♪ Yeah, we can get it if we all get it right ♪
Here is a box, a musical box, wound up and ready to play.
♪♪
Music.
A shortcut.
Ever since I was a kid, Alice, I liked music.
Especially popular music.
Heh.
When I was growing up, that's all I did. I used to eat, sleep and think music.
I wasn't like those other bums around the neighborhood, you know.
Hanging around the pool room or hanging out in the corner.
Not me. Every night and a week, I was up some ballroom listening to a dance band.
Music.
I find it's best not to judge a man by the size of his house or the clothes he wears.
Better to judge a chap by what he says and does or even by his choice in music and paintings.
I'm rather lost when it comes to the arts.
That's why I picked a subject that I know.
Popular songs. I know all about popular songs.
I know, Ralph, but you're not an expert.
What do you mean I'm not an expert?
Tune in for a very special All Mixed Up, beginning Monday morning, 9.30 a.m.
Here on listener-supported WBAI-FM, non-commercial radio in New York.
Music lovers, do you realize what you're hearing? I'll play it again!
It's 10 o'clock, and that means it's time for Off the Hook here in WBAI, New York.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Von Diddley Bond, for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood. Von Diddley Bond!
VON DIDDLEY BOND
OFF THE HOOK
...your telephones, the computers that are carefully keeping track of it all,
and the human beings that are running around thinking they're in control.
And we welcome your phone calls at 212-279-3400.
Some sad news, a couple of well-known computer hackers of New York are now in prison.
Acid Freak and Scorpion, who have on many occasions sat in on this very radio program,
were sent someplace, I'm not really sure exactly where,
for the horrible crime of conspiracy.
Conspiracy is something we all commit week after week on this particular radio program,
all the time on this particular radio station, and I'm sure we all do it at some point.
When it comes to computer hackers, when it comes to people that know a little too much,
or know things that other people don't understand and don't realize the full implications of,
it becomes all the more dangerous and actually seems like a crime.
In this particular case, two people that didn't even have computers,
that just talked to people on the phone, were convicted of a crime that nobody understood.
And to give you an example of this, at the sentencing, which took place a few weeks ago,
one of these hackers tried in vain to explain to the judge how a particular computer system worked.
The judge said to this particular hacker,
well, there's no way that this other person could have possibly posted all of this information
in this particular time period, it had to be you, it couldn't just have been this one person.
He was only on for five minutes or so, and he posted pages and pages of material.
How could he possibly have typed all that in?
And of course, the hacker tried to explain the concept of buffering,
the concept of sending massive amounts of data over the modem,
that you type offline and then send online.
And the judge just could not believe that was possible.
Now, these people are in control.
They're the ones that are sentencing people to jail and not understanding the technology.
They see something, they see a program being copied
and they believe it's the same thing as something being physically stolen.
They don't understand the concept of copying data,
of sending data without actually typing it yourself.
It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic, if people like our two friends
were not wasting time in a confined environment,
which they will be in for the next six months,
followed by six months of, I believe it's home detention
or some kind of addiction treatment or something bizarre like that.
So if anyone out there wants to write to these people,
please write through us here at the radio program.
Believe me, when you're in a place like that,
you need all the support you can get.
You need to hear from people, you need to know there's people out there that care.
So feel free to send mail to either AcidFreak or Scorpion or both of them.
Care of OffTheHook.
I guess Care of Emanuel Goldstein slash OffTheHook.
Probably making it into my mailbox a lot easier.
505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
Let's hope that this kind of thing stops.
It's been going on for quite some time.
This is the closest home it's hit, but hopefully it'll stop real soon.
Okay, we have some experiments we're going to do tonight,
and of course we'll be taking phone calls in just a little bit.
A lot of times people ask about telephone companies.
They ask, which phone company is the best?
And tonight, due to popular demand, we're going to try and find out.
We're going to ask each phone company a particular question
and hopefully get an answer.
I know that sounds simple, but it's not that simple.
When you deal with phone companies, it can be extremely time-consuming,
extremely frustrating, and also, to the benefit of all of us, extremely funny.
So we've picked three long-distance companies at random.
AT&T, MCI, and Sprint.
And we're going to call them all, well, one at a time anyway,
although it is fun when you call three of them at once.
And we're going to ask them their rates to a particular exchange
at a particular time.
Let's say we're calling California. That's fair, isn't it?
Yeah, California, that sounds like a good place.
Berkeley, our sister station in Berkeley, KPFA,
which is the 510 area code.
We want to call them at the stroke of 11 o'clock tonight.
How's that? 11 o'clock tonight.
And we plan to speak for six minutes.
Six-minute phone call.
All right. We need to know.
Of course, we don't have the phone number either,
so we also need to know how much a call to information will cost
through this phone company.
We're going to call AT&T, we're going to call Sprint,
we're going to call MCI, and we're going to find out just what the story is.
So let's get a dial tone online. Do we have a dial tone?
OK, we have a dial tone there.
It seems to be only coming in one ear.
Let's see if we can get a two-ear dial tone.
That's better. OK.
And we're going to call the number for AT&T.
And we're going to start the timer now.
Oh, wait a minute.
I hear something that doesn't really make much sense.
I hear a Mickey Mouse voice, and I hear a busy signal,
neither one of which I should be getting.
This is AT&T, after all.
OK, for some reason, we're getting...
We're getting fast playback on a tape machine.
I don't know why that is.
OK, let's... There we go. OK.
I think it was my fault. Let's try this one more time.
Actually, we're going to try it until we get through.
Technically, that should count against the busy signal.
OK, here we go.
The clock is ticking.
The clock is ticking.
Well, we have this pleasant music on hold.
It's OK.
The ticker is going.
AT&T is being judged based on this phone call.
Well, it's ten after ten on a Wednesday night.
I don't know how busy they could be.
In all fairness, that may be our static, not theirs.
I'm not sure.
Thank you for waiting.
All of our representatives are still assisting other AT&T customers.
The next available representative will be with you as soon as possible.
Thank you for your understanding.
If you continue to hold, you will not be disconnected.
I don't believe that when I see it.
OK, we're approaching two minutes...
...without even talking to someone yet.
...slightly behind schedule.
$.RP is the company's lowest-paid cell phone service.
Thank you for waiting.
All of our representatives are still assisting other AT&T customers.
The next available representative will be with you as soon as possible.
Thank you for your understanding.
If you continue to hold, you will not be disconnected.
you will continue to hold is basically what they should be saying I think well
this is all fine and good hearing nice alternative type music on the radio here
talking to one of my favorite long-distance companies should we set a
cutoff because we could be on all all day two minutes no four minutes four
minutes sounds a little better because okay well we have about about one more
minute thank you for waiting all of our representatives are still assisting
other AT&T customers the next available representative will be with you as soon
as possible thank you for your understanding if you continue to hold
you will not be disconnected how do they know I'm understanding that's what I'd
like to know and who are all these people that always get in first you know
how did they get there other customers are being helped where are these other
customers how many other customers are there that are being helped right now
okay we have about 45 seconds ah here we go just made it
yes hello I'm planning on making a telephone call to Berkeley California
from New York and I'd like to know what the rate would be okay I'm planning on
staying on for six minutes and I'm planning on making the call at 11 o'clock
tonight well I'm at two one two two seven nine three four hundred but I'm
just gonna I don't have any special kinds of plans or anything like that I
just wanted to know what the yeah the regular rate that's the word
uh-huh that's our night weekend rate and that would be 13 cents a minute for
you to call California from New York 13 cents for the first minute and so 13
cents for any minute okay and since I don't know the number yet that I'm going
to be calling in Berkeley I'll be needing to place a call to information
how does that work okay what you need to do is get the area code for Berkeley
I don't know it off hand I think it's I think it's nine one six and I'm not
quite sure and then you would dial up you would dial one at the area code and
then five five five one two one two and you would get an operator and that area
code and you would say I need they'd ask you the city and you say Berkeley and
then you tell them the name of the party you're trying to call okay to the phone
now how much does that cost 65 cents okay so in addition to the 13 cents per
minute I'll be paying 65 cents to get the number right and I okay I have the
area code it's five one zero yeah okay so that's really all the information I
need then okay thank you I'll be placing this call later okay okay bye-bye and
now we have we have that information on how to make a call there oh we have to
stop the timer and exactly that time okay that took about six minutes to find
out their rates there now I hope that the other companies are a little bit
more diligent as far as getting the information out and also see if they're
cheaper so let's uh let's make another phone call this one going out to sprint
it's the only way to find things out is to go out there and do it yourself
thank you for calling sprint your worldwide communications provider if you
are a business customer please press six now if you are a residential customer
for account balance information for phone card information or international
dialing instructions press two that was an unfinished if there's three for
billing and product information press four for other inquiries or to speak to
a customer service representative at any time press the star key or hold on the
line you hear this selection menu again press eight I'd like to hear it again
but we don't have a touchtone phone so we're gonna just wait one moment please
while we connect you to a representative thank you thank you very much now this
is what I call music thank you for calling Sprint customer service this is
Nancy Maddox how may I help you yes you're not a recording no I'm not oh
great okay I'd like to know I'm planning on placing a call later tonight to
Berkeley California from New York and I'd like to know what your rates are
I'd be happy to get that information if I could please have your area code and
phone number okay I am at two one two two seven nine three four hundred and I
plan to stay on for six minutes do you happen to have the area code in prefix
in Berkeley well I have the area code I don't yet know the number I know it's
510 area code okay thank you a six-minute call from 5 to 11 p.m. would
be 88 cents after 11 p.m. until 8 a.m. it would be 76 cents okay so okay how
much is that per minute the evening is 14 cents per minute and the night
weekend rate is 12 cents per minute 12 cents per minute Wow you know AT&T is
charging 13 oh yeah I figured I should let you know that now I don't get know
the number but I'm planning on calling information to find out you know how
much it would cost to call information through Sprint 65 cents okay so I add
that to the 76 cents and I'll be the total cost okay thank you you've been
very helpful okay bye-bye well you know that voice I don't know is
there something haunting about it she was so what's the word like I don't know
I thought she was inside my head okay that only took two and a half minutes
sprint so far is leading not only in time but in cost the call would cost 76
cents of course information cost almost as much as a six-minute call and well
let's see how much okay we saved two cents no we must have saved more than
that we saved I think she added wrong because if you multiply 12 times 6 no
you do get 7 now you get 72 and how she got 76 okay AT&T would cost 78 cents for
the call and 72 cents on sprint all right I'm sorry we have we have someone
here who seems to know about this arithmetic yes well I'm just thinking to
myself that people you lose your friends numbers you should just call other
friends long distance and relatives and ask them for the numbers no sense no no
it's total strangers you call a total stranger and say excuse me I'm from out
of town could you possibly just look in your phone book and tell me the number
of this person and most times I mean if I got a call like that it's better than
a sales call from AT&T asking me if I want to sign up for reach out America so
I gladly open the phone book and it doesn't cost me anything and you make a
friend maybe yeah but wouldn't you hate to have a call like that you know coming
up in your meal you're eating dinner and the phone rings well you know it's
inconvenient no matter what you do all right we have one more call one more
call to make and this one is to our good friends our real good friends over
at MCI that's a real good number thank you for calling MCI customer service my
name is Andy to better assist you may I please have your home area code and
telephone number okay my number I'm at right now is 2 1 2 2 7 9 3 400 and what
I'm calling about is I'm planning on making a telephone call at 11 p.m.
tonight from where I am now to Berkeley California and I'm going to be staying
on for six minutes I just like to know how much that will cost okay just a
moment thank you
static on this line I've noticed I don't know if she's still there but she sure
picked up fast no rings or anything ah I'm here okay he wasn't sure there
that's all right your number is 2 1 2 2 7 9 3 400 did I tell you that or did you
figure that out you told me okay good yeah okay do you have MCI for long
distance no I don't have any plans or anything like that I'll just be making a
casual call using MCI okay I don't show that as having an account in MCI ah no
I don't think we do I just like to know how much it would cost per minute okay
just a second you're gonna be dialing this directly from your home aren't you
I'll be dialing directly from this number yes okay the number is 2 1 2 2 7
9 so I need yeah and the number that you'll be calling to well it's area code
5 1 0 and I don't have any more information other than that you don't
have the first three digits well I mean I could I could just say 2 2 2 or
something I'm pretty sure it's something like that anyway I'll probably work in
the computer okay where's that to to California Berkeley California okay I got
it to SL Burton California yeah L L sand Burton
California semi it's close in the area oh yeah I'm sure it's gonna make this
what time you gonna make this call at the stroke of 11 at the stroke of 11
that call is going to cost for six minutes 75 cents and what is the cost
per minute on that hello yeah the cost per minute for that call per minute is
12 cents 12 cents per minute okay that's good and now I need to call
information to to get the number in the first place I like to know what you
charge for information excuse me I'd like to know what you charge for
information I'll be making a call to information to find out what the number
is I need to call 11 do you have MCI for a long-distance carrier well I'm going
to route the call through MCI okay for information MCI charges 64 cents 64
cents okay that's great because all the other carriers charge 65 and I know that
might not seem like much but I make a lot of calls information and it adds up
yeah it sure does so would you like to have MCI for a long-distance carrier
well you know I'd like to but I'm not authorized to to say one way or the
other so I'll have to you know I'll see how the call goes and then I can call
you back all right all right thanks very much my name is Andy thank you for
calling MCI Andy okay thank you very much you're welcome bye bye
wow that was that was the most successful yet now let's see if if we
okay I think we we pretty much tied there no actually we didn't tie they
were a bit behind sprint came out in first place for service with two and a
half minutes MCI three and a half minutes AT&T looks like just under six
minutes AT&T also being the most expensive the call to California would
cost $1.43 including the call to information 78 cents for the call 65
cents for information sprint would be $1.37 altogether 72 cents for the call
65 cents for the call information and MCI 75 cents for the call 64 cents for
information $1.39 so looks like sprint is the winner here they're cheaper
they're faster but MCI does undercut everybody else for that call to
information and everybody else lags way behind that's that's big savings there
I'd like to know if that if that's reflected on your phone bill two one two
two seven nine three four hundred we're gonna be taking some phone calls if you
have any questions concerning various various phone things or other
technology related things give us a call this is off the hook
Emanuel Goldstein with you on this Wednesday night let's see who's out
there good evening oh hi how you doing okay just a couple of comments one you
could probably get an AT&T response much faster if you you know call the zero
zero operator well yeah you know I was thinking of doing that but I can't do
the same thing for the other carriers we have carrier access codes blocked here
so it's quite possible that that they would have an unfair advantage if I did
that yeah so I'd still have to call the 800 numbers for the other carriers and
then that would take longer I think though that AT&T has it set up such that
their routing works much better for using an access code in zero zero
because the other carriers spent more worry more about the 800 number since
they have less of an established base uh-huh well it would be nice to just be
able to select a particular carrier and connect to the operator the operator
actually knows more about the call although these days the operator
doesn't really know all that much about calls either but I probably would have
gotten a faster answer going through the operator direct yes you're right about
that names of operators you notice that AT&T and Sprint gave you their own the
operators gave you the first names and MCI gave you the full name did they yeah
and it's sort of interesting if you ever want to make a complaint about an
operator yeah or anything like that you'll find I found that some AT&T
operators will slightly refuse to give you any information about them
whatsoever and after pestering them for a long time they will give you your
operator number if you really they are supposed to give you something in the
operator number it's kind of like a badge number I guess and they they do
that some operators answer with numbers I know New Jersey information operators
answer with numbers or at least they did and that's that's how you keep track of
them well actually the AT&T worse all the normal operators have operating
numbers and presumably they're required to give them to you but you speak to a
supervisor uh-huh supervisors have no identification whatsoever really I've
had supervisors identify themselves to me that I think they're supposed to well
you know I mean you you ask them who am I speaking with and he can't just say
the supervisor because that's silly you know you can't say well mr. supervisor
something like Kim from the Phoenix supervisor centers uh-huh
which was utterly useless I mean you know how many there were probably tons
of Kim's that's true there probably are tons of Kim's and this is actually when
I was trying to I was speaking to AT&T sometime last month I was asking if
there was any way I could convert between a find out what the from a pay
phone would be as compared to the rate from a residential uh-huh a residential
phone given that I knew one of the numbers yeah and they were utterly
unable to provide information it's amazing how many times you'll you'll just
run into dead ends as far as as far as getting answers straight answers on any
question and you know the rates it's an easy question that's their company
that's what they do so getting rates should not be that hard in fact I think
there should be some sort of a number where you call up and maybe a machine
tells you these things and you of course you need to have a touch tone
phone for that or maybe it could be voice activated as well and you give it
basically the same information I gave and maybe it'll work faster maybe it
won't I don't know yeah that's true it's very difficult these days to find out
just how much it costs I mean you see these rate sheets and they give you the
mileage they stay between one and five hundred miles this one and you know five
hundred and seven hundred ninety nine miles that and you know I don't know how
far away I am from anywhere so it's it's not going to be easy to figure it
out that it's making the customer do all the work right so any other questions
okay thanks for calling let's go to another call you're on off the hook go
ahead hello turn down your radio okay hold on for a minute yeah yeah it's
very confusing when people have the radio on same day okay the demon tower
right that telephone number out in Holland that's on 0 1 1 dash 31 dash 200
dash 600 that's 1480 no no you've made a mistake first of all of course the
dashes you don't need but it's not it's not City Code 200 it's City Code 20 okay
I'll read you the number ready yeah 0 1 1 to get overseas country code 31 City
Code 20 to 0 yes just 20 yeah okay right 6 6 0 0 1 4 8 0 you had everything right
except for the 2-0 part yeah not that I know of as far as I know they're the
only people making that thing and it's a kid actually oh yeah so you have to do
some soldering well people make things like that no no hectic of Holland never
had it available in this country though they'll send it to this country but they
don't produce it here it costs 350 Deutschmarks which I think translates
to about 250 US dollars yeah sure you can always do that but you should call
them first and work it out okay and one more thing about the black box and all
that stuff uh-huh the black box yeah you see there was this place called a
magazine well oh mm mm oh mm you don't mean 2600 do you okay yes what about it
you need to know where you can find it I think got that information there's
another place Lou panty loom panics yeah right right
moon panics catalog right okay thanks for calling take care all right we got
some information out there didn't we yeah let's see if we can help this next
person who's waiting for us right now on the phone good evening you're on hello
how you doing different long-distance companies I called today a company
called LCI because they've been recommended on the internet LCI LCI
apparently they're well known in the Midwest okay and I was asking different
things of course the guy is telling me how good everything is it already sent
me literature about their fiber optics network etc then my final question was
do you have full supervision on all calls and the rates were lowered in AT&T
during the day maybe not at night not at night during not intrastate at night but
during the day that lower rates anyhow he says well the call you only start
paying for the call once there's an answer the other end so a financing
machine answers you get you know you start paying I said yes but what type
well for intercept recordings it I was I had them as my default I think it's my
default carrier maybe I was using 950 at that time I forget but it appeared on my
bill and I remembered I'd got an intercept recording I call him up and
complained they said AT&T charges for the same thing so I made a call to the
same number on AT&T I got the intercept recording I waited for my AT&T bill and
I was not charged for that call so u.s. telecom at that time could not tell that
it was an intercept incidentally as part of my class-action lawsuit I got
approximately $1.75 well that's certainly makes you feel like those
liars they lied to me this is all you won't get charged for it this was US
tell well actually said they said AT&T also charges yeah well I mean what they
say is basically whatever they they feel like saying at the moment AT&T obviously
wouldn't charge for a network that they helped design I mean you know they they
have answer supervision but they you know they were the only company at the
beginning to have this now I think virtually all the companies except for
the really really small ones
and you know there are many many PBX's that exist today that operate on the
same principle I know if if your office works on say a ROAM system or something
like that it's quite likely that the bill you get within your organization
will be based on time and not not reflect what they're actually built for
by the phone company and you know for overseas calls like that results in
virtually every call every attempt being billed because it takes that long to
connect
profit no mailrooms as a history don't show profits yeah absolutely and in fact
some organizations universities places like that there is definitely a gap
between what they charge and what their build okay thanks for calling some
interesting interesting news there LCI never heard of them never heard of them
see if if 800 information is heard of them let's give that a try okay let's
see if 800 information has ever heard of LCI yes hi is this 800 information oh
great I need the number for the phone company called LCI L as in llama I guess
it's LCI communications although that's probably what the C stands for just
anything I'm going to do with phones or long-distance anything I don't know
where that locator anything there's somewhere in the Midwest somewhere out
there no listing okay thank you very much oh that cough there man I thought
he was laughing at first but no yeah he was definitely gagging there well you
can't do much business if your phone company and you're not listed that's
rule number one so LCI I don't know well keep our ears open but apparently they're
not looking for much business from here good evening you're on off the hook yes
how you doing there okay how are you how's how's George Orwell he's you know
he hasn't done much he's hasn't updated his book has he no he doesn't need to we
got big brother all over the place after 1984 we'll call it yeah listen you know
I'd like to suggest to you that we end the controversy about the 30 or 20 rings
into the station and then good I'm glad you brought that up okay so let me tell
you what happened okay I don't think was on your program but it was on one of the
programs and they had a person calling in from California you know one of the
guests okay and he had knowledge that the phone system that they have out
there they have the 20 ring or 30 ring a cutoff now he acknowledged it I then
you are acknowledging it because I called the our local telephone New York
telephone company and spoke to the authorities there I thought and they
said that they in no way if you want to ring a number that's not picking up you
know after all supposing a person's just coming home and you start ringing and
five minutes later they come home you could re-ring them but if you just wait
till they get home they would pick up well anyway the upshot was yeah what's
the guy calls in after it was acknowledged on the phone and I'll give
him the grace that maybe he had cut off his radio just to wait to be picked up
which doesn't make radio listening very sensible because you could miss you know
what I mean conversations as you wait you know with your radio off you know so
you don't get feedback okay we got to say what I mean well we just have to
limit the independent clauses of the sentence and this point perfectly
ethical he said that he wrote to the president of AT&T mind you he didn't
mention the man's name and he said that this man said that that's what they're
doing now it's cutting off phone calls when they don't get picked up after a
number of rings that's true I say to you if you want to settle a very simple
question please settle the question as to whether the WBA I freedom of speech
phone system is not impeded just as Bob Fass kept me off the air for a year or
so and then said he'd give me the Monroe Minute and then he reneged on that okay
well that doesn't tell me about freedom of speech and phone companies okay now
Bob Fass and the Monroe Minute has nothing to do with the phone all right
well anyway I'm identifying myself as a as a hurt individual in this man's and
woman's world okay all right so what's the story on the phone cut off it is in
your system is not well when you say in our system no it's got nothing to do
with the BAI phone system the BAI phone system is nothing more than a little
blinking light it is the local the local switch here and I can prove it to you I
can prove it to you if you call any number in the 279 exchange any number
count the number of rings call a number in the 279 exchange that is not part of
WBAI and hope that nobody answers and try something in the 99 area which is
the phone company you'll see it cuts off after the exact same number of rings
we're perilous to do it it's because it's because that we switched over to a
number 5 ESS in the area and that's that's endemic in the switch they have a
timeout we don't like it any more than our listeners do and there's there's
really nothing we can do about it except if we picked up all the calls and put
them on hold maybe maybe you know a year ago now why is it happening now because
in the spring of this year we switch from a 1a ESS to a 5 ESS we had no say
about it being I mean why did you switch we didn't switch no no what happens is
the phone company makes a switch they make things available and what they did
in this particular case was a switch to a 5 ESS they gave us such great options
as call return and caller ID and nice things like that which we don't use but
you do have caller ID we don't have it because we don't subscribe to it we
could get it yes but we're not gonna waste money and time like that because
it would be pointless but by doing that by offering those extra services they
upgraded the switch there used to be a different number that BAI had and it was
changed and now it's this number why don't you to do that I mean I find it a
very you know how shall I say it you're waiting and all of a sudden then you're
getting yeah I understand your frustration way and then you recall and
then spun away and I understand your frustration and well I'll tell you
something I I don't know I'm not proud of every phone call that comes into WBA
I neither am I I don't know what's going between let me just say it this way and
I'll end okay there are people like Bob Grant and Jay Diamond on ABC these
people will become contemptuous of you if they don't like your voice huh they
think you're of certain religion or a certain ethnic group or God only knows
or they you talk too quickly or not quickly enough or you're not talking
loud enough they will cut you and and flail you away or Tim I find that what
what I once thought would be the one most wonderful interaction that would
help society now has gotten to the point where you tell me that you went from one
EFS to 2f or 5f and therefore this new system I mean it's like big brothers
okay thank you he hung up first right down this date this has never happened
before he hung up first oh wow I made it through an entire Monroe
conversation that's incredible there's hope for me yet look folks we had
nothing to do with this this has got nothing to do with the radio station it
is the phone company it's it's it's it's just like complaining about the way the
ring sounds you know remember when the ring used to be this deep baritone ring
and they used to hear static in between the rings that was a crossbar that was a
mechanical switch at some point the phone company said we're gonna make it
electronic and we're gonna make them all sound the same and now today virtually
all of the rings around the world sound the same around the country anyway now
they've upgraded further from a from a simple electronic switch to a digital
switch and by doing so they have added the capability which is good for them
and bad for us of having a timeout function so yes AT&T has their own
timeout function if you call from a faraway place using AT&T it will cut you
off quicker than then our local switch here will cut you off after about two
minutes or so you'll get a recording saying your your call is not being
answered and it's obvious that's AT&T doing that because AT&T says that now
locally New York telephones number 5 ESS switch which is close by to us it times
out after about four or five minutes so there's absolutely nothing we can do
about it unfortunately maybe if enough people write and complain and say this
is not fair something will get done I mean in the course of that phone call
everybody that was calling in got disconnected you know that's that's the
way it works now it's not fair it's not fair at all it's totally contrary to the
way things used to be all right let's see if I can rescue somebody before they
get cut off good evening
the first caller I just wanted to say that first of all the timeout for you
guys is exactly five minutes or give or take a second okay it's five minutes for
local calls if you go through AT&T it might be longer those people in New
Jersey going through AT&T you don't have to use was it 10 NY and no 10 NJB
use New Jersey Bell and I think the timeout is longer yeah do you have that
handy that's Lumpanix Unlimited P.O. Box 1197 Port Townsend P.O.W.N.S.E.N.D.
Washington and the zip code is 98368 let's see they do not have a phone
number and they charge five bucks for catalogs and catalogs are free with your
order so if you know an item number you can order that and get a free catalog
okay you don't have the number for 2600 do you do but not well I guess since I
work for them I can give it up because he was asking about that to five one six
seven five one twenty six hundred and you can write to them at P.O. Box 752
Middle Island New York one one nine five three so hopefully that answers those
questions we're gonna move on to another call thanks for calling okay good
evening you're on off the hook hi Emmanuel great show as always I'm kind
of new to fooling around with some of this and I was just curious the guy
before referred to a demon dialer from Holland I just want to know if this was
different from the ordinary demon dialer that I've seen available in
Manhattan for $20 well probably since that's ten times more expensive do you
know what the one that you see in Manhattan does it looks like it's just a
multiple phone ringing thing stores a lot of numbers rings them fast etc but
it's actually brand-name demon dialer yeah no that's not the same thing what
this demon what this demon dialer does is is replicate virtually any phone
company tone from dial tones to rings to blue box tones silver box tones red box
tones you name it it does everything you can program it you can you can make
sweep tones you can you can make virtually any any kind of tone that you
feel is necessary you can have a guard tone other words play a tone while
you're punching in other tones it's it's really if you're a serious phone freak
if you're a serious explorer of the phone networks that's something and you
do a lot of traveling you go overseas a lot this box will come in quite handy of
course it looks like it's a bomb or something but if you're able to get
through various various international borders you'll find it's it's very
useful for exploring it can be used for fraudulent purposes. Is it legal to possess the United States and other customs restrictions on ordering and bringing it in?
Well you see it's a it's a kit so it's not assembled when it comes into the
country were it to be assembled there probably would be a problem of some sort
I myself had trouble coming into this country from Canada with an assembled
version but it was it's very easy to explain it away to tell the people that
it's just a big touch tone pad they they generally believe that because they
don't know the first thing about electronics. Makes sense. And that's from
Hactic? Yeah that's from Hactic Technologies. I've got one last question. Do you know any place in Manhattan that still has 6.5536 crystals?
Oh gosh. I've just been trying every place in town and they all claim their back ordered problem part blah blah blah. Yeah there's been a run on those but you know I do
know that in the next issue of 2600 there's a couple of classified ads. If I had known I would have... Yeah I saw one in the last issue and I think I'm about to go through Digi-Key. They said they're going to be at the end of September. Digi-Key might be a good source. Alright two weeks to the printer?
Two or three. Great. Thanks a lot. Keep it going. Okay.
That's right I should have mentioned the fall issue has gone to the printer. Right now the printer is
looking at it and throwing up his hands in despair
but there should be a new issue out within the next month I'd say.
And on the newsstands too.
Yes hi this is Ed. I had a question, I mean not a question, a comment on the SIT tones. One time I had recorded it on my answering machine as a joke when people would call.
That's the kind of joke that gets people in trouble Ed you know that.
Yes and what had happened is I called my answering machine from one of these private pay phones and it kicked my money back.
Well okay what you found was a private pay phone that wasn't very sophisticated.
Okay.
So what you found was a really good hack and you know if you abuse that particular hack you can make lots of free phone calls using that particular pay phone.
Oh okay yes and the thing that happened is I did get a letter from New York Telephone about like three months later telling me to remove that message.
Now wait a minute, wait a minute. How did New York Telephone know you had that message?
Well I guess I had put in a call to their customer service department and they called me back and heard it. I don't understand how that got through.
Do you have a copy of that letter?
Offhand this was many years ago, this was about seven years ago.
That sounds like a hilarious letter to get telling you to take certain tones off.
As far as I'm concerned you can put anything you want on your answering machine and they can't stop you from doing that.
Yes that's what I figured.
And the funny thing is New York Telephone pay phones would not be fooled by that.
Nobody would be fooled by that except for private machines that use that particular series of tones to either refund money or not refund money.
But the phone company would not fall prey to that.
Oh and I just had one other quick question.
The crystals the other gentleman was talking about, the 65536 crystals, what were they used for?
Well generally they're used to convert a particular device into a red box and red boxes are used to make quarter sounds.
And what's weird about it is that they've worked now for so long, for I think over 20 years, and only in the last couple of years have they started to really be seen everywhere.
I mean you go to any street corner and people are using red boxes in lieu of quarters almost as if it's just an acceptable way of making a phone call.
And you have to wonder why the phone company just hasn't done something drastic like replaced all of their pay phones with phones that don't fall into that trap.
Because everywhere, everywhere you go it's possible to just play five tones into the phone and simulate a quarter.
Yes I just had one quick question before I go.
The frequencies of those tones, are they available to the public?
Yeah, you know we've printed them a couple of times.
Does somebody over there have them?
Hang on, we might have an answer for you.
I believe the tones are 1700 and 2200 hertz.
At the same time.
Right, for 66 milliseconds with a 33 millisecond space.
Yeah, 33 milliseconds. That's for a quarter though, no?
Oh no, what is it?
We have another opinion here.
I think it's 535 millisecond pulses separated by 35 milliseconds.
Well you know there is a bit of controversy about how many milliseconds there are and it does make a difference.
It doesn't sound like much but it does make a difference.
Try them all.
Experimentation, that's the key.
I say this to up and coming hackers that it's not just getting information, it's figuring out the information that's what's important.
Yes.
Okay?
Okay, thank you very much.
Thanks for calling.
And of course, having this information does not necessarily mean that you have to make free phone calls on a pay phone, now does it?
There's all kinds of experimentation that can be done without resorting to that.
People will do all kinds of things but it's not...
See the knowledge itself is not what is evil.
It's how we all choose to apply it.
Good evening.
Yes.
Are you there?
I'm trying to get in contact with 2600.
Alright, I'm sorry.
I just gave their address so is there somebody else you're trying to get in touch with?
I had two questions, Emmanuel.
Okay.
First was with regard to the use of caller ID.
Now, I was listening to your program before and my understanding is that if caller ID is in place in your area and you're getting a call from outside of your area code,
that identification does not necessarily transcribe on the caller ID pad.
Is that true?
Well, now the information...
First of all, the area code is not what's important.
It's the...
It's whether or not you're outside your particular region.
Whether or not that...
For instance, here in New York.
Every New York, we can get caller ID from, say, 212, 718, 914, 516.
There's no limit really to how many times you can go between those area codes.
So it's not the area code.
It's the region.
And right now, a good dividing line is New York, New Jersey.
Now, there have been cases where caller ID has been transmitted from New Jersey to New York using 10-NJB.
One day, it'll cross state lines.
It'll cross from Pacific Coast to Atlantic Coast.
So that's not really the issue as far as how it's prevented from reaching you.
Right.
The second question, I had a practical problem.
I received a call recently, a collect call, as it were, from an area code down south.
And apparently, it was an annoyance call.
What I wanted to do was to find out not only the number, which I understand...
Well, I'll break the question down.
I understand that the number will eventually come with the bill because the call was accepted as collect.
Okay. Can you explain to me what this call was like?
Was it an automated call?
No, no. This was a person, I think impersonating someone else.
Okay. So basically, he tricked you into accepting the call.
Right. Exactly.
Okay. Well, what's going to happen?
First of all, I mean, how long did you stay on for?
Oh, it must have been a couple of minutes.
Okay. It's not going to be all that much.
Unless, of course, it was one of these weird phones that charges $5 for the first minute.
Right.
However, when you get your bill, you will see the number that it was called from.
However, it's probably a pay phone.
Right.
It won't tell you much. It will tell you the city it came from, but that's really it.
Well, presuming, of course, that you want to find out exactly where this call came from
and you didn't want to go through the conventional means of AT&T, how might you do that?
In other words, I'm assuming that...
It came from Sprint, incidentally, and when I called the operator back, I asked her if Sprint had...
Wait. How did you know it came from Sprint?
The Sprint operator came on?
Right.
Okay.
You have to accept the call first, right?
Right, but they don't always identify themselves as being from a particular company.
This time they did. They did identify themselves as Sprint.
All right. So...
Cool.
Now, you say you don't want to wait for the phone bill to come.
No.
Well, I would prefer not to, but the crux of my question, I know eventually the number will pop up,
but the issue is how is it that one might find out the actual origin of...
I mean, is there an address attached to this number? How would you go about doing that?
You mean once you have the number, how do you find out more information about it?
Right.
You call your phone company. You call Sprint in this particular case.
Excuse me.
And in this particular case, Sprint would tell you, if you ask them, who that number belongs to.
You're entitled to get the name and address of any number that shows up on your phone bill.
And that's definitely true with AT&T. It might be a little bit more difficult for Sprint to do it,
but if you're insistent, they will give you that information. They will.
That's interesting, because when I ask the operator, usually when a collect call comes in,
I ask for time and charges, and I would presume that they could give me that information on the spot.
But when I asked the operator at Sprint if they had ANI, she told me no.
Well, you know, an operator probably doesn't have the slightest idea what ANI is in the first place.
I mean, not to put down operators, but it's not part of the training.
Some operators know a lot, but it's not required that operators know a lot, unfortunately.
Okay?
She said no rather definitively.
Yeah, well, you know, she probably was getting, you know, off work in about two minutes anyway,
so she'd say anything definitively.
Listen, thanks for your call. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.
All right. Bye-bye.
Okay. Let's see if we have time for one more call. Good evening.
Yes, Emmanuel?
Yes, go ahead.
Yeah, I got a question on Caller ID.
The thing is that where I work, they have like, I guess, a trunk line service.
If you dial like 958, you keep on getting different numbers.
So when I say call my answer machine to see if I have numbers, I'll get a different exchange.
When I call those numbers and no one ever answers,
I have a friend that works for another place in Manhattan.
I work in Queens, and it comes up a different exchange.
But the funny thing is, when I call those numbers, they're actual numbers.
People pick up. I'm trying to figure out what's going on.
Do people pick up in the company?
Yeah, it's like, in other words, when on, like, for example, I know I'd work, I'll dial 958.
Each time I'll dial 958, and nothing, I get a different number.
Right.
If I dial those numbers, it just rings, rings, and rings.
Where my friend calls, his exchange is 613 in Manhattan.
I don't recall offhand the exchange that's showing up on my Caller ID.
But when I call back that number, they'll answer, a doctor will answer.
Another time he'll call, it's on the same phone.
It's some computer routing, and it'll be a florist or some other thing.
I'm just trying to figure it out.
That's weird. You're saying these people...
I called up the phone company, and they said,
well, it doesn't work for business or commercial kind of things.
Which seems very weird and strange.
They don't know what they're talking about.
But what you're...
It sounds like something's being crossed someplace.
These people have no link with the company that you work for.
No, no. I work for a state agency.
My friend works for a different state.
In Queens. He works in Brooklyn.
I know that sometimes they have these computerized...
pulling out these trunks.
And they're sent to just unused numbers.
Well, if I were you, what I would do is just do some very definitive tests.
Make something like five or ten phone calls to your Caller ID box.
See what the range of numbers is.
Call all of those numbers back.
Find out exactly who belongs to what number.
See what's going on, because that shouldn't be.
That means you're kind of sharing a phone pool with these people.
Because it seems strange that that would be the case.
Yeah, that's not right.
If I'm calling, say, at work, and it shows on a different number,
where you're calling just rings,
if I called 800-numbered, they would not be showing my work number.
They would be showing this trunk line number.
Am I correct in assuming that?
It should be showing the trunk number you're calling out on.
Yes, and that should have some relation to the organization you're with.
It won't be the exact DID number,
but it will be a number that is owned or used by that particular company.
It should not be used by other people.
I see. So, in other words, that would also apply like 911.
They wouldn't be actually getting the same trunk line number.
Well, that's a different technology.
I hope that's not being messed up like that.
But that's very strange, because a phone company, a girl said,
when I answered a question, said, I've got to hold on for a minute.
And that was very strange, because his exchange is 613.
Well, it's possible the data is being garbled somehow.
I don't know, but it sounds like you're onto something, and you should look into it.
We're out of time right now, so I've got to stop here.
But keep us updated. That sounds interesting.
That's going to do it for us here tonight.
We'll be back again next week.
This is Emanuel Goldstein. It's been fun.
And, of course, next week, don't forget, we're starting another marathon.
So that's always fun.
We get to meet all kinds of interesting people and talk about all kinds of self-referential things.
So, if you want to tune in next Wednesday night at 10 o'clock.
In the meantime, stay tuned for the news coming up next.
This is Emanuel Goldstein. For everybody else, have a good night. Take care.
The telephone keeps ringing
So I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving
Now I can't make a call
It couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bum-diddly-bum for the best, expect the worst
I hope that's understood
Bum-diddly-bum!
Bum-diddly-bum!
As health care reform enters center stage in the political arena,
more and more attention is drawn to recognizing alternative healing modalities,
such as therapeutic touch and massage therapy.
Nurses and other professionals are now engaged in these alternative modalities,
taking care of people in offices, hospitals, clinics, and in private practice,
in all kinds of ways.
In the United States, health care reform is becoming more and more important.
In the United States, health care reform is becoming more and more important.
In the United States, health care reform is becoming more and more important.
In the United States, health care reform is becoming more and more important.
In the United States, health care reform is becoming more and more important.
In the United States, health care reform is becoming more and more important.
In the United States, health care reform is becoming more and more important.
In the United States, health care reform is becoming more and more important.
In the United States, health care reform is becoming more and more important.
In the United States, health care reform is becoming more and more important.
In the United States, health care reform is becoming more and more important.
Good evening, in the news tonight, a deal is cut in South Africa
Good evening, in the news tonight, a deal is cut in South Africa
Good evening, in the news tonight, a deal is cut in South Africa
Good evening, in the news tonight, a deal is cut in South Africa
Good evening, in the news tonight, a deal is cut in South Africa
Good evening, in the news tonight, a deal is cut in South Africa
Good evening, in the news tonight, a deal is cut in South Africa
Good evening, in the news tonight, a deal is cut in South Africa
Good evening, in the news tonight, a deal is cut in South Africa
Politicians cannot read a bus schedule
And violence greets Aristides' officials returning to power in Haiti
And in New York, the mayor takes off the kid gloves as the local political scene gets hot
And in New York, the mayor takes off the kid gloves as the local political scene gets hot
With these and other stories, I'm Jose Santiago in New York
With Verna Avery-Brown in Washington
And this is the news for Wednesday, September 8th, 1993
First to these headlines, topping the news
PLO leader Yasser Arafat is flying from Tunisia
To meet with the PLO executive committee in Cairo
Arafat is expected to win a majority on the committee
To approve the recent peace plan made with Israel
Meanwhile, an Israeli newspaper claims that Arafat has spoken
Of Israeli plans to return the Golan Heights to Syria
In exchange for peace
In South Africa earlier today, 25 people were killed
In three separate attacks in a township just east of Johannesburg
This brings the death toll to a total of 55 in the area
The increase in violence comes at a time of rising political expectations
The newly formed Transitional Executive Council
Will be sharing power with the present government of F.W. de Klerk
From Johannesburg, Patrick Bond has this report