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I'm Loretta Ross, co-chair of the National March for Women's Lives on April 25th here

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in Washington, D.C.

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Everyone should join us because this march is about our lives, our human rights.

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We have to march together to oppose racism, anti-immigration policies, the denial of health

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care, the denial of welfare.

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We have to march against unjust wars.

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In fact, our very bodies and our right to control them are under attack by the Bush

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administration.

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For more information, go to www.marchforwomen.org or call 202-349-3838.

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We have to march together on April 25th as if our lives depend on it because they do.

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And it's seven o'clock, time once again for Off the Hook on WBAI New York.

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And a

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program is Off the Hook.

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Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.

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We've got a packed house tonight.

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Jeff, you're back.

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Yes, I made a pack.

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Well, that's good.

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That's good.

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We were worried about you last week.

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Well, I got the call from my bus driver telling me that if I hadn't started, don't bother.

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I would be late.

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The city was closed, huh?

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Exactly.

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Okay.

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Mike is here.

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Hi.

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Jim is here.

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Yes.

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Lynn is here.

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Hello.

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And Red Hack is here.

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Hello.

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We're going to have a great night.

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He is busy with chaos and mayhem down in Philadelphia.

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The good kind, I think, not the bad kind.

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It doesn't usually stop him.

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No, it doesn't usually stop him, but it stopped him tonight.

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So we have the code, though.

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The code does work.

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I tested it.

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I called some random person to make sure it worked, and it did go through.

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So if we need to make any long-distance phone calls, we can do it.

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We have the ability.

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We have the means.

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That's good.

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And we have the desire, certainly.

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Anybody have any stories that they'd like to share with the populace, with us here in

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the studio?

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I've got a couple of trivial things.

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Jim, you have a whole stack of newspapers.

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Well, yeah, yeah.

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But only a couple are of amusement.

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Some may be of interest, but only a couple are what I like to bring up.

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You've got the funny pages there, I see.

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The comics and...

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Well, this is comic in its own way, especially if you dislike Verizon, as so many of us do.

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Okay.

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It seems that the city of New York is suing Verizon because Verizon hasn't paid its franchise

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fees to be allowed to run telephone lines under the streets since 1881.

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So...

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You mean they have to pay since 1881?

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1881?

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1881.

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So Verizon has to pay to have its wires underneath the streets?

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Well, that's a good question.

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In 1881, the city granted the authority to run underground telephone lines to a company

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called the Metropolitan Telephone and Telegraph Company.

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And...

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MT&T?

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Well...

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All right, whatever.

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They eventually were taken over, became...

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Their successor now is Verizon.

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And apparently they haven't paid.

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Of course, it was AT&T, New York Telephone, 9X by Atlantic, now it's Verizon.

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Exactly.

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Okay.

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You can see how things might get lost in the shuffle.

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I don't understand.

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That's one heck of a debt.

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I mean, how do you...

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What kind of collection agency did they have?

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Obviously none.

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That allowed it to go for 120 years.

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It got lost in the shuffle.

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I understand there was an agreement made that because they carried the 911 lines and, you know, it was a wash.

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Some people are saying some things like that, but...

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They have 911 in 1881?

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I was going to say, 911 started what?

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Late 60s?

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How did you call the cops back in the 1800s?

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Very loud.

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I guess you shouted out your window or something like that.

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Okay, but there were phone lines.

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I was under the impression there were phone lines above the street for a good part of the time.

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If you look at pictures of New York City at the turn of the century, you can't see the sky because of all the phone lines.

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The blizzard of 1888 created the first push to put telephone lines underground because the blizzard took down an awful lot of lines.

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Photographs taken a few days afterwards show phone lines down all over.

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And there were power lines, too.

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There weren't that many power lines, surprisingly.

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Phone trucks were out night and day trying to fix all that.

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Horse-drawn phone carriages.

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Anyway, the case is in federal court, but a federal appeals court back in March sent a similar case

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because it seems that the city of Rome, New York is also suing Verizon for the same thing.

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And they sent that back to the state court, and that may happen to the Verizon case.

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What happens if they win and Verizon doesn't pay?

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Do they kick Verizon out of the city?

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That would be interesting.

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Remove their wires from underneath the street?

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All right, well, you know, it's going to be fun to see what happens with that.

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Whose idea was it to suddenly make this lawsuit happen?

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I really can't figure, except Bloomberg is definitely supporting this big time.

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Uh-huh.

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And the interesting thing is...

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Because it's crazy or just because it's...

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Because it's a good source of money without raising taxes.

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How many votes does Verizon have, right?

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But the interesting thing is I read from the lawsuit, which quotes the resolution enacted December 18, 1881

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by the New York City Board of Aldermen, predecessor of the city council,

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pursuant to section 18 of the 1873 city charter.

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Now, an aside here, they may argue that it was only Manhattan then, so it only applies to Manhattan.

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But anyway, at that time, for each street opened and used by the company for the purpose of laying its lines

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of electrical conductors, it shall pay a sum equal to one cent for each linear foot.

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There are millions of phones in this city.

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This is a lot of money.

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Yeah, and assuming it even keeps at that rate.

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Yeah.

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That's a lot of things.

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Even if the rate goes down by even a hundredfold.

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I have a feeling, though, that Verizon might raise some rates in response to this.

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All-time war of the centuries, two centuries.

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If nothing else, it's interesting.

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Actually, three centuries, 1800s, 1900s, and 2000s.

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And I just upgraded for another two-year plan with Verizon.

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How about that?

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I hope your rate's locked.

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Okay, well, you think that's bad.

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Major companies and government agencies are scrambling to ensure they are not vulnerable to an Internet flaw

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that would allow attacks that could disrupt all communication.

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This is the TCP brand-new flaw?

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Yeah, but it will disrupt all communication, including the communication we're having here in this room, apparently.

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Wow.

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This is something big.

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What do you know about it, Mike?

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There's nothing new, as far as I can tell.

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The Department of Homeland Security issued a technical cybersecurity alert on Tuesday,

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and they don't do that every day, do they?

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A technical cybersecurity alert.

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Does that mean anything at all?

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Well, it means that...

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Did they just invent that?

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Yeah, of course they did.

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Anyway, they warned that sustained attacks on routers between networks could lead to a denial-of-service condition

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that could affect a large segment of the Internet community.

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And you say this is nothing?

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It's nothing new, is what I said.

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Okay, but if you quote after the nothing, it says...

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All right, never mind.

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That's how the Daily News gets their quotes.

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Well, yeah.

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All right.

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We try and be a little more accurate, especially when the person we're quoting is in the room.

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That's true.

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But basically, it's possible on the Internet to spoof packets to pretend they came from anywhere,

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and by doing so correctly, you can shut down connections, Internet connections,

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or kind of logical, fake Internet connections.

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And if you do this in the correct way, you can shut down real Internet connections, is the theory.

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Well, according to Paul Vixie, he's the president of Internet Systems Consortium, Inc.,

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he compared the risk to Internet users running naked through the jungle,

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which didn't matter until somebody released some tigers.

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I would imagine even if you're running with clothing through the jungle and tigers get released,

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there would be a concern.

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The bugs alone could eat you alive.

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But only if you're naked.

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I don't understand that metaphor.

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It's a bad metaphor.

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Paul Vixie, you can do better than that.

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Try again.

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He continues, it's a significant risk.

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The larger Internet providers are jumping on this big time.

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It's really important this just gets fixed before the bad guys start exploiting it for fun and recognition.

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Was that a shot?

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I think that's a shot at hackers.

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Fun and recognition.

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The bad guys.

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What's that all about?

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Criminals.

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Yeah.

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Well, I mean...

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Not hackers.

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More typical denial-of-service attacks involve large numbers of computers

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sending huge amounts of data to routers and overwhelming them.

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This particular one shows, it's said to allow an attacker to insert data

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and trick routers into shutting down network sessions, disrupting a network's communication.

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It all falls under the realm of Transmission Control Protocol, TCP,

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which works in the background sort of like traffic laws to keep Internet data running smoothly.

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So how hard is this to fix?

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Well, I don't know.

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I guess they're working on it.

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That doesn't say anything about fixing it.

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I think it's one of these things that is just such a flaw that happens all the time

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that we just have to always live in a state of fear.

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That's the impression I got from this.

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Is that next to New Jersey, the state of fear?

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No, it's all over. It's all-encompassing.

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But as long as we're in the subject of fear and having to worry about things around us...

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Mobile phones.

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You hear about the mobile phone that exploded last week?

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That's right.

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April 13th, a mobile phone exploded today

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and slightly injured the man who had been talking into it, according to local broadcasters.

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This was in Hong...

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Was this Hong Kong? I believe it was.

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Yes.

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The man was standing in line at a bank when the phone mysteriously blew up.

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According to the ATV network out of Australia, which is reporting what happened in Hong Kong,

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ATV showed footage of phone pieces laying on the floor of the bank lobby

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with police gathered around the scene.

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I was just calling my boss to say I would be returning to work a few minutes late

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and when I pressed the button to hang up, the phone was suddenly flying everywhere, the man said.

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I would say this guy's boss has an awful lot of power

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and you don't want to anger this guy.

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What happened?

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Imagine, just saying you're going to be a few minutes late and your phone explodes.

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Boy.

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Are we sure that the guy didn't take a vacation to Israel and swap it with some poor Palestinian?

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Well, apparently, he doesn't say he's an enemy of Israel or anything like that,

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so they probably would have had a rocket land on him if he was.

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The broadcast reports gave no indication about how it could have exploded,

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but many similar accidents have been attributed to faulty or counterfeit batteries.

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Counterfeit batteries, the ones that explode.

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The man said he was only slightly hurt with some slivers of telephone parts

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getting into his eye and scraping his hand.

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He said he bought the phone secondhand, another no-no.

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Counterfeit batteries, secondhand phone, being late to the office,

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those are all things you want to avoid if you don't want your phone to explode in your head.

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Are we talking about aftermarket batteries?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Yeah, we've discussed this before,

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the bit where they were telling people don't make phone calls when you're pumping your gas.

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Who's the manufacturer that insisted that it was gray market batteries and third provider batteries?

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Might have been Motorola, but don't hold me to that.

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The last line of this article, I'm not sure if it's a joke,

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police did not immediately answer when the Associated Press rang seeking comment.

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I don't know.

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Hopefully, they weren't ringing them on their cell phones.

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You just mentioned talking about the gas station.

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One thing I've noticed, I make sure my car is unlocked and ready to just...

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I cannot use a key in my lock without generating a spark.

252
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,760
And at a gas station, that would disturb me.

253
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,760
So don't start your car at a gas station.

254
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,760
No, I'm talking about the door lock.

255
00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:37,760
Don't lock your car at a gas station.

256
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,760
Don't lock your car, because you've got to use the little piece to unlock it.

257
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,760
And you're creating a little connection there.

258
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,760
And when I put the key in, I see the spark.

259
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:47,760
That's good.

260
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:48,760
More people should do that.

261
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,760
This is a static spark?

262
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,760
If a gas station ever blows up around you, we're going to know what caused it.

263
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,760
I've never had that happen to my car.

264
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:56,760
You don't get a spark at all?

265
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,760
I don't get a spark, no.

266
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,760
In fact, I don't think I've ever gotten a spark in my car at all.

267
00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,760
I get a spark all the time in my house when I touch things.

268
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,760
But in my car, I never get a spark.

269
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,760
Microphone? Is it on?

270
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:13,760
Why would you have to lock your car at a gas station?

271
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,760
At most, you're going to be like 10 feet away in the...

272
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:17,760
No, no, no. I realize that.

273
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,760
But sometimes you might go to the trunk to open something up

274
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,760
while you're waiting for the gas to pump, move something forward, whatever.

275
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,760
I try to maximize time.

276
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,760
But I'm getting...

277
00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:28,760
Don't go to your trunk. There's a lock there.

278
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,760
You have to put the key in.

279
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,760
This is just yet another thing to be worried about, which I don't know if it's...

280
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,760
That's our theme for the show.

281
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:36,760
Yeah.

282
00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:37,760
Okay, let's talk about the elections.

283
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,760
Mike, you had something to say about the elections in India.

284
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,760
It's taking place on all electronic voting...

285
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:46,760
EVMs, they call them.

286
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:47,760
EVMs.

287
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:48,760
Electronic voting machines.

288
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:49,760
Wow.

289
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:56,760
And if you want to get more information, they have a website, www.eci.gov.in

290
00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:02,760
slash FAQ slash E-L-E-C-V-T-M-A-C-H dot H-T-M.

291
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,760
Or you can just go to the first part of it and click EVMs.

292
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,760
www.eci.gov.in

293
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:09,760
Yeah.

294
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:10,760
Okay.

295
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,760
And what's interesting about these machines is that they're kind of stupid machines.

296
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,760
They look more like 10-year-old electronic calculators

297
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,760
than the stupid fancy Windows machines that Diebold installs.

298
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,760
So they're a lot harder, as far as I can tell, to tamper with.

299
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,760
The Indian government asserts that they're impossible to tamper with,

300
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,760
which who knows if they're telling the truth or not.

301
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:38,760
But they're a lot more one piece.

302
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,760
I mean, they're an electronic device rather than a whole computer

303
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,760
that just happens to be running voting software today.

304
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:52,760
So they seem a lot more secure than the ones that are being proposed for use in this country.

305
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,760
What about mechanical machines that are already in use in New York?

306
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,760
I mean, I'm not sure that they're all that much worse

307
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,760
than the electromechanical machines that they use in New York.

308
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,760
I'm not really qualified to judge, but they seem about as hard to tamper with.

309
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,760
How do they transmit the results?

310
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,760
Do they carry them physically like they have to do with the mechanical machines?

311
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,760
The machines in India, there's two parts.

312
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,760
There's a control unit and a balloting unit.

313
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:25,760
And the control unit is in control of the election clerk,

314
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:31,760
and the balloting unit is inside the partition, the curtain.

315
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,760
And so when you press the button on the balloting unit,

316
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,760
it sends a signal to the control unit, which then registers the vote.

317
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,760
At the end of the day, they shut the machine down.

318
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,760
They press the close election button on the control unit,

319
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:49,760
and then they take it in full view of the candidates' observers

320
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:54,760
to the central location where they somehow do magic to get the votes out.

321
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,760
I see. And the only problem is, of course,

322
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,760
there are people that want to press those buttons early and stop the election.

323
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,760
So there's been some violence over there,

324
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,760
but you can't really blame that on the electronic voting so much,

325
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,760
or just people that don't like elections at this particular time.

326
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:13,760
The Ministry of Elections, or whatever they're called,

327
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,760
their FAQ is kind of actually informative

328
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:20,760
in kind of how different elections are there from here.

329
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,760
First of all, you have the worries that people pressing this machine

330
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,760
are going to get an electric shock because a lot of these regions—

331
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,760
There's going to be chips around. Certainly that's going to happen.

332
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,760
A lot of these regions don't have electricity,

333
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,760
so these are battery-powered machines,

334
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,760
but they're unfamiliar to a lot of the voters.

335
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,760
And you have how these machines are resistant

336
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,760
to if people with weapons come into the voting booth

337
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,760
and try and sabotage the election.

338
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,760
How will these machines prevent that?

339
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,760
I don't think any machine is going to prevent that.

340
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,760
I think it's a question of how quickly you can destroy it.

341
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,760
How quickly you can prevent wrong votes from being tallied,

342
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,760
as opposed to—

343
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,760
The only way to know for sure is to try and do just that,

344
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,760
to open it up to everybody and say,

345
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,760
okay, let's make a fraudulent election and see if we can get away with it.

346
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,760
That's really the only way you're ever going to know for sure if the system works.

347
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,760
We're supposed to be reassured because the microchips are made in the USA.

348
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,760
You've been assured by the Indian government it has to work.

349
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,760
Oh, if they say so, I guess that's true.

350
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,760
Let's see. Let's look at some listener mail.

351
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,760
Of course, you can send mail to us, othat2600.com.

352
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:40,760
This is from somebody who noticed that John Kerry showed up in their town of Pittsburgh,

353
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,760
ending his campus tour here.

354
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,760
I went to the event and it was full. Bon Jovi showed up and others.

355
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,760
Oh, boy, it was really interesting.

356
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,760
When I saw the Secret Service, I felt a bit of unease, though.

357
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,760
You mentioned that you received a letter from the Bush-Cheney campaign.

358
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,760
I received a similar letter a few months ago from the Republican National Committee, RNC.

359
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,760
By the way, Lynn, you saw a sign uptown about the upcoming Republican convention.

360
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,760
What did it say exactly?

361
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,760
It had a picture of Koch on it and it said,

362
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,760
The Republicans are coming. Make nice.

363
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,760
Go ahead.

364
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,760
Koch is the official spokesman for the city.

365
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,760
The city is looking for volunteers for the convention,

366
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,760
people to essentially guide Republicans who are from Oshkosh or wherever

367
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,760
to the various sites and tourist attractions.

368
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,760
To guide the Republicans to wherever the guy decides to guide them.

369
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:31,760
Hand out maps.

370
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:32,760
Well, theoretically.

371
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,760
Hand out maps, tell them where there's a Chinese restaurant or whatever,

372
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,760
the Statue of Liberty is, the Bronx is up, the Battery is down, that sort of thing.

373
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,760
Or introduce them to a nice little club called the Lincoln Tunnel or something like that.

374
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:42,760
Whatever.

375
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,760
Yeah, okay. I like that idea.

376
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,760
I didn't even know that Kerry had an album out.

377
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,760
Well, apparently, yeah, it's doing quite well, in fact.

378
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,760
But continuing here, this guy received a letter from the RNC,

379
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,760
signed by Ed Gillespie, the chairman, along with Bill Frist and Tom DeLay.

380
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,760
The letter insisted that I was a registered Republican

381
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,760
and that Bush needed my help to energize Republicans like me.

382
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,760
Also asking for a contribution of $500, $250, $150, or even $25.

383
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,760
So similar letters can be sent to other registered Republicans

384
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,760
so they can be registered.

385
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,760
It doesn't make sense, I know, but that's how the letter went.

386
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,760
It had my name and address, too, and I wondered where they got my info from.

387
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,760
I mean, yeah, how are people being labeled as registered Republicans when they're not?

388
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,760
This gets better, though.

389
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:27,760
Yeah, it does.

390
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,760
First of all, I want Bush out of the White House.

391
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,760
Second, I am not even a citizen.

392
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,760
I am one of the students who came from a Middle Eastern country

393
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,760
and was harassed by the INS.

394
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,760
What made them think I would want to help them out?

395
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:39,760
I am from Kuwait.

396
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,760
I supported the war because I wanted to see Saddam get punished

397
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,760
for the war crimes that he committed.

398
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,760
However, I was disappointed by the lies of the administration,

399
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:47,760
like claiming that there is somehow a link between Saddam and a terrorist.

400
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,760
And I am disappointed by the way the administration is handling the post-war Iraq.

401
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,760
They are doing a horrible job just for lying and disrespecting the minds of the people.

402
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,760
I think that's reason enough for getting him out of the White House.

403
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,760
But yet this guy is probably going to get more mail from the Republicans

404
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,760
saying we need more people like you.

405
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,760
Well, I agree with them on that, I guess.

406
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,760
Okay, this person writes in.

407
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,760
Good show on April 14th, last week.

408
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,760
I know you're busy, but I just wanted to make a brief comment regarding Mr. Bush's speech.

409
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,760
Let me say I agree with you.

410
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,760
I think that the leader of a country, especially a huge influential country,

411
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:22,760
should be able to speak coherently and argue cogently on at least a college freshman level.

412
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,760
It's embarrassing, if not humiliating, to have a man representing me

413
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,760
who simply cannot deliver a written speech.

414
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,760
And actually, I did a little research on this.

415
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,760
If you recall, last week we were mentioning this.

416
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,760
So we had a degree talking about a line that Mr. Bush said.

417
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:42,760
And I said if I was proven to be wrong, if it was just a typo that said something,

418
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,760
what was it, this has been tough weeks in that country.

419
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,760
I said that could be a typo, and if it was, I would admit it.

420
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,760
And I think I'm man enough to do that.

421
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,760
Good evening.

422
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,760
And before I take your questions,

423
00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:01,760
let me speak with the American people about the situation in Iraq.

424
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,760
This has been tough weeks in that country.

425
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,760
Okay, and I'm also man enough to admit when I'm right.

426
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,760
So that's, it gets better, listen to this.

427
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:16,760
Coalition forces have encountered serious violence in some areas of Iraq.

428
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,760
Our military commanders report that this violence is being instigated by three groups.

429
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,760
Yes, a new word, instigated.

430
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,760
Go run to your dictionaries and look that one up.

431
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,760
Actually, if you plug instigated into Google, you'll find all these Bush links.

432
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,760
Apparently, he's responsible for the creation of a lot of words.

433
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,760
There are books being written about this.

434
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,760
But yeah, that was a bit of fun from last week's press conference.

435
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,760
Let me continue with this letter, though.

436
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,760
Then there's the cerebral spontaneity of effectively answering a question.

437
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,760
Sure, it's political policy to not really answer a question,

438
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:51,760
but to listen to him stumble and weave drunkenly through an evasive answer is like flesh on glass shards.

439
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,760
I've listened to him in Q&A sessions with Tony Blair and Vladimir Putin,

440
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,760
and every time, without exception, his answers are shallow, rambling, largely irrelevant,

441
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,760
pathetic when compared to those of the other fellows.

442
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,760
Is it too much to ask that the leader of a country be able to talk his way through things impressively?

443
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,760
But then again, Mr. Bush is the simpleton's president.

444
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,760
Who's he trying to impress? Signed, Justin Brain.

445
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,760
Thank you, Justin Brain, for your thoughts on that.

446
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:19,760
Interesting. Very interesting remarks.

447
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,760
It makes me want to listen to the president all the more to see what comes up next.

448
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,760
But this is something a bit more serious.

449
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,760
Bush is pushing for renewal of the Patriot Act pretty strongly now.

450
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,760
On Saturday, he urged the U.S. Congress to renew the Patriot Act.

451
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:39,760
The post-September 11, 2001 law that beefs up law enforcement powers

452
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,760
as he sought to highlight his national security credentials.

453
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:48,760
The president sees his pledge to keep America safe as a cornerstone of his argument for re-election,

454
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:55,760
but his image as a leader on fighting terror took a hit amid recent public hearings by the commission investigating 9-11.

455
00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,760
Bush said in his weekly radio address, key elements of the Patriot Act are set to expire next year.

456
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,760
Isn't it this year they're set to expire?

457
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,760
I think so.

458
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,760
He can't get the year right that they expire? I mean, unless he said it last year.

459
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:08,760
No, he said it this week.

460
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:14,760
Anyway, some politicians in Washington act as if the threat to America will also expire on that schedule.

461
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,760
Is that right? On that schedule? I'm not going to get into that.

462
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:18,760
That's right.

463
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:19,760
Is that right?

464
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,760
He could instigate his executive power and just make it stick longer.

465
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:24,760
You said instigate, didn't you?

466
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:25,760
Instigate.

467
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:26,760
You said instigate.

468
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:27,760
I said instigate.

469
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,760
Because the Patriot Act, if you look, CNN.com has a poll today,

470
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,760
was it today or was it yesterday, on whether or not the Patriot Act should be renewed,

471
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,760
and most people say no, by a large margin.

472
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,760
And I have a feeling this thing is going to sail through anyway,

473
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,760
because they're not really going to take people's thoughts into account,

474
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:51,760
or there's going to be some other major security issue or scare that we all have to deal with.

475
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,760
Well, why start now with the taking people's thoughts into account?

476
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,760
Well, you know, it's particularly important.

477
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:57,760
I'm not sure how long.

478
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,760
This thing was enacted in 2001, it's now 2004, so that was three years.

479
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,760
I don't know if it will be for another three years or another 30 years,

480
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,760
but that's something that affects everybody on all levels.

481
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,760
I was actually watching, I think it was CNN at work,

482
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,760
and I happened to tune in at a moment where Wolf Blitzer was talking to

483
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,760
some person in the Bush administration about the renewal of the Patriot Act,

484
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,760
and it was interesting to watch him sidestep around the questions,

485
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,760
like things about the library records, for example.

486
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,760
And he said, well, the word library never actually appears in it,

487
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,760
but if it hadn't been an issue, he said basically it doesn't appear in it,

488
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,760
so therefore it's a non-issue, but if they hadn't been asking for library records,

489
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,760
why would there have been such a big deal made about it?

490
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,760
So he was basically just weaving around the questions

491
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,760
to try and make it look as though it was a good thing.

492
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,760
But the impression I got, and I was glad to see that the media

493
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,760
was asking critical questions about it.

494
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,760
Look what it took, though, to get the media to actually ask

495
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,760
somewhat difficult questions about this, or challenging questions.

496
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,760
Basically, for years now, people have been upset by what the Patriot Act has done.

497
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,760
It gives federal agents a huge amount of power.

498
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,760
They can invade privacy without telling people, tapping telephone conversations,

499
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,760
searching without warrants, things like that.

500
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,760
And that's not even taking into account all the horrors going on

501
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,760
in places like Guantanamo Bay, where people are held without trial for years.

502
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,760
I was watching a story the other day on CNN, also CNN,

503
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,760
about British prisoners who had been held captive at Guantanamo Bay

504
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,760
for two years and released, and then questioned when they were released

505
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,760
back in England, and then released again.

506
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,760
They're free now.

507
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,760
And not even an apology for being held for two years without any kind of a charge.

508
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,760
And you have to wonder why the rest of the world is so annoyed with us right now.

509
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,760
Well, the British government has a policy of charging room and board

510
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,760
for people that it imprisons wrongfully, so they may not be the best example.

511
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:57,760
Well, no.

512
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,760
No, but the fact that these guys were apparently completely innocent

513
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,760
and were held for two years, you know, because of my government,

514
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,760
that's something that annoys me and something I think we need to do something about.

515
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,760
And I understand the accommodations aren't very nice.

516
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:12,760
They're not. They really aren't.

517
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,760
Lynn, you have a toy over there, if we can change gears for a second.

518
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:16,760
What are you playing with?

519
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,760
Yeah, do you want me to...

520
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:19,760
Yeah, I do.

521
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:20,760
Okay.

522
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:23,760
Tell us what you're doing first.

523
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:30,760
Well, basically, I've been talking a little with Bernie about soft phones and...

524
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:31,760
Soft phones, did you say?

525
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:32,760
Yeah, soft phones.

526
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:33,760
What's a soft phone?

527
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,760
It's a software-driven phone that works on your PC,

528
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:43,760
and it connects over the Internet to a...

529
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,760
Hang on a second, I'm dialing here.

530
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:46,760
Doing two things at once.

531
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:47,760
Yeah, I'm trying to do two things at a time.

532
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:48,760
Jeff has a question for you.

533
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,760
How different is this from the one that I had on a 486?

534
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,760
I think this is probably going to sound a little better, I hope.

535
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:57,760
All right.

536
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:03,760
You know, you mean years ago when people first started doing voice over the Internet type of chat?

537
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,760
This one actually is going to dial a telephone number.

538
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,760
No, this one works through the computer on the phone line.

539
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:12,760
Yeah, this isn't a new concept.

540
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,760
There actually used to be free sites that would do this, like dialpad.com.

541
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,760
You're talking about where you would actually dial the telephone number from...

542
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:21,760
Right on the computer.

543
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:22,760
Right on the computer.

544
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,760
It would go through the Internet.

545
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:25,760
Yeah, through the Internet.

546
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,760
You're talking about dialing the actual telephone line, right?

547
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:30,760
Yeah.

548
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,760
Yeah, this would be dialing the telephone line through a voice over IP.

549
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:36,760
Okay, yeah.

550
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,760
Through New Jersey somewhere and then back over into whatever area code.

551
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,760
So tell us what kind of service you're using right now.

552
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,760
It's actually from a company called Vonage.

553
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:46,760
Okay, I've heard about Vonage.

554
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:52,760
And they recently released a soft phone application.

555
00:27:52,760 --> 00:28:00,760
Basically, people had been doing this with software-based telephone programs without their permission.

556
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,760
And now they finally decided that they would get with the program

557
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:12,760
and they licensed a particular copy of software from a company called Xprox something or another.

558
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:18,760
Now, this happens to be what the FCC is attempting to get wiretap privileges on right now, right?

559
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:29,760
Yeah, I believe they have, but I also believe that Vonage has already got the equipment installed in their system.

560
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,760
But Vonage is interesting because it's a company that you can pretty much choose your own area code.

561
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:34,760
Right.

562
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:42,760
And you can have a phone number that has, say, a 213 area code from California right here in New York City that goes to a phone,

563
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,760
which is kind of interesting.

564
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,760
It opens up a lot of possibilities.

565
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,760
And I think they just introduced a service in Canada, too.

566
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,760
Yeah, they just added it for Canadian customers, although they've had Canadian virtual numbers.

567
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:54,760
Virtual numbers, right.

568
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:55,760
Of course, you might.

569
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,760
Can you pick that up and we'll see what it does?

570
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,760
If not, you may just want to leave me on hold because I know what happens with BIA's phone system.

571
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:03,760
Listen to you.

572
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:04,760
I can hear your voice.

573
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,760
Yeah, I can hear your voice, too, but it's a little echoey.

574
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:07,760
It is a little echoey.

575
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:08,760
You know what?

576
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,760
I'm going to turn down your microphone and let's talk to you over the phone and see.

577
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,760
Of course, we'll hear you a little bit in the background.

578
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,760
Well, let's see how much the delay is there.

579
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,760
Can you detect the delay?

580
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,760
Well, I turned down the microphone so people couldn't hear, but it was kind of distracting.

581
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,760
There was about maybe a quarter second delay.

582
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,760
Do you want to say something out loud and we can see over the air?

583
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:29,760
Yeah, let's see.

584
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:30,760
How's that?

585
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:31,760
It's pretty annoying.

586
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:32,760
Yeah, pretty annoying.

587
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:40,760
But let's try and carry on a conversation where we're just talking on the phone and you interrupt me and say something over me.

588
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,760
Okay, what do you want me to talk about?

589
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,760
It's like talking to a reporter in Baghdad.

590
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,760
Right, exactly.

591
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,760
Well, but the sound quality doesn't sound so bad.

592
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,760
The delay is kind of annoying, but the sound quality is really not that bad.

593
00:29:54,760 --> 00:30:07,760
And this is through the Internet over a wireless connection, and they add a pretty nominal fee to add this feature to your existing Vonage account.

594
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,760
Now, I don't think that you can just get the soft phone from them.

595
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,760
Okay, let's turn the damn phone off because it's annoying.

596
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,760
Okay, yeah, it's kind of driving me.

597
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:26,760
It's kind of like when you're on the show from – it's kind of the reverse of being on – calling into the show and still having the radio on.

598
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,760
I don't do that very much, but, yeah, I know what you mean.

599
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:30,760
I've heard about it.

600
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:31,760
People do it every week.

601
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:32,760
People do it, yeah, and I sympathize with them.

602
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:33,760
I really do.

603
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,760
And we'll be opening it up to people to do just that in a few minutes.

604
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,760
212-209-2900 is our phone number, so be prepared to dial when we give the signal.

605
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:53,760
I think the worst delay I ever experienced anyway was when we were in Amsterdam, and you were on the phone, and then you waved for me to come and get on the phone.

606
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:54,760
But we were listening over the Internet.

607
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:55,760
Right.

608
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:56,760
Oh, yeah, it was terrible.

609
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:57,760
There's a long delay on the Internet.

610
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:58,760
Thirty seconds.

611
00:30:58,760 --> 00:30:59,760
Yeah.

612
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:05,760
So I had no idea at what point the conversation was when I joined it, so it was quite –

613
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,760
Actually, we can demonstrate that right now if I can figure out where the computer comes up on this board.

614
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:10,760
Do you guys know where it comes up?

615
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:11,760
Yeah.

616
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:12,760
Was it here at one point?

617
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:13,760
Yeah, it was.

618
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:14,760
At one point.

619
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:15,760
I don't think it's labeled anymore.

620
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:16,760
I think it's underneath your papers.

621
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:17,760
Underneath my papers.

622
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,760
Well, why don't you come over and take a look and tell me if you see it here because it doesn't –

623
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,760
but we're going to try and demonstrate what it's like to listen to the radio station on the Internet and how long that delay actually is.

624
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,760
And that added also – with Amsterdam, that added the oversee lag of the phone system, too.

625
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:30,760
You think that's it?

626
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:31,760
Yeah, I think that is it.

627
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:32,760
The satellite's right in the middle of the board there.

628
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:33,760
Right in the middle of the board.

629
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:34,760
Okay.

630
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:43,760
Let's connect to the 2600 website, which allows you to listen to WBAI Live, thanks to the good efforts of Joonce and many other people that –

631
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:44,760
Anywhere in the world.

632
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:45,760
Keep us going.

633
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:46,760
Anywhere in the world.

634
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,760
And other worlds, too, if they can figure out how to connect.

635
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,760
Okay, we're going to click on that link there.

636
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,760
If that one's full, then we have to go to one of ours.

637
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:56,760
All right.

638
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:03,760
While Mike is figuring out how to bring it up on the board, let's read a couple more listener emails.

639
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:04,760
This person writes in from Sweden.

640
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,760
I just did my taxes via SMS.

641
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,760
I could also have done it via the web phone or snail mail.

642
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,760
I just found this cool and thought maybe you would, too.

643
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:13,760
SMS?

644
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,760
How can you do your taxes via SMS?

645
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,760
I mean, those are short messages, very short messages.

646
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:19,760
Tax forms are very long.

647
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:30,760
Well, if it's the equivalent of your EZ, then all you're entering is your – maybe it polls you with a bunch of different questions.

648
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:31,760
They have just the E.

649
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:32,760
They just have the E.

650
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:33,760
It's not EZ.

651
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:34,760
Just E.

652
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,760
It's really, really short.

653
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,760
Or is it the SM – never mind.

654
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:40,760
What did you make last year?

655
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:41,760
How much is left?

656
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,760
Send that.

657
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:45,760
That's pretty much it.

658
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:46,760
Mike, are we having problems here?

659
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,760
We're having a bit of difficulty.

660
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,760
We can't even listen to our own show.

661
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,760
You might want to go to the specific off-the-hook section, though.

662
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:54,760
That might be easier to deal with.

663
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,760
You know, I wonder if you get a rebate, does it go to your phone bill?

664
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:00,760
That's a good question.

665
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:01,760
That could be a good idea.

666
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,760
I think it winds up in your PayPal account.

667
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,760
This person writes in to tell us about driver's licenses using social security numbers.

668
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:13,760
Louisiana apparently is optional, and if you say you don't want your social security number, you get all zeroes.

669
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,760
So I imagine a lot of people have the same SSN on driver's licenses.

670
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,760
I would think that would look like a fake driver's license.

671
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:19,760
Well, wait.

672
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,760
Your SSN doesn't – does it show on your driver's license in most states?

673
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,760
Because I know with New York, it's just an ID number they assign you.

674
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,760
There are some states that have it by default.

675
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,760
If you're a listener with a Louisiana driver's license that's all zeroes,

676
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,760
and you've had something strange happen to you when you've gotten carded, please call us and let us know.

677
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,760
Yeah, I guess some bouncers might take a dim view of all the zeroes.

678
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,760
I would be suspicious.

679
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,760
But I guess, you know, if you don't want to have the crap kicked out of you in an alley somewhere,

680
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,760
you might want to put your SSN on a license.

681
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,760
You see how the state reasoning works?

682
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:51,760
No.

683
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,760
Why would the social security number help keep you from –

684
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,760
Because the bouncer won't be suspicious, and he'll welcome you into the establishment.

685
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,760
As opposed to he's suspicious and he kicks the crap out of you?

686
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,760
Yeah, because you're giving him lip.

687
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,760
Because you think that you deserve to be in there since it's not a fake license.

688
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,760
But it gives reason for people to kick the crap out of you to perform identity theft.

689
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,760
Exactly.

690
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:11,760
To take your wallet.

691
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:12,760
Yeah, it's a complicated issue.

692
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,760
And the bouncer may have all zeroes on his.

693
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,760
He may be concerned about his security as well.

694
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,760
The one that concerns me the most is, you know, your health insurance card.

695
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,760
That industry is just kicking and screaming away from the social security number.

696
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:25,760
Well, here's the thing.

697
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,760
My health insurance had a typo on my social security number.

698
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,760
So they hit one digit twice.

699
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,760
And that's been my account number ever since.

700
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,760
And I feel no great need to update them and give them the right information.

701
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,760
I don't think it's tied to social security at all.

702
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,760
So it's worked out fine.

703
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,760
So I think any digits you give them, as long as they're unique, will work.

704
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,760
I can't wait until you hit Medicare.

705
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,760
Well, it's going to be an interesting period, I'll say.

706
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,760
Here's some more.

707
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,760
What are we looking at next year?

708
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,760
Yes, here's some more.

709
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,760
What are you saying?

710
00:34:58,760 --> 00:34:59,760
I'm teasing.

711
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,760
I've got a birthday coming up next month, and I'm older than you, so don't worry.

712
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:03,760
All right.

713
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,760
Yeah, Medicare.

714
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,760
I was wondering if you guys need some hardware or a faster connection for the 2600.com server.

715
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,760
Every time right after a new episode of Off the Hook is posted, I try to download it,

716
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,760
and I'm unable to for five or six hours after it's posted.

717
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,760
The download usually freezes, and I guess this is because of a large demand for the files.

718
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,760
I have to wait until 2 a.m. Thursday if I want to listen to the latest episode.

719
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,760
Well, yes, there are some problems, some issues that we're working on,

720
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,760
and I think we'll be able to figure out a way to solve that problem.

721
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,760
I know there is a rush to get the shows after they get put up,

722
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,760
and that does cause a bit of a backlog.

723
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,760
But we're trying to open that up a little bit more,

724
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,760
and we're hoping within a couple of weeks to show marked improvement in that department.

725
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,760
Tell him we're willing to take whatever he wants to offer.

726
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:47,760
Oh, you can give us anything.

727
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,760
Yeah, we're not going to stop you from sending us hardware.

728
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:50,760
Absolutely.

729
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,760
And, you know, all kinds of things like that.

730
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,760
But if you really want to help, we could use the help with the conference,

731
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,760
because that's where people really come together and make something happen.

732
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,760
We can't even listen to our own show.

733
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,760
You might want to edit the specific Off the Hook section, though.

734
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:06,760
That might be easier to deal with.

735
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:07,760
Let's do this.

736
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,760
That's a several-second lag.

737
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:10,760
It is, it is.

738
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:11,760
A minute or so.

739
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:12,760
I'm going to start the timer.

740
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:13,760
I have a stopwatch. Hang on.

741
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,760
I have a timer here on the board. I might as well use it for the first time.

742
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:17,760
All right, all right.

743
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,760
Well, stopwatch, we can, like, mock 60 minutes.

744
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,760
All right, I figured out how to do it.

745
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:23,760
Does it tick?

746
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:24,760
Does mine make noise? No.

747
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:25,760
Okay.

748
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:26,760
It's useless, useless.

749
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:27,760
Sorry.

750
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:28,760
All right, I'm starting the timer now.

751
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:34,760
And what I'm going to do is I'm going to release the button when I say the word now.

752
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,760
Okay, because when the word now comes over, that's how long it takes.

753
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,760
This is going to be several minutes.

754
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:40,760
It might be several minutes.

755
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,760
It doesn't sound that bad.

756
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:44,760
It doesn't sound that bad.

757
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,760
Talk about Louisiana driver's licenses again.

758
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,760
And then we have to go through health care and health care.

759
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:49,760
Wait a moment.

760
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:50,760
Well, we'll turn it down for a little bit.

761
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,760
I was just thinking that people who are going to be listening to this show on the archives,

762
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,760
or even some who are listening on the radio, are going to be horribly confused

763
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,760
because now there's two shows coming over the airwaves.

764
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:01,760
Right.

765
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,760
We meet ourselves when this catches up, and we're talking about the same thing.

766
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,760
But we were mentioning the conference, the fifthhope.org is the official website,

767
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,760
or just hope.net will work, too.

768
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,760
And that will give you all the information on the conference coming up July 9th through 11th.

769
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,760
So if you want to help out, you really want to help out the hacker community,

770
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,760
that's what you should pool your resources into.

771
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,760
And there's all kinds of information on that website as to how you can help out,

772
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,760
and there will be more in the weeks and months ahead.

773
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,760
All right.

774
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,760
Shall we read some more listener mail, and we'll take phone calls in just a moment.

775
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:37,760
This person is running an electronic experimental radio show out of College Station, Texas.

776
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,760
It's such a funny name for a town, isn't it?

777
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,760
College Station.

778
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:42,760
That's Texas A&M.

779
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,760
It might be a college radio station, too.

780
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,760
Anyway, I was wondering if it would be possible to broadcast recordings of Off the Hook on our station,

781
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,760
non-profit educational license.

782
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,760
Well, the quick answer to that is yes, of course.

783
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,760
Anyone is welcome to do just that.

784
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,760
In fact, we're simulcast on a shortwave station, WBCQ.

785
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:00,760
7415.

786
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,760
7415, yes.

787
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,760
And you can listen to them most places in North America.

788
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,760
I've yet to have that fail on me.

789
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,760
I've had bad reception, but I've used it.

790
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,760
It failed on me once, but I was in the Adirondacks between mountains.

791
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,760
Well, I guess that's a good place to be if it's going to fail.

792
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:25,760
I mean, I remember hearing certain pieces of words, and I recognized that it was this show, but that was it.

793
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,760
I know that the Queen Mary 2 is on its way here now from overseas,

794
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:36,760
so if anybody is listening to a shortwave radio on the Queen Mary 2 as they chug into Manhattan,

795
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,760
getting here, I think, 6 in the morning,

796
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,760
please let us know how the reception is on WBCQ.

797
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,760
If they don't know of us already, I don't think they're going to listen to us somehow.

798
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,760
Well, Jim, you know, there's several thousand people on that boat.

799
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,760
I'm sure somebody there has heard of us.

800
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,760
Do you think they're listening live?

801
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,760
I'm sure if they are, they're jumping up and down right now with glee,

802
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,760
realizing that we're talking about them on that boat.

803
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,760
Oh, you can give us anything.

804
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,760
All right. Send us an e-mail. Let us know how the trip was.

805
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,760
It's coming up, by the way.

806
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:04,760
All right. Let's listen.

807
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:10,760
We could use the help with the conference, because that's where people really come together and make something happen.

808
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,760
The conference is our own show.

809
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,760
You might want to get into the specific off-the-hook section, though.

810
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:17,760
That might be easier to do.

811
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:18,760
Let's do this.

812
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,760
That's a several-second black.

813
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:21,760
It is.

814
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:22,760
I'm going to start the timer.

815
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,760
I have a stopwatch. Hang on.

816
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,760
I have a timer here on the board. I might as well use it for the first time.

817
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:27,760
All right.

818
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,760
If I can find the stopwatch, we can, like, mock 60 minutes.

819
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,760
All right. I figured out how to do it.

820
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:34,760
Does it tick?

821
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:35,760
This might make noise now.

822
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:36,760
Okay.

823
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:37,760
It's useless. Useless. Sorry.

824
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,760
All right. I'm starting the timer now.

825
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,760
And what I'm going to do is I'm going to release the button when I say the word now.

826
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:45,760
Is this the most it's?

827
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,760
Okay. And that was three minutes and 11 seconds after we started.

828
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,760
So now we know.

829
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,760
Now we know how long it takes people on the Internet to hear us.

830
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,760
So three minutes and 11-second delay.

831
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,760
Wow, that is something.

832
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,760
Now, shouldn't we start talking about the same things again?

833
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:00,760
Yeah.

834
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:01,760
Well, we'll turn it down for a little bit.

835
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,760
I was just thinking that people who are going to be listening to this show on the iPod

836
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,760
or even some who are listening on the radio are going to be horribly confused.

837
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:09,760
This is too much.

838
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:10,760
Yeah, this is too much. It really is.

839
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,760
It's too much for people to bear.

840
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,760
212-209-2900 is our phone number.

841
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,760
Feel free to give us a call if you have anything to say.

842
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,760
This has been a tough week.

843
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,760
Not that. Not that.

844
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,760
And good evening. You're on the air.

845
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,760
Go ahead.

846
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,760
Yes, it's you. You're on the radio.

847
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,760
Hi, it's Jacob calling from Canada.

848
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,760
Canada. What part of Canada?

849
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:32,760
We're in British Columbia.

850
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:33,760
Oh, British Columbia, the western part.

851
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:34,760
Yes, we are.

852
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,760
Great. What's on your mind tonight?

853
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,760
Well, it's quite unfortunate that Bernie's not on the show tonight because, well,

854
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,760
I've been reading the public policy recently.

855
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:44,760
Mm-hmm.

856
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,760
And I've just found it absolutely fascinating.

857
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:52,760
My curiosity, though, is I remember a discussion on Off the Hook a while ago

858
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,760
where you were going to compare a first-edition copy

859
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,760
with a later-edition copy of The Fifth Hope.

860
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:00,760
Okay.

861
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,760
And I won't be able to attend, so I'm curious if there's some way

862
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,760
that I will be able to see those results posted somewhere, perhaps.

863
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,760
This is – give us more details on what this is exactly?

864
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,760
This is the Puzzle Palace. This is the book on the NSA.

865
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:14,760
Right.

866
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,760
And the first-edition copy has information that the U.S. government took out.

867
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:20,760
Oh, really?

868
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:21,760
Right.

869
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,760
Yeah, that's a very hard book to get a first-edition copy.

870
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,760
I've got three hardbound editions, and I don't think one of them are the –

871
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,760
it says first edition.

872
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:31,760
I think I might have one.

873
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:32,760
Yeah. Yeah, I think I gave it to you.

874
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:33,760
Yeah.

875
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:34,760
I gave it to you for your birthday.

876
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:35,760
And you regret that, don't you?

877
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:36,760
Not at all. I've got three more.

878
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,760
Well, wait. If that's the first edition, then what are we looking for?

879
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,760
No, we're looking at the revised first edition.

880
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,760
I've got a copy here with me that says nothing at all about editions on it to begin with,

881
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:48,760
so I'm assuming it isn't.

882
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,760
What is the date in the copy?

883
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:53,760
I believe it's 1982.

884
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,760
No, I think the ones I have are 81.

885
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,760
81. Yeah, this is 1982. Hmm.

886
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,760
All right. Well, in that case, I'm still curious about what the results of the comparison are

887
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,760
between the originals and the later ones.

888
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,760
Yeah, that's – it's something that I'm sure we can try to work on.

889
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,760
But, no, that's Bamford's book I think you're talking about there.

890
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,760
Yeah, it's James Bamford. That's right.

891
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:18,760
We could call James Bamford and ask him.

892
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:23,760
I'm sure he has a copy floating around if he's not floating around somewhere himself writing that book.

893
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,760
All right. Well, we'll look into that. That's fascinating.

894
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:26,760
All right. Thank you very much.

895
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:27,760
Thanks for calling.

896
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:32,760
Related, Morkai Vanunu, who spilled the secret that Israel has nuclear bombs,

897
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,760
was released from prison the other day.

898
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:40,760
I was up at 4 in the morning or 5 in the morning actually, and I just turned on CNN.

899
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,760
And there was this – I don't know if anybody saw this.

900
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,760
It was this crazy mayhem-filled news conference that he was giving as he got out of prison.

901
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,760
And this was kind of like the old CNN where they just basically let the story unfold

902
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,760
and they didn't have some idiot like trying to explain it to us.

903
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,760
It was the international edition of CNN too, so they just cut to that feed.

904
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:03,760
He was basically being very defiant, saying that he was treated horribly,

905
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:08,760
held captive for admitting that Israel had nuclear weapons,

906
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,760
and he said he's proud of what he did, he would do it again.

907
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,760
And he basically was just walking around flashing the victory sign

908
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,760
and the cops were trying to keep him from doing that.

909
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,760
But yeah, it was kind of inspirational to see somebody come out so strongly.

910
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,760
And of course Israel is doing everything they can to keep him quiet

911
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,760
and to keep him from talking to foreigners.

912
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,760
And they say he has this restriction for a year where he can't go out of the country

913
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:33,760
and he can't speak to foreigners.

914
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,760
Now what happens after a year? All the secrets evaporate?

915
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:38,760
They're afraid he's going to tell another secret.

916
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,760
He's already been in prison for 18 years.

917
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,760
Any secrets he has has got to be out of here.

918
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,760
And 12 of those years were in solitary confinement.

919
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,760
Can you imagine that? Twelve years in solitary confinement.

920
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,760
I mean Kevin Mitnick was in prison, and we're talking about eight months in solitary confinement.

921
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,760
Twelve years. That's insane. That's insane.

922
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,760
And why isn't there some kind of commission looking into that?

923
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,760
Anyway, 212-209-2900.

924
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,760
And good evening, you're on the air.

925
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,760
Hello?

926
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:06,760
Go ahead, you're on.

927
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,760
Oh, hello. I have a few comments and questions.

928
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:15,760
First off, I was wondering about the 2600 online shops.

929
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:20,760
I was wondering, you accept credit cards and all these other things,

930
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,760
but why aren't you accepting PayPal?

931
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,760
I have a bad history with PayPal.

932
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,760
They tend to rip people off in many ways.

933
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,760
They withhold money that is not theirs to withhold.

934
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,760
We've heard so many complaints about them.

935
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,760
I would like to use a PayPal-type service, but PayPal itself I just have serious problems with.

936
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:45,760
I remember one time when I had a PayPal account, I was making a purchase with it,

937
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:47,760
and basically for no reason they said,

938
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,760
well, there's some sort of security alarm that's gone off,

939
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,760
and you have to now give us all your bank account information and a copy of your driver's license

940
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,760
before we'll ever let you use our service again.

941
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,760
So I said, you know, to hell with you.

942
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,760
I don't think that was PayPal.

943
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,760
It was PayPal.

944
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:08,760
And the thing is, they wouldn't even tell me what exactly had happened to cause them to do this.

945
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:13,760
I called, I spent an hour or so on the phone, and they were like,

946
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,760
well, once you give us the information, we'll tell you why.

947
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,760
I said, forget this. This isn't worth it.

948
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:20,760
See, this is funny and interesting.

949
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,760
This week I just signed up for my first PayPal account.

950
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:29,760
I want to try and use this stuff and make purchases and collect money on the Internet.

951
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,760
So I'm disappointed to hear this.

952
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,760
There are horror stories associated with them.

953
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,760
But for the amount of people that use it and the number of horror stories,

954
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,760
you have to look at the ratio and say, oh, okay.

955
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,760
It can't be all bad.

956
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,760
I didn't want to give them my bank account number.

957
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:46,760
All right.

958
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,760
Also remember they do take a commission off of anything that you get inbound.

959
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:51,760
Yeah.

960
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,760
It depends on whether or not you have a commercial account or a personal account.

961
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,760
If you tie it to a credit card, then yes, then every transaction gets hit.

962
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,760
I think even the commercial accounts, they take something.

963
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:02,760
Well, no.

964
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,760
The commercial accounts are the ones that they do.

965
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,760
The personal account, if it goes PayPal to PayPal, that doesn't get touched.

966
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,760
Ah, okay.

967
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:10,760
Okay.

968
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:11,760
Thanks for that call, by the way.

969
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,760
We have a late-breaking bulletin here.

970
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,760
You might recall a few weeks ago we talked about a telephone number

971
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:24,760
that was being marketed on the net, a very valuable phone number.

972
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:25,760
Does anybody remember what that number was?

973
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,760
8675309.

974
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:28,760
That's right, from the song.

975
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:33,760
And somebody was actually selling that number here in New York City for $80,000.

976
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:34,760
Or trying to.

977
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,760
Trying to, yes.

978
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,760
Apparently somebody bought it.

979
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,760
But listen to this.

980
00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:00,760
Please dial 1, then the area code and the 7-digit number to complete your call.

981
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,760
Why would I need to do that when I'm in 212?

982
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,760
Is there a 10-digit dialing in 212?

983
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:05,760
Oh, you know what?

984
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,760
I don't dial landlines in 212 anymore.

985
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,760
Isn't that something?

986
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:10,760
Okay, hang on.

987
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,760
We have so many people calling in, I can't get a line out.

988
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:14,760
Okay.

989
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:15,760
There we go.

990
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,760
Hopefully we can still get through.

991
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:23,760
Hello.

992
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,760
Jenny isn't here right now.

993
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:31,760
She's busy listening to Default Radio at www.defaultradio.com,

994
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,760
Friday nights at 10 Eastern.

995
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:38,760
Also, be sure to check out the weekly War Dial at hbx.us.

996
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:43,760
And don't forget to pick up a copy of 2600 Magazine, The Hacker Quarterly.

997
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,760
Available at most bookstores and at 2600.com.

998
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:52,760
This message has been brought to you by a grant from the Tommy Hutone Foundation

999
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,760
and the financial support of listeners like you.

1000
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,760
And make sure you don't leave your voicemail password on default,

1001
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,760
like Jenny did or you might get hacked by Verizon.

1002
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,760
We never stop tweaking for you.

1003
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:09,760
Also, on the web at www.verizonfierce.com.

1004
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,760
At the tone, please record your message.

1005
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,760
Wait, we should leave a message for her.

1006
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,760
I think we should walk away as quickly as we can.

1007
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:19,760
Okay, just for the record, we had nothing to do with that.

1008
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,760
Apparently, one of our listeners figured out how to do this.

1009
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,760
And this $80,000 purchase, which I assume was made,

1010
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,760
I heard somebody bought it for $80,000.

1011
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,760
Apparently, they just routed it to a voicemail system

1012
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:32,760
and left it on a default password.

1013
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,760
Well, you heard what happened.

1014
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,760
Yeah, that's 8-6-7-5-3-0-9. The saga continues.

1015
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,760
I really think we should have left them a voicemail, though.

1016
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,760
I'm sure they're getting tons of them right now.

1017
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:50,760
I'm sure they're listening, too, so consider this a big voicemail that we're leaving right now.

1018
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,760
Well done, well done, but we had nothing to do with it.

1019
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,760
Yeah, come up to us at the conference at the Fifth Hope and say hello.

1020
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,760
We'd love to know.

1021
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,760
Put a bag over your head so nobody would know who you are.

1022
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,760
Wear a balaclava. As long as it's not red, there's no problem.

1023
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:04,760
That worked very well for you, didn't it?

1024
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,760
Yeah, it's why I'm unemployed. But anyway, let's go on.

1025
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,760
Good evening. You're on the air.

1026
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:10,760
Yes, hello.

1027
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:11,760
How are you doing?

1028
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:12,760
Okay.

1029
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,760
It's so good to hear your voice again. How have you been?

1030
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:15,760
Yeah, good.

1031
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:16,760
Really? Have you really been good?

1032
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:17,760
Yeah.

1033
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:18,760
Or are you just saying you've been good?

1034
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,760
Because a lot of people say they've been good when they're not really good.

1035
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:21,760
I'll think of what I want to say.

1036
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:23,760
Well, you know, what you should say is the truth.

1037
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:25,760
It is the truth. Everything I say is the truth.

1038
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,760
All right. That's all I needed to hear.

1039
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,760
Thank you for calling. Good evening. You're on the air.

1040
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:30,760
Hello?

1041
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:31,760
Yes, go ahead.

1042
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:33,760
Oh, hi. I have a question.

1043
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:35,760
You know, I haven't heard a hum like that since the 1980s.

1044
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,760
I know. It just happened today. I don't know what it is.

1045
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:39,760
Bad bugging or what.

1046
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:40,760
You're using Verizon, though, aren't you?

1047
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,760
Yes, I am. This is a landline.

1048
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:43,760
Where are you calling from?

1049
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,760
What do you call it? Long Island 631.

1050
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:47,760
Yeah, that's the Long Island hum we call that.

1051
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:48,760
Okay, go ahead. What's on your mind?

1052
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:50,760
I mean, I never had it before.

1053
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,760
Two questions. One is a quick one, the original one.

1054
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,760
Why is there a delay of a quarter of a second or whatever?

1055
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:58,760
It means there are a lot of capacitors in the line.

1056
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,760
And my second question vis-a-vis my trying to call you guys,

1057
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,760
every five minutes my phone would hang up and give a busy signal

1058
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,760
trying to reach you guys.

1059
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,760
Well, that's not a busy signal. That's a fast busy.

1060
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:10,760
It's called a reorder.

1061
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:12,760
And what that basically is, that's Verizon being greedy

1062
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:14,760
and saying that, well, you haven't connected in two minutes,

1063
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,760
so therefore we're going to make you start all over again.

1064
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,760
Used to be in the old days, long distance as well as local,

1065
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,760
you could call something and as long as it kept ringing,

1066
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:24,760
it would ring for days until somebody picked up.

1067
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:25,760
You didn't get charged or anything.

1068
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:26,760
Oh, right. I remember that, yes.

1069
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:28,760
Now they've programmed it into their switches.

1070
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:30,760
Even though there's a lot more capacity now,

1071
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:32,760
they want you to pay for that connection.

1072
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,760
And of course, you know, it's also cheaper to make phone calls these days too,

1073
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,760
so you don't really have to pay many times.

1074
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,760
But it is very inconvenient to have to constantly be redialing.

1075
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:40,760
No, it seems to be fluky.

1076
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:42,760
I mean, when I try to get to the station at times,

1077
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,760
I'll go for like longer than five minutes or whatever,

1078
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,760
and, you know, it'll still ring.

1079
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,760
But tonight it seems to be very doctrinaire.

1080
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:52,760
Well, do you always route the calls the same way?

1081
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,760
Is it always just one plus the number and you go through Verizon?

1082
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:59,760
You know, I just dial 1212-209-2900.

1083
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:01,760
Uh-huh. That should go through Verizon if you're on Long Island,

1084
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,760
unless you pick another company.

1085
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,760
No, I didn't. It's a Verizon thing, you know.

1086
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,760
So I don't understand, but...

1087
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:08,760
And what was your first question again?

1088
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:10,760
Okay, yeah. Wire delay.

1089
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:11,760
Delay where?

1090
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,760
Well, at first, when he was using that store phone,

1091
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,760
there was a quarter of a second delay.

1092
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:17,760
Oh.

1093
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,760
Is there a whole lot of capacitors in the line or what's going on?

1094
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:26,760
Well, I think the issue is we're going from Manhattan

1095
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,760
down to somewhere in New Jersey or something

1096
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:31,760
through the Internet through a bunch of routers

1097
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:33,760
and then back to the telephone company

1098
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,760
and making a call from, you know, wherever

1099
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,760
and then migrating its way all the way back to the telephone system to here.

1100
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,760
So you've got a lot of speed of light time, you know, to add up.

1101
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,760
Yeah, and also, when you're talking to a cell phone, too,

1102
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:46,760
I don't know if you've noticed this,

1103
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:47,760
when you're talking to somebody right next to you,

1104
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,760
which is a stupid thing to do, but a lot of people do it anyway,

1105
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:51,760
you'll notice that there's a slight delay on that, too.

1106
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,760
What's the reason for that?

1107
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:55,760
It's the same type of thing, I think.

1108
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,760
You know, you've got distance that you're covering

1109
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,760
and there's slight delays and all that stuff.

1110
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:00,760
I always thought it was processing.

1111
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:01,760
That could be true, too.

1112
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:02,760
That's kind of a processor delay.

1113
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:03,760
The other thing...

1114
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,760
The speed of light is 186,000 miles per hour or whatever it is.

1115
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:07,760
Per second.

1116
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:08,760
Per second.

1117
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:09,760
Yeah, it's pretty fast.

1118
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:11,760
I don't think we're going to worry about that anytime soon.

1119
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,760
So, let's see.

1120
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:20,760
There's 40,000 miles of wire between the cell phone and the endpoint.

1121
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,760
Well, and then also all the router delays

1122
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,760
and all of that stuff that's associated with the Internet

1123
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,760
is probably going to be the bigger one.

1124
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,760
You know, that's going to be the bigger delay.

1125
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,760
It's going to be all the times that it stores and forwards,

1126
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,760
stores and forwards, stores and forwards through routers and the Internet.

1127
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:36,760
Yeah, I think that's where the big delay is.

1128
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:37,760
Of course, if you go up on a satellite,

1129
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,760
then you're going to have, you know, a slight delay

1130
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,760
as that's 22,500 miles up there and then back down.

1131
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:44,760
Let somebody else have a chance,

1132
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,760
and I hope you can get through to Albania anytime, Eric.

1133
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,760
Okay, and I hope your home goes away.

1134
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:49,760
Thanks for calling.

1135
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,760
Of course, you can get through to Albania now.

1136
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,760
He's referring to my trying to call Albania for most of the 80s and 90s,

1137
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,760
and it was closed off to us.

1138
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,760
The other night, because my sweetheart and I upgraded our phones

1139
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:02,760
and got the family plan and so on,

1140
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:04,760
we were testing phones, doing things.

1141
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,760
Not only do you get the delay sitting next to each other,

1142
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:09,760
but you also get an interesting feedback going on as well.

1143
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:10,760
Oh, yeah.

1144
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:11,760
Oh, this is great to do.

1145
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,760
If you have two phones, call them and hold them mouthpiece to earpiece.

1146
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:16,760
And say something.

1147
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:17,760
You'll say something.

1148
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,760
Just yell into the phone or something,

1149
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:20,760
and it'll get louder and louder and louder,

1150
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:21,760
and it's really kind of cool.

1151
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,760
And bounce back in the echo, and yeah, it's wonderful.

1152
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:24,760
It's great for parties.

1153
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:25,760
All right.

1154
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:26,760
Let's take another phone call.

1155
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:27,760
Good evening.

1156
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:28,760
You're on the air.

1157
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:29,760
Yeah, I don't know anything on my own,

1158
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:31,760
but I have heard that the delay on the Internet increases

1159
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:33,760
depending on how many people are listening.

1160
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,760
That's an interesting theory.

1161
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:36,760
I don't know.

1162
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,760
I'm sure I've heard that from several sources,

1163
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:41,760
and I can hear my radio in the background,

1164
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,760
so it's driving me crazy.

1165
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:44,760
I've got to go.

1166
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:45,760
Bye.

1167
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:46,760
Where are you calling from?

1168
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:47,760
I think he already left.

1169
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:48,760
I don't know.

1170
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,760
I guess the only way to do that is to drive all the listeners away

1171
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:51,760
and have one left.

1172
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:52,760
We know who that one will be.

1173
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:54,760
No, he'll be listening over the radio, won't he?

1174
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:55,760
Oh, well.

1175
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:56,760
Let's take another phone call.

1176
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:57,760
And good evening.

1177
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:58,760
You're on the air.

1178
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,760
Yes, that delay that you were speaking about

1179
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:09,760
is usually due to that it's only taking samples of your voice.

1180
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:14,760
And so I think it's every ten seconds or tenth of a second

1181
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,760
they take a sample and then they send it out.

1182
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,760
So by the time the sample is sent out,

1183
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,760
it gives that temporary delay.

1184
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:29,760
Even if you're both coming from the same feeder

1185
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,760
it's giving you the connection.

1186
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,760
So if you study the fiber optics, that's exactly how fiber optics work,

1187
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:39,760
and it's the same way wireless works.

1188
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:44,760
It takes samples of the information or the data or the voice

1189
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,760
and then it sends it out in a delayed manner

1190
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:49,760
so it doesn't come out immediately.

1191
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,760
So every time you're talking you're just getting what was said

1192
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:55,760
a tenth of a second earlier.

1193
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:56,760
Interesting.

1194
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:58,760
And that's only because I work for those people

1195
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:00,760
and they taught that in one of their classes.

1196
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:01,760
Ah.

1197
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:02,760
Okay, well thanks for the info.

1198
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:03,760
No problem.

1199
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:04,760
All right.

1200
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,760
Yeah, that makes sense because most of these things are compressed.

1201
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:09,760
You don't want to send raw audio out on the internet.

1202
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,760
So most of it's compressed, and in order to compress anything

1203
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:13,760
you're going to need to have some data to compress.

1204
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,760
So you take a sample and then compress it and send it out

1205
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:18,760
and then take another one and so on and so forth.

1206
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,760
Another thing that, as long as we're on the subject of delays

1207
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,760
and phones and things like that,

1208
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,760
this is a fun trick you can try.

1209
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:31,760
If you just basically make a sound, like a monotone sound over your cell phone,

1210
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,760
talking to somebody else, and try to hold it as long as you can,

1211
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,760
I know on Sprint at least it will blank out after a few seconds.

1212
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:39,760
You know about this?

1213
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:44,760
No, but with the Roam phone system that I know you used to screw around with in college,

1214
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,760
if you try to record a voicemail message and there's not enough,

1215
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,760
if you don't say anything for a while it will cut that part out in the middle.

1216
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:53,760
Of course, yeah.

1217
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,760
I assume if you held a similar tone.

1218
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:58,760
But this isn't silence.

1219
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:04,760
This is a tone or just a voice that is very monotone.

1220
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,760
It will mute that or something.

1221
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,760
It sounds almost like noise cancelling to try to make it sound clearer.

1222
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:12,760
Yeah, I think that's what it's trying to do.

1223
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:14,760
But there's all kinds of fun you can have with these phones.

1224
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,760
Of course, with Sprint it could just be the traditional cutting out after a few seconds.

1225
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:19,760
That's right.

1226
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,760
Shall we take one more phone call?

1227
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:23,760
Good evening, you're on the air.

1228
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:24,760
Hello?

1229
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:25,760
Yes, go ahead.

1230
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:26,760
It's Jones.

1231
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:27,760
Jones, how are you doing?

1232
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:28,760
Pretty good.

1233
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,760
Wow, how apropos we should hear from you.

1234
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,760
Yeah, well, you know, I can shed a little more light on the delay also.

1235
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,760
Okay, well shed it quickly as we're almost out of time.

1236
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:42,760
Well, a large part of it comes from buffering, both on the server side and on your computer side.

1237
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:48,760
It can't play, you know, it doesn't want to risk losing the audio halfway through or whatever.

1238
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,760
It usually caches a certain amount of data on your hard drive.

1239
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:56,760
And depending on the compression used, that could be anywhere from a few seconds to a minute of audio.

1240
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,760
So that also comes into play.

1241
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,760
We had three minutes, 11 seconds.

1242
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:06,760
Yeah, well, there's about a two minute, a little less than two minute delay introduced by the server itself.

1243
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,760
On top of whatever delay your cache is adding from your player.

1244
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:12,760
Well, Jones, let me ask you one quick question.

1245
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:14,760
Is this ever going to get better?

1246
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:20,760
It may someday, but, you know, it's never going to get as immediate as the radio is.

1247
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,760
Okay, well, that's a sobering fact for those people listening on the Internet.

1248
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,760
Jones, thanks so much for everything you do to keep us on the Internet and the station as well.

1249
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:28,760
Absolutely.

1250
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,760
All right, and that's going to just about do it for us here tonight.

1251
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,760
I want to thank everybody for calling in and being part of the show.

1252
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,760
I want to thank you, Jeff, and Mike, Jim.

1253
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:39,760
I got to warn you, I can't make it next week.

1254
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:41,760
All right, well, thank you for letting us know.

1255
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:42,760
Thank you, Jim.

1256
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:43,760
Thank you, Lynn.

1257
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:44,760
Thank you, Red Hat.

1258
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:45,760
And thank you, George W.

1259
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:47,760
This has been tough weeks in that country.

1260
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:49,760
See you next week.

1261
00:57:49,760 --> 00:58:07,760
¶¶

1262
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,760
¶ Come on and take a walk with me ¶¶

1263
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:11,760
¶ Through this green and growing land ¶¶

1264
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,760
¶ Walk through the meadows and the mountains and the sand ¶¶

1265
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,760
¶ Walk through the valleys and the rivers and the plains ¶¶

1266
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,760
¶ Walk through the sun and walk through the rain ¶¶

1267
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:25,760
¶ Here is a land full of power and glory ¶¶

1268
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,760
¶ Beauty that words cannot recall ¶¶

1269
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,760
¶ All her power shall rest on the strength of her freedom ¶¶

1270
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,760
¶ Glory shall rest on us all ¶¶

1271
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,760
¶ From Colorado, Kansas and the Carolinas ¶¶

1272
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,760
¶ To Virginia and Alaska from the old to the new ¶¶

1273
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,760
¶ Texas and Ohio and the California shore ¶¶

1274
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,760
¶ Tell me who could ask for more ¶¶

1275
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,760
¶ Here is a land full of power and glory ¶¶

1276
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:55,760
¶ Beauty that words cannot recall ¶¶

1277
00:58:55,760 --> 00:59:00,760
¶ All her power shall rest on the strength of her freedom ¶¶

1278
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:06,760
¶¶