just to get things, you know, in the mail.
I mean, it's cool to do that, but your real motivation,
your real motivation should be the radio station itself to, you know,
to help out, to keep us going.
WBEI also offers some specific stuff like a hat, like a cap.
It's a baseball cap with WBEI written on it,
a T-shirt that also says WBEI on it,
a tote bag, and a coffee mug,
which some people here really love.
And, yeah, so I think we should be talking about the Patriot 2.
Patriot 2, yeah.
We have seven calls on the line,
so I want to thank those people for calling in.
And you know it's only three calls away from ten,
which is the number I've been bandying about all night.
It's just good to see ten calls, because we have ten people down there, ten volunteers.
If ten calls aren't on the line, that means three people
who can't get to the phones as quickly as the other volunteers
aren't getting calls, and then they get very sad,
and it just sort of ruins their whole day.
So seven calls on the line right now,
another three, and everybody in that room is occupied.
And happy.
And happy. And we have people to thank.
Okay, we're going to thank some people.
Remember, first names only.
And we don't read the street addresses or phone numbers of the people.
Spread them out.
These are people who have pledged so far.
We should caution the people in the studio
that these cards are not sorted,
so we have to make sure that the yes box is checked
in the read on air category.
Maybe they should only give us the ones that say read on air to bring down here.
They're hurried. They're in a rush.
Well, that's good. We like it busy down there.
212-209-2950.
So we want to thank Daniel from Rego Park, New York.
We don't want to thank this person.
Well, we do.
Well, we thank all the people that don't want to be thanked publicly.
In fact, those are the people that really are, you know,
they don't want to know, they want us to know who they are.
They just want to help, and I respect that a lot.
We want to thank Clinton from Oak Ridge, New Jersey,
and Jesse from Brooklyn,
and Michael from...
I can't pronounce this. What do you think it says?
Hopatcong.
Hopatcong, New Jersey.
If we pronounce that wrong, we thank you all the more for your forgiveness.
We'd like to thank Elizabeth from Wilton, Connecticut.
And, yeah, so those are the ones in my pile.
Are we allowed to say anonymous in the city?
Was that acceptable?
We'd like to thank anonymous from Connecticut.
I'm not going to name the town. I don't know how big it is.
He may be the only listener there, and he'll be outed.
And we'd like to thank someone anonymous in Brooklyn.
And we'd like to thank... Oh, it's a read on air.
We'd like to thank Marianne from Montclair, New Jersey.
Is it Montclair?
Montclair.
Well, they have an empty period.
Unless there is a Mount... It could be Mount Craig. I don't know.
Well, hopefully the person that types it in will know.
I'm sure the zip code will...
Well, I won't read the zip code.
Maybe we should only read the zip code.
That's an idea.
Well, this person doesn't have a yes or no thing checked off,
so I'll just read the location, which is Brooklyn 11224.
Thank you for clicking.
Yes, thanks for that generous support there, 11224.
That's a lot of money, 11224.
We might as well just start addressing everybody as numbers now,
because that's what it's going to turn into pretty soon.
I am not a number. I am a free man.
I've got a couple here.
All right.
We want to thank Bob from Stockton, New Jersey.
Doreen from Glen Rock. I used to live there.
This is both New Jersey?
Yeah.
Wow.
I get all the Jersey ones.
Uh-huh.
Felix from New York, New York.
Uh-huh.
We've got Joanne from Summit, New Jersey,
and Richard from Brick, New Jersey.
This is a New Jersey night, isn't it?
Heavily.
Wow.
Well, folks out there who aren't in New Jersey,
not that I'm saying people from New Jersey shouldn't call,
but I know people listen from all over the world.
I didn't hear anything from outside the country.
No?
No.
And I didn't hear very many from outside the tri-state area.
I did have one from, well, no, it was not, I'm sorry,
it wasn't outside the country.
All right.
It was far away.
Well, please, give us a call.
You can call no matter where you are,
as long as you're listening to us live.
212-209-2950 is our phone number.
And Kevin Mitnick joins us now on the phone.
Kevin, you there?
Hi, Manuel.
How you doing?
How you doing?
I'm doing good.
Well, it's great to hear your voice again.
You were on CNN today.
I happened to catch you by accident.
Yeah, that was kind of ironic.
They called me at the last minute because they wanted to talk to somebody,
I guess, who, you know, was a hacker before about this, you know,
this big story about 8 million credit card numbers were compromised
at that credit card processing company in Nebraska.
So they were talking to me about it, but it was kind of weird
because in the middle of making a point about, you know, recurring billing,
you know how that works?
Like you sign up for these services on the Internet.
Yes.
And then you agree that, you know, they'll bill your credit card once a month,
and then 60% of the populace, you know, doesn't ever cancel it.
So even though you don't use the service anymore, you're still being billed for it.
Right, right.
And I was trying to make the point that probably a lot of these credit card companies
do not, you know, want to bring people's attention to that fact,
and that's maybe why they're not disclosing the name of the credit card processor
because everybody would be looking for that name.
But apparently a rumor was that this processor actually processes, like,
those adult-type services.
So I was making that point, and it was, like, cut off.
And I don't know if it was a technical error or if it was intentional.
It was weird.
It was the first time it happened ever.
I think it was you fell victim to commercial media because it was, I think,
2.59 p.m. on the East Coast, and they, of course,
couldn't let somebody talk until 3 o'clock.
They had to take their break.
They had to, you know, sell commercials.
And even though you were making a really, really good point,
one that I was fascinated by because, yes, that's absolutely true.
That's what happens with credit cards.
They would not let you finish.
And, you know, it's not just people in the hacker community.
I've seen them do this to, you know, world leaders as well.
It's like, well, we only have two seconds to answer this question.
Will there be a war tomorrow?
And then they're off to the commercial.
That's what really matters to them.
That's the important thing.
Yeah, I guess they call it a hard break.
Yeah, it was a hard break, all right.
Or a hard wrap.
It was a real hard wrap.
It was a real hard wrap, definitely, definitely.
But I think you got the point across.
And I think, you know, in this particular case, this story,
which we haven't talked about, where a, quote, unquote,
hacker, you know, got millions of credit card numbers,
they don't say how they know this,
and they won't reveal the name of the company.
Oh, I know the name of the company.
They released it on the wire.
Oh, did they?
So which company is it?
God, it's some obscure name, and I had it written down.
I can tell you in a second, because it's kind of ironic,
because the guy that told me the name of the company
was none other than Louis DePayne.
Oh, Louis DePayne, wow.
Yeah, he sent me an email, and he said, let's see,
I'm looking at it.
For those of you who saw the awful film,
I'm sorry, for those of you who saw the awful film,
Takedown, that's, Louis DePayne was your cohort in that film.
Right.
Yeah, I'm sorry, what was the name of the company?
Data Processors International, DPI.
I never even heard of it.
Well, they all have names like that.
We use a company like that ourselves,
because we have an online store,
so everybody who takes credit card numbers over the Internet
has to have some bank process them,
and there's a lot of credit card numbers
that go through these companies,
so obviously they're going to be pretty embarrassed
that they were wide open
and let all these people's information go through.
So, well, it's good that the information finally got out.
Also, a funny thing about CNN is,
I was watching it at 2 a.m.,
and what they do is they show reruns
of what they showed in the morning.
Well, they show Larry King live three times.
Yeah, and at night, they could just play European news,
which are never covered in the U.S.
They used to do that.
They used to play international news.
But that only happened after September 11,
and that was happening from only about like two months,
and then they went back to reruns.
Well, if you're lucky enough to get a channel
called CNN International, they actually do that,
and it's much more intelligent,
and they treat people like they have a brain,
and, of course, you don't get that channel
anywhere in this country.
On the weekend, you get it on the same channel
that CNN Financial News is on,
but that's only two days a week.
Now, Kevin, first of all,
I'd like you to just say a couple of words
about the radio station,
just so we can get some more people calling in,
and then we have a story involving you as well,
and we also want to talk about Patriot, too.
Right, well...
So perhaps you could just get people to call us
and pledge to this radio station, because it's...
I believe WBA, or Pacifica Radio,
serves the public,
and I know that Emmanuel has really gotten the word out
about my case and my trials and tribulations
in large part through WBAI,
so I really am a supporter,
and I hope that other people out there in the community
also will support WBAI.
In fact, I remember I donated several books,
one book I wrote, The Art of Deception,
and we raised some money with that.
We raised a good amount.
In fact, that was the last fundraiser,
where you were here,
Kevin spent a good hour and a half afterwards
just signing books,
because that was the premium then,
and it was great.
It was just great seeing all the activities,
seeing all the interest that there was,
and that helped build the station
to the point where we could do what we did on Saturday,
where we could do all kinds of great programming
and just keep going.
We need to replenish that every now and then,
three times a year is basically what it takes
to keep this place going with no commercials,
so that's why it's so vital that you show your support
and basically make a vote,
make an investment in this place
so that we can keep on going.
212-209-2950 is our phone number,
and it's...
Well, Kevin, now, you have...
I should point out, Bernie S. is on the line, too.
You guys met on the phone.
We can actually legally speak to each other now,
so that's great.
A couple of weeks ago, I was out somewhere,
I think in California,
and you two were on the phone for the first time
on the radio station.
It was really cool getting everybody together.
Hey, Emmanuel, just in...
Because I know you guys have, what,
about 25 minutes left of airtime?
Yeah.
I'll tell you what.
If you want, I'll donate five books to WBAI now,
so if you want to auction those off on the air now
for contributions,
I will contribute five books so you can do that.
Well, okay, we'll figure out a way to do that.
I don't know...
I can run back and tell them.
Well, it's a little bit more bureaucratic than that.
It's got to be approved by the tally people,
not by the person in charge of premium.
So if there's somebody back there that can do that
and approve this,
we can maybe set something up in 25 minutes.
Otherwise, if we can't,
we'll certainly hold over until the next fundraiser
and do something with it then.
But thanks, Kevin.
Thanks so much for your generosity there.
And by the way, hi, Bernie.
And by the way, Emmanuel,
another interesting note is,
you know I started Defensive Thinking,
a new security company,
and of course I'm sure everybody's heard the news
that someone had exploited a vulnerability in Microsoft IIS
and was able to upload a file.
And then they posted a link to this in a form that we have
and then sent it to the media.
And it was kind of funny
because I had no direct dealings with this particular server,
but people thought that
since it was Kevin Mitnick's company
that that would be a good thing to hack
to become king of the hill.
But what's more interesting is
our website has been under denial-of-service attack
for the last couple days.
Really?
Yeah, so somebody has really...
I think they're really after the media publicity or something.
And so they've been causing some problems.
But what I'm going to do is I'm just going to,
rather than have it hosted in-house by volunteers,
I'm just going to send it over to some web hosting company.
So I'm looking for one now so they can host the site.
Well, you see, it's important to note
that people who do this,
anybody can be destructive.
Anybody can break a window.
Anybody can cause mayhem.
It doesn't take much in the way of intelligence.
And the same goes for the Internet.
It doesn't take much to knock something off the net.
It takes a lot to build something, though.
And that's where I think real hacking comes in,
is building something,
is discovering things, designing things.
So if somebody out there is under the mistaken belief
that by taking down Kevin's website
you're somehow the king of the hacker world,
no, it doesn't work that way.
It does not work that way at all.
More likely you're just somebody that can't deal
with different thoughts and opinions
and feel threatened by anything having to do with that.
Kevin, if you need help with, you know,
tracking it down or stopping it or something like that,
I'm sure there's many people here
that will write in to help out with that.
You know, what was interesting is that UUNet,
who was the provider of the company's bandwidth
that we were using,
because it wasn't defensive thinking,
it was the building that we're in.
It's their services provided by UUNet.
And UUNet actually, the attack was so significant
they actually had to block,
they actually had difficulty stopping the attack at the upstream.
There was like one or two machines
that was doing what they call a thin attack at port 80.
And it's kind of interesting because port 80
is usually a port that you want to have open.
Usually if they do it to another port,
you can just close the port
and that's a good way to minimize the attack.
So UUNet actually, it affected that.
So it was kind of interesting.
Well, now we have a limited amount of time,
so let's quickly talk about what we'd like to do with you, Kevin.
And then we're going to get into,
we've been promoting this all night, Patriot 2.
But Kevin, now you've been,
you were basically finally freed from the restrictions
that you were under for the last three years.
January 21st, I believe.
You were allowed to use the internet.
You were allowed to talk to people like Bernie S.
And it's great that you're able to really be free,
as much as freedom means these days.
That's a good point.
Yeah.
One thing that we've been toying with,
the idea that something we'd like to do
that's perhaps a bit more fun
is to have a celebration of sorts.
Tell us something about what you'd like to do, Kevin.
I would definitely like,
I'd like to throw a party where everybody is invited.
And I don't know where the proper venue would be
because there's an issue of the expense of traveling.
And I was either thinking of throwing it,
having it in New York where 2600 is,
or having it in Las Vegas where my family is.
But trying to coordinate it with another event
that computer enthusiasts travel to.
And the one that came to mind was DEF CON, of course,
because a lot of people travel to that
and they also travel to the conferences
that you put on, Emmanuel,
but unfortunately you're not doing one this year.
Right.
It would be perfect if one was happening this year
because then it could be simultaneous,
it could be in conjunction with that.
So what I'm hoping to do is throw a great party,
open bar, food, catered food,
and some entertainment.
Maybe we could have you as entertainment.
Well, I can be entertaining in crowds sometimes,
but I think you can probably do better.
I know there are musical groups, musicians,
all kinds of people out there
who have followed your case and supported you.
And maybe this is a good time to ask any of them,
would you be interested in being part of something like this?
All we basically need to do is cover the expense of the place
and whatever we have to do to make this happen.
We just basically don't want to lose money on it.
We want to break even.
Exactly.
That's the whole idea.
We want to either raise the funds
or set up some sort of structure
where people purchase tickets
and the whole idea is to break even.
Right.
So if someone out there knows of a place or has a place
that's big enough to hold, what do you think,
several hundred people?
You'd hope so.
Several thousand people?
You'd hope so because everybody would be invited,
friend or foe.
And the whole idea is it would be a great celebration
and a great way to network with other people.
Well, that's definitely something
that I would be interested in doing.
And if someone out there either wants to add to the program
or to the venue or something like that,
contact us, oth at 2600.com, with your ideas, thoughts.
And we'd like to do it in New York,
but if it's someplace else,
we're willing to listen to that as well.
I think it would be great fun,
and it's good to celebrate every now and then,
to sort of realize that good things are happening.
Yeah, we always talk about the horror stories
and all the things that are going bad,
so it would be actually a change of pace
to actually have a celebration.
And I think all my supporters
who have been there for me throughout the years,
it would be a great opportunity for everybody.
Yeah, absolutely.
How are you adjusting now, Kevin, to your newfound,
I guess we'll call it freedom?
I'm adjusting fine.
I've been extremely busy.
I was just in Houston for the last few days.
I was actually doing a webcast
with a company called NetIQ.
If you're interested in watching it,
you can go to their website.
It was kind of interesting.
It was talking about social engineering
and stuff like that.
And I've been pretty much being,
my livelihood has pretty much been
working with defensive thinking
and doing speaking engagements.
And I haven't really had any time
for any really free time.
And all my internet usage is really just
reading and responding to email.
Literally, my email queue is backed up
to 1,794 messages.
That's not that many.
That's not that many.
It isn't.
No, I'm over 10,000 myself.
Well, do you want an extra 1,700?
Well, not really, no.
Okay.
I want to apologize to all the people
I haven't replied to.
Within five years, I'm sure I'll get to you.
Yeah, I have to apologize too
because I remember I'm going to Poland
between March 1st and March 12th
and people were asking about
where I'm going to be talking.
I really don't have those places.
And a lot of those emails,
I couldn't even respond to
because I just don't know
at this point in time.
But I'm going to find out.
Okay.
There'll be all kinds of other possibilities
as far as places that you might be appearing.
Why not Krakow?
Yeah, I'm going to Krakow.
There you go.
How appropriate.
Okay.
Yeah.
Again, if you have ideas as to
how the Kevin Mitnick Party
can be staged here in New York or elsewhere,
please write to us, othat2600.com.
Now, to get to some of the
pre-discussed horror stories.
Sarah, if you have some information for us
on the new legislation called Patriot 2,
before we begin,
just one more appeal to people.
Please call up, show your support
so that you can continue to hear voices
like Kevin's, like Bernie's,
like ours, like yours.
At 212-209-2950,
we have two pledge levels,
$75 for a brand new off-the-hook t-shirt
and your choice of a subscription to 2600
or a Freedom Downtime video,
the film that Kevin Mitnick and Bernie Yes are in,
or 125.
You'll get a brand new 2600 hooded sweatshirt
that you can wear in any social situation
and also a videotape
and a subscription to 2600,
all three things.
The most important thing, though,
is show your support for the radio station.
Keep us going.
Keep this kind of talk on the air.
212-209-2950.
Our numbers are going up.
We're up to 3625.
That's pretty cool.
And my goal is, what, 5,000?
So that means we have to raise $1,400
in the next 14 minutes.
That's like $100 a minute.
That means we're going to have to get some calls coming in.
Let's remind people once again, too,
that really any amount helps.
Any amount helps.
And, you know, we got this high
because of all the people who called in.
You know, we started at zero,
and now we're at 3625,
which is no small bit of change,
in my world, anyway.
212-209-2950.
We have Kevin Mitnick with us.
We have Bernie Yes with us.
We have a whole cast of characters here in the studio,
and we have you, our listeners,
who are probably the most important part
of the whole thing.
212-209-2950.
Three calls on the line.
We can easily make that 10 again.
Remember, there's 10 volunteers down there,
all waiting for your call.
And this is your last chance for this radio program
because we're going off in 14 minutes,
and we won't be back until after the fundraiser is over.
Four calls on the line.
212-209-2950.
Please keep those calls coming in.
Now, let's talk about Patriot 2 and scare some people.
Oh, boy.
Well, we all know about the Patriot Act,
which is something that was created after 9-11
to supposedly enhance security in this country
against terrorism.
I have to interrupt you here.
I'm sorry.
If you read some of the Patriot Act,
you realize that this stuff was written before 9-11
and then pushed through immediately after 9-11.
How do you realize this?
Well, I mean, it's because some of the wording in this,
if you look back,
there's a huge volume of law that was passed
for the original Patriot Act,
and there's no way they would have written all this
and gotten all their I's dotted and T's crossed
in that short amount of time,
and it bore a lot of resemblance to previous legislation
that they tried to enact
and then it didn't get through or whatever.
It got held up in committee.
So this is a body of legislation,
much of which was just waiting for a good opportunity,
and 9-11 was that opportunity.
Six calls on the line.
212-209-2950.
It only takes a few more people pledging 125 for the sweatshirt
to bring us over our goal here.
212-209-2950.
Please keep those calls coming in.
Now let's talk some more about Patriot 2 here.
I have a comment.
It's kind of interesting that Patriot 2,
in case people didn't know how grand juries work,
usually the secrecy rules only applied to the grand jurors,
and I believe to the grand juries and to the attorneys,
and now I think it applies now to the witnesses.
So if you're called to testify or subpoenaed to the grand jury,
I think the Patriot Act would essentially make it,
it will bind you to keep that information secret.
For all time.
That's really something.
Okay, Sarif, now we're running out of time,
so you better hurry up.
All right.
Well, you know, one of the good things about the Patriot Act
was that it had a sundown provision,
which means that after five years the Patriot Act would be no more.
Patriot 2, which they're calling it,
the real name of it is the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003,
is something that doesn't have a sundown period.
It's something that will extend many of the provisions
of the original Patriot Act, both in concept but also in time.
These are not things that will magically go away after a certain period.
Are they extending it for another limited amount of time or forever?
Well, you know, this whole thing was released not by the government,
but it was leaked, and on every page of it,
it says that it's confidential and that it's not for release.
And the bits of it that have actually been proposed,
I should mention that this hasn't been proposed as a bill, really, on its own.
Little bits of it have been inserted as riders into other bills.
And I don't know whether we'll eventually see the whole thing presented as a bill
or whether it will just kind of be passed piecemeal,
which would make it much harder to oppose.
But I'll just do a quick rundown of some of the concepts here.
Yeah, give us the highlights. Eight calls on the line, 212-209-2950.
Section 201 says that it will be a criminal act
to release information about the whereabouts of a prisoner
once they are incarcerated.
Well, that would affect both Bernie and Kevin there.
We wouldn't be able to tell people where you were.
What do you think about that?
That's kind of scary.
Yeah.
That would have made a big difference in my situation and Kevin's
and hundreds of thousands of other people, too.
If you can not only lock people up but keep their location secret,
how can people who are opposed to their imprisonment
call the appropriate officials and say,
hey, you should really let this guy out?
Now, is this just any prisoner or so-called terrorist prisoners?
I believe it's, well, they say detainees,
so this may apply to people who are so-called foreign combatants.
But another part of Patriot 2 is that the definition of a foreign combatant
is going to be expanded.
Oh, really?
And it's going to be expanded to citizens who may have violated
any provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act,
which means engaging in all sorts of activities
which could be really some things that nobody would think of terrorism at all.
You know, vandalism or really almost anything
could make you a foreign combatant under Patriot 2.
Hacking, if I recall.
Hacking could definitely qualify.
I think hacking would be included there.
Not the cost.
That's pretty scary.
How does the Patriot 2 reduce judicial review?
I mean, are there surveillance powers expanded
without actually having a judge intervene,
or is there a burden of proof?
They encourage in Patriot 2 various business entities
to do things currently prohibited,
but which would be essentially the equivalent of the government
not surveilling but compiling information.
In other words, rather than let the government do it,
which would be blatantly illegal,
they're encouraging businesses to do it and then report it.
Also in Section 201, according to some other websites,
it also states that law enforcement does not even have to tell the press
who they have arrested, and they never have to release the names.
Secret arrests people.
Unbelievable.
Now, Section 301 and 306, Terrorist Identification Database,
set up a national database of suspected terrorists
and radically expands the database
to include anyone associated with suspected terrorist groups
and anyone involved in crimes
or having supported any group designated as terrorist.
These sections also set up a national DNA database
for anyone on probation
or who has been on probation for any crime
and orders state governments to collect the DNA
for the federal government.
What do you think about that, guys?
For any crime?
Any crime.
How about returning a library book late?
Bernie, it's really for your own good
because you could be exonerated from a crime
that you're accused of but didn't commit.
Well, as a current felon, I'm kind of upset
because I could imagine somebody spitting on the street
after being at a demonstration,
cop comes over, picks up the gob of goo,
and heaven knows where that might be introduced.
I mean, there was a state trooper in the Midwest
a couple years ago who was...
No, New York. I'm terribly sorry.
He took Scotch tape and took fingerprints
from the files in the police records
and put it on crime scenes
and had guys who had committed a crime 10, 15 years ago
incarcerated again.
Ooh, they've gone back to burglary.
No, they hadn't.
This trooper wanted to close some cases.
You know, what's interesting is
about a year, year and a half ago
I did an interview for Yahoo Internet Life Magazine,
which is now defunct,
and one of the predictions I had
was that the government would create
a federal DNA database to keep track of us,
and of course I was misquoted by the reporter,
and the misquote was that I recommended
that the government do this,
which is certainly, you know,
if anybody knows about me would certainly know
that I would never recommend such a measure,
but now it seems to be happening.
I guess I'm a little bit of a prophet.
212-209-2950 is our phone number.
Please keep those calls coming in.
Now, Section 102.
Sarif, do you have Section 102 there?
That's a really scary one for me anyway.
This is really the scariest of all,
and this should convince people
of just how important it is really
to keep WBAI going
and other free media outlets such as ours.
Section 102 states that any information gathering,
regardless of whether those activities are illegal
under any other statute,
could be construed as
clandestine intelligence activities
for a foreign power.
And if you can read between the lines
just oh so slightly here,
this makes news gathering illegal.
Totally.
Total media control.
And, you know, it's basically,
it goes along the same lines as people that say,
oh, having a peace demonstration is, you know,
is helpful.
You know, you're working for, you know,
the enemy when you do that.
Well, yeah, gathering information can be,
can be helpful to the enemy as well,
and something that, you know,
it's a really slippery slope,
and something that scares me to death.
It really does.
How about this?
Section 106.
This states that broad general warrants
by the secret FSIA court,
which is a panel of secret judges
set up in a star chamber system
that convenes in an undisclosed location,
that was granted under the first Patriot Act,
but now they're saying that's not good enough.
This states that government agents
must be given immunity for carrying out searches
with no prior court approval.
This section basically throws out
the entire Fourth Amendment
against unreasonable searches and seizures.
Unbelievable.
Also, Section 109,
it allows secret star chamber courts
to issue contempt charges
against any individual or corporation
who refuses to incriminate themselves or others,
and that annihilates the last vestiges
of the Fifth Amendment.
Emmanuel, I mean,
search and seizure law is so watered down
because even if they do an illegal search,
if the prosecutors could, I guess,
represent to a court
probably the preponderance of the evidence
that the officer was acting in good faith,
the search is upheld even though it's illegal.
We're getting a lot of this information
from Infowars.com, by the way,
so if people want to look at that a little bit more
and find out some more information about this,
it's a good place to go.
Another good site is ReclaimDemocracy.org,
and I'd just like to mention that
besides helping to keep WBAI on the air
so that we can keep talking about this stuff
and educating people about it,
call your representatives
and tell them that you're concerned about this.
Many of them potentially haven't even heard of it
or don't have a copy of this.
You can call them up, though,
and tell them that you're concerned about
the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003,
and you can reach your representatives
by calling 1-800-839-5276.
But call us first, 212-209-2950,
because this is the place you're going to hear about this.
It's pretty shocking.
Are you shocked? I'm shocked.
You haven't been hearing this on commercial TV
or commercial radio, have you?
No, you've been hearing the same old music and crap
and TV shows and Joe Millionaire
and all that kind of garbage out there.
That's what you've been hearing.
That's what you've been seeing.
That's what the priority is.
So if that's what you agree with,
if that's what you want to see,
then give us a call.
Don't give us a call.
Turn on your TV or watch something commercial in nature.
But if you think that this information
is something that might be a little bit relevant,
we're talking about things that are creating
lifetime parole, which is basically slavery
for all kinds of crimes.
We're talking about making it a crime
for various criminals, in quotes,
to use encryption.
We're talking about all kinds of things.
This is what Patriot 2 is.
This is what the future holds for us.
212-209-2950.
We're in the last two minutes of the show.
We need to get a bunch of calls here.
212-209-2950.
Calling your congressional representatives will help
because Congress denied funding
to Total Information Awareness.
That's the IAO.
That's the part of DARPA that was going to set up
the national database of everybody's information.
And Congress denied...
Well, last thing I heard was Congress denied them funding
once they fanned out about it.
So by calling out your local representatives,
you can actually affect the...
212-209-2950 is our phone number,
and we are in the last minute here.
So please, let's get a flurry of calls.
We have three calls on the line.
There's all these lonely volunteers back there.
They really want to talk to someone.
They're really sad and lonely,
and we need to have them be as busy as possible.
So please give us a call.
We're signing out of here.
We won't be here next week.
The 9 o'clock program's here?
Great, okay.
We've got to go.
So please keep those calls coming in
until we actually get out of here,
and we'll see you in two weeks.
Thanks, everybody, for calling 212-209-2950.
Stay free.
bass, drums, & keyboard play rock
Well, well, well, well, yeah
Oh, yeah
Trouble is all over town, yeah
It's beluding and shooting and killing
And burning out, them burning out
Trouble is all over my hometown, yeah
It's beluding and shooting and killing
And burning out, them burning out
But where do I stand?
bass, drums, & keyboard play rock
In this era of danger, spin, and blather,
independent voices on the airwaves are more...