Now I can't make a call, it couldn't get much worse, but if they could they would, Bundy Lee Bumper the best, expect the worst, I hope that's understood, Bundy Lee Bumper!
Bundy Lee Bumper!
Bundy Lee Bumper!
Bundy Lee Bumper!
You gotta learn, you gotta learn, you gotta learn how to dance this fast.
The internet is at our throats, and multinational corporations want a big piece of it now, but the people got there first.
How's it all going to work, you know? If things were done a little bit differently, it wouldn't look like it does today, that's for sure.
Now with the knowledge that we have, we can keep things in a rather democratic way, you know, everybody has the power of the individual.
Or we can turn things over and have it be like our telephone system, where you charge for every little thing.
Anything is possible, it's all up to us.
One thing I've learned is that we have an awful lot of power.
Well, throughout the two hours that we're on tonight, we're going to be going over some things that happened in the world of technology.
We're also going to be telling you the Fiber Optics story.
If you listened last week, you heard the last show with Fiber before he was sent to prison, and now he's there.
And we took him there, and it's quite a story.
So we'll be telling you all about that in the next hour or so.
And hopefully we'll be getting a lot of people calling in, showing their support to WBAI to keep us going for the next year or so, or however long it takes.
Our number is 212-279-3400, that's the number we need you to call for pledges.
We have a special offer for people listening to Off The Hook.
This is the only time we're going to be on during the marathon, so this offer only holds for tonight.
It's true.
And the offer is a subscription to 2600 Magazine for a pledge of $75, if you call at 212-279-3400.
It's not so much calling to get a subscription, it's calling to help out the radio station.
It's calling to make sure that we're here and that we can continue to bring you important news events, important technological advances, and all kinds of things that you just wouldn't hear anyplace else.
No, you wouldn't.
And I challenge anybody to find another place that brings you this kind of information.
So, that's our phone number, and hopefully we'll get some people calling in fairly quickly.
Our grand total so far is zero, and we're going to be looking at that, hopefully not at that, but we're looking at the number that will be rapidly changing over the next two hours.
All right, time for us to take a look at what's been happening around the world.
And all kinds of neat things have been going on.
If you read the papers, if you play around with your phone, you'll learn stuff yourself.
Let's take a look.
This is from the Washington Post of December 26th.
Entitled, 1993, the year of the weird.
The Syracuse Herald Journal has reported that its telephone hotline featuring excerpts of the presidential debates last fall was successful, except for one glitch.
Ross Perot's voice sometimes hit a pitch that mimicked a certain telephone tone that automatically shut down the whole system.
The Washington Post, we're not kidding.
Imagine if he was president how many times that would be happening.
How about this? This comes from the Guardian of December 21st.
They report the conviction of a male nurse who hacked into a hospital's computer system and modified entries including prescriptions.
Now, it's kind of annoying here because they refer to the person throughout as a hacker, which any of us who are hackers ourselves know is completely bogus.
They say the hacker prescribed drugs normally used to treat heart disease and high blood pressure to a nine-year-old with meningitis.
He prescribed antibiotics to a patient in a geriatric ward.
These drugs were administered to the patient with no apparent adverse reaction.
He scheduled an unnecessary x-ray for a patient. He recommended a discharge for another patient.
The hacker, in quotes, gained access to the computer system after learning the password by observing a doctor who was having trouble logging in.
This is the good part. He qualified as a nurse in 1989.
He is reported to have undergone a considerable personality change as the result of a road accident in 1984.
As well as developing a fascination for computers and other high-tech equipment,
he had apparently developed a, quote, lack of sensitivity to the consequences of his actions, unquote.
It's the same thing that a lot of computer hackers are accused of having or not having, compassion and concern for the consequences of their actions.
But you won't find hackers doing these kinds of things.
You won't find hackers breaking into hospitals and changing dosages on computer systems, on patients.
You just won't find, because vast, vast majority of hackers have some sense of value.
There is a hacker community out there, and that sense of value is instilled there.
Look at this story. Who did this? Was it a hacker? No, it was a male nurse.
I mean, I guess his sex is kind of irrelevant, but he was a nurse.
A nurse that had access to the computer system.
No hacker. Just somebody with a grudge.
Somebody with inside information.
Somebody who knew how to work the system. Somebody, perhaps, who had contempt for his job.
That's what it boils down to.
Whenever you see a newspaper article like that, where they call such a person a hacker, call them up and give them a piece of your mind.
Anyway, he pleaded guilty to unauthorized modification of computer records.
He offered no explanation for his actions, but denied any malicious intent.
He was jailed for 12 months.
Now, don't you think that's kind of ironic?
This guy that could have killed somebody, literally could have killed somebody,
prescribing medicine that shouldn't be taken by certain people,
discharging people that shouldn't be discharged,
performing all kinds of pranks with people's lives.
He gets the same amount of prison time as the person you've heard on this radio program for so long,
who everybody said didn't do anything malicious.
Didn't do anything to hurt anybody.
Didn't do anything to damage anything.
Just was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
That's how it works.
As I said, we'll be getting into that story, that saga of fiber-optic going to prison,
and we'll let you know how things are going.
What else is happening?
Well, three Britons have been charged with conspiracy and a 2.5 million pound
Europe-wide credit card fraud.
That's about 3.7 million dollars.
The article says that the Birmingham men are accused of having used fake credit cards,
and they stole expensive products in France, Britain, Belgium, and the Netherlands.
Apparently, other arrests have been promised.
See, in England they promise arrests.
They're good on that.
And once again, we see that one of the world's most frequently used network access control tokens,
namely the common credit card,
is wholly inadequate to protect the public and the banking industry against fraud.
Now, how about this? Here's a story from Alan Wexelblatt.
This is a contribution to the Risks Digest.
It's one of those stories that you could swear you've heard before,
but you know you're going to hear it again.
My bank has installed one of those bank-by-phone services.
You call up, give your 10-digit account number,
and the password is the last four digits of your social security number, and off you go.
At the moment, the transactions available are purely informational,
like you can get your balance, you can get the last five checks that cleared, that kind of thing.
But they say they plan to allow operational transactions,
like paying your bills or transferring money, real soon.
The problems of this kind of system have been well covered here in the past and on this radio program.
What I need help with is also a known problem, but in this case it appears to be particularly severe.
In this system, if you time out too often or enter incorrect information twice,
you are transferred to a human being who is supposed to help you figure out the system.
In my case, I encountered this human being twice.
The first time, I had misunderstood which subset of the account digits they wanted,
and when I got to the human, he could apparently see the digits I had typed,
and he told me the correct digits to use for my account.
How helpful, I thought.
I then called back and tried the new digit set, and it still failed twice.
I talked to another human being who revealed that not only did he have on his screen my account number,
but also he had the four-digit password.
My four-digit password.
And he had the one that I had typed in correctly.
It turns out there was a data transcription error in my account,
and they had a wrong social security number for me, thus the password was different than I expected.
The helpful gentleman, with no confirmation of who I was, provided the correct four digits to me,
and I wasn't even trying to do social engineering.
Now, what I'd like to see done here is some sort of form of protest,
some sort of form of expression of alarm.
But how do we do this?
To whom within the bank or government or Securities and Exchange Commission and Better Business Bureau,
who do you send that letter to?
How do I explain to them that, A, they have to guard this information at least as closely as bank card pins,
B, they should provide some way for me to change my password,
and C, they have to train their people a whole lot better.
At the moment, I'm tempted to rant and rave at them, but I know a calm, well-thought-out, detailed response
is more likely to get the results I want.
Should I start off with a phone call?
Has anyone on this list dealt successfully with similar problems?
Well, that's the question asked on the risks list, the risks digest.
And I know people out there listening have had similar escapades.
I've had similar problems like this, where you call up the phone company,
and you find them, even though you're authorized to get this information, they're telling you way too much.
And you're thinking, yeah, this is your address, right?
This is your phone number. This is where you work.
That special password that you have, that's what this is, correct?
And, you know, you're not going to say no because it's correct information,
but you have to wonder, you know?
Someone else comes in there and says, you know, I need information on this particular account,
and they just happen to believe that the right person is calling in.
Well, we know from experience how much information they can get,
you get a lot of information on somebody, you have a lot of power over their lives,
you can control things, you can change things, you can turn their phone off,
you can change their address, change their name, who knows?
Anything's possible.
So, yeah, we have to have protection.
And there's those of you out there, those of us out there, people out there,
that understand this, but there's a lot of people that don't understand this,
a lot of people that think that we should just keep quiet about the whole thing,
we shouldn't be talking about it, we shouldn't be revealing security holes.
And showing people how easy it is to get information, how easy it is to manipulate information.
Well, that's not the way it works.
That's not the way it works for any kind of whistleblowing organization.
And hackers as well as people at WBAI share that.
Because when we see something, we talk about it, and we hope our listeners are the same way.
We hope that those of you out there that listen to these programs,
especially the programs on Wednesday night,
we try to bring you things that nobody else thinks to bring you.
Things that nobody else imagines are important.
Things that affect you, things that affect other people.
And lots of times it takes quite a bit of digging to figure all this out.
And sometimes you have to try and crack the system yourself to see where the weaknesses are.
And when we do that, we let you know.
But now we need something back from our listeners.
We need to hear from people out there that have been affected by all this.
And our number is 212-279-3400.
Our total, I don't think this is our show total, it's $45,095.
Now someone tell me that that's not our show total, because if it is, I can just stop right here.
All right, I don't think it is.
I think our show total is still either zero or not much more than that.
So perhaps the people in Tally Room can help us out there and keep us updated.
But we need to bring in a lot of new listeners today.
A lot of new members to Radio Station WBAI.
And you can help us out. You can help us out tremendously.
And believe me, this is the case, because we survive only because of our listeners.
I mean, you can look at radio and say, well, what radio station wouldn't survive because of its listeners?
It's weird, you know, you tune down the commercial dial and you'll hear so much repetition.
You wonder, who's listening to this garbage? Who is it that supports this?
I mean, why is this crap on the air?
Well, they don't really have to deal with listeners on a one-to-one basis.
They deal with sponsors.
Thankfully, the listeners hear the sponsors and buy the products, and that's how it all works.
But if you listen to WBAI, you've noticed that we don't have commercials.
We don't have any commercials, and the way we get our support is through our listeners.
212-279-3400, a pledge of $75 gets you a year of 2600, the Hacker Quarterly, which is an interesting publication, to say the least.
It gets quite a few people angry.
It gets a lot of notoriety for things that are uncovered in its pages.
And it's 10 years old, 10 years old this year.
That's pretty amazing in and of itself.
Any pledge, though, will be able to help out the radio station.
I mean, the minimum pledge is not $75.
The minimum pledge is really whatever it is you can afford.
212-279-3400, anybody that calls in and pledges will get the WBAI folio for a year,
and that's the only way to really find out what's on the radio station, 24 hours a day.
212-279-3400, now, I think our lights are burned out because not one of them is lit.
And I'd sure like to see some action out there, because I know there's lots of people that call in and share information
and get information from this program.
If you want us to continue to be able to do this, we have to have support.
It's a sad fact, but it's a true fact.
And we've had support in the past from our listeners, from all kinds of people throughout New York, New Jersey, Connecticut,
and anywhere else our signal happens to trespass into.
212-279-3400, we want to fill up the phone lines, get people calling in and helping us to remain strong.
A lot of what we bring you simply would not be heard anyplace else.
Nothing is more true than that.
This is the only place where you can hear information about computer systems and telephone systems
in the manner in which we bring it to you.
For instance, I'll give you an example.
Last week, we did something with some of our listeners.
We had a call in, and let me see if I can get a line here.
We also have all kinds of technical challenges here.
Right now we're trying to get a line.
It's not the easiest thing in the world.
212-279-3400, please fill up those phone lines while we're trying to figure out the phone here.
And do we have a line?
Okay, we have a line.
Last week, one of our listeners said, why don't you try calling this particular number?
Let's try it again.
I think this will work this time.
Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it?
Now, that is something that you get now if you dial 311 from many, many places.
311.
Now, I've tried this in the 516 area code.
I've tried it in the 212 area code, and you get similar things.
Some of the tones are a little bit longer.
Now, what that is, that's called TDD data, or I guess just TDD.
That's kind of an ancient way of transcribing information.
A lot of deaf people use those particular devices.
To give you an idea of the speed of this thing, our current barred rates are something like 2400, 9600, 14.4, and beyond.
This is a barred rate of 45.
Not 4500, 45.
Four, five.
Two digits.
That's it.
That's how slow it is.
Now, why, why in heaven's name is this suddenly popping up everywhere you go when you dial 311?
Why is that?
Well, we have an answer.
We have an answer.
Hey, the phone lines are full.
Are they really full, or is this just somebody with a 10-line phone pulling a gag on us?
Okay.
Everybody is calling in.
212-279-3400.
Call now, and you'll get a busy signal.
That's a good sign.
But it doesn't mean that you shouldn't call.
It means that you should try again.
In fact, you can try.
Now, don't do that.
You see, we'll also tell you about the ripoffs.
I was going to say dial star-66 and camp on, and then your phone will ring back with our number,
and you'll pick it up, and our phone will ring.
It's that little service that the phone company provides.
But they charge you 75 cents for it whether or not it works, and it's just a little too much for my taste.
So don't do that, but call us anyway.
212-279-3400.
You see, when is the last time you can think of a radio show that, or a TV show,
that says don't use this service that the phone company is introducing because it's a ripoff?
There's a reason why.
Do you think it's because we're smarter than they are?
Well, maybe we are, but that's not the reason.
The reason is they will feel the heat if they say that.
If anybody at, say, Channel 6, and I said 6 because we don't have a Channel 6,
and I don't want to offend anybody at Channel 2,
if they were to say that the phone company is ripping you off, don't use this, this is very bad,
and they continually told you about all the ripoffs the phone company issued on a regular basis,
well, it's possible that 9X might not advertise as much on that particular radio station.
We don't have to worry about that because it'll be a cold day in hell
when 9X advertises at all on this radio station.
We will not accept advertising, whether or not they want to.
We will not accept underwriting.
I mean, if they sent us a $1 million check tomorrow, we probably wouldn't honor that either,
although I don't know for sure, but I doubt we would.
The thing is, we don't have to worry about upsetting large corporations,
and that's why we're so good at it,
because the only thing we have to worry about is their wrath
and the various underhanded things that they'll do to us.
But we don't have to worry about the radio station being affected in any way
because you're there.
Our listeners are there.
You see what the power is, the power of the individual here?
It's not a fantasy.
It's not something we're making up
because if you're hearing my voice, it's reality.
We exist, we're here, and we're here because of you.
It's cause and effect.
212-279-3400.
Now, I was driving around today at 6 in the morning,
right after the gothic radio show went off the air,
and I heard the marathon begin, 6 in the morning,
and the marathon had zilch, zero, no money at all.
We were starting from scratch,
but now we're over $45,000 in that amount of time.
How do you think that happened?
Do you think Exxon or 9X or Mobile Oil
or any of those other huge companies came in and dropped cash on the table?
No.
It came from people like you calling in 212-279-3400,
pledging whatever it is they could afford,
using their credit cards, Visa and MasterCard,
and helping us out in whatever way they can.
And look where we've gotten so far.
So that's how it all translates.
You call up, you become part of a much bigger thing.
212-279-3400.
We have open lines now,
so if you were frustrated by a busy signal before,
you won't be frustrated now.
And no, we have not forgotten about the 311 mystery
because we're going to tell...
I'll tell you what.
If I see a couple more calls come in...
I know, I hate to do this.
I know you hate hearing it,
but I just want to see a couple more calls come in,
and then once those calls come in,
we'll explain what the 311 thing is,
or at least what we think the 311 thing is so far.
Because we've been working on this.
People tell us various things,
and we investigate them,
and we play around with them.
And I guess maybe we're not even supposed to do that.
Maybe we're supposed to not call something
without knowing what it is.
Maybe we could get in trouble for this.
Maybe we could be sent to prison for a year
for unauthorized access to something.
Who knows?
It's a chance we take.
When you want to find something out,
you do it anyway.
You just don't hurt things,
you don't destroy things,
you don't litter.
You know, it's like walking through a forest.
I've always had trouble with people saying,
you can't walk here.
It's not yours.
Well, of course it's not mine.
How could land be anybody's?
How can a beach be anybody's?
How can water belong to people?
How can the sky belong to somebody?
It doesn't.
Clearly it doesn't.
And while we might be able to
make little pieces of paper and documents
claim that we own them for a short amount of time,
namely our lifetimes,
in the end,
it belongs to the planet.
And that's how it is.
You just have to show respect
as you pass through.
So, thank you.
We're offering the magazine.
2600.
Some confusion as to what we're offering.
We're offering 2600 magazine
for people that call in.
212-279-3400.
In the same way,
when you wander around
on phone systems and computer systems,
you have to sort of get what you can out of it.
You have to learn and share information
and not close things off to people.
If you close things off to people,
you're not really going to accomplish anything.
You're just going to make the resolve
a lot stronger of people that want to get in,
people that want to figure out how things work
and what you're really doing.
That doesn't mean that every single action
is accountable.
But when you're running systems
that have to do with the public interest
as opposed to the federal interest,
well, people do have a right to know
and people are not told.
There's a lot that people are not told.
Okay.
Looks like we got our phone call.
So, I'm going to live up to my part
of the promise here.
It's another thing that we do here at BAI.
We honor our promises.
Make sure you honor your pledges, please.
All right.
311 is a very weird type of thing.
It's showing up everywhere.
It's not a fluke.
It's something that's planned.
What we did was we found a TDD machine
and we actually were able to do this on 3-Way.
We got three people on the phone
and one of them happened to be a TDD machine.
Now, that's the difference between TDDs and modems.
You can talk while they're online
and it doesn't really mess up the data
that's being received.
The data that was received in various forms,
because depending on whether we called 212 or 516,
we got slightly different information,
but the data, for the most part,
said this is the New York State Police.
That's right.
The New York State Police on 311.
If you dial 311,
for some reason that we don't know yet,
you're getting the equivalent of a teletype machine
at the New York State Police.
Now, why would somebody want to call
the New York State Police in the first place
when it's county police and borough police
and things like that that handle any local emergency,
not the state police?
I'm not quite sure why that is,
but I know now that with this new information,
our listeners are going to go out
and find out some more things
and, of course, we're going to do
some more investigation ourselves
and when we learn more,
we'll spread it around here.
Okay.
Now, something else that's going on,
which I think is really kind of interesting,
has to do with something nostalgic,
something new,
something that's new and old at the same time.
You know what I'm talking about, right?
Rotary pay phones.
See the piece in the New York Times yesterday
on the front page?
Rotary pay phones return, this time,
to foil drug deals.
This is about the dumbest thing
I've ever seen in my life.
The phone company
and a bunch of civic association people
have gotten together
and pulled their brains,
which I don't know what that amounts to,
and come to the conclusion
that if they simply replace touch-tone phones
with rotary phones,
that's going to somehow make drug dealers go away.
Let's go over the story a little bit
and then we'll...
Well, we don't have enough time
to go over all the reasons
why that doesn't work,
but we'll take a brief look at this.
Also, we're going to take a few phone calls
at our special line,
212-279-3407.
That's right after we talk about this,
but that's not meant to be a deterrent
to calling our pledge line
at 212-279-3400.
Remember, everybody that calls in
with the $75 pledge
will get a full year of 2600 magazine,
the Hacker Quarterly,
and a whole lot of respect
from all of us.
Okay, at 8th Avenue and West 45th Street,
that's right near here too,
there are three pay telephones.
In fact, I think I've seen these phones.
A man looks at the first,
shakes his head,
and goes to the second.
He rolls his eyes and moves to the third.
Finally, he shrugs,
shoves in a quarter and dials,
methodically putting his index finger
in the little hole over each number
and turning the dial seven times.
You notice how the New York Times
is getting more literary
with the way they write articles.
You get that little drama in there.
Well, I know it's also a good instruction
for those of you that don't know
how to use those strange-looking phones.
You put your index finger in that little hole
and turn the dial seven times.
I've seen people say
they don't know how to use those things.
Okay, the man said,
I won't say his name,
even though it's on the front page of the paper,
he said, I don't like it.
It takes too long to dial
and I've got places to go.
Three decades after buttons began
to replace rotary dials on American phones,
time has reversed itself
at about 250 outdoor pay phones
in New York City.
Responding to appeals from community groups
trying to stop drug dealers
from using public phones to do business,
9X, which of course was formerly
New York Telephone,
actually, it's not really
formerly New York Telephone,
it's simply swallowed up New York Telephone,
they have brought back old-fashioned dialing.
Astonishment seems the most prevalent response.
It wakes you up a little.
Said a cab driver
who pulled over to the 8th Avenue phone
to call his sister.
It's an eye-opener.
It's the boldest tactic in a campaign
that began with improved lighting,
moving phones away from problem areas,
then disabling phones
so they cannot receive incoming calls.
About a quarter of 9X's 8,400 street phones
do not take incoming calls.
And now the company is taking rotary pay phones,
which, by the way,
are no longer made in the United States,
and taking these rotary pay phones out of storage.
Here's what a 9X spokesperson said.
I'll give his name, Stephen Marcus.
He says this,
the rotary dial is a step backward technologically,
but it prevents a drug dealer
from paging a customer or runner.
He said the change was made as an absolute last resort,
since the phones cannot take advantage
of many new services like voicemail
that rely on push-button phones.
Phone company officials acknowledge
that the rotary phone tactic is not foolproof.
Callers, this is the best part,
callers can use a device called a tone dialer,
which is sold for about $15 at electronic stores,
and you can use those to send tone signals
over a phone with a rotary dial.
But they say the devices do not appear to have caught on.
Yeah.
Phone companies in other areas
have also brought back rotary pay phones
on drug-infested corners,
though not on a widespread basis.
We really do it as one of the last resorts
as a response to community concerns,
said Beverly Levy,
spokeswoman for Southern New England Telephone,
which serves most of Connecticut.
Well, as I said,
this is about the silliest thing I think I've ever seen.
First of all, what 9x has now done
is they've given us a very easy way
to find out where drugs are sold.
You simply drive around,
and if you see a rotary phone,
you say, hey, this is the neighborhood,
this is where drug dealers hang out.
But apart from that,
it's not going to solve a single thing.
The only thing it's going to do
is make things more inconvenient for other people,
the same thing that blocking incoming phone calls will do.
I mean, how many times have you been at a pay phone
and you needed somebody to call you back,
or you didn't want to keep throwing money in,
and you wanted somebody to call you back?
Well, that's good for drug dealers,
so therefore it's not good for the rest of us.
Wrong.
That's not the case at all.
In that particular case,
the phone company definitely benefits
from turning off incoming phone calls to a pay phone.
But they can point to the war on drugs and say,
that's the reason why we did it.
In this particular case,
the phone company doesn't really benefit at all,
but they make it seem
as if they're doing something good for the community.
Well, I don't think this is very good for the community at all,
because people have come to depend on touch tones
for various things,
using their voicemail systems, beeping people.
Yeah, people do beep people without drugs involved,
although it is pretty rare, I guess.
Using answering machines and long-distance companies,
what have you.
People need touch tones.
People use them all the time.
This doesn't solve anything.
Ever hear of a cellular telephone?
A lot of drug dealers have cellular telephones.
They don't care.
It's not going to change anything.
It's not going to change a thing.
This is the silliest thing I have ever seen.
And again, what we need is people to say this,
because you have these people on the community boards
that really, although good intention,
they don't grasp what's going on here.
You're not going to get rid of drug dealers
by getting rid of pay phones,
getting rid of dials,
getting rid of incoming call capabilities.
You're not going to do it.
It's a much more complex problem than that.
So, I'd like to know what people think about this.
It's a funny story in a way,
but also indicative of how people feel
when it comes to technology.
They just don't get it a lot of times.
212-279-3407 if you want to be on the air,
and 212-279-3400 to make a pledge.
What is our total?
Is that really our total?
That's very good.
That's very good.
We're over $1,000.
We're over $1,000.
I'm very impressed.
I think that's better than we've done
in quite some time on this radio program.
Quite some time.
If you want to add to that, please do.
Please do.
We're doing very well,
but that doesn't mean that we can't do better,
because the better we do,
the more it's going to show.
Maybe we'll get a phone system someday
where both the person on the radio
and the person calling in
can talk at the same time
without one person not being able to hear
anything the other person is saying.
It's little things like that.
They're annoying,
but they're the kind of things that we get fixed
with the money that is sent to us by our listeners.
212-279-3400 is a very important number to call.
Again, this is the only time this radio program
will be on during the entire marathon,
so please call now, 212-279-3400.
We take Visa.
We take MasterCard.
We'll work with you.
We'll do everything we can
to make this as pleasant an experience
as possible for everybody in concern.
All right.
Again, our on-the-air phone number is
212-279-3407.
Those lines are pretty much all clogged up already,
so please call in the pledge line
and show your support.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yeah, hi.
You know that feature where the 9X cuts you off
after about 40 rings?
Yeah, it's a wonderful feature, isn't it?
Yeah.
I'm wondering,
is it a level playing field
as every region of the city and the suburbs have it,
or some people that are calling in to BAI
still have the old way of doing it
where they have an advantage?
Okay, well, nobody has the old way anymore,
and the reason for that is because
our central office,
the 279 exchange,
the phone company in that particular exchange
has set a value on their computer saying
if number of rings equals
however many number of rings it is,
what is it, 40, 50, 60,
then disconnect.
It's a function of the receiving phone.
Right.
In the end, it's a function of the receiving line,
but there are other cases where
if you're using, say, a long-distance company,
for instance, people from New Jersey
might be using AT&T.
Well, AT&T might put a one-minute limit
on their outgoing calls
if nobody picks up.
They'll send a recording saying,
hey, nobody's picking up.
Try again later.
So it depends where you're calling from.
Some places use different carriers,
and those carriers have less of a limit,
but in the end,
you'll fall victim to the 279 exchange here,
which has a limit of however many rings that is.
Now, again, that's something that can be changed.
I've seen it changed.
It's something that is set in the system,
and if we had enough clout with the phone company,
if they didn't dislike us so much...
...on a phone-by-phone basis?
I don't know if they can do it on a phone-by-phone basis.
They can certainly do it on an exchange basis,
for instance, the entire 279 exchange.
For the last couple of dozen years,
this hasn't been a problem.
I haven't seen the phone company suffering
as a result of people letting the phone ring
for a long period of time.
I mean, how many people actually do that?
People calling this radio station right now
are probably the only people
that are calling something in this exchange
and letting it ring for more than 10 times.
So not that many people are affected by it.
The phone company really doesn't lose much money
by doing this, if any at all.
They should program it so that it's only done on peak periods.
That's an idea.
That's an idea, although I really don't think
it would even affect them much in peak periods.
So, again, if it's something that people want,
if we know how to apply the pressure,
then things will change.
It's as simple as that.
But you know the people on the left are disorganized?
People on the left are disorganized,
but it's better than being on the other side
where people are a little too organized sometimes.
But that's one of the definitions of being a leftist.
I guess. I guess it is, in one way.
But you can still use it.
And technology is the best way to use
the power that you have as an individual
because you can reach a lot more people that way.
You can inspire people,
and maybe something will get done.
Can I ask you one more question?
Sure.
If I wanted to leave a message of a commercial nature,
is it true that the original users of Internet
are sort of boycotting commercial messages,
and what they're doing is they're bombarding the phone number
and they're calling you up with crank calls?
Well, I mean, there might be some people that do that.
That's not an official policy of anybody.
But the original purpose of the Internet
was not for commercial use.
However, that is changing, obviously,
as commercial entities get involved in it.
But hopefully, hopefully the day will not come
where you're using your Internet mailbox
and you have to go through all the junk mail
that shows up every day that is unasked for.
It's like your regular mailbox.
But for a person like myself
who's starting a business on a shoestring,
what would it cost me to go on the Internet
and put a message there?
What do you mean by put a message there?
A message of a commercial nature
that would interest or excite anybody that logs on.
Well, as far as people calling you,
they're calling you, so you can say whatever you want.
But if you're going to go around
sending messages to people unsolicited,
that's definitely going to react,
and you'll get a bad reaction to that.
Is there a global mailbox
where you can just leave a message
for anybody and everybody that wants to look at it?
If you get people to contact you, yes,
then they can see information
by either fingering your account,
or you can have an auto-reply.
People that want information send you mail,
and it automatically gets sent out to them.
But they initially take the first step.
It's considered really bad to deluge people
with commercial material if they didn't ask for it.
Right. It seems like it is limited.
There's no real way that they can find...
Generally speaking, it's like a jungle out there.
I mean, it's a maze trying to figure out...
It's not really user-friendly, I think.
All these BBSs seem to be that way.
It's just like they...
And if you don't want to spend the time with the phone chargers,
you really don't want to practice with them
for like four hours to figure out
what's good on it and what's bad.
Sometimes you have to sort of
wander around for long periods of time.
The Internet is different
than everything we've had before this.
People don't think in the same way.
Money is not as much of a concern.
And there's more equality there
than any place else in society
because you really don't know who you're talking to.
And that's a good thing.
People prove themselves on their words.
Thanks for calling.
Let's take another phone call.
212-279-3407.
But our pledge lines are wide open
at 212-279-3400.
And in a little while,
in about maybe 10 minutes,
10 to 15 minutes or so,
we will tell you the saga of fiber-optic
as he went to prison
and is now there, locked up.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Hello?
Yes, go ahead.
Yes, I had a question.
And that question was?
About the Kraft Access computer that I've heard about.
Yes.
Can you give me any information on that,
what that was used for, and if it is still in use?
Yes, the Kraft Access terminals are used by phone companies.
They're little portable computers,
is what they are.
And they're used to access computers
that the phone company has.
Lots of times they have
all kinds of information stored in them.
And you can use it basically
to get information on a customer,
to change reports,
to finish repair reports,
things like that.
Every lineman has one.
Every lineman carries one with him.
OK.
Well, Electronics Corporation,
they have an AT&T handset,
new in the box, for $60,
with the Kraft Access controls on it.
Uh-huh.
Well, now, I'm not sure,
I haven't seen the AT&T version,
so I can't really tell you
what that is exactly,
but it's used by local phone companies.
OK.
It has an LCD screen and a joystick on it.
Right.
OK. All right. Thanks for the info.
OK.
Well, that's it for the phone company,
and you might find some Kraft Access terminals there,
but I doubt it.
I think those are things that they don't really want
spread around, but as we learn more,
we'll certainly pass it on.
212-279-3400
is our pledge line.
Please, let's get a couple of calls
coming in on that line as well.
We're going to take a couple more phone calls.
And that's not going to be one of them.
Good evening.
Good evening, everyone.
Yeah. Hi.
How are you doing?
All right. Here's the story.
What does 9X stand for?
OK. That's a good question.
I think it is.
You know, I only ask good questions.
That's true.
I mean, I asked the telephone operator,
what does 9X stand for?
You never stick around to hear the answer.
He doesn't even know.
All right. Well, I'm going to tell you
what no listener knows first, and if no listener knows,
then I'm going to tell you.
Really, I will. Good evening.
Yeah, I'd say it's New York, New England.
OK, but what does the X stand for?
Then I have really no idea.
Then your answer is completely worthless.
You have to have the whole thing.
Maybe an exchange carrier or something like that?
That's a very good guess.
But it's wrong?
That's totally wrong, but it's a very good guess.
OK, thanks.
All right. Let's try a couple more people,
and see who knows this. Good evening.
Hello?
Yes. You have a horrible hum on the line.
Can you hear me?
Oh, we're on delay.
Yes. We're also on a lousy hum here.
Something's wrong with the phones.
Yeah, something is very wrong with the phones.
All right. Well, unfortunately,
we won't be able to get anywhere with that person.
That's sad. He probably had the answer.
Good evening.
Hi. I'm glad I got through.
I found something strange about the 3407 exchange.
Usually when I call 3400 and the line is busy,
I get a busy signal.
But with 07, it rings twice,
and then a message, you know,
you get that da-da-da,
and it says, your call has not gone through.
Please try again.
And then this man's voice comes on.
It says, why 3285?
Why indeed?
I'm calling from 914 exchange,
but I found that really strange
when I was trying to get through here.
Did that happen more than once?
You're saying you called us,
and you got two rings,
and then a recording saying what?
You know, you get that da-da-da,
that signal, and a woman's voice says,
your call did not go through.
Please try your call again.
And then a man's voice comes on.
It says, why 3285?
Right. What that is is simply a label
for the recording, where the recording is coming from.
But I'm more concerned with why you're getting
that recording in the first place.
You shouldn't be.
A lot of people are calling.
I just get a busy signal, you know?
Okay, well, assuming that these lines remain busy,
we'll try it ourselves,
and see if the same thing happens to us.
Well, that's basically all I want to say.
Okay. Well, thanks for calling.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
How could that have been what he wanted to say?
He called us to tell us
that when he calls us,
he doesn't get through.
Now, that's not right.
That's not right, because he called us initially
to find out something else,
and that's when he found out he couldn't get through.
It's a self-referential call there.
Well, I guess we'll never know what that was all about.
All right.
Let's try this.
This is going to be kind of tricky, though.
We've got to somehow
call this line
and see if
we get the same problem.
All right.
All right.
I'm going to try
to call this line on another
phone number here,
and we will see in a second
if we get the same problem.
See, I can't get a single
line here.
All right, let's try it over here.
My apologies for this
thing sometimes
get a little...
Okay, here we go.
Let's get a dial tone.
Got a busy signal
right away.
Now, I don't doubt that's what happened,
but it's not happening consistently.
If anyone else has that problem, let us know.
Okay, very quickly now.
We'll take one or two more calls,
see if anybody knows what 9x stands for,
and then we'll go back
to the show and back to
taking some more pledges.
Hopefully that number will go up.
Yeah, it's going up a little bit.
212-279-3400.
$75 pledge will get you
a subscription to 2600 Magazine,
the elite publication of
computer hackers everywhere.
I can't believe I just said that.
Good evening. You're on.
Hello, are you there?
Hello, are you there?
Yes. Oh, are we on time delay?
Yes, we are.
I tried about 40 times
to get through, and it rings once and then disconnects.
I called the operator. She said, oh, that line's
out of order. But that's not why I called,
so I don't want to waste time on that.
I think it's a conspiracy against you.
Well, it's one of many, actually.
I don't know. Whatever.
Anyway, maybe it was when you switched over.
Something is getting caught up,
or they just don't want to waste the electricity.
I think that's why they cut it down to 10 rings.
Yeah, they're conserving power.
Yeah, okay. Well, that's good. I'm for conserving things.
I just wanted to mention
two things. One, I've heard presidents
and politicians talk
about how they're going to stop drugs.
I've never heard them mention
how they're going to help people
by... When I get through listening,
I ask myself, why do people take drugs?
And I think the answer is
because they don't feel good.
Why don't they feel good? Because they're not
eating right. They're not healthy.
And I noticed something in my life,
and I'm not saying
alcohol is good, bad, whatever.
Maybe in moderation, it's okay. I don't know.
But I know one thing.
Sometime in 1985, when I started
taking food supplements
on a regular basis,
I lost my desire to drink.
Not that I drank
to excess, or that it
interfered with my life.
But I found that I just
didn't... I felt so good,
I didn't want to change that.
And if
we would start to treat people
and feed them
and educate them instead of...
There are people out there that eat all day long
and they're eating garbage.
They're eating fast food and they're eating
plastic food and synthetic food
and irradiated food.
If only we would educate them
and start with the children.
I keep saying, I'm going to start keeping records
January 1st, but
January 15th comes.
Start today. Today is the beginning
of the rest of our lives.
I wonder, a lot of times people feel really good
when they give homeless people
remains of a Big Mac or something like that.
I just wonder, how many people
out there have eaten fast food
all day long?
Day after day.
It's not good for you.
But why doesn't anyone
nourish? Why doesn't anyone say
let's nourish them, let's feed them.
They're out there
and they need something.
It's like people who
eat too much sugar. There have been articles
and I'm sure Gary Nowell
and people have talked about the effects of
sugar on children and hyperactivity.
Hey, what about adults?
What about adults and sugar and hyperactivity
and criminal behavior because
people are not thinking right?
I think you know the answer to that,
why people don't say this
because a lot of people really don't care.
That's the sad fact.
I saw a report, I think it was
a few nights ago on channel 2
late news about
the new Giuliani policy
or actually no, it was the new transit authority
policy which I'm not sure if it had its roots in the
Giuliani administration.
Basically, the people on the train
this is how they pretty much phrased it.
They said the people on the train that harass
you and
intimidate you and
make your commute and your subway ride
miserable by asking for money
and chasing you
and threatening you and all that kind of thing.
They're going to be stopped.
They're going to arrest
the beggars on the train
and this whole big report was basically
meant to get all the
yuppie commuters
feeling great about how nice
the subway will be to ride in.
Not one word was said about why these people
compelled to beg
in the first place. Is anything being done for them?
About doing something for them.
The tone of the report was just so callous
I could not believe it.
I just couldn't believe that they wouldn't think
well maybe there should be something
some explanation
some service, something offered
to help these people.
But nothing. Not a word.
Well he's a bandage. All these treatments
all these police on the street
it's all a bandage. It's not getting to the root of the problem.
It's like the rotary phone thing.
It's not going to solve anything.
But why should we pay politicians
and government
Why is government growing and we're shrinking?
Why is government growing and they have
bonuses and all these
we're going to escape from the planet
billions of dollars for whatever
sure, science fiction is
fun to read about, but they're going to get up to
Mars and find what?
Why doesn't that money be
put into...
That's where I disagree because I do think
we should go to Mars, but I think there is money
there. I think there's plenty of money there.
And if we just take the money that we spend on destroying
ourselves, you know what? We're going to have that money
to help ourselves.
Hey, that's right, but why don't we address
the problems that we have on Earth
when you get up in the morning, do you just run right out of bed?
No, you get dressed, you wash, you shower
you eat, you do whatever
you take care of yourself before you go to Mars
before you go somewhere. You've got to take care
of Earth. And then
when we're ready to go to Mars
you know, isn't it funny how that probe
what was it? The Jupiter probe or the Mars probe
it disappeared.
And it's not the first one to do that either.
You know, what do you think?
You think they're up there and they're making it
disappear? I mean, come on.
There's definitely something out there. I think, you know
that's obviously the case.
Do you hear yourself
cutting in and out or is that just on my phone?
No, that's you. You see, I never get to hear that, but
I know everybody that calls in does hear that and that's one of the
things we want to try to fix.
Do you have voice activated? You're not speaking
to a phone then, right?
No, there's a microphone that feeds into the phone system, but
somewhere along the lines, I think a rat or something
has chewed through one of the connections and we have to
find out where that is.
You're cutting in and out. I've never heard that before
and I have called in before on the other line.
Really? Well, usually I try to say things that are
intelligent enough so that you only have to
hear every other word to really understand
what I'm saying. I just want to say one more thing
about something that I do.
I go to a particular store
that when I discovered this a few years ago
when the new food comes in
they throw out the old food.
I go at the time
when that happens, the night
before and I take
all the food and I feed people
with it and if people would make
contact with their supermarkets
and health food stores and whatever
they would find that there is waste
and they just don't have anything to do with it.
Even McDonald's, you know
if you're really hungry at the end of the night
go to McDonald's just before they're
closing and they'll probably give you
food, but there's so much
food, there's so much waste and I've noticed
another thing, which is not food, but
the bookstores at the
end of the month or when they're through
when the new shipment comes in, they rip
off the front page of books and
magazines and whatever's
on the shelf the day before and they
throw it out into the garbage. They do
it with shoes. What a
waste. Why must we waste?
Why must there be waste? That's where people like you
come in, people that care.
Well, but what can I, you know, I do what I can do
but my purpose
is not to just, you know, blast my horn
on the air. I'm hoping I'm reaching people
and I'm talking to people in the area.
The fact that you do what you can do, I mean
that sets you apart from... That's what I'm doing. I'm trying to reach out
to people. I've been doing this for 25 years.
I've been trying to talk, especially the Bob
Grant show. No, I don't talk on his show.
Well, I don't know if anybody
talks on his show, but that's beside the point.
No, he screens all his calls. You know, you ever listen
he doesn't even give out the number anymore.
Only certain people that belong to his club...
That's because they're playing recordings from the 50s.
I don't know.
Okay, let's give somebody else a chance. Thank you.
Nice talking to you.
That's the kind of people we need.
People that care, people that will do something.
And it may not seem like much,
you know, if you
go and help somebody out,
there's still a thousand more people that need help.
But it does.
Because maybe you'll reach
other people that can help other people.
And it's
exponential. Hopefully
more and more of this will go away.
With a combination
of pressure and a combination of charity
on our particular
you know,
individual
way of looking at things.
212-279-3400
is our pledge line.
All right, I'm going to tell you what 9X
stands for. You ready? And they don't say this very much
anymore.
Yes, the first caller was right.
New York, New England. What does the X stand for?
My friends, X
stands for the unknown.
I don't know how they got that
exactly, but X is the
algebraic equation, I suppose,
that means something that they
do not yet know what it is.
And that's why the X is also
kind of transparent. You know, if you look at it, it's not
a solid letter. It's because it hasn't been finished yet.
And knowing 9X would probably never be finished.
But that's
their kind of mystical, poetic
way of looking at
the future.
And maybe when they figure out what the future will be,
it will just be called 9, but I doubt it.
That's 9X. Yeah.
All right, we're going to take a little break.
And when we come back,
we're going to tell you all about fiber optic.
While we're away,
let's get some phone calls coming in.
212-279-3400,
please show your support
for this radio station. We're going
an extra hour tonight. This is the only time
we're going to be on during the marathon. We're not going to be on
next week. We're not going to be on the week after that.
So if you want to show support
for Off The Hook, this is the
time to do it. 212-279-3400.
We accept Visa and MasterCard.
And if you are particularly generous
and wish to pledge $75, we will
send you, the people of 2600
Magazine will thank you personally
and send you a full year of
the magazine. 212-279-3400.
Please let us
light up those lines. There is one
call on the line. I know we can fill it up. I know
we can get seven calls.
Seven is the number.
So we need six more people.
And you're one of those people.
212-279-3400.
Let's show
some people power out there.
It's very easy to just
say somebody else is going to take care of
this particular problem. Somebody else is going to
see that something
changes, see that something is done
that will
make a difference. But
in actuality, you're the person that makes that
difference. We all are.
Everybody does
something.
Where a single voice
can often reach
many, many people
and change their lives.
212-279-3400.
Please give us a call.
We'll be back in a few minutes.
Thanks.
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