Pacifica Station KPFA in Berkeley. Josh Chaffin is our DC editor at Pacifica Station WPFW.
Web support from Vanessa Tate and Leslie Holmes. You can visit FSRN online at www.fsrn.org.
I'm Deepa Fernandes.
In this era of danger, spin, and blather, independent voices on the airwaves are more
valuable than ever. And beginning on Wednesday, February 12th, WBAI Radio will be seeking
your support in our winter fun drive. Join us as we celebrate Black History Month and
celebrate the vast array of local and national programming available on this air, even as
we keep an eye on the powers that be. Join us in the tally room to take pledges from
your fellow listeners and meet the staff. To arrange a volunteer shift, please call
Pauline at 212-209-2827. That's 212-209-2827. Join us as a member and support WBAI in this
most crucial of days.
It's 7-0-1. Time for Off The Hook.
And a very good evening to everybody. The program is Off The Hook. Emmanuel Goldstein
here. Back in the studio after a prolonged absence. And Jeff, I want to thank you personally
for filling in and making sure things go as crazy as they usually go.
It was my pleasure. I couldn't think of a better way to start the year off.
Yeah, yeah. And here we are in mid-February, so it's a good time after the start of the
new year. I guess, you know, the theme is new beginnings because there are so many new
beginnings in the air around here, around the country, around the world. And it's kind
of inspiring. And I hope that's what we bring out in people tonight is inspiration. Hopefully
that'll translate into some fundraising as well because that's also why we're here tonight.
In an extended program, we're going from 7 o'clock until 9 o'clock tonight. A special
edition of Off The Hook. And I want to welcome everybody else in the studio as well. I'll
say hello. Hello. Hello. All right, everybody's there. That's good. It's good to know the
mics are working. Okay, how many of you went to the demonstration on Saturday?
I mean me. You went. Okay, Seraf, you were there. Mike,
I assume you were there. I was there.
Yeah, you were at the IMC, too, working on their website.
I was all kinds of places. Yeah, you split in two at one point, too.
That was something to behold. How did I do that?
I don't know how you did that. I was hoping you'd know. But you were in two places at
once. And, well, it was quite an accomplishment, and you got a lot done as both people. Jeff,
were you at the demonstration? No, I had work to finish up before I came
into the city, but I did make it in that night. And as I came in to the Port Authority, everyone
was leaving with their signs. Yeah, you went to the Toy Fair.
This was a, yes. Which is an extension of the demonstration,
really, when you think about it. What better way than through toys to bring peace to the
world? Exactly.
Yeah, so you're fighting the fight in your own way.
And it was fun to get stranded in the city for an extra day.
Well, because of the snow, yes. We had lots of snow as well. And for people archiving
this in the future, we had one of the biggest snowfalls ever. I think the fourth largest
in the city. Yes.
Which, you know, I think it's great. I'm all in favor of it. But, you know, it's not that
big a deal. You know, after one day, everybody got out of it, and people were walking around.
There was no problem. Everything was open. All the streets were passable. So, you know,
I don't think it calls for 24-hour news bulletins and things like that. I don't think we did
that here on WBAI. I think we pretty much said, hey, folks, it's snowing outside, you
know, and that's it. Let's get on with our programming.
And I was at the Javits Center every day. We didn't stop it. It was still open.
Could you get out of the Javits Center, or were you stranded in the Javits Center?
No, no, no, no, no. No, we were in and out.
But you were stranded in New York City, right?
Well, if you want to call it stranded, I was staying with friends. So it was a good stranded.
Oh, would they have called it stranded, or no? Jim, yes.
I just want to say that a local newscaster, a guy by the name of Christopher Jones on
Fox News made a great point, which is relevant. Before the snow, everybody's worried about
duct tape and plastic. Snow comes, and we're getting back to the business of normal life.
Snow, bread and milk, salt, shovels, the whole bit.
I don't understand this whole duct tape business. And for those of you who are just waking up
out of comas and things like that, I think Tom Ridge really regrets what he said as far
as telling people to go out and get duct tape to prepare themselves against terrorists.
First of all, I don't know what duct tape is going to do. I guess you can seal your
windows or something like that. That's the theory.
But he actually had to go on TV and tell people, please, don't seal your windows now.
Don't buy too much duct tape. This is for the future. It's not for now.
It's really, the whole thing is very, very silly.
Well, just to be serious and technical and quick, there are things wrong with this idea in general.
Duct tape is supposed to prevent noxious substances seeping in.
Number one, they're going to seep in through cracks in your door and cracks in your wall anyway.
Well, if you put duct tape over everything, though, then...
Why don't you just get an inflatable tent or something or an environmental hazard suit
or your scuba suit or whatever.
Well, imagine an apartment completely covered with duct tape. You don't have to paint it.
You don't have to maintain it. It's just, you know, it's safe.
I think it's something we should look into.
You won't be able to breathe either.
Yes.
I was going to say that you'd suffocate.
Well, suffocation is preferable to being, you know, terrorized by terrorists, don't you think?
Well, I mean...
If that's the sacrifice we have to make...
Let's experiment. You suffocate. I'll be terrorized.
Well, okay. I'll consider that.
I thought the duct, the plastic and duct tape, we put the bag over your head,
wrap the tape around your neck, and that would solve the problems.
That works.
Well, there are some people I could suggest that for.
But, you know, there was a report on CNN.
I love watching these things because they're so funny.
They were talking about... I think it was on the Talkback Live show.
They were talking about the duct tape panic,
and they were doing this whole feature on depleting supplies of duct tape in stores.
And they showed a shelf in a major store that had many different labels for duct tape, you know.
And they were all, sure enough, empty.
The thing that they missed, the thing that everybody missed,
was the fact that all the labels for duct tape were spelled D-U-C-K in the store,
which just points out how illiterate everybody is out there, you know, stocking these shelves.
They actually call it duct tape, as if you're taping a duck or something.
There's actually a trademarked brand of duct with a T tape called duct with a K tape.
Oh, really? Maybe that was... I don't think so.
No, I don't think they make that many different varieties. They're competitors.
We should tell the people that the color is orange, in case anyone has been trapped in a cave.
Oh, you mean the alert color?
The color is orange.
Now, that happened since our last show, right?
Right.
Okay, so...
We just want to keep people posted who rely on us for the color.
We were being chastised by our listeners for not announcing it, but it happened after the show, so...
No, no, no, no. It happened before our last show, and we did mention it.
I don't think so.
No?
I don't think so.
I have a strange feeling of discussing it.
Well, that's because it happened once before.
Okay.
New York's orange, anyway.
Yes.
New York City was in orange alert since September.
Okay, you know what?
What?
You just bought into the exact same thing everybody else is buying into, because they...
All the news reports are saying New York has been in condition orange since September 11, 2001.
They're all saying that.
Now, there was no condition orange on September 11, 2001.
When did they come up with the color scheme? They didn't do it that day.
Good point.
Yeah, but it's been rewritten into history.
That's not what they're saying. They're saying 2001.
They said September 10, 2002.
Really?
That's what they said.
Well, that might be more accurate, but check the newspapers.
That's about the date that they started.
It was very close to the one-year anniversary.
I've heard 2001 said many, many times.
People misspeak.
It's really annoying, but it's becoming fact, and that's why you have to be careful with how things are reported.
Now, there's some new developments today.
Speaking of new beginnings, this is kind of an interesting beginning.
There's a new website out there, a new .gov site.
Seraf, what's it called?
What's it called?
Are we ready?
Yes.
We have to be ready to get to this website.
I'm ready. I'm ready.
This computer here, is this computer actually hooked up?
It should be.
There have been a lot of changes since I came here last.
This is actually hooked up to the Internet?
Yeah.
Wow, that's really cool.
How long have we been trying to get this done?
It's been done.
Well, you weren't here.
It's been done for at least two months or so.
Two months.
What, they put it in as soon as I left?
That was the idea.
Okay, well, so I can actually go to websites if I can figure out how to get out of this Windows operating system.
To begin, click your username.
I don't have a username.
We have to hack into this now.
One of the things on the right is the username.
Uh-huh.
One of the things on the right is the username?
The column on the right contains the usernames.
Yeah, okay, but it doesn't contain the passwords.
One of them should be like, I think, a general one.
I would assume because I don't have it.
Okay, let me try that.
Try the first one.
Did you forget your password?
You can click the question mark button to see your password hint.
Okay, what's the password hint?
I don't know what password hint.
Okay, I'm going to try somebody else's password then.
I can't believe I'm doing this on the air.
Oh, okay, I think I know what this person's password is.
No, no, that's wrong.
Okay, I'm going to try this one over here.
Oh, I got in somehow.
I'm in something.
All right, I don't know.
I'm sorry, whoever I just hacked into.
They have 38 new messages.
Okay, well, you see, you know, if there was an account set up for me, I wouldn't have to do this.
But since I just want to get into, I guess I have to open Explorer.
Let's go to, what is it?
What is it again?
Ready.gov?
Ready.gov.
Ready.gov.
Okay, and this is a site that actually was started today from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
Terrorism forces us to make a choice.
Don't be afraid.
Be ready.
Yes.
I hear they have a telephone number too.
You know what?
You're right.
In fact, let's get the phone together here.
Hopefully they didn't change my password on the phone.
Okay, and let's see if they're actually there.
Okay, well, the phone's not dialing.
Oh, there they are.
These buttons are really, they've been under a lot of stress lately.
The number we are dialing for listeners who want to follow along at home is 1-800-BE-READY.
Well, don't tell them yet because they'll get their head in the way these buttons are going.
Why don't you give them a number that they can call if they want to make some donations?
Hang on.
We have to hear what the person's saying.
Sorry.
Hello, this is Secretary Tom Ridge of the Department of Homeland Security.
Tom, I can't believe you.
Wait a minute.
What happened to his voice?
He hung up.
Tom, what happened to Tom?
Press 1.
He comes back.
Yeah, we want to hear it in American.
Yeah, he comes back.
You are calling from a rotary phone.
Please hold.
Just press 1.
You may hear tips and receive your brochure.
I want to talk to Tom again.
Congratulations.
Oh, here he is.
You've taken an important step toward surviving in an emergency.
Here at the Department of Homeland Security, we're working hard to prepare our nation,
but each of us must be ready to make it on our own, at least for a period of time,
no matter where we are when disaster strikes.
Stay on the line to receive our free brochure with simple tips that could save your life,
or go to www.ready.gov.
You can do something to protect your family and yourself against the threat of terrorism,
and the time to prepare is now.
If you'd like to receive our free brochure, preparing makes sense.
Get ready now.
Press 1.
If you'd like to learn more right away, go online to www.ready.gov,
or press 2 for a few simple tips.
I think 2.
Yeah, 2.
I guess we can't get an operator.
Let's try an operator first.
We're sorry.
The number you entered is invalid.
Please try again.
If you'd like to receive our free brochure,
the fight against terror begins at home.
With a little planning and some common sense, you can be better prepared.
The first step is to begin a process of learning about potential threats
so you are able to react during an emergency.
Be prepared to assess the situation
and to use whatever you have on hand to take care of yourself and your loved ones.
Now, depending on your circumstances and the nature of the attack,
you might do better by staying put, or it might be better to get away.
You should understand and plan for both possibilities.
Think about fresh water, food, and clean air.
You will need a gallon of water per person per day and food that won't go bad.
Keep basic emergency supplies like a radio, flashlight, extra batteries, and a first aid kit.
Store heavyweight garbage bags and duct tape to seal windows, doors,
and air vents from outside contamination.
While there is no way to predict what will happen
or what your personal circumstances will be, there are things you can do now.
To learn more about how to get ready now, go online to www.ready.gov.
Thank you for calling the Department of Homeland Security.
Terrorism forces us to make a choice.
We can be afraid, or we can be ready.
Wait, what's the choice?
Which should we be, afraid or ready?
I figure, hedge my bets, I am both afraid and ready.
Well, I'm ready to be afraid, but I'm afraid to be ready.
How's that for a slogan?
That's good, but I don't think you should be afraid to be ready.
Sometimes these little beeps turn into dial tones, you know.
Oh.
It does happen.
Let's wait.
I'm not saying that's what I'm waiting for, I'm just saying that's a fact.
But that's a soothing sound, it's sort of the sound of our current administration, I think.
Isn't that the sound of the Russian phone melting in failsafe?
That is something else.
So the fight against terrorism begins at home, so we can't do anything here.
We have to go home first before we can do anything.
Or either that or we move in here.
No, I don't think that would be welcomed by anybody.
And press 1.
Ready.gov.
Well, if anybody finds anything interesting.
Has anyone looked over this site and found any...
There's all kinds of threats that you're supposed to be prepared against now.
Biological threat, chemical threat, explosions, just general explosions.
Nuclear blast and radiation threat.
It's like we're back in the 1950s, you know.
I mean, the nuclear blast is not a dirty bomb.
That's a real nuclear bomb they're talking about now.
The arms race is back somehow.
Explosions is particularly good.
They basically tell you...
There's something about if you're trapped in debris, if there's a fire, if there's an explosion.
But there is...
The one I was looking at before.
Yeah, if you're in a moving vehicle.
If there is an explosion or other factor that makes it difficult to control the vehicle,
pull over, stop the car, and set the parking brake.
And they spell brake wrong, too.
They spell B-R-E-A-K.
Which tells you how literate these people are.
How do you like that? I found a spelling error just by looking at it now.
Is there information on what to do if you're trampled by a horse?
No, there isn't.
But we'll get into that in a moment, because we have tips about that.
But my point is, if there's an explosion or other factor that makes it difficult to control the vehicle,
how do you pull over and stop the car and set the parking brake?
You have to steer into the explosion.
Always steer into the explosion.
It's classic.
There are so many ways to parody this.
We just don't know where to begin.
That's the problem.
That's the problem we're having now.
I was reading one section about duct taping yourself into your house.
And the justification they give for this is that terrorists may put junk into the air.
Junk. Yeah, the junk.
Well, that's the times we're living in now.
It's really crazy. It really is.
But back to the demonstration.
Yes, we were talking about being trampled by horses.
A lot of that went on this weekend.
I don't know what your experience was, Mike.
I had some funny experiences myself, but I understand a lot of people were getting very frustrating and terrorizing experiences.
My worst experience was being lied to by a police officer, which I'll get over.
Was that the first time that ever happened?
No, no.
But other people were trampled by horses and beaten and other nasty things.
The crazy thing is, none of that was necessary.
Not that it ever is necessary.
But in this particular case, it would have been so incredibly easy to simply have the march like people wanted to do to First Avenue by the UN.
And there would have been so much less of a traffic tie-up.
But instead, they decided to deny the march and just somehow expect people to get to the rally without walking to it somehow.
I don't know what they were thinking.
When I came up, 51st Street and Lexington Avenue, the number six stop, was closed.
And that's obviously the most logical one to get off at.
So they just closed it off so everybody had to go to different stations.
And then when you were there, the police were keeping you from getting across Lexington Avenue and across Third Avenue.
And I mean, how frustrating is that when you can't even get to the place that everybody is rallying at?
It was extremely frustrating.
There was no reason to do it.
Now, the first time on Third Avenue, it was pretty simple.
The cops were blocking the street and a bunch of people just went into, I think it was a coffee house, and had a side door and just emerged right behind the cops that were blocking the street.
And they were none the wiser.
The second time, we had some help from a BAI listener, in fact.
I won't go into details so he doesn't get into trouble.
But he had the right kind of ID and led us through the police barricade.
And thanks very much to that person for helping out.
And we made it to the rally.
We made it to the rally.
And there was so much space there.
They had wide open streets.
They were keeping people from filling the area.
And it was just completely unnecessary.
Well, just for theoretical purposes, as far as trampling defense against horses, the idea is to swarm the horse.
If the horse has no momentum and can't move, it can't trample you.
Poor horse.
Well, it's not the horse.
The horse is being told what to do.
The horse doesn't want to trample anybody, I'm sure.
But it's basically the horse's rider saying, OK, plow into the crowd now.
The crowd that I saw was completely non-violent and non-disruptive.
I don't think any Starbucks were attacked anyplace.
There was just no need for it.
Well, as I said earlier, I'm the type of guy who probably would believe in shooting most of the demonstrators.
But even I was appalled by the police tactics.
You're the kind of guy who would believe in shooting all the demonstrators?
Come on, I'm the token right-wing Republican here.
Give me a break.
Well, I don't think any right... I mean, there are right-wing Republicans at the demonstration.
That's the thing that bothers me, is how people view this as a leftist thing.
It's not. Everybody is...
Like I said a bunch of weeks ago, everybody hates John Ashcroft.
Doesn't matter if you're left or right.
Let me rephrase then.
Yeah, you might want to rephrase that a little bit.
Although I strongly disagreed with the tenor of the demonstration,
I think that the police were absurd and overreacted.
What was the tenor of the demonstration?
It's inadvertently giving aid and comfort to enemies of the United States,
to wit, Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi government.
Anytime we criticize our own president, we're giving aid to...
No, no, no. Indirectly.
Indirectly. But that's what I'm saying. Indirectly.
Anytime we criticize or go against the administration...
I mean, that argument can be used all the time.
And it has been used.
I mean, I've seen people in the government saying that, you know,
that people from Iraq are organizing these demonstrations...
I mean, it's actually like the communist threat from the 1950s all over again.
No, no, no. I'm saying there's a cogent argument against the administration's policies.
It's fine, but this is a rabid demonstration of which many...
I would say the majority of people there had no idea of any of the details involved in the Iraq situation.
Well, how many people do you think really know all the details in the Iraq situation?
That's a good point.
Yeah. I mean, you know, I'd like to know all the details.
In fact, that's part of what this whole thing is about, is trying to get more details.
Where is the evidence?
You know, we keep saying we're going to prove that Saddam Hussein was somehow connected to al-Qaeda and 9-11,
but, you know, the evidence was never even provided to link al-Qaeda to it.
There really wasn't... I mean, I believe there was some responsibility,
but the smoking gun was never produced, and it could have been, you know.
It could have been.
So this administration has been relying on, you know, keeping information from people,
and it really flies in the face of what people want.
People want information, they want disclosure, and I think that's what we're seeing here.
We're seeing a real, you know, a real conflict.
Well, I'm not going to debate this now, because this isn't the point I was trying to make.
The point I was trying to make was that I think the police got way carried away
violating people's right to free assembly and freedom of speech.
Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, they had orders to do this.
Well, obviously.
And that's where the real problem lies.
They were told, make sure people don't do this.
Things that people have rights to do.
Jeff is passing around a digital camera with a photograph on it.
Do you maybe want to describe what this is?
Hold it up to the microphone so our listeners can see.
Can our listeners see now?
Those are bobblehead dolls of...
Bobblehead dolls?
Bobblehead dolls of Bush, Cheney, and Ashcroft there.
Yeah, and this was at the demonstration, or was this at Toy Fair?
No, I'm sorry. It was at my demonstration.
Okay. Well, how about that?
Wow.
Well, you know, it was just really cool, because I got the feeling at the end of it all that,
first of all, I thought there were so much fewer people there.
I thought there was only like 30,000 people in the demonstration.
And in actuality, there was several hundred thousand people,
all spread throughout the various streets that they were allowed to go down.
And the reason why it seemed smaller was because everybody was being segregated
and kept apart from each other.
So it really had a demoralizing effect in many ways,
because people thought that there weren't as many people here as there really were.
And that's the kind of thing that, you know, I guess it's a tactic of some sort.
But the thing that I really found encouraging was the BAI presence there, you know.
And I don't know if you guys were there.
If you saw, a lot of people were wearing BAI signs, and everybody,
everybody was listening to the radio station, because we were broadcasting it live.
And this was like one of the coolest things I think I've ever seen the station be involved in,
because here we were covering a major news event in our city
that nobody else was covering, at least not to that extent.
And the people in the crowd knew about it.
They knew to tune to this station.
They knew to listen.
They knew this was where they could get reliable information
and the facts as to where things were taking place.
And I think it was a really, a proud day for us.
And I'm very happy to have been part of this place throughout the years.
So that's the kind of thing that I think we need to be doing more of in the future,
is covering things like this.
I heard two things that I can't confirm,
but I heard that the police set up barricades like at 9 a.m. before the protests started.
Well, they probably set up barricades at 4 a.m.
I mean, they're known to do that.
Plus, I heard there were sharpshooters on the buildings.
It's kind of weird, because if it's a protest, which is a major crowd,
what are they going to shoot?
I don't know. I don't know.
Well, they were carrying Geiger counters as well, whatever that was for.
I mean, that's more understandable than shooting a single bullet at somebody.
Well, they were obviously afraid of terrorism happening inside the crowd.
Yeah.
Look, if we're on the side of the terrorists, as they like to say,
if we're aiding and abetting them, why would the terrorists attack us?
It flies in the face with their own logic.
It doesn't really make any sense, and I think it's absurd, the whole notion.
Basically, I think it's absurd, the whole notion that you need to get a permit to march in the first place.
If people want to demonstrate about something, they should just demonstrate about it,
and that's part of freedom of speech.
And yeah, okay, you might mess up traffic a little bit.
That's the way it goes sometimes.
You live with this. It's like a snowstorm.
Which, by the way, the snowstorm cost more to the city than the demonstration.
$20 million?
Yeah.
And it got better coverage, literally and figuratively.
It sure did. Think about that.
The snowstorm was covered. Jeopardy was preempted.
How do you think about that, Jim?
That bothers me.
That's a crime against humanity right there.
And, you know, they devoted more time to demonstrations overseas,
which, granted, got more people, but still there was this huge thing
with hundreds of thousands of people right here in New York,
and they didn't break away from programming to cover that.
We did, and we didn't cover the weather.
So that shows you the priorities, and that shows you why you should call this radio station to support it,
because that's why we're here tonight.
Well, it's not the only reason why we're here tonight.
We're here every week covering all kinds of events, whether they're technological, social,
or all kinds of different areas in our changing culture.
That's what we've evolved into over the years.
And this radio station is here to provide that voice,
and it provides a voice to so many different people.
Our listeners certainly understand that.
Now, we have some new ideas, new things that we're planning and doing,
and that's part of what we're offering here tonight for people who call in.
Although I should point out, you know, the real reason to call in is to support the radio station,
but we like to contribute something ourselves.
So what we do is we tend to bring things to the station and say,
okay, you know, this is what we can give people who pledge a certain amount.
What is the telephone number so people can make these calls of which you speak?
Good point.
212 is the area code, which you must dial now, even if you're in 212, from what I understand.
1-2-1-2.
You have to dial the 1? Has anybody tested that yet?
Yes.
And what happens if you don't dial the 1?
You don't get through?
I don't believe that.
Okay, 1-2-1-2.
2-0-9-2-9-5-0 is the number to call.
Now, before you call, this is what we are offering today.
Now, these are things that we are creating, even as we speak.
They do not yet exist.
They are going to exist in the next couple of weeks,
and we're not sure if they're going to exist for much longer than that
because it may be a very limited thing.
The first thing that we have come up with,
and this is something that Jeff and I are going to be talking about,
is a brand-new T-shirt specifically for Off The Hook.
That's right.
It's never been done before.
Never been done before.
We've had 2600 shirts.
We've had various Hope shirts.
But this is an Off The Hook exclusive radio show shirt.
What do you think about that?
Now, you can ask what it looks like.
We don't know because we haven't made it yet.
But we are making it, and we are committed to making this shirt,
and we are going to be making it in the next couple of weeks, right?
Yeah.
Okay, and then it will be printed up, and then it will be, you know,
it will go to the people, the people who pledge tonight for a pledge of $75.
They will be the first people to get these shirts,
the first people in the world, and maybe the last people in the world too.
Well, I don't think it's going to be ugly or anything like that,
but it's possible that we just won't want to make any more after that point.
I don't know.
All kinds of reasons could happen.
We could be at war, and we might not have time to make T-shirts.
We might have to make bullets or something.
I don't know.
Well, you know, you'll have to pitch in.
You know that, Mike.
Don't scoff at this.
Remember OTH bullet.
We'll be when I leave the show.
Shirts can be made into bandages.
I just want to say I've seen the shirt in a vision.
It's a nice shirt.
In a vision you've seen it?
Okay.
Well, if you subscribe to Jim's Visions,
then you know that they're in all kinds of different colors and things.
But, yeah, for a $75 pledge, you'll get that brand-new T-shirt,
plus I believe it's your choice of a video of Freedom Downtime
or a one-year subscription.
All you need to do is tell the person picking up the phone at the other end which you want.
It's either one or the other.
Freedom Downtime or a one-year subscription to 2600.
That's in addition to the off-the-hook T-shirt.
Pledge of $75.
We have no calls on the line.
Now, come on.
That's not a bad deal.
That's not a bad deal.
Now, for those of you who know that's what you want to pledge
and you want to pledge anything more than that,
please give a call now, 212-209-2950.
And once a couple of phone lines start ringing,
then we'll go into the second pledge level that we have,
which is even more spectacular but a bit more expensive,
212-209-2950.
We only do this a couple of times a year.
Actually, I think three times a year.
And it's necessary.
It's necessary because of what you don't hear.
You don't hear commercials.
You don't hear all kinds of sponsorship announcements like you hear
on just about every other radio station in town.
What you do hear is information and dissent of all sorts
and questions and answers that you just will not hear anyplace else.
212-209-2950.
That's not a bad response.
We have about five calls on the line.
Let's keep those coming in while we talk about the second premium level.
Before we do that, we should also point out that there may be people out there
who can't afford $75, and really any pledge helps.
Yeah, any pledge helps.
Just because you don't get the shirt or the film or the subscription
does not mean that we are going to chastise you
or call you losers or anything like that.
We want you to participate in whatever way you can.
And if it's a $10 pledge, a $20 pledge, whatever you can afford,
every little bit is going to help this radio station.
That's how we've gotten where we are today.
The station's been around since 1960.
1960, that's 43 years of WBAI New York.
And every day of that has been because of listeners like you.
Every day.
It's unprecedented achievement.
And never before has it been so important.
We have so many different things going on at once.
We have all different topics and projects to work on.
I feel like we're at the beginning of something really cool and productive.
Yeah, there's a lot of bad things going on.
There's a lot of things to be scared about.
But I feel like we're together.
I feel like there's a good group of people here.
Last Saturday in the city at night I was down in the village
and just all these people walking around with their buttons and their signs
just kind of like left over from the demonstration.
You saw it at Javits Center.
I saw it at the Port Authority when I was coming in.
And it felt like the whole city kind of went through this together.
And it was a really wonderful, peaceful event for the people that participated.
Obviously, there were some people that didn't want to be peaceful
and they were wearing uniforms for the most part.
But apart from that, I think a lot was accomplished.
A lot was gotten out there.
And it just feels really rejuvenating to have that happen
and to know that this place played a part in it.
This place really played a major part.
The IMC played a major part in it.
And all of us as individuals did.
And that's why it's important to give a call, 212-209-2950.
It was also interesting to see that people were still carrying their signs.
I mean, in the Port Authority, still wearing them on their chest.
No one was like, OK, it's over, it's done, we're throwing them out.
Everybody kept moving with them.
It almost looked like it was taking place there.
Yeah. And the funny thing was, the really cool thing, I think,
was that Citigroup, the Citigroup Center,
sort of turned into this staging area,
the place where we have the 2600 meetings every month.
I just managed to get over there.
And it was hard to get back over there too
because after the rally, by the way, rallies, I find rallies kind of dull.
I really do. I just have to confess that right now.
I just feel like people are constantly lecturing,
and it's all different things.
I think the interesting parts are the marches.
And, of course, that's what was denied.
Probably the city agrees that the interesting part is the march,
which is why they denied it.
But just walking through the streets,
seeing all the different people with all the different signs
and ways of expressing themselves, that to me was the real highlight.
And then after walking all the way back to 3rd Avenue,
where the Citigroup building is,
and going into the lobby area where we have our meetings,
it was filled with demonstrators,
people just kind of coming in from the cold and resting,
having a cup of tea.
It was so cool seeing people doing that.
And they weren't being hassled at all.
They were just kind of regrouping there.
And that's where I really felt like the whole city was behind this,
and together.
It's probably kind of a naive thought,
but it did feel kind of good.
One thing that really shocked me
is that we kind of almost unintentionally stopped traffic on 3rd Avenue.
There were so many people that we filled the street,
and the cars had nowhere to go.
And so there were a post office truck and a city bus
and some private cars just kind of stuck there,
and they weren't upset.
Well, I saw some people who were upset,
but you can't really...
I mean, who was driving in a situation like that,
knowing there was a huge demonstration?
There were even signs up on the expressways saying,
Demonstration Saturday. Don't drive on the east side.
And people drove on the east side,
and they got stuck in traffic,
and that's what happens.
But if I was in a car then,
knowing that was going on,
you were part of history.
Yeah, it sucks.
You won't get where you want to go in a timely way,
but it's history,
and recognize it for that.
And yeah, for the most part,
I think people were pretty tolerant of what was going on.
One thing, though, that was very dangerous
when we were crossing 3rd Avenue.
We had the walk sign,
and there were no cops around,
so people were starting to walk,
but there were cops on the other side of the street
waving buses through at full speed
without having any kind of contact with the pedestrians
who were trying to cross the street.
So I saw a couple of people almost get plowed into
by speeding buses that were going through red lights.
So that was not very cool,
and that's something that I think
they really need to take a good look at
in their priorities.
Okay, 212-209-2950 is the phone number.
Thanks for the people who have called in already.
Now, we have a second pledge level,
and that pledge level is $125.
For that, you get something
that is really a monumental project for us,
and it's something based on the feedback
that we got from listeners to this radio show
when we asked a few weeks ago,
what kinds of things do you want to see?
And, Sarif, do you want to talk about this a little bit?
We're going to be giving away some new hooded sweatshirts
with a brand-new 2600 design on them.
That's right. That's right.
Hooded sweatshirts.
This is a first for us.
We've never ventured into this world before.
I mean, we've been in this world before,
but we've never actually provided the hooded sweatshirts.
We've hung out with lots of people
that wear hooded sweatshirts.
Some of us have worn hooded sweatshirts ourselves,
and it's every bit as dangerous as you might think,
both mentally and physically.
But now we are...
Oh, you have one?
Jeff, I never knew you were the hooded sweatshirt type.
Why don't you put it on?
Let's see what...
You have a skull on the front of it.
Why do you have a skull on the front of it?
Are you part of some heavy metal cult?
No, I've got a good deal on it.
This is actually the logo from The Punisher.
How about that? Are you The Punisher?
I've been known to be The Punisher.
All right, well, for a pledge of $125,
you can get your own brand-new, unique 2600 hooded sweatshirt,
which right now are in super limited quantities.
They haven't yet been produced, but they will be.
You have our word on that.
And I'm not sure if we're going to continue producing them.
It depends, I guess, on the kind of reaction we get tonight.
Yeah, actually, the people here can decide
if we're going to make more of these for the future,
for the untrodden masses out there that aren't listening right now.
Now, for that, you will also get...
It's not over yet.
You will also get a copy of the film Freedom Downtime,
the Kevin Mitnick documentary,
which came out a year or so ago.
And in addition to that,
you'll get a subscription to 2600 magazine.
If you already have a subscription, we'll just add on a year.
All that for $125.
212-209-2950, that's a really good deal.
You're getting a lot of bang for your buck there.
But most importantly, even if you weren't getting a thing,
the important thing is to call up and pledge support for the radio station
because that's what makes this magic happen.
And there's been a lot of magic lately.
And I feel like it's only going to get better.
On behalf of the listeners of WBII-FM 99.5,
I want to ask, what's on the hooded sweatshirt?
Obviously not the Punisher logo.
Well, no, we're not going to put a skull and crossbones on it.
But it's going to be...
Well, we don't have the exact logo quite worked out.
We're hammering that out right now.
But it's definitely going to be a 2600 logo of a sort.
It'll say 2600 on the front.
And we're not sure if it's going to say something else in addition
or have a graphic.
But when you're walking around with your hooded sweatshirt friends,
you will be accepted.
Let's put it that way.
You will not be chastised.
We're not going to put a picture of, like, Barney the Dinosaur
or something like that on it.
Although I understand that's accepted these days in some goth clubs.
But never mind that.
212-209-2950.
I see two calls on the line.
We should have ten calls on the line.
We have two pledge levels, $75 for the new off-the-hook T-shirt
along with your choice of a subscription or a video of Freedom Downtime.
And for $125, you can get the hooded sweatshirt,
the brand-new 2600 hooded sweatshirt,
plus both the video and the 2600 subscription.
It's really quite remarkable.
A couple of shows ago, we were just giving away the 2600 video of Freedom Downtime.
And that in itself, if you have not seen the film,
that's an educational thing to have.
We could easily be giving that away for a $100 pledge by itself.
Many times videos are pledged for at least that amount.
You can buy the video for less, certainly,
but it's the radio station you're pledging for.
And you're becoming one of our sponsors
as opposed to having Exxon or Pepsi or one of those companies be our sponsors.
212-209-2950.
I've successfully driven off all the calls from the lines,
so we need to get some more people calling in.
212-209-2950.
Pledge your support to Off the Hook, to the radio station.
Keep this kind of thing coming your way.
Don't be afraid.
People say they want hooded sweatshirts,
and I haven't seen anybody calling in for the hooded sweatshirts yet.
If this is going to work,
we have to have a lot of people calling in to try these things out.
What is the telephone number? I've forgotten already.
You forgot. 212-209-2950.
That is our phone number.
It's very, very simple to write it down,
call your friends, have them call in.
You have to dial one first, regardless of the country.
Yeah, you have to dial one first. That's right.
The weird thing is, yesterday I was calling Queens,
and I didn't have to dial the area code.
I was calling from Staten Island to Queens,
and I didn't dial the area code. I forgot to do that.
And it went through perfectly.
Well, that just goes to show you, anything is possible.
You know, it's possible that eventually it may be something like 212-0.
There's an article here, Leo.
There's an article in the new...
I got this from the Wired website.
It's dated yesterday morning.
It basically says that they're thinking of adding two digits to phone numbers
by 2005.
Well, this is what they should have done to start with.
They wouldn't have had to get all these crazy area codes
if they had added digits in the first place.
Ironically, it's the phone companies blaming the voice-over Internet people
where a couple of weeks ago somebody called up
and said that they get numbers in various area codes
for a relatively cheap price,
and they say that this is eating up numbers even faster
than cell phones and pagers and lines dedicated to computers have.
So now the phone companies are accusing these companies
of eating up the numbers at a high rate,
and saying, oh, we're going to have to go to another numbering scheme,
and the proposal from the voice-over Internet people
is add a digit after the area code.
Gee, I've heard that before.
Yeah, right here you've heard that.
And maybe if the people, the North American Numbering Authority,
had been listening to this radio show,
we wouldn't be having to dial all these extra digits.
We'd have a scheme that made some sense.
This one has two digits.
Two digits.
Well, yeah, but the thing is, you know, we have...
Nobody knows where area code 585 is.
Nobody here knows.
Someone knows.
You know.
I know, because I've even brought this up before on this show,
and nobody remembers where area codes are anymore.
Where is it?
It's somewhere in upstate New York.
Ah.
Yeah.
212-209-2950.
We have one call on the line.
We can do so much better than that, folks.
No matter what you can afford to pledge,
it's important that we hear from you,
that we make this a successful fundraising drive
for this radio station,
because we're poised on the precipice of all kinds of craziness ahead.
I mean, we're at the verge of war.
We're at the verge of the economy falling apart.
We're at the verge of all kinds of draconian laws being passed.
We have this new thing called Patriot 2 we're going to get into
in just a couple of minutes.
But, you know, one thing that we have that's good
is this place to talk about them,
this place to spread information,
to communicate ideas,
to take your phone calls,
all kinds of things like that.
And believe me, this place will not exist into the future
if certain people have their say,
if things like Patriot 2 go forward,
if things like Homeland Security continue to gather ignorance and strength.
You're going to see all kinds of controls and restrictions
that you have not ever seen before.
And we are one of the voices here that are crying out
to get people's attention,
and we need to pay bills in order to be able to do that.
Radio stations in New York City,
50,000-watt radio stations in New York City,
are very expensive to maintain
and even more expensive to buy.
So God forbid we ever lose a place like this.
It's not something you're going to get back very quickly or easily.
You know, they launch new kinds of technology all the time.
They have the satellite services, XM, Sirius,
but you don't hear Pacifica on those.
You know, even though there's new technology,
they don't permit these voices to be heard.
So you better believe if these radio stations
are ever taken over by some other entity,
they're not going to be given back.
They're not going to be just handed over to alternative voices.
They're going to be taken over by the same corporate interests,
Clear Channel and whatnot.
You're just going to hear one side of everything.
So that's why it's important to preserve what you have while it's here,
and we're still here.
212-209-2950, four calls on the line.
That's good news. That's good news.
We need to build it up a little bit.
We're on for two hours tonight. We're on until 9 o'clock.
We're going to have some special guests joining us after the hour,
and we look forward to that.
We don't want to keep them waiting, though.
We need to drive the tally figure up a little bit
so we can move forward and do all kinds of fun things.
Again, two pledge levels.
$75 for the new off-the-hook T-shirt,
plus your choice of video or subscription,
and $125 for the hooded sweatshirt,
the 2600 hooded sweatshirt, brand new,
and a video as well as a subscription,
plus any amount is acceptable to help us out,
to help us reach our various goals that we have.
I believe a basic membership is $50,
and student and low-income at $25.
For people who can afford that, it really helps.
Yeah, 212-209-2950.
That's the number to call.
Now, we always get...
This is our only show during this fundraiser.
We always get people that call in,
or that write in after the show has aired.
They listen to it on the Internet,
and they want to pledge then.
Well, you know, you can't.
I mean, yeah, you can pledge to the radio station,
but you can't pledge to off-the-hook.
We're on once. This is tonight.
This is the only night that we're going to be on
during this fundraiser,
so it's really important that people call in now.
212-209-2950.
And Junce is here.
Junce is here.
Junce has just walked in from New Jersey.
How are you doing, Junce?
Pretty good.
Yeah?
Trouble with the traffic?
Yeah, there's a lot of people
trying to get into the city tonight.
Yeah.
Well, maybe it's a lot of people
trying to get out of New Jersey.
That could be.
No offense to our New Jersey listeners
who also need to dial 1212-209-2950.
Now, Junce is...
None taken.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
You're from New Jersey.
Everyone's from New Jersey these days.
Not everyone.
Well, a lot more people.
But Junce is one of the main,
if not the main person,
behind the web streaming,
not only of Off the Hook,
but of WBAI in general.
So a great debt of gratitude is owed to him.
Now, Jess, I guess you can applaud if you want.
It's always nice to do that.
All right.
Now, a lot of people don't realize this,
but for a couple of years now,
really ever since the coup here at WBAI,
2,600 and 2,600 friends
have been providing the streaming 24-7
for WBAI,
so people around the world can hear this.
Now, that kind of thing costs a ton of money
if you do it the right way.
But if you do it the hacker way,
you can figure out ways,
and I'm not talking about anything illegal here.
I'm talking about ways of just using technology
and being clever about it.
And, for instance, now we have our stream
going out to very...
How does it work now, Junce?
Why don't you tell us how the show works.
Well, we're split up
among a couple of different servers.
So where it would take...
You'd have to spend several hundred dollars a month
for one big server.
You can spread it out among a bunch of smaller ones
for free.
So right now, you have a radio in your house.
Is that how it works?
Yeah, basically.
It's feeding into its own card on a computer
that's feeding a signal out to one of the servers,
and that gets replicated to all the other servers,
and you're basically connecting to one of those servers
and picking up a copy of the stream.
So it's like a chain.
Basically, yeah.
Yeah.
And so instead of having one centralized place
that charges us a lot of money to maintain,
we're basically kind of just jumping around
and everybody's sort of pitching in.
Basically, yeah.
And we get a huge capacity that way.
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
Many hundreds of people can listen at one time.
During this radio show, in fact,
lots of people are constantly listening.
We get the stats,
and we know that we have several hundred people
from around the world listening.
And those people, by the way,
can also be calling Country Code 1-212-209-2950
and pledging.
Oh, it looks like a lot of people are calling,
which is really good news.
Now, to keep this going,
I think a lot of people take it for granted,
and we've had some difficulties.
We had a power failure out in Denver,
which, believe it or not, affected this whole thing
because Digital is one of our people out there
who provides a great service to us
by having a stream up there.
And then things bounce over to Live 365,
which has recently started asking for usernames.
We're trying to figure out an alternate way
so that people don't have to register usernames.
But we're getting a lot of complaints from people.
Some of them are kind of nasty.
And, you know, I think people just need to realize
this is a volunteer effort.
This is something that people are doing
out of the goodness of their hearts.
And if there are people out there that can help,
help make this work,
yeah, call Jeff's phone.
That's the best way to get our attention.
Jones, what is it that we need right now
that would make things so much easier?
We need people with servers with lots of bandwidth.
I mean, a couple of weeks ago,
during the UN Security Council meeting,
we were using almost seven megabits per second of bandwidth,
and that's a lot.
That's a lot.
T1 is one and a half megabits,
so that's a lot of bandwidth.
And that's what we need.
We need people who have access to these big pipes
to give us a little bit of their bandwidth
and help us spread it out.
And, folks, that should tell you
the importance of this radio station,
that people are clamoring all around the world
to connect to it, you know,
and using all this bandwidth just to hear what's going on
and the fact that they can't tune to a local station
in their area and listen to this
because it's so rare that you have to connect
to a station in a distant city here in New York
to hear what's going on in the world today.
So if you want that resource to continue to be here,
please give us a call, 212-209-2950.
Pledge at one of the levels that we've announced.
If you've forgotten what they are,
just ask our tally people.
They're very helpful.
There's a whole lot of them down there,
and they're all working very hard.
It's, you know, we pitch in as much as we can.
We donate the merchandise.
We donate the bandwidth.
We have people donating their time.
So what we are asking in return
is for people to donate some finances
to the radio station itself,
none of which comes to us.
It all goes to the radio station.
It all keeps the radio station going,
and that is vital.
That is so vital in this day and age.
Now, Jens, we basically,
so right now we have your server running,
feeding people from different parts of the country
for this radio show,
but normally it's just one server,
and then that server bounces over to Live365,
and that's how things go during the normal business day.
Right, and that was fine for a while.
Unfortunately, we're getting more and more popular.
I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
It's good. It's good.
It's just it becomes more complicated.
Oh, yeah.
So now we're reaching the limits
of what we can do with just that,
so we really need either monetary donations
where we can go and pay for a service
or bandwidth.
If you've got bandwidth, give us a server.
Yeah, yeah, so either one,
but if you're calling with a monetary donation,
the number is 212-209-2950.
If you're calling with bandwidth,
well, just email us, I guess, oth at 2600.com.
We'd love to hear from you there as well,
but again, those donations are so important.
It keeps this place going,
and there's nothing better than knowing
that the station is strong,
that we're not prone to all kinds of silliness
of being taken over and turned into, you know,
a jazz station or something like that.
We saw how real that threat was a couple of years ago,
and this Saturday, in no small part,
thanks to our new general manager, Don Rojas,
who I have not yet met,
but I've heard nothing but good things about,
and the spirit here is just unbelievably cool right now.
It really is, and what we've seen on Saturday,
just more recognition for this place
than I've ever seen before any place.
I mean, you know, with the possible exception
of the rallies to save WBAI,
the rally in New York City for, you know, for peace
had such a BAI presence that it was just,
it was awe-inspiring, it really was,
and that kind of thing is made possible
by listeners, obviously, keeping the place afloat.
Not by Exxon, not by Mobil,
although they're the same company, aren't they?
Not by Exxon Mobil,
and certainly not by any of the corporate interests
that we are constantly talking about.
Not by the phone companies, not by the internet companies,
or anything like that.
It's all done by our listeners.
It's miraculous.
212-209-2950.
Please give us a call.
Also, you know, I've been journeying around the country
for the past five weeks or so,
calling in from various parts of the country,
and it was really cool, you know,
being able to hear the listeners,
being able to take phone calls from, you know,
Arizona and California and Amsterdam
and all kinds of other places.
And it's, of course, great to be back here.
But the really important thing to remember
is that radio needs to be local.
Radio needs to be...
It needs to have local voices.
Now, when you travel across the country,
you spend a lot of time listening to the radio in the car,
and you realize how much of this is not local anymore,
how much of it is simply a satellite feed.
Now, I have to admit,
while driving, you know, in various places
where the only voices you hear are religion
and, you know, awful music, really bad music,
in fact, I've got some religion to play,
which I'll play in a future week,
because I don't have it with me today,
but we actually...
We heard something so crazy on the radio
that we held our mobile phones up to the speaker of the car
and called our voicemail
so that we'd be able to save it somehow,
and then we turned that into a wave
so that we'll be able to burn it onto a CD and play it here.
Hopefully, it'll sound kind of interesting.
But the craziest, you know, religious, fundamentalist,
and, you know, closed-minded opinions being expressed,
not to say that all religious stuff is closed-minded,
but when there's nothing else, when there's no alternatives,
that's when it becomes really important to, you know,
to start thinking what else can be here,
what else can be expressed.
Now, I spend a lot of time listening to National Public Radio,
which I usually am a big critic of
because I don't like what they do to radio stations,
I don't like the fact that they take over radio stations everywhere
and shut down colleges, college voices,
and turn them into, you know, classical stations or jazz stations.
But when you're out there where there's no other voices,
the occasional talk shows that they have
really are a bastion of sanity.
But it's not local. It's still not local.
When we were driving around in parts of California,
we came across some local talk shows on various radio stations.
Not always, you know, things that we would agree with,
but just, you know, local in character.
At one point, there was rioting in Oakland
because the Super Bowl was over and Oakland had lost.
And that was the defeat riot.
I imagine the victory riot would have been a lot worse.
But we were listening to radio stations coming out of Oakland
and hearing reporters who were trapped in their cars
while people were basically, you know, smashing things all around them.
And it was just, you know, it wasn't a very nice situation,
but it was very engaging to be able to listen to what was happening live
from the standpoint of somebody who was actually there.
And that kind of thing happens so rarely these days.
Usually what you have is you have a satellite feed
coming from someplace of music from a DJ
who's in a different city altogether
pretending he's in the same town.
And there's just no connection at all to the listener anymore.
We were driving in a heavy snowstorm in Minnesota late at night.
We had no idea what the weather was like.
We were calling those stupid numbers they have on the side of the road,
on the blue signs that say, on your cellular phone, dial this.
And it wasn't giving any information that was helpful.
And then finally we found a local station
that was taking phone calls from plow drivers.
That's right.
Snow plow drivers were calling into this radio station
giving reports on where the roads were slippery or plowed or not plowed.
And it was just so refreshing to hear something like that.
Not the same voices over and over again.
Not the same music over and over again.
Local voices, local angles, local perspective.
And it's a vanishing breed.
Local radio is such a vanishing breed.
Now, BAI covers a lot of national, international news,
but we always have this New York bent to things.
And that's something I hope we never lose.
When something is happening in this city, we cover it.
In order to do that, we need to be able to continue operating, obviously.
It doesn't take much to figure that out.
And that's why we need support.
212-209-2950.
Yes, Jeff.
I don't know if people are aware that...