0.5 FM in New York City.
And this is radio station WBAI in New York.
The time is just about 8 o'clock.
It's off the hook time.
It's off the hook time.
And very good evening, this is Off the Hook, the program that teaches you everything you need to know about your telephone and your computer and the networks and what Big Brother is really after.
This is Emanuel Goldstein, fiber optics over there.
I'm over here.
Oh, great. Everything works except for that minute of dead air we just had.
Everything is working just fine in the brand new studio.
Today's New York Times has a story about second phone lines.
The days when keeping up with the Joneses required a high capacity station wagon, not a high speed modem.
Having a second telephone line at home was a luxury necessary only if a family had several teenagers.
But this year, the single biggest, the biggest single year increase in new residential phone lines in the United States since the end of World War II.
Seven million households have had additional lines installed as several information aid forces have ignited into a social phenomenon.
And now it is often the parents who are tying up the lines, driving the demand.
What do you think about that?
I think that if only they knew about ISDN, they'd have four lines instead of two.
If they knew about ISDN, they certainly wouldn't have an increase this year because it would take them six months to install it.
Yeah, but it would be well worth the wait.
Yeah, I guess so.
But, you know, as I speak to you now, I kind of wish I'd never gone with ISDN because I'm having so much trouble just establishing connections with those antiquated 9X trunks.
Things are falling apart and just getting things to work.
You know, we've been trying to do an experiment where, you know, the only way for us to call from point A to point B is to go through point C and forward a line.
9X has been trying now for two weeks to install call forwarding on a line, and they can't do it.
They just can't do it.
They don't know why they can't do it.
They just can't do it.
And it's that kind of incompetence that has been sort of the theme of this whole ISDN business.
Well, it seems obvious to me 9X is not giving Long Island any priority whatsoever.
No, I don't think they are.
I don't think they are.
You should complain.
I think 9X is giving New Jersey priority because they're thinking of the merger that's ahead.
I get plenty of priority in Manhattan.
Yeah, well, that's because I don't know why that is.
I don't know.
But you seem to have found the right people.
Yeah.
You know, you can just call somebody and have something taken care of and have something wiped out at a thought.
Yeah.
Just disconnect this phone over there, please.
They were mean to me.
No, nothing like that.
No?
Well, it's good to know people in 9X.
If you know people in 9X, you can get a lot done.
Well, if you know people that can actually do things in 9X.
That's true.
Well, this is an interesting editorial that was just handed to me moments ago from a magazine called Data Communications.
It's one of those magazines you're not sure if you've ever heard of before.
Very nebulous title.
Yeah, because, you know, Data Communications, yeah, it sounds like something you should know.
But then again, is that a magazine or what?
I don't know.
I'm probably offending them if they're listening, but I'm sorry.
That's just the way the name is, you know.
I just don't know.
Data Communications of November 1995.
This is from page 142.
So I guess they must be doing pretty good.
Hackers.
Uh-oh.
Yeah.
It's the sort of word that should be whispered stealthily out of the corner of the mouth.
How do you do that?
Hacker.
Hackers.
I don't know.
Keep your eyes straight ahead.
Don't let on that anything's wrong.
Slowly, very slowly, reach for the speakerphone and get security on the line.
See if I can even do that.
Security!
Yeah.
That's our little play for tonight.
At least that's the way most net managers seem to react when they hear the dreaded H-word.
H-word.
The H-word.
Oh, yes.
But in the new global free-for-all that passes for business as usual,
the hacker community could prove to be a corporation's greatest asset.
Consider this, if you will.
The smart use of technology is what separates winners from losers in the information era.
Who best knows the tricks of the illicit access trade?
Who can teach companies how to protect themselves against technological snooping
and point out the chinks in their security armor?
Surprisingly enough, given their penchant for privacy,
it's not that hard to track down these experts at infiltration.
About 400 self-described hackers, crackers, encryption breakers,
that's what they define hackers as, crackers rather,
and freakers, telephone system hackers, did you know that?
Attended the recent DEFCON 3 conference in Las Vegas.
Recent?
Well, I guess it was August, wasn't it?
Was that DEFCON 3 or was that DEFCON 4?
Three.
That was three? Okay.
I lose track.
Contrary to what most net managers would expect,
the real purpose of DEFCON 3 wasn't to share hacks or conduct tutorials
on bringing down the phone system.
It was to win money at the gambling casinos and get in for those of us under 21.
Hackers already communicate anonymously using public key encrypted security.
They don't need to come to Las Vegas to compare notes.
No, DEFCON 3 was a chance for hackers to meet their peers,
to associate a face with a cryptic handle, to share a beer, a handshake, or a joke.
In other words, these talented young people were looking for professional association
and community behind the stereotypical image of the hacker
as a socially backward arrested adolescent computer nerd.
I guess that arrested adolescent takes on two meanings there.
Yeah.
Unfortunately, we're real people who wanted to become part of something larger than themselves.
For a few business people or...
The door light is flashing.
I guess let's just let them in.
I can't hear them.
There, come in.
We have a new door light here.
Whenever the light flashes, it means somebody's there,
but if the microphone's on, you don't know who it is.
It's a real security feature there.
A few business people or networking industry types attend DEFCON.
They think the conference lends legitimacy to the hacker community.
In fact, one representative of an Internet firewall vendor...
Have you ever met an Internet firewall vendor?
They're funny. They really are.
Oh, yeah.
You need a firewall on your system.
That'll keep everybody out, including you.
It's pretty silly.
The whole concept of firewalls itself is rather...
Everybody's is better than everyone else's.
Yeah.
250,000 hackers failed to get in, right?
They didn't know it was there.
If you say it's there, we don't know that there's anything behind the modem.
It's just like a modem connection or maybe an IP address doesn't really go anywhere.
It's really pretty silly.
Anyway, one representative of an Internet firewall vendor
was severely criticized by his peers for setting up his product
and challenging the hackers to break it.
No one, according to this man, had ever done so,
and he was willing to offer a hefty prize to anyone who could.
For a firewall vendor, exposure to the hacker community was like the ultimate field test.
He wanted to discover any weaknesses in his product
before it protected classified or sensitive data.
Well, you know, that's all fine and good,
but we say if you're really that confident,
give us a list of your customers,
and then we'll see if we can break into any of those.
Corporate America has a lot to learn from this lone vendor.
Hackers obviously have tremendous insight into the design and development of security systems.
That alone makes them fantastic network security consultants.
Are you a fantastic network security consultant?
Fantastic.
All right.
Particularly in a project's requirements planning phase,
a hacker can help any company gain insights into a network or application
that demands stringent security,
and once an application is in place,
hiring known hackers to conduct intrusion testing
is perhaps the most effective way to discover weaknesses.
Of course, many organizations will be reluctant to trust these sorts of tasks to hackers,
but when treated with respect and given guidance,
most hackers, like the rest of us,
respond to the challenge and responsibility of a professional position.
Hiring hackers does entail risk,
but so does ignoring the unauthorized access problem.
Hackers can perform an even more important role in the vendor community
in the design and development of new security products.
In an industry where product life cycles are measured in months,
a savvy hacker can be a source of spontaneous and innovative thinking.
Think about it.
Who's more likely to come up with a revolutionary approach?
A cookie-cutter group of engineers and MBAs,
or a gang of cunning hackers
who live for the thrill of cracking tough technological problems?
Ah, yes.
Appropriately enough, the theme of DEF CON 3 was,
Why? Because we can.
This is a wake-up call.
It's time to harness the minds that can.
Besides, if legitimate businesses, governments, and other organizations
don't enlist the hackers' help,
who will?
The Russians.
The Russians will, yes.
The, uh...
I don't know. Who's evil today?
That's just it. There's a dearth of enemies.
We don't have enough enemies, so we can't really say.
But I guess the child pornographers will,
because they're the most evil people.
They need to protect the pictures.
Everything these days is because of child pornography.
That's the whole Exxon bill thing.
I was reading Broadcasting and Cable magazine.
Ever see this magazine?
Never heard of it.
It talks about broadcasting and cable
and all kinds of things that affect them.
They were talking about the communications bill,
which is very, very close to being passed,
although it's being sort of postponed a little bit.
The general thought is still that it's going to be passed
within a couple of weeks.
And they were saying about this V-chip
that was going on about a couple of weeks ago,
how various, all the networks actually,
all the networks, people who produce TV programs,
are required to voluntarily rate their programs.
Think about this.
That's what it actually said.
They're required to voluntarily rate their...
I mean, what's voluntary about that?
They're required to do it.
It's not voluntary. It's mandatory.
You know?
They're saying this with a straight face.
So, you know, this is the kind of law
that they're putting into effect here
that we're voluntarily going to have to do.
They'll do it if they know what's good for them.
Yeah.
Can you imagine?
I mean, what would they rate this show?
Why not rate radio shows too?
They're going to rate TV shows.
It's a lot easier to censor a radio show than a TV show.
I don't know.
Or is it?
Well, I don't know.
It's kind of hard.
I mean, some weeks, you know,
we're positively G and other weeks we might even be R.
You know, I think usually we're like a PG-19 or something.
I don't know.
I mean, who's to come up with these things?
I think you should rate it based on your own criteria.
Yeah.
Like, stupid people, no.
This is not for you.
Yeah.
You know, something like that.
You know, intelligent audiences only.
Please listen to this.
Why not?
Yeah.
And then if you get insulted by it,
you'll listen out of spite.
And then you get more listeners that way.
It's ingenious.
But this whole rating system is just,
it's categorization.
Whenever you have categorization, that is bad.
You categorize records.
You put a sticker on all the records with lyrics
that might make people think a little too much.
And all of a sudden, you know,
certain record stores say,
well, we don't carry records with those stickers on them.
And they just, you know, wipe the whole thing out.
Just remember, there's two types of people in this world,
us and them.
That's right.
Well, which ones are us?
We're us.
Really?
They're them.
Okay.
I have a surprise here.
Surprise, really?
I have a surprise.
It's actually a present.
It's a present for you.
For me, personally?
A present for you personally.
Wow.
So get ready, because I'm going to throw it across the room.
Okay.
All right.
This is something that actually is pretty unique
and pretty rare at the same time.
I'm going to hold it up from a distance,
and you're going to tell me if you know what it is.
Okay.
What do you think that is?
Um...
Now, I just threw it at you, so...
Okay.
Now you're going to tell me what you think.
Oh, it's a Captain Crunch whistle.
It's an original Captain Crunch whistle.
Wow.
Does it work?
Well, let's try it out.
Let's try it out.
You have to hold down.
Don't get too close with this,
because we've been trying to figure out what the other tone is.
If you hold one hole, you get 2600,
and if you hold another hole, you get another tone,
which we don't know what it is.
Okay.
So just don't go too close to the microphone,
because you'll blow out all the equipment, but...
Go ahead.
You've got to blow hard.
That's 2600.
That's 2600.
Blow that really hard, facing away from the microphone.
Okay, I wonder how much electronic equipment
we've disconnected somehow.
Try the other one.
Oh, the other one.
Now, what's that?
That's...
That's just a whistle?
Yeah, it's just a...
But keep in mind, this thing came out with no intention of...
Right.
...of controlling the phone system.
It would have been cool if they made the other 2400.
Yeah, that would be nice,
but they just don't think when they do this.
No.
This was back in the 60s.
Yeah.
I guess the mid-60s or something?
Yeah, probably.
You want to describe what this thing looks like
for people that are not fortunate enough to have one?
It says a Captain Crunch bosun whistle,
and I guess for people that are unfamiliar,
a bosun whistle is those whistles they use on boats...
That's right.
...to, like, signal the presence of the captain
and all that nonsense.
Yeah.
But I guess you could signal all kinds of things
with this whistle.
Not just the captain.
That's true.
Now, what does it look like physically?
Physically, it's red.
It's red.
It's a red box or...
Yeah, it's got a little hole in it
so you could hang it around your neck.
Yeah?
Yeah.
For convenience?
And let's see.
It's got Captain Crunch himself on one side,
and it's got a little dog on the other side.
I guess this is his seafaring mascot.
I guess.
That dog never really made it
because you see a dog in the Captain Crunch boxes.
But, yeah, they soon stopped giving those out
when they realized what they did to the phone system.
And I guess that's how Captain Crunch
out in the Bay Area got his name.
Yep.
Getting that cereal and plunging his hand into it and...
That's how he got his sweater.
He wears a red sweater all the time.
Is that so?
Whistles red.
I'm just guessing.
Well, that's a little bit of history for...
Yeah.
...for the people out there.
That's great.
Anything else happen of history or of note this week?
Let's see.
Being a holiday week and all.
Of notes.
It's been kind of slow.
Well, I got my phone bill,
and lo and behold,
there was one of those 9x newsletters in it.
Oh.
First page about the attention on net surfers
and all that business.
Net surfers.
About getting ISDN, yeah.
So they're actually pitching ISDN today.
Yeah, it seems like they're rolling out full force now.
Uh-huh.
And did they say anything that was wrong or...
No.
They said nothing wrong,
but they didn't say anything new.
Okay.
So there's no new word on whether or not
they're going to eliminate that penny a minute charge.
Uh-huh.
I've heard nothing new about that.
Interesting.
On our front over at 2600,
no news from PSI as far as their...
What should I call it?
Their campaign of terror.
I guess that's the best way to say it.
Where they're trying to charge us
for an entire year worth of non-service.
But you can visit our webpage and learn all about it.
And, in fact, if you missed it last week
where they say they offer a service
that they don't, in fact, offer,
then you can just click onto that
and it'll automatically play for you
and it's kind of neat.
If you just want to get a copy of what's going on
without hearing all the bells and whistles,
then you can e-mail or...
Actually, don't e-mail.
No, finger the site psi at 2600.com.
Actually, soon you'll be able to e-mail it.
It's not going to reply if you e-mail it now.
But nothing new.
They've been very quiet on that.
I don't know.
We'll just keep waiting to hear.
But in the meantime,
a stern warning to those folks out there
looking for Internet access.
Be careful.
Be forewarned.
There are elements out there
that will sell you things that don't exist.
And then you'll be expected to pay for them
when you find out they don't exist.
The forces are at work to thwart your net surfing.
That's right.
What do they call people that try to thwart surfers?
Sharks?
Net sharks.
Net sharks.
There you go.
Although, I think someone else took that name.
Really?
I don't know.
212-279-3400 is our telephone number.
Okay, what I'm going to try to do now
is go into delay.
Except this is the new board.
We're in the new studio.
And I might get this wrong.
So it's possible when I hit this button
we'll start hearing ourselves a few seconds later,
and we'll get all confused.
So what if we don't start seeing ourselves a few seconds later?
No, I think this is working.
I think this is working just fine.
Okay, I guess we're in delay.
I mean, I thought it was going to be a little harder than this,
but sometimes things are a little too easy.
Okay, well, you press that button
and something's supposed to happen.
I press the button and nothing happened.
I wonder what happens if I press the button again.
I'm going to press the button again.
Oh, I pressed the button again, and now...
No, now we're delayed in the studio.
We're delayed in the studio?
Yeah.
How could that be?
No, you see, okay.
We are delayed in the studio, true.
Right.
But on the air, we're not delayed at all.
Do you understand?
No.
Okay, right now...
This is going to drive us nuts because...
This is going to drive us nuts.
You're right.
I have to...
Maybe the other way around?
I have to switch the headphones into delay mode.
Right.
Until I figure that out,
we're going to hear ourselves seven seconds later
every time we say something.
I'll figure it out.
I'll get it.
Reinforcements are coming in.
The time lords have just surfaced.
Ah, program.
Okay, there we go.
We're fine.
Now, how did that sound over the air?
Was anybody aware that anything was wrong?
Genius.
Not until you told us all.
Okay.
You see, to us, here in the studio with our headphones on,
we kept hearing ourselves seven seconds later,
and that can be awfully disconcerting.
It's good to know there's a SWAT team out there
to help us out every time something happens.
Okay, so we've had a minute of dead air already,
and we've gone to delay and gone with it.
So we've got to be really careful what we do around here.
Okay, we have a full bank of phones ringing.
212-279-3400, tell us your experiences,
your wishes for the new year,
because this is our last show of 1995.
That's true.
Are you going to be at the Bryan Park festivities for ISDN?
What festivities?
We talked about it last week.
We did?
The ISDN marvels that 9X will be unveiling.
Oh, that's right, yeah.
Where's Bryan Park again?
Well, we still haven't figured that out,
but we know it's around here somewhere.
Yeah.
It's by the New York Public Library.
Oh, really?
Where's that?
We never get out of this place.
We know they're all down there.
Oh, it's that newly renovated park?
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, we'll have to be there.
Okay.
Yeah, because I don't know how they're going to get things going.
We'll witness the wonders.
Somebody helps them plug things in.
What's the ANAC for Manhattan?
It's 958, guys.
Just dial that, and everything will be cool.
All right, phones are ready to go.
Let's take our first phone call,
which will probably be Rebel, but we'll take it anyway.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Yes, Emmanuel.
Hi, Merry Christmas.
It's amazing how you can predict some things, isn't it?
Yeah.
I just want to thank everybody who's been e-mailing me
with support of, you know, like the way they like what I say on the air,
and they find what I mention,
and my discoveries they find helpful and useful,
and I encourage people to keep sending me e-mail.
My e-mail address is rebel at escape.com.
Rebel, are you running for something?
What is this, a campaign?
No, I'm not running for a political office.
Well, why do people have to voice support for you?
I don't understand it.
No, I've just been getting e-mail saying,
I like what you say on the air.
What do you say on the air?
You know, about my discoveries and things like that.
People ask me questions on, you know, things that I've mentioned,
and I also have a little website up.
I mean, I'm sort of trying to get it up.
You have a web page, you mean?
Web page.
You have a web page.
Rebel web page.
That is rebel.
It's hard to say.
Rebel web page.
Rebel web page.
You can't say that.
It's escape.com, and then there's the, you know, it's http www.
What does that mean, anyway?
Hypertext Transfer Protocol, World Wide Web.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Who taught him this stuff?
You did.
Oh, okay.
Then there's the slash, and then the tilde, which is right next to the one key.
Now, wait a minute.
It's not always right next to the one key.
Sometimes it's in a weird place.
Okay, well, the tilde is that little squiggly thing.
I can't describe it over the phone.
It's a Spanish accent type of a thing.
But anyway, there's that, and then there's rebel, and then there's another slash,
and then there's HTML, index.html.
Oh, yeah, everybody in the studio has got their pens out.
And also, I'd like to ask, on the DMS10s, I remember in upstate when I went to school,
they had a DMS10 for the small single exchange that worked as a host of the DMS100,
which was in another town.
Why is that?
You have it backwards.
The DMS100 is the host.
Right, the DMS100 is the host.
Yeah, the DMS10 is the remote switching module.
Right, why is it set up that way?
And then, like, when you call it, it doesn't have the SS7.
It takes a little longer for it to ring.
DMS10s came about as rural switches that are used in really remote areas.
I've seen a 5DSS in a remote area.
Well, that all depends on how much money the phone company was willing to invest in that area.
DMS10s are really good to stick in a cabinet or a shack in a remote location
where they tend to not have to have people there in person too often.
I see.
And then the host where all the billing is done is on the DMS100?
Exactly.
Okay.
I remember you talking about hackers.
There's a phone that you can make free phone calls in the NYNEX payment center.
I told the phone company about this, and they were amazed.
I said they wanted me to fax them my resume.
They were trying to have me get in there.
They're trying to have me.
They want me to go work there.
I told them that I applied before, and this person is going to try and get me in there.
I gave them the 2,600 article I made.
I told them about the radio show.
Hopefully, he's listening now.
But I told them about everything.
What do you want to do for the phone company?
I think a good job would be like customer service maybe, like what the business office does,
or something technical like what this guy does.
He's the line manager or something.
He gets all the problems.
I guess he's like the troubleshooter or something.
So I guess they need somebody that knows the system because the guy said that his boss said that,
we'd like to have you in the company because we need somebody to...
Got that cohort there, huh?
Yeah, that cohort there.
Well, now, that's quite a prospect, having you working for the phone company,
dialing zero and maybe getting you.
And you could still dial zero and get a 9X operator to dial an 800 number,
and A&I will not be passed.
Okay.
You have to say that you have operator privileges.
You know, Rebel, you've been saying that now for a couple of years.
Why don't we try it?
I'm going to put you to the test here.
I'm going to actually see if you can put your money where your mouth is.
We're going to give you a 9X operator.
What 800 number do you go?
The 1-800-CALL-ATT.
Okay, let's do that.
You're going to connect us to 1-800-CALL-ATT.
Right.
All right, hold on a second.
Let's see if I can get this phone system to work right.
I'm going to hit the...
Why am I hearing Rebel seven seconds later somewhere?
Because I'm on delay and you're not.
No, but I'm hearing you in my ears somewhere.
I don't know how this is happening.
Don't forget to put them on hold.
I have to put them on hold first?
Yeah.
Okay.
Do I hit the CONF button?
No.
I thought I hit the CONF button first.
No, I thought you put them on hold.
Yeah.
You pick up another line.
Yeah, then you hit CONF.
Then I hit the CONF button.
Yeah, and then you bring them back.
Okay, hold on.
Let's put them on hold.
Okay, he's on hold now.
Right.
All right, now we're going to press the other button and then hit the CONF.
I think you pick up a free line.
Okay.
We have a free line here.
Yeah.
No, I don't think there's a free line here because I don't hear it.
Do you?
No, I don't hear a dial tone.
Okay, let's try this one.
No, there's no dial tone there either.
There's dial tone.
Okay.
And now we – do we dial first or do we hit CONF first?
You should be able to CONF first and right in.
CONF and hit him.
Okay, now we're going to dial.
I'm here.
All right.
Okay.
For some reason, I touched on this button.
Wait a minute.
Let me do something.
Why don't you do it?
Whoops.
All right, you have to dial 9 first.
This is what you've got to do.
I forgot.
Okay, do it again.
How do I get rid of this now?
Okay, hold on.
I've got to put them both on hold now.
Okay, I'm going to get rid of that one and then I'm going to drop this one.
I'm going to get the dial tone back.
Right.
Wait.
There we go.
CONF and there.
Go ahead.
Hit 9 and then a 0.
And then a pound to make it go through faster.
How about that?
The things you know.
Hi, this is Carol.
Yes, I have operator privileges.
I'd like to dial 800-225-5288.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Very nice.
Very nice.
That was Rebel's operator privileges there.
May I have the number you're calling from, please?
Yes, the number I'm calling from is area code 212-958-1234.
How can I help you?
I'd like to call area code 212-279-3400, collect.
Thank you.
That line is restricted, sir.
No collect calls are permitted there.
Oh, okay.
Thank you.
Thought you could get us there.
Well, okay.
Hold on.
Let me get rid of this.
Hold on.
Okay, go ahead.
All right.
Now, if that call had gone through, Emmanuel, if that call had gone through, you, let's
say that was your number, you would not get a bill.
I mean, on your phone bill, you would not get a bill.
Well, wait a minute.
I would accept a collect call.
You would accept a collect call, but you would not get charged for it.
Why would I not get charged for it?
Because notice I said that my number was 212-959.
No, you said 958.
958, which is a number that doesn't exist in the 212 area.
Well, that's true, but they're not billing that number.
They're billing my number for accepting the collect call.
Right, but it can't say called from.
They have a database where in every area code, every exchange, that works.
So 959, 958 is not in that database, the 212.
So when they enter that, it can't...
Did that operator know what part of the country you were calling from?
The AT&T one?
Yeah.
I don't know.
Could you give her, say, the Pentagon's phone number?
You know what?
Let's try giving her another area code, like 202 or 213.
Let's give her California.
All right, this is going to be kind of...
She knows what area code.
Does she know what area code?
Then why did she say what number you're calling from?
What's the last seven?
Let's see what happens, and if she balks at 213, say, oh, I meant 212.
Right, okay, that's a good idea.
Three and a two are so close together.
Because sometimes you can get operators from, like, the south or the midwest.
Yeah, sometimes you can.
How does that work?
All right, let's do one thing at a time.
Hold on.
Okay.
All right, I'm getting the hang of this here.
Okay, we've got a...
Okay, 90, go ahead.
You want me to do it?
Yes.
You know, you can't do that?
I don't think our touch tones are loud enough.
996A?
Yes, I have operator privileges, and I'd like to dial 1-800-225-5288.
Thank you, and have a nice evening.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
May I have the number you're calling from, please?
Oh, the number I'm calling from you want?
Yes.
Oh, yes, area code 213-958-3891.
Thank you.
How may I help you?
Oh, I'd like to call 516-959-1230.
And your billing, please?
To collect.
Thank you.
I'm sorry, sir, they have a block on it, no collect calls.
Oh, okay.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Well...
That's interesting.
That's very interesting.
Hold on.
Okay, I think we got rid of it.
Okay, are you there?
Yeah, I'm here.
Now, we can give any phone number in the country, and...
I wonder what happens if you say you're calling from, like, international?
Like, you know, like the 888 area code?
I think that's something that they'll figure out.
What if you say 710?
I don't think that'll work either.
But the thing that you've proven is that any area code works, any legitimate area code works.
Are you surprised, Fiber?
Yeah, I'm actually kind of surprised because they should be getting the area code.
Yeah, I noticed because when you do...
You know what you do?
Have the 9X operated dial 1-800-MY-A-N-I-IS.
Yeah, but you still need that code.
Well, I have the code, but I won't disclose it.
Yeah, but you'd have to disclose it.
That's the only way you could possibly do it.
But that's something that I think you should try on your own and report back to us and let us know what happens.
Well, hold on.
Do we have any other 800 numbers?
800 numbers?
The ANI?
We don't know any offhand here, but...
Well, we're going to have to move on anyway, but thanks for the lesson and the valuable tips that you've given us tonight.
Okay.
All right. We'll talk to you next time.
Okay.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Whoops.
Yeah, I cut that person off. I'm sorry.
Okay, I guess I should be using this button there.
Okay, good evening. You're on the air.
Hello, Emmanuel.
Yes.
Nice to speak with you.
I've come across some very interesting things of late.
We call it an out-of-area call that would show up in my caller ID box.
Once in a while, I hear what sounds like an office in the background.
Like someone left the phone off the hook, and I'm hearing people and office paper shuffling in the background.
During the recording?
No, no. It's right after it clicks.
Really?
Yeah.
Another thing, too. You were talking about the DMS-10s being outposts for DMS-100s.
Here's a little tidbit.
I came across in a college out in Pennsylvania when I was on a conference vacation.
AT&T actually made the number 3 crossbar up until 1973.
There was a particular point where AT&T actually had a sense of confidence in their crossbars.
They were actually making them into the 70s.
Another thing I've come across is the Roam CBX phone system.
This is while I was out on a conference vacation.
I was trying to get a way to interface my V32 modem to the phone system.
Obviously, I knew it was digital. I don't go plugging in modems in digital.
I'm going to have a smoked modem.
Some kid from Oregon figured out that he could take the outermost pair from the handset
and splice the pair from the modem into the outermost pair of the handset,
raise the volume all the way to maximum,
first dial out normally, and then once he dialed out normally,
he could pretty much use the modem with no problem.
That's all I wanted to let you know about that.
That'll work with the CBX-9000, right?
I believe so.
Oh, there's some very interesting codes.
I was reading through the book while I was there.
Apparently, I think it's like star-8-5 or star-8-6 or 8-5 or 8-6,
but it's a very strange thing.
Like what?
I have no idea.
The codes were not listed, but it gave me some strange taunts
like I was looking for some kind of passcode.
Oh, well, yeah.
They have forced passcode dialing on Roam systems.
There's all kinds of things you can hit.
You get two high-pitched beeps, right?
Yeah, it's trying to know what the frequencies were.
It's looking for a PAC code of some sort.
That's standard on all those systems.
Oh, the lowest frequency on the Captain Crunch whistle
is about anywhere from 2,000 to 2,100 cycles.
That might actually be a guard tone from the old systems.
Well, I don't think so because why would that be on a Captain Crunch whistle?
Well, I don't think it has any purpose being there.
No, I'm just saying that I remembered that, you know,
I have almost perfect pitch, and I recognize, you know,
2,000, 2,100 might have been a guard tone
from one of the older variants of R1.
Do you want to blow it again?
If I was going to blow it again, and you can hear over the phone
and then run to your radio seven seconds later,
you'll hear it there too.
Okay, here comes the second tone.
Here we go, second tone.
A little higher because C is 512, I think 525 cycles,
the octave above is 1050, 2,100, 2,200,
because that's definitely over C.
Uh-huh.
Okay, well, thanks for the call.
Definitely.
All right, take care.
You're saying that we're getting noise out of the speakers
seven seconds later?
Yeah, we're getting noise out of the speakers.
Oh, how about that?
Well, if our engineering staff is listening outside,
the speakers are talking to us seven seconds later,
and we can't make them stop.
All right, good evening.
Oh, look at that.
They hung up.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yes, Emmanuel.
How are you?
Yeah, I just wanted to know,
does any of you remember the old diversity dial systems in New Jersey?
Describe them for us, please.
Well, they were seven-line chat systems that ran on Apple IIe's some years ago.
Well, they weren't just in New Jersey.
There were a whole bunch of them.
There were some in New York as well.
Yeah, well, I just wanted to let everybody out there know that
anybody that remembers Barb, who ran D-Dial 35 along with Flash,
she passed away this past Wednesday.
Oh, that's too bad.
What were those systems like, not having ever actually used one?
Oh, they were very well.
I ran one myself for a number of years.
Very nice system.
How many people could be on them at once?
Seven.
Seven was the max.
As a matter of fact, there's one in Illinois that's still running to this day.
Do you have a number for it?
Yeah, 708-432-9028.
Okay.
All right, we're jotting that down.
Thanks so much for the information.
No problem.
Take care.
Have a good New Year.
You too.
Bye-bye.
Yes, 1996 is just a few days away.
Right around the bend.
Is anything promised for 96?
I mean, last year the big thing was the area codes.
I mean, we seem to have survived that pretty well,
with the weird middle digits now.
Yeah.
Although nobody knows, you know, what's, I think 757 is now going to be Puerto Rico.
I think that's what I heard most recently.
That's one of the more easy ones to remember,
but there's all kinds of crazy ones out there in Florida and California
that I don't think people are ever going to remember where area codes are anymore.
They're getting smaller and smaller.
Although New York seems to be pretty safe for the most part.
You know, no two-on-two split is imminent yet.
Yeah.
But it will happen at some point.
Then you have 2-1-2 and, like, you know, 7-9-3,
and you'll have to remember which is which.
So those days of easily remembering a number by area code are soon to be over.
96, though.
Anything nationwide caller ID is already here.
Right.
Although it really isn't all the way here.
In little spurts.
Right.
We'll probably have the communications bill hitting us pretty hard.
I don't know quite what that's going to do,
how they're going to enforce something like this.
But we're going to see some rather interesting test cases, I think,
and we might even be among the test cases.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Hello, Emanuel.
It's me again.
Who is?
I thought Puerto Rico was 3-4-0.
No, no, no.
No, I don't think so.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that's what I read.
I remember reading it a while back.
It was one of the issues of 2600.
I've probably heard some weird ones, like I got friends down in Sunrise,
Florida, just a stone's throw out of Fort Lauderdale, 954.
Yeah, 954.
Atlanta has got an overlay code, or did it split as a 770 land code,
or is that still an overlay code?
I think that's not an overlay.
I think that's a regular geological.
That's a land code.
Yes, I believe it is.
92, I'd spoken about this earlier,
that it was a split around Atlanta in the northern part,
which became 706, which we grabbed from northwest Mexico.
Right.
And from what I hear, before 1998, New Jersey,
the 201 area code is supposed to split.
What's going to happen is 201 will only cover Passaic, Bergen, Hudson,
Essex, and an eastern sliver of Morris.
Everything out to the west of it will probably be given an XXO designation.
And even 609 is splitting.
Now, how it splits, I don't know,
but I know 609 is made up of two ladders,
the Atlantic Coastal and the Delaware Valley.
It may split along that line.
You might be interested in this.
I just heard this this past week.
880 and 881,
two area codes that will be run in parallel with 800 and 888,
so that you can get 800 calls from outside the country.
So, in other words, let's say you're in Mexico or Canada or something like that,
and you wanted to call 800-222-0300, which is 18 degrees.
International toll-free inward?
Yeah.
You would dial 880 instead of 800 as, I guess, the city code or the area code.
The thing is, you wind up paying, but so does the person picking up the call.
It's sort of like a split.
It's not totally toll-free, but it's not totally a toll call either.
There's something weird around my area.
One I would do is this rumor about this 1-700 local number thing being MCI discount long distance.
Now, this is a real nasty trick.
You can use, like, you have caller ID, and, of course,
the person with caller ID is smart enough to have anonymous call rejection.
So let's try to force a call out of the area by dialing star-67, a 10X code,
the one area to code the number.
The trouble is, if you're in a local call area,
that you want to get in the message,
I'm sorry, it is not necessary to use a long distance access code when dialing this number.
Well, just for the hell of it,
I had seen a posting in the net several months ago about,
what is this 1-700 local number thing?
I just tried it out just for the hell of it.
I would dial myself star-67 and then the number,
and I wouldn't get a busy signal.
I'd get routed to the anonymous call rejection message.
I tried dialing star-67, a 10X code of my own number.
I would wind up getting,
it is not necessary to dial an access code for this number.
Then I did star-67, 1-700, and my local number,
I got a busy signal,
which meant the caller ID and anonymous call rejection
both had been subverted by just dialing that 1-800-MXX-XXXX.
So it knew, well, actually, is that using ANI or is that using caller ID?
I have no idea, but all I know is I tried it with a friend of mine
who has caller ID and anonymous call rejection,
and the call went through and it didn't show up on its box.
It showed up out of area.
That's interesting. I do know this.
It only works from switch to switch.
I'm not sure if this is related, but it might be.
I've played around with 800 numbers going through various different companies.
If you dial your 800 number from the number that it's routing to,
even if you have call waiting, you'll get a busy signal,
meaning it's interpreting it as if you were calling yourself locally,
which means it has to be getting that information,
even though you're going far away to do that.
Yeah, well, I'm just saying it's one way to protect one's anonymity.
But I noticed it only works on certain switches.
I have a friend of mine who lives north of me,
and his particular switch, which is a local call away from me,
it doesn't work there.
He tries calling his own, and you get the,
your call cannot be completed as dialed.
Right.
Well, it depends on a lot of things, I guess,
including where you are, what your central office is programmed to do.
But there are ways of subverting the system.
There's something else, too.
Where I work, if you dial 111, the dial tone gets louder.
But if you try dialing 111 again, you get a reorder.
Really?
Yeah, it's almost like, you know, the newer Bell pay phones,
you've got that volume adjust,
but this is actually done through the central office.
As I was just going through it at one day of work,
testing out a modem, and all of a sudden I got a second dial tone,
and I thought I came across a ringback number,
but I, you know, I flashed the switch hook,
and I just got a normal lower volume dial tone again.
Are you sure it's the same dial tone when you dial 111?
Yeah, because the only thing is that 958
doesn't seem to work at that office anymore.
Apparently it's, I get the, doot, doot, doot, doot.
It's definitely not a reorder.
It's a single frequency.
It almost sounds like, you know, like a malfunctioning answering machine.
Is it coming from your PBX, or is it coming from the central office?
I have a Panasonic module electronic switching system.
I like the acronym, and it spells out because it's exactly that,
and the lines coming in now are not haunted
because I can call all of them,
and I don't get the message that we've been, you know,
this line has been disconnected,
which is typical when you call a number in a hunt group
that's associated with a main number.
So this is just all calls coming in
because I would go through all 12 lines,
and I got all the ANAC readbacks,
but I noticed that this particular office,
you dial 111, and the dial tone gets louder.
It's like some kind of volume adjust.
You sure it's not your mess doing that?
No, because I have a regular outside line
coming to my fax machine and my modem at work,
and I would dial 111, and it gets louder.
That's a mystery, but...
It's certainly a new one for me.
I'm sure if you, have you tried dialing 112?
I've tried all that, and I think after that I just got all reordered.
I know some places, specifically up in Fairlawn,
their central office, if you hit a pound sign, you get a reorder.
Well, yeah, that can happen.
Oh, yeah, that's fairly normal.
My particular office,
this is just for the hell of it, don't do all the pound code.
Pound XX, or Octostorp XX,
is that like for Centrix functions?
That's for nothing functions.
There shouldn't be pound anything.
Well, no, there are some central offices.
I would dial pound XX, and I would get this.
We're sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed.
Please check your manual or call the business office for assistance.
For Inteladar, for instance,
pound followed by a number is an intercom call.
Pound first, not star?
No.
Oh, really? I didn't know that.
Because they ran out of star things.
There's too many star things.
Because normally, if you hit pound without hitting any digits before it,
normally it will give you a reorder.
And if you dial something,
if you dial a two-digit code and hit pound that doesn't go to anything,
usually you get a recording.
Over here, you get just a lot of,
we're sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed.
Right.
But, you know, the only way to do it is to play around in different circumstances,
in different central offices.
I'll give you an example.
There's a certain central office, I won't say where,
but it's in the area, it's in the listening range,
where if you dial a certain three-digit code from a payphone,
only from a payphone this works,
you wind up disabling the payphone for a half hour.
Now, that's something.
That's kind of like 553 over in Jersey.
I know, I'm the fellow who's always talking about waltzing busy,
but I do that to my friend all the time.
Quick, call me back about 553-NXXX,
and all of a sudden,
da-da-da-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba, you know,
he just blows his head, you know, he gets all mad.
But, yeah, they're like 480 or, you know, 450.
Some of those have different reactions in different places,
so trying them in different environments
can yield you some interesting results.
All right, that's all I wanted to speak about right now.
Okay, thanks for the comments.
Cool, bye.
All right, most interesting.
When was the last time you scanned out an exchange?
Not in quite some time.
It's getting more challenging
because all the exchanges are being filled, you know,
there's so many new phone numbers.
But I guess with the new area codes,
there's more phone numbers to be had,
but it's hard because there's less universal numbers,
950, things like that.
Not very many, not very many left.
I think, what was that one we saw being allocated recently
in New York, 412, I think?
In New York?
Yeah, that exchange seems to be popping up everywhere.
I think it was 412 or 814 or something like that.
There was an 811.
No, it wasn't that.
It was an 811.
No, this was a new exchange,
and since area codes like 516 hadn't,
and 914 hadn't required one before area codes
in other areas,
having an exchange that was, in fact,
an area code as well was not possible.
So, something like 412 popping up statewide means something.
We don't know what,
but it's popping up in a lot of places.
Little things like that,
but you've got to be on top of it
to find the new exchanges before they actually hit.
Well, weren't 450 and 480 assigned?
I don't...
Those used to be the dead phone thing on crossbars.
Right, and it still is in some places.
I think on the island they still exist.
You won't see that on any digital switches, though.
Right.
What's especially funny, though,
is exchanges like 540,
which can cost you maybe $75 a call
depending on how they program it,
over in Jersey, it's a regular exchange.
Right.
So that can be very confusing.
People in New Jersey beeping someone over here,
they're never going to get a call back
because people are going to assume they're being swindled,
whereas some people might accidentally
not dial the 201 first and pay through the nose.
212-279-3400.
You were playing with your cough button before.
You want to test it out?
Oh, yeah.
It just turns the mic off.
Well, talk while you write precedents
and see if it actually turns the microphone off.
Okay, I'm on this mic.
Yeah, it went off.
It went off, and then it fades back on.
And what's talk back?
Hit it.
The only way to find out is to hit something.
Well, try talking now.
I'm talking and nothing's happening.
Well, release it then.
And am I back?
It must be a button for talk back,
which is the program we have on in the afternoons.
I don't know what they do with it,
but they got their own button,
so they must have a lot of weight.
What's that fourth button?
Off.
What?
It turns everything off?
No, it doesn't work.
Okay.
Thank God for that.
And every microphone here has one of those,
except they're too far away from the people sitting at tables.
You can barely reach them.
Oh, they don't have the talk back.
It seems like only I have talk back.
You're the only one with talk back?
Yeah.
Okay.
That's the premier guest mic.
Oh, yeah.
So I'm not quite sure what that means.
Maybe when you're talking back to me,
if you're giving me some lip or something,
you press that button,
and it sort of adds echo to your voice or something.
I don't know.
All right.
212-279-3400.
Our listeners have no buttons,
but they do have a phone line.
And we can put them all on hold,
but I think it's more fun to just pick them up as they come in.
Yeah.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Here we are again.
It's you again.
Yeah, it's us again.
Well, I just tried that thing with 800 ANIs,
and I had the Nynix operator dial it,
and what I got was your ANI is 212-0000-0000.
Well, how do you like that?
So they got your area code.
So the operator we got before must have been some kind of a fool
to accept 213 as your area code.
I don't know.
I guess so.
Well, I guess maybe if she saw seven zeros,
she might not have had much faith in the 212.
Well, no.
Wait a minute.
The operator did not see seven zeros, I don't think.
I think she just would have saw an ANI failure
and just asked what your number is.
Maybe so.
Yeah, I don't think she would see a partial number.
Rebel, I think the best thing for you to do is to call someone collect
and have them accept the call.
Which I did.
I just did.
Okay.
And see what number shows up.
No, no.
I did this with my own phone.
You think you'll never get a bill?
No, no.
I didn't.
I called myself collect with a saying that I was calling from 212-958.
Okay.
And I never got the bill.
But try it this way.
I tried doing it with another number.
Okay.
Listen to me, please.
Okay.
Now, first try it with a nonexistent number.
Then a minute later, try it in the same exact circumstances
with an existing number of somebody famous or some entity someplace
and just look for the bill and see if you ever get a bill
with the real number on it or with both numbers on it or with no numbers on it.
I tried that, and it did work like that.
What happened?
I recorded the time and date of each call that I made.
I made a log of what number I said that I was calling from.
Okay.
And I got only the number.
Like, I made two calls.
One call I said that I was calling from a nonexistent number,
like 212-958 or something.
Then I said that I was calling from 212-279-9901,
or something like that.
I gave a 9901.
I remember that.
And then it showed up on the bill as New York City, New York,
212-279-9901.
So the call did go through?
Yeah, because the exchange exists.
It only matters when the exchange exists.
I see.
So in this way, you can prove that President Clinton called you collect
by waving around your phone bill that shows his phone number calling you
and you accepting the charges.
Right.
Okay.
Well, that's something.
That's quite a project to undertake.
I don't know.
That's something I think that people involved in prosecuting various criminal cases
should keep in mind when they look at phone bills,
that they can be forged, and not just on paper,
but in reality they can be forged.
But when are they going to get caller names?
They're not the nationwide caller IDs here.
Aren't they going to reprogram the operative computers to pass it?
Because I know in New Jersey they do it.
I tried this in New Jersey, and the ANI is passed.
Well, I guess 9X is the answer.
The fact that we have 9X means that it takes a little bit longer.
I don't know.
Is that a valid assessment?
Yeah, definitely.
In fact, 9X said that they're going to be rolling out a caller's name delivery
as well.
It's about time.
I mean, the rest of the country already has that.
Not that I'm really eager about this kind of thing,
but I'm just saying if it's technology that everybody's playing with,
we might as well get to play with it, too,
and figure out ways to thwart it.
When are they going to make it so that the caller IDs pass through the operative?
Because I know that that's not passed through the operative.
And when you dial a 950 number that's not passed?
I mean, they have no ANI either.
Well, they never planned on passing ANI through a 950 number.
That's why it's a 950 number.
Right, but you can make free phone calls that way by dialing 950 access code,
and you can make a collect call that way.
Sometimes they'll tack a number onto the bill.
Like, in other words, I'll dial 950, let's say, 1003, which is Amnex.
They'll give you a second dial tone.
1003 is RCI.
I'm sorry, 037.
I'm sorry, that's Amnex.
And they'll give you a second dial tone.
At that dial tone you're supposed to dial a phone number, a seven-digit number.
I could dial 959-1230.
Right.
Now, I think sometimes they'll tack a number onto your bill.
I've done this.
I've gotten a call from Georgia, and, you know, they said that, oh, it's a pay phone.
Yeah.
So, I mean, they sometimes tack numbers.
Like, when I use the phone in a train or on a plane, like one of those air phones,
or while I'm flying somewhere I'll use an air phone with my credit card,
or I'll be, like, on one of those rail phones.
That number that's calling from, if I charge it to my regular bill, you know, 9X calling card,
they'll put a number on it, like a number in the 202 area code.
Well, no, that's a valid number.
Those are the numbers that those cellular phones are attached to.
They don't accept incoming calls.
No, no, because I did 1-800-my-A-N-I-S, and I got the phone number of the phone,
but I got the phone number of the actual phone that I was calling from, your 1-800-my-A-N-I-S,
and it did not match what I was calling from when I got the bill.
Well, it's not necessarily the same number every time.
Yeah, it depends on who's on at what time.
It depends on where you're flying over.
It depends on any number of things.
They can change within minutes, within seconds even.
But, you know, here's a project that I think you might find interesting.
Next time you're on an Amtrak train or next time you're on an airplane someplace,
when you use those air phones, calling information anywhere in the country is free.
It doesn't cost anything.
So you could easily pay for your trip by getting a list of phone numbers
or names of people you want numbers for,
charging them, say, only $0.60 instead of $0.85,
and spending the whole time on the phone.
I should tell that to U.S. Air.
Well, don't tell it to the airlines, or they'll start charging.
But that's one thing which I can't understand,
and it's rare that I can't understand why they don't charge.
So, in other words, I could use my bill-operating calling card or a credit card,
and it will not be billed to it?
Information will not be billed to it.
They charge it for 800 numbers.
They charge it for 800 numbers, that's correct, but they don't charge you for information.
No, but the information will not pass you to the number that you're calling.
No, they won't have those neat little recordings that say for an additional $0.35.
No, they won't do that.
Listen, Rebel, we have to go and take one more phone call, but thanks for the information.
All right.
All right.
We'll try to fit in one more phone call.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Hi.
How are you doing?
I'm just wondering if you can help me with a problem we've been having in calling Peru.
Calling Peru?
Yes.
Do I know the country code for Peru?
No, the problem is that they say that the country is blocking all calls coming in from our area,
and we've had relatives 50 blocks down call and they can't get through,
and we've had relatives from Connecticut call and we can't get through.
Are those Maoist rebels up to something?
No, they said it's due to fraud.
Oh, okay, I know what's happening.
How are you making your phone call and through what company?
Walt.
I'm sorry?
Walt.
How do you spell that?
Oh, those W-A-L-D people.
Who's W-A-L-D?
That's the Working Assets Long Distance.
Ah, okay.
Well, then what do you need to do since they're apparently blocking calls
because they believe every call to that country is fraudulent,
simply ride it through another long-distance company, 1028?
No, no, I think it's them.
They say that the country is blocking it, not them.
No, that's not possible.
They want to block my call.
Because apparently their rationale, and I have to wrap this up pretty quickly,
their rationale is that the vast majority of calls coming from your area to that country
are calls that they will never collect on,
so they'd rather not get your business than take a loss.
Well, it's happening on AT&T as well.
Not for 1+.
They can't block for 1+.
For 0+, they've been blocking.
For calling card calls, they've been blocking, but not for 1+.
Why don't you dial 10288-1 or 011?
What is that, 1?
10288-011 and then country code, city code, number.
Wait a minute.
120.
No, 10288.
10288.
1-0-2.
8-8.
8-8.
And then 011.
011.
Then your country code, your city code, and your phone number.
Okay, fine.
That should go through.
We'll try it.
All right, good luck.
Let us know.
Thanks.
All right.
And that's going to do it for us here tonight.
It is now history.
As soon as I find my theme music, we can be on our way out of here.
There it is.
Okay, we'll be back again next week for the first show of 1996.
Thanks, everybody, for listening, and thanks for all the information.
We'll see you next week.
Take care.
Have a happy new year, and maybe we'll see you at the marvels of ISDN
in Bryant Park on New Year's Eve sometime.
Take care.
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And you are tuned to listener sponsored.
Oh.
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Coming up now is Housing Notebook as it is 9, 9 p.m. in the evening.
Land low, land low, low down, rotten, good for nothing.