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And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York, where if we can get one announcement

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working, I guess that we're ahead of the game.

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It's seven o'clock.

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Time once again for Off The Hook.

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The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall, my dog's shaming, now I can't

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make a call.

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We couldn't get much worse, but if they could they would.

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Von Diddley Bonk for the best, expect the worst.

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I hope that's understood.

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Von Diddley Bonk.

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I'm not going to say a word.

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Theme sounds fine this week, doesn't it?

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Better than ever.

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Yeah, there's nothing wrong with the theme.

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It's a new style of music that relies on taking little bits out.

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Very modern.

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Oh my God.

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It's like a Star Trek episode.

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You know, the thing that bugs me the most, you know, I'm going to do this, I don't care,

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because it doesn't matter anymore.

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These CD players are manufactured by a company called Denon, D-E-N-O-N.

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It's the D-N-9-6-1-F-A.

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If you're ever in a situation where you feel you want to get a CD player, don't get that

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one.

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They've caused nothing but grief since the first time I've ever seen them, and this is

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what they do.

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They either don't accept CDs.

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It stopped.

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They do that when you put them in.

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They're supposed to be the best CD players ever, too, for broadcasters.

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I don't know.

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I think a Walkman would have done a lot better.

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Anyway, off the hook, enough complaining for today.

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Emmanuel here.

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We've got Jim.

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We've got Mike.

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We've got Redbird, and especially thrown in from Holland, we've got Hanneke and Sascha.

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How are you guys doing?

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Oh, fine.

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Indeed, we came here especially for the radio show.

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Well, you're tearing up the street, like, you know, it's the most important thing in

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the world to get here in time.

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Absolutely.

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Well, you're here for a couple of days, wandering around New York City.

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Last we talked, I think, well, last we saw each other was in Berlin after the Chaos Congress,

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and at that point, we were announcing the What The Hack conference.

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Yes, and What The Hack is still going on.

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That's in Holland this summer?

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That's in Holland.

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It's the last weekend of July.

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It's four days.

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It's July 28 to 31, and it's going to be really, really cool.

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We have a lot of people from the U.S. who already said that they will be coming, and

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we expect a lot of people from all over Europe.

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Well, of course, the theme is hacking, technology, et cetera, but we also want to make it a little

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bit broader this time.

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So basically, anybody who is into the future of the country, the future of the world, things

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like privacy.

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I'm getting a bit lost here.

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Well, you're Dutch, I guess that's to be expected.

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I'm also jet-lagged.

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Well, that was two days ago.

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I'm still jet-lagged.

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Any fun experiences with Homeland Security coming in?

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Oh, you know, we forgot to call Bernie.

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Oh, my goodness.

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You tell us about Homeland Security, and I'm going to get Bernie on the phone.

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The interesting thing with Homeland Security is that after we asked them some questions

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about the fingerprinting, which is now mandatory, told us basically to blame an Englishman named

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Henry Folt, who came up with fingerprinting in the first place, which was pretty okay.

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They were actually really friendly this time.

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It's the first time I've ever had really friendly DHS or INS people actually helpful.

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How did they help you, pray tell?

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How did they help get you into the country without causing anger or annoyance, et cetera?

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Well, the guy had to help me with manually putting my finger on the thing to read it

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about three times per finger, because the thing couldn't read it.

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And then he said, oh, it's okay, everybody's different, don't worry about it.

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And then he took a picture with a webcam-like device, so I smiled, and he smiled back.

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So you guys actually got to use the fingerprint devices?

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Yeah.

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I don't think we ever talked to anybody.

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We were made to use them.

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Well, yeah.

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You didn't ask to use them.

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You were told.

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Nope.

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But did anybody have trouble understanding the instructions of placing your finger here?

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No, the instructions are there in cartoon form, kind of, or pictograms, and in like

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six, seven languages.

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Everything in this country is in cartoon form.

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Yeah, true.

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That's how we learn to read and everything.

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But they basically take your finger and put it on a machine, so it's, yeah.

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Wow.

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Bernie S. joins us now from Philadelphia.

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Hi, Bernie.

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Sorry, we forgot to call you.

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Oh, and we also forgot to put your thing on.

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Hi there.

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Hi.

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Welcome to U.S. again.

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How long will you people be staying here?

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Until the end of April this time, so pretty long.

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But not in New York City.

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You're going out to California.

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Yeah, California and southwest in general.

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How long will you be in New York?

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I want to come up to New York.

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Up to Friday afternoon, actually, so pretty fast.

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Anyway, I have a question.

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When I came back from Prague last week on the Czech airline, there was this very chilling

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video that they played explaining to the Czech people on the plane how the U.S. visit program

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works with the fingerprinting and the digitized photograph, that sort of thing.

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Was there a similar video playing on your flight?

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I haven't seen it on our flight.

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I actually saw it on the DHS website where they have it in like 20 different languages.

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And it is kind of disturbing because they start with explaining how you need to get

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fingerprinted to get into the country, and then they say it's for your privacy, which

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is kind of strange.

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Right.

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For your privacy?

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That's what they say.

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I don't know.

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Okay.

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Well, that's a little double think there.

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Yeah.

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It's a very Orwellian video.

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I wish I'd had my camcorder ready.

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I would have videotaped it off on the flight, but I didn't get a chance to.

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It's on dhs.gov on the U.S. visit website, so.

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Okay.

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The video is on there?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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In cartoon format?

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Well, in various streaming video formats.

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Now, Bernie, when you returned from Prague, I understand you had a bit of an encounter

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with Homeland Security.

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Yeah.

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When I got back to the U.S., that's when the problem started.

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I had brought back a bunch of interesting items with me, and when I went through customs,

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they pulled me aside and said, you've been selected to have your checked luggage hand

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searched.

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So I went over to this table I was directed to, and was told to put my bag at a table,

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and told to unpack it, and the Homeland Security, actually it was the Department of Immigration

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and Customs Enforcement, the ICE, the ICE man, asked me to remove different items, and

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yes, what they were, and there were things like my scanner radio, like a wideband receiver

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to listen to radio transmissions, they want to know what that was about, and a Swiss Army

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knife and what else, oh, an 18th century carved wooden jewelry box that I found in an antique

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shop in Prague.

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I found this box, he was very concerned about it, it was this black box with a handle and

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metal edges, and he said, what is this?

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I said, it's a box set of the plastic people of the universe, and he looked at me really

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strange like, what is that?

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I said, well, it's Václav Havel's favorite band, and he said, well, who's Václav Havel?

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I said, well, he's the former president of the Czech Republic, who I just came back from.

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And did he ask why there's a Czech Republic?

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No, he, I apparently knew what the Czech Republic was, because he asked me where I came from,

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and I explained to him, and then he asked why I was there, and, well, first he asked,

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he was asking me questions about the band, Plastic People of the Universe, he'd never

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heard of them, and he was like asking me interrogation-like questions about the band, like he didn't believe

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me that there was a band called Plastic People of the Universe, and why I would have like

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every CD they ever put out.

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Well, that's part of Homeland Security's latest training program, is that their agents know

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every single band and album recorded, so that you can't smuggle in a fake album that's really

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a bomb.

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Music appreciation.

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Yeah.

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So, but the best part is, he asked me about this conference I was there for, he asked

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why I was there, and I said I was in Hanover for the CBIT conference, and he said, what

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is CBIT?

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Does it have something to do with the sea?

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I said, no, it's like the world's largest IT and telecom conference and trade show,

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and he said, well, are there, he asked me a couple of questions about that, one of them

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was are there any companies that involve with satellite television there, and I said, well,

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yes, there are, as a matter of fact, and he said, any companies involved with Nagrovision?

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I said, well, yes, as a matter of fact, there are.

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He said, well, what do you know about Nagrovision?

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I said, well, I know it's an encryption scheme used by several satellite television providers,

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I think mostly European ones, is that right, Sascha?

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Yeah, it's mostly used by Hispasat, a Spanish satellite operator, and I think they've even

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switched from using it and switched to NDS Videoguard, which is owned by Fox.

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I was surprised that an Immigration and Customs Enforcement officer was asking me about an

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encryption scheme, and I asked him, well, what's your interest in that?

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And he said, well, I have a free-to-air satellite receiver, which is a legal thing you can use

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to receive, very common in Europe, but in this country, very few people use free-to-air,

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which is, you know, perceive all the unencrypted broadcasts, a lot of fun, but anyway, he told

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me he had one of these free-to-air receivers, and he likes to watch the football matches,

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but some of the programming he wants to see is encrypted, and he was looking for a way,

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he asked me if I knew how to hack Nagrovision.

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I said, well, no.

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You've had this conversation with, I don't believe this.

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Yeah, this is the strangest thing, he's like, you know, he said break was his term, he said

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you know how to break, break, no, he did say hack at one point, he said you know how

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to break the Nagrovision scheme, it's like, no, I don't know anything about that.

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And like you're going to say yes to a person like that.

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So he said, well, he was interested in being able to get those, his term was get, he wanted

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to get this programming that was scrambled, that was the term he used, scrambled, and

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he just wanted to know if Nagrovision had been hacked.

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And I said, well, you know, if there's people looking to try to, you know, get it for free

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like you, I imagine there's other people willing to sell it to them, but not me.

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And he just sort of looked at me strange, and then he just told me to pack up my bag

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and leave.

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So that was the end of it.

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He's probably very disappointed now, it smells like entrapment.

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Well, it reminded me a lot of when I was in prison almost ten years ago, and there were

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two security guards at the eastern, the prison in eastern Pennsylvania, Northampton County,

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Pennsylvania.

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Well, it was one of the many, one of the five prisons I was being held in.

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And after they read a newspaper article about my case, they were very intrigued about me

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and were asking me questions about cell phones.

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And two of them had admitted to me that they had purchased cloned cell phones, illegally

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cloned cell phones, and had saved lots of money making calls with them, and it's like

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they thought it was pretty great.

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And I really thought there was something wrong with that picture, because they were on the

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other side of the bars, and I was the inside, and I was never accused of ever committing

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fraud or even attempting to commit any fraud with cell phones.

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But it was just a surreal thing, and that just came to mind, that this ICE man was asking

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me questions about this encryption scheme, if I knew how to break it.

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Well, you always do have the most interesting conversations with law enforcement of all

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different sorts, so not surprised.

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If you engage them in conversation, I guarantee you, you will have an interesting conversation

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many times, because all it takes is just to respond the right way, and you can get some

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pretty interesting responses from law enforcement people.

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Now then, in honor of our Dutch friends here today, we have a couple of stories from Holland.

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Maybe you've heard about this, maybe not.

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Five computer hackers in the, and I use this term very loosely, in the Netherlands, not

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the Netherlands, but computer hackers, have been handed sentences ranging from work orders

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to youth detention for disabling a number of websites operated by the Dutch government.

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A group of around 15 hackers, who call themselves Oxife Crew, I believe is how you say it, O-X-1-F-E,

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it's the spelling, carried out a distributed denial-of-service attack last year on the

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government websites, Overheid.nl and Rigoring.nl, in a protest against recent cabinet proposals.

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The group claimed cabinet members were its sole targets.

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00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:30,620
The websites, the central gateway to all information on cabinet policy in the Netherlands, couldn't

235
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be reached for five days.

236
00:13:31,780 --> 00:13:33,100
Did you know anything about this?

237
00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:38,340
Yeah, I read about it, but I don't know any more than that is in that message.

238
00:13:38,340 --> 00:13:43,260
I think it's the first case, at least, where denial-of-service attacks have been enforced,

239
00:13:43,260 --> 00:13:50,220
and actually people have got a real fine for it, and the problem is it's, yeah, it's basically

240
00:13:50,220 --> 00:13:54,740
electronic vandalism, and it's been a big problem for years, and years, and years, and

241
00:13:54,740 --> 00:13:58,540
I know a lot of people who work for ISPs who've been trying to get law enforcement interested

242
00:13:58,540 --> 00:14:04,460
into actually doing something with this, but because, yeah, if you put up websites for

243
00:14:04,460 --> 00:14:09,900
days, and days, and an end, then there's no real way of doing anything against it, and...

244
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:15,660
Well, I mean, I've always thought that denial-of-service attacks are the lowest possible thing people

245
00:14:15,660 --> 00:14:16,660
can do.

246
00:14:16,660 --> 00:14:17,660
Yeah.

247
00:14:17,660 --> 00:14:18,660
Maybe an extra credit card for it.

248
00:14:18,660 --> 00:14:19,660
It's like throwing in Windows and stuff like that.

249
00:14:20,100 --> 00:14:26,940
It's, yeah, it's vandalism, but I'm also a bit surprised by the sentencing here is very

250
00:14:26,940 --> 00:14:30,780
different than it would be in this country, you know.

251
00:14:30,780 --> 00:14:31,780
Like no lifetime...

252
00:14:31,780 --> 00:14:32,780
Right.

253
00:14:32,780 --> 00:14:33,780
Yeah.

254
00:14:33,780 --> 00:14:34,780
Right.

255
00:14:34,780 --> 00:14:38,740
And I wonder if it's any less effective, or maybe it's even more effective to have a sentence

256
00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:39,740
like this.

257
00:14:39,740 --> 00:14:40,740
You know, work orders...

258
00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:41,740
No, no, no.

259
00:14:41,740 --> 00:14:49,420
I think for the crime they committed, it's pretty low, but it's comparable to other things.

260
00:14:50,180 --> 00:14:54,180
But in general, we don't have really high sentences, and I'm not sure it would work.

261
00:14:54,180 --> 00:14:58,380
But if somebody were to make Yahoo go away for an hour, all of a sudden they're the enemy

262
00:14:58,380 --> 00:15:02,780
of the state, and they've caused all kinds of mayhem and horror.

263
00:15:02,780 --> 00:15:04,500
And you know, it's a website, people.

264
00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:05,500
Deal with it.

265
00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:07,540
You know, get around it and figure out something else.

266
00:15:07,540 --> 00:15:08,540
Emmanuel?

267
00:15:08,540 --> 00:15:09,540
Yes.

268
00:15:09,540 --> 00:15:17,060
I've always likened denial-of-service attacks to people who do that, to people who enjoy

269
00:15:17,060 --> 00:15:22,100
intentionally clogging public toilets and then flushing them to watch them overflow.

270
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:23,100
Are there people like that?

271
00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:24,100
I didn't...

272
00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:25,100
There probably exist.

273
00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:26,100
There are.

274
00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:27,100
Believe it or not, there are.

275
00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:30,780
And, you know, or like junior high school students who like to intentionally clog the

276
00:15:30,780 --> 00:15:33,940
toilets and then flush them and run away as they overflood.

277
00:15:33,940 --> 00:15:34,940
It just...

278
00:15:34,940 --> 00:15:35,940
It's that kind of thing.

279
00:15:35,940 --> 00:15:40,100
I think nothing less than a 20-year sentence will send the message that this kind of thing

280
00:15:40,100 --> 00:15:41,100
will not be tolerated.

281
00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:42,100
That's my personal feeling.

282
00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:43,100
Junior high school kids?

283
00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:44,100
Yeah, absolutely.

284
00:15:44,140 --> 00:15:45,140
Yeah, absolutely.

285
00:15:45,140 --> 00:15:47,700
I mean, I don't think age should matter in a situation like that.

286
00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:49,940
You should be tried as an adult if you stop at the toilet.

287
00:15:49,940 --> 00:15:50,940
Well, you can't be executed now.

288
00:15:50,940 --> 00:15:51,940
That's the good news if you're a minor.

289
00:15:51,940 --> 00:15:56,940
Let me tell you, the excretory system, and I don't want to, you know, offend the FCC

290
00:15:56,940 --> 00:16:00,940
here by delving into this too much, but I'm just saying, you know, it's a very serious

291
00:16:00,940 --> 00:16:01,940
system.

292
00:16:01,940 --> 00:16:03,180
You don't want to mess with it.

293
00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:05,180
And if you do, you should have to pay the price.

294
00:16:05,180 --> 00:16:06,180
That's all I'm saying.

295
00:16:06,180 --> 00:16:08,580
We're going to get so many letters on this topic.

296
00:16:08,580 --> 00:16:10,780
I'm sure a lot of people feel strongly about it.

297
00:16:10,780 --> 00:16:13,860
Maybe life is a more appropriate sentence for these kind of people.

298
00:16:14,620 --> 00:16:16,620
Thanks for waking me up about that, Bernie.

299
00:16:16,620 --> 00:16:21,660
Another story from Holland here, five major Dutch internet providers have agreed to cooperate

300
00:16:21,660 --> 00:16:26,220
in a crackdown on illegal file sharing, saying they will send warnings to clients suspected

301
00:16:26,220 --> 00:16:30,020
of swapping copyrighted music, film, and software files.

302
00:16:30,020 --> 00:16:34,220
The providers said they will forward letters from the Brain Institute, yes, I'm not making

303
00:16:34,220 --> 00:16:39,060
that up, the Brain Institute, which represents the entertainment industry in the Netherlands

304
00:16:39,060 --> 00:16:41,940
warning clients sharing copyrighted materials against the law.

305
00:16:41,940 --> 00:16:42,940
The Brain Institute?

306
00:16:43,020 --> 00:16:49,220
Yeah, it's a Dutch name normally, Brain, but it comes down to the same.

307
00:16:49,220 --> 00:16:50,220
It does mean brain.

308
00:16:50,220 --> 00:16:51,220
Yeah.

309
00:16:51,220 --> 00:16:52,220
Okay.

310
00:16:52,220 --> 00:16:53,220
Well, there's one very interesting thing.

311
00:16:53,220 --> 00:16:58,420
One of the providers who is forwarding, the problem is there are letters sent to subscribers

312
00:16:58,420 --> 00:17:04,780
who are blamed of using peer-to-peer networking for illegal music downloading, and they don't

313
00:17:04,780 --> 00:17:12,140
want to give out the address to the Brain people, but they'll forward the threatening

314
00:17:12,140 --> 00:17:18,900
letters as a service, that's basically what they're saying, and I know of some users who

315
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:24,700
are trying to go against the internet provider now because officially the end-user agreement

316
00:17:24,700 --> 00:17:28,820
or the agreement of the internet provider doesn't allow the internet provider to give

317
00:17:28,820 --> 00:17:35,740
them news from outside companies, be it a company or the government or whatever, so

318
00:17:35,740 --> 00:17:37,740
it's an interesting case, but yeah.

319
00:17:38,340 --> 00:17:41,300
Well, there's one part of this that I think is really amazing.

320
00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:48,540
At least one major Dutch provider, Access For All, who we all know and love, Access

321
00:17:48,540 --> 00:17:51,660
For All said it would not cooperate with the Brain Institute.

322
00:17:51,660 --> 00:17:55,260
Spokeswoman Judith Van Erven said, they never even asked us.

323
00:17:55,260 --> 00:17:58,300
I guess they know where we stand.

324
00:17:58,300 --> 00:17:59,820
I love these people.

325
00:17:59,820 --> 00:18:02,980
That's the perfect attitude to have against authority figures.

326
00:18:02,980 --> 00:18:08,140
They go on to say, Access For All was not an enforcement arm of the entertainment industry.

327
00:18:08,140 --> 00:18:09,140
Amen.

328
00:18:09,140 --> 00:18:10,140
Exactly.

329
00:18:10,140 --> 00:18:11,140
Wow.

330
00:18:11,140 --> 00:18:14,140
So, yeah, that's news out of Holland.

331
00:18:14,140 --> 00:18:16,660
I have some French news that sort of touches on that.

332
00:18:16,660 --> 00:18:17,660
Okay, Jim, what do you got?

333
00:18:17,660 --> 00:18:25,420
Well, last St. Patrick's Day, digital copying in France, a French court case being closely

334
00:18:25,420 --> 00:18:29,260
watched by intellectual property experts and the entertainment industry, a judge at the

335
00:18:29,260 --> 00:18:34,060
Court of Appeals of Montpellier has ruled it's legal for a person to make digital copies

336
00:18:34,060 --> 00:18:37,900
of music, video, and other materials for friends and family members.

337
00:18:37,900 --> 00:18:42,300
But the public prosecutor's office has appealed the case again to France's highest court,

338
00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:45,100
saying it broadens the idea of private use too far.

339
00:18:45,100 --> 00:18:49,140
The judge extended the scope of the private, but too much beyond the limits set by the

340
00:18:49,140 --> 00:18:53,980
law itself, said the lawyer for the prosecution, which is representing 17 major film studios.

341
00:18:53,980 --> 00:19:00,860
The case concerns a 22-year-old former student who owned 488 copies of movies, some downloaded

342
00:19:00,860 --> 00:19:02,160
from the internet.

343
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:07,460
The defense lawyer, Joelle Gluck-Fossat, hailed the ruling, saying before downloading was

344
00:19:07,460 --> 00:19:10,780
called piracy, now it will be just called downloading.

345
00:19:10,780 --> 00:19:15,100
She noted that French consumers already paid copy taxes when buying computers and blank

346
00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:16,100
CDs.

347
00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:17,100
Interesting.

348
00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:18,100
I thought so.

349
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:19,740
What do you make of it?

350
00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:24,500
I think that this is just a, I hope it's not, but I think it's probably just a momentary

351
00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:25,500
large blip.

352
00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:28,700
It will eventually get crushed even if they have to rewrite the law.

353
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:33,660
There is some leeway in the last bit about the fact that the French consumers already

354
00:19:33,660 --> 00:19:40,740
pay taxes to allow copying, much like I believe there was a charge put on CDs, blanks, not

355
00:19:40,740 --> 00:19:44,500
blank CDs, blank cassettes years ago and videotape.

356
00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:48,100
But that may be the only thing keeping it alive and they'll just rewrite the law.

357
00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:53,060
I think the problem with those fees, in Holland we have them too, they're called the home

358
00:19:53,060 --> 00:19:58,420
copying fee, and they're on all blank media, be it cassettes, minidisc, DVDs, etc.

359
00:19:58,420 --> 00:20:02,340
Is that you pay the fee for the fact that you're probably going to copy on it anyway,

360
00:20:02,340 --> 00:20:05,260
which doesn't legalize the copying.

361
00:20:05,260 --> 00:20:08,860
So it's basically getting a fine for a crime you might not commit.

362
00:20:08,860 --> 00:20:12,460
So you buy this and you're a thief.

363
00:20:12,460 --> 00:20:17,140
Not only that, but it's sort of like a tax on drugs.

364
00:20:17,180 --> 00:20:20,500
If you pay the tax, they get you for selling the drugs anyway, and if you don't pay the

365
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:23,020
tax, they get you for avoiding the tax.

366
00:20:23,020 --> 00:20:28,220
In other words, it sounds like it should give you some rights by paying this fee, but it

367
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:29,220
doesn't.

368
00:20:29,220 --> 00:20:30,220
Yeah.

369
00:20:30,220 --> 00:20:37,740
Well, not to be outdone in the United States, we've been working on some laws too.

370
00:20:37,740 --> 00:20:42,380
This particular one comes out of Utah, and you know that means enlightenment.

371
00:20:42,380 --> 00:20:45,860
Ignoring threats of litigation from civil rights and free speech advocates, Governor

372
00:20:45,940 --> 00:20:51,460
John Huntsman Jr. has signed legislation meant to protect children from internet pornography.

373
00:20:51,460 --> 00:20:53,900
Mike, you look like you might know something about this.

374
00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:54,900
Yes.

375
00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:55,900
I have the law right here.

376
00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:56,900
You have the law, the entire law?

377
00:20:56,900 --> 00:20:57,900
It's right here.

378
00:20:57,900 --> 00:20:58,900
Okay.

379
00:20:58,900 --> 00:20:59,900
It sounds like this.

380
00:20:59,900 --> 00:21:00,900
Wow.

381
00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:01,900
That's what a law looks like.

382
00:21:01,900 --> 00:21:02,900
Yeah.

383
00:21:02,900 --> 00:21:03,900
It's got all kinds of underlines.

384
00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:09,980
Basically what this law does is mandates internet service providers in the state of Utah to comply

385
00:21:09,980 --> 00:21:16,340
with this list that the state attorney has to come up with of, I guess, porn sites or

386
00:21:16,340 --> 00:21:22,580
otherwise sites offensive to minors, and they must, at the request of the customer for free,

387
00:21:22,580 --> 00:21:23,580
block all those sites.

388
00:21:23,580 --> 00:21:24,580
Wait a minute.

389
00:21:24,580 --> 00:21:26,340
You're saying they've got to come up with a list of all the porn sites?

390
00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:27,340
Yeah.

391
00:21:27,340 --> 00:21:30,500
Someone in the attorney's land of the state of Utah-

392
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:33,740
Do you know how much money they could make by selling that list to people that want to

393
00:21:33,740 --> 00:21:34,740
get to it?

394
00:21:34,740 --> 00:21:39,140
I just want to know, are they going to put out a help wanted ad?

395
00:21:39,140 --> 00:21:41,940
We need like 1,000 people to go on the internet and look for porn?

396
00:21:41,940 --> 00:21:45,020
I'm sure they already have all the people they need that will happily go out and search

397
00:21:45,020 --> 00:21:46,020
for porn.

398
00:21:46,020 --> 00:21:47,020
This is Utah.

399
00:21:47,020 --> 00:21:50,700
But I'm just thinking, especially in Utah, I'm just thinking that for someone to actually

400
00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:56,140
volunteer to go out there and just list all the porn sites, that's a fantastic service.

401
00:21:56,140 --> 00:22:00,340
People have been looking for that kind of a list for decades.

402
00:22:00,340 --> 00:22:05,460
If you operate an ISP in Utah, you will be getting this list, I guess.

403
00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:12,740
The law is pretty clearly, I think, unconstitutional, being photographed.

404
00:22:12,740 --> 00:22:19,980
Anyway, there can't be a law that says the government mandates that these sites be blocked.

405
00:22:19,980 --> 00:22:25,460
This has been fought and won by the forces of freedom on the federal level several times,

406
00:22:25,460 --> 00:22:28,780
on the state level several times.

407
00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:34,260
I think this is just like a political ploy so that people can, congress critters, whatever

408
00:22:34,260 --> 00:22:38,340
they're called, can go and say, I voted for the anti-porn law and win re-election.

409
00:22:38,340 --> 00:22:41,260
Wait a minute, there's an interesting wrinkle on this.

410
00:22:41,260 --> 00:22:43,740
The government isn't mandating that these sites be blocked.

411
00:22:43,740 --> 00:22:48,020
The government is coming up with a list that says you can now tell your ISP, I don't want

412
00:22:48,020 --> 00:22:51,820
to see any of that porn that's on that list, and then they have to block it.

413
00:22:51,820 --> 00:22:56,220
It would be similarly unconstitutional, Jim, if the government came up with a list of communist

414
00:22:56,220 --> 00:23:01,860
newspapers and said, if you want, we're not going to sell you these.

415
00:23:01,860 --> 00:23:03,060
That's probably next.

416
00:23:03,060 --> 00:23:05,780
It's probably next, except they're going to call it terrorists.

417
00:23:05,780 --> 00:23:08,100
There's so many different ways this can't work.

418
00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:13,380
The technical ways it can't work, the legal ways that it's going to be challenged.

419
00:23:13,380 --> 00:23:18,420
It's especially bizarre for ISPs, which are most ISPs these days, which do business in

420
00:23:18,420 --> 00:23:20,780
states other than Utah.

421
00:23:20,780 --> 00:23:24,700
Is America Online going to be forced to comply with this for their small fraction of Utah

422
00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:25,700
customers?

423
00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:27,700
They'd lose half their business, wouldn't they?

424
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:31,940
Plus, it also seems that it would be so easy to get around this.

425
00:23:32,020 --> 00:23:36,180
They also list the IPs of all the websites, because you can just type in the IP instead

426
00:23:36,180 --> 00:23:37,380
of the actual name.

427
00:23:37,380 --> 00:23:40,380
I'm sure the list will be incomplete.

428
00:23:40,380 --> 00:23:43,100
And constantly changing.

429
00:23:43,100 --> 00:23:45,340
And what constitutes pornography, anyway?

430
00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:46,340
How are they going to define that?

431
00:23:46,340 --> 00:23:51,260
I mean, by Utah standards, that's not the same as, certainly, by, say, Nevada standards.

432
00:23:51,260 --> 00:23:54,500
It just says, material harmful to minors.

433
00:23:54,500 --> 00:24:01,620
Hasn't 2600.com at least once been inappropriately labeled as a porn site?

434
00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:04,500
We've been labeled as everything.

435
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:06,500
Everything you can possibly imagine we've been labeled as, and I'm sure they'd want

436
00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:07,940
to block us as well.

437
00:24:07,940 --> 00:24:11,740
The odd thing about that, too, is that our website is constantly being blocked in various

438
00:24:11,740 --> 00:24:16,580
places, yet it's not the contents of the magazine that's on the website.

439
00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:24,540
The website has the radio shows, and it has various news items and other types of things.

440
00:24:24,540 --> 00:24:26,840
Audio from conferences.

441
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,180
So there is no real hacker newsletter on there.

442
00:24:30,260 --> 00:24:33,260
So I can't imagine what it is that they think they're blocking.

443
00:24:33,260 --> 00:24:35,620
And they give all kinds of different reasons.

444
00:24:35,620 --> 00:24:38,900
Obscenity, pornography, illegal activity.

445
00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:40,420
You name it, they've come up with.

446
00:24:40,420 --> 00:24:42,500
In fact, the entire Easy Everything chain.

447
00:24:42,500 --> 00:24:46,060
In fact, when I go to Holland, this is one of my pet peeves, going to Holland, because

448
00:24:46,060 --> 00:24:49,500
every couple of blocks is Easy Everything Internet Cafe, and that's where everybody

449
00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:51,340
tends to go for access.

450
00:24:51,340 --> 00:24:53,940
But they block us by default.

451
00:24:53,940 --> 00:24:55,780
Every single one of those places blocks us.

452
00:24:55,780 --> 00:24:58,200
They block Dutch hacker sites as well.

453
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,320
So it's very difficult to keep in touch.

454
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:07,440
I just skimmed through this law, and I could not find any definition of material harmful

455
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:08,440
to minors.

456
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,240
Well, they know it when they see it.

457
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:12,240
Yeah.

458
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:13,240
It's all about protecting the children.

459
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,600
But, you know, I think they need to be protected against stupidity as well.

460
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:18,600
All right.

461
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaking about stupidity, this is a story we had last week.

462
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,320
We didn't have time for it.

463
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,320
A newly opened Brooklyn bagel shop is in deep trouble with the MTA.

464
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,120
The Metropolitan Transit Authority says F Line Bagels is out of line and off track.

465
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:33,400
I hope they didn't really say that.

466
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,520
That's just the stupid news story we have here.

467
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:37,520
Yeah.

468
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:42,360
Farid and Fawad Asad, they're brothers, and they own the place.

469
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:46,760
They left out few details in decorating their Brooklyn bagel shop like a subway.

470
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,280
It's called F Line Bagels because we're right underneath the F Line.

471
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,680
And F Line Bagels has been serving strap hangers and the Carroll Gardens community for only

472
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,720
six weeks.

473
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,120
But they received a visit and then a letter from an MTA lawyer, usually goes the other

474
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:05,440
way around, but I guess they got the visit first, then the letter, telling them to cease

475
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:11,280
and desist from using the F Line symbol and any subway memorabilia because of trademark

476
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,480
and intellectual property infringement.

477
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,040
What is the big deal here?

478
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:17,040
So what?

479
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,560
So they use an F in a circle.

480
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,160
How is somebody going to be confused and go to a bagel shop thinking they're going into

481
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,720
the subway and give them money instead?

482
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,160
What is the problem here?

483
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:31,280
If anything, it's good publicity for the transit authority because people are seeing

484
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,280
brand recognition.

485
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,120
The F train, it means something.

486
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:35,120
What's the problem?

487
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:40,040
Well, what I think is ridiculous about this is that people in New York identify places

488
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,520
by where they're on the subway lines.

489
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,520
Very often you'll hear, how do I get to so and so, and somebody will say, oh, just take

490
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,720
the N line or whatever down to a certain stop, and that's how you get there.

491
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:54,520
And it's similar to other cities where people would give you directions based on the streets,

492
00:26:54,520 --> 00:27:00,360
and people name their businesses off of the names of streets and the neighborhoods where

493
00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:01,680
they're located and all the time.

494
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,200
So how is this any different than doing something like that?

495
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,200
Yeah.

496
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,280
I mean, can you – I think there's a diner right by the Queensborough Bridge that named

497
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,320
itself after the bridge.

498
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,560
Are they going to have to change their name to something on the boulevard?

499
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,240
Well, they're naming the boulevard.

500
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,360
They're naming the avenue or something like that.

501
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:22,000
Can you not name something after the street because the city named the street?

502
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,880
You have to pay the city royalties now.

503
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:24,880
Come on.

504
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:25,880
Where is this going to stop?

505
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,480
I think the city should just charge royalties on all ordinal numbers between 1st and like

506
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:30,480
200th, whatever.

507
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,880
You know, I would say ordinarily that's very funny, but today I'm going to say don't give

508
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:34,880
them any ideas.

509
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:35,880
All right.

510
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:36,880
All right.

511
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:37,880
Don't do that.

512
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,880
We should all patronize this bagel place so they can fight this.

513
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:43,880
Yes.

514
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:44,880
I agree.

515
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,880
It's F line bagels, but I don't see an address here, but I guess you can get there on the

516
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:48,880
F train.

517
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,880
It's at the Smith and 9th Street stops of the F and G trains in Brooklyn.

518
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,880
Oh, they didn't call themselves F and G bagels.

519
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,880
You know, I don't think that they could have been sued if they had done that as long as

520
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:04,880
they didn't use the colored F and the colored G that they have on the subways.

521
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,880
Well, the G train leads all the publicity it can get.

522
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:08,880
That's true.

523
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:09,880
I agree.

524
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,880
So I don't see how they could possibly sue them if they named them that, but it shows

525
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,880
they know what, you know, how to market because G line bagels wouldn't have worked.

526
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:16,880
No one would go there.

527
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,880
No one goes there because no one can find a G train ever.

528
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,880
Jim, you were an MTA employee.

529
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,880
Do you have any idea whether that symbol, the F in the circle or any of the letter lines

530
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,880
in the circle is an actual copyrighted or trademark?

531
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:31,880
I honestly believe they are.

532
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:37,880
I do believe I've seen that on something, and I was trying to dig it up or to remember

533
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,880
it and have had very little luck.

534
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,880
But the problem that the MTA has with this is that there's precedent that goes against

535
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:44,880
them.

536
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:51,880
There's a well-known woman by the name of Ellen Hart Sturm who was a Miss Subways back

537
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,880
when the contest was in its heyday from the 30s through the 60s.

538
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,880
And she had a couple of well-known restaurants.

539
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:06,880
She owns Iridium, the jazz club, as well as Ellen's Stardust Diner, which is a little

540
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,880
bit to the north of Times Square.

541
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,880
And much of its decor is subway related.

542
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:22,880
Much like the F Line Bagels, they spent about $1,000 on internet auctions or direct purchase

543
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:32,880
of MTA memorabilia, signs, straps, actually their metal bars to hold on to, and other

544
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,880
things to decorate the place.

545
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,880
The TA apparently, that's not what bothers them.

546
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,880
It's the combination of that with the name of the place.

547
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,880
But the point is, someone else has done something similar beforehand.

548
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,880
The MTA doesn't have much of a legal aid to stand on, I believe.

549
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,880
People are not going to be going to this bagel shop instead of taking the subway to work, though.

550
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,880
And they could just point them, you know, 50 feet away to get to the real subway.

551
00:29:54,880 --> 00:30:00,880
Well, I mean, it's basically complimenting the MTA by saying the F train is a landmark

552
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,880
of sorts and thereby recognizable in that sense.

553
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:06,880
I really...

554
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,880
Clearly the MTA's case is full of holes.

555
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:10,880
Yeah.

556
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:11,880
Like the bagels.

557
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,880
Okay, so that's the story on the F Line Bagels there.

558
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,880
We have some letters to read.

559
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:23,880
Our address for you to send us a letter and maybe have it read on the air is oth at 2600.com.

560
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,880
And in a little while, we'll be taking phone calls.

561
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,880
If you're off the hook, I'm a senior citizen.

562
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,880
Know nothing about the new technology except to use the internet and email on an Apple computer.

563
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,880
But yours is the only show I never want to miss.

564
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,880
You are so funny and so political.

565
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:43,880
Thinking of getting a prepaid cell phone, I'd like to have it just for emergencies.

566
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:44,880
What do you think?

567
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:45,880
Signed, Florence.

568
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,880
Well, Bernie, I think you had an answer for Florence here.

569
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,880
Yeah, I wrote back Florence in the list.

570
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,880
And I told her that if she only...

571
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,880
This is the thing most people say.

572
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,880
They only need a cell phone for emergencies.

573
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,880
Well, it depends on your definition of emergency.

574
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,880
If it's a kind of emergency where you just want to call 911, if you want to limit it to those emergencies,

575
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,880
you don't have to pay anybody anything.

576
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,880
You can just get an old cell phone that works.

577
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,880
It doesn't have to be activated.

578
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,880
And the FCC requires the wireless carriers to carry the 911 calls.

579
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,880
In fact, I recommended to Florence she get one of the real old analog back phones.

580
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:23,880
Remember those things that weighed like three or four pounds that you plug in your cigarette lighter and had a handle on them?

581
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,880
Those things put out a lot of power.

582
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:26,880
They put out like three watts.

583
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,880
So you have much greater range.

584
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:29,880
The fidelity is really good.

585
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:36,880
You can hit 911 sites miles away or hit cell sites miles away and just have really good access to 911.

586
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,880
And you don't have to pay to activate the phone.

587
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,880
It will just send the 911 calls out.

588
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,880
But it's possible that Florence was asking, she said she wanted to use it only for emergencies,

589
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:52,880
maybe not just 911 emergencies but emergencies where she needs to call a friend to help her fix a flat tire or something like that.

590
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:58,880
Well, if you're really a cheapskate, some of these, and I think we had a listener call in or write in about that not long ago,

591
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,880
I think it was a caller.

592
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:10,880
You could actually make collect calls or calls on a major credit card from one of these not activated cell phones.

593
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:12,880
Now, it doesn't work in all areas.

594
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,880
It depends on which carrier you happen to be on.

595
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,880
But, you know, if it's only once in a great while kind of thing,

596
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,880
you don't mind spending a couple bucks a minute for that rare emergency call.

597
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,880
But then again, you don't want to be stuck and find out it doesn't work in your area.

598
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:26,880
There's a couple other companies.

599
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,880
TracFone is one that several friends of mine have said.

600
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,880
It's T-R-A-C-F-O-N-E.

601
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,880
You've probably seen them in convenience stores.

602
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,880
It's a phone you can buy for about $50, and you can buy prepaid minutes,

603
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,880
which only expire if you don't buy more minutes like within a year kind of thing.

604
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,880
It sort of keeps stringing you along.

605
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,880
But it's not as bad as like the prepaid calling cards on pay phones,

606
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,880
which as soon as you start using them, the minutes just start dwindling right away without using it.

607
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,880
So TracFone is another option for Florence.

608
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaking of phones, I'm going to have a real phone challenge later this year.

609
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:08,880
I guess we should fill folks in on what we're planning, Hanneke and Sasha, overseas.

610
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,880
I'm going to be going around the world by land and by boat.

611
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,880
That's something I've always wanted to do.

612
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,880
And I'll be joining you on the Trans-Siberian Express, which goes through Russia.

613
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,880
And, of course, throughout all this, the challenge will be to do the radio show somehow.

614
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:29,880
Now, I believe we're also planning an eight-day excursion in the country of Mongolia.

615
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,880
Yeah, and I think phone-wise, Mongolia will be a bigger problem than Russia.

616
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,880
Yeah, I think it's going to be probably the biggest problem of all.

617
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,880
They don't have much in the way of electricity or in the way of phones.

618
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,880
So our batteries are going to be running out.

619
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,880
Our phones are going to be nonexistent.

620
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,880
I guess now is the time to start looking for solutions to this.

621
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,880
Do we know anything about the infrastructure of this country?

622
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:51,880
They have camels.

623
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:53,880
All right, well, that's not going to help us.

624
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,880
That's not going to help us get a line back to New York.

625
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,880
We'll have to get one of these very expensive satellite phones.

626
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:04,880
Okay, that's something I'm willing to consider for that one show because, you know, I do want to stay in touch.

627
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,880
How do satellite phones work?

628
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,880
Are they vastly expensive?

629
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,880
Bernie, do you know anything about this?

630
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,880
Coincidentally, when I was at this TBIC conference in Hanover a couple weeks ago,

631
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,880
I saw a company demonstrating or at least showing—

632
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:25,880
they couldn't demonstrate because they were inside a building—the new IntelSat 4 transceiver.

633
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,880
IntelSat 4 is a new satellite, which was supposed to have been launched last week,

634
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,880
but it ran into some glitches.

635
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,880
But I suppose it will be launched any day now.

636
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:41,880
I think in the French Guiana down there, the Ariane French rocket-launching program,

637
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,880
we'll be launching an IntelSat 4 program.

638
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,880
The rates aren't too terrible for a satellite phone.

639
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,880
It's going to work out to like 70-some cents a minute.

640
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,880
I don't know what the monthly plans are and so forth, but that's one option.

641
00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:03,880
Basically, it's something about the size of a hardback book that you can plug a regular telephone into.

642
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,880
You can just, you know, get any analog phone with an RJ-11 plug.

643
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,880
Just plug it into this little brick and, you know, have to—

644
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:17,880
I'm not sure I want to be traveling around the Gobi Desert in Mongolia with a desk phone and a brick.

645
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,880
You can get one of these Motorola Iridium phones, too.

646
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:26,880
They're the ones you see often on—like if you're watching like war coverage in Iraq on CNN

647
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,880
and you see somebody on a phone with this.

648
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,880
It looks like a regular cell phone except there's this hideous antenna that's sticking out about 12 inches.

649
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,880
I think Iridium is probably one of the best options.

650
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,880
There's also Thuraya.

651
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:39,880
It's a company out of Dubai.

652
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:40,880
Yes.

653
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,880
I doubt they have coverage in Mongolia.

654
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,880
They mostly do Middle East and Europe and—

655
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,880
Part of Africa, I think, too.

656
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,880
Yeah, but that's something to look out for.

657
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:50,880
All right.

658
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,880
We have a few months to look out for this and figure it out, but that's a challenge ahead of us.

659
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:59,880
I think we'll have to be prepared to get like completely, yeah, everything for ourselves,

660
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,880
like maybe solar panel kind of thing or whatever.

661
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,880
It's just—probably it's heavy, but—

662
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:05,880
Yeah.

663
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:06,880
Yeah.

664
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:12,880
Well, you know, we live for these kind of challenges, and Mongolia is only one challenge.

665
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:19,880
It's going to—this whole expedition is going to be taking place all around—on the ocean, on the high seas.

666
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,880
I'm going to be out there in the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean trying to make phone calls.

667
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,880
There was a very interesting thing about satellite phones and being on the ocean on a BBC documentary

668
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:34,880
about war correspondents being on a U.S. ship in front of—near Qatar somewhere.

669
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:35,880
Yeah, I think I saw that.

670
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,880
The ship was not in the harbor, but it was turning small circles all the time,

671
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,880
so they couldn't get a lock in on their satellite phone and all kinds of problems like that.

672
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,880
All right.

673
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,880
Wolf Blitzer can do it, Emanuel.

674
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:48,880
You can, too.

675
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,880
I always try to start every day saying something like that, and it helps.

676
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:53,880
It really does.

677
00:36:53,880 --> 00:37:00,880
Continuing with the emergency phone issue, regarding the mystery, a listener writes in,

678
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:06,880
about dialing 09 to get the police, which another listener called in with that little tidbit.

679
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:11,880
Perhaps this is there for people traveling abroad who did not know that the standard emergency number

680
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,880
for the USA and Canada is 911.

681
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,880
I don't know why they would know it's 09 then.

682
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,880
But anyway, to test this theory, you might want to try dialing the other international standard emergency numbers

683
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:26,880
of 112 and 08, not 80 as pointed out in the previous show, signed Jed.

684
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:27,880
Did we say that?

685
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:28,880
Did we say it was 80?

686
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:29,880
I can't recall.

687
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,880
But 112, that's standard in Europe, isn't it?

688
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:32,880
Yeah.

689
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,880
In fact, don't try this at home or anywhere.

690
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,880
On your cell phone, if you dial 112, even in the United States, it should go to the police,

691
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:41,880
at least on a GSM phone.

692
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,880
I don't know about Verizon and Sprint and all those guys.

693
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:45,880
Jim?

694
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaking about dialing the police, you remember our discussion about, what was it, 344,

695
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:58,880
pound 344 being replaced by 811 for the one-call center to see if you were digging into a gas line or something?

696
00:37:58,880 --> 00:37:59,880
Excavation.

697
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:04,880
Well, I don't know if I should confess this because I think it's a probation violation,

698
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:12,880
but I tried 811, and at pay phones in the city of New York, 811 is as good as 911, every single time.

699
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:13,880
Meaning that it works.

700
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,880
Meaning that it dials 911.

701
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:17,880
Oh, it's the same thing as 911?

702
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,880
I tried it at least 10 times on various pay phones, and every time I dialed 811.

703
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,880
And after the second time, I was thinking, am I missing the 8?

704
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:26,880
You have very big fingers.

705
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,880
I was very careful after the second time, and got 911 every time.

706
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,880
Your fingers are at least twice as big as most people's.

707
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:34,880
Well, everything on me is twice as big.

708
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,880
If you hit the 8, you might be hitting the 9.

709
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,880
I carefully moved over.

710
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,880
I eventually used the tiny little pin.

711
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,880
Okay, that's probably the best thing to do.

712
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:45,880
I remember when I was a kid and I was scanning.

713
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,880
I was scanning all the exchanges.

714
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,880
I used to get all these people upset by doing that.

715
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:55,880
But I dialed 811, and I remember the recording there was simply saying,

716
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,880
if you dial 911, you will get the police.

717
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:00,880
That was the entire recording.

718
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,880
And I guess the only reason for that was for people that, by mistake,

719
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,880
dialed 811 instead of 911.

720
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,880
And I guess they just didn't want to have it go to the police,

721
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,880
and maybe a little hint like that might get them to dial right the next time.

722
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,880
Those hints should be expanded.

723
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,880
There's all kinds of other misdialing things that people could be doing

724
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,880
that should be reminded, like, well, if you dial this number, you'll get them.

725
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,880
Yeah, like if you want to dial Australia, dial country code 61,

726
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,880
not area code 612, and reach Minnesota.

727
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:30,880
Exactly.

728
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:31,880
Yeah.

729
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:33,880
Okay, this listener writes in, hey, I'm from Uruguay,

730
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,880
and I'd like to say that social engineering is very effective here.

731
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,880
I used it once to get information from Antel, our telephone provider.

732
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:42,880
It worked.

733
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,880
I've got a lot of public telephone passwords for the admin menu.

734
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,880
Okay, well, thanks for that little tidbit from Uruguay.

735
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,880
Yes, social engineering works everywhere.

736
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,880
Basically just lying and getting information from people.

737
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,880
Not hard to do.

738
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,880
In your program of March 16th,

739
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:01,880
I can't believe you didn't discuss the news that a team in China

740
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,880
has broken the code used to provide signatures

741
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,880
for authentication in secure transmissions.

742
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,880
Apparently this group from China has been able to break the 161-bit signature code

743
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,880
in one day using a laptop.

744
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:14,880
You know anything about this, Mike?

745
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,880
Well, to say they broke it is a bit of an overstatement.

746
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,880
What the thing is, it's called SHA-1.

747
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,880
It's a way of taking a message

748
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,880
and creating an almost unique string of bits

749
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,880
that verify basically that two people have the same message if they say they do.

750
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,880
And what these people did is they found a way

751
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,880
to more quickly than previously thought possible

752
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,880
generate two different messages that give you the same hash.

753
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,880
And basically the consensus seems to be

754
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,880
that there's nothing to be concerned about yet

755
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,880
because it still takes quite a while.

756
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:58,880
But the fear is that once the function has been shown to be weak in any respect,

757
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,880
more effective attacks will come quickly.

758
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,880
Okay, well, hopefully that's enough coverage for that particular security issue.

759
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,880
But it is a big advance in cryptography.

760
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,880
I don't want to downplay that.

761
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,880
Okay, it's just we can't cover everything.

762
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:16,880
It's impossible.

763
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:17,880
We only have an hour a week.

764
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,880
I wish we had more time, but we only have an hour.

765
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,880
So we have to try and cover as much as possible,

766
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,880
including this story or this letter from another listener.

767
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:26,880
And our phone number, by the way, 212-209-2900.

768
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,880
We'll be taking some phone calls.

769
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:29,880
I love your show.

770
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:31,880
It's great hearing intelligent conversations about technology.

771
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,880
But I felt I should throw in my two cents.

772
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,880
The Video Game Ratings Board,

773
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,880
we've had this long conversation about the MPAA and ratings

774
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,880
and how they have all this control and power and things like that.

775
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,880
The Video Game Ratings Board is called the ESRB

776
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,880
and can be reached at ESRB.org.

777
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,880
It says that it is rated by adults who volunteer

778
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,880
and that their office is in Manhattan.

779
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,880
This sounds like a lot of fun.

780
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:56,880
We're adults.

781
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,880
We're in Manhattan.

782
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,880
We can play video games, go to this office,

783
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,880
and just basically rate them after we play the video games.

784
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,880
That sounds like a great deal.

785
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,880
Infiltration is our life.

786
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,880
Well, I just want to play video games.

787
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,880
If I infiltrate, well, you know, that's a side effect.

788
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:13,880
You get paid for it too.

789
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:14,880
Oh, wow.

790
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:15,880
Oh, there's money involved.

791
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:16,880
Wow.

792
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,880
Anyway, another issue that you touched base on

793
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,880
and I feel is up my alley is the fact that movies are restricted by age.

794
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,880
I'm 16 from British Columbia,

795
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,880
and we have a rating system that is close but not the same.

796
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:31,880
We have G, PG, 14A, and 18A, which to me seems more lax.

797
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,880
But ever since I was young, I've played video games

798
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,880
that were meant for ages 17 plus

799
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,880
and R-rated movies that I rented,

800
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:39,880
but I have never felt that I was too young for them.

801
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,880
Of course, I didn't understand some of the concepts that were explained,

802
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,880
but when I went back and watched them again,

803
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,880
some information that was there but didn't know about the first time came out.

804
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,880
I personally think that your country is starting to trap you guys in,

805
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,880
not keep the invaders out.

806
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,880
But as they come up with more schemes to track us,

807
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,880
they never think about how people can use that against them,

808
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,880
such as the trackers in the passports that are coming out

809
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,880
where others might be able to see what your identity is

810
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,880
and take it, signed Tom.

811
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,880
Yeah, there's a lot of things to be concerned about,

812
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,880
a lot of things to be wary of.

813
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:12,880
I have a letter also.

814
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:13,880
Go ahead.

815
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,880
This letter comes not from a listener,

816
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:17,880
but from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection people.

817
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:19,880
They listen to our show?

818
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,880
Well, they didn't say they do.

819
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,880
This letter comes in response to a letter that I wrote them in August,

820
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:26,880
so they're not the speediest people.

821
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:28,880
Oh, when we came back into the country from, okay.

822
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,880
I wrote them a letter saying basically,

823
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,880
why is it necessary to separate the people from their car

824
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:35,880
as the car is being searched?

825
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,880
And they wrote me a very long letter.

826
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:38,880
It's about two pages.

827
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:40,880
And I thought when I first read the letter

828
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:42,880
that they didn't answer my question,

829
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,880
but it turns out they did answer my question.

830
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,880
It says, in compliance with the safety policy,

831
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,880
the Port of Halton, Halton, Maine being where we crossed,

832
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:53,880
has implemented a standard operating procedure

833
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,880
to have all occupants exit a vehicle

834
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,880
and remain in an attended area

835
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,880
while the secondary inspection is conducted.

836
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:01,880
At the Port of Halton,

837
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,880
this attended area is the lobby area of the Port's main building.

838
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,880
But it's out of sight of the car,

839
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:08,880
so you can't see what they're doing to your car.

840
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,880
Look, this is due to the events of September 11, 2001.

841
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:14,880
The border crossing of Halton began

842
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,880
and continues to conduct more detailed inspections.

843
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:18,880
Yeah, but they could do that

844
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,880
with me being able to see what they're planting in my car.

845
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,880
The safety of the traveling public and of our officers

846
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,880
is paramount to CBP.

847
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,880
Yeah, well, stupidity apparently is more paramount.

848
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,880
I just have one question maybe our listeners can answer.

849
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:36,880
They thanked me in their first sentence

850
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,880
for my correspondence of August 17th

851
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:40,880
filed at the Hidalgo Port of Entry,

852
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:41,880
and I don't know what that means.

853
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:42,880
I don't know either,

854
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,880
but it took them a long time to answer you.

855
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:45,880
It certainly did.

856
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,880
Well, they have recently completed their review of the matter,

857
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:49,880
so maybe they were reviewing the whole time.

858
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,880
You think some heads might have rolled?

859
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:52,880
They were reviewing.

860
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:53,880
I don't know.

861
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,880
They called those guys in for questioning.

862
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,880
That would be kind of nice to know.

863
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:58,880
There's also one more thing,

864
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,880
is if they may offer further assistance,

865
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,880
they gave me Mr. Arthur A. Pitts,

866
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,880
Senior Director, Land, Border, Passenger Operations,

867
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,880
his phone number.

868
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:09,880
Okay, yeah.

869
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,880
It's 202-344-1280.

870
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,880
So maybe if I call him, he'll assist me further.

871
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:16,880
All right.

872
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:18,880
Well, that's something,

873
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,880
getting a response from any governmental agency.

874
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:21,880
All right, our phone number.

875
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,880
Mike, I wonder if you asked

876
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,880
if you could just set up your camcorder on a tripod

877
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,880
videotaping their searching your vehicle

878
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,880
while you waited in the building out of sight,

879
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:33,880
whether they would mind.

880
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,880
It's still unclear as to how going inside

881
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,880
enhances anyone's safety.

882
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,880
I mean, if I were going to shoot them,

883
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:40,880
which is something I would never do,

884
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,880
I could easily do it before I go inside.

885
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:44,880
That's true.

886
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,880
We can theorize about this all night,

887
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,880
but I think you've gotten as much out of them

888
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,880
as possible right now anyway.

889
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,880
Our phone number, 212-209-2900.

890
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:55,880
Let's take some listener phone calls.

891
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:56,880
Let's go all the way down here.

892
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:57,880
Good evening.

893
00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,880
You're on the air.

894
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:00,880
Oh, hi.

895
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:01,880
I'm calling from Switzerland.

896
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:02,880
Switzerland.

897
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:03,880
Yes.

898
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:04,880
Wait, is this Arsene?

899
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:05,880
Yeah.

900
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:06,880
Arsene, how are you doing?

901
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:07,880
You're usually in the studio,

902
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:08,880
and there you are in Switzerland,

903
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:09,880
and you're the first caller.

904
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:10,880
That's pretty good.

905
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:11,880
That's good.

906
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,880
Yeah, well, I'm listening on the feed on the internet,

907
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:14,880
and it's really good.

908
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:15,880
It hasn't dropped at all.

909
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,880
We're beyond the dropping stage.

910
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,880
We've mastered it, so finally we can...

911
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,880
Yeah, well, the ISP here in Switzerland is in bed.

912
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:24,880
Mm-hmm.

913
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:25,880
Yeah.

914
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,880
The other thing I kind of wanted to mention

915
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,880
was about the telephone system here.

916
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,880
I used a phone the other day that told me

917
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:34,880
how much I had to pay on my debt,

918
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:36,880
how much was going on my bill.

919
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,880
And I also found out that voice over IP,

920
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:42,880
it's almost cheaper to call the U.S.

921
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:43,880
than to call Zurich,

922
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,880
which is the nearest, biggest city.

923
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,880
Kind of interesting.

924
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:49,880
Wow.

925
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,880
What's it like over there as far as overall connectivity?

926
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,880
Are people generally more wireless?

927
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,880
Oh, wireless does not exist, basically.

928
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:57,880
Really?

929
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,880
Outside of the major cities, no one has wireless.

930
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,880
Just for the place I'm staying,

931
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,880
we got DSL, or at least ordered it,

932
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,880
and that has a wireless option.

933
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:08,880
But otherwise,

934
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,880
I haven't been picking up any access points anywhere.

935
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,880
ISDN is really big.

936
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:16,880
DSL is just coming in.

937
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:17,880
Interesting.

938
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:18,880
Yeah.

939
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:19,880
All right.

940
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,880
Well, anything else you want to add?

941
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:22,880
No.

942
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:23,880
Just saying hello to everyone.

943
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:24,880
Okay.

944
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:26,880
It's about, what, 2 o'clock in the morning over there?

945
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:27,880
That's 1 o'clock.

946
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:28,880
Well, it's going to be 2.

947
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:29,880
Okay.

948
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:30,880
Yeah.

949
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:31,880
All right.

950
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:32,880
Well, good to hear from you,

951
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:33,880
and we'll see you here next week.

952
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:34,880
All right.

953
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:35,880
Bye-bye.

954
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:36,880
Yeah.

955
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:37,880
Arseny reporting to us from Switzerland,

956
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:38,880
another one of those European countries.

957
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:39,880
And speaking of European countries,

958
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,880
Hanneke and Sasha here from the Netherlands.

959
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,880
Again, reminding people about the What The Hack conference

960
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,880
coming up the later part of July.

961
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,880
It's basically a camping thing again.

962
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,880
I had a great time at the conferences I've been to

963
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:56,880
that have been held outdoors.

964
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,880
It's kind of an alien concept to a lot of people here.

965
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,880
I mean, we have, you know, our concerts occasionally

966
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:02,880
that take place outside,

967
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:04,880
and we have Burning Man and things like that.

968
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,880
But, you know, a hacker conference outdoors with tents

969
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,880
and things like that, does it really work?

970
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:12,880
Oh, yes.

971
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:13,880
Absolutely.

972
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,880
We did that the first time in 1993,

973
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,880
and it was really early to have an Ethernet out on the field

974
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,880
and all the tents connected to it,

975
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,880
and we've been improving on that ever since.

976
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,880
That was hackers at the end of the universe, right?

977
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:27,880
That was hacking at the end of the universe,

978
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,880
and later we had hacking in progress and hackers at large,

979
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:33,880
and this will be What The Hack.

980
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:34,880
Yeah.

981
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,880
So basically people, they build communities, right?

982
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,880
They have all kinds of different gatherings.

983
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,880
There's the BSD tent, the free BSD tent,

984
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,880
the open BSD tent, and the Linux area, the other side,

985
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:48,880
and there's even a Microsoft tent.

986
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,880
Yeah, we have to be careful whom we put next to each other.

987
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:52,880
Yeah, you do.

988
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:53,880
Otherwise fights might erupt.

989
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,880
All kinds of things.

990
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:57,880
Plus the stench of certain, well, never mind.

991
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,880
But so basically you have this huge area,

992
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,880
and somehow you get connectivity to this area.

993
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:04,880
Yes, yeah.

994
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,880
And it's really good connectivity too.

995
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:08,880
I don't know how you guys do it each time,

996
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,880
but you have better connectivity in the middle of a field

997
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,880
in the wilderness than we have in the middle of New York City.

998
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:15,880
Yeah, that's part of the hack.

999
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,880
Yes, I still don't understand it, but how do people get it?

1000
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:20,880
And telephone service too.

1001
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:22,880
Yeah, telephone service and everything.

1002
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:23,880
You have the DECT phones,

1003
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,880
which is like a little PBX you have out there in the wild.

1004
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,880
Well, the DECT phones are brought in by the Germans,

1005
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,880
the guys from the CCC.

1006
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:33,880
They had it on their hacker camping events,

1007
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:35,880
and it works really, really great.

1008
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,880
And the DECT phones replaced all the portals

1009
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,880
that were usually used by the organization.

1010
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,880
And every visitor can just bring their own DECT phone,

1011
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:46,880
and they can ask for a number,

1012
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,880
and they will be reachable on the field for free.

1013
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:50,880
Cool.

1014
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:51,880
Very cool.

1015
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,880
So how can folks get involved in this?

1016
00:49:54,880 --> 00:50:00,880
First thing to do is just go to the website www.whatthehack.org,

1017
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,880
and hack is spelled with H-A-C-K.

1018
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,880
Well, there you can read all the information about the dates

1019
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,880
and what we're going to do and about the price and everything.

1020
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,880
And you can also send an email to volunteer at whatthehack.org

1021
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:18,880
if you want to volunteer at the event.

1022
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,880
And volunteering is always a lot of fun

1023
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:23,880
because you're not really like a visitor,

1024
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:25,880
but you're a participant of the event.

1025
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:27,880
Well, it's great just to help build the community.

1026
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:29,880
You basically start off in a field,

1027
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:31,880
and before you know it, there's a city,

1028
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,880
a city that has really been built.

1029
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:34,880
Yeah, absolutely.

1030
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,880
A city with different neighborhoods and different communities in it.

1031
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:39,880
Yeah, the dangerous neighborhoods and the nice neighborhoods

1032
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,880
and all kinds of cool things like that.

1033
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:42,880
Well, I'm really looking forward to it.

1034
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:44,880
It's the Hacking Event of the Year.

1035
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,880
What are the dates?

1036
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,880
July 28th to 31st.

1037
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:49,880
Okay, so it's four days.

1038
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:50,880
It's four days.

1039
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:51,880
All right.

1040
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,880
And www.whatthehack.org,

1041
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,880
and you can sign up for mailing lists.

1042
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,880
You can get all kinds of updates.

1043
00:50:58,880 --> 00:50:59,880
It'll be a blast.

1044
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:00,880
Absolutely.

1045
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:01,880
It's going to be so cool.

1046
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:02,880
Yes, Bernie?

1047
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:03,880
I had a question, Hanneke.

1048
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,880
There's a mention on the website, www.whatthehack.org,

1049
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,880
that there may be payment options to buy tickets

1050
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,880
other than PayPal coming up soon.

1051
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,880
Do you know anything about that?

1052
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,880
No, at this moment I don't,

1053
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,880
but you could send an email to info at www.whatthehack.org

1054
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:23,880
to ask about that.

1055
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:24,880
Okay.

1056
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:25,880
All right.

1057
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:26,880
Mike?

1058
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,880
And in further news from Europe,

1059
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,880
if you are in Oslo and it is 7 a.m. on Wednesday,

1060
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,880
then you can hear off the hook on Radio Raquel,

1061
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,880
which I'm mispronouncing.

1062
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:39,880
Well, you're mispronouncing it very well.

1063
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:40,880
Thank you.

1064
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,880
99.3 FM.

1065
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:43,880
99.3?

1066
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:44,880
Wow.

1067
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,880
So it's just 200 kilohertz below us,

1068
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:50,880
but many miles away.

1069
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:51,880
Cool.

1070
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,880
One of the stations to carry us in addition to WBAI.

1071
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:55,880
Of course, we're on WBCQ,

1072
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,880
which is a shortwave station at 7415 kilohertz.

1073
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:01,880
Hope I get that right.

1074
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,880
And if you have a low-power FM station

1075
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:06,880
or a high-power FM station that wants to carry us,

1076
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,880
or even an AM station or a shortwave station or whatnot,

1077
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:10,880
let us know.

1078
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,880
Write to us, othat2600.com.

1079
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,880
We can provide you with a good quality feed

1080
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:18,880
or a copy of the show so you can air it,

1081
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:20,880
and it'll sound pretty neat.

1082
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:21,880
All right.

1083
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:22,880
Let's take another phone call.

1084
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:23,880
Good evening.

1085
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:25,880
Hello?

1086
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:26,880
Yes, go ahead.

1087
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:28,880
I better shut off my phone here.

1088
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:29,880
Okay.

1089
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:30,880
Okay, I'm sorry.

1090
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,880
I have a question pertaining to 911.

1091
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:35,880
All right, go ahead.

1092
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,880
I had an interesting thing happen a couple of weeks ago.

1093
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:40,880
I was on my way home from work.

1094
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,880
I work in the Bronx, crossing over the Whitestone Bridge.

1095
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,880
As I was traveling over the bridge,

1096
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,880
I noticed a truck that was on fire in the opposite direction.

1097
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,880
I attempted to call 911 to report it on my cell phone,

1098
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:56,880
and lo and behold,

1099
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,880
a red line appeared at the bottom of my phone,

1100
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,880
printed out in text,

1101
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,880
stating that I had to dial an additional star

1102
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,880
and then number in order to contact 911.

1103
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:12,880
What service do you have?

1104
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,880
I have Sprint.

1105
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:17,880
Okay, that's interesting.

1106
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:19,880
No, it has nothing to do with Sprint, sir.

1107
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:20,880
That's the thing.

1108
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,880
I contacted Sprint as soon as I got home.

1109
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:25,880
I immediately hung up the phone and called again.

1110
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,880
I thought there was a problem.

1111
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,880
Sprint insists that it's something that the city of New York

1112
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,880
has input into their 911 system

1113
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,880
in order to find out who's calling.

1114
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,880
I live outside of the city of New York.

1115
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:40,880
I have a different area code.

1116
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:42,880
That's possibly the reason.

1117
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:43,880
I'm not sure.

1118
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:45,880
I don't know, because they know where you're calling from

1119
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:46,880
when you dial 911.

1120
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:48,880
Not on a cell phone.

1121
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,880
No, sir, they do not.

1122
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:53,880
No, I was in communications in the military.

1123
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:55,880
I'm retired.

1124
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:57,880
And you can't track it

1125
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,880
unless you specifically know exactly

1126
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:02,880
where you're looking for the number.

1127
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,880
Well, as far as location,

1128
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:06,880
that's still something that they haven't yet perfected.

1129
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:07,880
It won't show a location.

1130
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:08,880
Right.

1131
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:09,880
It won't show a location.

1132
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:10,880
All it shows is...

1133
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:11,880
A phone number.

1134
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:12,880
A phone number.

1135
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:14,880
And it's showing a phone number

1136
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:16,880
that is a different area code

1137
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,880
from where they're receiving the information.

1138
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,880
So they're apparently asking for...

1139
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:24,880
Well, in this particular case,

1140
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:25,880
it said star.

1141
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:27,880
It was in bright red

1142
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:29,880
across the bottom of my phone.

1143
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,880
That's very strange.

1144
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:33,880
I'd like to know if anybody else has stories like that.

1145
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:37,880
We'll certainly keep our eyes open.

1146
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:38,880
But that's weird.

1147
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:39,880
That's very strange.

1148
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,880
911 should always just work.

1149
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:43,880
And thanks for telling us about that.

1150
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:45,880
We'd love to hear any other stories.

1151
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:47,880
See if we can fit in one more phone call, though.

1152
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:48,880
We're running out of time.

1153
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:49,880
Good evening.

1154
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:50,880
You're on the air.

1155
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:51,880
Yeah.

1156
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:52,880
Quick question.

1157
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:53,880
You...

1158
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:54,880
I was on,

1159
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:55,880
and the phone was ringing

1160
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:56,880
and ringing and ringing.

1161
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,880
When you picked up that previous caller,

1162
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,880
I went to a fast busy.

1163
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:01,880
Just immediately,

1164
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:02,880
both of them were fast busy.

1165
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:03,880
I don't think anything

1166
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:04,880
with picking up the last caller.

1167
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:05,880
I think what happened was

1168
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:06,880
whatever company you used to call us

1169
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:07,880
timed out at that point.

1170
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:08,880
Right.

1171
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:10,880
Right on the button there.

1172
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:11,880
Yeah.

1173
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:12,880
The...

1174
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:13,880
I think that the

1175
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:15,880
DHS or whoever it was

1176
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:17,880
that was searching the vehicle

1177
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:18,880
and wants you to go away.

1178
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:19,880
Right.

1179
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:21,880
They don't want you to...

1180
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:22,880
They don't want you to see

1181
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:23,880
what they're doing.

1182
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:24,880
In other words,

1183
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,880
see what they're overlooking.

1184
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:28,880
If you scrutinize what they're doing,

1185
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:29,880
you'll find a place

1186
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,880
where you may want to

1187
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,880
put the contraband.

1188
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:34,880
Ah.

1189
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:35,880
So you might get some hints

1190
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:36,880
as to what they...

1191
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:37,880
But everybody has their own weaknesses

1192
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:39,880
as far as agencies.

1193
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:40,880
You know,

1194
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:41,880
some will search one place,

1195
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:42,880
some will search another.

1196
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:43,880
I don't know if that's really

1197
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:44,880
the reason.

1198
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:45,880
Exactly.

1199
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:46,880
Well,

1200
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:47,880
if you watched them all,

1201
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:48,880
then you'd be able to

1202
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:49,880
create quite a list.

1203
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:50,880
Yeah.

1204
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:51,880
That means you have to

1205
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:52,880
keep going back

1206
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:53,880
and keep getting

1207
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:54,880
searched everywhere.

1208
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:55,880
And I think they'd raise flags

1209
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:56,880
on you for that reason alone.

1210
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:57,880
But interesting theory, though.

1211
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:58,880
I'll tell you where they didn't search,

1212
00:55:58,880 --> 00:55:59,880
which was on my person.

1213
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:00,880
That's true.

1214
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:01,880
They didn't search our persons at all.

1215
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:02,880
Interesting.

1216
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:03,880
Okay.

1217
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:04,880
Well,

1218
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:05,880
I just ran out of time,

1219
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:06,880
but Redbird,

1220
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:07,880
you were in Boston

1221
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:08,880
over the past couple of days.

1222
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:09,880
I got a chance to check out

1223
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:10,880
the public transit system there.

1224
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:11,880
It's called MBTA.

1225
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:12,880
Yes.

1226
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:13,880
And that's, I think,

1227
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:14,880
the oldest subway

1228
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:15,880
in the States.

1229
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:16,880
Is that right, Mike?

1230
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:17,880
They claim it to be.

1231
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:18,880
All right.

1232
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:19,880
Yeah.

1233
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:20,880
So,

1234
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:21,880
it's very complicated.

1235
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:22,880
Do you want to just

1236
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:23,880
briefly give us—

1237
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:24,880
The fare payment options

1238
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:25,880
are very complicated.

1239
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:26,880
I don't understand it.

1240
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:27,880
Okay.

1241
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:28,880
So I can't explain it.

1242
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:29,880
Well,

1243
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:30,880
sometimes you pay to get on,

1244
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:31,880
sometimes you pay to get off.

1245
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:32,880
They have stops

1246
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:33,880
where you pay to get off.

1247
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:34,880
I can't explain it,

1248
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:35,880
and it's really not worth it.

1249
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:36,880
If you want some fun, though,

1250
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:37,880
if you can find that web page,

1251
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:38,880
I don't know what it is offhand,

1252
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:39,880
but there's a description

1253
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:40,880
of all different types

1254
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:41,880
of fare structures,

1255
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:42,880
and you need a college degree

1256
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:43,880
to figure it all out.

1257
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:44,880
MBTA.org.

1258
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:45,880
Yeah.

1259
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:46,880
But what was great

1260
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:47,880
about the system

1261
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,880
is the lack of surveillance.

1262
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:50,880
Like,

1263
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:51,880
in the New York City subway,

1264
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:52,880
you really feel like

1265
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:53,880
you're being watched now.

1266
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:54,880
Everywhere you look,

1267
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:55,880
there's a surveillance camera.

1268
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:56,880
If you see something,

1269
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:57,880
say something.

1270
00:56:57,880 --> 00:56:58,880
That, too.

1271
00:56:58,880 --> 00:56:59,880
You know,

1272
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:00,880
cops all over the place.

1273
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:02,880
I saw very few cops,

1274
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:04,880
very few surveillance cameras,

1275
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:06,880
maybe one or two total.

1276
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:08,880
And I took pictures

1277
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:10,880
in front of the cops,

1278
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:11,880
which you're not able to do here

1279
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:12,880
without getting interrogated.

1280
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:13,880
Wow.

1281
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:14,880
Yes.

1282
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:15,880
So you can still have

1283
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:16,880
a degree of freedom

1284
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:17,880
in the Boston subway

1285
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:18,880
and not feel like

1286
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:19,880
you're being watched

1287
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:20,880
all the time.

1288
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:21,880
Yes, and they have

1289
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:22,880
very funny messages.

1290
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:23,880
Can I read one?

1291
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:24,880
Yeah, go ahead.

1292
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:25,880
Sure.

1293
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:26,880
They had a sign that said,

1294
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:27,880
big letters,

1295
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:28,880
we're sorry,

1296
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:29,880
and underneath it

1297
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:30,880
it read,

1298
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:31,880
for your protection and safety,

1299
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:32,880
and under that,

1300
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:33,880
we have removed

1301
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:34,880
the trash barrels

1302
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:35,880
in this station.

1303
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:36,880
New and safe trash barrels

1304
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:37,880
have been ordered,

1305
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:38,880
in the coming term,

1306
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:39,880
please help by carrying

1307
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:40,880
any personal trash

1308
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:41,880
or refuse

1309
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:42,880
to the next available

1310
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:43,880
trash receptacle

1311
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:44,880
you encounter.

1312
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:45,880
Again, we thank you

1313
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:46,880
for your help

1314
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:47,880
in these trying times.

1315
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:48,880
These trying times.

1316
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:49,880
Well, they've had that

1317
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:50,880
in London

1318
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:51,880
for quite some time, too.

1319
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:52,880
So removing trash cans,

1320
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:53,880
and they've done that

1321
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:54,880
in New York as well

1322
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:55,880
during New Year's.

1323
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:56,880
Well, we're just

1324
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:57,880
about out of time,

1325
00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:58,880
but interesting point.

1326
00:57:58,880 --> 00:57:59,880
There's a famous song,

1327
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:00,880
we're going to go out

1328
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:01,880
with this famous song,

1329
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:02,880
having to do with

1330
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:03,880
the Metropolitan Bay,

1331
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:04,880
no,

1332
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:05,880
the Massachusetts

1333
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:06,880
Bay Transit Authority,

1334
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:07,880
this guy named Charlie

1335
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:08,880
got stuck on the train,

1336
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:09,880
he didn't have the fare

1337
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:10,880
to get off,

1338
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:11,880
because you need to pay

1339
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:12,880
to get off sometimes,

1340
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:13,880
and so he was forever

1341
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:14,880
stuck on this train

1342
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:16,880
riding around in circles.

1343
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:17,880
And the funny thing

1344
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:18,880
about this,

1345
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:19,880
this is a famous song,

1346
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:20,880
I think it came

1347
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:21,880
from the 60s,

1348
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:22,880
the MBTA is actually

1349
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:23,880
issuing a new fare card,

1350
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:24,880
and they're calling it

1351
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:25,880
the Charlie card

1352
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:26,880
in honor of the song.

1353
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:27,880
Right, I've noticed

1354
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:28,880
it looks like a very,

1355
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:29,880
very, like,

1356
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:30,880
quick hack

1357
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:31,880
to what is now

1358
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:32,880
a turnstile system

1359
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:34,880
with tokens,

1360
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:36,880
and it just doesn't

1361
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:37,880
look very professionally

1362
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:38,880
done at all.

1363
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:39,880
Okay.

1364
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:40,880
That's going to do it

1365
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:41,880
for us this week,

1366
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:42,880
so hopefully the CD player,

1367
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:43,880
which is the same CD player,

1368
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:44,880
since we only have

1369
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:45,880
one semi-working one,

1370
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:46,880
won't mess this up

1371
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:47,880
as bad as it did the intro.

1372
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:48,880
If it does, I'm sorry.

1373
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:50,880
We'll see you next week.

1374
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:54,880
These are the times

1375
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:55,880
that try men's souls.

1376
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:56,880
In the course

1377
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:57,880
of our nation's history,

1378
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:58,880
the people of Boston

1379
00:58:58,880 --> 00:58:59,880
have rallied bravely

1380
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:00,880
whenever the rights

1381
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:01,880
of men have been threatened.

1382
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:02,880
Today, a new crisis

1383
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:03,880
has arisen.

1384
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:04,880
The Metropolitan

1385
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:05,880
Transit Authority,

1386
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:06,880
better known as the MTA,

1387
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:07,880
is attempting to levy

1388
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:08,880
a burdensome tax

1389
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:09,880
on the population

1390
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:10,880
in the form of

1391
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:11,880
a subway fare increase.

1392
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:12,880
Citizens, hear me out.

1393
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,880
This could happen to you.

1394
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:25,880
Well, let me tell you

1395
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:26,880
of the story

1396
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,880
of a man named Charlie

1397
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:29,880
On a tragic

1398
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:31,880
and fateful day

1399
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:33,880
He put ten cents

1400
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:34,880
in his pocket

1401
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:35,880
Kissed his wife and family

1402
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:36,880
Went to ride

1403
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:38,880
on the MTA

1404
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:40,880
Well, did he ever return?

1405
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:42,880
No, he never returned

1406
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:43,880
And his fate

1407
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:45,880
is still unlearned

1408
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:47,880
He may ride forever

1409
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:49,880
Neat the streets of Boston

1410
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:50,880
He's the man

1411
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:52,880
who never returned

1412
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:53,880
Charlie handed in

1413
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:54,880
his dime

1414
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:55,880
at the Kendall Square Station

1415
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:56,880
And he changed

1416
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:58,880
for Jamaica Plain

1417
00:59:58,880 --> 00:59:59,880
When he got there

1418
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:00,880
the conductor

1419
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:02,880
told him one more nickel

1420
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:03,880
Charlie couldn't

1421
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:05,880
get off of that train

1422
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:06,880
But did he ever return?

1423
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:08,880
No, he never returned

1424
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:09,880
And his fate

1425
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:11,880
is still unlearned

1426
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:13,880
He may ride forever

1427
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,880
Neat the streets of Boston

1428
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:16,880
He's the man

1429
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:18,880
who never returned

1430
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:20,880
Now all night long

1431
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:21,880
Charlie rides

1432
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:22,880
through the station

1433
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:23,880
crying

1434
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:25,880
What will become of me?

1435
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:26,880
How can I afford

1436
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:28,880
to see my sister

1437
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:29,880
in Chelsea

1438
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:30,880
and my cousin

1439
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:32,880
in Roxbury?

1440
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:34,880
But did he ever return?

1441
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:36,880
No, he never returned

1442
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:37,880
And his fate

1443
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:39,880
is still unlearned

1444
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:41,880
He may ride forever

1445
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:42,880
Ha ha ha

1446
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:43,880
Yes, you're listening

1447
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:45,880
to WBAI New York

1448
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:47,880
99.5 FM