1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,240
Free Speech Radio News is a worker-run collective. Our newscast is produced by Simba Rousseau

2
00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:10,800
and Monica Lopez. Today's headlines editor is Mitch Jesserich. Our Washington editor

3
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:16,640
is Leanne Caldwell. Our technical production team at KPFA in Berkeley includes Eric Klein

4
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:25,880
and Antonio Ortiz. You can find archives of our newscast and documentaries online at www.fsrn.org.

5
00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:33,160
You can also email us your comments, questions, and story ideas to comments at fsrn.org.

6
00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:42,840
From KPFA in Berkeley, I'm Andrea Lewis, sitting in for Aura Bogado.

7
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,920
And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI New York. It's 7 o'clock on a Wednesday night.

8
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:54,920
Which means it's time for Off the Hook.

9
00:01:47,920 --> 00:02:17,520
And a very good evening to everybody. The program is Off the Hook. Emmanuel Goldstein

10
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:22,120
here with you for the next hour, battling technology all the way. We've been away for

11
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:27,080
two weeks, but we're back now. And we have a full cast of characters here. And I don't

12
00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,680
use that term lightly. Jim, welcome.

13
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,080
Cast of characters, and then you refer to me. Thank you.

14
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:34,080
And Mike.

15
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:35,080
Hi.

16
00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:36,080
Redbird.

17
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,080
Good evening.

18
00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,080
Red Hat.

19
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,080
Hello.

20
00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:40,080
And Arseny.

21
00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:41,080
Hi.

22
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,080
And is that Bernie S. I detect down there in Philadelphia.

23
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,120
Did you say that I have character or that I am a character?

24
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:52,080
Let's just leave that no comment for now. We're back. Another hour of talk about technology

25
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:57,200
and all sorts of other issues that are coming up. Anything interesting happen to you guys

26
00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,800
in the last couple of weeks? We did well on the fundraiser. Thanks to everybody who called

27
00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:01,800
in.

28
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:02,800
Yeah, they are our listeners.

29
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:08,960
Yeah, really. They really came through for us. It's amazing. We were so clear as to the

30
00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:14,000
fact that we were giving away the premiums during our show, and that's it. And you couldn't

31
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,880
pledge for them during other periods. We got so much mail from people saying, can you

32
00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:22,320
make an exception just for me? And it's call the radio station and pledge by all means.

33
00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:27,800
But the premiums, it's sort of an enticement to listen to the program, listen to the program

34
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:28,800
live.

35
00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,360
But yeah, there's all sorts of other things that we'll be having in future fundraisers.

36
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:39,000
So if you didn't call, feel free to call in the future. So yeah, we did great on the fundraiser

37
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:46,000
and looking forward to the next one, which will be here before you know it. Has any momentous

38
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,000
news happened? NSA spying on even more people? Jim, you have something?

39
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:56,560
There is momentous news for listeners in the United States. And ironically, the government

40
00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:02,480
is going to help those of you who pledged recoup some of your money. That famous excise

41
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,960
tax on telephones from the Spanish-American War has finally died.

42
00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,960
At age 108.

43
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,960
108 years of a tax that we're not supposed to be paying.

44
00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:19,840
A luxury tax, which shows how long it was, aside from the fact it was started in 1898.

45
00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:24,960
But if you didn't, a luxury tax on telephones would tell you that it was a pretty old idea.

46
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:33,400
And back in those days, telephones cost, according to the various articles, $100 a month, which

47
00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,960
was an incredible, incredible amount of money.

48
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,960
They cost $100 a month back then?

49
00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:46,960
Apparently, yeah. That's in current dollars though. So it was more expensive, but it was

50
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:51,960
not so outrageous as to be just for Rockefeller and Carnegie.

51
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:52,960
Wow.

52
00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:54,960
Well, a lot of people still spend that.

53
00:04:54,960 --> 00:05:02,960
Right, right, right. But still, $100 per month in 1900 would be pretty damn middle class,

54
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,960
whereas now it would have to be more like $5,000 a month or $10,000 a month.

55
00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,960
I think it would catapult above middle class back in 1900.

56
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:09,960
Right, exactly.

57
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,960
Bernie, I know you had something to say about this, about this tax. Are you going to try

58
00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:14,960
to get yours back?

59
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:20,960
Well, that's what people are gearing up for. They haven't exactly, the IRS hasn't really

60
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:26,960
released rules yet on how you can stake your claim for all the telephone taxes you have

61
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,960
paid, but apparently it looks like you're going to have to provide copies of all the

62
00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:37,960
phone bills you've ever paid in which you want to get reimbursed for the Spanish-American

63
00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,960
telephone taxes, federal taxes, on your phone bill.

64
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:47,960
Now, it would be interesting to see how cooperative telephone companies, both wired and wireless,

65
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:55,960
will be with people who call to say, hey, I'd like copies of all my past bills so I

66
00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:01,960
can reclaim this tax. By the way, this tax was just ruled unconstitutional by a federal

67
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,960
judge, and the federal government decided they weren't going to take it to the Supreme

68
00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,960
Court because they knew they were going to lose, because by law it really was unconstitutional.

69
00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:15,960
So, yeah, I'm starting to collect my old phone bills. I don't have them going back all that

70
00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,960
far, but businesses are the ones you really have the most to gain by this. Some companies,

71
00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:25,960
like the company I work, we've got 50 phone lines, and that taxes every one of those lines.

72
00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:27,960
But not since 1900. You weren't around that long.

73
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,960
No, no, no. But I'm saying that if you've got 50 phone lines, you've got a lot more

74
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,960
to gain by even going back a few years as opposed to an individual. But I think everybody

75
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,960
should really start trying to get all your past phone bills. You can do this now. You

76
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,960
can try to collect all your past phone bills, call your phone company, say I want them going

77
00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,960
back as far as I can get them, because within the next few months you'll be able to submit

78
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:55,960
a claim, and this could really amount to several hundred dollars to your average person.

79
00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,960
I'd imagine this would be pretty difficult because I haven't actually received a hard

80
00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:03,960
copy of my phone bill in a while. I do everything online. And if I remember correctly, with

81
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:08,960
most providers, online interface, they usually only allow you to go back a couple of months,

82
00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:09,960
like maybe six months max.

83
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,960
But they're the phone company. They keep all the records. I know because the NSA keeps

84
00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:18,960
asking for them, and they give it to them. So these are the people that have all the

85
00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,960
information, and of course, yeah, they'll say we only give it for a couple of months.

86
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,960
I save everything, and I guess that's one of the advantages. I'm not looking forward

87
00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,960
to going through decades of phone bills.

88
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,960
I bet they're much more cooperative with the NSA than they would be with one individual

89
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:33,960
calling.

90
00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,960
You think the NSA is going to get their tax back? Yes, Bernie.

91
00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,960
I'm just agreeing with the Redbird guy. You think they're going to be more cooperative

92
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:48,960
with the NSA than the average citizen? By the way, we found out yesterday that Arlen

93
00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:54,960
Specter, our stalwart privacy advocate with respect to this NSA spying infrastructure,

94
00:07:54,960 --> 00:08:03,960
is backing down now and apparently cooperating with Warren Hatch in a deal to not subpoena

95
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:13,960
the telephone company executives as was originally planned, such as AT&T, SBC, Verizon, etc.

96
00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,960
So they got to him, huh?

97
00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:21,960
Apparently somebody got to him through Warren Hatch, and apparently the telephone company

98
00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,960
executives are not going to be subpoenaed after all. Now, I'm sure those executives

99
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:33,960
would just do what the tobacco industry executives do and plead that, you know, I can't recall

100
00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:40,960
or whatever, but it's kind of a whitewash at this point. The telephone company executives

101
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:46,960
who apparently sold out our privacy against federal law are not even going to be held

102
00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,960
accountable by even giving subpoenas to answer why they did this.

103
00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,960
And last show we were talking about how the FCC was backing down from doing any sort of

104
00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,960
investigation whatsoever. So yeah, they're going to totally get away with this.

105
00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,960
But what's interesting is AT&T seems to be the only company that isn't denying that they did it.

106
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,960
Am I mistaken in hearing this?

107
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,960
SBC denied the Washington Times story.

108
00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,960
Right. Everybody's denying it, but AT&T, they have not denied it, right?

109
00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:13,960
AT&T and SBC are the same company.

110
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,960
Oh, that's right. I keep forgetting. How many of these companies are actually the same company?

111
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,960
Verizon is MCI, right?

112
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:21,960
There's only two companies left, I think.

113
00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,960
Well, there were three cited in the USA Today article, right? The original article.

114
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,960
And so far we have no proof that those who are denying it actually didn't do anything.

115
00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,960
How do we get that proof exactly? It's impossible.

116
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:42,960
Well, one way is that the documents they're filing in court, they did not redact properly.

117
00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:44,960
And this is an issue we've covered before.

118
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,960
Now, perhaps you could explain what that means exactly and how silly it really is.

119
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,960
All right. If you have a document and it has some public information and some secret information,

120
00:09:53,960 --> 00:10:00,960
what you used to do in the old days was you took the document, you took a black marker and photocopied it or something,

121
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:02,960
so you couldn't read behind the black marker and gave it to the person.

122
00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,960
Black markers are great. They do so much. And they do that and they do it effectively.

123
00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:12,960
Now what you do, apparently, is you export it to a PDF and draw black boxes on top of it.

124
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:18,960
But what they don't realize is that the text beneath the black box is still there.

125
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,960
So you can copy and paste and get all the text.

126
00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,960
So do you run a program called Remove Black Box or is it just one thing?

127
00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,960
You just run the reader and you go copy and then you paste it into something else.

128
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,960
Picture it as a layer on top of the image and that's it.

129
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:33,960
You just remove the top layer and you see everything.

130
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:34,960
Now, I heard about this.

131
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,960
There's a document that the NSA published that I highly recommend to anyone.

132
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:41,960
It's called Redacting with Confidence.

133
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:42,960
Yeah, they told people how.

134
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:44,960
It's very informative.

135
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,960
I heard about this years ago. These guys didn't hear about it?

136
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,960
Don't recommend that. We want to see what they're saying.

137
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,960
We spoke about this because I think there was some government that had released a document

138
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,960
that they redacted in probably a year and a half.

139
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,960
This is at least the third time we've instructed the NSA how to do it.

140
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,960
From now on, we're charging you guys at the NSA, okay?

141
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,960
We're not going to do it on air. You have to pay us.

142
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,960
This is the AT&T, not the NSA.

143
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:08,960
Let's hear what they did.

144
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:14,960
This is the lawsuit that, as you know, the EFF is suing AT&T saying it's against the law what you've done.

145
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,960
Is this some kind of law? Everybody has to have a three-letter acronym here?

146
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:19,960
EFF, AT&T, NSA. Okay, fine.

147
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:21,960
Yes, it's a rule.

148
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,960
Give us an update as to what we do.

149
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:24,960
That's why we're not involved.

150
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,960
What did we learn from AT&T's ignorance?

151
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,960
Well, not a whole lot, actually.

152
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,960
What did they redact? Did they redact anything interesting?

153
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:38,960
I think the details of what is in this secret room, exactly.

154
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,960
Oh, the secret room that they supposedly do all the monitoring from?

155
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:42,960
Yeah.

156
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:49,960
I don't actually have a copy of the document with me, but you can get it from news.com.com.com, whatever they're called.

157
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:51,960
Okay. All right.

158
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,960
And this is the case that the government is asserting a state secrets privilege

159
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,960
in order to sort of get the whole lawsuit thrown out before they even find out what's going on.

160
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:11,960
Another big story that has been hitting all over locally is the 40% cut of homeland security funds for New York.

161
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,960
I swear I have never seen so many people fall for something at the same time.

162
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:18,960
This is how it sounded last week.

163
00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:23,960
The representatives, all the representatives, the senators, state representatives, everybody,

164
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,960
was in an uproar because there is less money coming in for homeland security funds.

165
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:29,960
It's kind of nebulous as to what exactly that means.

166
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,960
But this is the best report that I heard. I heard it last week.

167
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:41,960
And they're basically almost tearfully saying that now the program of global surveillance for downtown,

168
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,960
what do they call that, the wall of-

169
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,960
Yeah, they were trying to emulate what they had.

170
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:46,960
The ring of iron.

171
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:47,960
Right.

172
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,960
And the ring of iron where everything would be seen is in danger. It's in jeopardy.

173
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:52,960
Oh, no.

174
00:12:53,960 --> 00:13:00,960
The New York City Police Department might have to back down from their plan to put sharpshooters on the roof of popular tourist attractions.

175
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,960
And boy, it just sounded so sad.

176
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,960
It sounded like a social program was getting cut.

177
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:05,960
The NYPD was in tears.

178
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,960
They want to put snipers everywhere.

179
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,960
And now they can't do it because there isn't enough money.

180
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,960
And everybody is falling for this.

181
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:12,960
Everybody is falling for this.

182
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:14,960
This doesn't do anything.

183
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:19,960
Putting snipers in places just makes people think like they're under occupation, having cameras everywhere.

184
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,960
It doesn't give you security.

185
00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:23,960
That is not accomplished in that way.

186
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:28,960
If I'm correct, this is a copy of what they were trying to do in London or what they did in London, what they already have there, right?

187
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,960
I know they're using London as a model in some ways, but I think they're going well beyond what London is doing.

188
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:34,960
Okay.

189
00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:35,960
Yeah.

190
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:36,960
Ring of steel.

191
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:37,960
Ring of steel.

192
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:38,960
Is that what it is, ring of steel or ring of iron?

193
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,960
They call it the ring of steel in London.

194
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:41,960
Okay.

195
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:42,960
Well, it's a ring of stupidity if you ask me.

196
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:43,960
Arsony.

197
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,960
Didn't some guy get shot in the face like six times in London also?

198
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:48,960
What does that have to do with anything?

199
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,960
Well, I mean, then they had all this money for that.

200
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:52,960
I don't know people that didn't get shot six times in the face here.

201
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,960
Oh, you're talking about the innocent guy that got shot in the underground because they thought he was guilty of something because he was wearing a coat.

202
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,960
Well, he ran too.

203
00:13:58,960 --> 00:13:59,960
No, he didn't run.

204
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:00,960
He didn't run.

205
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,960
Later turns out they ran onto the train and shot him.

206
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:04,960
He was sitting on the train when they shot him.

207
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:13,960
Right, because the orders are to make sure that he can't get a suicide switch going, shoot him in the head, otherwise the arms might jerk or something.

208
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,960
It's interesting to see how the stories change if you just keep paying attention to them after they initially get reported.

209
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,960
Something that turns out to be an obvious threat turns out to be less obvious and then not a threat at all.

210
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:29,960
That has a curious tie into something that I've only seen exploited, well, mentioned in the New York press.

211
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:42,960
The Post came out with an article from information from the NYPD on cell phone guns, a gun that would shoot four .22 caliber bullets out of something that looked like or perhaps originally was a cell phone.

212
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:57,960
And the New York press ran with this and pointed out that once you have people with the idea of a cell phone gun, since everyone carries a cell phone, everyone is now a suspect.

213
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,960
Well, yeah, everyone's been a suspect for a while.

214
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,960
Well, yeah, but this now justifies it more.

215
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:15,960
What happened in Canada in the last week where suspected terrorists were captured who were planning all sorts of things, a real Olympics of terrorist acts from blowing up buildings to beheading the prime minister.

216
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,960
I mean, you know, it sounds like a wish list, but did they actually have a plan?

217
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:20,960
That's what I'm curious about.

218
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:29,960
But anyway, what the United States is now looking at, they're looking at this as proof, this in addition to what happened in July last year in England, that the next attack will come from within our country.

219
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,960
So that means all of us are suspects, all of us are potential al-Qaeda members.

220
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,960
Well, some more than others in their view of things.

221
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:38,960
Yeah, but the only way to find out is to watch everybody.

222
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:39,960
In a manual?

223
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:40,960
Yes.

224
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,960
You mentioned how the facts change in these stories as time goes on.

225
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:57,960
I've already, since the Canadian story broke a few days ago, heard multiple major news outlets say that these guys, some of them were underage teenagers, possessed 6,000 pounds of explosives.

226
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,960
Well, no, they possessed 6,000 pounds of fertilizer.

227
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:03,960
Explosives.

228
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,960
You have to mix it with other chemicals and go through a process, whatever, to make it into explosives.

229
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,960
I'm not saying these people weren't dangerous, but you can't say something is something that it didn't.

230
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:19,960
It's almost like saying dental putty is C4 plastic explosives.

231
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:21,960
All right, I knew that dental putty was going to come back.

232
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:27,960
But yeah, basically what they did was they accepted 6,000 pounds of fertilizer from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

233
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,960
Was it from the horses?

234
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,960
I don't know where they got the fertilizer, but that's basically what happened.

235
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:39,960
And yeah, it's an unusual thing to have delivered to you, that's for sure, if you're not a farmer.

236
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,960
And the cops were on top of it from the beginning, I guess.

237
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,960
What do you do with 6,000 pounds of really anything?

238
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,960
Well, I'm sure Timothy McVeigh would have had a good answer for that, but he's no longer around.

239
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:56,960
So yeah, that's something that we will see ripple effects of that, certainly, in many different ways.

240
00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:02,960
And you know, to this day, a lot of people still are not concerned with the NSA monitoring all these connections.

241
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:08,960
They're not listening in on the phone calls, at least not – they haven't admitted to that, or we haven't figured it out yet, but they are collecting.

242
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:14,960
Their goal is to have a record for every phone call placed inside the United States.

243
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,960
That's their goal, and that scares me.

244
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,960
And if it doesn't scare you, I don't know, there's a disconnect someplace.

245
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,960
I'm not quite sure where it is.

246
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,960
If you're not scared yet, we've got even more that's scary.

247
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,960
According to the New York Times last Friday, the Justice Department is asking Internet companies

248
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:34,960
to keep records on the web surfing of their customers to aid law enforcement.

249
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:41,960
And there's speculation that they'll have legislation introduced to force them to do this.

250
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:42,960
That's scary, all right.

251
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,960
We already have this, of course, in Europe, and it's pretty bad.

252
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:46,960
Okay.

253
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,960
We have lots of listener mail.

254
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,960
We like to catch up because we haven't been on for a couple of weeks.

255
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,960
Our email address is othat2600.com.

256
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,960
Let's see what people have to say.

257
00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:03,960
Dear OffTheHook, I was surprised by the sound of apparently real electromechanical ringers on WBAI's phones during your May 24th FunDrive broadcast.

258
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:09,960
I enjoy using a 1958 Western Electric wall-mounted rotary-dialed telephone to make local calls.

259
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:10,960
I'm sorry.

260
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,960
I don't mean to laugh, but it just sounds funny.

261
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:19,960
It's a model 554A-B with a non-modular fabric-covered handset cord found at a local ham fest.

262
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:20,960
All right.

263
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,960
Everybody in the room who has never used a rotary phone, raise your hand.

264
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:23,960
Okay.

265
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:25,960
It's not that bad then.

266
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:26,960
You've all used a rotary phone?

267
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:27,960
Of course.

268
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:28,960
Even the young people here have used a rotary.

269
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:29,960
Okay.

270
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:30,960
I'm surprised.

271
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:31,960
Some people don't know how to operate them.

272
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:32,960
They really don't.

273
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:33,960
They're mystified.

274
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:34,960
We still use the word dial.

275
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:36,960
Yeah, we still use the word dial.

276
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:37,960
Why is that exactly?

277
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:38,960
Why not?

278
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:39,960
I haven't dialed anything in ages.

279
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:41,960
The alternatives are terrible.

280
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:42,960
Punch in the number?

281
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:43,960
Push.

282
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:44,960
You've got dials right on the device.

283
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:45,960
Enter.

284
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:46,960
You have your left hand on it.

285
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:47,960
Enter the number.

286
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:48,960
That's what you have to do.

287
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:49,960
You enter everything these days, right?

288
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:50,960
You enter data.

289
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:51,960
You enter phone numbers.

290
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:52,960
Okay.

291
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:53,960
Yeah.

292
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:54,960
Enter insanity.

293
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,960
It has two actual physical metal bells inside the case and a little electromechanical striking

294
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,960
device to make them ring.

295
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,960
Unfortunately, the ringer doesn't work.

296
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,960
I've sought the advice of phone freaks and antique enthusiasts.

297
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,960
Some have said that the electrical characteristics of the U.S. phone system have changed since

298
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,960
1958 and today's system no longer sends the proper signal to cause my phone to ring.

299
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,960
Others say there have been no such changes and cite the possibility that my phone is

300
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,960
broken or improperly wired to explain its silence.

301
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,960
Were there changes to the phone system that might cause my old phone to cease ringing?

302
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,960
If so, what's the oldest phone model year that I might expect to ring?

303
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,960
Signed, Tim, listening from WBCQ as well as online.

304
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,960
Well, okay, Jim, you have an answer for this?

305
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,960
My aunt has the same telephone in her bedroom since 1967.

306
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,960
1958 Western Electric wall-mounted rotary dial telephone?

307
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,960
I don't know, but she has a phone that's at least from 1967.

308
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,960
Oh, she's had the same phone herself.

309
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:47,960
I thought you meant the same as...

310
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:48,960
Right.

311
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:49,960
Okay.

312
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,960
And this phone continues to ring, so I doubt that there's that much a difference between

313
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:58,960
a 58 phone and a 67 phone, and consequently, I doubt that this phone is not ringing.

314
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:04,960
The phone has a lot of...the ringer has a lot of copper wire wrapped around the electromagnet,

315
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,960
and it's very, very thin.

316
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,960
One little break would screw it up, so I suspect it's your phone.

317
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,960
I was just going to say the same thing.

318
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,960
It's just a high-voltage AC waveform sent down the line when you want the phone to ring,

319
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,960
and it's just an electromagnet, so check your phone.

320
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:22,960
It's probably your phone that's broken.

321
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:23,960
Try another...

322
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:24,960
I have an answer for this guy.

323
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:25,960
Bernie, go ahead.

324
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,960
The ringing voltage has been standard since the 40s.

325
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,960
It's 90 volts at 20 cycles per second.

326
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,960
And his phone may work.

327
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:40,960
It's possible he has an old party line phone, because I remember one of my neighbors when I was a little kid

328
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,960
had a party line phone, and it still had a 90-volt ringer in there,

329
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:50,960
but there was a weight in there that made it resonate at a different frequency.

330
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,960
What the phone company would do is, depending on which party shared the same local loop on the party line,

331
00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:01,960
they would ring it at 90 volts at maybe 20 cycles or 40 cycles or 60 cycles,

332
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,960
and then it would selectively ring just that party's phone,

333
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,960
and they could all share the same line that way, and it wouldn't be answering other people's calls.

334
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:14,960
So he might have an old party line phone from 1958 that's tuned for something other than 20 cycles.

335
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,960
So if he can look if there's a weight on there, he can adjust.

336
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,960
See, I thought party line phones simply indicated which party by a different kind of ring,

337
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:24,960
like two short rings and one long ring.

338
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,960
I thought that was the only difference.

339
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:27,960
It depends on the switch.

340
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,960
There were some switches where you could actually have a different ringing frequency,

341
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,960
and my neighbors were one of them.

342
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,960
It wouldn't ring.

343
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,960
And I asked his dad why that was, and he's an electrical engineer.

344
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,960
And he showed it to me, and there's an adjustment that you could make.

345
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,960
We actually adjusted it to the other.

346
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,960
Then it would ring at different times when his neighbor's got calls.

347
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,960
But you could still listen in on the neighbor's calls regardless, right?

348
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:50,960
Oh, yeah.

349
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:51,960
Okay.

350
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:52,960
That's the importance of a party line.

351
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,960
It seems like a mechanical bandpass filter.

352
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,960
That sounds very interesting.

353
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:57,960
All right.

354
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,960
So I think you can get your phone to work unless it's that weird party line thing, which would be interesting.

355
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:02,960
Or it could be broken.

356
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:03,960
It could be broken.

357
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:04,960
Yeah, it could be broken.

358
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,960
Try another rotary phone in there.

359
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:08,960
All right.

360
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:09,960
Hello, folks.

361
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:15,960
I heard Mike talking about his Cuban e-mail account and Emmanuel's remark about Telnet slash SSH access and got curious.

362
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,960
I sat down to do some research but came to a seemingly dead stop in short order.

363
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,960
The reason, carieste.cuba.cu does not resolve here in the States, at least not using my DNS server.

364
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:32,960
Of course, other domains in the .cu.tld resolve and can be accessed here, but I can't get at that particular domain at all.

365
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:33,960
It makes me wonder.

366
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,960
I don't know whether both the names and IPs involved with that site are blocked, and if so, by whom.

367
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,960
It would be neat to see some info on the domain, if not some of what was being hosted there,

368
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,960
but someone obviously doesn't think that would be in my best interest.

369
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,960
Any info on this, Mike?

370
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:52,960
Well, first I want to apologize for the mistake I made on the air last time, and it's Correo de Cuba, no S.

371
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,960
Correo, C-O-R-R-E-O-D-E-C-U-B-A.

372
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:55,960
Wait, how many R's?

373
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:56,960
Two R's.

374
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,960
Okay, C-O-R-R-E-O-D-E-C-U-B-A.

375
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:01,960
Two O's?

376
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:02,960
No.

377
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,960
It sounded like you said E-O-O.

378
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:05,960
That's what I heard.

379
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:06,960
Yeah.

380
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,960
C-O-R-R-E-O-D-E-C-U-B-A.C-U.

381
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:10,960
Okay, that's it.

382
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:11,960
I'm not saying it again.

383
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,960
That's the master recording right now, and everything will be referred back to that one.

384
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,960
Okay, so that does resolve in the United States.

385
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:17,960
No, it doesn't.

386
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,960
Then what's the point?

387
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,960
That was supposed to take like 10 seconds, not this whole conversation.

388
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,960
All right, so I gave out the wrong address, and it doesn't resolve.

389
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,960
And it doesn't resolve, but it also doesn't resolve from the Internet next door to it in Cuba,

390
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,960
so I don't think it has to do with being in the United States.

391
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:35,960
Okay.

392
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:36,960
Do we have an IP maybe we can give people?

393
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:37,960
I don't.

394
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,960
Well, didn't you send mail from there?

395
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:40,960
You can send mail, but you can't go to it.

396
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,960
Yeah, but if you sent mail from there, an IP would have had to go along with that mail, correct?

397
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,960
I'll look in the headers of an email I received from Mike, and I'll let you know.

398
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,960
Okay, we'll give out Cuban IPs next week.

399
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,960
If anyone does get it to work, my password is on the Internet.

400
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:53,960
You can find it somehow.

401
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,960
Your password's on the Internet?

402
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,960
There's a photograph of the piece of paper with my password on it,

403
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,960
and if you can find it, you can use my account.

404
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:01,960
Wow, that sounds very insecure of you.

405
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,960
So if you're listening to us by shortwave in Cuba, you can pretend to be Mike.

406
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,960
Trust me, you're not listening to us in shortwave.

407
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,960
By shortwave in Cuba, we tried.

408
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:15,960
Dear OffTheHook, there will be protests to eliminate DRM in front of Apple stores in major cities around the country.

409
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,960
Please let your listeners know they can participate by going to www.defectivebydesign.org.

410
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,960
I hope to see some of you for the one in New York, signed Luke.

411
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,960
Luke, thank you very much for writing to us.

412
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,960
But Luke, guess what you did not include in your email.

413
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:30,960
Yes, you told us about the protests.

414
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,960
You told us where it was going to be.

415
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:33,960
You even gave us a website.

416
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,960
You didn't tell us when it was.

417
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:36,960
I have that information.

418
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,960
So many people send us important things, and they leave out one very vital bit of information.

419
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:41,960
You have the information?

420
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:42,960
I have the information.

421
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:43,960
Okay, thank God.

422
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:44,960
It's a good thing for Luke that I happened to print this out.

423
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:45,960
Because I had more to say about Luke.

424
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:46,960
So, all right.

425
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:47,960
All right.

426
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:48,960
Go ahead.

427
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,960
Well, it's on June 10th, which is this Saturday, from 10 a.m. to 12 p.m. local time,

428
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:58,960
in your choice of city, New York, San Francisco, Boston, Seattle, Chicago, or Plano.

429
00:24:58,960 --> 00:24:59,960
Where?

430
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:00,960
Plano, Texas.

431
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:01,960
Plano?

432
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:02,960
Why Plano, Texas?

433
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:03,960
I don't know.

434
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,960
Because W.R. Grace is there?

435
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:06,960
Maybe.

436
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,960
I think they looked where they had the most subscribers, and somehow Plano snuck up there.

437
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:12,960
So, what are they protesting here?

438
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,960
See, I'm not exactly sure what good a protest of this would do.

439
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,960
I think not using the product would be as good as you can do,

440
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,960
because I think most of their contracts depend on the fact that they have DRM.

441
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,960
And so many other online music stores have it, that if Apple doesn't...

442
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,960
I concur that not using the product is an effective thing to do.

443
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:39,960
However, another effective thing to do is to inform other people that they should not use the product either.

444
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,960
And a good way to do that is to...

445
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,960
What these people do, they're very stylish, these people.

446
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,960
They wear hazmat suits, and they go.

447
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,960
So, if you go on the website, you can be one of the people in the hazmat suits.

448
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,960
It's kind of neat.

449
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:54,960
Gosh, that sounds like a lot of fun for everybody.

450
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,960
I mean, not using their product is a start, but at the same time, there's plenty of people who don't care,

451
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:02,960
or, as Mike said, don't know about these things,

452
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,960
and who will continue to use the product.

453
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,960
The iPod and iTunes are very popular, and a lot of people just use it.

454
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,960
And there's also the chance that mainstream media will show up,

455
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,960
and then more people find out about it that way.

456
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,960
Of course, they get the wrong story, probably.

457
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:17,960
Well, as I said, it's very photogenic.

458
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:18,960
There's photos.

459
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,960
They did this before only in San Francisco, and now they're expanding a little.

460
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:22,960
To Plano?

461
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:23,960
Plano, yes.

462
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,960
They could tell people about that program that lets you get rid of the DRM.

463
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:28,960
Does it still work?

464
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,960
Well, if you have iTunes 5, not 6.

465
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,960
Okay, and a reminder that CarolinaCon is taking place this weekend.

466
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,960
That's right, June 9th and 10th at the Hampton Inn in Raleigh, North Carolina.

467
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,960
If you want more information, this is one of those hacker conferences.

468
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,960
We've heard about them.

469
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,960
Go to carolinacon.org.

470
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:49,960
We should put on a hacker conference.

471
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:50,960
You know, it's a good idea.

472
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,960
Maybe sometime in July in New York City.

473
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:53,960
Really?

474
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,960
Since we gave away tickets to it, I think we might as well have it.

475
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,960
Yeah, July 21st, 22nd, 23rd.

476
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,960
Go to www.hope.net.

477
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:01,960
Let's have it at the Hotel Pennsylvania.

478
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,960
Hotel Pennsylvania, good idea.

479
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:04,960
The first two letters of each word spell out hope.

480
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:05,960
Awesome.

481
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:06,960
Yeah, how about that?

482
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:07,960
I just worked that out now.

483
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:08,960
That's smart.

484
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,960
Okay, now we got a lot of mail about the crazy numbers we played.

485
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,960
It seems to me that calling a phone number to get secret codes

486
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,960
would be a major risk to the spy,

487
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,960
while listening to the radio can be done without easy detection.

488
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,960
My guess is that this is either fake, a way of spreading disinformation,

489
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,960
a way of tracking people who want to listen,

490
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,960
in other words, trying to find enemy code breakers,

491
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,960
or if it is real, it could be something that takes advantage of the A&I

492
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,960
to give out different codes depending on who is calling.

493
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:38,960
Signed, James.

494
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,960
Well, James, so far everybody who's called that number,

495
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,960
the number being the 212 number we called last show,

496
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,960
has gotten the same message.

497
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,960
Now, what's happened since then is very interesting.

498
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,960
The 212 number started out by saying group 415,

499
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,960
spat out a whole bunch of numbers with all kinds of weird voices

500
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,960
and played music on either side of it.

501
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,960
Now, that number has since been disconnected or no longer works,

502
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,960
but another number has popped up.

503
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,960
That number popped up in area code 415,

504
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,960
which is interesting because the last one said group 415,

505
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,960
and the way these numbers pop up is through personal ads on Craigslist

506
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,960
in the particular city.

507
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,960
The first one was in New York, and this one was in San Francisco,

508
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:22,960
and another number popped up.

509
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,960
This one said group 617,

510
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,960
so the theory is that the next one will be somewhere in Boston.

511
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,960
I'd just like to play a few seconds of the second one as it showed up

512
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,960
because we actually have a bit of information

513
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,960
that might prove to be interesting.

514
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:59,960
Group 617.

515
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:02,960
Group 617.

516
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,960
Group 607.

517
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,960
Group 607.

518
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,960
Group 8020.

519
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,960
Group 8020.

520
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,960
Group 21085.

521
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,960
Okay, and it just pretty much continues like this for about five minutes.

522
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:28,960
It plays the music again, and nobody really knows what it means,

523
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,960
but number stations have existed on shortwave for a number of years,

524
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,960
and now they seem to be moving into the world of telephones.

525
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:40,960
It's probably nothing serious.

526
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,960
It's probably someone playing around seeing who can decode the secret message

527
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,960
as opposed to the theories we just heard from one of our listeners,

528
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,960
but it's a fun thing to experiment with.

529
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,960
Well, what made you reach the conclusion that it's nothing to worry about?

530
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,960
Because so many people know about it.

531
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:57,960
I don't know.

532
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,960
It just seems unlikely that it's a serious thing.

533
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:01,960
I want to make one.

534
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:02,960
Do you want to make one?

535
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:03,960
I want to make one.

536
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:04,960
It wouldn't be that hard.

537
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:05,960
Well, I guess.

538
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:06,960
You've got to make one that sounds good, though.

539
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,960
It sounds like this, and this is identical to the first one.

540
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,960
Yes, Bernie?

541
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,960
One of our listeners, I believe it was Charles Geffert,

542
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,960
wrote in and said that he identified the music,

543
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,960
which was the same on both messages,

544
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,960
as being from the 80s band A-Ha,

545
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,960
and I think the tune was Take On Me, is what he's saying.

546
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,960
No, that's definitely not Take On Me.

547
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,960
That's one of my favorite songs.

548
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:34,960
I know it's not Take On Me.

549
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:35,960
It's from the 80s band A-Ha.

550
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:36,960
You know the band.

551
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:37,960
Okay.

552
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,960
They're saying their best hit was Take On Me.

553
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:40,960
Yeah, okay.

554
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,960
But he didn't identify the song, but he did.

555
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,960
Okay, this one is called Little Black Heart from the album Minor Earth Major Sky.

556
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,960
And it's just amazing to me that BAI listeners can pretty much figure out anything.

557
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,960
If we say, what are these strands of music?

558
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:53,960
What do they mean?

559
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,960
Somebody's going to write in and say what they are,

560
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,960
and I think that's just incredible.

561
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,960
Oh, could this be the song itself?

562
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:08,960
I don't know how we managed to do this, but yeah, this sure sounds like it.

563
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,960
But I think we have to suffer through some inane lyrics

564
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,960
before it actually does the magical part.

565
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:24,960
I never saw sunlight burn as bright

566
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:34,960
I never felt darkness the way I feel it tonight

567
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,960
You say it's getting better

568
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,960
You say it's alright

569
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:51,960
I never felt darkness like I feel it tonight

570
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,960
Okay, we're not going to make people sit through all this,

571
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,960
because it's a few minutes long,

572
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,960
but we are going to fade it up when it gets to the part

573
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,960
that sounds like what we heard already on the number stations.

574
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,960
But yeah, we did get a lot of mail on this, a lot of theories.

575
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,960
In fact, one theory, here, listen to this.

576
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,960
This is rather interesting.

577
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:09,960
Six.

578
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:10,960
Six.

579
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:11,960
Six.

580
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:12,960
Six.

581
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:13,960
Six.

582
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,920
No, no, no, that was yesterday.

583
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:17,920
That's true.

584
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:18,920
It was 666 yesterday.

585
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,360
It's not a problem for hope number six either.

586
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,460
It's basically we just spliced together a whole bunch of the sixes.

587
00:32:24,460 --> 00:32:28,240
Some people have said that that six sounds like yours truly.

588
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:34,280
Take a listen to it carefully.

589
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,280
I don't know.

590
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:36,280
Six.

591
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:37,280
Six.

592
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:38,280
Six.

593
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:39,280
Huh?

594
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:40,280
I don't know.

595
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,720
It would be kind of creepy though if that was my voice on there.

596
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,600
Bernie, you did some kind of a scientific test and you concluded that this was not my

597
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:47,600
voice, right?

598
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:54,240
Well, I sampled your voice saying six on one of the previous Off the Hook show and I ran

599
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:59,760
it through a computer program called CoolEdit Pro, which you can generate called a spectrogram,

600
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:06,920
like a color 3D chart of what the voice waveform looks like.

601
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:07,920
I played it back.

602
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:08,920
I looked at it.

603
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:09,920
It didn't look the same.

604
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:16,240
It was back and forth, sideways and backwards and upside down and slow and fast.

605
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,320
When you play it like you do, it does sound like you.

606
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:19,320
Yeah.

607
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:25,320
Actually, I'm going to fade you down here because here comes the music.

608
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:08,600
Okay, so the magical music, the mystery music has been identified thanks to Q-Strategy.

609
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,160
Was that the same person who you quoted before, Bernie?

610
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:12,160
Yes.

611
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,240
Well, he's from Charles and Jeffford, who apparently goes by the name Q-Strategy.

612
00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:17,240
Okay.

613
00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:19,640
And the song is called Little Black Heart by a band called A-Ha, which I believe is

614
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,640
a Norwegian band.

615
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,880
So maybe that tells us something about the person who did this, listening to music from

616
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:31,020
Europe perhaps and speaking German phrases in the Craigslist ads and the song Little

617
00:34:31,020 --> 00:34:34,040
Black Heart from the album Minor Earth, Major Sky.

618
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:39,120
Okay, so we have lots of different theories and Redbird, you have one?

619
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:44,200
Well, no, but a lot of people had actually emailed us suggesting that possibly the numbers

620
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,000
were people from our show, which I mean, it sounds kind of crazy.

621
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,160
I'd like to read that actually because this is such a good theory that I almost believe

622
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:51,160
it.

623
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,760
I'm a shortwave listener and a ham radio operator and I've been interested in spy number stations

624
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,680
ever since I first came across them by accident while tuning through the shortwave radio bands.

625
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:04,860
Your report on the New York telephone number station both last week and this week intrigued

626
00:35:04,860 --> 00:35:05,920
me greatly.

627
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:11,280
I went to Google and typed in the number station's code group number sequence so that I could

628
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,600
find the number station's telephone number.

629
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:15,600
That's a mouthful.

630
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,920
I tried calling it for myself and in doing so I ended up finding out that a large discussion

631
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:24,120
about the mysterious telephone number had been taking place at the Spooks Mail Archive.

632
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,840
At first, the whole telephone number station seemed to be a huge mystery to me and I was

633
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:34,000
absolutely mind boggled by it, but after listening to last week's edition of Off the Wall, some

634
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:38,040
odd peculiarities about the telephone number station started to strike me.

635
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,560
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I am slowly beginning to believe that you and your group

636
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:48,440
of friends at 2600 Magazine and Off the Wall, and I guess Off the Hook too, are behind this

637
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,720
telephone number station and that you are doing it as a tricky way to promote your upcoming

638
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:55,000
Hope No. 6 Hacker Conference.

639
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,480
Here are the things that I pieced together to come to this conclusion.

640
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:03,920
One of the main members of your Off the Hook crew is the venerable Bernie S., who is not

641
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,720
only an avid shortwave listener, a scanner enthusiast, and a technician class ham radio

642
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:09,720
operator.

643
00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:11,920
He gives you a call sign, Bernie.

644
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:12,920
Should I give that?

645
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:13,920
Go ahead.

646
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:14,920
N-3-K-O-W.

647
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:21,000
But he is also the person who speaks on panels at your Hope Conferences about spy number

648
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,000
stations.

649
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,000
Do you dispute any of those charges?

650
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:29,440
Well, at the last Hope No. 5, the 5th Hope, I did play some excerpts from some spy radio

651
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,960
stations with the numbers just like that.

652
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,920
As a result, Bernie S. is essentially an expert about spy number stations and could easily

653
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,880
help you set one up with the proper format so that it would sound authentic.

654
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:41,880
I agree.

655
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,600
Fortunately, it didn't happen, but it would be nice.

656
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:45,600
But it gets better.

657
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:46,600
It gets better.

658
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,840
You happen to have a reputation as a bit of a phone freaker, and I bet that you would

659
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,720
have absolutely no problem obtaining an unlisted New York City telephone number.

660
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:57,360
Yeah, that's pretty easy.

661
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,480
And setting up the open source asterisk PBX system on it.

662
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,040
Well, Mike, that's something you'd be good at, right?

663
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,880
In fact, the number, the fact that it is an asterisk PBX system that is being used leads

664
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,960
me even more to believe that it is the 2600 gang that is behind it because the hacker

665
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,520
community is well known for championing open source software.

666
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,080
In addition, it is no secret that you and most of the Off the Hook crew live in the

667
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,080
New York area.

668
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,800
So I think the fact that this number station is hosted on a New York City telephone number

669
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:24,800
is no coincidence.

670
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,880
Ah, but it's not the second number hosted in San Francisco, and none of us are there

671
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:29,880
right now.

672
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:30,880
So you think.

673
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,360
Well, we have pretty good microphones if they are.

674
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:34,360
We do have friends in San Francisco.

675
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:35,360
We do.

676
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,360
We do.

677
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,360
We have plenty of friends.

678
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:38,360
We weren't supposed to talk about them, but okay.

679
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,360
Continuing here, as you mentioned in the latest Off the Wall show, I too thought that the

680
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,240
number six as played back by the number station sounded like your voice.

681
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:49,480
While I have no way of proving this, I have a feeling that all of the different spoken

682
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,920
numbers used by the number station were sampled from the audio archives of your Off the Hook

683
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,320
radio show, and that all of the numbers used by the number station were actually once said

684
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:03,800
over the radio show by members of the Off the Hook crew or guests on the show.

685
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,680
Some of the numbers in the number station's recordings sounded like they were said in

686
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:07,920
foreign accents.

687
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,960
Those numbers could have been sampled from the voices of several of Off the Hook's many

688
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,200
European hacker guests that have come on the show over the years.

689
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,580
Also, I feel the fact that it is your voice that is saying the number six also has great

690
00:38:18,580 --> 00:38:21,740
significance because the HOPE conference that is coming up later this summer will

691
00:38:21,740 --> 00:38:22,740
be HOPE number six.

692
00:38:22,740 --> 00:38:26,620
You know, I wish we had this kind of marketing savvy here.

693
00:38:26,620 --> 00:38:30,300
We should have done something yesterday with 666, you know, promoting HOPE number six.

694
00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:33,420
It's not like we're ever going to get another chance to do that, huh?

695
00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:34,420
Man.

696
00:38:34,420 --> 00:38:35,420
All right.

697
00:38:35,420 --> 00:38:40,100
Continuing here, the last big thing that I heard that really tipped me off into thinking

698
00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:45,580
that it was you behind this whole telephone number station was what you said after playing

699
00:38:45,580 --> 00:38:48,940
the recording of it over the air on Off the Wall last Tuesday.

700
00:38:48,940 --> 00:38:49,940
Six.

701
00:38:49,940 --> 00:38:50,940
Six.

702
00:38:50,940 --> 00:38:51,940
No, not that.

703
00:38:51,940 --> 00:38:55,060
You told the audience you never know where little hints and messages and secrets will

704
00:38:55,060 --> 00:38:56,060
pop up.

705
00:38:56,060 --> 00:38:57,060
They could be any place.

706
00:38:57,060 --> 00:38:58,900
That sounds very suspicious to me, Emanuel.

707
00:38:58,900 --> 00:38:59,900
Very suspicious.

708
00:38:59,900 --> 00:39:05,980
It sounds to me like you are leading your entire listening audience on and that you

709
00:39:05,980 --> 00:39:10,460
will be dropping us tiny little clues about the number station messages, number station

710
00:39:10,460 --> 00:39:11,460
messages, true meaning.

711
00:39:11,460 --> 00:39:13,220
It should be a number station's message.

712
00:39:13,220 --> 00:39:14,860
Yeah, that should be it.

713
00:39:14,860 --> 00:39:18,700
Over time, in many assorted places, including your radio shows in the form of updates on

714
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:23,060
the story and perhaps through your websites, blogs, and magazines as well, you will keep

715
00:39:23,060 --> 00:39:27,580
feeding us little clues to this mystery and generating more and more interest until finally,

716
00:39:27,580 --> 00:39:31,180
right before the HOPE conference this summer, you will reveal the secret message as being

717
00:39:31,180 --> 00:39:35,680
something corny like, you should all attend the HOPE number six conference.

718
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,460
And that you and your friends were behind the telephone number station all along.

719
00:39:39,460 --> 00:39:40,460
He caught us.

720
00:39:40,460 --> 00:39:44,260
Well, just to clarify, the secret message that appeared on Off the Wall was actually

721
00:39:44,260 --> 00:39:49,220
a backwards message and it was a contest to win a couple of free tickets for HOPE number

722
00:39:49,220 --> 00:39:50,660
six.

723
00:39:50,660 --> 00:39:53,400
And some people were able to get that pretty quickly, in fact.

724
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,780
You can see if there's a conference in progress by looking at the main 2600.com page and seeing

725
00:39:57,780 --> 00:40:01,260
if you see George W. Bush flashing behind the HOPE number six logo.

726
00:40:01,260 --> 00:40:03,860
And if he's flashing, that means it's a contest in progress.

727
00:40:03,860 --> 00:40:06,140
You have to find it and you have to solve it.

728
00:40:06,140 --> 00:40:07,140
So that's what that was.

729
00:40:07,140 --> 00:40:09,220
That was what that secret message was.

730
00:40:09,220 --> 00:40:12,340
Finishing up the letter, that's my theory about your New York telephone number station

731
00:40:12,340 --> 00:40:15,900
As to why the phone number to the telephone number station was originally posted on Craigslist

732
00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:19,380
and not on one of your own websites, the answer to that is obvious.

733
00:40:19,380 --> 00:40:23,120
Emanuel, considering the fact that you run the HOPE conference's social engineering panel

734
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:28,760
every year, it is no doubt that you have some real talent as to misdirecting people and

735
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,900
pulling the wool over people's eyes.

736
00:40:30,900 --> 00:40:35,380
I think that posting a number on Craigslist, then reporting it on your radio shows like

737
00:40:35,380 --> 00:40:39,360
it's some bizarre mystery and then pretending to act horrified when someone mentioned to

738
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,600
you that it was your voice on the recording for the number six was all your attempt to

739
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,120
both make it sound like 2600 was not involved with the telephone number station, but at

740
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,920
the same time, promote its existence to all of you off the hook and off the wall listeners

741
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,280
so that you could get a large targeted audience interested in the number station mystery so

742
00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:00,480
that you can string them all along with little clues, suck them in and then shock them all

743
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,360
when you reveal that it was all a ruse to promote HOPE number six.

744
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:08,000
In other words, you are trying to social engineer your entire listening audience to become interested

745
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,000
in your HOPE conference.

746
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,920
I've got to say, you know, if that was the case, I'd be too scared to reveal it now.

747
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,120
If my theory that this is all some kind of bizarre promotion for HOPE is correct, then

748
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,760
I doubt that you would ever tell me so because I could then possibly blow the lid on the

749
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,000
whole little game you were playing with your audience.

750
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,200
But the shadow knows what you're really up to, Emmanuel.

751
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:26,200
The shadow knows.

752
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,280
And when you and Bernie S. and the Off the Hook crew finally reveal what your little

753
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,400
telephone number station actually is to your listening audience, I will be able to say

754
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,920
I told you so, signed, Dangerous Dan.

755
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:38,440
That's really good, though.

756
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:39,440
It is really good.

757
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:40,600
And you almost have me believing it.

758
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,680
But Dangerous Dan, I swear to you, I had nothing to do with this.

759
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,540
I'm as mystified as anybody.

760
00:41:45,540 --> 00:41:48,840
The only thing I have been able to figure out from this thing, you heard series of five

761
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,920
numbers being said over and over again.

762
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,680
I'm convinced that it's actually a series of three numbers.

763
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:54,680
Why?

764
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:59,000
Because almost every third number is a zero except for a couple where it's a one.

765
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,640
And both sets of numbers are divisible by three, not by five.

766
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,600
Plus, number stations, as a rule, say five numbers, repeat five numbers, and then say

767
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,280
the next five numbers, repeat five numbers.

768
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,640
Doesn't mean that that's the length of the message or anything like that.

769
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:17,400
I just want to say that if my voice is being used on this, I plan to sue.

770
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,120
Who are you going to sue?

771
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,200
Well, if you did it, I'll sue you because you're doing it to promulgate hope.

772
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,600
I mean, I'm sure there's a minimum of 400 bucks for appearing on a radio commercial

773
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:28,600
or something.

774
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,520
Bernie, I'd like you to answer these accusations as well.

775
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,880
But first, I'm going to give out the phone number, 212-209-2900, we'll be taking your

776
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,280
phone calls from wherever you happen to be in the world, country code one if you're overseas.

777
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,280
Bernie, any response to that?

778
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,600
I must say, it was a brilliant conspiracy theory.

779
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:51,080
But I am responsible for bringing the information about this weird number station phone number

780
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:52,400
to Off The Hook.

781
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:53,960
And I'm a member of the Spooks mailing list.

782
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:55,200
Yeah, that's curious, isn't it, Bernie?

783
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,880
You brought it to our attention.

784
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:57,880
I did bring it to your attention.

785
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,680
I'm a member of the Spooks mailing list, and I regularly listen to shortwave and occasionally

786
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:02,680
hear shortwave number station.

787
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:07,480
So I'm on the mailing list, and I saw the discussion on there, and I called the number

788
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:08,480
and I thought it was intriguing.

789
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:13,400
So then I forwarded that information to you all on the list, and that's why we ended up

790
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:14,400
talking about it.

791
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:15,400
Let me just clarify.

792
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:16,400
I have nothing to do with it.

793
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:17,400
Let me just clarify one thing.

794
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,360
When I deny that we're involved in this, I'm really only denying that I'm involved in this.

795
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,560
I don't really know what other people around me are involved in.

796
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:30,240
So for all I know, the rest of you could have conspired, used my voice, or not used my voice

797
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:33,720
as the case may be, and kept me in the dark.

798
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:37,320
I'm denying my role in this.

799
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:38,600
I'm clean.

800
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,040
But I don't know about the others.

801
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:42,240
And that's the thing with these number stations.

802
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:43,760
You wind up not trusting anybody.

803
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:49,040
Now, Bernie, has anybody ever managed to translate what a number station was actually saying?

804
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:50,040
Yes.

805
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:55,480
From Cuba, of all places, just a few years ago, I think about three, four years ago.

806
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,120
And I should also point out the fact that we were just in Cuba also should not be seen

807
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:00,120
as anything suspicious.

808
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:01,120
No.

809
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:02,120
No connection whatsoever.

810
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:03,120
All right.

811
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,640
But it's been well known that some of these number station transmissions on shortwave

812
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:11,640
originate from the island of Cuba, and people have triangulated the signals and that's where

813
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:12,640
they're coming from.

814
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,680
And occasionally they goof up, and the audio from Radio Havana plays in the background

815
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:17,960
and it's like, whoops.

816
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:19,360
Stuff like that.

817
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:28,120
Some alleged Cuban spies were detained in Miami, and they had in their possession one-time

818
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:40,160
pads or diskettes with lists of numbers used as a key against the broadcast numbers coming

819
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:41,480
from a Cuban station.

820
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:47,200
And the FBI allegedly was able to match up and decode some messages.

821
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:52,320
They never released the content of that, but that was alleged by the U.S. Attorney's Office.

822
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,520
And you can just do a search for Cuban spies, Miami, radio, shortwave on a search engine.

823
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:00,560
These numbers are not typical of a number station because there aren't so many zeros

824
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:01,560
normally.

825
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,400
Am I correct in saying that?

826
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,760
Typically, these are one-time pad, it's a one-time pad encryption method.

827
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:13,080
So you can't decrypt them unless you have the key, you're not going to be able to do

828
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:14,080
it.

829
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:15,080
It's theoretically the most secure.

830
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,080
It changes every time.

831
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:21,160
So what I'm saying is, when number stations are broadcast in the past, was there a pattern

832
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,080
such as every third digit being a zero?

833
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,120
Was there anything ever like that?

834
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:26,880
I've never heard of that.

835
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,200
That's why I think this is different in some way.

836
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:30,200
Yeah.

837
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,440
Theoretically, the one-time pad form of encryption is the most secure, and it would be a completely

838
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,400
random sequence if it was done correctly.

839
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,280
So there would be no patterns like what you mentioned.

840
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:40,280
All right.

841
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,840
212-209-2900 is our phone number.

842
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,520
Why don't we go to the telephones and talk to our listeners for the first time in quite

843
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,520
a while since we didn't do it during the fundraiser either?

844
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:49,520
Let's.

845
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:50,520
All right.

846
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:51,520
Let's do that.

847
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:52,520
Let's go over here and see who's out there.

848
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:53,520
Good evening.

849
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:54,520
You're on the air.

850
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:55,520
Hello.

851
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:56,520
Hi.

852
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:57,520
How are you?

853
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:58,520
Yeah.

854
00:45:58,520 --> 00:45:59,520
You're talking about Cuba.

855
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:00,520
Yeah.

856
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:01,520
We're talking about Cuba, among other things.

857
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:02,520
Yeah.

858
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:03,520
But I think a bunch of your listeners should go to Cuba, and I will pay for them because

859
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:04,520
your station's a bunch of communists and belong in Cuba.

860
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:05,520
Oh, wait.

861
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:06,520
Wait.

862
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:07,520
Don't go away.

863
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,520
I wanted to talk about this some more.

864
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:11,520
Oh.

865
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:13,200
Yeah.

866
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:14,200
He said that like he was angry.

867
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:15,200
Did you think he was really angry?

868
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:16,200
Yeah.

869
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:17,200
I think he was being generous.

870
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:18,200
Thank you, sir.

871
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:19,200
Thank you for offering that.

872
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:20,200
That's a good deal.

873
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:21,200
Yeah.

874
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:22,200
Do we have caller ID?

875
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:23,600
We can trace the number and bill him for all the tickets for all the listeners he said.

876
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,560
Did he say all the listeners or only some of the listeners?

877
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:26,560
Some of our listeners.

878
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,360
I don't think it'd be right for him to send those who don't want to go to Cuba to Cuba.

879
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:30,360
Well, okay.

880
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:31,360
Fine.

881
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,160
Those listeners who do want to go to Cuba, they can meet us at a certain time.

882
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:34,960
Now, the thing is, though, where are they going to go from?

883
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,360
Because technically, sir, I know you're not suggesting that people should break the law

884
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:39,360
and go to Cuba illegally.

885
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,920
So we're going to have to fill out forms and get them to qualify in some way.

886
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,160
Which is getting harder and harder.

887
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:46,520
It is getting harder and harder.

888
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,880
We'll have all that information on a numbers station sometime in the next few weeks.

889
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,720
You know, actually, I think your wish can be granted only when we change our policy

890
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:57,280
towards the country, you know, and allow people to go there.

891
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:58,280
And then, sir-

892
00:46:58,280 --> 00:46:59,280
Whose policy?

893
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:00,280
The United States policy.

894
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:01,280
Oh, their policy.

895
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:02,280
Their policy.

896
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:03,280
Yeah.

897
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:04,280
Then we can, you know, your wish will come true.

898
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:05,280
We'll contact you then.

899
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,720
And we can all go to Cuba and hang out and watch all the old cars go by.

900
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:10,080
Okay, let's take another phone call.

901
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:11,080
Good evening.

902
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:12,080
You're on the air.

903
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:13,080
Go ahead.

904
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:14,080
Yes.

905
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:15,080
Yes, I am.

906
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:16,080
Great show, guys.

907
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,840
But I'm still waiting for my premium.

908
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:19,840
I'm sorry.

909
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:20,840
Say that again?

910
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:21,840
I'm still waiting for my premium.

911
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:22,840
You're waiting for your premium?

912
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:23,840
Yes.

913
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:24,840
For the-

914
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:25,840
For the recent fundraiser?

915
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:26,840
Yeah.

916
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:27,840
TV be gone.

917
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:28,840
You haven't gotten your TV be gone yet?

918
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:29,840
Nope.

919
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:30,840
You definitely should have.

920
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:31,840
Nope.

921
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:32,840
Okay.

922
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:33,840
All right.

923
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:34,840
What I'd like you to do then is send us an email.

924
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:35,840
OTH at 2600.com.

925
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:36,840
Uh-huh.

926
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,480
And we'll send you the information that you pledged with.

927
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:40,480
Okay.

928
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,880
And we'll track you down, and we'll figure it out, and we'll get that to you.

929
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:43,880
We promise.

930
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:44,880
I appreciate that.

931
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:45,880
All right.

932
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:46,880
Good show.

933
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:47,880
Good show, guys.

934
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:48,880
All right.

935
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:49,880
Sorry for the inconvenience.

936
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:50,880
All right.

937
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:51,880
All right.

938
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:52,880
These things happen, though.

939
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:53,880
We have so many people calling in and pledging, and so many things flying around.

940
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:54,880
Sometimes we lose track of people, but we always try to fix it.

941
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:55,880
And usually we do.

942
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:56,880
Let's take another phone call.

943
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:57,880
212-209-2900.

944
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:58,880
Good evening.

945
00:47:58,880 --> 00:47:59,880
You're on the air.

946
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:00,880
Go ahead.

947
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:01,880
Hello.

948
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:02,880
Yes.

949
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:03,880
What's on your mind?

950
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:04,880
Yeah, good show.

951
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:05,880
I enjoy your show.

952
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:06,920
Thank you.

953
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:07,920
You know, it's funny.

954
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,920
I was laughing at that man who called and hung up because you mentioned Cuba.

955
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:13,920
Yeah.

956
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:14,920
All we did was mention Cuba.

957
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:15,920
We didn't even say anything political.

958
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:16,920
I know.

959
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:17,920
I know.

960
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:18,920
I know that.

961
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:24,920
But the thing that I find funny, why he listen to this station if he don't like this station?

962
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:26,920
Because he says your station is not good.

963
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:28,920
Oh, lots of people listen to us who hate us.

964
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,920
I mean, you know, we encourage people who don't like us to listen to us, because then

965
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,920
they're wasting their time, I guess.

966
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:35,960
Oh, man.

967
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:36,960
That's so funny.

968
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,960
I'm like, why is he listening to me hate?

969
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:39,960
That's funny.

970
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:40,960
Yes.

971
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:41,960
But anyway, keep up the good show.

972
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:42,960
Thank you very much.

973
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:43,960
All right.

974
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:44,960
Take care.

975
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:45,960
And good evening.

976
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:46,960
You're on the air.

977
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:47,960
Hello?

978
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:48,960
Yes, go ahead.

979
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:49,960
Speak up.

980
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:50,960
What are you calling from?

981
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:51,960
A tunnel?

982
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:52,960
Turn down the radio.

983
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:53,960
Yeah, please.

984
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:54,960
Okay.

985
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,960
Now, I didn't catch the first two to three minutes of the show.

986
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,960
Sir, whatever phone you're calling from, you really need an upgrade.

987
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:01,960
I'm back now.

988
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:02,960
Okay.

989
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:03,960
I don't know if you were ever here.

990
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,000
But, okay.

991
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:06,000
Keep trying.

992
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:07,000
Can you hear me now?

993
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,000
Well, I hear something.

994
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:09,000
All right.

995
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:10,000
Let's hear what you have to say.

996
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,000
Let's start over.

997
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:18,000
I missed the first few moments of the show talking about the phone company.

998
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,000
So, I have been...

999
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,000
You must be saying something against the phone company, because they're sure trying to keep

1000
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,000
you from saying it.

1001
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:26,000
You can't hear me?

1002
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:27,000
I can hear...

1003
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,000
Well, you're sort of bouncing in and out.

1004
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:30,000
Tell us.

1005
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:31,000
What kind of phone are you using?

1006
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,000
I'm calling from a cell phone.

1007
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,000
What company are you using?

1008
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,040
I'm using Singular.

1009
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:36,040
Hmm.

1010
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:37,040
Bad signal, huh?

1011
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:38,040
All right.

1012
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:39,040
It's better now.

1013
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:40,040
Much better now.

1014
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:41,040
Okay.

1015
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,040
Well, I wanted to know what you were talking about with the...

1016
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:47,040
Is that for that long-distance tax from the 1800s?

1017
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:48,040
Oh, the tax.

1018
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,040
The federal excise tax on phone bills, yes.

1019
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:52,040
Yes.

1020
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:56,040
And I can get a refund from the phone company going back how far?

1021
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:00,040
Well, according to the articles I've read, first of all, you don't get the refund from

1022
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,040
the phone company.

1023
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:05,080
You get it from the U.S. government, particularly the Treasury Department, and specifically

1024
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:06,080
the IRS.

1025
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:11,080
And one thing that strikes me as odd in all the articles I've read, and if somebody's

1026
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,080
got some different news, I hope to hear it, is that it's going to be on your income tax

1027
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:20,080
return that you file for only the last three years of this tax.

1028
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:27,080
So, tax that you've paid in the past is lost, gone, to the coffers of the United States

1029
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,080
with no corporate recourse.

1030
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:30,080
Pardon?

1031
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,120
All the tax I've paid is lost anyway.

1032
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,120
Well, that may be true anyway, but that's a political thing, but I'm saying...

1033
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,120
That's a rather cynical view there.

1034
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:42,120
I'm saying that the most you'll be able to get back of this excise tax is three years

1035
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:46,120
worth, according to the articles I've read, and I have nothing that says any different

1036
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:47,120
from that.

1037
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,120
They either say nothing about it, or they say only the last three years worth.

1038
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:50,120
All right.

1039
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:51,120
Thanks for your call.

1040
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:52,120
Let's move on to another one.

1041
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:53,120
Good evening.

1042
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:54,120
You're on the air.

1043
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:55,120
Oh, what have we here?

1044
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:56,120
Hello?

1045
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:57,120
Yes, go ahead.

1046
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,120
You're on the air.

1047
00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:59,120
Hi.

1048
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:06,160
So, I had an AT&T calling card since 1993, and at some point during the merger between

1049
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:11,160
AT&T and SBC, they said they were getting rid of this particular type of calling card.

1050
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:17,160
So, I called up AT&T and inquired about it, and they said that they'd canceled it in error

1051
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,160
and restarted the service.

1052
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:26,160
Then, I called another representative a couple days later, and she basically told me that

1053
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:32,200
the card had been canceled again, but it still functions, and I am getting a $4 bill for

1054
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:37,200
it every month, but I'm making tons of phone calls on it, and it still works.

1055
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:41,200
So, you're saying you're not getting charged for the phone calls, just paying $4 a month?

1056
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,200
Yeah, for the card itself, but not getting charged for the phone calls at all.

1057
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,200
If this keeps up for a few months, please email us the number of that card.

1058
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,200
No, I don't think we want to get involved in yet another scheme here.

1059
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,200
You don't want to end up with a bill, though, at the end of all this, when they realize

1060
00:51:55,240 --> 00:51:56,240
they've made a mistake?

1061
00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:57,240
That bill is probably going someplace.

1062
00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:02,240
Obviously, it's not the same as the card, which they think you're not using at all.

1063
00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:06,240
You don't get any kind of itemization that says zeros next to it or anything like that?

1064
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:07,240
Nothing.

1065
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:10,240
You might want to be careful, because you might end up with a huge bill at the end of

1066
00:52:10,240 --> 00:52:12,240
the year, or at the end of something, when they realize it.

1067
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:16,240
But then again, it's not because of any fraud on his part.

1068
00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:19,240
He's not paying the bill because they're not sending him the bill, and they're not turning

1069
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:20,240
off the service.

1070
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:22,240
So, obviously, it's a mistake of some sort.

1071
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,280
I wouldn't go around bragging about it, though, because then they might try and track you

1072
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,280
down and say that you're aware of the situation.

1073
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,280
It's very hard for them to collect, say, a year's worth of phone bills if they have neglected

1074
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:33,280
to send it to you, though.

1075
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:37,280
Yeah, despite my jokes, I think going crazy on the phone card may not be a good idea.

1076
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,280
They may say, well, you knew you had a phone card.

1077
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,280
You knew you'd have to pay for it someday.

1078
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,280
So, you know, don't call the Pope.

1079
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,280
Yeah, it's like when I had the precursor to T-Mobile.

1080
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:50,280
It was at VoiceStream, where they weren't billing for incoming calls in Europe at all.

1081
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,320
And I used that, and then a year later, they said, okay, we've figured out the system now,

1082
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,320
because they had a new computer system, and we're going to start billing for incoming

1083
00:52:58,320 --> 00:52:59,320
calls now.

1084
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:03,320
For you people who have used this, consider it a gift, and we're going to crack down now.

1085
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:07,320
So, you know, they knew that they wouldn't be able to collect on all of the rightful

1086
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:08,320
charges.

1087
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,320
Okay, let's see if we have time for a couple more.

1088
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:11,320
Good evening.

1089
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:12,320
You're on the air.

1090
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:13,320
Yes, hello.

1091
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:14,320
Hi, how are you?

1092
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:18,320
I wanted to ask you, cable vision, the cable vision in the town of Long Island, I guess

1093
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:19,320
it's the same.

1094
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:24,360
I have a telephone program through that, and, you know, my telephone, the phone I'm on,

1095
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,360
actually, and it sounds very hollow, because I believe their phone service works through

1096
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:29,360
the internet.

1097
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:30,360
Can you explain why that is?

1098
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,360
Well, the internet is rather hollow.

1099
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,360
It's very echoey, and no, that's not the reason.

1100
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:39,360
You're using a voice over IP service, and it's very obvious from our end that you are,

1101
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,360
and it's just, it's poor data compression, and...

1102
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,360
I thought cable vision, though, had mastered this.

1103
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:48,360
I thought they were doing better than just your fly-by-night voice over IP operations.

1104
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,400
Well, you're listening to it right now.

1105
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:51,400
They're obviously not.

1106
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:52,400
I'm surprised.

1107
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:56,400
Yeah, I also get, like, an echo quite often, you know, and I can hear myself hear myself

1108
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:57,400
type of thing.

1109
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:58,400
Yeah, have you complained to them?

1110
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:03,400
Yeah, yeah, but, you know, you don't get a lot of results fast with the big companies,

1111
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:04,400
so...

1112
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,400
Well, you should come on back to a wired phone of some sort.

1113
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,400
Yeah, I didn't want to switch.

1114
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:15,400
I also wanted to ask you, what does the HOPE Conference have to offer a, let's say, a layman?

1115
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,400
A layman, many things, many things.

1116
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,440
It's not all technical talk.

1117
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,440
We have all kinds of discussions about...

1118
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,440
Oh, gosh, where do I start?

1119
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,440
Phone systems and open-source software, old computers.

1120
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:35,440
There's lectures ranging from, you know, beginners to experts on various subjects.

1121
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,440
Correction, we will be having a lecture on free software.

1122
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,440
Oh, well, that too, and maybe the difference between the two.

1123
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:42,440
And it's how many days?

1124
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:43,440
Three, right?

1125
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:44,440
Three days.

1126
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:45,440
There's a film festival.

1127
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,480
And if nothing else, you can see a lot of rather interesting films

1128
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,480
ranging from the completely esoteric to the rather mainstream

1129
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:58,480
dealing in some way with hacking, telephones, computers, and their influence on our lives.

1130
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:02,480
Yeah, and we're working on network connection that's faster than ever.

1131
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:06,480
We're working on having Segways to play with.

1132
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:10,480
It's just going to be basically an amusement park filled with fun

1133
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:14,480
for people remotely interested in technology in any form.

1134
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,520
And Arsene, maybe you have a couple of ideas

1135
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,520
about what kind of films we'll be playing because you're running that.

1136
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,520
Well, we're doing sort of clips, interesting clips.

1137
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:31,520
I can confirm that pretty much every hacker-created, hacker-produced TV show,

1138
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,520
online TV show is going to be there in one form or another.

1139
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:38,520
And then in the evening, we're going to play feature-length documentaries

1140
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:40,520
and all sorts of interesting stuff.

1141
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:41,520
And it's not just computers.

1142
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:45,560
There's some political stuff, just some funny stuff, cartoons.

1143
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,560
Yeah, so it's kind of for everyone.

1144
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,560
We're going to have Jell-O Biafra and Kevin Mitnick again,

1145
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,560
and all sorts of speaker list is going to be released very soon.

1146
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:55,560
And we have Richard Stallman giving one of the keynotes.

1147
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:57,560
It's going to be really interesting.

1148
00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:59,560
You'll learn a lot no matter what level you're at.

1149
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,560
Are you able to bring a cassette recorder, a video recorder, or not?

1150
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:04,560
Of course. Yeah, sure.

1151
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,560
Okay. One more thing, Emmanuel, I've received discs.

1152
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:12,600
I'm committed to the $100 donation.

1153
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,600
And I received a T-shirt, but I haven't sent you anything.

1154
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:16,600
But I will send.

1155
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:20,600
Oh, which pledge driver are we talking about?

1156
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,600
The one before this, I believe, this past one.

1157
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:26,600
Okay. Well, yes, please, pay us.

1158
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:27,600
See, sometimes it works the other way, too,

1159
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:29,600
and we send people things who haven't paid us.

1160
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:31,600
Yeah, that's what I'm saying happened.

1161
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:34,600
No, I didn't pay you. You paid me.

1162
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,600
But I got my end. You'll get my end.

1163
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:38,640
I hope so. I hope so.

1164
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,640
Okay. I'm mentioning so you can catch a technical glitch

1165
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:43,640
because I don't want to see everything go out the window

1166
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:44,640
and not come in for you.

1167
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:45,640
Yeah, maybe you could send us an email, too,

1168
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:47,640
so we don't send you another one, which might happen.

1169
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:49,640
This whole station is like a technical glitch.

1170
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,640
Yeah, but this is our fault if we're sending people things

1171
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:53,640
that they didn't pay for yet.

1172
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:54,640
But we'll see.

1173
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:55,640
Just don't tell.

1174
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:56,640
Yeah, okay. Thanks for your call.

1175
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:57,640
Thanks for your honesty.

1176
00:56:57,640 --> 00:56:59,640
And thanks, everybody, for listening

1177
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:00,640
because we're out of time.

1178
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:03,640
We're back again next week with another action-packed edition.

1179
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,640
And maybe there'll be another number station by then.

1180
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,680
Till then, it's Manuel Goldstein.

1181
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,680
Have yourselves a good night.

1182
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:13,680
Going out to the late Desmond Decker.

1183
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,680
See you next week. Have a good week.

1184
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,680
Oh, oh, seven

1185
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,680
Oh, oh, seven

1186
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,680
At Ocean Eleven

1187
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,720
And now rude boys a go wheel

1188
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:41,720
Cause them out a jail

1189
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,720
Rude boys cannot deal

1190
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:51,720
Cause them must get veal

1191
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:55,720
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh

1192
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:57,720
Them a loot, them a shoot, them a wheel

1193
00:57:57,720 --> 00:57:59,720
A shanty town

1194
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:01,760
Them a loot, them a shoot, them a wheel

1195
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:03,760
A shanty town

1196
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:06,760
Rude boys a bump up your shoulder

1197
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,760
A shanty town

1198
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:11,760
Rude boys a bump up your tongue

1199
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:13,760
A shanty town

1200
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:36,720
Oh, oh, seven

1201
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:41,720
Oh, oh, seven

1202
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:46,720
At Ocean Eleven

1203
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,720
And now rude boys a go wheel

1204
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:55,720
Cause them out a jail

1205
00:58:55,720 --> 00:59:05,720
Good boys cannot fail, cause they must head there

1206
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,720
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh

1207
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:13,720
Dem a loot, dem a shoot, dem a wail, shanty town

1208
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:18,720
Dem a loot, dem a shoot, dem a wail, shanty town

1209
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:23,720
Good boy dey pa-pa patient, shanty town

1210
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:28,720
Good boy dey pa-pa patient, shanty town

1211
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:33,720
Bodies get taller, shanty town

1212
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:38,720
Soldier get longer, shanty town

1213
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:43,720
Good boy dey weep and a wail, shanty town

1214
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:48,720
Good boy dey weep and a wail, shanty town

1215
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:53,720
Haha, yeah, I love, I love, uh, the person, uh,

1216
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:56,720
Off the hook, these guys are off the chain, I mean hook

1217
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,720
Anyway, I like that show anyway, and uh