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And this is radio station WBAI in New York where the time is just about 8 o'clock.
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Welcome to the internet, my friend.
How can I help you?
I'm interested in upgrading my 28.8 kilobaud internet connection to a 1.5 megabit fiber
optic T1 line.
Will you be able to provide an IP router that's compatible with my token ring ethernet LAN
configuration?
Can I have some money now?
Thank you.
Good morning, good evening to everybody.
This is Emanuel Goldstein, another action-packed edition of Off The Hook, as we check out the
goings on on the internet.
There's been some changes.
Things are progressing in various directions.
Nothing new on that New Mexico law we were talking about last time, but here's something
interesting.
You know, a lot of people have been visiting the 2600 website in search of the latest hacked
websites.
Occasionally, mischief makers get in and do things to, I don't know, various governments
around the world.
They kind of like turn their webpage into either an advertisement boasting of their
own amazing hacking skills, or as in the case of East Timor, something a bit more political
where it really embarrasses the government over there and makes them very angry.
In fact, some hackers could face the death penalty for some of the things that have been
going on.
There is one site that has been doing this.
It's called www.hacked.net.
We just got a story about this one.
Hacker site closes for renovation.
Independent hacker website hacked.net has gone dark, leaving the text FIN, which if
you don't know means the end, the over, complete, kaput, no more.
Hacked.net version 1.0, FIN, that was his closing statement.
Hacked.net's editor and webmaster, who goes by the code name Root, yeah, we all know about
50 people named Root, I think, promised a revised site will be back after a hiatus of
about two months.
Hacked.net, which provided information about security along with news about and an archive
of individual hacks, had an unusual genesis.
Root said he was so disappointed by media coverage of the hacking of so-called spam
king Sanford Wallace's website that he decided to launch a site devoted to hackers and security.
Whoever hacked that site must have gone to bed feeling pretty good about himself that
night, observed Root.
I tried to cover it from the hacker's perspective and tried to put the motive in that perspective.
With the recent proliferation of high-profile hacker and denial of service attacks that
have sent the traditional media scurrying to cover the issue, some may question the
editor's timing in temporarily suspending his service.
But Root said in an interview with cnetsnews.com that he was afraid his site was beginning
to inspire young hackers to make mischief and that getting covered by hacked.net had
become something of a trophy.
I had the fear that our work could be misconstrued as glorification or a goal for somebody.
He said I didn't want to be the motive or the catalyst for a 14-year-old to start hacking
into some government or military site as a game while the feds were playing a different
game.
Hacked.net 2.0 will have many of the same features but with a different tone, said Root.
It will have a new perspective, a new and improved moral center.
Oh, how nice, a new and improved moral center, something we could all use a little bit of.
Yeah.
Sounds like, I don't know, the PMRC got this guy or something, I don't know.
Hacked.net was generating 500,000 to 1 million page turns per week when it signed off, according
to Root.
That's an awful lot.
That really is an awful lot.
He refused advertising in third-party affiliations to prevent the appearance of editorial bias,
he said.
This was a labor of love, said Root.
There was no other motivation behind it.
The site's hacker's eye perspective was validated when hacked.net itself was hacked several
months ago.
The intruders didn't do any damage, Root said, and they even patched a few security holes
on their way out.
Well, we should all be so lucky.
But, I don't know, I get problems when somebody has to, like, attach moral meaning to everything
that it is they're doing.
I mean, we put the hacked sites up on the 2600 website because it's news, it's interesting,
and it's a statement of sorts that doesn't really harm machines all that much.
Now, in cases of things where damage is done or something really stupid or racist or sexist
is said on the site, you don't pay attention to that.
You ignore that kind of thing.
But something that, like, you know, the East Timor or the NASA or something that communicates
a statement using somebody else's resources where no real harm is done except for embarrassment
where the system is preserved, it's not destroyed, I just think that's something worth paying
some attention to.
After all, they get increased security out of it, and everybody else has a good laugh.
But what do you think?
We'd like to know.
We'll be taking phone calls in just a little while.
Also an update on some Pentagon hackers, Israeli hacker says U.S. teens were his students.
Yeah, did you hear about this one?
An 18-year-old Israeli identifying himself as the master hacker sought by the FBI for
penetrating U.S. computers says he's retiring from his clandestine work and taking up Internet
security and maybe a little personal security as well.
In an interview published Sunday in the popular Israeli Internet magazine, Voila!, with an
exclamation point at the end, he said he taught his skills to two American teens because with
his impending departure from the world of hacking, I felt it was a waste to let all
my knowledge go.
This guy should meet Shima Mora or something.
The computer whiz who calls himself the Analyzer is suspected of helping the pair penetrate
U.S. military and university computers.
The hacker told Voila! editor Gadi Shimshon in a face-to-face interview on Wednesday that
the February intrusions were his sole responsibility and that the two teens were simply his students.
The FBI has interrogated two California teenagers in connection with the hacking and has announced
it is seeking the Israeli.
The first report came February 3rd from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Plasma
Energy Lab, followed by break-ins at a series of military locations, including the Naval
Undersea Warfare Center.
They were followed by reports from NASA and other universities.
Deputy Defense Secretary John Hammer recently described the intrusions as the most organized
and systematic attack the Pentagon has seen to date.
In previous internet interviews, the Analyzer has said that the penetrations were innocent
and even helpful to their targets.
I can just see the people at the Pentagon, you know, sitting around a table worrying
about the most organized and systematic attacks they've ever seen, and all at the hands of
this mysterious Israeli guy named the Analyzer, you know, and probably about 13 years old
or something, but they're living in fear.
Anyway, the Israeli editor, Shimshon, told the Associated Press he was convinced of his
interview subject's authenticity.
He gave me information about his activities, both in the United States and in Israel, that
only the actual hacker could have known about, said Shimson, who added that he spent three
days checking his suspect's claim, subject's claim, rather, before publishing the interview.
Shimson said the Analyzer told him he would soon begin providing security to internet
servers.
He described him as a bit over 18, wearing jeans, a t-shirt, and a blue army-style coat.
When he took off his sunglasses, his eyes were red and his look seemed confused.
If you see this person, please contact, I don't know, the world's most wanted.
Shimson said the encounter was arranged by a cyber middleman he met previously in the
Israeli online community, a cyber middleman.
There you have it, the latest on the mysterious Israeli connection to the Pentagon hacking
incidents that took place in February.
We will keep you updated.
For more information, visit us at www.2600.com, or if you're more adventurous, we do pay
more attention to people who send us real mail, you know, actually like type something
out or write something and put it in the U.S. Postal Service and send it to us, you know.
We read those before we read all the email we get because we get a ton of email and we
get very few letters.
Nobody likes to write letters anymore.
Well, the address to do that is off the hook, care of WBAI, 505 8th Avenue, New York, New
York, 10018.
And now for some listener mail.
Howdy Emanuel.
Welcome to the show on the new local phone carriers.
There are so many of them and they've been around for such a short time.
Probably would be best handled on a show with longer than normal listener phone call segments.
I assume that because it's hard to utilize more than one or two carriers per location,
so even between you and your savvy crew, there's probably only a small sampling of the various
companies.
Between the various listeners, there has to be a broader sample of providers.
For instance, I just called Bell Atlantic and RCN to ask about doing a new installation.
Bell Atlantic charges $85.46 for a network interface.
RCN charges $52.25.
Of course, I don't know what their service is like.
Anyway, as you probably know, there's a listing of them in the front of the white pages in
a section called Other Local Service Providers, and that is a very interesting section to
look at.
I've looked at that section, found a lot of companies I've never heard of before, and
we'd certainly like to hear from listeners who have experience with these companies,
who would like to share the nightmares or the triumphs that they've gone through by
going someplace else other than Bell Atlantic.
And that's, of course, speaking locally.
We have lots of listeners from around the planet, but in this country, anyway, from
all different regions where different companies will serve whatever needs you may have.
And it's always good to compare, to compare the different kinds of services, because
there are things going on that we here in New York have no conception of, and that maybe
someone out in the fields of Kansas can help us figure out.
So if you know of any alternative companies, if you're using any, please get in touch with
us and let us know all about it.
Dear Off the Hook, a friend and I were manning the computer helpline at school and went surfing.
He suggested going to the White House website.
Always the first sign of trouble right there.
Anyway, he mistyped.
Instead of sending us to WhiteHouse.com, he typed in www.whitehose.com and sent us to
a porno site.
We found that absolutely hilarious.
Well, I'll tell you something, it's signed Andrew, Andrew and David, actually.
Andrew and David, you know, even if you had gone to WhiteHouse.com, that's still wrong,
because it's not WhiteHouse.com, it's WhiteHouse.gov.
The White House is not a company.
It is a government agency or something.
It's a government building, so .gov.
They're upset at what's going on at WhiteHouse.com, I can tell you that.
And the people at WhiteHouse.com are very aware of the fact that the people at WhiteHouse.gov
are upset at them.
And it's just, you know, typical of what the internet is all about.
So by all means, keep surfing away.
And I don't know about going to porn sites from school, but that's something that I'm
sure senators will have heart attacks about.
And finally, dear Off the Hook, I listen to all your shows on the internet and I enjoy
them and find them informative.
Not that long ago, I was reading about how New York City is supposed to be equipped with
a sophisticated network of police surveillance cameras, which, strategically placed on top
of skyscrapers, can monitor all of us at any time.
I was wondering if you know if this is true.
Signed Gordon.
And Gordon says, say hello to Captain Crunch for me, just in case he's listening.
Well, I don't think he is, but we'll be sure to pass on the message.
I don't know about police surveillance cameras on top of skyscrapers.
They'd have to have pretty good zoom lenses to be able to capture all of us.
But there are cameras everywhere.
Look around.
You'll see cameras on buildings.
You'll see cameras on highways.
You'll see tourists holding cameras.
You know, whenever anything happens in the world, there's always some tourist someplace
that captures it on film.
You know, people opening fire in crowds, things falling down on people, airplanes crashing.
There's always somebody filming something, so I think that's really where most monitoring
is going on, by ourselves, not necessarily by the weird cameras on top of buildings.
It's funny how, you know, we get all crazy about recording phone conversations, but you
never have to ask somebody, is it okay if I film you as you walk down the street?
You know, it's something to consider, but you are probably on film most of the time.
I don't see any cameras in here, but I'll bet at some point there will be cameras focusing
on every aspect of the radio station.
A lot of radio stations do this already, commercial stations.
They have cameras every place.
I don't know what it is they're looking for, employees stealing things or something.
Workplace, yeah, you have cameras all the time.
School buses.
Remember that school bus video where you see the kids bouncing all over the place because
the bus is, like, going down a hill out of control?
Well, that's a camera stuck in the front of the school bus.
In London, they have cameras every place.
In regular buses, all over the street, inside statues.
It's just like the prison here, you know, except it's real life.
So yeah, I guess we could have sort of a contest as to where the interesting cameras are.
Where are they hiding cameras today?
And you know, with the whole furor about babysitters abusing kids, they have this, you know, public
service so that you can watch what your babysitter is doing while your kids are home by sticking
this little, you know, pinpoint camera into a wall socket or something and spying on what's
going on in your house.
And while they say, you know, that's used for good purposes, think of all the bad purposes
it could be used for.
If your parents want to spy on you, if your kids want to spy on you, if you want to spy
on your neighbors, or the people down the street, or anybody, really.
The means are there now, so you always have to watch what you're doing.
I guess that's really what we'll be saying to each other as the 21st century approaches.
24 hours a day, seven days a week, watch what you're doing.
And speaking of being watched, you know, we've been playing around with OmniPoint phones
over the past, I guess, year or so.
And one thing that we've learned in the last couple of weeks is that that special feature
that we've reported here where you leave a voicemail message on an OmniPoint phone, even
if you block your caller ID, your number gets recorded.
Big scandal, or feature, or whatever.
I just tried it the other day, it doesn't work anymore.
They seem to have turned it off so that if you dial star six seven, your number, in fact,
will not show up.
Now, it's an interesting thing because I wanted to find out more about OmniPoint, about
how they route their phone calls.
And I thought I'd do this for this particular show tonight, where we just kind of go into
one of their, I guess, out dials is what you call it, and find out where it is it's coming
from.
Because, you know, they don't want that information to be handed out, yet they have no problem
getting your information, ignoring star six seven.
So what I was wondering was, is it possible to find out where it is that you wind up actually
making your call from when you use an OmniPoint phone, or if it's possible to actually maintain
your privacy, maintain your security.
Okay, the first thing we're going to do is call a special number we have set up so that
we can test out the number delivery function.
Now, we're going to get a dial tone here at BAI.
Do we have one?
Okay, that's not the one I want.
I want this one up here.
Can I get that one?
Okay, I think we have that one.
Okay.
It's these phones, you know.
Okay, we got this one right there.
There we go.
There we go.
Now what we're going to do is we're going to call a special line we have set up so that
we can actually see if our number is transmitted over.
Okay, let's give this a try.
Of course, it takes forever, as always.
It really takes a long time, doesn't it?
I think maybe it's not working.
Okay, maybe we have to try it again because it might not have heard us the first time.
Okay, I think it's hearing us now.
Okay, let's give it one more try.
Hello?
Hello, who's this?
This is Emanuel.
Who's this?
This is Emanuel.
No.
Oh, this is the call from 1998?
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's a new OmniPoint feature you don't know about yet.
It's like a time travel thing.
I guess you're not supposed to know about it.
Listen, you just want to leave a message, right?
No, I just want to leave a message.
Yeah, hit pound.
Pound.
Yeah.
Hey, listen, don't buy Intel.
Okay, like that on the Jets, 1998.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, shut up.
Okay, okay.
Don't buy Intel, right.
Sorry about that.
I should have known, I should have known better.
We'll work that out.
Anyway, we're leaving a message right now on,
okay, we're leaving a message right now on OmniPoint phone,
and suddenly this doesn't seem as important anymore.
Okay.
So right now we leave this message right now at this point in time,
1998 or whatever.
We should be recording the phone number, so we're going to hang up now. Okay, let's say goodbye.
And now we're going to call back. And I hope we don't get that person again,
because that would really be a pain. Maybe we could just quickly hang up on them. Okay.
Okay. Now go in. There we go. Okay, he's going to be mad, but see if we can... There we go. We
have a message. Now this message, when we listen to it, should have our phone number recorded.
Okay. Okay. Don't buy Intel. Right. Sorry about that. I should have known better.
We'll work that out. Anyway, we're leaving a message right now on... Okay. We're leaving
a message right now on an OmniPoint phone, and suddenly this doesn't seem as important anymore.
Okay. So right now, when we leave this message, right now at this point in time,
1998 or whatever, we should be recording the phone number. So we're going to hang up now.
Okay. Let's say goodbye. Okay. So we hung up, and we're going to delete this message.
To erase this message, press seven. Message erased. You have no more...
Okay. That's it. All the messages are gone. Now, what happens if we call the thing using
star six seven? Well, you know, we can't find out, because for some stupid reason...
Listen to this. On a WBAI phone system, we dial star six seven.
And you get that. And that's not what you're supposed to get. You're supposed to get a little
stutter dial tone saying, hey, you know, we, you know, we have processed your request,
and you're blocking caller ID now. But apparently, for some reason, on the system we have,
which I think is a Centric system of some sort, we can't do that. So what I'm going to do,
actually, I have a Sprint PCS phone here, and I can block caller ID on that. So we're going to
dial. You won't be able to hear the other side of the conversation,
but we're going to leave a message on this using star six seven, and see if the phone number is
not transmitted. Okay. I just hung up on that guy again. Okay. We're leaving a message now
on Sprint PCS with the number blocked. We're going to see if the number is transmitted.
Okay. I've hung up on that message, and now we're going to call in again.
Whatever year that is, that person's going to be pretty upset at us for calling all these many
times. Please enter your password. Invalid entry. Please re-enter your password. I hope he didn't
somehow change the password in the future, because we're annoying him.
You have one new message. To listen to your messages, press one. To send a message,
press two. Okay. Now, hopefully this won't give out the phone number of the phone I just used,
because, hey, you know, that's a private number. You don't want to be giving that out.
So confident am I that it will be blocked, that we're just going to go ahead and play this.
New message. Tuesday, 8, 26 p.m. I hung up on that guy again. Okay. We're leaving a message
now on Sprint PCS with the number blocked. We're going to see if the number is transmitted.
And as you can see, the number... To erase this message, press seven. Message erased.
The number was not transmitted. Okay. Great. So they've stopped using that particular service.
They no longer record your phone number when you try to block it, which is, you know,
it's good. It's honest. It's the thing to do. Now, let's try this. Let's try getting our number
live in a different way. And what we're going to do is we're going to call the 2600 Voice BBS.
Oh, you're kidding me. I need an access code for this. Hang on. I got to hack the
BAI phone system now. Just take a second.
Okay. The BAI phone system has been hacked. And no, I did not enter a code.
I'm opposed to codes. I don't like them. It implies, you know, mistrust. Here we go.
If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again.
If you need help, stay on the line, and a hacker will assist you shortly.
Welcome to the 2600 Voice BBS.
This is the phone services section. Press one if you have a string of touch tones you'd like us
to decode. Press two if you'd like us to tell you your caller ID info. Or press star to go back...
Okay. That is what we want. We want to hear the caller ID info.
2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-0-0. This is the phone services...
Okay. So as you can see, we transmit the caller ID info as we're supposed to,
and we can read it live from that particular system. Okay. Everything so far makes sense.
Now, what happens if we try and make an outgoing call from OmniPoint to a number like this?
All right. It's, uh, we're gonna try that. First, we have to
annoy our friend in the future again, and
hopefully, uh, get into the, uh, the account one more time.
Hello? Uh, yeah, I'm sorry. Please enter your password. All right.
Now, you'll notice there's a feature... You have no messages. To send a message,
press two. To change your greeting... Listen to this feature coming up,
which is unusual. To change your personal options, press four. To make a call,
press nine. That's the one. Make a call. Let us make a call and see what happens.
Please enter the area code and telephone number, followed by pound. Okay.
Please hold while I place your call. You don't have to dial one.
The time you save not dialing one really adds up over the years.
And we're calling the, uh, 2600 voice BBS system again,
and we're going to do the exact same thing.
If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again.
If you need help, stay on the line, and a hacker will assist you shortly.
Welcome to the 2600 voice BBS.
This is the phone services section. Press one if you have a string of touchtones you'd like us to
decode. Press two if you'd like us to tell you your caller ID info. Your caller ID is blocked,
meaning caller ID info was sent, but it's showing up as private.
Well, that really, uh, kind of sucks, doesn't it? I mean, the info's there.
We just can't read the info. I mean, you know, in the old days,
in the old days, what I would do right now is call myself back. Let's try that and see
if that even works. We're going to, uh, once again hook up to the OmniPoint line,
and then we're going to try and call ourselves
on the OmniPoint line. Call the same number that we just called.
Oops. Please enter your password. Okay.
Hit the wrong button there.
Invalid entry. Please re-enter your password. Sometimes our tones just don't go through.
You have no messages. To send a message, press two. To change your...
Please enter the area code and telephone number, followed by pound.
Okay, so what we're going to do is dial the exact same number that we just dialed and see
if we get a caller ID announcement. Please hold while I place your call.
Let's see what happens. Welcome to the OmniPoint Messaging Center.
Well. Please enter the 10-digit number of the person you are trying to reach.
As you can see, they're too smart for that. They somehow know when you're calling yourself,
so they route it to the general voicemail announcement. And when you do that, or at least
when you did do that in the old days, the number was never transmitted. So that was a way of not
getting their phone number. They're smart, you know. They know how to protect this information
from showing up. But, they weren't counting on something. They weren't counting on us doing a
little bit of research and finding out certain numbers, certain things that give you information.
First of all, caller ID is one technology, and ANI is another technology. So you can't
First of all, caller ID is one technology, and ANI is a totally different one.
Now, we've publicized lots and lots of ANI numbers over the past. You know, 1-800-MY-ANI-IS,
the AT&T 800 number, all kinds of things like that. They fix these things because they don't
want you to be able to just dial an 800 number and get your phone number. I guess, you know,
it costs them money or something like that. So you can no longer use AT&T to get this information.
But, there are still all kinds of ways of doing things.
And one way is to change the language that you call in as.
So, yes, let's call AT&T, but let's call them in a different language.
If you would prefer to continue in English, press 2.
I think so.
I see you're calling from 2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-0-2.
Well, how about that? So we can get the phone number by calling that particular 800 number.
Now, what happens
if, one more time, we call our OmniPoint number
and call that 800 number from the OmniPoint number?
Hello?
Please enter your password.
You have no messages. To send a message, press 2.
To change your greeting, press 3. To change your personal options, press 4.
To make a call, press 9.
Let's make a call.
Please enter the area code and telephone number, followed by pound.
Please hold while I place your call.
Oh, this is going to be fun.
AT&T.
If you would prefer to continue in English, press 2.
Are you ready?
I see you're calling from 2-1-2-6-3-4-5-1-8-4.
If this is your phone number...
We have the number.
And now, what happens if we dial that number?
6-3-4-5-1-8-4.
You have reached a number that has been disconnected or is no longer in service.
If you feel you have reached this recording in error,
please check the number and try your call again.
M-15-A-A.
Well, I think that M-15-A-A is the interesting part,
and that'll tell you something about the way they switch calls.
But we're able to get a lot more information than we were supposed to
just by messing around with A&I and caller ID.
I don't know much about the 6-3-4 exchange.
Let's see if we can get an identity on that by dialing 9-9-0-1.
Well, either everybody else in the country is dialing it,
or they don't have that particular service.
But our mission is successful.
We got the number we wanted.
And hopefully, that'll show you how easy these things can be.
Although it does take a while sometimes,
and you have to journey into different time zones and places like that.
2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-100 is our telephone number,
in case you weren't able to gather that by what we've been saying,
all these demonstrations that we've been calling.
And you can give us a call no matter where you are right now,
either over the internet, another country, or right here in New York City.
So give us a call, 2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-100.
The program is off the hook.
We're on for another 22 minutes or so.
Oh, which line should I take?
I'm going to take this one.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Hey.
How you doing?
How are you?
You know what?
I just called my local exchange, 2-3-8.
And what was that, 9-9-0-1?
9-9-0-1 tells you the switch.
In New York, anyway, it tells you the switch that you're using.
I've got to tell you something.
I think you ought to call the 718-238-9901 because Elvis lives.
I'm going to tell you that.
I think you really ought to try it out.
Is this the thank you very much one?
Thank you very much.
Yeah, I think I will try that.
I've heard that one before.
I want to tell you one other thing.
A couple of weeks ago, you had a guy on.
I think it was regarding a website.
And was it Nabisco?
I think it was Oreos.com.
He was running it from Ontario.
I got to tell you something.
I got a real estate online sales or something.
Right.
I got very angry.
I was trying to call you guys and I was very pissed off because I really feel like,
why didn't you guys simply say that there should be a boycott?
I mean, who are they to dictate to this guy?
And the idea of a boycott, the old-fashioned idea of a boycott
never once, no one ever mentioned.
Well, you know, I mean, especially with the Internet, this is a very valid thing.
I mean, economically speaking, just don't buy their damn cookies.
You know, you're right.
We're too mild-mannered.
We don't say enough strong things.
Well, thank you very much.
Well, thanks for calling.
But that's a good idea.
You know, boycott them.
I haven't heard anything new, actually, from our friend up in Ontario.
Yeah, you made an offer, didn't you?
And hang on, Isaac here made an offer.
You didn't get a reply.
Yeah, I emailed him.
I offered 20 bucks on the air and haven't heard from him.
Actually, I'm not sure if you're allowed to do that, offer 20 bucks on the air.
I didn't say it myself.
Oh, OK.
Well, now you did.
OK.
Then again, I somehow told people that was indirect.
I told people not to buy Intel, but I haven't even done that yet.
So I have to make sure that never happens somehow.
OK, we're going to call that 718 number here, Elvis.
You have reached the 77th Street DMS 100.
Serving codes 238-439-492-567, 630-680-745, 748-833-836-921.
Thank you very much.
OK, all right.
All right.
I guess you got to be a little crazy to work for Bell Atlantic.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Hello.
How you doing?
Let me turn my radio down real quick.
How you doing, guys?
Pretty good.
Pretty good.
Listen, you were talking a couple of months ago when you called the prisons and they tell
you cannot use freeway calling.
How do they know that?
How do they detect using freeway?
There are signals that are sent.
Actually, you know, it's interesting because using OmniPoint, I was able to see quite a
few things on my display that I didn't know was being recorded.
For instance, if somebody calls you on a line that then gets forwarded to you on your display,
it'll say forwarded call.
And yeah, you know, you don't hear anything when you're calling.
You just hear a ring.
You don't know your call is being forwarded, but it does.
The signals are being sent.
So there's other low frequency tones that are being sent to tell you that the thing's
happening?
Well, it's not being sent over the voice path.
It's, you know, it's the signaling that's going on.
But it's yeah.
I mean, any kind of call being placed can be designated as such.
Can you find the protocols?
Is there an open network?
You probably have to look up GSM because that's a GSM switch technology for OmniPoint.
But for SS7, for regular switching, look around on the net.
There's all kinds of technical books you could read, you know, things from Bellcore.
The only way to get around is to take two telephone lines and tie them together mechanically.
Yeah, you know, but some prisons actually listen for the sound of ringing or the sound
of a dial tone, things like that.
And that's how they get you.
A lot of them don't, but a lot of them do.
And they're concerned about that.
They do listen for that.
Yeah, they want to control, you know, who people talk to.
OK, thanks, guys.
All right.
And everything that happens in a prison is really a model for the future of society.
It's something you should all beware of because, you know, control is the name of the game.
That's what it's all about.
Good evening.
You're on Off The Hook.
Good evening.
I have a couple of friends that have Bell Atlantic.
Every year, Bell Atlantic sends them a new phone.
My question to you is, is there any place that I can get rid of them?
Well, wait a minute.
You mean they're sending you phones that you don't want?
Well, every single year when you renew your contract, they send you a new phone.
What contract is this?
I don't have it.
I have AT&T, but a couple of my friends have Bell Atlantic.
And every time they renew their cell phone contract...
Oh, cell phones, OK.
Yeah, I guess the phones are so cheap they can probably afford to do that.
But you don't want these phones.
You have your own phone.
No, we have no use for them.
I mean, you know, like I said, every year they send a new phone.
And, you know, we have a whole collection of these old phones.
They're practically brand new.
Well, what you do is...
You have a garage, sir?
Yeah, sure.
All right, have a garage sale.
Or if you don't want to do that, go to a computer show like Trenton Computer Show.
It's coming up in April.
Go to that.
And you can unload anything there.
Well, let me ask you a question.
If I decide to hook up a service with, let's say, AT&T,
and I walked in with a phone that I previously had from Bell Atlantic,
will they allow me to use that phone?
Or am I going to be forced to buy, you know, an AT&T phone?
If they're reputable, they should allow you to use the same phone or the same type of service.
In other words, you know, GSM phones can be used on GSM service,
you know, CDMA on CDMA service, which I believe both Bell Atlantic and AT&T are.
So you shouldn't have any problem.
Although I haven't used either one of those services, I can't say for sure.
But, you know, by all means, give it a try.
Appreciate it.
All right, let us know what you find out.
All right, thanks a lot.
Take care.
Yep.
212-279-3400.
Let's go all the way over here.
I haven't pressed this button, I think, in a month.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi.
How you doing?
Um, what you got?
I was wondering, you know, about the boxing and everything.
Yeah.
Are there any boxes that still work today?
By boxes, you mean things like red boxes, blue boxes?
Yeah.
Green boxes, white boxes.
Well, there's all different kinds.
They do different things.
You know, like a white box is just a, you know, a touch tone pad.
A beige box is just a way of, like, you know, clipping onto a line.
The blue box is the most sophisticated of them.
That allows you to actually get into the nitty-gritty of the phone system and route things.
And that's really, you know, what people are, who take a true interest in phone freaking,
are into.
Yeah.
Red boxes still work.
That's, like, the easiest thing in the world to do.
You hold a, you know, something up to a phone.
It says beep five times, and the phone thinks you put a quarter in.
Big deal.
You know, that's not exactly, you know, rocket science there.
But the fact that they've taken so long to even try and fix these things tells me that
it's not hurting them very much, and that they're probably getting a whole lot more
money from people who actually put quarters into the phones and pay inflated rates.
Oh, because I hear that phone companies are changing their tones.
That makes them, like, not be able to work anymore.
Well, what they're doing is they're muting out hand pieces, mouthpieces rather, so that
you can't hold the box up to the mouthpiece and play the tones when it's asking for them.
The other thing they're doing, they're replacing a lot of, excuse me,
a lot of pay phones with the equivalent of co-cots.
Oh, okay.
What that does, you know, they use a totally different form of, you know,
communicating that money is being deposited.
The intelligence is in the phone, not in the switch.
I mean, when you put it, when you play a red box tone or put a quarter in,
whichever you decide to do, you're communicating with the central office.
The central office says, hey, this is a pay phone line.
Therefore, I must ask for money every time somebody makes a call.
The phone is stupid.
The pay phone itself is stupid.
It just is communicating with the central office.
But the co-cots have all the intelligence right there inside them.
But, you know, the flip side to that is that they're connected to the central office
on just a regular phone line.
So if you clip into that regular phone line,
it doesn't know that it's a pay phone on the other end.
Oh, I see.
Okay.
All right.
All right.
Well, thanks for your help.
All right.
Thanks a lot.
Take care.
Hopefully, you'll use that knowledge in a constructive way.
Good evening.
You're on Off The Hook.
Hi.
Two questions about the three-way calling.
Yes.
First, a follow-up about the guy who said about calling the jail.
When you make a three-way call, you can connect before the third person picks up.
Yeah, but you see, when you flash, that is the signal that you're sending.
You flashed already.
Like, let's say I call you, right?
Right.
And together, we decide to call, you know, Bernie S when he was in jail or whatever.
Right.
While the prison phone is still ringing, I flash and we both hear the last ring.
First of all, you can never call a prison phone.
You have to get a call from a prison phone.
So we wouldn't be calling a prison.
Okay.
That's the problem right there.
Yeah.
Okay.
I understand that now.
All right.
Okay.
The second question is about the technical limitations of this.
You know, I know in a lot of office phone systems, you can have, like, infinite conference
calling.
Is there any, like, technical reason why Bell Atlantic or 9x or whatever couldn't offer
more than three-way calling?
Well, it's a question of confusing the consumer.
Because when you use three-way, you're not pressing any special conference buttons.
You're simply hitting the flash hook.
You know, you're flashing and then you're connected to somebody else.
How would you connect to another person?
You'd have to flash again, but maybe you want to disconnect and not connect to somebody
else.
Yeah, it's possible.
I suggest using ISDN for something like that because the phones are more sophisticated.
Right.
I see.
So it's really just, like, the cultural impediments.
It's not like it would be impossible to do over today's lines, right?
Basically, almost nothing you can think of is impossible to do over a phone line.
I see.
As long as the need for it is there.
And you'll find the need is there in businesses, but it just hasn't manifested itself in residential
service yet.
I see.
Okay.
Very good.
All right.
Take care.
Thanks a lot.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
You're on Off The Hook.
Hey, how are you doing?
Pretty good.
How are you?
Not too bad.
I wanted to tell you something.
I got a letter, an interesting letter.
Actually, it was a phone call first, but then I got the letter from OmniPoint.
Uh-oh.
They told me that...
Not to do what we did tonight, right?
No.
Yeah, they actually came in the mail just now.
No.
Actually, what happened is they said, do you own an OmniPoint account?
And I said, no.
And they said, well, you know, someone's using your name, your address, your phone number,
and your work number, and your social security number, interestingly enough.
Really?
And that's kind of all we need to start up an account.
But we kind of sniffed some smoke here, so we decided to call you.
So I said, well, great, because I don't want $200 bills coming from the Philippines.
Did they send you mail saying this, or did they call you saying this?
No, they called me first, and then they said, we need written confirmation that you really
didn't want this.
So I sent that off.
But then they also...
The interesting part was they also recommended I call my credit bureaus for obvious reasons.
Right, because they have to check your credit line to get that phone.
Right.
And they did say that OmniPoint had looked at my credit report.
And they also...
The funny thing was, I think there's three of them, Expedia, Experian, and Jusptrw.
Right.
And two others, TransUnion.
TransUnion, yeah.
Equifax, is it?
Equifax is the other one.
Okay.
Equifax was funny, because they said, oh, let me guess, you're calling from New York.
And I said, yes.
And they said, tell me that OmniPoint called you.
I said, OmniPoint called me.
Wow.
And they said, oh, you know...
These people are psychic, aren't they?
Well, I said, how do you know this?
And they said, well, you know, we're getting like 100 of these cases a day from New York
and New Jersey.
You don't say.
Someone's out there with a bank of names, addresses, phone numbers, and social security
numbers, and just going down the list.
Well, you know, I heard of this happening to somebody with Sprint PCS as well.
So this could go well beyond OmniPoint.
This could be something that's affecting every PCS carrier there is.
This is probably true.
So, okay, they have your name, they have your address, they have your social security number.
They have my home number and my work number.
And they also, for good measure, threw them a bunch of phony numbers that don't make any
sense.
So let's say they got, you know, a number from the Department of Motor Vehicles or something,
because everybody has to give their SSN to them.
Right.
I'm just wondering what, like you're wondering right now, where the source could be.
Yeah.
Well, I'm saying it could be that.
It could be a school list.
Did you go to a school or anything?
I was thinking, actually, they looked in the telephone book, but they wouldn't be able
to get the SSN number.
No, that's not listed yet in the phone book, but one day it will be.
But the whole point is, no, I don't, I mean, I haven't been to school for about a few years.
So who have you given your social security number to recently?
The only place I could, the only other place I could possibly think of was that they might
have gone into the net.
But I can't recall ever giving out a social security number on the net.
No, you'd have to be a confounded fool to give your SSN out on the internet.
Exactly.
But how many people give out their email address one time and then start complaining about spam?
Yeah, it's true.
Well, your email address gets given out all over the place, so you don't have control over that.
But you generally have to give somebody your social security number, and you don't remember
doing this to anyone.
I don't remember doing it to anybody other than what you said, the DMV.
How about, okay, how about this?
How about the phone company?
Because they often ask you for your social security number.
You don't have to give it to them.
Yeah, but I've been in this house for about 10 years now.
Have you changed phone service at all?
I've gotten an ISDN line.
Did they ask for your social security number when you got it?
I do not recall that, but I wouldn't be able to say that on your own.
Uh-huh.
So I'm not sure, but I did change to an ISDN.
Speaking of which, just segwaying just for a minute before I let you go.
Did you finally get your ISDN line?
Oh, you haven't listened in a while, have you?
No, I haven't.
That was a couple of years ago.
Yeah, we got it.
Me and Fiber were having sort of a contest, and it took us both about six months to get it.
Wow.
But you know, today, it's much better.
You can get an ISDN line in a couple of weeks.
I think Bell Atlantic did improve some service.
Well, NYNEX was already improving because they were, like, learning what ISDN was.
Exactly.
And now Bell Atlantic came in.
They already knew, so they sort of, yeah, traded information, and now they got it down.
Well, Bell Atlantic impressed me a lot because they actually have ISDN service
south of New York, ISDN network, internet service.
So they actually have ISDN Pops, which I don't think NYNEX is going to get,
even with Bell Atlantic's help for another three years,
which kind of tells you a little bit about what NYNEX is.
You know, maybe that's not, you know, a bad thing, necessarily.
I don't know if I want the phone companies controlling that.
Listen, if you brainstorm this out, say it on the air, because I'd like to know where it came from.
Right now, my biggest suspect is the phone company,
because they have all that information already.
They have your phone number.
Was your number unlisted?
Well, my number is unlisted.
And they had it anyway?
They had the number anyway.
Okay, well, that's got to tell you something.
Well, it has been unlisted recently, so I can't really pin it on that.
But the funny thing is, they must, you know,
it wouldn't be so bad if it was an isolated case.
Maybe they found, I don't know, an application lying around and decided to use my number.
But when you start hearing about hundreds of cases of BCS cloning,
then you've got to wonder that they must have a hard disk somewhere with a bunch of names.
That makes sense.
I mean, I'd heard this from somebody else.
I thought it was just an isolated instance, but I couldn't figure out why.
This gives a little more information that something like that is going on.
So yeah, it's just another wake-up call.
Don't give that information out to people, because it can be misused.
Especially if you can just get an account like that.
It's really weird.
Anyway, thanks a lot.
All right, take care.
Never give your social security number out to the phone company or to anybody,
except maybe, you know, the social security people or, you know, whoever it is.
You know, government-wise, it really has a use for this kind of thing.
I guess banks, you know, because they report income.
But the phone company?
You know, why does Sprint need my social security number?
It's crazy.
Good evening, you're on Off The Hook.
Yes, I want to answer a question.
A previous caller?
Okay, you can easily access anyone's SSN number through the telephone company,
phone repair.
Like, you could just, if you get the number, you could just say,
oh, I have a problem on my line or whatever.
Once the phone repair order was put through,
and you could pretend you're, like, what do you call it?
Those repairmen?
And through them, they would give you all the information.
But what do repairmen need your social security number for?
Well, actually, they just ask for everything to underline.
And the people that, the operators, they wouldn't care.
They just give everything out.
No, that is definitely true.
I can attest to that.
But one thing, how about this?
We're assuming that somebody who doesn't work for the phone company,
what if it is somebody who works for the phone company,
doesn't have to ask anybody?
They can just copy the file.
Yeah, that's true, too.
And a lot of them do that, believe it or not.
It happens in the IRS.
It happens in the phone company.
It happens, any, you know, bureaucracy, any organization has corruption within it.
I mean, I'll be honest, when I was younger, in my teen years,
I used to phone freak a lot.
And I used to access a lot of people's social security numbers through your telephone.
That's actually, it's an educational thing to see how easy it is to do.
Yeah, the security is very, very cheap.
It's stupid.
Right, so that's why, you know, we have to take the, you know,
the first step in keeping our private information private,
because they're not going to do it.
That's right.
And in many ways, you can block yourself, actually.
You can tell them, give them a three-digit PIN code and tell them,
do not reveal any information on my account without someone verifying the social security number.
Even on phone repair, when you dial 601,
you tell the operator on the bit, you know, the regular business number,
and you let them know that no type of repair service or whatever
can go through your line without them calling you first.
You don't have to ever give them your social security number, though.
That's something a lot of people don't know.
And, you know, what they might do is they might say,
okay, well, then we're going to have to put a cap on your long-distance spending for,
you know, six months.
You know, that's okay.
That's better than having your private information thrown all over the place.
And DMV, they don't have any security at all.
Yeah, you know, here's the thing, though.
DMV, it's now required by law to give your social security number.
I mean, it's not as bad as some states where they actually print it on your license.
Yeah.
But the fact that they make it required that you give this information,
that information can be gotten very, very easily.
Exactly.
It's not a good thing at all.
And once you have someone's SSN number, you can access anything,
where they work, where they live, their home telephone number,
their new telephone number if they happen to change their telephone number.
That's right.
You can access anything, and that's what's going on now.
So they have no security whatsoever.
DMV said a lot of people should be careful with this,
giving out their social security number to DMV and actually ask them,
see if they could do this, prevent anyone accessing their information
without, you know, a first and last name, a address,
or a work number where they could be reached at.
I mean, that's what I usually do.
And they tell me I have to speak to the supervisor about that and whatever.
They're trying to get back to me.
You just got to be careful.
That's really the only thing that we can advise.
Anyway, thanks so much for the warnings.
We got to go now.
Isaac, you have something you want to pass out to the world in general?
Yeah, if that fellow with Oreos.com is still out there,
if you get in touch with me, IndigoZebraAlphaAlphaCharlie at 2600.com.
Sounds very cryptic there.
Yeah, Isaac.
Anyway, I'd like to host the old site,
maybe even give out some free email forwarding service or something like that.
I mean, you know, I'd like to do something good with this.
If the cookie police haven't gotten to it already.
Yeah, really, I mean.
But they also make cigarettes, though.
Yeah, our general business goes into great stuff.
Right.
So if you're out there, give me an email.
Sounds good.
And that's going to do it for us this week.
Another edition of Off The Hook is History.
We'll be back again next Tuesday night at 8 o'clock.
Till then, Emmanuel Goldstein, have a good night.
And keep your private information private.
We couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bundy limo for the best, expect the worst
I hope that's understood
Bundy limo
Bundy limo
Bundy limo
Bundy limo
Bundy limo
get on the bus for Jericho 98
on March 27th.
Join us in Washington to demand freedom.