B.A.I. New York, next stop will be Emanuel Goldstein, off the hook. First a message or two.
Oh, that's good gospel music. For the best in good gospel music, Saturdays at 3.30 p.m. over
the station, WBAI 99.5, with your host and legend, Brother Thurman Root.
Who am I? Why am I here? Let him know, let him know what time it is. Let him know. It's time to change.
Sure, we must change, but some values are timeless. God had put me here to play
basketball and to do my thing on the court, and so that's why I'm gonna do my
thing. I'm one of the lucky people in the world. I found something I always wanted
to do, and I have enjoyed every single minute of it. By dawn, waterfront homes were
flooded, their basements ruined, signs twisted in the fierce winds, power lines
tugged violently on utility poles. It is announced from Buckingham Palace that
with regret, the Prince and Princess of Wales have decided to separate. If I
could change everything, I would. If I could put my hand over her face, I would.
So, if you just want large welcome music, I'm not your man. Hit the siren, Doug.
Tune in for a shortcut through 1992, New Year's Eve at 11, here on WBAI. Hey, listen, I'm not so
worried about my fear of re-election. I got things I want to do to help people
in this country, and I think I'm gonna win the election, too. It might happen.
Yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my butt.
Wow, Amy Fisher on WBAI. I never thought I'd hear it. Anyway, it's 10 o'clock at
night on this Wednesday night, time for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall. I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would, from Diddley Bond, for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood, from Diddley Bond.
music
music
music
And good evening, everybody. This is Off the Hook, the program about technology and how it
affects you, and how it can hurt you, and how you can hurt it, how it can help you, and how you can help...
Well, you know, you get the idea. It's a program about the interesting developments going on
today, and what's going to happen in the next few years, because a lot is going on now,
and a lot will continue to go on in the future, and just where we go in this particular voyage
is up to us, as it always is.
Well, there are new technologies being introduced almost daily, and this week is no exception.
There was an article in the paper a couple days ago about the new enhanced telephones.
I don't know if anybody has seen these yet, but in the next year or so, you should be seeing a lot of them.
Kind of a combination of computers and telephones, except more like telephones, really.
You plug them into your phone and phone jack, and you can get electronic mail,
buy all kinds of neat products, and do electronic banking and things like that.
According to Newsday, Tuesday's Newsday, actually, after years of hype,
a computer disguised as a telephone is finally starting to come to market.
A new class of plug-in anywhere telephones, equipped with modems that permit text
and limited graphics to be captured on a small screen, known as smartphones, screen phones,
or enhanced telephones, take your pick.
Essentially a bridge between telephones and computers, these new devices allow
ordinary telephone service users with no knowledge of computing, no knowledge whatsoever,
stupid people like you and me, allows these people to tap into some of the benefits
of the information age, and at the same time, these easy-to-use devices
might just possibly spur the development of new information services.
Says Joshua Harris, president of Jupiter Communications,
the phone is the most used consumer electronics device there is,
with the exception of the television, of course.
The device we're using now is like an AM radio.
The screen phone is like a boom box.
I wonder if they'll be outlawed on subways.
Well, while smartphones have been on the verge of arriving for the past few years,
sort of the DAT syndrome, manufacturers are finally beginning to ship them.
The first wave of major players is starting to launch their first phones,
according to Harris.
No idea how much these things are going to cost.
It would be kind of neat.
Actually, the same sort of logic holds for all kinds of new technologies,
like picture phones, for instance.
They're so expensive now.
Someone suggested to me, I forget who it was that suggested this to me,
but they said if picture phones were offered at a very, very, very low price,
like, say, $100 for a picture phone, instead of $1,500 or something,
what they cost now, well, you flood the market with these things.
And yeah, AT&T can take a loss.
They can afford it.
So you sell all these picture phones for $100,
and inside of two months, picture phones are everywhere.
But that's not the way they do it.
They prefer to sell it for a huge amount of money.
Only a very select few people will get it, and possibly the technology will fail.
Possibly it will never get off the ground.
So listen up, AT&T. I think it's a good idea.
I think it's something that might not make sense from a business point of view,
but from a sociological point of view, I think it's kind of a cool thing to do.
Anyway, that's only one form of new technology that is hitting the market.
Picture phones is another, finally.
A good 30 years after they were demonstrated at the World's Fair in Flushing.
Looks like they might finally start selling the things.
Well, I can hardly wait.
And then, of course, you've got the useful gizmos,
like this one we were talking about a couple of weeks ago, Gotta Go.
Here it is, big spread in the newspaper once again.
The perfect gift for phonies.
Well, I couldn't have phrased it better myself.
I'll read you what it says in Newsday,
and you can just sort of figure the rest out for yourself.
As if relationships don't breed enough insecurity, now comes Gotta Go,
a pint-sized electronic telephone accessory.
It perfectly mimics the clicking sound phones generate
to alert you of another call in waiting.
Call in waiting.
So, at the push of a button, you no longer have to rack your brain
for a lame excuse to get off the phone.
Your significant other, talkative telemarketers, or Gabby associates,
will hear what sounds like another call waiting,
and, with your devious help,
will believe that you have an urgent call on the other line.
It's really easy to...
People.
Oh, I have another story waiting.
I'm going to skip this one then.
All right.
Let's go over here.
I don't think anybody would pay $20 for what I just did, would they?
If so, send your checks in here,
because I don't know why anybody would pay $20 for that.
Speaking of telemarketers,
there's this law that was supposed to go into effect on Sunday.
It hasn't, because telemarketers have big mouths,
and they know when to speak up
and don't know when to shut up.
I don't know when to shut up,
but the law has been suspended.
I wish it was that easy for us,
but the law has been suspended
until a lot more money is spent on lawsuits and things like that.
But to update you,
a handful of small business owners,
including a chimney sweep in Oregon,
are blocking the Federal Communications Commission
from clamping down on the use of recorded telephone sales pitches.
A federal law against such calls
would have gone into effect on Sunday,
but Catherine Moser,
who runs the Lucky Leprechaun Chimney Sweep service
of Kaiser Oregon,
very hard to argue with someone like that,
and other users of various devices,
persuaded a federal judge to put it on hold.
Moser says her small business
didn't start to make a profit
until she began contacting homeowners
with her auto-dialing telephone
and recorded message device,
for which she paid $1,795.
She says no other form of advertising
brought her as much business.
She is president
of the National Association of Telecomputer Operators,
which is a plaintiff in the lawsuit.
The group claims about 40 members,
including carpet cleaners,
insurance agents,
and pest control companies,
ironically enough.
U.S. District Court Judge James A. Redden
in Oregon told the FCC
late Friday that he was delaying
enforcement of the statute
until the lawsuit is resolved.
He argues that the law violates
her constitutional rights to free speech
and equal protection
because it would keep her
from using the automated devices
but allow companies that can't afford
employees to do the talking
to continue soliciting by phone.
We're talking about those things
that I'm sure everybody listening
has gotten at some point
where you're just relaxing at home,
minding your own business,
perhaps composing a poem or something,
and you get this phone call
from a recording that says
we have a special sale
on this particular product
and we're calling to tell you all about it.
And you hang up and you pick up again
and it's still there talking to you
because it doesn't know that you hung up.
It's a machine.
And occasionally they collide
with your answering machine
and the two of them just sort of
talk back and forth to each other
for a while.
How do we just put up with it?
Is it like junk mail
or is it more intrusive than junk mail?
And if we do make it illegal
how in the world do we enforce
something like that?
It seems kind of difficult.
I guess a way of enforcing it
most people calling you with these
sales pitches would want you
to know who they are
so if somebody did it
it wouldn't be too hard
to put the finger on them.
Seems like a lot of trouble to go to.
Anyway, Ray Culker
whose company Culker Systems
Incorporated in Carlsbad, California
makes the equipment that Moser uses
for her lucky leprechaun
chimney sweep service.
He says his machines are used mostly
by small businesses.
FCC counsel Jane Magoo
said the commission
hoped to get a written opinion.
Too bad it's not a male.
I would love to say Mr. Magoo but I can't.
But anyway, Ms. Magoo
said the commission hoped to get a written opinion
from the judge so that
it could decide the extent to which
Redden's order blocks enforcement of the law nationwide.
Michael Jacobson
whose Center for the Study of Commercialism
lobbied for the new law said
he sympathizes with Moser but
her business success with the machine has to be balanced
against people's right to privacy.
These junk phone calls are far more intrusive
than junk mail.
Ronald K.L. Collins
K.L. stands for Night Lightning I guess
a George Washington University
law professor specializing in the
First Amendment and commercial speech
said the law was written to avoid
constitutional problems.
He said the Supreme Court has never given commercial
speech as much protection as political
speech and that mechanical
speech like that on Moser's recorded
sales pitches is way down at the bottom.
Non-profit groups
political pollsters and special telephone
alert systems that notify people
about community emergencies would continue
to be allowed to use computerized
recorded calls. Live phone pitches
would be allowed but would have to stop if the
recipient said never to call
again. The law
would allow recipients of such calls to file
a complaint and they also could make
a complaint to the state attorney general and file
a lawsuit seeking up to
$500
in damages or triple damages
if the calls are willful or knowingly
in violation of the law.
So, how do you deal
with junk phone calls?
How many junk phone calls do you get?
Just one of the many
side benefits of
computerized technologies and how they
relate to phones and things like that.
And, checking
out some other news stories
Okay, how's this one?
A new central system is being tested
in Denmark for people to call
a doctor service at off hours and
possibly get a house call
for non-emergency cases. This is not
the equivalent of 911.
The patients in the Danish city
of Odense complained
loudly that the waiting for a phone
call to be answered was too long while
the provider said their computerized logs
showed no caller had to wait more than
10 minutes. After many
complaints, they tested the equipment which showed it was
not able to register waits longer
than 10 minutes.
So,
yet another computerized
problem.
Couldn't register a wait longer than
10 minutes. Therefore,
they all seemed to be exactly 10 minutes long.
That should have tipped you off, you know, that something
was wrong right there, but I guess
it took some time.
Well,
let's see what else we can find
here.
Not too much very interesting happening
this week, I don't think, as far as
computer foul-ups and things like that.
According to the Associated Press,
officials in South Korea have decided to
use the abacus to
tabulate 24 million votes in Friday's
presidential elections, which already
occurred. The abacus was used to
avoid a recurrence of charges in a
1987 presidential race that the computer
count was electronically manipulated.
The Central Election Management Committee
employed about 300 abacus experts
to oversee the counting.
And the writer comments,
it's curious that these people find
manual manipulation an unnecessary
back formation, since
manipulation means movement by hand.
It's curious that they find that to be
preferable to electronic
manipulation.
All right, we're going to take phone calls.
212-279-3400. First,
a brief musical break,
and a bit of advice
too, for those of you out there
taking it easy,
getting a little bit of a rest,
don't be too quick
to plow right back
into the rat race.
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called T-shirt and sacred college scarf.
He's set on a world situation, but just for a laugh.
You'll be working for the rat race.
You know you're wasting your time.
Working for the rat race.
You're no friend of mine.
Working for the rat race.
You know you're wasting your time.
Working for the rat race.
You're no friend of mine.
Just working at your leisure to learn
the things you don't need.
The promises you make tomorrow carry no guarantee.
I've seen the qualifications.
You've got my PhD.
I've got one I told them all.
It did nothing for me.
Working for the rat race.
You know you're wasting your time.
You're working for the rat race.
You're no friend of mine.
Working for the rat race.
Yeah, those are the specials here on Off the Hook.
Yeah, those are still the specials,
but we're going to fade them down just a little bit
because we've got important business to take care of.
And the song we heard was
Rat Race from their second LP.
Yes, our phone number is 212-279-3400
and we're taking phone calls on anything people have
as far as new experiments in technology
and observations on the passing scene.
Things such as automated phone calls.
Should they be illegal?
Are they an intrusion of your privacy?
And whatever else might be in the news these days
that we may have missed,
there are certainly all kinds of things.
So let's open it up to the telephones.
Again, 212-279-3400.
Good evening.
Hello, Manuel.
How are you doing?
I'm glad I got through
because this has been on my mind for quite a while.
You were talking about the privacy issue,
specifically about hacking from your perspective.
I thought of an example that might be...
something to show that you should have
some more respect for privacy.
Just listen for a minute.
What if you were exploring the property,
someone's property,
and they were a very apprehensive person,
easily startled,
and it was evening.
And they came out of their home to the top of their stairs...
Sir, can I just stop you right here
because I don't want to get involved in another house analogy.
This is pointless.
We've been through this a hundred times.
They fell down the stairs and injured themselves
because you were on their property
when they weren't expecting to see anyone.
Yes, but that does not hold up.
Your very presence would have resulted in an injury.
Right.
And if I'm logging into people's personal computers
and calculators and TV sets and things like that,
maybe you'd have a point there,
but this is not the case with computer hackers.
They're not doing that.
They're going into business systems,
things with hundreds of users on them,
and they're blending into the scenery is what they're doing.
That's what they're most guilty of.
And I don't think anybody's getting overly startled
at their presence.
They're getting overly startled
at their incompetence in letting them on in the first place.
Your point is well taken.
I just wanted to say that, you know,
I think you have to respect people's privacy
because there can be one,
because you were insisting that, you know,
just like you talk about exploring an office building,
you said, well, you're not doing anything.
You're just there, you know,
and I just wanted to point out that, you know,
just being there could result in some kind of mishap.
Well, yeah, and, you know,
if you showed up in a very sensitive location
in, say, the military,
obviously they'd be very upset
and maybe disappointed that you were there,
but they would be taking some kind of precaution
to prevent you from getting there in the first place.
They don't leave the gates wide open at NSA
to allow people to walk into the main door
and penetrate deep within their buildings.
They have something in place,
like a security guard to keep you out,
but you don't have the same thing with computer systems.
They're wide open,
so, of course, people naturally want to explore them,
and I don't think they should be charged
with breaking and entering if the door is wide open.
But what if they brought a virus into it?
Is that possible by getting access?
Well, I don't think very many people
are going to accidentally bring a virus
into a computer system.
But happens? Would that happen?
See, I know practically nothing.
I'm asking you.
It's extremely, extremely, remotely unlikely.
But what if it did in a very important place?
What if that did happen?
Okay, well, let's be hypothetical,
and let's say that somebody was able to get in
and somehow, through an accident,
cause damage of some sort.
Obviously, they should be held accountable for something,
but I don't think they should be held accountable
for the lack of security,
and I think that's the main reason
why any kind of damage would take place.
But I should point out that damage does not occur.
I'm not the most sympathetic entity,
but why does everyone have to be worried
about who's looking over their shoulder
all the time, you see?
You should have a bit more respect
that you don't like.
I mean, you're always talking about,
you're worried about all the different erosion
of privacy in this country,
and yet here you make it incumbent
on the victim to protect himself against you.
Well, I hardly consider TRW or the military
to be victims.
If they have these computer systems
and they cannot protect them,
then they are...
But should they protect them?
We are the victims, you see.
If they're theirs, I mean...
But they're not theirs, they're ours, you see.
We entrust these people with data,
and it concerns us,
and if they have it wide open
so that some kid in Holland can get into it,
you know, I feel like I'm the victim,
and I should be able to say something about that.
Do you understand?
And as far as respect for privacy,
I think you'll find hackers
have more respect for privacy
than just about anybody.
Hackers are the ones going around
telling people to encrypt,
and I'll tell you right now,
use encryption programs
when you're using computer systems,
when you're sending electronic mail
back and forth.
Use a program called PGP.
It's very good.
Now, why does the government
want to stop people from using it?
Who has respect for privacy,
and who wants to be able to
look over people's shoulders
and read things?
Our government doesn't have respect for privacy.
Okay, I think we're in agreement there.
I won't go on.
Thank you for hearing me out.
I just wanted to say that.
I mean, it's a different perspective.
Thank you.
Good night.
Okay, thanks for calling.
I don't know,
the house analogy just upsets me
because I've heard it so many times,
and it's just,
it's so far from the truth that,
you know, we've reached the point
where we just shouldn't talk about that anymore
because it's been talked to death,
and it doesn't hold up.
It just does not hold up.
You get into a telephone company system,
you get into a credit reporting system,
you wander around,
you see all the files they're keeping on everybody.
I'm sorry, that's not the same
as walking into somebody's house.
It's just not the same.
TRW maybe is walking into our homes
by grabbing all this data about us,
by telling us and telling everybody else
that has access to it
what we buy,
when we pay our bills,
you know,
what our particular tastes are.
And judging us by that,
that's an intrusion,
that's an invasion of privacy,
and that's something that,
you know,
we need to speak out against a lot more.
But it's hard to speak out against things like that
if you don't have access to the information,
if you don't know the information even exists.
Remember, computer hackers
were the first ones to find it.
Good evening.
Hi.
I have some quick things to tell you.
Oh.
You weren't here last week,
now were you?
No, I was just listening last week.
I ran out of tape,
that's why I didn't,
but now I have a tape recorder.
You ran out of tape?
You can only talk if you have tape?
No, no, no.
I just like to.
Well, that's besides the point.
Why do some call cards collect a quarter
on intercepted calls,
such as recordings,
and some call cards don't?
In other words,
if you get a wrong number,
like the number you have reached,
you sometimes,
on some call card phones,
they'll collect the money,
and some call card phones,
you'll get the money back.
Well, it's because some are better than others.
Some are able to detect
when a call is actually picked up,
and some simply wait for, say, time,
and use that as an indication.
Well, how do they know
that it's intercepted,
meaning a call that's a wrong number?
Well, those tones are supposed to,
on some particular machines,
they mean something.
They hear those particular tones,
and they say,
ah, intercept recording,
do not charge,
and it's a good way to get around
getting charged for things sometimes, too,
if you train all your friends to pick up
and say that every time
they pick up the phone,
but it's not a very accurate way
of getting around those charges.
Oh, and so, in other words,
they listen for special tones?
Some do. Some do.
I would not say it's a very reliable way
of detecting billing.
How does the New York telephone
know whether those tones are on or not?
They just know whether a call is intercepted
no matter what.
Well, the New York telephone,
it's their network, after all, so...
Or AT&T.
They don't have much of a problem
with deciding when a call is answered
or not answered.
And believe it or not,
you could spoof AT&T when you're in a hotel
when you can make a long-distance call
and just dial AT&T,
and when she asks you your room number,
you could just give her
somebody else's room number.
When the operator...
Okay, you're inside a hotel.
Yeah, you may want to make
a long-distance call.
Instead of dialing direct,
you dial 0 for AT&T or 00,
and you say,
I'd like to make this call,
and she'll say,
okay, what's your hotel room number?
And then I could just say
the next room number
or something like that.
I can't believe that still works.
That still works.
I can't believe they don't have
any other way of verifying it.
It just depends on your honesty there.
Do you know why there's no 900 information
or 1-900 information?
Because it's being restructured
for an exciting network architecture change.
That's all I know.
It said, look for new 900 information in 1992.
That was last year.
Maybe they're late.
It does say that, huh?
Yeah, it does say that.
I don't think...
You don't have three-way, do you?
No, I don't.
Okay, because I don't think
we can access 900 anything.
Let me just recommend a book.
I can try that, I guess.
A book people want to know
about digital switches.
It's called
Fundamentals of Digital Switching.
I don't know who the author is,
but it's in local libraries.
Also, is there going to be
a 2600 meeting on January 1st?
I'm very happy you mentioned that
because we do have an announcement
as far as that goes.
I know a couple of weeks ago...
Now, the other thing, the last thing...
Are you going to let me answer the question?
Yeah.
Okay.
Because it's January 1st,
the first Friday of the month,
that coincides with New Year's Day.
As a result, a lot of things will be closed.
Throughout the nation,
all 2600 meetings are going to be held
the following Friday,
which is January 8th.
So we're just going to pretend
that the second Friday
is actually the first Friday.
And now, I just want to say that
if anybody wants to make free phone calls,
go into any chemical bank,
look for the gray phone
with the sign that says service line.
It's sitting right in front
of the service representative.
I don't think this is a service
a chemical bank offers.
Well, I mean, it's not,
but there's a gray phone
with a sign on it saying service line.
It's right by the phone,
right by the service representative.
The service representative
could be doing something else.
They don't know that
you're making free phone calls.
They think you're calling service line.
So are you saying that
any chemical bank has this same flaw?
Every chemical bank
has the same gray desk telephone.
Mm-hmm.
And you can make
all the free phone calls you want.
You mean, you just...
I mean, with a reasonable cost.
You just dial?
Right.
And they just let you do this?
Right.
That's incredible.
Well, yeah, they are a bank.
You know, I once got that reply
from somebody when I...
A bank.
I do messenger work
and I make all my phone calls
from a chemical bank.
Uh-huh.
Or a manufacturer's handover.
They're the same thing.
Okay.
I made long-distance calls
and everything.
I don't think you need to
tell everybody listening
what it is exactly
that you've done,
but thanks for sharing it with us.
All right.
Okay.
Halloways to everybody.
Okay.
Take care.
Bye.
We don't recommend
that people go to banks
and make free phone calls
unless it specifically says
in your particular bank statement
that that's one of the privileges
of your account.
All right.
We're going to try now.
We're going to try
to call 900-Information.
I don't think
this is going to work.
Okay.
We got a dial tone.
We have managed
to get that far.
Now, 900-Information
doesn't cost anything,
but I think we still
block it here.
Let's see what happens.
Architecture change.
The 900-Directory
assistance number
has been disconnected.
There is no further
assistance available
at this time.
Please call
900-Information.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The 900-Directory
assistance number
has been disconnected.
There is no further
information available
at this time.
Due to a network
architecture change,
the 900-Directory
assistance number
has been disconnected.
There is no further
information available
at this time.
Well, you heard it yourself.
That's all we can tell you.
We don't know
anything else.
This is what they've
been saying now
for a couple of years.
There's a network
architecture change
that apparently involves
dismantling the whole thing.
So it used to be
that you had to
have a network
architecture change
So it used to be
that you would call
900-Information
and they would list
every single 900 number
that there was
extremely quickly.
All the sex lines
and everything.
And I guess
they just can't do
that anymore.
So they're going to
try and figure out
something else.
Whether they charge
or not charge,
I don't know.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
Are you there?
Yes, I'm here.
Go ahead.
Turning off my radio.
Okay.
That's the first thing
you can get someone to do.
Someone should invent
a special radio
phone-in telephone
that automatically
receives radio
and then shuts off
when the phone
gets picked up.
That's a good idea.
Sort of a combination
radio-phone.
And have a built-in
daemon dialer
for people who are
really determined
to break through.
Sometimes I suspect
you've got people
online who are
doing that every week.
Yeah, yeah.
I suppose the big
question is
what is the federal
government doing
to ensure that
all their top-secret
installations
are not having
auto-dialers by
chimney-sweeps
I tried the 660
for getting my phone
to call back.
I'm in Brooklyn
and you have to dial
the entire seven digits
of the number,
not the last four
of the exchange.
Okay.
Also, to the person
who was complaining
about no longer
being able to get
free phone books
outside the New York
City area,
I guess if you're
a New York City resident,
I managed to do that
but I did it by accident.
I called up and said,
Hi, I just need
all of the phone books
for the five boroughs,
all of the white
and yellow pages
that you've got.
A few weeks later,
I got three cartons
of phone books.
I got 39 volumes
for the entire
9X area,
as near as I can figure.
I don't know what
would have happened
if I'd asked for it.
Wow.
On the other hand,
I did this from
a government office
and they may have
just been bending
over backwards
to be obliging.
Did they know you
were in a government office?
I think so, yeah.
I think I gave
the agency name
for the billable
number that they,
you know,
they want to know
what your main
phone number is
so they can not
bill it to you,
but they need to
know that anyway.
See, I asked for
several copies
of my white pages
and I wound up
with two copies
of the white pages
and nine copies
of the yellow pages,
which I have no use
for whatsoever.
I don't know why
they bothered sending that.
Do you notice
the phone books
are different this year?
I haven't, oh,
with the business
in the back,
that makes me crazy.
Yeah, if you're
looking for something,
you have to know,
first of all,
if it's a business
or a person,
you have to know
everybody else's
first name as if
they're all part
of the same family.
Right, well they've
been doing that
in other parts
of the country.
It really depends
on where you are,
so I have seen
that before,
but I don't tend
to categorize things.
I still hate
the yellow pages
with this business
to business nonsense.
Half the time
I'm calling companies
which are wholesale
and retail,
and I don't
particularly know
where they've
decided to spend
their money
for advertising.
That's the first
thing that's around.
Right, well when you
order the whole set
from them,
you get that also,
and the whole thing
was bogus.
Well, it got too big
and we needed to
split it into two volumes,
and that's very easy.
You go A through M
and N through Z,
but they wanted
to be able to
charge people twice
to have them
listed in both places,
at least that was
my assumption.
Yellow page ads
are extremely
expensive too.
I'm not surprised,
but I assume
they don't charge you
if you have a business
and you just have
to pay for it.
For a business line,
you have to have
a listing in the
yellow page.
This is how they
explained it to me once.
You absolutely
have to be in the
yellow pages.
Whether or not
you have a display ad
is up to you,
but you do have
to pay this
monthly fee,
which is exorbitant.
Well, and then
in that case,
you lie to them
and you don't tell
them you have
a business phone,
I assume,
because I certainly
know a lot of
businesses who do
not list themselves
in the yellow pages.
The ones that look
like big, swollen
desk set phones?
Yeah.
Those are really
horrible.
They're very popular
with the Chinese
restaurants,
I've noticed.
They're popular
throughout the world
in Chinese restaurants.
I saw some of those
in Amsterdam.
Ah, that I didn't notice.
But only at Chinese
restaurants.
I don't know why this is.
Well, I assume
it's the same way
that all the Korean
salad bars all have
exactly the same
brands of certain
things in them,
that there's some
kind of distributorship,
the mechanisms of
distribution,
that ensures that
they will all carry
this brand of mustard
and that brand of
soy milk,
and if they open a
restaurant,
you get this phone.
It's a whole world
of activity that we
know nothing about,
I guess.
Right.
Did you ever talk
about the phones
in New Zealand?
I've never heard you
talk about that,
and I would just be
a little curious
if you know anything
about them
and their history.
I know nothing
about phones
in New Zealand.
Well, neither do I,
except for the one
with the red dial.
The reason I was
having so much
trouble is because
the rotary dial
goes the wrong way.
Does it?
Yes.
Just like the water
spirals in the
different directions
around the world.
I went around
Australia saying,
gee, the sun rises
in the west here,
right?
And I would grin,
and they wouldn't
find it at all funny,
but when I got to
New Zealand,
the phone did go
the wrong way,
and I wasn't there
long enough to see
if anyone had an
explanation for it.
Well, I guess I can
tell you that in
this issue coming up,
the winter issue,
there will be a
picture of a phone
from a Scandinavian
country, and if you
look at the push
buttons, you'll find
that they go in a
different order.
Are they calculator
order?
Yeah, I guess
they're calculator
order.
I never really
thought of it that
way, but that's
probably the way
they thought of it.
My understanding
was that phones
and calculators
were intentionally
not done the same
way.
Here, they weren't,
but there, for some
reason, they were
done the same
way.
Okay, that's
neat.
Yeah, so if you're
ever over there, you
can really get very
confused pretty quickly
and dial all kinds of
strange people.
All right, thanks a
lot.
Okay.
I'll have to send you
some money and get a
subscription.
Okay, thanks for
calling.
Bye-bye.
Our number is
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
Hello.
Hi.
This is Off the Hook.
That's what it is,
and you are on the
air.
Yes.
I just wanted to make
sure the 2600 meeting
is going to be on
January 8th?
January 8th, not the
1st, yes.
All right.
Second of all, last
week, somebody was
asking about the
video phone and about
the rate at which the
pictures were sent.
Okay.
I want to mention,
I'm not certain about
this, but I'm pretty
sure it's a slow scan
so that they send,
like, one image
either every 30
seconds or when you
press the button and
they send it in a
burst.
I think it's faster
than that.
Really?
Yeah.
Judging from the ads
I've seen, it looks
like kind of a jerky
motion, and that would
tell me, like, maybe
one a second or
something like that,
maybe two a second.
All right.
Not enough to really
have video imaging, but
certainly enough to get
the point across.
All right.
Aside from that, you
were talking earlier
about these telemarketing
machines.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As far as that goes,
my philosophy on that,
I don't really see how
they could be made
illegal and still...
Because, I mean,
then live telemarketers
can still call and
that's just as much of
an intrusion.
Well, you know what I
don't see?
I don't see how they
can make a profit off
these things.
They say that they've
gotten customer
response because of
it, and everybody I
know that gets a call
from one of these
things absolutely hates
it.
Yeah.
So I don't quite...
But then again, you
know, these free
vacations, quote-unquote,
that you get on little
postcards, they seem
to be doing quite well
too.
900 numbers seem to
be working, so I
don't know.
Maybe people are just
stupid or something.
And then you pick up
and you listen to it
and it says, if you
want to get to such
and such entertainment
thing, just wait on the
line and you'll be
switched over directly.
You don't have to say
anything, press any
tones, you'll be
switched over
automatically and be
charged.
Now, what I want to
know is what happens
if your answering
machine picks up on
one of those?
Exactly.
That's a very good
question and that's
something that we've
raised before.
It's another rip-off.
Okay.
They make enough of
a profit off the
amount of times that
you've been on the
line to really get
ahead in a very
unscrupulous way.
Yes, indeed.
Now, let me ask
you, are you familiar
with New York
Telephone Pay Phones?
Yes, I've seen them
around, yeah.
Okay.
Now, I was
wondering about this.
Now, I know this, as
far as not anything
about the tones with
dialing and whatnot,
I'm talking about the
tones going back the
other way over the
toll network for
CoinCollect.
Right.
Right.
And there's the
tone which is the same
tone as the telephone
which is the same tone
as the MF2.
2, yes.
Right.
Now, I heard that
before and I still hear
it when somebody calls
me from a pay phone.
I hear it at the end
after they hang up.
Right.
Now, what I tried doing
was I tried sending the
tone over to
CollectorCoin.
Which end were you on?
I was on the
receiving end.
Okay.
They called me from
a pay phone.
Okay.
And I sent the MF2
900 milliseconds duration.
Uh-huh.
Nothing happened.
Nothing happened.
Well, I'm not
surprised.
People have tried
that before and it
doesn't work most of
the time.
I mean, I guess the
phone company is just
one step ahead as far
as that goes.
It would be great if
you could do that.
It would be great if
you could make the
phone swallow the
money of whoever is
calling you.
Yeah.
Or give it back even.
Yes.
But there are
occasions where that
works but only in
fairly primitive areas
from what I
understand.
I've never seen it
work myself.
Why is that?
Why is it only
in primitive areas?
Why is it that it
no longer works?
Do they use some
type of DC signaling
along with it or
something?
I don't have an answer
for that.
The other thing I was
thinking, also they
used to, in the old
documentation it was
mentioned an operator
release tone.
Yeah.
Which was KP.
Which was sent first.
I tried that option
also and that didn't
seem to work.
Is there a possibility
that maybe it just
has to be really,
really loud?
Loud enough that
you can't simulate it?
Well, loudness is
something that you
can't simulate.
If you don't get
something loud enough
obviously it's not
going to work.
So make sure that the
volume is there.
And then if it
doesn't work after
that then you can be
pretty sure that
there's something else
happening here.
The reason I was
asking about that is
because I noticed
that on one payphone
that did not mute
the tones as it was
supposed to, it was
really loud.
Whereas the tones
sent all the way
over the total
network were really
dim.
Were the tones
loud in your
ear at the payphone
or were they loud
over the network?
Or could you even
tell?
I'm talking about
the payphone that
was supposed to
mute it and it
didn't.
Okay.
And it was really
loud.
Yeah.
Whereas the tones
sent from home to
the other payphone
were actually,
were very soft,
received very soft,
not muted at all,
and also didn't
collect.
Okay.
Perhaps somebody
might do a little
research and I
might be able to
find something there
at some point.
Okay.
So I'll be there
January 8th.
Okay.
Thank you very
much.
So long.
Happy holidays.
Okay.
Fiber, any
comments?
Yeah.
Only that...
Is this on?
Oh, you've
got to talk into
it.
Oh, okay.
Sorry.
Yeah.
KP is Coin
Return, and like
he said, MF2 is
Coin Collect.
But I don't
know what
MF2 is.
But the reason
why when he
plays it nothing
happens is very
simple, and that's
that the tones
are signaled
from the
automated,
automatic
coin toll
system,
ACTS.
And simply,
he's not in it.
He's in his
house.
It's this
subsystem of
what used to
be TSPS and
what is now
OSPS, the
toll network
operator service
position system.
ACTS is a
subsystem of
the payphone.
And the
payphone also
signals back to
ACTS when you
insert coins for
a toll call.
Now, are they
using a separate
line to do the
signaling?
Separate than the
voice line?
Yep.
It's the way the
call is routed
over the toll
network.
The payphone is
routed through the
CO to a
position on the
operator service
position system
network, and
through there the
tallying up of
coins and signaling
and all that stuff
will work, though.
And that's
sending to ACTS as
well, isn't it?
Right.
That's because you're
originating the call
from a payphone.
In order to
originate a call
from a payphone
over the toll
network, you're
going through
ACTS.
I see.
But if I was to
call someone and
they're sitting in
their house and
they decided to
play back a
couple of tones,
they're in their
house.
They're not
originating these
tones from the
network.
Right.
So if you could
somehow convince
that payphone that
the tone was
coming from
ACTS instead of
from the guy's
house, it just
might return the
coin or it just
might collect the
coin.
It's possible that
in conjunction with
that that there's
some DC line
signaling.
Because originally
that's all they
used was DC line
signaling.
And on the lines
that do not use
the 1,700 and
2,200 hertz for
nickel diamond
quarter, on
payphones that
do that, it's
very possible that
with the coin
collecting and
coin return tones
that they're
accompanied by
some sort of
DC signaling.
Because usually
right after the
tone is played,
the coin relay is
manipulated to
either drop the
coin out of the
hopper and into
the coin collect
box or out the
coin slot.
So it most
likely is some
sort of stimulus
with DC signaling,
which would
probably be either
a reversal of
voltage or a
doubling of the
current.
Fascinating.
Wonderful world
of payphones.
OK.
212-279-3400.
Thanks,
FiberOptic,
for that analysis.
And let's go
back to the phones.
Good evening.
Whoops.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi.
Good evening.
How are you?
I'm fine.
What's on your
mind?
OK.
How practical is
it to use
internet to send
email overseas?
And how do I go
about getting a
unique Internet
Internet user ID.
If you have a pen, they're both in 212, 877-4854 is the voice number, and the modem number
is 787-3100, and you can connect at 2400 BPS, and there's a sign-up information along with
the price.
Price is separate depending on whether you want internet access or just access to Unix,
but it's a very realistic price, and it's a very good service.
I myself have an account on it, and the name of the sysops are Alexis Rosen and Jim Baumbach,
and they'll be able to answer any questions that you'd have, but they're the only system
I know of, for a fact, in all of New York City, that actually offers access to the internet.
All right, so hopefully we'll hear more from them in the future.
As far as the reliability of sending mail overseas, you really can't beat the internet,
I don't think.
How easy is it?
Well, I mean, it takes a little bit of training to figure out how to make certain commands
work, but it's simple.
Don't be put off by that.
It really is simple.
Once you know what to type, and once you learn the format of addresses and things like that,
anybody can do it.
All you need to know is someone's address, and it makes absolutely no difference whether
they're on Mars or whether they're next door.
If they're on the internet, all you need is the address.
It's like they're right there on the same computer, almost.
Yeah, you know, those addresses are confusing, because they seem kind of long.
I mean, how do you...
Is there an order?
Well, yeah, they are long, but once you realize what each segment of it means, the first segment
is the username, then you have the machine name, then you have what kind of hookup it
is to the network, whether it's educational or a company of some sort, and then you have,
if at all, you have the country that it's in.
United States, they don't put the country, so you don't have that part.
It seems long when you add all that together, but then a phone number is long, too.
If you just look at a phone number for the first time without knowing what it is, and
you put a country card in front of it and all that kind of thing, it can be intimidating.
Also, the syntax for that name is standard.
That's not something people make up.
It's fairly standard, yeah.
It's standard, name, computer, country.
Don't forget that at symbol.
Yeah, don't forget the at symbol.
You can really mess things up quite a bit if you get it wrong.
If you get a single letter wrong, you'll go somewhere else, or not go anyplace at all.
But once you get used to that, you'll be amazed at what you can do, instantaneously send something
to somebody.
I mean, I've had correspondences with people improve when they got on the internet, better
than face-to-face communications on many occasions, because you're able to compose
letters and include things.
And send them files.
And it's instant.
But is there a way to register my name and my address so that no one else can use it?
Well, nobody else is going to have your particular username on the machine that you're using.
Somebody else might have that username on another machine, but that's not you.
That's on another machine.
So you will be guaranteed to be the only person with that unique address.
Oh, I see.
Thank you.
Okay.
Yeah, the internet is definitely gaining in popularity, and I hope to see it really swell
up in the next couple of years.
Good evening.
Yes, good evening.
Hi.
Just earlier, you mentioned the encryption program, PGP.
I first heard about this in Mondo 2000.
Where can I obtain a copy, and what is the story, briefly, about the government trying
to suppress this?
Well, do you have internet access?
Yeah.
Okay.
There's several FTP sites.
I don't have them at the top of my head.
Do you, Farber?
I don't recall off the top of my head.
I think that you might be able to pick it up on a site in Berkeley.
If you FTP to, I think, soda.berkeley.edu.
Okay.
Then log in anonymous.
Yeah, log in anonymous.
Password is your email address.
The most recent version is 2.1.
Yeah.
I have an old version.
Version 1, so I was looking for the new one.
Yeah, unfortunately, it's not compatible.
It's completely off of Fidonet.
As a matter of fact, people on Fidonet are arguing about whether they want to let people
use it or not.
Well, look, this is my advice to you.
You do it anyway, and if the people of Fidonet can't handle that, then don't use Fidonet
anymore.
They have no right to be telling people how to send messages, because the only reason,
Think about it.
The only reason somebody would object to using encryption would be if they want to read your
mail.
It's the only reason.
That's why the government is objecting to it, because they want to be able to see what
people are doing.
That's why system operators of some sorts don't like it, because they want to see what
people are doing.
But I think we've got the right to privacy.
I think we should expect the same privacy as when we send a piece of mail through the
real U.S. mail service.
We don't want somebody opening it up and reading it.
So are you saying that the government is involved with the copyright stuff that goes
on with PGP?
I know that in his copyright of the program, or in his information for the program, the
software author mentions that he does not have the copyright for the algorithm that's
used to run it, RSA or whatever.
So basically he's saying if you live in the United States, it's illegal to use this software.
Wink.
Well, I guess I could sum it up, basically, and that's whenever you encrypt a message
with PGP, pretty good privacy.
It encrypts the message with a public encryption algorithm known as IDEA, IDEA.
And the key for the IDEA encryption is then encrypted with RSA, and that's what you trade
with people, because it would take much too long to encrypt an entire message on an average
PC with RSA, because it's a fairly slow algorithm.
But technically that would still make it quote-unquote illegal to use.
Yeah, technically because the fact that the key to decrypt your message, the key itself
is encrypted with RSA, that RSA is pretty much an algorithm that's been copyrighted
by the three authors, Rivest, Shamir, and Adelman.
Does anybody else see the absurdity in copywriting an algorithm?
Well, I was thinking of copywriting two plus two myself.
I already did.
I already went down there and I did it earlier.
Or copywriting the alphabet.
Can you imagine if somebody got around to doing that?
Well, you know, this is people are copywriting the genetic code right now, so, hey, thanks
a lot.
Okay, good luck.
Yeah, you know, that's what annoys me when people say hackers have no regard for privacy.
I mean, for God's sake, we're trying to show people that you can protect yourself.
You can protect your data.
You know, I mean, I know people, lots of people actually, that routinely are harassed by system
operators because they don't like or they don't understand something that is in their
particular directory on a system.
And you have to wonder, what are they doing searching for things?
Why are they reading people's mail?
Why are they looking at people's files?
Why are they, you know, worried about this kind of thing?
If something happens to your system, you investigate it.
But if somebody is using a computer system, they have a right to privacy.
They have the right to get their mail and communicate with people and not have somebody
looking over their shoulders.
And that's really all we're after.
But it's not that simple.
And the biggest irony of all this is that hackers are able to manipulate the system
and get around in it.
And for some reason, we are looked upon as the ones that are invading people's privacy
when we're simply wandering around the machine that's wide open in the first place.
Good evening.
Hello?
Yes, go ahead.
Is this off the hook?
Yes, it is.
You're on the air.
I'd like to know if somebody told me that there's a phone system that you could call...
Yeah.
You better turn down your radio.
That's probably what's confusing you.
Yeah.
Okay.
There's a phone system you can call, yes.
And you could use it to, like, if you're calling a radio station to win a contest, you could
use it to, like, work as 13 different phones calling.
Is there such a system?
Work as 13 different...
I know that people have figured out a way to get around the number that's given out
over the air and get past that particular point and get to a real number and have an
advantage that way.
Sounds like what you're referring to, though, is a way of dialing 13 numbers at the same
time?
Yeah, kind of.
I don't know of such a system.
I mean, it's certainly possible.
If you have 13 phones...
Yeah, you need to have somehow access to 13 phones.
There's no one phone hookup to something that could...
I guess it would be kind of an interesting service to offer.
You call, say, a 900 number, and then you tell the 900 number, okay, call this number
13 times at the same time, and if the person with the 900 number has 13 lines, they could
do that and charge you a hefty fee for it, and you just might get through.
I don't know how they would be able to separate all those 13 lines.
Sounds to me like it would be a horrible mishmash of noise, especially if more than one of them
got through, but I'm sure entrepreneurs are thinking about that right now.
Also, do you know where they sell pocket-tone dialers with 33 memories?
Well, RadioShack was selling them last I checked, although so many people are modifying those
to become red boxes that they might be under pressure not to.
Just like with their pen registers, the FBI pressures them to stop selling those.
So anything's possible.
If they stop selling them, somebody else will, I guarantee it.
Okay.
Thanks for that.
Okay.
Thanks for calling.
We have time for one more call.
Yeah.
One more call.
Good evening.
Hi.
Go ahead.
Oh, hi.
This is Otharo.
What?
Am I on?
Yes.
Okay.
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Who ordered them there and under whose command?
Just why was the pre-Marine United Nations
deployment a failure?
And why did the UN accept Washington's conditions
for sending its own troops?
Will the US Marines confront Somali gunmen
and forcibly disarm them?
Why are the Marines being greeted with cheers?
And what happens when the cheering stops?
Hear daily special reports on WBAI's Somalia Watch
with Samori Marksman, Barbara Nimri-Aziz, Jim Dingman,
Dallas Galvin, Paul DiRienzo, Laura Flanders,
and myself, Phyllis Bennis.
Every night, 6.45, after the news.
Somalia Watch, WBAI 99.5 FM, New York.
300 Haitian refugees will spend the Christmas holidays
at the Guantanamo Naval Base in Cuba.
One refugee, Cilliers Success, was
allowed to leave Guantanamo only to be transferred
to an INS prison in Manhattan, where she remains incarcerated.
Join in a candlelight vigil and demonstration for her freedom
and for all those at Guantanamo, Thursday, December 24th,
that's Christmas Eve, beginning at 4.30 PM,
at the INS detention facility, 201 Verrick
Street, one block south of Houston.
Take the 109 train to Houston Stop.
Please bring candles.
Contact 212-781-5157.
That's 212-781-5157.
Good evening.
In the news tonight, AIDS, drug abuse, and tuberculosis
are posing a triple whammy to the nation's health.
The Hamas party, who are they?
How did they get so powerful?
And how do they fit into the big picture?
Are major advertising companies shortchanging minorities
in their ads?
And in New York, the city bends a fond farewell
to Mother Hale, who died last week.
With these and other stories, I'm Laura Seidel
with Verna Avery Brown in Washington.
And this is the news for Wednesday, December 23rd, 1992.
First, to Don Rush with these headline stories.
The first American official was killed in Operation Restore
Hope in Somalia.
He was a civilian who worked for the US Army.
In addition, three State Department security officers
were also injured.
The incident took place when a vehicle
hit a mine in the southern Somali town of Bardera.
State Department spokesman Richard Boucher.
The team was in the process of conducting a security
survey of the area related to the upcoming
arrivals of military and diplomatic personnel
in Bardera.
The wounded were transported to the USS Tripoli
by helicopter for medical treatment.
All three are currently described
as being in stable condition.
US military officials in Somalia said
they thought the area had been cleaned of all mines.
A second one was found, but the officials
added they did not know if these were old mines or newly laid.
The US said it did not expect the incident would have
any effect on future operations.
There are more reported deaths in the Israeli occupied
territories as tension grows over the fate of over 400
Palestinian deportees now languishing in Lebanon.
All of this comes as a suggestion
is raised in the Israeli cabinet that the government should
begin talks with the Palestine Liberation Organization.
With a roundup of events, Dawood Kutab
has this report from East Jerusalem.
Palestinian demonstrators clashed with Israeli troops,
resulting in the death of two Palestinians
and the injury of 10.
As the fate of the 415 expelled Palestinians
continue to be unknown, Israeli politicians
seem to be searching for a way out.
Leftist cabinet members are pushing the government
to open direct dialogue with the PLO
in order to upset the strong stand against the militant
Muslims.
Others are suggesting that Israel
might be willing to return the expelled Palestinians
if the Islamic Hezbollah party in Lebanon
would be willing to allow the release
of an Israeli navigator captured during the Lebanon war.
In addition to pressure from the world
community and the United Nations,
the European economic community has
suggested that they will not extend
preferential economic treatment to Israel
if the expelled Palestinians are not returned.
A special envoy of the UN Secretary General
is due to arrive in Israel in a couple of days.
Domestically, pressure is beginning to mount as well.
The Peace Now movement has called for a public rally
Saturday night in Tel Aviv to protest the expulsion.
For Pacifica Radio, this is Dawood Kutab
reporting from East Jerusalem.
In Detroit, a judge has ordered three white police officers
to stand trial in the fatal beating of a black motorist.
Charges against the fourth officer, who is African-American,
were dismissed.
Jerome Lee has more from Detroit.
Judge Alex Allen ruled that there was enough evidence
to bind over officers Larry Nevers and Walter Budson
on charges of second degree murder.
Officer Robert Lesnow will be tried for assault
with intent to commit great bodily harm.
Judge Allen threw out a charge of involuntary manslaughter
against Sergeant Freddy Douglas, saying
that the prosecution did not show
how Douglas's actions directly led to Green's death.
Outside the courtroom, Douglas was relieved and said
that his faith kept him going.
I never gave up faith.
And like I say, my pen says it all.
God is able.
I have the utmost confidence in God.
Douglas still faces a misdemeanor charge
of neglect of duty.
The arraignment of Budson, Nevers, and Lesnow
will take place in late January.
For Pacifica, this is Jerome Lee in Detroit.
Finally, gray wolves in Alaska got a break from authorities.
Wildlife and conservation groups got them
to back away from a wolf kill.
Doug Letch has more in this report.
Alaska Fish and Game Commissioner
Kyle Rozier announced that his department
will suspend all aerial wolf shooting in the state
this winter.
The announcement comes as a result of pressure
from animal rights activists in Alaska and the nation
to stop the state from killing 300 gray wolves by helicopter.
In response to the announcement, animal rights groups
have backed off on a call for tourist boycotts to Alaska.
It was those threats that earlier this month
prompted Governor Walter Hickle to call for a wolf
summit in Fairbanks next month to discuss
the controversial plan, which the Fish and Game
Department said is necessary to maintain proper levels of moose
and caribou.
The summit is still scheduled as planned.
In Negrat, Alaska, Doug Letch, Pacifica Radio News.
Those are the headlines.
And now to Verna Avery-Brown in Washington.
Staggering statistics about the impact of the AIDS virus
were underscored recently in a Washington Post editorial.
Former Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare
Joseph Califano Jr. points out that one out of every 100 men
in the US is HIV positive.
One out of every 800 women is affected with the virus.
AIDS, along with drug abuse and a steady rise
in a new resistant strain of tuberculosis,
is teaming up to pose a triple threat to the nation's health.
Califano calls it a three-headed dog from hell.
During a recent interview with Pacifica,
Califano points out needle sharing
is only part of the problem.
Well, I think we have to realize that the conventional culprit
for AIDS transmission is needles when you think
about substance abuse and drugs.
But far more ominous, if it gets less attention,
is the fact that teenagers, particularly,
who get high on beer or booze or pot or Coke
are more inclined to have sexual intercourse.
And they're more inclined to have sexual intercourse
without condoms.
And that is a tremendous transmitter
of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.
But you're citing statistics in your editorial
that say one out of every 100 men in the US is HIV infected.
That's not just teenagers, though.
No, that's not just teenagers.
And I mentioned the problem.
What we have, in my judgment, with the combination of AIDS,
substance abuse, and tuberculosis
is the most dangerous public health crisis
this nation has faced in its history.
And we're not addressing it.
People with AIDS, because of their weakened or people
who are HIV positive, because of their weakened immune system,
are more difficult to diagnose for tuberculosis.
People who are homeless are likely to be on drugs
or likely to be abusing alcohol.
They are much more vulnerable to AIDS and to tuberculosis.
Adult men and adult women who drink or who use pot
or who get high on Coke are just as likely as teenagers
to have sexual relations more casually
and without any condoms.
And therefore, much more likely to transmit AIDS or HIV.
Now, you've painted a pretty grim, grave picture
of the public health landscape with your editorial,
Three-Headed Dog from Hell, the American service.
Is it your feeling that people just
aren't getting it when it comes to this AIDS epidemic?
It's not just AIDS.
TB is a killer, too.
Drug abuse is a killer, too.
I think what people are not getting
is the fact that the AIDS epidemic and substance abuse
have really fueled the rise of TB in American cities.
And we now have a situation in which, by the end of next year,
we're going to spend $10 billion treating people
who are diagnosed HIV.
We spend, this year, at least $300 billion in this country
because of substance abuse.
And now, tuberculosis comes in.
It's a killer disease.
It's far more contagious than AIDS.
You can get TB by sitting next to somebody in a classroom
or in a movie theater.
And you can't get AIDS that way.
We have a real three-headed killer loose in this country,
and we're not focused on it.
And if we don't, we're going to pay a fearful price.
Eight or nine years ago, the Centers for Disease Control
in Atlanta asked Congress and the administration
for about $35 million because TB was beginning to sprout up
in American cities.
They didn't get that money.
This year, in the United States of America,
we will spend more than half a billion dollars
treating people with TB.
Now, we better face up to the problem we have,
or we're going to have thousands and thousands of people
dying not just of AIDS, but of tuberculosis as well
and of drug abuse.
Well, I'm glad you added drug abuse.
It sounds like this is a case of that old dog, drug abuse,
chickens coming home to roost.
That's a problem that's long been
ignored by the establishment.
But it also sounds like the problem
may perhaps be so far out of control
that drastic measures are going to be the only way
to get a handle on the epidemic before it wipes out
half the planet.
No, I don't think.
I mean, I think we have a terrible TB problem.
And I think we have a, you know, we have a,
it's been rising very rapidly in New York City.
The health department found 22% of the teenagers
in poor areas of three of the boroughs, Manhattan, Queens,
and Brooklyn, were infected with the TB germ.
We have higher rates of TB in our poorest communities
in this country than we have in sub-Saharan Africa.
And that says a terrible thing about the United States.
Substance abuse, alcohol abuse, and drug abuse,
and abuse of legal pills is, to my mind,
the top public health threat we have in this country.
I include in that, of course, nicotine addiction.
That's the top, the number one public health problem we have.
When you combine that with AIDS and tuberculosis
and the way substance abuse feeds AIDS and tuberculosis
in this country, you have a major,
major public health crisis.
I mean, you know, stop about, think about the fact
we have at least a million American,
about a million Americans who use heroin.
We have a couple of million that use cocaine regularly.
We have a half a million people on crack.
We have 18 million Americans who are hooked on alcohol.
We have about five and a half million Americans
who get high on marijuana a couple of times a week.
And we have another 11 million of our people
who are abusing tranquilizers like Librium and Valium
and other psychotropic drugs.
Now, that's millions of people who put themselves
and the rest of this population at risk.
Joseph Califano, Jr. is chairperson
of the Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse.
He served as Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare
under the Carter administration from 1977 to 1979.
A new research study at San Francisco General Hospital
gets underway in a few days.
It's the third trial of a procedure known as cell therapy,
a method whereby the patient's own cells
are used to fight AIDS-related tumors.
The idea is to promote the healing
of the body's immune system.
A total of 20 people will be tested.
Meanwhile, residents of the Castro District,
a largely gay community in San Francisco,
have adapted to the unique needs of people
facing the day-to-day struggles of living with AIDS and HIV.
A newly opened neighborhood pharmacy
is stocked to the hilt with AZT and other AIDS medications.
Computer modems and electronic pill dispensers
have been installed to cut down on the length of time
chronically ill patients will have to spend
having prescriptions filled.
Correspondent Lisa Godoldig reports
from the AIDS-friendly pharmacy.
You won't find cigarettes, alcohol, or greeting cards
at the Castro Village Pharmacy
in San Francisco's Castro District.
The wall behind the counter
of the country's first HIV specialty pharmacy
is lined with a large supply of AZT
and other AIDS medications.
An electronic pill dispenser,
a computerized hookup to the top AIDS doctors in town,
and a modem connected to insurance companies.
It's all designed to cut down on the hours
typically spent waiting for a prescription to be filled.
The drugstore opened one month ago
in San Francisco's largely gay neighborhood.
It intends to serve its clients
who are often fatigued from HIV or AIDS
quickly and inexpensively.
If you're sitting with your physician
and she writes you a script and wants to send it in to us,
we can have it processed to you and have it ready,
and you're still sitting with her.