1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,000
Hey, it's Bonnie White and you're listening to WBAI-FM, my kind of radio. Don't change that dial.

2
00:00:30,000 --> 00:01:00,000
I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cryin', I'm cry

3
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:07,580
I am the Eggman I am the Walrus

4
00:01:07,580 --> 00:01:09,580
Cuckoo, look at you

5
00:01:21,580 --> 00:01:27,580
Sitting in my English garden, waiting for the sun

6
00:01:27,580 --> 00:01:31,580
If you're so alone, come and get your tan

7
00:01:31,580 --> 00:01:34,580
I'm standing in the English Way

8
00:01:34,580 --> 00:01:37,580
I am the Eggman

9
00:01:37,580 --> 00:01:40,580
Yeah, I'm the Eggman

10
00:01:40,580 --> 00:01:42,580
I am the Walrus

11
00:01:42,580 --> 00:01:46,580
Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo

12
00:01:46,580 --> 00:01:49,580
Experts, experts, choking smokers

13
00:01:49,580 --> 00:01:54,580
Don't you think the joker laughs at you?

14
00:01:54,580 --> 00:01:56,580
See how they smile like pigs in the sky

15
00:01:56,580 --> 00:02:02,580
See how this night, I'm crying

16
00:02:02,580 --> 00:02:06,580
Siberian Pilcher

17
00:02:06,580 --> 00:02:10,580
Driving up the Eiffel Tower

18
00:02:10,580 --> 00:02:13,580
Go and let your demons sing in Holy Krishna

19
00:02:13,580 --> 00:02:17,580
And be sure to save the kids if you are my daughter

20
00:02:17,580 --> 00:02:20,580
I am the Eggman

21
00:02:20,580 --> 00:02:23,580
Yeah, I'm the Eggman

22
00:02:23,580 --> 00:02:25,580
I am the Walrus

23
00:02:25,580 --> 00:02:29,580
Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo

24
00:02:29,580 --> 00:02:32,580
Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo

25
00:02:54,580 --> 00:02:58,580
Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo

26
00:02:58,580 --> 00:03:02,580
Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo

27
00:03:02,580 --> 00:03:07,580
Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo

28
00:03:07,580 --> 00:03:12,580
Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo

29
00:03:12,580 --> 00:03:16,580
Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo

30
00:03:16,580 --> 00:03:20,580
Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo

31
00:03:21,580 --> 00:03:28,580
Peep, peep, peep, peep, peep

32
00:03:28,580 --> 00:03:36,580
Peep, peep, peep beak

33
00:03:36,580 --> 00:03:40,580
Peep, peep, peep

34
00:03:40,580 --> 00:03:44,580
Peep, peep, peep, peep

35
00:03:44,580 --> 00:03:46,580
This is listener sponsored radio

36
00:03:46,580 --> 00:03:51,580
WBAI broadcast at 99.5 FM in New York City.

37
00:03:52,580 --> 00:03:57,580
Tonight, beginning at midnight, hearings on Intro 475 will be heard.

38
00:03:57,580 --> 00:04:00,580
Last Monday, the General Welfare Committee of the City Council

39
00:04:00,580 --> 00:04:04,580
held the third and final day of open hearings on Intro 475,

40
00:04:04,580 --> 00:04:10,580
a bill which would outlaw discrimination against homosexuals in hiring and public accommodations.

41
00:04:10,580 --> 00:04:15,580
At midnight tonight, we'll broadcast the last four hours of the hearings.

42
00:04:15,580 --> 00:04:22,580
Listen to the hearings on Intro 475 tonight, beginning at midnight, here on WBAI.

43
00:04:25,580 --> 00:04:29,580
We're now running about 16 minutes behind schedule.

44
00:04:29,580 --> 00:04:36,580
In 1963, Eric Fromm delivered a series of three weekly lectures at the 92nd Street Y

45
00:04:36,580 --> 00:04:39,580
on the psychological roots of war and destruction.

46
00:04:39,580 --> 00:04:43,580
We're going to hear the first two lectures in the series next.

47
00:04:43,580 --> 00:04:47,580
The last three will be heard later on this afternoon at about 4.30.

48
00:04:47,580 --> 00:04:49,580
Here is the first lecture.

49
00:04:49,580 --> 00:04:56,580
The topic of this lecture is, the psychological, of these lectures,

50
00:04:56,580 --> 00:04:59,580
is the psychological roots of war and destructiveness.

51
00:04:59,580 --> 00:05:04,580
Hold on, hold on. Sorry folks, we accidentally wound up back in 1972.

52
00:05:04,580 --> 00:05:08,580
Fast forward, 2015, off the hook.

53
00:05:13,580 --> 00:05:18,580
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.

54
00:05:18,580 --> 00:05:23,580
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.

55
00:05:23,580 --> 00:05:28,580
We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.

56
00:05:28,580 --> 00:05:32,580
Bon dilly bon for the best, expect the worst.

57
00:05:32,580 --> 00:05:35,580
I hope that's understood. Bon dilly bon!

58
00:05:43,580 --> 00:05:46,580
And a very good evening to everybody. The program is Off the Hook.

59
00:05:46,580 --> 00:05:48,580
Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Mike.

60
00:05:48,580 --> 00:05:49,580
Good evening.

61
00:05:49,580 --> 00:05:50,580
Rob T. Firefly.

62
00:05:50,580 --> 00:05:51,580
Good evening.

63
00:05:51,580 --> 00:05:52,580
Kyle.

64
00:05:52,580 --> 00:05:53,580
Hola.

65
00:05:53,580 --> 00:05:54,580
And Bernie S.

66
00:05:54,580 --> 00:05:56,580
Greetings from Philadelphia.

67
00:05:56,580 --> 00:06:00,580
Okay, and just to explain a little bit what you heard just now,

68
00:06:00,580 --> 00:06:02,580
all kinds of chaos going on here.

69
00:06:02,580 --> 00:06:07,580
But Kyle, I think you and I can sort of explain what we just heard from 1972.

70
00:06:07,580 --> 00:06:10,580
That was actually a BAI recording from 1972.

71
00:06:10,580 --> 00:06:14,580
We used to announce, like a train, how late we are in our program

72
00:06:14,580 --> 00:06:16,580
because it always got out of schedule.

73
00:06:16,580 --> 00:06:19,580
I didn't even listen back then. I was just a kid, so I wasn't able to appreciate this.

74
00:06:19,580 --> 00:06:20,580
And it mattered.

75
00:06:20,580 --> 00:06:22,580
It did. What mattered?

76
00:06:22,580 --> 00:06:23,580
To be on time.

77
00:06:23,580 --> 00:06:26,580
Oh, to be on time. It usually does.

78
00:06:26,580 --> 00:06:31,580
But the interesting thing about all that was that it came off a reel-to-reel tape

79
00:06:31,580 --> 00:06:33,580
that we are encoding for a friend of ours.

80
00:06:33,580 --> 00:06:37,580
Basically, her dad made all these recordings of WBAI

81
00:06:37,580 --> 00:06:41,580
and other radio stations in New York, and it was about to be trashed.

82
00:06:41,580 --> 00:06:44,580
And we found ourselves a little reel-to-reel tape recorder, and we're encoding it.

83
00:06:44,580 --> 00:06:47,580
We're finding all kinds of gems like that.

84
00:06:47,580 --> 00:06:49,580
This is what WBAI has always been about.

85
00:06:49,580 --> 00:06:52,580
It's always been about broadcasting interesting topics.

86
00:06:52,580 --> 00:06:56,580
Maybe we don't do four hours of a lecture at midnight, but we could.

87
00:06:56,580 --> 00:07:04,580
And we've always been at the center of all the controversy and all the forward thinking.

88
00:07:04,580 --> 00:07:09,580
It's a cool time capsule to unearth these treasures of history

89
00:07:09,580 --> 00:07:13,580
and stuff that may not have been saved otherwise.

90
00:07:13,580 --> 00:07:19,580
It's also cool the recording method is a tape style that I wasn't familiar with.

91
00:07:19,580 --> 00:07:21,580
It was obviously a little bit before my time.

92
00:07:21,580 --> 00:07:25,580
I was familiar with tape decks and tape recorders like cassettes.

93
00:07:25,580 --> 00:07:29,580
But to be able to work with this and restore

94
00:07:30,580 --> 00:07:35,580
and then be able to manipulate it with a lot of new technology, too, to restore it,

95
00:07:35,580 --> 00:07:36,580
it's really cool.

96
00:07:36,580 --> 00:07:39,580
There was one that we were working on that you could barely hear anything.

97
00:07:39,580 --> 00:07:41,580
It was so faint.

98
00:07:41,580 --> 00:07:48,580
And then through the magic of a couple plug-ins and some restoration stuff,

99
00:07:48,580 --> 00:07:51,580
you could filter it and really hear this stuff

100
00:07:51,580 --> 00:07:54,580
and go back and try to figure out what the context was.

101
00:07:54,580 --> 00:07:56,580
Old technology meets new technology.

102
00:07:56,580 --> 00:08:01,580
And, yes, new technology was able to save this little bit of old history of reel-to-reel tape.

103
00:08:01,580 --> 00:08:06,580
And what you were mentioning before, yes, you can get four different channels on a single reel.

104
00:08:06,580 --> 00:08:10,580
So one of the small reels, not a big reel, a small reel, you could have four channels.

105
00:08:10,580 --> 00:08:13,580
And at the slowest speed, it could be three hours per channel.

106
00:08:13,580 --> 00:08:15,580
So you could get 12 hours on a small tape like that.

107
00:08:15,580 --> 00:08:16,580
It wouldn't sound very good.

108
00:08:16,580 --> 00:08:19,580
The speed we're working at is the slow speed, 3 3⁄4,

109
00:08:19,580 --> 00:08:21,580
and we get 90 minutes per channel, so about six hours.

110
00:08:21,580 --> 00:08:23,580
When you say small, you mean?

111
00:08:23,580 --> 00:08:25,580
I mean the size of your head.

112
00:08:25,580 --> 00:08:27,580
No, not that big.

113
00:08:27,580 --> 00:08:28,580
Let's see.

114
00:08:28,580 --> 00:08:29,580
What would you say?

115
00:08:29,580 --> 00:08:30,580
Seven-inch reel?

116
00:08:30,580 --> 00:08:31,580
It's a seven-inch reel.

117
00:08:31,580 --> 00:08:32,580
That's what it is, as opposed to a 10-inch reel.

118
00:08:32,580 --> 00:08:33,580
Right, right.

119
00:08:33,580 --> 00:08:37,580
It's like a small salad plate or a soup bowl.

120
00:08:37,580 --> 00:08:40,580
Well, some people eat big salads, so that wouldn't really help.

121
00:08:40,580 --> 00:08:42,580
Yeah, maybe a Frisbee.

122
00:08:42,580 --> 00:08:44,580
What are you saying about the size of my head?

123
00:08:44,580 --> 00:08:46,580
You know, we'll have to get back to that later.

124
00:08:46,580 --> 00:08:49,580
But Frisbees are also variable size.

125
00:08:49,580 --> 00:08:51,580
Well, disc golfing Frisbee, then.

126
00:08:51,580 --> 00:08:53,580
The size of a 2600 mousepad.

127
00:08:53,580 --> 00:08:54,580
How about that?

128
00:08:54,580 --> 00:08:57,580
If you pledged for our premium last week, you would know how big that was,

129
00:08:57,580 --> 00:08:58,580
because I was one of them.

130
00:08:58,580 --> 00:09:00,580
And we can get those?

131
00:09:00,580 --> 00:09:02,580
Wait, that's being offered tonight as well?

132
00:09:02,580 --> 00:09:03,580
I don't think so.

133
00:09:03,580 --> 00:09:05,580
I think that's part of the package that's sold out immediately.

134
00:09:05,580 --> 00:09:06,580
I hope so.

135
00:09:06,580 --> 00:09:07,580
Yeah.

136
00:09:07,580 --> 00:09:09,580
Well, you have one, so you can always look at it.

137
00:09:09,580 --> 00:09:11,580
Bernie, I know you've worked with reel-to-reel tapes.

138
00:09:11,580 --> 00:09:12,580
Have you not?

139
00:09:12,580 --> 00:09:14,580
I have several reel-to-reel decks.

140
00:09:14,580 --> 00:09:19,580
I like finding reels of tape that are in thrift stores and things

141
00:09:19,580 --> 00:09:24,580
that people have recorded at home, like a New Year's Eve party from 1958.

142
00:09:24,580 --> 00:09:26,580
Just weird stuff you find.

143
00:09:26,580 --> 00:09:28,580
And it's fun.

144
00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:31,580
Before that, I have some spools of wire.

145
00:09:31,580 --> 00:09:37,580
Stainless steel wire was used as a recording medium before magnetic tape.

146
00:09:37,580 --> 00:09:41,580
I've never understood how anybody figured that was going to work, but it did.

147
00:09:41,580 --> 00:09:42,580
It worked great.

148
00:09:42,580 --> 00:09:43,580
It worked great for many years.

149
00:09:43,580 --> 00:09:46,580
I mean, magnetic tape is basically the same thing.

150
00:09:46,580 --> 00:09:48,580
It's just a magnetic material.

151
00:09:48,580 --> 00:09:52,580
And I have a wire recorder, and I have a bunch of stainless steel reels.

152
00:09:52,580 --> 00:09:55,580
My father recorded back in the 40s.

153
00:09:55,580 --> 00:09:58,580
Do you have wire recordings?

154
00:09:58,580 --> 00:10:02,580
Yeah, some that he recorded when he was in college back in the 40s.

155
00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:03,580
Wow.

156
00:10:03,580 --> 00:10:06,580
Okay, yeah, you've got to bring one of those by, and we'll see if we can play it on the air.

157
00:10:06,580 --> 00:10:08,580
It's big and heavy.

158
00:10:08,580 --> 00:10:12,580
The hardest part with those stainless steel wire recordings is splicing them.

159
00:10:12,580 --> 00:10:16,580
You actually had to tie a knot in the stainless steel wire with a microscope,

160
00:10:16,580 --> 00:10:19,580
and it would always jam the machine.

161
00:10:19,580 --> 00:10:21,580
I'm sure you've spliced reel-to-reel tapes yourself.

162
00:10:21,580 --> 00:10:23,580
Oh, yeah.

163
00:10:23,580 --> 00:10:25,580
But try doing that with stainless steel wire.

164
00:10:25,580 --> 00:10:26,580
It's fun.

165
00:10:26,580 --> 00:10:28,580
Well, maybe I will.

166
00:10:28,580 --> 00:10:30,580
It sounds like a blast.

167
00:10:30,580 --> 00:10:33,580
Hey, you know, we weren't sure if we were on tonight.

168
00:10:33,580 --> 00:10:36,580
We didn't find out until the last minute that we were on,

169
00:10:36,580 --> 00:10:39,580
and then we found out at the last minute that some people thought we weren't on.

170
00:10:39,580 --> 00:10:43,580
So there were all kinds of confusion, but the crux of it is that we don't have premiums.

171
00:10:43,580 --> 00:10:45,580
We have generic premiums from the radio station.

172
00:10:45,580 --> 00:10:46,580
Actually, we might have a couple.

173
00:10:46,580 --> 00:10:48,580
Rob, do we have some leftovers?

174
00:10:48,580 --> 00:10:49,580
We do.

175
00:10:49,580 --> 00:10:54,580
We have some of our premiums from fundraisers past, which you can still get hold of.

176
00:10:54,580 --> 00:10:56,580
I can go through them.

177
00:10:56,580 --> 00:10:57,580
There are just a few.

178
00:10:57,580 --> 00:11:01,580
There are some more remaining, a limited amount,

179
00:11:01,580 --> 00:11:05,580
but some more remaining of the luminaries of the Hacker World paintings, which I will be doing.

180
00:11:05,580 --> 00:11:07,580
Why don't you describe what that is?

181
00:11:07,580 --> 00:11:13,580
That is a painting on a stretched canvas of a certain luminary from the Hacker World,

182
00:11:13,580 --> 00:11:17,580
somebody who's had an impact on the Hacker World as it stands today.

183
00:11:17,580 --> 00:11:21,580
I think the sorts of people we've named Hope Rooms after, people like Nikola Tesla,

184
00:11:21,580 --> 00:11:26,580
Grace Hopper, Ada Lovelace, all sorts of historical figures like that.

185
00:11:26,580 --> 00:11:30,580
And you can get a painting, a painted portrait that I will do of one of these people

186
00:11:30,580 --> 00:11:33,580
for a pledge of at least $50.

187
00:11:33,580 --> 00:11:41,580
And you can pledge by calling 212-209-2950 or by going to give2wbai.org,

188
00:11:41,580 --> 00:11:45,580
which I have some other news about, but I'll leave that until after I've gone through these.

189
00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:50,580
Also for a pledge of $50, if you're not into the painting, we have Teach Your Kids to Code,

190
00:11:50,580 --> 00:11:54,580
which is a parent-teacher's guide to teaching kids basic programming.

191
00:11:54,580 --> 00:12:00,580
We had the author of this book on, I think it was three weeks ago or two weeks ago,

192
00:12:00,580 --> 00:12:05,580
and it's a very interesting book, a very good piece of teaching material

193
00:12:05,580 --> 00:12:10,580
if you want to teach your child or learn with your child on how to code.

194
00:12:10,580 --> 00:12:12,580
Or just random children.

195
00:12:12,580 --> 00:12:13,580
Or just random children.

196
00:12:13,580 --> 00:12:15,580
Nieces, nephews, anyone.

197
00:12:15,580 --> 00:12:17,580
Well, you could teach anybody, really, couldn't you? It doesn't have to be a child.

198
00:12:17,580 --> 00:12:18,580
Yes, indeed.

199
00:12:18,580 --> 00:12:21,580
Well, I mean, it's called Teach Your Kid to Code, and adults can use it, too.

200
00:12:21,580 --> 00:12:23,580
Your kid could be 45 years old.

201
00:12:23,580 --> 00:12:25,580
It doesn't have to be your kid, either.

202
00:12:25,580 --> 00:12:27,580
Yeah, exactly. A lot of rules here in the title.

203
00:12:27,580 --> 00:12:30,580
For kids, kids at heart, and this is by Bryson Payne, who we spoke with.

204
00:12:30,580 --> 00:12:34,580
The whole point, I think, is definitely to ignore the rules in the title.

205
00:12:34,580 --> 00:12:37,580
Yeah, so teach whoever you damn well please to code. How about that?

206
00:12:37,580 --> 00:12:38,580
You can get that, actually.

207
00:12:38,580 --> 00:12:40,580
I misspoke. That's not for a pledge of $50.

208
00:12:40,580 --> 00:12:42,580
That's for a pledge of $55, Teach Your Kid to Code.

209
00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:44,580
And the $5 does make a difference.

210
00:12:44,580 --> 00:12:45,580
Yes, it does.

211
00:12:45,580 --> 00:12:48,580
Or for a pledge of $55, you can get a book called Beautiful Lego,

212
00:12:48,580 --> 00:12:53,580
which is a book full of projects that you can do with Lego.

213
00:12:53,580 --> 00:12:55,580
Mix hundreds of thousands of Lego bricks with dozens of artists,

214
00:12:55,580 --> 00:12:56,580
and what do you get?

215
00:12:56,580 --> 00:12:58,580
Beautiful Lego, a compendium of Lego artwork.

216
00:12:58,580 --> 00:12:59,580
Kind of redundant.

217
00:12:59,580 --> 00:13:02,580
If you say Lego, I mean, beautiful's already in there.

218
00:13:02,580 --> 00:13:03,580
Absolutely.

219
00:13:03,580 --> 00:13:06,580
And it is a beautiful book with some great Lego-based projects you can do.

220
00:13:06,580 --> 00:13:09,580
Or you could get both of those books, Teach Your Kids to Code and Beautiful Lego,

221
00:13:09,580 --> 00:13:12,580
for a contribution of at least $75.

222
00:13:12,580 --> 00:13:14,580
You can get the package of both books.

223
00:13:14,580 --> 00:13:18,580
Wait, two $55 pledges for $75?

224
00:13:18,580 --> 00:13:20,580
We're just terrible at counting here.

225
00:13:20,580 --> 00:13:24,580
But we've decided that $55 plus $55 equals $75.

226
00:13:24,580 --> 00:13:26,580
So you can get both of those books.

227
00:13:26,580 --> 00:13:30,580
And, yeah, give us a call at 212-209-2950

228
00:13:30,580 --> 00:13:34,580
and ask for the Teach Your Kids to Code and Beautiful Lego package,

229
00:13:34,580 --> 00:13:35,580
and you'll get both of the books.

230
00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:40,580
Or you could get Teach Your Kids to Code or Beautiful Lego for an individual pledge of $55.

231
00:13:40,580 --> 00:13:44,580
Or you could get Illuminaries of the Hacker World painting for a pledge of $50.

232
00:13:44,580 --> 00:13:49,580
And now in the past, when we've told you about the website where you can go to pledge for these things,

233
00:13:49,580 --> 00:13:53,580
the website was give the numeral to WBAI.org, and that's still the case.

234
00:13:53,580 --> 00:13:57,580
But we can also tell you now that because of the wonders of homophones

235
00:13:57,580 --> 00:14:00,580
and the way they work on the radio,

236
00:14:00,580 --> 00:14:05,580
some people were instead going to givetowbai.org and ending up at a completely different site,

237
00:14:05,580 --> 00:14:07,580
which was not one of ours.

238
00:14:07,580 --> 00:14:09,580
But now it's one of ours.

239
00:14:09,580 --> 00:14:15,580
If you go to givetowbai.org, you will be directed to the site where you could pledge to WBAI.

240
00:14:15,580 --> 00:14:18,580
And that's thanks to you that this happened, right?

241
00:14:18,580 --> 00:14:21,580
That is thanks to me, because I saw that whoever owned it last let it go.

242
00:14:21,580 --> 00:14:25,580
And so I grabbed it and redirected it, and it's all good now.

243
00:14:25,580 --> 00:14:29,580
And that means we won't say the numeral anymore when we give that address out.

244
00:14:29,580 --> 00:14:32,580
It will be implied that either work.

245
00:14:32,580 --> 00:14:39,580
Well, now my next question is what about givetwo, WBAI, and also give two, as in also WBAI.

246
00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:42,580
We have to get them all, you know?

247
00:14:42,580 --> 00:14:45,580
It sounds like an excellent project for you after the show.

248
00:14:45,580 --> 00:14:46,580
Yeah.

249
00:14:46,580 --> 00:14:47,580
Someone else can get the next one.

250
00:14:47,580 --> 00:14:48,580
I got this one.

251
00:14:48,580 --> 00:14:49,580
Yeah, I don't think I was going to spell that.

252
00:14:49,580 --> 00:14:51,580
But givetowbai.org, great.

253
00:14:51,580 --> 00:14:52,580
So you can pledge for that.

254
00:14:52,580 --> 00:14:57,580
And we should warn you that the premiums that Rob just described, we don't know how many are left.

255
00:14:57,580 --> 00:14:58,580
We just know that there are some left.

256
00:14:58,580 --> 00:15:02,580
So as last week proved, we can go through these awfully quickly,

257
00:15:02,580 --> 00:15:05,580
and we might be talking about something that is no longer available,

258
00:15:05,580 --> 00:15:08,580
because I can't see on the screen exactly how many are going.

259
00:15:08,580 --> 00:15:12,580
So I would suggest calling now, 212-209-2950.

260
00:15:12,580 --> 00:15:16,580
This is the last week of the fundraisers, so they won't be available at all after this week,

261
00:15:16,580 --> 00:15:18,580
regardless of if there are any left.

262
00:15:18,580 --> 00:15:24,580
And since we did not have the ability to prepare anything unique and different for this particular program,

263
00:15:25,580 --> 00:15:30,580
this is the best way that you can support us now, 212-209-2950.

264
00:15:30,580 --> 00:15:34,580
And all of those pledge levels would make you eligible to become a member,

265
00:15:34,580 --> 00:15:36,580
and they're all tax-deductible.

266
00:15:36,580 --> 00:15:38,580
Just thought I'd mention that.

267
00:15:38,580 --> 00:15:39,580
Yes, indeed.

268
00:15:39,580 --> 00:15:43,580
And if none of that stuff is interesting to you, you can still donate any amount you want.

269
00:15:43,580 --> 00:15:49,580
You can look on givetowbai.org and see some WBAI premiums that the station has.

270
00:15:49,580 --> 00:15:53,580
Just indicate that you're donating toward your favorite show, which we hope is off the hook.

271
00:15:53,580 --> 00:15:55,580
And it'll still count.

272
00:15:55,580 --> 00:16:00,580
So give us a call, 212-209-2950, or go to givetowbai.org.

273
00:16:00,580 --> 00:16:03,580
And join what's going on here.

274
00:16:03,580 --> 00:16:04,580
Support the station.

275
00:16:04,580 --> 00:16:06,580
Keep the show, the station, on the air.

276
00:16:06,580 --> 00:16:08,580
Anything from you, Bernie?

277
00:16:08,580 --> 00:16:09,580
Anything from me?

278
00:16:09,580 --> 00:16:10,580
Well, any comments?

279
00:16:10,580 --> 00:16:13,580
Because whenever I bring you up, you hear what happens to my voice.

280
00:16:13,580 --> 00:16:16,580
That's why you have to be kept down so my voice can sound better.

281
00:16:16,580 --> 00:16:18,580
Well, I have a comment.

282
00:16:18,580 --> 00:16:25,580
I would like to ask if any of you there can find out if you can call London from the studio.

283
00:16:25,580 --> 00:16:28,580
Because we'd like to bring in Alex, but that's the only way we can bring in Alex.

284
00:16:30,580 --> 00:16:35,580
Yeah, we don't know if we can look into it, but we will.

285
00:16:35,580 --> 00:16:37,580
Can you ask somebody if you can look into it?

286
00:16:37,580 --> 00:16:39,580
Wait, what are you asking us?

287
00:16:39,580 --> 00:16:41,580
Can you call London from the studio?

288
00:16:41,580 --> 00:16:45,580
You're asking us in the middle of a show if we can call London in the studio.

289
00:16:45,580 --> 00:16:48,580
If you want Alex in the show, you're going to have to find out.

290
00:16:48,580 --> 00:16:53,580
I'd like the Dalai Lama on the show, but I don't know if we can make this work while we're doing a show.

291
00:16:53,580 --> 00:16:56,580
I thought you guys were working that out amongst yourselves.

292
00:16:56,580 --> 00:16:57,580
We're working on it out.

293
00:16:57,580 --> 00:17:00,580
Something is not working, so I'm asking if one of you can find it.

294
00:17:00,580 --> 00:17:05,580
Okay, well, we're probably the worst people to ask because we're actually involved in doing a radio show right now.

295
00:17:05,580 --> 00:17:12,580
But I'm sure somebody out there may be hearing us pleading to them in the studio.

296
00:17:12,580 --> 00:17:14,580
Maybe they can figure out how to do that.

297
00:17:14,580 --> 00:17:19,580
I honestly think if we don't know how to call London at this point, we're not going to be calling London.

298
00:17:19,580 --> 00:17:22,580
And that's our colleague Alex, who is in London.

299
00:17:22,580 --> 00:17:24,580
Maybe he could call us.

300
00:17:24,580 --> 00:17:25,580
Is that possible?

301
00:17:25,580 --> 00:17:30,580
I have asked if I could call you, we could make this work, but I've been told that that's impossible.

302
00:17:30,580 --> 00:17:32,580
Okay, he can't call us.

303
00:17:32,580 --> 00:17:34,580
He cannot call us.

304
00:17:34,580 --> 00:17:35,580
What's our phone number?

305
00:17:35,580 --> 00:17:36,580
I don't even know.

306
00:17:36,580 --> 00:17:37,580
What's our phone number?

307
00:17:37,580 --> 00:17:38,580
We don't know our own phone number?

308
00:17:38,580 --> 00:17:39,580
Do you know our own phone number?

309
00:17:39,580 --> 00:17:42,580
Well, I can hang up and dial 958 and find out that way.

310
00:17:42,580 --> 00:17:43,580
Folks, that's another tip for you right there.

311
00:17:43,580 --> 00:17:46,580
Dial 958 in the New York area and you'll find out your phone number.

312
00:17:46,580 --> 00:17:49,580
I can do that and find out, but I have to disconnect Bernie to do it.

313
00:17:49,580 --> 00:17:52,580
I can't believe no one has figured out what the phone number is by now.

314
00:17:52,580 --> 00:17:55,580
Perhaps you can text me the number that Reggie gives you.

315
00:17:55,580 --> 00:17:57,580
Well, Reggie's not in here.

316
00:17:57,580 --> 00:18:01,580
Bernie, you know, these are conversations to have before the program, not during the program.

317
00:18:01,580 --> 00:18:04,580
Alex, if you're out there, you know what, text us on our cell phones.

318
00:18:04,580 --> 00:18:08,580
I'm sure one of us will be distracted enough to try and figure out a way to bring you on.

319
00:18:08,580 --> 00:18:09,580
And that'll be our mission.

320
00:18:09,580 --> 00:18:10,580
That'll be our mission.

321
00:18:10,580 --> 00:18:15,580
Let's get Alex on the air by the end of the hour without talking about it for the rest of the hour.

322
00:18:15,580 --> 00:18:16,580
All right.

323
00:18:16,580 --> 00:18:17,580
Freedom Act.

324
00:18:17,580 --> 00:18:18,580
The Freedom Act, this is what we should be talking about.

325
00:18:18,580 --> 00:18:20,580
The Freedom Act passed.

326
00:18:20,580 --> 00:18:21,580
What do you guys think about this?

327
00:18:21,580 --> 00:18:24,580
It's a very small step.

328
00:18:24,580 --> 00:18:26,580
I'm bordering on negligible, but the fact that—

329
00:18:26,580 --> 00:18:29,580
Aren't you glad they came up with another acronym that spells out ridiculous things?

330
00:18:29,580 --> 00:18:33,580
I was just going to skip right over the acronym because it's as stupid as all the acronyms.

331
00:18:33,580 --> 00:18:38,580
But the fact that even a very small step has happened means that it is the largest step

332
00:18:38,580 --> 00:18:40,580
in decades because it is the only step in decades.

333
00:18:40,580 --> 00:18:45,580
And it makes me just ever so slightly optimistic for more steps to come.

334
00:18:45,580 --> 00:18:47,580
Yeah, I suppose so.

335
00:18:47,580 --> 00:18:51,580
This might want to talk to Max, who might be able to help us with our problem.

336
00:18:51,580 --> 00:18:55,580
Maybe talk to him outside the studio so we don't hear all the technical details.

337
00:18:55,580 --> 00:18:56,580
Okay.

338
00:18:56,580 --> 00:19:00,580
So, Kyle, we were watching C-SPAN 2 on Sunday, and we were seeing all kinds of—

339
00:19:00,580 --> 00:19:01,580
We did, yeah.

340
00:19:01,580 --> 00:19:03,580
A lot of people were watching C-SPAN 2.

341
00:19:03,580 --> 00:19:09,580
We were watching the Patriot Act be criticized by at least one senator.

342
00:19:09,580 --> 00:19:15,580
What amazed me was how so many others were very afraid of saying anything

343
00:19:15,580 --> 00:19:18,580
that could be used against them at some point.

344
00:19:18,580 --> 00:19:21,580
And obviously what Rand Paul was doing was electioneering.

345
00:19:21,580 --> 00:19:23,580
This is great for his campaign.

346
00:19:23,580 --> 00:19:24,580
Absolutely.

347
00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:25,580
A lot of eyeballs.

348
00:19:25,580 --> 00:19:29,580
Definitely some airtime for free as politicians.

349
00:19:29,580 --> 00:19:35,580
And everybody knows in the electorate, too, that that's their aim is to get on TV

350
00:19:35,580 --> 00:19:38,580
and get people talking about them and what their position is.

351
00:19:38,580 --> 00:19:39,580
Yes.

352
00:19:39,580 --> 00:19:44,580
And so we wind up with something that—

353
00:19:44,580 --> 00:19:48,580
You know, tell me—I'm being paranoid here,

354
00:19:48,580 --> 00:19:50,580
but I don't think we really got all that much out of this.

355
00:19:50,580 --> 00:19:55,580
I think basically we've switched who is gathering the metadata

356
00:19:55,580 --> 00:19:58,580
and added a small step, which I don't think is really a step at all

357
00:19:58,580 --> 00:20:00,580
because I think they're all in bed together anyway.

358
00:20:00,580 --> 00:20:06,580
And I think probably the people that really want surveillance to remain

359
00:20:06,580 --> 00:20:09,580
are just as happy this way as any other way.

360
00:20:09,580 --> 00:20:11,580
It was all just a big circus show.

361
00:20:11,580 --> 00:20:12,580
Am I being paranoid?

362
00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:17,580
Well, Obama, chief among them, he says he's excited for this act,

363
00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:21,580
so it's a pretty good sign that the amount of surveillance is not going to go down a whole lot.

364
00:20:21,580 --> 00:20:24,580
Yeah, yeah, but Republicans are angry, but then they're always angry,

365
00:20:24,580 --> 00:20:28,580
so I don't know if that's a good measurement as to whether or not this is a good thing.

366
00:20:28,580 --> 00:20:32,580
Yeah, I mean, the NSA itself is not too upset about this,

367
00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:34,580
which should give you a sign as to how much it'll do.

368
00:20:34,580 --> 00:20:38,580
But there are Republicans in the Congress who want to give the surveillance state

369
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:43,580
more than even the surveillance state itself demands, and they're upset.

370
00:20:43,580 --> 00:20:47,580
Well, okay, maybe somebody can explain this who has more knowledge of the phone companies.

371
00:20:47,580 --> 00:20:52,580
But my understanding is that the Freedom Act basically mandates

372
00:20:52,580 --> 00:20:57,580
that the phone companies keep the metadata and that they give it up to the government

373
00:20:57,580 --> 00:21:01,580
when they're presented with a warrant, which is a unique and novel idea,

374
00:21:01,580 --> 00:21:03,580
getting a warrant to actually get this information,

375
00:21:03,580 --> 00:21:06,580
but the government's learning how the process works.

376
00:21:06,580 --> 00:21:11,580
But my question is, isn't metadata something that phone companies hold on to by default?

377
00:21:11,580 --> 00:21:15,580
Metadata is basically what we're talking about, phone calls.

378
00:21:15,580 --> 00:21:18,580
If you make a phone call, they keep records of who you called.

379
00:21:18,580 --> 00:21:21,580
They even keep records of your text messages, from what I understand.

380
00:21:21,580 --> 00:21:25,580
And that can be used for different purposes, some of it good, some of it bad.

381
00:21:25,580 --> 00:21:31,580
But you're using their network, so they basically can keep anything that goes over that network.

382
00:21:31,580 --> 00:21:33,580
Is that a correct assessment?

383
00:21:33,580 --> 00:21:39,580
Yeah, I mean, so this term metadata is a real special term because it's data.

384
00:21:39,580 --> 00:21:41,580
It's just a form of data.

385
00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:44,580
It is not the contents of what you say on the telephone.

386
00:21:44,580 --> 00:21:49,580
So we're talking on the phone to Bernie, I think, and our conversation is not part of that.

387
00:21:49,580 --> 00:21:55,580
But the fact that we call him at precisely this time every week and all that kind of stuff,

388
00:21:55,580 --> 00:21:59,580
if we're using a cell phone, the location of the call, if he's using a cell phone, the location of him,

389
00:21:59,580 --> 00:22:04,580
all this stuff is the sort of data that is actually most dangerous

390
00:22:04,580 --> 00:22:08,580
because it is the easiest to analyze in bulk, and that is all called metadata.

391
00:22:08,580 --> 00:22:13,580
And so, therefore, they pretend like it's not an invasion of privacy to collect it.

392
00:22:13,580 --> 00:22:17,580
Yeah, it's all the data surrounding a phone call, which is when the phone call takes place,

393
00:22:17,580 --> 00:22:22,580
how long the phone call lasts, who's calling who, who calls who with what frequency.

394
00:22:22,580 --> 00:22:26,580
So, yeah, it's all the pieces of information attached to a phone call

395
00:22:26,580 --> 00:22:29,580
except the content of the conversation that's happening.

396
00:22:29,580 --> 00:22:33,580
And metadata, as we've talked about in the past, is very powerful data.

397
00:22:33,580 --> 00:22:37,580
You load it up into a database and you can quickly cross-reference who's calling who,

398
00:22:37,580 --> 00:22:40,580
who's associated with who, who's a friend of a friend of who,

399
00:22:40,580 --> 00:22:44,580
who's spending significant amounts of time on the phone with who.

400
00:22:44,580 --> 00:22:46,580
But the phone company has that information already.

401
00:22:46,580 --> 00:22:47,580
They need that information to bill you.

402
00:22:47,580 --> 00:22:50,580
Maybe not where you're standing, what cell tower you're using,

403
00:22:50,580 --> 00:22:53,580
but for technical purposes, they need that information.

404
00:22:53,580 --> 00:22:57,580
The issue is now sharing that information with authorities.

405
00:22:57,580 --> 00:23:00,580
Yes, they've always kept hold of that information just so they could write up the phone bills,

406
00:23:00,580 --> 00:23:03,580
which is reasonable, but on the other half of it,

407
00:23:03,580 --> 00:23:08,580
they're basically opening up access to this data to the powers that be

408
00:23:08,580 --> 00:23:14,580
without any sort of oversight or due diligence.

409
00:23:15,580 --> 00:23:16,580
I'm curious.

410
00:23:16,580 --> 00:23:21,580
This strikes me just the way it is presented in the Freedom Act.

411
00:23:21,580 --> 00:23:25,580
The distinction is a bit more aligned with what we've seen.

412
00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:29,580
And correct me if I'm wrong, the policies of data retention in Europe,

413
00:23:29,580 --> 00:23:34,580
is that kind of it where an institution or a corporation is required to keep

414
00:23:34,580 --> 00:23:38,580
a certain amount of information with their networks for a certain time?

415
00:23:38,580 --> 00:23:42,580
And it was a contentious issue at the time.

416
00:23:42,580 --> 00:23:49,580
And the way they handle that is that the information is handled for only a certain period of time.

417
00:23:49,580 --> 00:23:57,580
And then after that, those kinds of logs and daily operational databases are then kind of purged

418
00:23:57,580 --> 00:24:01,580
or they're not available after a certain date.

419
00:24:01,580 --> 00:24:07,580
And I'm curious if the Freedom Active companies are going to be, since they're responsible,

420
00:24:07,580 --> 00:24:11,580
are they going to be running their systems in similar ways?

421
00:24:11,580 --> 00:24:16,580
Or what are the similarities and distinctions there if this is indeed falling back into

422
00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:18,580
private companies' hands?

423
00:24:18,580 --> 00:24:24,580
But it was also part of the rhetoric I noticed when we were watching the debate,

424
00:24:24,580 --> 00:24:30,580
just that the definition of metadata and the way it was being described was very,

425
00:24:30,580 --> 00:24:33,580
that's it, it's just what's on your phone bill.

426
00:24:33,580 --> 00:24:36,580
I heard that a lot in some of the discussions.

427
00:24:36,580 --> 00:24:40,580
And I think it's really important for everyone to understand and to communicate to one another

428
00:24:40,580 --> 00:24:54,580
that it is not that the information itself can be used or is used in a vacuum or innocently.

429
00:24:54,580 --> 00:24:58,580
It is being used with a really vast array of other techniques and information,

430
00:24:58,580 --> 00:25:01,580
stuff we know about here on this show.

431
00:25:01,580 --> 00:25:07,580
I think we've heard about in the Privacy is Dead series, those talks at HOPE, and so on and so forth.

432
00:25:07,580 --> 00:25:12,580
So it was sort of funny to watch that and be like, yeah, yeah, that's part of it.

433
00:25:12,580 --> 00:25:19,580
But it's not that you're just having long lists of what looks like a phone bill of everybody everywhere,

434
00:25:19,580 --> 00:25:22,580
and that's all you're doing is evaluating that.

435
00:25:22,580 --> 00:25:27,580
That's not, it sounds nice and innocent and very limited, or you might want it to sound that way,

436
00:25:27,580 --> 00:25:32,580
but it is certainly not how institutions and governments are using it.

437
00:25:32,580 --> 00:25:36,580
Bernie, I know you wanted to step up here.

438
00:25:37,580 --> 00:25:39,580
Bernie?

439
00:25:39,580 --> 00:25:42,580
Okay, I heard him talking.

440
00:25:42,580 --> 00:25:45,580
All right, Bernie's no longer with us.

441
00:25:45,580 --> 00:25:47,580
I'm sorry, did you have something, Mike?

442
00:25:47,580 --> 00:25:51,580
No, I was just going to say I think we lost Bernie, which seems like we did.

443
00:25:51,580 --> 00:25:52,580
All right.

444
00:25:52,580 --> 00:25:55,580
Well, I'll keep him halfway up in case he comes back to the phone.

445
00:25:55,580 --> 00:26:00,580
I'll remind our listeners that we're actually in our third week here, fourth week.

446
00:26:00,580 --> 00:26:01,580
I've lost track.

447
00:26:01,580 --> 00:26:02,580
I've lost track.

448
00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:03,580
I think it's more than one hand.

449
00:26:03,580 --> 00:26:04,580
Oh, Bernie's back.

450
00:26:04,580 --> 00:26:05,580
There's Bernie.

451
00:26:05,580 --> 00:26:07,580
What's on the Freedom Act and what we've been talking about?

452
00:26:07,580 --> 00:26:09,580
I'd like to bring Alex's thoughts on this, too.

453
00:26:09,580 --> 00:26:10,580
Can you call me back?

454
00:26:10,580 --> 00:26:11,580
Oh, boy, here we go again.

455
00:26:11,580 --> 00:26:15,580
Then I can call Alex and we can patch us through.

456
00:26:15,580 --> 00:26:18,580
It's just how the telecom system works here that we're dealing with.

457
00:26:18,580 --> 00:26:20,580
Okay, you want us to call you back?

458
00:26:20,580 --> 00:26:21,580
Right.

459
00:26:21,580 --> 00:26:23,580
Can you call me back in five minutes?

460
00:26:23,580 --> 00:26:26,580
I'll see if I'm busy at the time, and I'll try to do that.

461
00:26:26,580 --> 00:26:29,580
Did you want to say anything about the Freedom Act since we're on the radio?

462
00:26:29,580 --> 00:26:32,580
Yeah, I don't think it provides us with any more freedom than we had.

463
00:26:32,580 --> 00:26:37,580
I think it provides us with exactly the amount of telephone privacy freedom as we had before,

464
00:26:37,580 --> 00:26:38,580
which is effectively zero.

465
00:26:38,580 --> 00:26:44,580
This is just a shell game, and it makes it look like we have more security and safety.

466
00:26:44,580 --> 00:26:46,580
It's no different.

467
00:26:46,580 --> 00:26:49,580
If the NSA has access to the phone company's records, it's no different than having access

468
00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:51,580
to the data anyway.

469
00:26:51,580 --> 00:26:52,580
Okay.

470
00:26:52,580 --> 00:26:57,580
Well, we're going to call you back in five minutes, and hopefully you'll have a connection

471
00:26:57,580 --> 00:27:01,580
to London somehow, and we'll talk about some other stories in the interim.

472
00:27:02,580 --> 00:27:05,580
And that is a way it's been discussed.

473
00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:12,580
That's come up quite a bit, that this is operationally not going to be a lot different.

474
00:27:12,580 --> 00:27:23,580
The same kinds of accusations, situations where there isn't probable cause, abuses.

475
00:27:23,580 --> 00:27:25,580
These kinds of things will crop up.

476
00:27:25,580 --> 00:27:26,580
They'll continue.

477
00:27:26,580 --> 00:27:34,580
And so it is important now more than ever for us to go through what is now being run out

478
00:27:34,580 --> 00:27:41,580
as this USA Freedom Act, the horrible acronym that we described, the dragnet, eavesdropping,

479
00:27:41,580 --> 00:27:42,580
whatever act.

480
00:27:42,580 --> 00:27:46,580
That actually has to be really seriously looked at.

481
00:27:46,580 --> 00:27:54,580
And I think the vigilance from a perspective of people who use the internet and telephones

482
00:27:54,580 --> 00:28:02,580
and are interested in their privacy, their right to privacy, it's on us, I think, more

483
00:28:02,580 --> 00:28:09,580
than ever, is what I'm saying, to really double down on the efforts to find better ways of

484
00:28:09,580 --> 00:28:13,580
handling this stuff in a, quote, dangerous world.

485
00:28:13,580 --> 00:28:18,580
Well, I guess what I'd like to conclude with, should we be happy by this, or should we just

486
00:28:18,580 --> 00:28:19,580
be kind of glum?

487
00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:23,580
I mean, I think it is a small bit of good news.

488
00:28:23,580 --> 00:28:27,580
And the thing that we will see that we have to remain vigilant for in the future is, is

489
00:28:27,580 --> 00:28:33,580
this the beginning of the pendulum swinging back towards reducing the size of the security

490
00:28:33,580 --> 00:28:34,580
apparatus?

491
00:28:34,580 --> 00:28:37,580
Or is this just one tiny little setback for them, and they're just going to keep growing

492
00:28:37,580 --> 00:28:40,580
and growing and growing more or less as planned?

493
00:28:40,580 --> 00:28:44,580
And that's really up to us if we keep attention on this sort of issue.

494
00:28:44,580 --> 00:28:45,580
Yeah.

495
00:28:45,580 --> 00:28:46,580
Well, it is up to us.

496
00:28:46,580 --> 00:28:47,580
You're right about that.

497
00:28:47,580 --> 00:28:48,580
And it definitely will keep growing.

498
00:28:48,580 --> 00:28:50,580
Because they're not just going to give up.

499
00:28:50,580 --> 00:28:53,580
They could get a resounding condemnation.

500
00:28:53,580 --> 00:28:56,580
They could have everybody in the NSA sent to prison.

501
00:28:56,580 --> 00:28:58,580
They're still going to keep trying to do this.

502
00:28:58,580 --> 00:29:01,580
I didn't see a big abandonment of encryption overnight.

503
00:29:01,580 --> 00:29:02,580
No.

504
00:29:02,580 --> 00:29:03,580
No.

505
00:29:03,580 --> 00:29:10,580
And the few comments by members of Congress other than Rand Paul were so timid.

506
00:29:10,580 --> 00:29:15,580
There was one senator, a Democrat that I couldn't, I forget who, he might have been from New

507
00:29:15,580 --> 00:29:17,580
Mexico or somewhere out there.

508
00:29:17,580 --> 00:29:22,580
And he basically just said, yeah, Edward Snowden stole all these documents, basically condemning

509
00:29:22,580 --> 00:29:26,580
Edward Snowden, but agreeing with everything that he was concerned with without giving

510
00:29:26,580 --> 00:29:31,580
him a bit of credit, saying that, yeah, we would have done this ourselves had we not

511
00:29:31,580 --> 00:29:34,580
been sidetracked by the truth coming out and all that.

512
00:29:34,580 --> 00:29:35,580
Who is going to believe that?

513
00:29:35,580 --> 00:29:39,580
Is anyone actually going to believe that the Senate or the House of Representatives was

514
00:29:39,580 --> 00:29:43,580
going to do something about mass surveillance, was going to uncover it, first of all, and

515
00:29:43,580 --> 00:29:44,580
then do something about it?

516
00:29:44,580 --> 00:29:46,580
I really don't think so.

517
00:29:46,580 --> 00:29:50,580
I just like that they were actually acknowledging that this is an issue that exists.

518
00:29:50,580 --> 00:29:54,580
And the conversation was happening at all in the first place, which I think is an improvement

519
00:29:54,580 --> 00:29:57,580
from how things have been for a very long time, possibly at any point over the last

520
00:29:57,580 --> 00:29:58,580
14 years.

521
00:29:58,580 --> 00:30:02,580
And that conversation was happening because of Edward Snowden, by the way, our keynote

522
00:30:02,580 --> 00:30:04,580
speaker at Hope.

523
00:30:04,580 --> 00:30:09,580
And he's happy about, obviously, the way the conversation is now going.

524
00:30:09,580 --> 00:30:13,580
There is a story that came out this week saying that becoming an international fugitive was

525
00:30:13,580 --> 00:30:15,580
worth it, he said.

526
00:30:15,580 --> 00:30:16,580
That's according to the headline, anyway.

527
00:30:16,580 --> 00:30:18,580
Who knows how true that actually is?

528
00:30:18,580 --> 00:30:19,580
But I can see that point.

529
00:30:19,580 --> 00:30:23,580
I can see the point of view where you sacrifice your life, basically.

530
00:30:23,580 --> 00:30:27,580
You sacrifice everything you have in this country and you have to live as a fugitive.

531
00:30:27,580 --> 00:30:28,580
Was it worth it?

532
00:30:28,580 --> 00:30:33,580
And for where we are now, for the conversations we're having, for the awareness amongst the

533
00:30:33,580 --> 00:30:38,580
commenters like us, I would say, yeah, because you have people sacrificing their lives every

534
00:30:38,580 --> 00:30:42,580
day for lesser causes, willingly, and being honored as heroes.

535
00:30:42,580 --> 00:30:44,580
So I think it's about time we did the same for him.

536
00:30:44,580 --> 00:30:46,580
I mean, he's not dead yet.

537
00:30:46,580 --> 00:30:47,580
No.

538
00:30:47,580 --> 00:30:48,580
And he's not dead yet, too.

539
00:30:48,580 --> 00:30:49,580
That's the other plus.

540
00:30:49,580 --> 00:30:53,580
Russia is not my first choice of countries to live in, but it's a lot better than a jail

541
00:30:53,580 --> 00:30:54,580
cell in the US.

542
00:30:54,580 --> 00:30:55,580
He's doing okay.

543
00:30:55,580 --> 00:30:56,580
Have you lived in Russia?

544
00:30:56,580 --> 00:30:57,580
No.

545
00:30:57,580 --> 00:30:58,580
Have you lived in a jail cell?

546
00:30:58,580 --> 00:30:59,580
No.

547
00:30:59,580 --> 00:31:00,580
All right.

548
00:31:00,580 --> 00:31:01,580
Well, you should try a little bit of both, and I'll bet you'll like Russia a whole lot

549
00:31:01,580 --> 00:31:02,580
more.

550
00:31:02,580 --> 00:31:03,580
That's precisely my point.

551
00:31:03,580 --> 00:31:04,580
Okay.

552
00:31:04,580 --> 00:31:05,580
Well, I'm just underlining that point.

553
00:31:05,580 --> 00:31:06,580
And it's also a lot bigger than a jail cell.

554
00:31:06,580 --> 00:31:08,580
That is very true.

555
00:31:08,580 --> 00:31:09,580
Yeah.

556
00:31:10,580 --> 00:31:11,580
Okay.

557
00:31:11,580 --> 00:31:15,580
And that's pretty much it as far as this kind of thing goes.

558
00:31:15,580 --> 00:31:19,580
A quick statement from the EFF, our friends over there.

559
00:31:19,580 --> 00:31:22,580
Basically, you should trust what they say, their interpretation on this.

560
00:31:22,580 --> 00:31:26,580
They're the ones that have been fighting for many years to preserve our freedoms.

561
00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:33,580
The Senate passed the USA Freedom Act, 67 to 32, marking the first time in over 30 years

562
00:31:33,580 --> 00:31:38,580
that both houses of Congress have approved a bill placing real restrictions and oversight

563
00:31:38,580 --> 00:31:40,580
on the NSA's surveillance powers.

564
00:31:40,580 --> 00:31:44,580
The weakening amendments to the legislation proposed by NSA defender, Senate Majority

565
00:31:44,580 --> 00:31:48,580
Mitch McConnell, were defeated, and we have every reason to believe that President Obama

566
00:31:48,580 --> 00:31:50,580
will sign USA Freedom into law.

567
00:31:50,580 --> 00:31:52,580
Technology users everywhere should celebrate.

568
00:31:52,580 --> 00:31:53,580
There, okay.

569
00:31:53,580 --> 00:31:54,580
We should celebrate.

570
00:31:54,580 --> 00:31:55,580
Now we know.

571
00:31:55,580 --> 00:31:59,580
Knowing that the NSA will be a little more hampered in its surveillance overreach, and

572
00:31:59,580 --> 00:32:04,580
both the NSA and the FISA court will be more transparent and accountable than it was before

573
00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:07,580
the USA Freedom Act.

574
00:32:07,580 --> 00:32:09,580
It's no secret that we wanted more.

575
00:32:09,580 --> 00:32:13,580
In the wake of the damning evidence of surveillance abuses disclosed by Edward Snowden, Congress

576
00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:17,580
had an opportunity to champion comprehensive surveillance reform and undertake a thorough

577
00:32:17,580 --> 00:32:20,580
investigation like it did with the Church Committee.

578
00:32:20,580 --> 00:32:24,580
Congress could have tried to completely end mass surveillance and taken numerous other

579
00:32:24,580 --> 00:32:29,580
steps to rein in the NSA and FBI, but of course we know that will never happen.

580
00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:31,580
So yeah, I feel this way.

581
00:32:31,580 --> 00:32:35,580
We should celebrate, but know that there's a lot of work ahead of us.

582
00:32:36,580 --> 00:32:39,580
Yeah, that's super hard, all that extra stuff.

583
00:32:39,580 --> 00:32:40,580
Yeah.

584
00:32:40,580 --> 00:32:42,580
But hey, we have freedom, right?

585
00:32:42,580 --> 00:32:44,580
That's what I hear, yes.

586
00:32:44,580 --> 00:32:49,580
Now I'm going to try and stumble through this phone call to Bernie now, if you guys can

587
00:32:49,580 --> 00:32:52,580
maybe, you know, I have nothing else to do but make a phone call right now.

588
00:32:52,580 --> 00:32:57,580
Okay, well, while you're doing that, I'll remind our listeners that we are in the process

589
00:32:57,580 --> 00:33:01,580
of wrapping up this fundraiser, and yet we still need to raise funds.

590
00:33:01,580 --> 00:33:08,580
So if you call 212-209-2950, or if you go to give2wbai.org, you can get hold of some

591
00:33:08,580 --> 00:33:12,580
premiums that we've got that we've got left over from past weeks.

592
00:33:12,580 --> 00:33:15,580
For a pledge of at least $50, you can get the Luminaries of the Hacker World painting,

593
00:33:15,580 --> 00:33:16,580
which I will do.

594
00:33:16,580 --> 00:33:19,580
It's an actual physical painting, not a copy, not a print or anything like that.

595
00:33:19,580 --> 00:33:24,580
You will be getting an actual original painting of a figure from hacker history.

596
00:33:24,580 --> 00:33:26,580
And that's for a pledge of at least $50.

597
00:33:27,580 --> 00:33:31,580
For a pledge of $55, you can get the Teach Your Kids to Code book, or you could get the

598
00:33:31,580 --> 00:33:35,580
beautiful Lego book, either of those books for a pledge of $55, or both of those books

599
00:33:35,580 --> 00:33:38,580
for a pledge of at least $75.

600
00:33:38,580 --> 00:33:40,580
Or you can pledge any amount you wish.

601
00:33:40,580 --> 00:33:43,580
There are some other premiums available that WBAI has.

602
00:33:43,580 --> 00:33:47,580
Just specify that you're pledging toward your favorite show, which we hope is off the hook.

603
00:33:47,580 --> 00:33:50,580
And you'll be part of what keeps the station going.

604
00:33:50,580 --> 00:33:53,580
A pledge of at least $25 gets you a membership in BAI.

605
00:33:53,580 --> 00:33:58,580
You get a say in what goes on and how things go forward from here.

606
00:33:58,580 --> 00:34:02,580
And all sorts of other perks and things that there are to membership.

607
00:34:02,580 --> 00:34:08,580
You can get more information on that by calling 212-209-2950 or going to give2wbai.org.

608
00:34:08,580 --> 00:34:10,580
But you know what the best thing is?

609
00:34:10,580 --> 00:34:15,580
The best thing is that you keep 99.5 FM commercial-free, as it has been since 1960.

610
00:34:15,580 --> 00:34:19,580
We played a tape only a few minutes ago from 1972.

611
00:34:20,580 --> 00:34:23,580
The station has been, and this is going to sound weird,

612
00:34:23,580 --> 00:34:27,580
it's been the most consistent voice on the radio dial in New York City.

613
00:34:27,580 --> 00:34:31,580
Now, you might think we're all crackpots and out of our minds,

614
00:34:31,580 --> 00:34:33,580
doing all kinds of bizarre things on the radio.

615
00:34:33,580 --> 00:34:36,580
But guess what? That is the kind of radio that survives.

616
00:34:36,580 --> 00:34:40,580
Everything else is subject to the whims of the corporate executives,

617
00:34:40,580 --> 00:34:45,580
and the marketplace, and record sales, and stock markets, and everything you can imagine

618
00:34:45,580 --> 00:34:47,580
that has nothing to do with radio.

619
00:34:47,580 --> 00:34:52,580
Every other station, pretty much, if you go down the frequency, has radically changed.

620
00:34:52,580 --> 00:34:57,580
Gone to different owners, gone to different frequencies sometimes, changed their format,

621
00:34:57,580 --> 00:35:02,580
and mostly without any regard to the actual people who listen to that station.

622
00:35:02,580 --> 00:35:04,580
WBAI is different.

623
00:35:04,580 --> 00:35:08,580
We have basically had our listeners involved from the start.

624
00:35:08,580 --> 00:35:11,580
We've had a huge variety of programming.

625
00:35:11,580 --> 00:35:16,580
I wish that there were tapes, like the kind Kyle and I have access to,

626
00:35:16,580 --> 00:35:19,580
from all the years that WBAI has been on the air.

627
00:35:19,580 --> 00:35:22,580
Imagine getting a real trio tape from the 60s.

628
00:35:22,580 --> 00:35:24,580
Those kinds of things we could preserve, we could save,

629
00:35:24,580 --> 00:35:26,580
so that people, and people do listen to these things online.

630
00:35:26,580 --> 00:35:30,580
If you put it online, people will learn from it.

631
00:35:30,580 --> 00:35:33,580
We put our old shows up, and people love listening to it.

632
00:35:33,580 --> 00:35:37,580
We get letters, you know, you said this in February 1998, and I really disagree.

633
00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:39,580
They want to have an argument about something that we said that long ago.

634
00:35:39,580 --> 00:35:45,580
Here we just played a show from 43 years ago, or part of it anyway,

635
00:35:45,580 --> 00:35:49,580
and it sounded like something that was still interesting to this day.

636
00:35:49,580 --> 00:35:52,580
So I think WBAI will always be relevant.

637
00:35:52,580 --> 00:35:55,580
The question is, can we afford to stay here on the air?

638
00:35:55,580 --> 00:35:57,580
It's expensive, but that's where you come in.

639
00:35:57,580 --> 00:36:02,580
212-209-2950, pledge whatever you can afford for whatever premium you wish.

640
00:36:02,580 --> 00:36:05,580
But remember, the big premium is WBAI itself.

641
00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:09,580
I mean, we should stress that it's not a coincidence that the listener-funded station

642
00:36:09,580 --> 00:36:11,580
is the one that is the most consistent.

643
00:36:11,580 --> 00:36:14,580
It's because we are not responsible to the whims of the commercial market.

644
00:36:14,580 --> 00:36:20,580
If a surveillance company really wanted to give WBAI a lot of money

645
00:36:20,580 --> 00:36:25,580
to get their pro-surveillance message on the air, we would say no.

646
00:36:25,580 --> 00:36:26,580
We'd say no to anyone.

647
00:36:26,580 --> 00:36:28,580
No, Mike, we wouldn't say no.

648
00:36:28,580 --> 00:36:29,580
We'd shout no.

649
00:36:29,580 --> 00:36:30,580
Okay.

650
00:36:30,580 --> 00:36:33,580
I don't want to shout into the microphone, but if I was on the other side of the room,

651
00:36:33,580 --> 00:36:36,580
I'd say it as loud as I could because that is the emphasis that we would use.

652
00:36:36,580 --> 00:36:37,580
Right.

653
00:36:37,580 --> 00:36:41,580
And the reason we're able to do that is because our listeners keep us on the air,

654
00:36:41,580 --> 00:36:46,580
keep us in a studio, and if you want us to continue to be able to do that,

655
00:36:46,580 --> 00:36:52,580
please join the people who are already calling 212-209-2950 and add your voice to that

656
00:36:52,580 --> 00:36:57,580
and say no, we do not want commercial money to corrupt WBAI.

657
00:36:57,580 --> 00:37:00,580
Don't say that when the person answers the phone because that's kind of rude.

658
00:37:00,580 --> 00:37:01,580
Say hello.

659
00:37:01,580 --> 00:37:02,580
How are you?

660
00:37:02,580 --> 00:37:04,580
Whatever you have to say to get the conversation started.

661
00:37:04,580 --> 00:37:06,580
And then just however much you want to pledge.

662
00:37:06,580 --> 00:37:09,580
And then at some point work in, no, you don't want this kind of radio,

663
00:37:09,580 --> 00:37:11,580
and I'm sure they will understand exactly what you mean.

664
00:37:11,580 --> 00:37:15,580
Again, 212-209-2950 or the website give2wbai.org.

665
00:37:15,580 --> 00:37:18,580
Yeah, it's much faster when you don't have to say the numeral two.

666
00:37:18,580 --> 00:37:20,580
Give2wbai.org.

667
00:37:20,580 --> 00:37:21,580
Wow.

668
00:37:21,580 --> 00:37:28,580
And pledge for off-the-hook premiums as they remain, if there are any left.

669
00:37:28,580 --> 00:37:30,580
Next week we will not be doing fundraising.

670
00:37:30,580 --> 00:37:32,580
We'll be doing a regular show, I hope.

671
00:37:32,580 --> 00:37:35,580
But 212-209-2950 is our phone number.

672
00:37:35,580 --> 00:37:36,580
Now, Bernie, you're back.

673
00:37:36,580 --> 00:37:38,580
Do you have a connection to London?

674
00:37:38,580 --> 00:37:41,580
No, I'm going to put you on hold for one minute and then bring London in.

675
00:37:41,580 --> 00:37:47,580
Another reason people should call and pledge 212-209-2950

676
00:37:47,580 --> 00:37:52,580
is you might be able to afford to hire someone competent enough to hook up another phone line

677
00:37:52,580 --> 00:37:55,580
or the Comrex device so we can have multiple people on the phone.

678
00:37:55,580 --> 00:37:58,580
Bernie, you didn't get your Twinkie for lunch today, did you?

679
00:37:58,580 --> 00:38:01,580
I just have this feeling that it hasn't been a great day.

680
00:38:01,580 --> 00:38:02,580
Okay, you know what?

681
00:38:02,580 --> 00:38:04,580
We're going to basically come back in one minute,

682
00:38:05,580 --> 00:38:07,580
and then hopefully we'll have that connection to London.

683
00:38:07,580 --> 00:38:11,580
You know we're on only until 8 o'clock, so we'll see if that happens.

684
00:38:11,580 --> 00:38:15,580
I absolutely echo what Bernie's saying there,

685
00:38:15,580 --> 00:38:19,580
and I think I'll just remind our listeners that this is a really critical time.

686
00:38:19,580 --> 00:38:27,580
Now, more than ever, your contribution to WBAI really impacts our production value on-air

687
00:38:27,580 --> 00:38:30,580
and our abilities behind the scenes.

688
00:38:30,580 --> 00:38:35,580
We're kind of stretching and unfurling into a really exciting new space,

689
00:38:35,580 --> 00:38:38,580
but with that comes a lot of construction, a lot of planning.

690
00:38:38,580 --> 00:38:42,580
And can I just say there are many, many competent people here that can do just that.

691
00:38:42,580 --> 00:38:44,580
They can do all kinds of things. They have done all kinds of things.

692
00:38:44,580 --> 00:38:47,580
It's just a question of all the things that need to be done.

693
00:38:47,580 --> 00:38:52,580
There is a wide variety, as anyone out there can probably imagine, with running a radio station.

694
00:38:52,580 --> 00:38:54,580
And most of us aren't paid anything.

695
00:38:54,580 --> 00:38:55,580
At all.

696
00:38:55,580 --> 00:38:58,580
Just out of either insanity or love that we do these things.

697
00:38:58,580 --> 00:39:00,580
It really is. It's a community effort.

698
00:39:00,580 --> 00:39:04,580
And so one of those things is getting a working phone system

699
00:39:04,580 --> 00:39:08,580
with the variety of lines and capabilities that we're so accustomed to.

700
00:39:08,580 --> 00:39:10,580
Are we accustomed to it?

701
00:39:10,580 --> 00:39:12,580
I mean, yeah, it's always been a struggle.

702
00:39:12,580 --> 00:39:15,580
But the important thing is that when you do have those conversations, that they mean something.

703
00:39:15,580 --> 00:39:17,580
All right, a minute has passed.

704
00:39:17,580 --> 00:39:20,580
Bernie, do we have that London connection?

705
00:39:20,580 --> 00:39:23,580
I don't hear anything. Bernie, are you there?

706
00:39:23,580 --> 00:39:25,580
Maybe he's connecting us as we speak.

707
00:39:25,580 --> 00:39:26,580
He said a minute.

708
00:39:27,580 --> 00:39:30,580
I'm not questioning competency here, but they did say a minute.

709
00:39:30,580 --> 00:39:32,580
It's been like two minutes.

710
00:39:32,580 --> 00:39:36,580
Transatlantic phone calls were made many decades ago.

711
00:39:36,580 --> 00:39:38,580
All right, well, we'll keep it up.

712
00:39:38,580 --> 00:39:40,580
Bernie, are you there?

713
00:39:40,580 --> 00:39:41,580
No, he's not there.

714
00:39:41,580 --> 00:39:43,580
We have to do a show. We have to talk about things.

715
00:39:43,580 --> 00:39:47,580
So let's go into another story, and we'll check back in with Bernie a little bit later.

716
00:39:49,580 --> 00:39:52,580
I am interested to hear what Alex has to say.

717
00:39:52,580 --> 00:39:58,580
And I'm sure Bernie's got some other thoughts on the Freedom Act and what's been going on.

718
00:39:58,580 --> 00:40:01,580
Yeah, but we're pretty much at the home stretch of our program now.

719
00:40:01,580 --> 00:40:05,580
So we'll have the rest of the year to talk about the Freedom Act.

720
00:40:06,580 --> 00:40:12,580
Okay, this is a story that comes out of Florida, a place called Pasco County.

721
00:40:12,580 --> 00:40:17,580
A teacher there has been suspended because he tried to stop cell phone use in his class.

722
00:40:17,580 --> 00:40:19,580
Well, that's not really why he was suspended.

723
00:40:19,580 --> 00:40:21,580
It's because of how he did that.

724
00:40:22,580 --> 00:40:26,580
Basically, Fivay, or Fivay, I don't know how you say that word,

725
00:40:26,580 --> 00:40:33,580
Fivay High School science teacher Dean Liptack said he'd had enough of students using cell phones in his class.

726
00:40:33,580 --> 00:40:36,580
And he basically, what do you think he did?

727
00:40:36,580 --> 00:40:43,580
He put a cell phone jammer in his classroom to keep kids from using the cell phone in his class.

728
00:40:43,580 --> 00:40:45,580
Now, he's received a five-day suspension without pay.

729
00:40:46,580 --> 00:40:50,580
He believed it was fine for him to use a jammer because it wasn't being done for malicious purposes.

730
00:40:50,580 --> 00:40:52,580
He was trying to make sure students were focused.

731
00:40:52,580 --> 00:40:56,580
But using jammers is illegal.

732
00:40:56,580 --> 00:41:00,580
You know, this story, I'm sorry, it's on ABC.

733
00:41:00,580 --> 00:41:06,580
And I'm just a grammar person sometimes.

734
00:41:06,580 --> 00:41:07,580
Using jammers are illegal.

735
00:41:07,580 --> 00:41:09,580
I mean, that's not right, is it, Mike?

736
00:41:09,580 --> 00:41:11,580
Using jammers is illegal.

737
00:41:11,580 --> 00:41:14,580
Jammers are illegal, but using jammers is illegal.

738
00:41:14,580 --> 00:41:19,580
I'm not one for, you know, prescriptivist, but I don't think this is right in anyone's dialogue.

739
00:41:19,580 --> 00:41:20,580
If I said that, I'd feel like an idiot.

740
00:41:20,580 --> 00:41:22,580
So that's why I stumbled.

741
00:41:22,580 --> 00:41:26,580
Anyway, using them can bring thousands of dollars in fines from the FCC and even jail time.

742
00:41:26,580 --> 00:41:27,580
People have been jailed.

743
00:41:27,580 --> 00:41:28,580
And, you know, I have one.

744
00:41:28,580 --> 00:41:29,580
I have one of these.

745
00:41:29,580 --> 00:41:31,580
It doesn't work anymore, but I had one.

746
00:41:31,580 --> 00:41:32,580
And I used it.

747
00:41:32,580 --> 00:41:33,580
I used it on trains.

748
00:41:33,580 --> 00:41:34,580
I used it on buses.

749
00:41:34,580 --> 00:41:35,580
And it made my life a lot better.

750
00:41:35,580 --> 00:41:41,580
But people, listen to this reaction that we get from people in the community.

751
00:41:42,580 --> 00:41:44,580
Pasco County School District Employee Relations Director.

752
00:41:44,580 --> 00:41:46,580
This is the guy that probably suspended him without pay.

753
00:41:46,580 --> 00:41:53,580
I don't think he understood the impact that this could have had on parents trying to reach students or public safety concerns or law enforcement.

754
00:41:53,580 --> 00:41:54,580
I don't think he had any idea of that.

755
00:41:54,580 --> 00:41:56,580
It was a situation with some pretty poor judgment.

756
00:41:56,580 --> 00:41:58,580
You know, I went to school for many years.

757
00:41:58,580 --> 00:42:00,580
And I didn't have a cell phone.

758
00:42:00,580 --> 00:42:03,580
And when people needed to reach me, there were ways of reaching me.

759
00:42:03,580 --> 00:42:04,580
You didn't have to have a cell phone.

760
00:42:04,580 --> 00:42:06,580
You didn't have to constantly be connected.

761
00:42:06,580 --> 00:42:08,580
What is so hard to understand about this?

762
00:42:08,580 --> 00:42:10,580
There are ways of getting a hold of people.

763
00:42:10,580 --> 00:42:20,580
You don't have to be completely tied to all the social networking and able to have your coordinates mapped 24 hours a day.

764
00:42:20,580 --> 00:42:22,580
We need to change that attitude, I think.

765
00:42:22,580 --> 00:42:24,580
I see head shaking.

766
00:42:24,580 --> 00:42:25,580
Am I wrong?

767
00:42:25,580 --> 00:42:36,580
What I like is that we hear just as many stories coming out of schools of schools not wanting children to have phones in class and making them leave them outside.

768
00:42:36,580 --> 00:42:44,580
There was a story here in New York City a few months ago about how schools would make children leave their phones at, say, a local bodega or other business.

769
00:42:44,580 --> 00:42:47,580
Or a business model actually popped up where vans would just park somewhere.

770
00:42:47,580 --> 00:42:54,580
Kids would leave their phones with this van for a small fee and pick it up after school because they weren't allowed to bring them in the building.

771
00:42:54,580 --> 00:42:58,580
And now we have a story where kids have their phones in the building and they're getting in trouble for blocking them using them.

772
00:42:58,580 --> 00:43:05,580
I must be, you know, if Dora were more around, he'd say I'm like diverging into a different evolutionary street or something.

773
00:43:05,580 --> 00:43:08,580
But why can't you just leave your damn phone at home?

774
00:43:08,580 --> 00:43:10,580
You do really need to have your phone with you at all times.

775
00:43:10,580 --> 00:43:13,580
I mean, if I forget my phone, it's not the end of the world.

776
00:43:13,580 --> 00:43:16,580
I can still figure out how to get to the places I'm going to and meet the people I want to meet.

777
00:43:16,580 --> 00:43:23,580
But it just seems like people are obsessed and they're using these things as crutches.

778
00:43:23,580 --> 00:43:29,580
If phones aren't allowed in schools, that should be something that is, you know, observed.

779
00:43:29,580 --> 00:43:31,580
The flappy bird is not going to flap itself.

780
00:43:31,580 --> 00:43:40,580
I mean, I can imagine being a teacher and just having all these kids on their phones or knowing they're on their phones or getting answers to tests or talking to each other.

781
00:43:40,580 --> 00:43:45,580
It makes things extremely just not conducive to learning.

782
00:43:45,580 --> 00:43:48,580
What if the children brought a landline phone? Would you support that?

783
00:43:48,580 --> 00:43:51,580
No, I wouldn't support that either. I wouldn't. I guess that surprises you.

784
00:43:52,580 --> 00:43:57,580
But there are landlines in the school, hopefully, that if there is an emergency of some sort, somebody can make a phone call.

785
00:43:57,580 --> 00:44:01,580
Well, you know, when I was in high school, we had to pass notes back and forth clandestinely.

786
00:44:01,580 --> 00:44:05,580
And I'm afraid that today's generations aren't going to develop those note-passing skills like I had to.

787
00:44:05,580 --> 00:44:09,580
Here's a challenge to anyone out there, whatever their age is, go a day without your phone.

788
00:44:09,580 --> 00:44:13,580
Just put your phone, turn it off, put it away, see what your life is like.

789
00:44:13,580 --> 00:44:17,580
I mean, yeah, there'll be some inconveniences, but I'll bet you'll survive.

790
00:44:17,580 --> 00:44:19,580
There's a little initial separation anxiety.

791
00:44:19,580 --> 00:44:20,580
A little bit.

792
00:44:20,580 --> 00:44:26,580
It's okay, though. You get over it. You get a little, like, sweat, you know, and that anxiety kind of subsides.

793
00:44:26,580 --> 00:44:27,580
Yeah, yeah.

794
00:44:27,580 --> 00:44:28,580
Slowly.

795
00:44:28,580 --> 00:44:29,580
It makes you a stronger person.

796
00:44:29,580 --> 00:44:30,580
You let go.

797
00:44:30,580 --> 00:44:32,580
Let's check in and see if Bernie's back yet. Bernie, are you there?

798
00:44:32,580 --> 00:44:35,580
I'm here, and Alex from London is on the line as well.

799
00:44:35,580 --> 00:44:40,580
Alex, wow. This is the phone call we've been waiting for for such a while.

800
00:44:40,580 --> 00:44:42,580
How are you doing out there?

801
00:44:42,580 --> 00:44:45,580
Well, I should say happy Thursday from London.

802
00:44:45,580 --> 00:44:51,580
It is Thursday over here, and I'm telling you, somebody's going to make a lightbulb joke about this fiasco tonight, right?

803
00:44:51,580 --> 00:44:55,580
How many hackers does it take to call London from New York kind of thing?

804
00:44:55,580 --> 00:45:00,580
But things are going very, very well over here, and I appreciate being on this evening with you gentlemen.

805
00:45:00,580 --> 00:45:02,580
It's always good to hear everyone's voice.

806
00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:08,580
Can I go back? Could we step back for two seconds so I could maybe make a comment about the intelligence reform?

807
00:45:08,580 --> 00:45:09,580
Would you mind?

808
00:45:09,580 --> 00:45:12,580
Let's step back and go ahead and comment.

809
00:45:13,580 --> 00:45:15,580
Well, you're not British yourself.

810
00:45:15,580 --> 00:45:18,580
You used to be here in New York, and now you're over there, so it's not really the British perspective,

811
00:45:18,580 --> 00:45:23,580
but you're tied into the overseas perspective more, I suppose.

812
00:45:23,580 --> 00:45:25,580
Well, exactly.

813
00:45:25,580 --> 00:45:29,580
What I find very interesting about this is the metadata that's being collected

814
00:45:29,580 --> 00:45:33,580
and the program that has been proposed is very similar, almost exactly similar,

815
00:45:33,580 --> 00:45:37,580
to what was implemented in the EU for a good period of time.

816
00:45:37,580 --> 00:45:41,580
In 2006, there was a data retention directive from the European Union

817
00:45:41,580 --> 00:45:46,580
that mandated that all telecommunications carriers essentially capture metadata,

818
00:45:46,580 --> 00:45:50,580
the metadata about which Rob was just speaking a few minutes ago.

819
00:45:50,580 --> 00:45:54,580
All of that had to be held for a period of between six and 24 months,

820
00:45:54,580 --> 00:45:58,580
and then law enforcement or intelligence agencies, security forces, anything like that,

821
00:45:58,580 --> 00:46:03,580
could go to a court and get a court order in the EU to access that data.

822
00:46:03,580 --> 00:46:07,580
It sounds very, very similar to the program that is proposed in the United States.

823
00:46:07,580 --> 00:46:08,580
Am I right?

824
00:46:08,580 --> 00:46:10,580
Yeah. Let me just correct you there, Alex, first.

825
00:46:10,580 --> 00:46:13,580
I know being over there in England, us Americans probably sound all the same to you now,

826
00:46:13,580 --> 00:46:16,580
but that was Kyle speaking about that, not Rob.

827
00:46:16,580 --> 00:46:19,580
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Sorry about that.

828
00:46:19,580 --> 00:46:20,580
Yes.

829
00:46:20,580 --> 00:46:22,580
Basically the same program.

830
00:46:22,580 --> 00:46:26,580
What's rather interesting about this is that last year in April,

831
00:46:26,580 --> 00:46:31,580
the Court of Justice of the European Union actually declared that directive invalid

832
00:46:31,580 --> 00:46:33,580
for violating fundamental human rights.

833
00:46:33,580 --> 00:46:38,580
There was then a European Parliament opinion

834
00:46:38,580 --> 00:46:42,580
that the blanket retention of unsuspicious persons' data

835
00:46:42,580 --> 00:46:45,580
violates the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights,

836
00:46:45,580 --> 00:46:48,580
and in that EU Charter is a fundamental right to privacy.

837
00:46:48,580 --> 00:46:53,580
So we're basically implementing what appears to be a program

838
00:46:53,580 --> 00:46:58,580
that has already been declared in violation of fundamental human rights in the EU.

839
00:46:59,580 --> 00:47:03,580
And then to go back to another point that was made,

840
00:47:03,580 --> 00:47:06,580
and maybe I'm getting it right now, but maybe Rob was talking about this,

841
00:47:06,580 --> 00:47:08,580
about the value of metadata.

842
00:47:08,580 --> 00:47:11,580
If you think about metadata as opposed to content,

843
00:47:11,580 --> 00:47:16,580
it's much, much easier to surveil a massive amount of people through metadata

844
00:47:16,580 --> 00:47:19,580
as opposed to listening to everyone's telephone calls.

845
00:47:19,580 --> 00:47:22,580
There was actually a New York Review of Books article about this,

846
00:47:22,580 --> 00:47:24,580
I think it was last year.

847
00:47:24,580 --> 00:47:27,580
And Stuart Baker, I'm not sure if anyone's familiar with him,

848
00:47:27,580 --> 00:47:30,580
but Stuart Baker was the NSA General Counsel.

849
00:47:30,580 --> 00:47:34,580
I should say Stuart and I worked together in the same law firm

850
00:47:34,580 --> 00:47:38,580
in private practice at Steptoe & Johnson in Washington for a number of years.

851
00:47:38,580 --> 00:47:41,580
But he's on the record as saying that, quote,

852
00:47:41,580 --> 00:47:45,580
metadata absolutely tells you everything about someone's life.

853
00:47:45,580 --> 00:47:49,580
If you have enough metadata, you don't really need content.

854
00:47:49,580 --> 00:47:54,580
And when this was quoted in the article back to General Michael Hayden,

855
00:47:54,580 --> 00:47:57,580
the former director of the NSA and CIA,

856
00:47:57,580 --> 00:48:00,580
he called Baker's comment absolutely correct

857
00:48:00,580 --> 00:48:02,580
and raised him one more by asserting,

858
00:48:02,580 --> 00:48:06,580
we kill people based on metadata.

859
00:48:06,580 --> 00:48:08,580
Quite interesting.

860
00:48:08,580 --> 00:48:10,580
So I guess, Alex, the question is,

861
00:48:10,580 --> 00:48:13,580
are we just, you know, like a decade behind the EU

862
00:48:13,580 --> 00:48:15,580
and this will get overturned here in a decade?

863
00:48:15,580 --> 00:48:18,580
Or is this just a temporary setback

864
00:48:18,580 --> 00:48:23,580
and we're going to be violating people's rights for decades to come?

865
00:48:23,580 --> 00:48:27,580
And I guess we don't know the answer yet, of course, but that's the question.

866
00:48:27,580 --> 00:48:28,580
Yeah, I think it's a good question.

867
00:48:28,580 --> 00:48:30,580
I think it's a good question.

868
00:48:30,580 --> 00:48:31,580
And speaking of which, I think, you know,

869
00:48:31,580 --> 00:48:33,580
one of the reasons why I was calling was because yesterday

870
00:48:33,580 --> 00:48:37,580
I actually heard the Director General for Cybersecurity for GCHQ,

871
00:48:37,580 --> 00:48:44,580
his name's Kieran Martin, speak at InfoSec Europe 2015 here in London.

872
00:48:44,580 --> 00:48:47,580
And one of the things that was quite interesting about his talk,

873
00:48:47,580 --> 00:48:52,580
which was otherwise pretty anodyne and boring,

874
00:48:52,580 --> 00:48:54,580
there really wasn't much content to it.

875
00:48:54,580 --> 00:48:55,580
But the interesting thing is, you know,

876
00:48:55,580 --> 00:48:57,580
he talked about money, power, and propaganda

877
00:48:57,580 --> 00:49:00,580
as being the three things that motivate cybercrime.

878
00:49:00,580 --> 00:49:04,580
But he didn't once in his entire speech, I have to say,

879
00:49:04,580 --> 00:49:05,580
and I applaud him for this,

880
00:49:05,580 --> 00:49:07,580
he didn't use the word hackers at all,

881
00:49:07,580 --> 00:49:09,580
which is very, very unusual.

882
00:49:09,580 --> 00:49:11,580
He didn't try to pin anything on hackers.

883
00:49:11,580 --> 00:49:13,580
The closest he ever came to saying hacker was

884
00:49:13,580 --> 00:49:17,580
he said the word hacktivist a couple times in the context of propaganda.

885
00:49:17,580 --> 00:49:21,580
But I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised that we weren't vilified.

886
00:49:21,580 --> 00:49:26,580
Well, what was the word hacktivist? Was that vilified?

887
00:49:26,580 --> 00:49:28,580
Not particularly.

888
00:49:28,580 --> 00:49:32,580
You know, no more than usual, but no less either, I would say.

889
00:49:32,580 --> 00:49:33,580
Okay.

890
00:49:33,580 --> 00:49:37,580
But it was quite interesting.

891
00:49:37,580 --> 00:49:43,580
And other things happening in London today was besides,

892
00:49:43,580 --> 00:49:45,580
and also relevant to Off the Hook,

893
00:49:45,580 --> 00:49:50,580
there was a talk about this automated dependent surveillance broadcast system

894
00:49:50,580 --> 00:49:53,580
of aircraft, which you guys have been talking about for the last couple of weeks.

895
00:49:53,580 --> 00:49:55,580
And there was an individual,

896
00:49:55,580 --> 00:49:58,580
Jill Greenwood, an aerospace engineering student and a pilot,

897
00:49:58,580 --> 00:50:00,580
actually, with the Royal Navy,

898
00:50:00,580 --> 00:50:03,580
who gave a talk about spoofing these broadcast messages,

899
00:50:03,580 --> 00:50:07,580
which would then pop up on a pilot's radar alert system

900
00:50:07,580 --> 00:50:11,580
and require them actually to divert the aircraft.

901
00:50:11,580 --> 00:50:14,580
Quite suddenly, I think within a period of 2.5 seconds,

902
00:50:14,580 --> 00:50:17,580
they would have a statutory requirement to divert the aircraft.

903
00:50:17,580 --> 00:50:19,580
This hasn't been actually tested on the plane,

904
00:50:19,580 --> 00:50:24,580
but I think it goes to a lot of what has been talked about

905
00:50:24,580 --> 00:50:26,580
in Off the Hook for the last couple of days.

906
00:50:26,580 --> 00:50:30,580
So a couple of pretty cool developments coming out of London here.

907
00:50:30,580 --> 00:50:31,580
Okay.

908
00:50:31,580 --> 00:50:35,580
Well, as always, good to hear your voice and your perspectives on things.

909
00:50:35,580 --> 00:50:37,580
Bernie, did you have anything to add?

910
00:50:37,580 --> 00:50:41,580
I just think it's really interesting that Americans,

911
00:50:41,580 --> 00:50:45,580
that it's ironic that this is called the USA Freedom Act,

912
00:50:45,580 --> 00:50:48,580
and it now proves that we have less freedom

913
00:50:48,580 --> 00:50:52,580
than the Europeans have under protection of law.

914
00:50:52,580 --> 00:50:57,580
So our law provides us with less freedom than a European law,

915
00:50:57,580 --> 00:51:00,580
which is kind of ironic.

916
00:51:00,580 --> 00:51:02,580
Yeah, that all has an inverse relationship.

917
00:51:02,580 --> 00:51:05,580
We had the Patriot Act, which was not about patriotism at all.

918
00:51:05,580 --> 00:51:07,580
We had the Freedom Act, which is not about freedom at all.

919
00:51:07,580 --> 00:51:10,580
The nicer and sparklier and more jingoistic a name of one of these acts is,

920
00:51:10,580 --> 00:51:13,580
I think, the more we should probably be afraid of it.

921
00:51:13,580 --> 00:51:16,580
If they come up with the Free Bunnies and Kittens Act,

922
00:51:16,580 --> 00:51:19,580
I think it's going to involve just shooting us all in the face or something.

923
00:51:19,580 --> 00:51:21,580
Well, they can never use the word freedom again.

924
00:51:21,580 --> 00:51:23,580
They can't use the word patriot again.

925
00:51:23,580 --> 00:51:24,580
Oh, but they can.

926
00:51:24,580 --> 00:51:26,580
Well, they'll use it, not just in the name of a bill.

927
00:51:26,580 --> 00:51:28,580
That's the thing.

928
00:51:28,580 --> 00:51:30,580
But that would be a brilliant tactic,

929
00:51:30,580 --> 00:51:33,580
come up with a new acronym that Patriot could stand for.

930
00:51:33,580 --> 00:51:36,580
Yeah, they're doing that more now than ever before.

931
00:51:36,580 --> 00:51:39,580
Alex, any final words from you?

932
00:51:39,580 --> 00:51:44,580
Yeah, I'd like to say I think that you were absolutely right to bring up Snowden before

933
00:51:44,580 --> 00:51:49,580
because I think we have to think about Obama in the context of Snowden as well

934
00:51:49,580 --> 00:51:53,580
because if Obama's owning this reform and lauding it as a victory now

935
00:51:53,580 --> 00:51:58,580
and his acolytes are claiming that this is going to be a reform that's pivotal to his legacy,

936
00:51:58,580 --> 00:51:59,580
then why hasn't, we have to ask,

937
00:51:59,580 --> 00:52:04,580
why hasn't the administration reversed its opinion with regard to the prosecution of Snowden?

938
00:52:04,580 --> 00:52:06,580
I think regardless of what you think about him personally,

939
00:52:06,580 --> 00:52:08,580
about the wisdom of his disclosures,

940
00:52:08,580 --> 00:52:12,580
it's hard to argue against the fact that he started this debate about privacy and surveillance,

941
00:52:12,580 --> 00:52:16,580
that but for Snowden there wouldn't be any reform to buttress Obama's legacy.

942
00:52:16,580 --> 00:52:18,580
If the ends justify the means in this context,

943
00:52:18,580 --> 00:52:22,580
I think the administration really needs to rethink its position.

944
00:52:22,580 --> 00:52:24,580
Well said.

945
00:52:24,580 --> 00:52:27,580
I'm solidly with you on that, Alex.

946
00:52:27,580 --> 00:52:30,580
I've been thinking that quite a bit in the last couple of days

947
00:52:30,580 --> 00:52:34,580
as we've been processing some of the rhetoric and action on this.

948
00:52:35,580 --> 00:52:36,580
Yeah.

949
00:52:36,580 --> 00:52:39,580
Could I give a shout out to the 2600 crew here in London

950
00:52:39,580 --> 00:52:42,580
that has been very, very hospitable to me over the last couple of days?

951
00:52:42,580 --> 00:52:43,580
I'm happy to hear that.

952
00:52:43,580 --> 00:52:47,580
I hear that you made contact with one of our friends, Zap, which is great to hear,

953
00:52:47,580 --> 00:52:49,580
so please pass our greetings on to him as well.

954
00:52:49,580 --> 00:52:53,580
And there are 2600 meetings coming up this Friday,

955
00:52:53,580 --> 00:52:56,580
and I know there's construction over at Trocadero,

956
00:52:56,580 --> 00:52:59,580
and I'm not sure if that affects the meetings at all.

957
00:53:00,580 --> 00:53:01,580
I don't think so.

958
00:53:01,580 --> 00:53:05,580
I think everything is going on as planned for this Friday.

959
00:53:05,580 --> 00:53:06,580
Okay.

960
00:53:06,580 --> 00:53:07,580
Great.

961
00:53:07,580 --> 00:53:08,580
Well, have a good time in London.

962
00:53:08,580 --> 00:53:12,580
Hey, can you drop that package off to Julian that we talked about?

963
00:53:12,580 --> 00:53:13,580
Well, you know what?

964
00:53:13,580 --> 00:53:14,580
We'll talk off the air.

965
00:53:14,580 --> 00:53:15,580
All right.

966
00:53:15,580 --> 00:53:16,580
We'll talk about that offline.

967
00:53:16,580 --> 00:53:17,580
Yeah.

968
00:53:17,580 --> 00:53:18,580
Yeah.

969
00:53:18,580 --> 00:53:19,580
All right.

970
00:53:19,580 --> 00:53:20,580
Good hearing from you again.

971
00:53:20,580 --> 00:53:21,580
Great.

972
00:53:21,580 --> 00:53:22,580
This is Julian Assange.

973
00:53:22,580 --> 00:53:23,580
You're listening to WBAI New York.

974
00:53:23,580 --> 00:53:25,580
Stay strong and keep listening.

975
00:53:25,580 --> 00:53:26,580
Yeah, indeed.

976
00:53:26,580 --> 00:53:27,580
I don't know how that happened.

977
00:53:27,580 --> 00:53:28,580
Okay.

978
00:53:28,580 --> 00:53:30,580
So down to our last few minutes.

979
00:53:30,580 --> 00:53:32,580
Rob, once again, the premiums that we're offering?

980
00:53:32,580 --> 00:53:34,580
For a pledge of at least $50,

981
00:53:34,580 --> 00:53:38,580
you can get a painting from me to you of a luminary from the hacker world,

982
00:53:38,580 --> 00:53:39,580
a figure from hacker history,

983
00:53:39,580 --> 00:53:41,580
acrylic on canvas,

984
00:53:41,580 --> 00:53:43,580
an actual physical painting for a pledge of at least $50.

985
00:53:43,580 --> 00:53:45,580
For a pledge of at least $55,

986
00:53:45,580 --> 00:53:47,580
you can get the Teach Your Kids to Code book,

987
00:53:47,580 --> 00:53:50,580
or you could get the beautiful Lego book full of Lego projects.

988
00:53:50,580 --> 00:53:52,580
Or for a pledge of at least $75,

989
00:53:52,580 --> 00:53:56,580
you can get both the beautiful Lego and the Teach Your Kids to Code books.

990
00:53:57,580 --> 00:54:01,580
You can also see what other premiums there are available that just BAI has.

991
00:54:01,580 --> 00:54:05,580
Make sure you specify off the hook as the show you're donating in the name of.

992
00:54:05,580 --> 00:54:08,580
And you'll become part of what's going on here and support our show

993
00:54:08,580 --> 00:54:10,580
and support our station and keep the lights on.

994
00:54:10,580 --> 00:54:15,580
Again, 212-209-2950 or give to WBAI.org.

995
00:54:15,580 --> 00:54:18,580
And, Rob, I believe there are meetings this week.

996
00:54:18,580 --> 00:54:19,580
Yes, indeed.

997
00:54:19,580 --> 00:54:20,580
Actually, I'm traveling this weekend.

998
00:54:20,580 --> 00:54:22,580
If you're going to be at the Washington, D.C. meeting,

999
00:54:22,580 --> 00:54:23,580
I'm going to check that out.

1000
00:54:23,580 --> 00:54:25,580
So I hope to see you there.

1001
00:54:25,580 --> 00:54:28,580
And, yeah, everywhere else, 2600.com slash meetings.

1002
00:54:28,580 --> 00:54:29,580
Find one near you.

1003
00:54:29,580 --> 00:54:32,580
OTH at 2600.com is our email address.

1004
00:54:32,580 --> 00:54:33,580
See you next week.

1005
00:54:33,580 --> 00:54:34,580
Hello?

1006
00:54:35,580 --> 00:54:36,580
Hello?

1007
00:54:37,580 --> 00:54:38,580
Hello?

1008
00:54:39,580 --> 00:54:40,580
Hello?

1009
00:54:41,580 --> 00:54:42,580
Hello?

1010
00:54:45,580 --> 00:54:46,580
Hello?

1011
00:54:55,580 --> 00:54:56,580
Hello?

1012
00:55:01,580 --> 00:55:04,580
The number you have dialed has not been recognized.

1013
00:55:04,580 --> 00:55:06,580
Please check and try again.

1014
00:55:07,580 --> 00:55:09,580
The number you have dialed has not been recognized.

1015
00:55:09,580 --> 00:55:11,580
Please check and try again.

1016
00:55:11,580 --> 00:55:12,580
Hello?

1017
00:55:13,580 --> 00:55:14,580
Hello?

1018
00:55:14,580 --> 00:55:15,580
Hello?

1019
00:55:15,580 --> 00:55:16,580
Hello?

1020
00:55:16,580 --> 00:55:18,580
Please check and try again.

1021
00:55:25,580 --> 00:55:26,580
Hello?

1022
00:55:26,580 --> 00:55:27,580
Hello?

1023
00:55:27,580 --> 00:55:28,580
Hello?

1024
00:55:30,580 --> 00:55:33,580
The number you have called is not available.

1025
00:55:34,580 --> 00:55:37,580
Sorry, the number you have called is not available.

1026
00:55:39,580 --> 00:55:40,580
Hello?

1027
00:55:41,580 --> 00:55:42,580
Hello?

1028
00:55:43,580 --> 00:55:45,580
The number you have called is not available.

1029
00:55:45,580 --> 00:55:46,580
Hello?

1030
00:55:55,580 --> 00:55:58,580
The number you have dialed has not been reached at this time.

1031
00:55:58,580 --> 00:56:00,580
Please check and try again.

1032
00:56:00,580 --> 00:56:02,580
Please check and try again.

1033
00:56:02,580 --> 00:56:05,580
The number you have dialed has not been reached at this time.

1034
00:56:05,580 --> 00:56:07,580
Please check and try again.

1035
00:56:07,580 --> 00:56:09,580
Please check and try again.

1036
00:56:09,580 --> 00:56:12,580
The number you have dialed has not been reached at this time.

1037
00:56:12,580 --> 00:56:14,580
Please check and try again.

1038
00:56:14,580 --> 00:56:16,580
Please check and try again.

1039
00:56:16,580 --> 00:56:18,580
Please check and try again.

1040
00:56:18,580 --> 00:56:21,580
The number you have dialed has not been reached at this time.

1041
00:56:21,580 --> 00:56:23,580
Please check and try again.

1042
00:56:23,580 --> 00:56:26,580
The number you....

1043
00:56:28,580 --> 00:56:30,580
Hello?

1044
00:56:31,580 --> 00:56:33,580
The number you have dialed....

1045
00:56:33,580 --> 00:56:35,580
Hello!

1046
00:56:36,580 --> 00:56:38,580
Hello!

1047
00:56:39,580 --> 00:56:41,580
Hello!

1048
00:56:41,580 --> 00:56:43,580
Hello!

1049
00:56:44,580 --> 00:56:46,580
Hello!

1050
00:56:46,580 --> 00:56:48,580
Please check and try again.

1051
00:56:50,580 --> 00:56:53,580
A number you have dialed has not been recognized.

1052
00:56:53,580 --> 00:56:56,580
Please check and try again.

1053
00:56:57,580 --> 00:57:00,580
A number you have dialed has not been recognized.

1054
00:57:00,580 --> 00:57:02,580
Please check and try again.

1055
00:57:02,580 --> 00:57:05,580
A number you have dialed has not been recognized.

1056
00:57:05,580 --> 00:57:08,580
Please check and try again.

1057
00:57:16,580 --> 00:57:18,580
Hello? Hello?

1058
00:57:22,580 --> 00:57:23,580
Hello?

1059
00:57:24,580 --> 00:57:25,580
Hello?

1060
00:57:27,580 --> 00:57:28,580
Hello?

1061
00:57:30,580 --> 00:57:31,580
Hello?

1062
00:57:32,580 --> 00:57:33,580
Hello?

1063
00:57:35,580 --> 00:57:36,580
Hello?

1064
00:57:46,580 --> 00:57:47,580
Hello?

1065
00:57:48,580 --> 00:57:49,580
Hello?

1066
00:57:52,580 --> 00:57:53,580
Hello?

1067
00:57:56,580 --> 00:57:57,580
Hello?

1068
00:58:01,580 --> 00:58:02,580
Hello?

1069
00:58:06,580 --> 00:58:07,580
Hello?