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You've got to maintain it, you've got to change the oil, you've got to put a little money

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in it.

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Same thing here, we need to maintain the radio station so it performs for us just like this

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past weekend.

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Yeah, that's right.

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You know, imagine if we, you know, weren't around for that, if we were, you know, playing

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canned music or something, it would have made a real difference, a big difference in the

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way things went.

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Radio can be a very useful tool, that's why, you know, it's always the first thing to be

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controlled when governments change or whenever something bad is happening.

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So please make that phone call, 202-209-2950.

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Let's go into some other stories that have been happening in the time.

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We haven't been on last week, in fact, we won't be on next week either.

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I should point out, though, that there's an additional radio program now that we just

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started yesterday on a different radio station, WUSB in Stony Brook, called Off the Wall.

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Yeah, it's sort of like an expansion of Off the Hook, but not tied necessarily to technology.

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You can listen to that, in fact, you can listen to last night's episode on the internet right

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now, well, not right now, but after we're off the air.

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And that's at www.2600.com, or you can tune in to WUSB, which is 90.1 FM in Stony Brook,

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New York on Long Island.

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Jens, we set that up pretty quickly as well, another web streaming deal there.

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Yeah, one of the people who helps us out, Brilden, he does one of the extra servers

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just for this show, he picked up and basically re-broadcast the stream from WUSB's stream.

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And we had a lot of people listening, we had a lot of people from around the world, we

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got a call from England, in fact, and it's really cool to be able to merge these technologies

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together, radio and internet, and just bringing all these people that never would have communicated

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otherwise.

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So it's really a cool thing.

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So that's an indication of how we're starting new things, trying out new venues, and things

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like that.

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So we won't be on Off the Hook next week, but Off the Wall we'll be on next Tuesday,

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so hopefully we'll be on every week in some context.

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It's not the same show, it's different, but it's still a voice for listeners.

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All right, so what other stories have been going on around the world?

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We have, well, Sarah, we have some interesting pieces on the website this week.

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Well, sure.

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What's probably the most outrageous one?

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Well, there's this American journalist named Brian McWilliams who managed to fool not only

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his fellow journalists, but to fool the NIPC.

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What's the NIPC?

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It's the National Infrastructure Protection Center.

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Oh, that sounds important.

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And they're the ones who released that new National Strategy to Secure Cyberspace, which

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was just released this past weekend.

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They're supposed to be sort of our first line of defense against all of these cyber attacks

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that, although we've never actually seen one happen, I don't think, are obviously a tremendous

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threat to all of us.

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And what this reporter did was he registered a domain name, HarkatulMujahideen.org.

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And HarkatulMujahideen is a well-known terrorist group.

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They've been around for many, many years and been involved in all sorts of real terrorist

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events all over the world.

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But they neglected to register their website.

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Right, of course.

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And so he registered this domain name last year in an attempt to attract terrorists,

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real terrorists, to email him as part of a long-term investigation he was doing.

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And ultimately he hoped that it would culminate in an article where he would have all sorts

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of inside information or insight into how these people operate.

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And he went relatively undetected until just recently.

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And the reason that he was detected was because he kind of took things one step further.

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He claimed that his group was responsible for the slammer worm, which for those who

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don't know was the worm that really slowed down the internet for a day or so recently,

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attacking a Microsoft SQL server.

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And so he said that his group was responsible for the worm and he presented some dubious

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evidence to back that up.

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And all sorts of people jumped on the story.

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And the NIPC got involved.

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And from examining his website and examining these emails that he was sending to these

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reporters, they determined that he was the real deal, that he really was a representative

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of Harkat al-Mujahideen.

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Now this is despite the fact that the group is located abroad, yet the emails from this

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reporter who was claiming to be somebody named Abu Mujahid were coming from America.

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Now you see an email coming from America, from somebody claiming to be in Pakistan,

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you've got to think twice about that, but they didn't.

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So what was the effect?

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What wound up happening?

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Well the effect was that an article was published in Computer World saying basically that this

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terrorist group was responsible for this internet worm.

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And of course it was realized somewhat quickly after that, people realized how ridiculous

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it was that it wasn't true and they pulled down the story, though we still have it on

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our website.

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Now that's interesting how stories just get eliminated when they realize that it's not

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quite true.

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It just never happened.

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Now I bet if you contact Computer World and ask them, you know, what about this story?

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What story?

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There's no story?

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There never was a story.

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We've got the story on our website, which I think is pretty funny.

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That was a cool story.

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There was another one, though, about an 11-year-old kid.

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Tell us what happened with this, 11-year-old hacker kid.

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We've gotten tremendous feedback for this one.

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This young boy, whose name still hasn't been released, but he's an 11-year-old student

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at a school called St. Lucie West Middle School, which is in Florida.

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And this kid, like so many other kids who I've known, including myself, tried to mess

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with school computers.

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He tried to change his grades.

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And you know, this is the kind of testing of boundaries that kids do.

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This is the way you learn right from wrong what the boundaries are of the authority figures

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around you and what they will or won't permit.

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And so, I mean, you know, it's sort of sad.

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You can really see him doing it.

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Apparently, he came up with some sort of fib that he had to go back and pick up his lunch

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or something like that and instead sat down at his teacher's computer and tried to change

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his grades.

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Was he successful in changing the grade?

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Yes.

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He was successful?

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He was, though, I mean, obviously not in the long term.

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What did he change it to?

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I followed this quite a bit, being an educator myself, and as it turns out, another teacher

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had seen him at the computer, and when he seemed guilty of something, they investigated

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and found what he had done.

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He had changed some reading grades.

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And they, I mean, as I said, even in my position, I think they, you're going to go on to the

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future.

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Well, yeah, what did they do to this kid?

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Well, they really went beyond what anybody might expect.

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They have charged them with a felony.

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The felony is an offense to intellectual property, which is some sort of state law

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in Florida.

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And they brought him to the county jail, where he was eventually transferred to the custody

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of his father.

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But they're really taking a hard line with this kid.

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The principal of the school, whose name is Helen Roberts, has recommended that the boy

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be expelled from the school.

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Unbelievable.

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An assistant state attorney in Florida named Helen Mancini called the boy's actions a scheme

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to defraud.

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She said, it's as much a fraud as anything else.

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You know, I only wish Bernie S. was here, because he could tell us all kinds of perspective

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as to people just don't understand technology.

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It's too bad I'm not here.

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Hey, how'd you do that, Bernie?

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Wow, you suddenly popped into our board.

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Just jumped off the train.

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Jumped off the train and into the BAI mixing board here.

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You heard that story then?

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Yeah.

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It's amazing.

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I was trying to wrap my head around the whole intellectual property issue.

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What was intellectual property here that was claimed to have been stolen or violated?

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Offended, actually.

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What's that?

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Offended.

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Offended?

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Offended.

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Offense to intellectual property is what they call it in this law.

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It's offense to my intellect, I'll tell you that right now.

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Was it a letter?

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No, no.

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I can help you.

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The letter C was changed to an A, and that was an offense to intellectual property.

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Jeff has an answer.

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What's the answer to this?

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The grade book of a teacher is considered a legal document.

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Anytime anything gets tested, the grade book becomes what you measure everything by.

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From the standpoint that they are treating this as an intellectual property, I can understand

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that does carry a lot of weight.

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It is an important document.

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I'll give it that.

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But to treat a child, 11-year-old individual, with those kind of penalties and fines and

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punishments, in my opinion, it goes way too far.

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This has generated a lot of interest among our readers.

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One person actually sent us a copy, actually a few people wrote the principal some letters

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and sent us copies, but this one I thought was particularly good.

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It starts, Hello, Ms. Helen Roberts, which is the name of the principal down there.

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I think it was probably easy for people to find out all this information because we linked

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directly to the elementary school website, don't we, sir?

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Yes, we did.

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Yeah, it's quite a website it is, too.

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That's probably an offense to intellectual property right there.

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I cannot believe that you suggested that the 11-year-old student that tried to change his

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grades be expelled from your school.

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Maybe you should think that this is not totally the student's fault.

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Maybe you should think that your lack of understanding of security in the computer section and in

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technology in general may be the problem in itself.

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Students learn by example, and if your administration understood this technology, maybe you would

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have put emphasis on securing what needs to be secure and not running your grade servers

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on the open land in your school where students may gain access to it.

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If you read your Security for Dummies book, you will see that the best way to keep something

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secure is to not provide ways for people to gain access to it.

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If this student gets expelled because of your incompetence, I feel that maybe the American

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public should look to privately funded institutions to train the minds of tomorrow and not to

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the obviously hurting public system.

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As I can see, your personal office computer, the Dell GX150, is very insecure in itself.

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You might at least want to secure the principal's system before you take a look at your entire network.

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Signed, the concerned technician.

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That hurts.

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I think it's brilliant.

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I mean, yeah.

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Show people exactly what it is that their weaknesses are.

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It's absurd that somebody has to suffer like this.

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And the sad part of this is that this middle school is rated as one of the quote-unquote

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most wired schools in the country.

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But they fail to set any sort of example as to how to treat the technology, how to treat

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people's use of it.

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They may have a lot of computers.

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They may have a big network.

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But what are they doing with it?

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I think we need to look at that before we tell somebody that their school sets an example

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for technology.

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Absolutely.

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So that's the kind of craziness that's going on in the world out there.

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And that's the kind of thing you have to look forward to.

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Please give us a call, 212-209-2950.

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Pledge your support to the radio station.

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Up to $2,000.

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00:11:48,260 --> 00:11:49,260
Well, that's good.

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That's good.

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Hopefully they're still counting down there because that seems like an awfully round number.

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00:11:53,260 --> 00:11:58,260
But let's keep those calls coming in because it really should be...

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I think our goal is around $5,000, isn't it, for the entire two-hour period?

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That's what they expect of us.

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That's what I expect of us.

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No one's calling.

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No one's calling.

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What's wrong with the phones?

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212-209-2950.

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Do you know that the police actually were caught cutting our phone wires at the demonstration?

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Did you hear about this?

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No.

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Yeah, there was a Democracy Now! broadcast going on,

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which I actually saw on Manhattan Neighborhood Network, which was really cool,

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being able to actually see the demonstration on TV.

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And I found out later that the police were seen cutting the phone lines leading to the broadcast.

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Now, this is the kind of thing that goes on in other countries in our minds.

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We don't think that kind of thing happens here.

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But you know what?

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It does happen here.

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It does happen when the media is not respected.

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And by media, I don't mean NBC, CBS, all those people that do the same thing over and over again.

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I mean people that actually broadcast information that may not be convenient to the powers that be.

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That's why it's important to give a call.

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212-209-2950.

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We have two different pledge categories.

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We have the $75 pledge category and the $125 pledge category.

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For $75, you get that.

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Bernie, have you heard about this?

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The brand new Off the Hook T-shirt.

241
00:13:11,260 --> 00:13:13,260
Oh, I heard a rumor to that effect.

242
00:13:13,260 --> 00:13:15,260
Yeah, the rumor was circulating.

243
00:13:15,260 --> 00:13:19,260
And we had to quash the rumor, and then we had to admit to it.

244
00:13:19,260 --> 00:13:21,260
That's the way it works.

245
00:13:21,260 --> 00:13:23,260
Did he have a vision of the shirt, too?

246
00:13:23,260 --> 00:13:26,260
Yeah, Jim had some kind of psychedelic vision of the shirt.

247
00:13:26,260 --> 00:13:27,260
No, no, it wasn't psychedelic.

248
00:13:27,260 --> 00:13:33,260
It was more like a vision quest, sort of like my American Indian roots, of which I have none.

249
00:13:33,260 --> 00:13:35,260
That should give you an idea of what the vision was like.

250
00:13:36,260 --> 00:13:38,260
Yeah, Off the Hook T-shirts.

251
00:13:38,260 --> 00:13:40,260
We don't quite know what they're going to look like yet.

252
00:13:40,260 --> 00:13:44,260
Jeff is one of the main people behind that, and he's got a glint in his eye.

253
00:13:44,260 --> 00:13:46,260
So I imagine it's going to be pretty damn cool.

254
00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:50,260
And in addition to that, yes, there's more.

255
00:13:50,260 --> 00:13:54,260
You get either Freedom Downtime, a film that you're in, Bernie.

256
00:13:54,260 --> 00:13:55,260
Uh-oh.

257
00:13:55,260 --> 00:13:57,260
Yeah, well, you've seen it.

258
00:13:57,260 --> 00:14:02,260
Or a one-year subscription to 2600 Magazine, the Hacker Quarterly,

259
00:14:02,260 --> 00:14:06,260
the magazine that deals with all these issues and has been doing so since 1984.

260
00:14:06,260 --> 00:14:11,260
If you've never seen a copy, well, you owe it to yourself to at least see what it's all about.

261
00:14:11,260 --> 00:14:20,260
So you have a choice of those two items for that pledge of $75 in addition to the T-shirt, the Off the Hook T-shirt.

262
00:14:20,260 --> 00:14:24,260
Just simply indicate to the person when you call in which one you want.

263
00:14:24,260 --> 00:14:32,260
Now, for a pledge of 125, $125, you'll get the brand-new, and Bernie, you'll be excited by this too,

264
00:14:32,260 --> 00:14:35,260
brand-new 2600 hooded sweatshirt.

265
00:14:35,260 --> 00:14:36,260
That is exciting.

266
00:14:36,260 --> 00:14:38,260
That is very exciting.

267
00:14:38,260 --> 00:14:39,260
At first.

268
00:14:39,260 --> 00:14:42,260
I imagine all kinds of people are taking note of the fact that these will be on the street,

269
00:14:42,260 --> 00:14:47,260
and people will be walking around with these brand-new concoctions.

270
00:14:47,260 --> 00:14:53,260
In addition to the hooded sweatshirt, which is no cheap thing to produce, let me tell you right now,

271
00:14:53,260 --> 00:14:56,260
that's why it's part of the more expensive package.

272
00:14:56,260 --> 00:15:02,260
In addition to that, you get both the subscription to 2600 and Freedom Downtime,

273
00:15:02,260 --> 00:15:07,260
the documentary about Kevin Mitnick, the Free Kevin Movement, the Hacker World, and all kinds of other things.

274
00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:16,260
And that in itself, I think, is definitely worth getting excited over if you know those things are hitting your way.

275
00:15:16,260 --> 00:15:18,260
212-209-2950.

276
00:15:18,260 --> 00:15:21,260
Apparently not enough people agree, though, because we have no calls on the line.

277
00:15:21,260 --> 00:15:24,260
Not to mention the sheer pleasure of giving those poor volunteers something to do.

278
00:15:24,260 --> 00:15:26,260
Yeah, we have at least ten volunteers down there.

279
00:15:26,260 --> 00:15:29,260
It was down there before, and it was a crowded room full of people.

280
00:15:29,260 --> 00:15:34,260
And, you know, we don't want them to break out the card deck again and start playing all those games.

281
00:15:34,260 --> 00:15:36,260
We want them to be busy.

282
00:15:36,260 --> 00:15:39,260
I mean, they get angry at us later when they're out of breath and everything like that,

283
00:15:39,260 --> 00:15:41,260
and they have to answer all these phones.

284
00:15:41,260 --> 00:15:45,260
But, you know, after a few weeks go by, the tension sort of subsides a bit,

285
00:15:45,260 --> 00:15:49,260
and everybody's happy that we were able to make the fun drive a success.

286
00:15:49,260 --> 00:15:55,260
And the goal for the fun drive, this particular one, is I think $1.2 million.

287
00:15:55,260 --> 00:15:57,260
It's a staggering amount of money.

288
00:15:57,260 --> 00:15:59,260
It sounds that way.

289
00:15:59,260 --> 00:16:03,260
But we're going to make it because of people like you who listen to the radio station

290
00:16:03,260 --> 00:16:05,260
and pledge what you can afford.

291
00:16:05,260 --> 00:16:08,260
And, you know, it all adds up.

292
00:16:08,260 --> 00:16:12,260
If you saw what happened on Saturday, if you saw all the people on the street,

293
00:16:12,260 --> 00:16:16,260
not just in New York but around the world, the millions and millions of people that took part in this,

294
00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:21,260
you realize that each one of those people added to the total number.

295
00:16:21,260 --> 00:16:26,260
And the total number may have been enough to actually stop something really horrible from happening in the world.

296
00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:29,260
I mean, I really think there's a good chance now.

297
00:16:29,260 --> 00:16:33,260
How can a war start now with all this opposition to it?

298
00:16:33,260 --> 00:16:39,260
You know, it's really going to be something if that's just ignored and they just go ahead anyway.

299
00:16:39,260 --> 00:16:41,260
I really think they're going to be on the defensive.

300
00:16:41,260 --> 00:16:45,260
But each individual person made a decision to be there, made a decision to, you know,

301
00:16:45,260 --> 00:16:48,260
it's always taking a risk of some sort to go to a demonstration or a rally.

302
00:16:48,260 --> 00:16:50,260
You don't know how the cops are going to react.

303
00:16:50,260 --> 00:16:54,260
And the sum of the total was something simply unbelievable.

304
00:16:54,260 --> 00:16:58,260
That's what we're asking you to be a part of right now, 212-209-2950.

305
00:16:58,260 --> 00:17:04,260
By calling up, pledging your support to the radio station, you'll be a part of a really great total,

306
00:17:04,260 --> 00:17:08,260
really more than $2,000, hopefully, which is where we seem to be stuck at right now.

307
00:17:08,260 --> 00:17:10,260
Well, it's not going to be more if people don't call.

308
00:17:10,260 --> 00:17:11,260
That's right.

309
00:17:12,260 --> 00:17:14,260
Maybe the police have cut these phone lines, too.

310
00:17:14,260 --> 00:17:15,260
You know, it's possible.

311
00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:16,260
I don't know.

312
00:17:16,260 --> 00:17:17,260
They seem to like to do that.

313
00:17:17,260 --> 00:17:19,260
But let's assume they didn't.

314
00:17:19,260 --> 00:17:24,260
212-209-2950 is the number to call to pledge to the radio station.

315
00:17:24,260 --> 00:17:25,260
Keep us going.

316
00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:28,260
Keep this show on the air.

317
00:17:28,260 --> 00:17:32,260
Keep alternative thought from disappearing entirely.

318
00:17:32,260 --> 00:17:37,260
I just want to mention that we take Visa, MasterCard, American Express, money orders, and checks.

319
00:17:37,260 --> 00:17:38,260
That's right.

320
00:17:38,260 --> 00:17:39,260
And cash, too.

321
00:17:39,260 --> 00:17:40,260
But don't send cash in the mail.

322
00:17:40,260 --> 00:17:41,260
Just walk in.

323
00:17:41,260 --> 00:17:42,260
Walk in and hand it to us.

324
00:17:42,260 --> 00:17:44,260
That's probably not the best way to do it.

325
00:17:44,260 --> 00:17:45,260
People have done it in the past.

326
00:17:45,260 --> 00:17:46,260
Unmarked bills.

327
00:17:46,260 --> 00:17:47,260
People have done it in the past.

328
00:17:47,260 --> 00:17:48,260
People have come with coin jars.

329
00:17:48,260 --> 00:17:50,260
That's how much this place means to them.

330
00:17:50,260 --> 00:17:56,260
And I know this place means a lot to a lot of people because I've seen them show up in winter's past,

331
00:17:56,260 --> 00:18:01,260
outside on Wall Street to rally to save the radio station from hostile forces.

332
00:18:01,260 --> 00:18:03,260
And, you know, that kind of thing could happen again.

333
00:18:04,260 --> 00:18:14,260
And if it does, it's always nice to be strong, to not be, you know, having to scrounge around to figure out how to put things together.

334
00:18:14,260 --> 00:18:16,260
It affects the on-air quality.

335
00:18:16,260 --> 00:18:17,260
It affects what we can do.

336
00:18:17,260 --> 00:18:18,260
It affects our flexibility.

337
00:18:18,260 --> 00:18:25,260
And that's why it's very important for us to maintain that strength because there's going to be a lot of adversity ahead, you know.

338
00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:29,260
And I don't think it's going to be coming from within anymore.

339
00:18:29,260 --> 00:18:33,260
I think a lot of it's going to be coming from outside forces.

340
00:18:33,260 --> 00:18:36,260
Basically, think the 1950s.

341
00:18:36,260 --> 00:18:38,260
Think the, you know, the Red Scare.

342
00:18:38,260 --> 00:18:39,260
Multiply that.

343
00:18:39,260 --> 00:18:42,260
Add in all the technology that's been invented since then.

344
00:18:42,260 --> 00:18:47,260
And you're going to have some pretty effective ways of keeping people down, keeping people quiet.

345
00:18:47,260 --> 00:18:51,260
And believe me, this radio station is a big obstacle.

346
00:18:51,260 --> 00:18:58,260
It's a big, you know, threat to people that want to control the way people think and talk and act.

347
00:18:58,260 --> 00:19:06,260
This place, as long as it's here, will continue to do things like we did on Saturday, like we do every day, but only with your support.

348
00:19:06,260 --> 00:19:08,260
202-209-2950.

349
00:19:08,260 --> 00:19:09,260
That was enough to get one phone call.

350
00:19:09,260 --> 00:19:12,260
You see how much work it takes to get one phone call?

351
00:19:12,260 --> 00:19:14,260
We need ten phone calls.

352
00:19:14,260 --> 00:19:15,260
Not kidding.

353
00:19:15,260 --> 00:19:16,260
You know what?

354
00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:24,260
People are really concerned about where they put their money lately and rightfully so between people who invested in Enron and lost all sorts of money that way.

355
00:19:24,260 --> 00:19:33,260
And you hear all sorts of things about various not-for-profit organizations that are supposed to be helping people in this or that country and how the money isn't really going there.

356
00:19:33,260 --> 00:19:46,260
WBAI is one of the probably best places that you can put your money, one of the best investments that you can make, because you're investing in educating yourself, educating people in your community about what's really going on in this day and age.

357
00:19:46,260 --> 00:19:50,260
And it's more important now than ever to know what's going on.

358
00:19:50,260 --> 00:19:56,260
And you hear people say that on the major news media, but they mean something different than we do.

359
00:19:56,260 --> 00:20:02,260
We're not talking about hearing the latest blather about where our latest troop buildups are in Iraq or things like that.

360
00:20:02,260 --> 00:20:14,260
We're talking about what the government is up to, what community organizations are up to, what's going on that's really going to affect your world in the near term, not just some far-off place.

361
00:20:15,260 --> 00:20:21,260
And we don't spend this money putting people on vacations or things like that.

362
00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:25,260
You can really come to this radio station, and we could show you where the money is going.

363
00:20:25,260 --> 00:20:28,260
It's going to keep this place running, and it's an important thing to do.

364
00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:32,260
Yeah, and for those of you who think that when I was away for six weeks, that was a radio station thing.

365
00:20:32,260 --> 00:20:34,260
No, that's something we do out of our own pockets.

366
00:20:34,260 --> 00:20:41,260
When we decide to go on the road and make documentaries or do anything else, it's all independent projects.

367
00:20:41,260 --> 00:20:47,260
What we have here is a voice for people to share experiences and things like that.

368
00:20:47,260 --> 00:20:50,260
None of us get paid to do radio every week.

369
00:20:50,260 --> 00:20:52,260
We just do it because we love to do it.

370
00:20:52,260 --> 00:20:56,260
And the same thing for just about all the projects we're involved in.

371
00:20:56,260 --> 00:20:58,260
It's something that needs to be done.

372
00:20:58,260 --> 00:21:05,260
And they should know that the radio station does not pay $2,600 for those shirts and those tapes.

373
00:21:05,260 --> 00:21:06,260
That's right.

374
00:21:06,260 --> 00:21:08,260
All the money goes to the work here.

375
00:21:08,260 --> 00:21:09,260
100%.

376
00:21:09,260 --> 00:21:13,260
Now, Seraf, you got a phone call for that little spiel, so congratulations.

377
00:21:13,260 --> 00:21:18,260
Now, Bernie, I believe you can probably get a handful of phone calls by telling us what the radio station means to you.

378
00:21:18,260 --> 00:21:25,260
I was just going to ask how I can pledge on the air without losing this phone connection.

379
00:21:25,260 --> 00:21:27,260
Well, that's going to be difficult.

380
00:21:27,260 --> 00:21:31,260
You'll probably have to use the three-way function on your phone, but then we'll hear all your credit card information.

381
00:21:31,260 --> 00:21:33,260
So we don't want to do that.

382
00:21:33,260 --> 00:21:35,260
Why don't you—

383
00:21:35,260 --> 00:21:36,260
I can do it on his behalf.

384
00:21:36,260 --> 00:21:37,260
Okay.

385
00:21:37,260 --> 00:21:39,260
Jeff will take all your information from you.

386
00:21:39,260 --> 00:21:40,260
I can.

387
00:21:40,260 --> 00:21:42,260
Which level did you want?

388
00:21:42,260 --> 00:21:44,260
What were the levels again?

389
00:21:44,260 --> 00:21:47,260
$75 and $125.

390
00:21:47,260 --> 00:21:50,260
$75, you'll get the off-the-hook T-shirt.

391
00:21:50,260 --> 00:21:58,260
For $125, you'll get the $2,600 hooded sweatshirt, plus other items as well, such as freedom downtime and the subscription to $2,600.

392
00:21:58,260 --> 00:22:00,260
I want the hooded sweatshirt.

393
00:22:01,260 --> 00:22:10,260
And more importantly, I want to support this radio show because it's meant an awful lot to me, and I know it's meant an awful lot to a lot of other people as well.

394
00:22:10,260 --> 00:22:18,260
So besides, I would really like a piece of $2,600 attire that's warm.

395
00:22:18,260 --> 00:22:19,260
Yeah, okay.

396
00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:20,260
No, that's a good point.

397
00:22:20,260 --> 00:22:24,260
We've only produced T-shirts in the past, and now we're branching out into winter wear.

398
00:22:24,260 --> 00:22:29,260
I guess some of the weather we've had this past winter has been inspiration for that.

399
00:22:29,260 --> 00:22:31,260
But people can wear hooded sweatshirts year-round.

400
00:22:31,260 --> 00:22:33,260
In fact, some people even wear them to bed.

401
00:22:33,260 --> 00:22:38,260
It's the kind of clothing you can never grow tired of, although other people might.

402
00:22:38,260 --> 00:22:41,260
But if you wear it, it can become a part of you.

403
00:22:41,260 --> 00:22:44,260
I haven't heard the telephone number people should call.

404
00:22:44,260 --> 00:22:47,260
212-209-2950.

405
00:22:47,260 --> 00:22:49,260
But Bernie, I'd like for you to tell us.

406
00:22:49,260 --> 00:22:52,260
I know you've told us this in the past, but we always get new listeners.

407
00:22:52,260 --> 00:22:57,260
What difference has this radio station made in your life in past years?

408
00:22:57,260 --> 00:23:00,260
Well, it had a very personal meaning to me a few years ago.

409
00:23:00,260 --> 00:23:07,260
It resulted in my—this radio program resulted in my freedom a few years ago

410
00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:14,260
when I was being held—geez, I think it was 14 months in all.

411
00:23:14,260 --> 00:23:20,260
I was held in five different prisons for an offense which the government admitted

412
00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:24,260
there were no victims involved, and it just pertained to possessing, not using,

413
00:23:24,260 --> 00:23:29,260
just possessing certain technology pertaining to telecommunications access.

414
00:23:29,260 --> 00:23:37,260
And were it not for this show and a real rallying of people listening to my plight

415
00:23:37,260 --> 00:23:43,260
over the months, months and months, who made a lot of phone calls on my behalf

416
00:23:43,260 --> 00:23:49,260
hearing about my situation, I am certain that I would not have been released when I was.

417
00:23:49,260 --> 00:23:53,260
So it's something I'm never going to forget the rest of my life,

418
00:23:53,260 --> 00:24:00,260
that this very radio show made a real difference, not just in my life,

419
00:24:00,260 --> 00:24:02,260
I'm sure in other people's lives, too.

420
00:24:02,260 --> 00:24:05,260
But it's something I'll carry around with me the rest of my life,

421
00:24:05,260 --> 00:24:10,260
and it was just the emotional support I got from people writing me,

422
00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:15,260
hearing me on the air, kept me going through that whole ordeal,

423
00:24:15,260 --> 00:24:17,260
and other people as well, I'm sure.

424
00:24:17,260 --> 00:24:26,260
So I owe an incalculable debt of gratitude to this show and to 2600 Magazine

425
00:24:26,260 --> 00:24:32,260
for keeping people aware of injustices, and there's plenty to go around.

426
00:24:32,260 --> 00:24:34,260
Mine was hardly unique.

427
00:24:34,260 --> 00:24:37,260
Mine was just well-known because of this show,

428
00:24:37,260 --> 00:24:42,260
so I felt very fortunate to have had access to the media this way.

429
00:24:42,260 --> 00:24:48,260
Well, the unfortunate part is that, yes, there will be additional stories like yours,

430
00:24:48,260 --> 00:24:51,260
maybe even worse.

431
00:24:51,260 --> 00:24:55,260
And I'm really afraid of what's going to happen to people

432
00:24:55,260 --> 00:24:58,260
who are in situations like that with all these new draconian laws.

433
00:24:58,260 --> 00:25:03,260
In fact, we want to talk about Patriot, too, in just a moment.

434
00:25:03,260 --> 00:25:10,260
A voice like WBAI's is so incredibly vital, it may be even more vital in the future

435
00:25:10,260 --> 00:25:16,260
when people are in prison for much more minor offenses,

436
00:25:16,260 --> 00:25:21,260
when they face all kinds of things like life imprisonment for nonviolent offenses

437
00:25:21,260 --> 00:25:26,260
or all kinds of scariness that's ahead, all in the interest of national security

438
00:25:26,260 --> 00:25:29,260
and the fight against terrorism and all that.

439
00:25:29,260 --> 00:25:31,260
Who is going to broadcast this information?

440
00:25:31,260 --> 00:25:33,260
Do you think Fox is going to do it?

441
00:25:33,260 --> 00:25:34,260
I don't think so.

442
00:25:34,260 --> 00:25:37,260
I don't think they're going to take any interest in that whatsoever.

443
00:25:37,260 --> 00:25:41,260
If someone is, in their eyes, guilty of a crime, they don't deserve anything.

444
00:25:41,260 --> 00:25:46,260
They don't deserve any kind of consideration or treatment, a human being.

445
00:25:46,260 --> 00:25:50,260
They basically will just ignore the story.

446
00:25:50,260 --> 00:25:55,260
And without a place like this, a lot of people are just going to disappear into the system.

447
00:25:55,260 --> 00:25:57,260
And this goes beyond the hacker world.

448
00:25:57,260 --> 00:26:03,260
The hacker world is only one element of society that's feeling this right now.

449
00:26:04,260 --> 00:26:09,260
There are so many other groups of people that are kind of uniting in outrage,

450
00:26:09,260 --> 00:26:14,260
and that's what we're seeing a reaction to day by day.

451
00:26:14,260 --> 00:26:19,260
But it's the radio station here that brings all these voices together.

452
00:26:19,260 --> 00:26:23,260
It would be a different world around here without it.

453
00:26:23,260 --> 00:26:26,260
It certainly would be, and a much scarier world.

454
00:26:26,260 --> 00:26:28,260
So please keep all that in mind

455
00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:31,260
and think about what you can afford to pledge to the radio station,

456
00:26:31,260 --> 00:26:33,260
what it means to you.

457
00:26:33,260 --> 00:26:38,260
If I had the money, I would be pledging many times more what the pledge level was,

458
00:26:38,260 --> 00:26:41,260
because this place is something that I really believe in,

459
00:26:41,260 --> 00:26:44,260
and I know the people here really believe in it.

460
00:26:44,260 --> 00:26:46,260
And it's an inspiration.

461
00:26:46,260 --> 00:26:51,260
Traveling around the country, I stopped at KPFK in Los Angeles.

462
00:26:51,260 --> 00:26:55,260
I was very happy to see that station has rebounded and has spirit again,

463
00:26:55,260 --> 00:26:58,260
because I saw it once before when it didn't.

464
00:26:58,260 --> 00:27:05,260
But apart from those few bastions of sanity and individual thought

465
00:27:05,260 --> 00:27:07,260
and all kinds of alternative ideas,

466
00:27:07,260 --> 00:27:11,260
apart from that, there's a lot of blandness out there,

467
00:27:11,260 --> 00:27:13,260
and people don't realize that there's no alternative.

468
00:27:13,260 --> 00:27:15,260
They get used to it.

469
00:27:15,260 --> 00:27:17,260
And if they do that, it's really, really sad.

470
00:27:17,260 --> 00:27:19,260
There's no future. There's no hope.

471
00:27:19,260 --> 00:27:23,260
So BAI, its quest for peace and justice,

472
00:27:23,260 --> 00:27:25,260
I think brings people a lot of hope as well.

473
00:27:25,260 --> 00:27:29,260
212-209-2950, that's the number to call to pledge.

474
00:27:29,260 --> 00:27:32,260
Just to tie back to the beginning of the show,

475
00:27:32,260 --> 00:27:35,260
you can easily spend $75 on duct tape and plastic sheeting,

476
00:27:35,260 --> 00:27:39,260
which may or may not work, and you may or may not be home to even use it.

477
00:27:39,260 --> 00:27:43,260
Or you can pledge $75 to WBAI

478
00:27:43,260 --> 00:27:48,260
and probably do a whole lot better for the world and your community,

479
00:27:48,260 --> 00:27:50,260
and even yourself.

480
00:27:50,260 --> 00:27:55,260
Once again, our number here is 212-209-2950.

481
00:27:55,260 --> 00:27:57,260
Any amount is useful.

482
00:27:57,260 --> 00:28:01,260
$75 gets you the upcoming T-shirt for the Off the Hook show.

483
00:28:01,260 --> 00:28:03,260
And a subscription or video.

484
00:28:03,260 --> 00:28:05,260
And a subscription or video, yes.

485
00:28:05,260 --> 00:28:07,260
And $125 gets you the T-shirt.

486
00:28:07,260 --> 00:28:08,260
That's right.

487
00:28:08,260 --> 00:28:09,260
You mean hooded sweatshirt.

488
00:28:09,260 --> 00:28:10,260
I'm sorry.

489
00:28:10,260 --> 00:28:11,260
The hooded sweatshirt, yes.

490
00:28:11,260 --> 00:28:12,260
Hooded sweatshirt.

491
00:28:12,260 --> 00:28:15,260
We're not very good at this, because we're not salesmen here.

492
00:28:15,260 --> 00:28:18,260
It's really hard to pitch our wares like this,

493
00:28:18,260 --> 00:28:19,260
but it's essential.

494
00:28:19,260 --> 00:28:20,260
It has to be done.

495
00:28:20,260 --> 00:28:23,260
If we don't do this, we have one of two choices.

496
00:28:23,260 --> 00:28:26,260
Either we give the station to somebody else,

497
00:28:26,260 --> 00:28:29,260
or we run commercials, and then we become somebody else.

498
00:28:29,260 --> 00:28:33,260
And I don't think either of those is a good opportunity for freedom of speech.

499
00:28:33,260 --> 00:28:34,260
I have a question.

500
00:28:34,260 --> 00:28:35,260
Yes.

501
00:28:35,260 --> 00:28:37,260
What if you only listen to Off the Hook?

502
00:28:37,260 --> 00:28:39,260
If you only listen to Off the Hook, this is your only chance,

503
00:28:39,260 --> 00:28:41,260
because we're not going to be on next week.

504
00:28:41,260 --> 00:28:44,260
And the next time we're on, it won't be the fundraiser.

505
00:28:44,260 --> 00:28:47,260
And if you listen to this show on the Internet afterwards,

506
00:28:47,260 --> 00:28:49,260
well, you know, we're not live.

507
00:28:49,260 --> 00:28:52,260
When you listen to us afterwards, we're live now, right now,

508
00:28:52,260 --> 00:28:57,260
at 825 p.m. on Wednesday, February.

509
00:28:57,260 --> 00:28:58,260
All right.

510
00:28:58,260 --> 00:28:59,260
I'm lost.

511
00:28:59,260 --> 00:29:00,260
Where am I?

512
00:29:00,260 --> 00:29:01,260
February 19th.

513
00:29:01,260 --> 00:29:02,260
19th.

514
00:29:02,260 --> 00:29:03,260
Thank you.

515
00:29:03,260 --> 00:29:04,260
2003.

516
00:29:04,260 --> 00:29:07,260
If that correlates to the time that you're in right now, Eastern Time,

517
00:29:07,260 --> 00:29:09,260
that means you're listening to us live.

518
00:29:09,260 --> 00:29:11,260
That means you can call us now,

519
00:29:11,260 --> 00:29:14,260
and you won't be able to do that in 35 minutes,

520
00:29:14,260 --> 00:29:16,260
because we won't be live anymore.

521
00:29:16,260 --> 00:29:19,260
We won't be alive, but we won't be live here in the studio.

522
00:29:19,260 --> 00:29:23,260
212-209-2950 is our phone number.

523
00:29:23,260 --> 00:29:25,260
We have four calls on the line.

524
00:29:25,260 --> 00:29:27,260
Bernie, you brought in quite a few calls before,

525
00:29:27,260 --> 00:29:29,260
which I want to thank you for.

526
00:29:29,260 --> 00:29:32,260
I'm amazed, but whatever works, you know?

527
00:29:32,260 --> 00:29:36,260
And we also want to ask anyone that called already to get us up to where we are now,

528
00:29:36,260 --> 00:29:38,260
we want to say thank you,

529
00:29:38,260 --> 00:29:43,260
and we'd like to ask you to call your friends to actually let them know that we're on now

530
00:29:43,260 --> 00:29:46,260
and that these premiums are available.

531
00:29:46,260 --> 00:29:47,260
Yeah.

532
00:29:47,260 --> 00:29:49,260
212-209-2950,

533
00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:55,260
and we have two levels of premiums for off the hook,

534
00:29:55,260 --> 00:29:58,260
but there's many, many other premiums that,

535
00:29:58,260 --> 00:30:01,260
if for some reason you don't want those ones,

536
00:30:01,260 --> 00:30:04,260
you can ask our tally people who pick up the phone when you call them.

537
00:30:04,260 --> 00:30:06,260
You can ask them about those,

538
00:30:06,260 --> 00:30:09,260
or you can pledge something else just to benefit the radio station,

539
00:30:09,260 --> 00:30:11,260
because that's what it's all about, you know?

540
00:30:11,260 --> 00:30:14,260
And I really hope people aren't just calling just to get things, you know, in the mail.

541
00:30:14,260 --> 00:30:17,260
I mean, it's cool to do that, but your real motivation,

542
00:30:17,260 --> 00:30:21,260
your real motivation should be the radio station itself to, you know,

543
00:30:21,260 --> 00:30:25,260
to help out, to keep us going.

544
00:30:25,260 --> 00:30:31,260
WBEI also offers some specific stuff like a hat, like a cap.

545
00:30:31,260 --> 00:30:34,260
It's a baseball cap with WBEI written on it,

546
00:30:34,260 --> 00:30:37,260
a T-shirt that also says WBEI on it,

547
00:30:37,260 --> 00:30:40,260
a tote bag, and a coffee mug,

548
00:30:40,260 --> 00:30:43,260
which some people here really love.

549
00:30:43,260 --> 00:30:48,260
And, yeah, so I think we should be talking about the Patriot 2.

550
00:30:48,260 --> 00:30:49,260
Patriot 2, yeah.

551
00:30:49,260 --> 00:30:50,260
We have seven calls on the line,

552
00:30:50,260 --> 00:30:52,260
so I want to thank those people for calling in.

553
00:30:52,260 --> 00:30:54,260
And you know it's only three calls away from ten,

554
00:30:54,260 --> 00:30:57,260
which is the number I've been bandying about all night.

555
00:30:57,260 --> 00:31:00,260
It's just good to see ten calls, because we have ten people down there, ten volunteers.

556
00:31:00,260 --> 00:31:03,260
If ten calls aren't on the line, that means three people

557
00:31:03,260 --> 00:31:06,260
who can't get to the phones as quickly as the other volunteers

558
00:31:06,260 --> 00:31:09,260
aren't getting calls, and then they get very sad,

559
00:31:09,260 --> 00:31:12,260
and it just sort of ruins their whole day.

560
00:31:12,260 --> 00:31:14,260
So seven calls on the line right now,

561
00:31:14,260 --> 00:31:16,260
another three, and everybody in that room is occupied.

562
00:31:16,260 --> 00:31:17,260
And happy.

563
00:31:17,260 --> 00:31:19,260
And happy. And we have people to thank.

564
00:31:19,260 --> 00:31:21,260
Okay, we're going to thank some people.

565
00:31:21,260 --> 00:31:22,260
Remember, first names only.

566
00:31:22,260 --> 00:31:25,260
And we don't read the street addresses or phone numbers of the people.

567
00:31:25,260 --> 00:31:26,260
Spread them out.

568
00:31:26,260 --> 00:31:28,260
These are people who have pledged so far.

569
00:31:28,260 --> 00:31:30,260
We should caution the people in the studio

570
00:31:30,260 --> 00:31:31,260
that these cards are not sorted,

571
00:31:31,260 --> 00:31:35,260
so we have to make sure that the yes box is checked

572
00:31:35,260 --> 00:31:38,260
in the read on air category.

573
00:31:38,260 --> 00:31:41,260
Maybe they should only give us the ones that say read on air to bring down here.

574
00:31:41,260 --> 00:31:43,260
They're hurried. They're in a rush.

575
00:31:43,260 --> 00:31:45,260
Well, that's good. We like it busy down there.

576
00:31:45,260 --> 00:31:47,260
212-209-2950.

577
00:31:47,260 --> 00:31:51,260
So we want to thank Daniel from Rego Park, New York.

578
00:31:51,260 --> 00:31:54,260
We don't want to thank this person.

579
00:31:54,260 --> 00:31:55,260
Well, we do.

580
00:31:55,260 --> 00:31:57,260
Well, we thank all the people that don't want to be thanked publicly.

581
00:31:57,260 --> 00:32:00,260
In fact, those are the people that really are, you know,

582
00:32:00,260 --> 00:32:03,260
they don't want to know, they want us to know who they are.

583
00:32:03,260 --> 00:32:05,260
They just want to help, and I respect that a lot.

584
00:32:06,260 --> 00:32:10,260
We want to thank Clinton from Oak Ridge, New Jersey,

585
00:32:10,260 --> 00:32:13,260
and Jesse from Brooklyn,

586
00:32:13,260 --> 00:32:16,260
and Michael from...

587
00:32:16,260 --> 00:32:21,260
I can't pronounce this. What do you think it says?

588
00:32:21,260 --> 00:32:22,260
Hopatcong.

589
00:32:22,260 --> 00:32:25,260
Hopatcong, New Jersey.

590
00:32:25,260 --> 00:32:31,260
If we pronounce that wrong, we thank you all the more for your forgiveness.

591
00:32:31,260 --> 00:32:36,260
We'd like to thank Elizabeth from Wilton, Connecticut.

592
00:32:36,260 --> 00:32:40,260
And, yeah, so those are the ones in my pile.

593
00:32:40,260 --> 00:32:42,260
Are we allowed to say anonymous in the city?

594
00:32:42,260 --> 00:32:44,260
Was that acceptable?

595
00:32:44,260 --> 00:32:47,260
We'd like to thank anonymous from Connecticut.

596
00:32:47,260 --> 00:32:49,260
I'm not going to name the town. I don't know how big it is.

597
00:32:49,260 --> 00:32:51,260
He may be the only listener there, and he'll be outed.

598
00:32:51,260 --> 00:32:55,260
And we'd like to thank someone anonymous in Brooklyn.

599
00:32:55,260 --> 00:32:57,260
And we'd like to thank... Oh, it's a read on air.

600
00:32:57,260 --> 00:33:01,260
We'd like to thank Marianne from Montclair, New Jersey.

601
00:33:01,260 --> 00:33:02,260
Is it Montclair?

602
00:33:02,260 --> 00:33:03,260
Montclair.

603
00:33:03,260 --> 00:33:06,260
Well, they have an empty period.

604
00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:10,260
Unless there is a Mount... It could be Mount Craig. I don't know.

605
00:33:10,260 --> 00:33:14,260
Well, hopefully the person that types it in will know.

606
00:33:14,260 --> 00:33:16,260
I'm sure the zip code will...

607
00:33:16,260 --> 00:33:19,260
Well, I won't read the zip code.

608
00:33:19,260 --> 00:33:21,260
Maybe we should only read the zip code.

609
00:33:21,260 --> 00:33:22,260
That's an idea.

610
00:33:22,260 --> 00:33:25,260
Well, this person doesn't have a yes or no thing checked off,

611
00:33:25,260 --> 00:33:30,260
so I'll just read the location, which is Brooklyn 11224.

612
00:33:30,260 --> 00:33:32,260
Thank you for clicking.

613
00:33:32,260 --> 00:33:36,260
Yes, thanks for that generous support there, 11224.

614
00:33:36,260 --> 00:33:38,260
That's a lot of money, 11224.

615
00:33:38,260 --> 00:33:40,260
We might as well just start addressing everybody as numbers now,

616
00:33:40,260 --> 00:33:42,260
because that's what it's going to turn into pretty soon.

617
00:33:42,260 --> 00:33:44,260
I am not a number. I am a free man.

618
00:33:44,260 --> 00:33:45,260
I've got a couple here.

619
00:33:45,260 --> 00:33:46,260
All right.

620
00:33:46,260 --> 00:33:49,260
We want to thank Bob from Stockton, New Jersey.

621
00:33:49,260 --> 00:33:51,260
Doreen from Glen Rock. I used to live there.

622
00:33:51,260 --> 00:33:52,260
This is both New Jersey?

623
00:33:52,260 --> 00:33:53,260
Yeah.

624
00:33:53,260 --> 00:33:54,260
Wow.

625
00:33:54,260 --> 00:33:55,260
I get all the Jersey ones.

626
00:33:55,260 --> 00:33:56,260
Uh-huh.

627
00:33:56,260 --> 00:33:59,260
Felix from New York, New York.

628
00:33:59,260 --> 00:34:00,260
Uh-huh.

629
00:34:00,260 --> 00:34:03,260
We've got Joanne from Summit, New Jersey,

630
00:34:03,260 --> 00:34:05,260
and Richard from Brick, New Jersey.

631
00:34:05,260 --> 00:34:07,260
This is a New Jersey night, isn't it?

632
00:34:07,260 --> 00:34:08,260
Heavily.

633
00:34:08,260 --> 00:34:09,260
Wow.

634
00:34:09,260 --> 00:34:11,260
Well, folks out there who aren't in New Jersey,

635
00:34:11,260 --> 00:34:13,260
not that I'm saying people from New Jersey shouldn't call,

636
00:34:13,260 --> 00:34:15,260
but I know people listen from all over the world.

637
00:34:15,260 --> 00:34:17,260
I didn't hear anything from outside the country.

638
00:34:17,260 --> 00:34:18,260
No?

639
00:34:18,260 --> 00:34:19,260
No.

640
00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:21,260
And I didn't hear very many from outside the tri-state area.

641
00:34:21,260 --> 00:34:24,260
I did have one from, well, no, it was not, I'm sorry,

642
00:34:24,260 --> 00:34:25,260
it wasn't outside the country.

643
00:34:25,260 --> 00:34:26,260
All right.

644
00:34:26,260 --> 00:34:27,260
It was far away.

645
00:34:27,260 --> 00:34:28,260
Well, please, give us a call.

646
00:34:28,260 --> 00:34:30,260
You can call no matter where you are,

647
00:34:30,260 --> 00:34:31,260
as long as you're listening to us live.

648
00:34:31,260 --> 00:34:35,260
212-209-2950 is our phone number.

649
00:34:35,260 --> 00:34:39,260
And Kevin Mitnick joins us now on the phone.

650
00:34:39,260 --> 00:34:40,260
Kevin, you there?

651
00:34:40,260 --> 00:34:41,260
Hi, Manuel.

652
00:34:41,260 --> 00:34:42,260
How you doing?

653
00:34:42,260 --> 00:34:43,260
How you doing?

654
00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:44,260
I'm doing good.

655
00:34:44,260 --> 00:34:45,260
Well, it's great to hear your voice again.

656
00:34:45,260 --> 00:34:46,260
You were on CNN today.

657
00:34:46,260 --> 00:34:48,260
I happened to catch you by accident.

658
00:34:48,260 --> 00:34:49,260
Yeah, that was kind of ironic.

659
00:34:49,260 --> 00:34:53,260
They called me at the last minute because they wanted to talk to somebody,

660
00:34:53,260 --> 00:34:58,260
I guess, who, you know, was a hacker before about this, you know,

661
00:34:58,260 --> 00:35:02,260
this big story about 8 million credit card numbers were compromised

662
00:35:02,260 --> 00:35:05,260
at that credit card processing company in Nebraska.

663
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:08,260
So they were talking to me about it, but it was kind of weird

664
00:35:08,260 --> 00:35:13,260
because in the middle of making a point about, you know, recurring billing,

665
00:35:13,260 --> 00:35:14,260
you know how that works?

666
00:35:14,260 --> 00:35:16,260
Like you sign up for these services on the Internet.

667
00:35:16,260 --> 00:35:17,260
Yes.

668
00:35:17,260 --> 00:35:20,260
And then you agree that, you know, they'll bill your credit card once a month,

669
00:35:20,260 --> 00:35:25,260
and then 60% of the populace, you know, doesn't ever cancel it.

670
00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:27,260
So even though you don't use the service anymore, you're still being billed for it.

671
00:35:27,260 --> 00:35:28,260
Right, right.

672
00:35:28,260 --> 00:35:33,260
And I was trying to make the point that probably a lot of these credit card companies

673
00:35:33,260 --> 00:35:37,260
do not, you know, want to bring people's attention to that fact,

674
00:35:37,260 --> 00:35:41,260
and that's maybe why they're not disclosing the name of the credit card processor

675
00:35:41,260 --> 00:35:43,260
because everybody would be looking for that name.

676
00:35:43,260 --> 00:35:47,260
But apparently a rumor was that this processor actually processes, like,

677
00:35:47,260 --> 00:35:49,260
those adult-type services.

678
00:35:49,260 --> 00:35:52,260
So I was making that point, and it was, like, cut off.

679
00:35:52,260 --> 00:35:57,260
And I don't know if it was a technical error or if it was intentional.

680
00:35:57,260 --> 00:35:58,260
It was weird.

681
00:35:58,260 --> 00:35:59,260
It was the first time it happened ever.

682
00:35:59,260 --> 00:36:04,260
I think it was you fell victim to commercial media because it was, I think,

683
00:36:04,260 --> 00:36:06,260
2.59 p.m. on the East Coast, and they, of course,

684
00:36:06,260 --> 00:36:08,260
couldn't let somebody talk until 3 o'clock.

685
00:36:08,260 --> 00:36:09,260
They had to take their break.

686
00:36:09,260 --> 00:36:12,260
They had to, you know, sell commercials.

687
00:36:12,260 --> 00:36:14,260
And even though you were making a really, really good point,

688
00:36:14,260 --> 00:36:16,260
one that I was fascinated by because, yes, that's absolutely true.

689
00:36:16,260 --> 00:36:18,260
That's what happens with credit cards.

690
00:36:18,260 --> 00:36:20,260
They would not let you finish.

691
00:36:20,260 --> 00:36:23,260
And, you know, it's not just people in the hacker community.

692
00:36:23,260 --> 00:36:26,260
I've seen them do this to, you know, world leaders as well.

693
00:36:26,260 --> 00:36:28,260
It's like, well, we only have two seconds to answer this question.

694
00:36:28,260 --> 00:36:30,260
Will there be a war tomorrow?

695
00:36:30,260 --> 00:36:31,260
And then they're off to the commercial.

696
00:36:31,260 --> 00:36:33,260
That's what really matters to them.

697
00:36:33,260 --> 00:36:34,260
That's the important thing.

698
00:36:34,260 --> 00:36:37,260
Yeah, I guess they call it a hard break.

699
00:36:37,260 --> 00:36:39,260
Yeah, it was a hard break, all right.

700
00:36:39,260 --> 00:36:40,260
Or a hard wrap.

701
00:36:40,260 --> 00:36:41,260
It was a real hard wrap.

702
00:36:41,260 --> 00:36:43,260
It was a real hard wrap, definitely, definitely.

703
00:36:43,260 --> 00:36:45,260
But I think you got the point across.

704
00:36:45,260 --> 00:36:47,260
And I think, you know, in this particular case, this story,

705
00:36:47,260 --> 00:36:49,260
which we haven't talked about, where a, quote, unquote,

706
00:36:49,260 --> 00:36:52,260
hacker, you know, got millions of credit card numbers,

707
00:36:52,260 --> 00:36:54,260
they don't say how they know this,

708
00:36:54,260 --> 00:36:56,260
and they won't reveal the name of the company.

709
00:36:56,260 --> 00:36:58,260
Oh, I know the name of the company.

710
00:36:58,260 --> 00:36:59,260
They released it on the wire.

711
00:36:59,260 --> 00:37:00,260
Oh, did they?

712
00:37:00,260 --> 00:37:01,260
So which company is it?

713
00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:06,260
God, it's some obscure name, and I had it written down.

714
00:37:07,260 --> 00:37:10,260
I can tell you in a second, because it's kind of ironic,

715
00:37:10,260 --> 00:37:12,260
because the guy that told me the name of the company

716
00:37:12,260 --> 00:37:14,260
was none other than Louis DePayne.

717
00:37:14,260 --> 00:37:16,260
Oh, Louis DePayne, wow.

718
00:37:16,260 --> 00:37:20,260
Yeah, he sent me an email, and he said, let's see,

719
00:37:20,260 --> 00:37:21,260
I'm looking at it.

720
00:37:21,260 --> 00:37:23,260
For those of you who saw the awful film,

721
00:37:23,260 --> 00:37:24,260
I'm sorry, for those of you who saw the awful film,

722
00:37:24,260 --> 00:37:28,260
Takedown, that's, Louis DePayne was your cohort in that film.

723
00:37:28,260 --> 00:37:29,260
Right.

724
00:37:29,260 --> 00:37:31,260
Yeah, I'm sorry, what was the name of the company?

725
00:37:31,260 --> 00:37:33,260
Data Processors International, DPI.

726
00:37:33,260 --> 00:37:35,260
I never even heard of it.

727
00:37:35,260 --> 00:37:37,260
Well, they all have names like that.

728
00:37:37,260 --> 00:37:39,260
We use a company like that ourselves,

729
00:37:39,260 --> 00:37:40,260
because we have an online store,

730
00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:43,260
so everybody who takes credit card numbers over the Internet

731
00:37:43,260 --> 00:37:45,260
has to have some bank process them,

732
00:37:45,260 --> 00:37:47,260
and there's a lot of credit card numbers

733
00:37:47,260 --> 00:37:48,260
that go through these companies,

734
00:37:48,260 --> 00:37:50,260
so obviously they're going to be pretty embarrassed

735
00:37:50,260 --> 00:37:52,260
that they were wide open

736
00:37:52,260 --> 00:37:55,260
and let all these people's information go through.

737
00:37:55,260 --> 00:37:58,260
So, well, it's good that the information finally got out.

738
00:37:58,260 --> 00:38:01,260
Also, a funny thing about CNN is,

739
00:38:01,260 --> 00:38:03,260
I was watching it at 2 a.m.,

740
00:38:03,260 --> 00:38:05,260
and what they do is they show reruns

741
00:38:05,260 --> 00:38:07,260
of what they showed in the morning.

742
00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:09,260
Well, they show Larry King live three times.

743
00:38:09,260 --> 00:38:12,260
Yeah, and at night, they could just play European news,

744
00:38:12,260 --> 00:38:15,260
which are never covered in the U.S.

745
00:38:15,260 --> 00:38:16,260
They used to do that.

746
00:38:16,260 --> 00:38:17,260
They used to play international news.

747
00:38:17,260 --> 00:38:19,260
But that only happened after September 11,

748
00:38:19,260 --> 00:38:21,260
and that was happening from only about like two months,

749
00:38:21,260 --> 00:38:23,260
and then they went back to reruns.

750
00:38:23,260 --> 00:38:24,260
Well, if you're lucky enough to get a channel

751
00:38:24,260 --> 00:38:26,260
called CNN International, they actually do that,

752
00:38:26,260 --> 00:38:28,260
and it's much more intelligent,

753
00:38:28,260 --> 00:38:30,260
and they treat people like they have a brain,

754
00:38:30,260 --> 00:38:31,260
and, of course, you don't get that channel

755
00:38:31,260 --> 00:38:32,260
anywhere in this country.

756
00:38:32,260 --> 00:38:35,260
On the weekend, you get it on the same channel

757
00:38:35,260 --> 00:38:36,260
that CNN Financial News is on,

758
00:38:36,260 --> 00:38:39,260
but that's only two days a week.

759
00:38:39,260 --> 00:38:41,260
Now, Kevin, first of all,

760
00:38:41,260 --> 00:38:43,260
I'd like you to just say a couple of words

761
00:38:43,260 --> 00:38:44,260
about the radio station,

762
00:38:44,260 --> 00:38:45,260
just so we can get some more people calling in,

763
00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:48,260
and then we have a story involving you as well,

764
00:38:48,260 --> 00:38:50,260
and we also want to talk about Patriot, too.

765
00:38:50,260 --> 00:38:51,260
Right, well...

766
00:38:51,260 --> 00:38:54,260
So perhaps you could just get people to call us

767
00:38:54,260 --> 00:38:57,260
and pledge to this radio station, because it's...

768
00:38:58,260 --> 00:39:00,260
I believe WBA, or Pacifica Radio,

769
00:39:00,260 --> 00:39:07,260
serves the public,

770
00:39:07,260 --> 00:39:12,260
and I know that Emmanuel has really gotten the word out

771
00:39:12,260 --> 00:39:15,260
about my case and my trials and tribulations

772
00:39:15,260 --> 00:39:18,260
in large part through WBAI,

773
00:39:18,260 --> 00:39:20,260
so I really am a supporter,

774
00:39:20,260 --> 00:39:24,260
and I hope that other people out there in the community

775
00:39:24,260 --> 00:39:26,260
also will support WBAI.

776
00:39:26,260 --> 00:39:31,260
In fact, I remember I donated several books,

777
00:39:31,260 --> 00:39:34,260
one book I wrote, The Art of Deception,

778
00:39:34,260 --> 00:39:37,260
and we raised some money with that.

779
00:39:37,260 --> 00:39:38,260
We raised a good amount.

780
00:39:38,260 --> 00:39:40,260
In fact, that was the last fundraiser,

781
00:39:40,260 --> 00:39:41,260
where you were here,

782
00:39:41,260 --> 00:39:44,260
Kevin spent a good hour and a half afterwards

783
00:39:44,260 --> 00:39:45,260
just signing books,

784
00:39:45,260 --> 00:39:47,260
because that was the premium then,

785
00:39:47,260 --> 00:39:49,260
and it was great.

786
00:39:49,260 --> 00:39:50,260
It was just great seeing all the activities,

787
00:39:50,260 --> 00:39:52,260
seeing all the interest that there was,

788
00:39:52,260 --> 00:39:55,260
and that helped build the station

789
00:39:55,260 --> 00:39:57,260
to the point where we could do what we did on Saturday,

790
00:39:57,260 --> 00:39:59,260
where we could do all kinds of great programming

791
00:39:59,260 --> 00:40:01,260
and just keep going.

792
00:40:01,260 --> 00:40:03,260
We need to replenish that every now and then,

793
00:40:03,260 --> 00:40:05,260
three times a year is basically what it takes

794
00:40:05,260 --> 00:40:07,260
to keep this place going with no commercials,

795
00:40:07,260 --> 00:40:11,260
so that's why it's so vital that you show your support

796
00:40:11,260 --> 00:40:13,260
and basically make a vote,

797
00:40:13,260 --> 00:40:14,260
make an investment in this place

798
00:40:14,260 --> 00:40:17,260
so that we can keep on going.

799
00:40:17,260 --> 00:40:21,260
212-209-2950 is our phone number,

800
00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:23,260
and it's...

801
00:40:23,260 --> 00:40:26,260
Well, Kevin, now, you have...

802
00:40:26,260 --> 00:40:28,260
I should point out, Bernie S. is on the line, too.

803
00:40:28,260 --> 00:40:30,260
You guys met on the phone.

804
00:40:30,260 --> 00:40:32,260
We can actually legally speak to each other now,

805
00:40:32,260 --> 00:40:33,260
so that's great.

806
00:40:33,260 --> 00:40:35,260
A couple of weeks ago, I was out somewhere,

807
00:40:35,260 --> 00:40:36,260
I think in California,

808
00:40:36,260 --> 00:40:38,260
and you two were on the phone for the first time

809
00:40:38,260 --> 00:40:39,260
on the radio station.

810
00:40:39,260 --> 00:40:43,260
It was really cool getting everybody together.

811
00:40:43,260 --> 00:40:45,260
Hey, Emmanuel, just in...

812
00:40:45,260 --> 00:40:47,260
Because I know you guys have, what,

813
00:40:47,260 --> 00:40:49,260
about 25 minutes left of airtime?

814
00:40:49,260 --> 00:40:50,260
Yeah.

815
00:40:50,260 --> 00:40:51,260
I'll tell you what.

816
00:40:51,260 --> 00:40:56,260
If you want, I'll donate five books to WBAI now,

817
00:40:56,260 --> 00:41:00,260
so if you want to auction those off on the air now

818
00:41:00,260 --> 00:41:02,260
for contributions,

819
00:41:02,260 --> 00:41:04,260
I will contribute five books so you can do that.

820
00:41:04,260 --> 00:41:06,260
Well, okay, we'll figure out a way to do that.

821
00:41:06,260 --> 00:41:07,260
I don't know...

822
00:41:07,260 --> 00:41:09,260
I can run back and tell them.

823
00:41:09,260 --> 00:41:11,260
Well, it's a little bit more bureaucratic than that.

824
00:41:11,260 --> 00:41:14,260
It's got to be approved by the tally people,

825
00:41:14,260 --> 00:41:17,260
not by the person in charge of premium.

826
00:41:17,260 --> 00:41:19,260
So if there's somebody back there that can do that

827
00:41:19,260 --> 00:41:20,260
and approve this,

828
00:41:20,260 --> 00:41:23,260
we can maybe set something up in 25 minutes.

829
00:41:23,260 --> 00:41:24,260
Otherwise, if we can't,

830
00:41:24,260 --> 00:41:26,260
we'll certainly hold over until the next fundraiser

831
00:41:26,260 --> 00:41:27,260
and do something with it then.

832
00:41:27,260 --> 00:41:28,260
But thanks, Kevin.

833
00:41:28,260 --> 00:41:31,260
Thanks so much for your generosity there.

834
00:41:31,260 --> 00:41:33,260
And by the way, hi, Bernie.

835
00:41:33,260 --> 00:41:35,260
And by the way, Emmanuel,

836
00:41:35,260 --> 00:41:37,260
another interesting note is,

837
00:41:37,260 --> 00:41:39,260
you know I started Defensive Thinking,

838
00:41:39,260 --> 00:41:41,260
a new security company,

839
00:41:41,260 --> 00:41:44,260
and of course I'm sure everybody's heard the news

840
00:41:44,260 --> 00:41:48,260
that someone had exploited a vulnerability in Microsoft IIS

841
00:41:48,260 --> 00:41:50,260
and was able to upload a file.

842
00:41:50,260 --> 00:41:54,260
And then they posted a link to this in a form that we have

843
00:41:54,260 --> 00:41:56,260
and then sent it to the media.

844
00:41:56,260 --> 00:41:57,260
And it was kind of funny

845
00:41:57,260 --> 00:42:01,260
because I had no direct dealings with this particular server,

846
00:42:01,260 --> 00:42:02,260
but people thought that

847
00:42:02,260 --> 00:42:04,260
since it was Kevin Mitnick's company

848
00:42:04,260 --> 00:42:06,260
that that would be a good thing to hack

849
00:42:06,260 --> 00:42:07,260
to become king of the hill.

850
00:42:07,260 --> 00:42:10,260
But what's more interesting is

851
00:42:10,260 --> 00:42:13,260
our website has been under denial-of-service attack

852
00:42:13,260 --> 00:42:14,260
for the last couple days.

853
00:42:14,260 --> 00:42:15,260
Really?

854
00:42:15,260 --> 00:42:17,260
Yeah, so somebody has really...

855
00:42:17,260 --> 00:42:23,260
I think they're really after the media publicity or something.

856
00:42:23,260 --> 00:42:28,260
And so they've been causing some problems.

857
00:42:28,260 --> 00:42:30,260
But what I'm going to do is I'm just going to,

858
00:42:30,260 --> 00:42:33,260
rather than have it hosted in-house by volunteers,

859
00:42:33,260 --> 00:42:36,260
I'm just going to send it over to some web hosting company.

860
00:42:36,260 --> 00:42:41,260
So I'm looking for one now so they can host the site.

861
00:42:41,260 --> 00:42:43,260
Well, you see, it's important to note

862
00:42:43,260 --> 00:42:45,260
that people who do this,

863
00:42:45,260 --> 00:42:47,260
anybody can be destructive.

864
00:42:47,260 --> 00:42:49,260
Anybody can break a window.

865
00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:50,260
Anybody can cause mayhem.

866
00:42:50,260 --> 00:42:52,260
It doesn't take much in the way of intelligence.

867
00:42:52,260 --> 00:42:54,260
And the same goes for the Internet.

868
00:42:54,260 --> 00:42:56,260
It doesn't take much to knock something off the net.

869
00:42:56,260 --> 00:42:58,260
It takes a lot to build something, though.

870
00:42:58,260 --> 00:43:01,260
And that's where I think real hacking comes in,

871
00:43:01,260 --> 00:43:02,260
is building something,

872
00:43:02,260 --> 00:43:04,260
is discovering things, designing things.

873
00:43:04,260 --> 00:43:07,260
So if somebody out there is under the mistaken belief

874
00:43:07,260 --> 00:43:10,260
that by taking down Kevin's website

875
00:43:10,260 --> 00:43:12,260
you're somehow the king of the hacker world,

876
00:43:12,260 --> 00:43:14,260
no, it doesn't work that way.

877
00:43:14,260 --> 00:43:15,260
It does not work that way at all.

878
00:43:15,260 --> 00:43:17,260
More likely you're just somebody that can't deal

879
00:43:17,260 --> 00:43:19,260
with different thoughts and opinions

880
00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:22,260
and feel threatened by anything having to do with that.

881
00:43:22,260 --> 00:43:25,260
Kevin, if you need help with, you know,

882
00:43:25,260 --> 00:43:28,260
tracking it down or stopping it or something like that,

883
00:43:28,260 --> 00:43:29,260
I'm sure there's many people here

884
00:43:29,260 --> 00:43:31,260
that will write in to help out with that.

885
00:43:31,260 --> 00:43:33,260
You know, what was interesting is that UUNet,

886
00:43:33,260 --> 00:43:36,260
who was the provider of the company's bandwidth

887
00:43:36,260 --> 00:43:37,260
that we were using,

888
00:43:37,260 --> 00:43:39,260
because it wasn't defensive thinking,

889
00:43:39,260 --> 00:43:42,260
it was the building that we're in.

890
00:43:42,260 --> 00:43:45,260
It's their services provided by UUNet.

891
00:43:45,260 --> 00:43:51,260
And UUNet actually, the attack was so significant

892
00:43:51,260 --> 00:43:53,260
they actually had to block,

893
00:43:53,260 --> 00:43:58,260
they actually had difficulty stopping the attack at the upstream.

894
00:44:01,260 --> 00:44:03,260
There was like one or two machines

895
00:44:03,260 --> 00:44:07,260
that was doing what they call a thin attack at port 80.

896
00:44:07,260 --> 00:44:09,260
And it's kind of interesting because port 80

897
00:44:09,260 --> 00:44:11,260
is usually a port that you want to have open.

898
00:44:11,260 --> 00:44:13,260
Usually if they do it to another port,

899
00:44:13,260 --> 00:44:14,260
you can just close the port

900
00:44:14,260 --> 00:44:18,260
and that's a good way to minimize the attack.

901
00:44:18,260 --> 00:44:21,260
So UUNet actually, it affected that.

902
00:44:21,260 --> 00:44:22,260
So it was kind of interesting.

903
00:44:22,260 --> 00:44:24,260
Well, now we have a limited amount of time,

904
00:44:24,260 --> 00:44:29,260
so let's quickly talk about what we'd like to do with you, Kevin.

905
00:44:29,260 --> 00:44:30,260
And then we're going to get into,

906
00:44:30,260 --> 00:44:33,260
we've been promoting this all night, Patriot 2.

907
00:44:33,260 --> 00:44:34,260
But Kevin, now you've been,

908
00:44:34,260 --> 00:44:38,260
you were basically finally freed from the restrictions

909
00:44:38,260 --> 00:44:40,260
that you were under for the last three years.

910
00:44:40,260 --> 00:44:42,260
January 21st, I believe.

911
00:44:42,260 --> 00:44:44,260
You were allowed to use the internet.

912
00:44:44,260 --> 00:44:47,260
You were allowed to talk to people like Bernie S.

913
00:44:47,260 --> 00:44:53,260
And it's great that you're able to really be free,

914
00:44:53,260 --> 00:44:56,260
as much as freedom means these days.

915
00:44:56,260 --> 00:44:58,260
That's a good point.

916
00:44:58,260 --> 00:44:59,260
Yeah.

917
00:44:59,260 --> 00:45:01,260
One thing that we've been toying with,

918
00:45:01,260 --> 00:45:03,260
the idea that something we'd like to do

919
00:45:03,260 --> 00:45:05,260
that's perhaps a bit more fun

920
00:45:05,260 --> 00:45:07,260
is to have a celebration of sorts.

921
00:45:08,260 --> 00:45:10,260
Tell us something about what you'd like to do, Kevin.

922
00:45:10,260 --> 00:45:11,260
I would definitely like,

923
00:45:11,260 --> 00:45:14,260
I'd like to throw a party where everybody is invited.

924
00:45:14,260 --> 00:45:17,260
And I don't know where the proper venue would be

925
00:45:17,260 --> 00:45:21,260
because there's an issue of the expense of traveling.

926
00:45:21,260 --> 00:45:24,260
And I was either thinking of throwing it,

927
00:45:24,260 --> 00:45:28,260
having it in New York where 2600 is,

928
00:45:28,260 --> 00:45:31,260
or having it in Las Vegas where my family is.

929
00:45:31,260 --> 00:45:34,260
But trying to coordinate it with another event

930
00:45:34,260 --> 00:45:37,260
that computer enthusiasts travel to.

931
00:45:37,260 --> 00:45:41,260
And the one that came to mind was DEF CON, of course,

932
00:45:41,260 --> 00:45:43,260
because a lot of people travel to that

933
00:45:43,260 --> 00:45:45,260
and they also travel to the conferences

934
00:45:45,260 --> 00:45:46,260
that you put on, Emmanuel,

935
00:45:46,260 --> 00:45:48,260
but unfortunately you're not doing one this year.

936
00:45:48,260 --> 00:45:49,260
Right.

937
00:45:49,260 --> 00:45:51,260
It would be perfect if one was happening this year

938
00:45:51,260 --> 00:45:53,260
because then it could be simultaneous,

939
00:45:53,260 --> 00:45:55,260
it could be in conjunction with that.

940
00:45:55,260 --> 00:45:59,260
So what I'm hoping to do is throw a great party,

941
00:45:59,260 --> 00:46:02,260
open bar, food, catered food,

942
00:46:02,260 --> 00:46:04,260
and some entertainment.

943
00:46:04,260 --> 00:46:06,260
Maybe we could have you as entertainment.

944
00:46:06,260 --> 00:46:08,260
Well, I can be entertaining in crowds sometimes,

945
00:46:08,260 --> 00:46:10,260
but I think you can probably do better.

946
00:46:10,260 --> 00:46:14,260
I know there are musical groups, musicians,

947
00:46:14,260 --> 00:46:15,260
all kinds of people out there

948
00:46:15,260 --> 00:46:17,260
who have followed your case and supported you.

949
00:46:17,260 --> 00:46:21,260
And maybe this is a good time to ask any of them,

950
00:46:21,260 --> 00:46:23,260
would you be interested in being part of something like this?

951
00:46:23,260 --> 00:46:26,260
All we basically need to do is cover the expense of the place

952
00:46:26,260 --> 00:46:30,260
and whatever we have to do to make this happen.

953
00:46:31,260 --> 00:46:33,260
We just basically don't want to lose money on it.

954
00:46:33,260 --> 00:46:35,260
We want to break even.

955
00:46:35,260 --> 00:46:36,260
Exactly.

956
00:46:36,260 --> 00:46:37,260
That's the whole idea.

957
00:46:37,260 --> 00:46:39,260
We want to either raise the funds

958
00:46:39,260 --> 00:46:41,260
or set up some sort of structure

959
00:46:41,260 --> 00:46:43,260
where people purchase tickets

960
00:46:43,260 --> 00:46:45,260
and the whole idea is to break even.

961
00:46:45,260 --> 00:46:46,260
Right.

962
00:46:46,260 --> 00:46:48,260
So if someone out there knows of a place or has a place

963
00:46:48,260 --> 00:46:50,260
that's big enough to hold, what do you think,

964
00:46:50,260 --> 00:46:52,260
several hundred people?

965
00:46:52,260 --> 00:46:53,260
You'd hope so.

966
00:46:53,260 --> 00:46:54,260
Several thousand people?

967
00:46:54,260 --> 00:46:57,260
You'd hope so because everybody would be invited,

968
00:46:57,260 --> 00:46:59,260
friend or foe.

969
00:46:59,260 --> 00:47:03,260
And the whole idea is it would be a great celebration

970
00:47:03,260 --> 00:47:07,260
and a great way to network with other people.

971
00:47:07,260 --> 00:47:09,260
Well, that's definitely something

972
00:47:09,260 --> 00:47:11,260
that I would be interested in doing.

973
00:47:11,260 --> 00:47:15,260
And if someone out there either wants to add to the program

974
00:47:15,260 --> 00:47:17,260
or to the venue or something like that,

975
00:47:17,260 --> 00:47:22,260
contact us, oth at 2600.com, with your ideas, thoughts.

976
00:47:22,260 --> 00:47:24,260
And we'd like to do it in New York,

977
00:47:24,260 --> 00:47:26,260
but if it's someplace else,

978
00:47:26,260 --> 00:47:28,260
we're willing to listen to that as well.

979
00:47:28,260 --> 00:47:30,260
I think it would be great fun,

980
00:47:30,260 --> 00:47:32,260
and it's good to celebrate every now and then,

981
00:47:32,260 --> 00:47:36,260
to sort of realize that good things are happening.

982
00:47:36,260 --> 00:47:38,260
Yeah, we always talk about the horror stories

983
00:47:38,260 --> 00:47:40,260
and all the things that are going bad,

984
00:47:40,260 --> 00:47:44,260
so it would be actually a change of pace

985
00:47:44,260 --> 00:47:46,260
to actually have a celebration.

986
00:47:46,260 --> 00:47:48,260
And I think all my supporters

987
00:47:48,260 --> 00:47:51,260
who have been there for me throughout the years,

988
00:47:51,260 --> 00:47:55,260
it would be a great opportunity for everybody.

989
00:47:55,260 --> 00:47:57,260
Yeah, absolutely.

990
00:47:57,260 --> 00:48:01,260
How are you adjusting now, Kevin, to your newfound,

991
00:48:01,260 --> 00:48:03,260
I guess we'll call it freedom?

992
00:48:03,260 --> 00:48:05,260
I'm adjusting fine.

993
00:48:05,260 --> 00:48:07,260
I've been extremely busy.

994
00:48:07,260 --> 00:48:10,260
I was just in Houston for the last few days.

995
00:48:10,260 --> 00:48:12,260
I was actually doing a webcast

996
00:48:12,260 --> 00:48:14,260
with a company called NetIQ.

997
00:48:14,260 --> 00:48:15,260
If you're interested in watching it,

998
00:48:15,260 --> 00:48:17,260
you can go to their website.

999
00:48:17,260 --> 00:48:18,260
It was kind of interesting.

1000
00:48:18,260 --> 00:48:20,260
It was talking about social engineering

1001
00:48:20,260 --> 00:48:21,260
and stuff like that.

1002
00:48:21,260 --> 00:48:25,260
And I've been pretty much being,

1003
00:48:25,260 --> 00:48:27,260
my livelihood has pretty much been

1004
00:48:27,260 --> 00:48:28,260
working with defensive thinking

1005
00:48:28,260 --> 00:48:30,260
and doing speaking engagements.

1006
00:48:30,260 --> 00:48:32,260
And I haven't really had any time

1007
00:48:32,260 --> 00:48:34,260
for any really free time.

1008
00:48:34,260 --> 00:48:36,260
And all my internet usage is really just

1009
00:48:36,260 --> 00:48:38,260
reading and responding to email.

1010
00:48:38,260 --> 00:48:41,260
Literally, my email queue is backed up

1011
00:48:41,260 --> 00:48:45,260
to 1,794 messages.

1012
00:48:45,260 --> 00:48:47,260
That's not that many.

1013
00:48:47,260 --> 00:48:49,260
That's not that many.

1014
00:48:49,260 --> 00:48:50,260
It isn't.

1015
00:48:50,260 --> 00:48:52,260
No, I'm over 10,000 myself.

1016
00:48:52,260 --> 00:48:54,260
Well, do you want an extra 1,700?

1017
00:48:54,260 --> 00:48:56,260
Well, not really, no.

1018
00:48:56,260 --> 00:48:57,260
Okay.

1019
00:48:57,260 --> 00:48:59,260
I want to apologize to all the people

1020
00:48:59,260 --> 00:49:01,260
I haven't replied to.

1021
00:49:01,260 --> 00:49:03,260
Within five years, I'm sure I'll get to you.

1022
00:49:03,260 --> 00:49:05,260
Yeah, I have to apologize too

1023
00:49:05,260 --> 00:49:07,260
because I remember I'm going to Poland

1024
00:49:07,260 --> 00:49:09,260
between March 1st and March 12th

1025
00:49:09,260 --> 00:49:10,260
and people were asking about

1026
00:49:10,260 --> 00:49:11,260
where I'm going to be talking.

1027
00:49:11,260 --> 00:49:14,260
I really don't have those places.

1028
00:49:14,260 --> 00:49:16,260
And a lot of those emails,

1029
00:49:16,260 --> 00:49:17,260
I couldn't even respond to

1030
00:49:17,260 --> 00:49:18,260
because I just don't know

1031
00:49:18,260 --> 00:49:20,260
at this point in time.

1032
00:49:20,260 --> 00:49:21,260
But I'm going to find out.

1033
00:49:21,260 --> 00:49:23,260
Okay.

1034
00:49:24,260 --> 00:49:26,260
There'll be all kinds of other possibilities

1035
00:49:26,260 --> 00:49:30,260
as far as places that you might be appearing.

1036
00:49:30,260 --> 00:49:32,260
Why not Krakow?

1037
00:49:32,260 --> 00:49:34,260
Yeah, I'm going to Krakow.

1038
00:49:34,260 --> 00:49:35,260
There you go.

1039
00:49:35,260 --> 00:49:36,260
How appropriate.

1040
00:49:36,260 --> 00:49:37,260
Okay.

1041
00:49:37,260 --> 00:49:38,260
Yeah.

1042
00:49:38,260 --> 00:49:39,260
Again, if you have ideas as to

1043
00:49:39,260 --> 00:49:40,260
how the Kevin Mitnick Party

1044
00:49:40,260 --> 00:49:42,260
can be staged here in New York or elsewhere,

1045
00:49:42,260 --> 00:49:45,260
please write to us, othat2600.com.

1046
00:49:45,260 --> 00:49:47,260
Now, to get to some of the

1047
00:49:47,260 --> 00:49:50,260
pre-discussed horror stories.

1048
00:49:50,260 --> 00:49:52,260
Sarah, if you have some information for us

1049
00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:55,260
on the new legislation called Patriot 2,

1050
00:49:55,260 --> 00:49:56,260
before we begin,

1051
00:49:56,260 --> 00:49:58,260
just one more appeal to people.

1052
00:49:58,260 --> 00:49:59,260
Please call up, show your support

1053
00:49:59,260 --> 00:50:01,260
so that you can continue to hear voices

1054
00:50:01,260 --> 00:50:03,260
like Kevin's, like Bernie's,

1055
00:50:03,260 --> 00:50:05,260
like ours, like yours.

1056
00:50:05,260 --> 00:50:08,260
At 212-209-2950,

1057
00:50:08,260 --> 00:50:09,260
we have two pledge levels,

1058
00:50:09,260 --> 00:50:12,260
$75 for a brand new off-the-hook t-shirt

1059
00:50:12,260 --> 00:50:15,260
and your choice of a subscription to 2600

1060
00:50:15,260 --> 00:50:17,260
or a Freedom Downtime video,

1061
00:50:17,260 --> 00:50:20,260
the film that Kevin Mitnick and Bernie Yes are in,

1062
00:50:20,260 --> 00:50:22,260
or 125.

1063
00:50:22,260 --> 00:50:25,260
You'll get a brand new 2600 hooded sweatshirt

1064
00:50:25,260 --> 00:50:28,260
that you can wear in any social situation

1065
00:50:28,260 --> 00:50:30,260
and also a videotape

1066
00:50:30,260 --> 00:50:32,260
and a subscription to 2600,

1067
00:50:32,260 --> 00:50:34,260
all three things.

1068
00:50:34,260 --> 00:50:35,260
The most important thing, though,

1069
00:50:35,260 --> 00:50:36,260
is show your support for the radio station.

1070
00:50:36,260 --> 00:50:37,260
Keep us going.

1071
00:50:37,260 --> 00:50:39,260
Keep this kind of talk on the air.

1072
00:50:39,260 --> 00:50:41,260
212-209-2950.

1073
00:50:41,260 --> 00:50:42,260
Our numbers are going up.

1074
00:50:42,260 --> 00:50:44,260
We're up to 3625.

1075
00:50:44,260 --> 00:50:45,260
That's pretty cool.

1076
00:50:45,260 --> 00:50:47,260
And my goal is, what, 5,000?

1077
00:50:47,260 --> 00:50:49,260
So that means we have to raise $1,400

1078
00:50:49,260 --> 00:50:51,260
in the next 14 minutes.

1079
00:50:51,260 --> 00:50:53,260
That's like $100 a minute.

1080
00:50:53,260 --> 00:50:55,260
That means we're going to have to get some calls coming in.

1081
00:50:55,260 --> 00:50:56,260
Let's remind people once again, too,

1082
00:50:56,260 --> 00:50:57,260
that really any amount helps.

1083
00:50:57,260 --> 00:50:58,260
Any amount helps.

1084
00:50:58,260 --> 00:50:59,260
And, you know, we got this high

1085
00:50:59,260 --> 00:51:01,260
because of all the people who called in.

1086
00:51:01,260 --> 00:51:02,260
You know, we started at zero,

1087
00:51:02,260 --> 00:51:04,260
and now we're at 3625,

1088
00:51:04,260 --> 00:51:05,260
which is no small bit of change,

1089
00:51:05,260 --> 00:51:07,260
in my world, anyway.

1090
00:51:07,260 --> 00:51:10,260
212-209-2950.

1091
00:51:10,260 --> 00:51:11,260
We have Kevin Mitnick with us.

1092
00:51:11,260 --> 00:51:12,260
We have Bernie Yes with us.

1093
00:51:12,260 --> 00:51:14,260
We have a whole cast of characters here in the studio,

1094
00:51:14,260 --> 00:51:16,260
and we have you, our listeners,

1095
00:51:16,260 --> 00:51:17,260
who are probably the most important part

1096
00:51:17,260 --> 00:51:18,260
of the whole thing.

1097
00:51:18,260 --> 00:51:20,260
212-209-2950.

1098
00:51:20,260 --> 00:51:22,260
Three calls on the line.

1099
00:51:22,260 --> 00:51:23,260
We can easily make that 10 again.

1100
00:51:23,260 --> 00:51:25,260
Remember, there's 10 volunteers down there,

1101
00:51:25,260 --> 00:51:27,260
all waiting for your call.

1102
00:51:27,260 --> 00:51:30,260
And this is your last chance for this radio program

1103
00:51:30,260 --> 00:51:32,260
because we're going off in 14 minutes,

1104
00:51:32,260 --> 00:51:35,260
and we won't be back until after the fundraiser is over.

1105
00:51:35,260 --> 00:51:36,260
Four calls on the line.

1106
00:51:36,260 --> 00:51:39,260
212-209-2950.

1107
00:51:39,260 --> 00:51:40,260
Please keep those calls coming in.

1108
00:51:40,260 --> 00:51:44,260
Now, let's talk about Patriot 2 and scare some people.

1109
00:51:44,260 --> 00:51:45,260
Oh, boy.

1110
00:51:45,260 --> 00:51:46,260
Well, we all know about the Patriot Act,

1111
00:51:46,260 --> 00:51:49,260
which is something that was created after 9-11

1112
00:51:49,260 --> 00:51:51,260
to supposedly enhance security in this country

1113
00:51:51,260 --> 00:51:53,260
against terrorism.

1114
00:51:53,260 --> 00:51:54,260
I have to interrupt you here.

1115
00:51:54,260 --> 00:51:55,260
I'm sorry.

1116
00:51:55,260 --> 00:51:57,260
If you read some of the Patriot Act,

1117
00:51:57,260 --> 00:52:01,260
you realize that this stuff was written before 9-11

1118
00:52:01,260 --> 00:52:04,260
and then pushed through immediately after 9-11.

1119
00:52:04,260 --> 00:52:05,260
How do you realize this?

1120
00:52:05,260 --> 00:52:10,260
Well, I mean, it's because some of the wording in this,

1121
00:52:10,260 --> 00:52:12,260
if you look back,

1122
00:52:12,260 --> 00:52:15,260
there's a huge volume of law that was passed

1123
00:52:15,260 --> 00:52:17,260
for the original Patriot Act,

1124
00:52:17,260 --> 00:52:19,260
and there's no way they would have written all this

1125
00:52:19,260 --> 00:52:22,260
and gotten all their I's dotted and T's crossed

1126
00:52:22,260 --> 00:52:24,260
in that short amount of time,

1127
00:52:24,260 --> 00:52:28,260
and it bore a lot of resemblance to previous legislation

1128
00:52:28,260 --> 00:52:30,260
that they tried to enact

1129
00:52:30,260 --> 00:52:33,260
and then it didn't get through or whatever.

1130
00:52:33,260 --> 00:52:34,260
It got held up in committee.

1131
00:52:34,260 --> 00:52:36,260
So this is a body of legislation,

1132
00:52:36,260 --> 00:52:39,260
much of which was just waiting for a good opportunity,

1133
00:52:39,260 --> 00:52:42,260
and 9-11 was that opportunity.

1134
00:52:42,260 --> 00:52:43,260
Six calls on the line.

1135
00:52:43,260 --> 00:52:45,260
212-209-2950.

1136
00:52:45,260 --> 00:52:49,260
It only takes a few more people pledging 125 for the sweatshirt

1137
00:52:49,260 --> 00:52:52,260
to bring us over our goal here.

1138
00:52:52,260 --> 00:52:53,260
212-209-2950.

1139
00:52:53,260 --> 00:52:55,260
Please keep those calls coming in.

1140
00:52:55,260 --> 00:52:57,260
Now let's talk some more about Patriot 2 here.

1141
00:52:57,260 --> 00:52:59,260
I have a comment.

1142
00:52:59,260 --> 00:53:03,260
It's kind of interesting that Patriot 2,

1143
00:53:03,260 --> 00:53:05,260
in case people didn't know how grand juries work,

1144
00:53:05,260 --> 00:53:11,260
usually the secrecy rules only applied to the grand jurors,

1145
00:53:11,260 --> 00:53:15,260
and I believe to the grand juries and to the attorneys,

1146
00:53:15,260 --> 00:53:18,260
and now I think it applies now to the witnesses.

1147
00:53:18,260 --> 00:53:23,260
So if you're called to testify or subpoenaed to the grand jury,

1148
00:53:23,260 --> 00:53:28,260
I think the Patriot Act would essentially make it,

1149
00:53:28,260 --> 00:53:30,260
it will bind you to keep that information secret.

1150
00:53:30,260 --> 00:53:32,260
For all time.

1151
00:53:32,260 --> 00:53:33,260
That's really something.

1152
00:53:33,260 --> 00:53:35,260
Okay, Sarif, now we're running out of time,

1153
00:53:35,260 --> 00:53:36,260
so you better hurry up.

1154
00:53:36,260 --> 00:53:37,260
All right.

1155
00:53:37,260 --> 00:53:39,260
Well, you know, one of the good things about the Patriot Act

1156
00:53:39,260 --> 00:53:41,260
was that it had a sundown provision,

1157
00:53:41,260 --> 00:53:45,260
which means that after five years the Patriot Act would be no more.

1158
00:53:45,260 --> 00:53:47,260
Patriot 2, which they're calling it,

1159
00:53:47,260 --> 00:53:51,260
the real name of it is the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003,

1160
00:53:51,260 --> 00:53:54,260
is something that doesn't have a sundown period.

1161
00:53:54,260 --> 00:53:59,260
It's something that will extend many of the provisions

1162
00:53:59,260 --> 00:54:02,260
of the original Patriot Act, both in concept but also in time.

1163
00:54:02,260 --> 00:54:06,260
These are not things that will magically go away after a certain period.

1164
00:54:06,260 --> 00:54:09,260
Are they extending it for another limited amount of time or forever?

1165
00:54:09,260 --> 00:54:13,260
Well, you know, this whole thing was released not by the government,

1166
00:54:13,260 --> 00:54:16,260
but it was leaked, and on every page of it,

1167
00:54:16,260 --> 00:54:19,260
it says that it's confidential and that it's not for release.

1168
00:54:19,260 --> 00:54:22,260
And the bits of it that have actually been proposed,

1169
00:54:22,260 --> 00:54:26,260
I should mention that this hasn't been proposed as a bill, really, on its own.

1170
00:54:26,260 --> 00:54:30,260
Little bits of it have been inserted as riders into other bills.

1171
00:54:30,260 --> 00:54:34,260
And I don't know whether we'll eventually see the whole thing presented as a bill

1172
00:54:34,260 --> 00:54:37,260
or whether it will just kind of be passed piecemeal,

1173
00:54:37,260 --> 00:54:39,260
which would make it much harder to oppose.

1174
00:54:39,260 --> 00:54:43,260
But I'll just do a quick rundown of some of the concepts here.

1175
00:54:43,260 --> 00:54:47,260
Yeah, give us the highlights. Eight calls on the line, 212-209-2950.

1176
00:54:47,260 --> 00:54:51,260
Section 201 says that it will be a criminal act

1177
00:54:51,260 --> 00:54:54,260
to release information about the whereabouts of a prisoner

1178
00:54:54,260 --> 00:54:56,260
once they are incarcerated.

1179
00:54:56,260 --> 00:54:59,260
Well, that would affect both Bernie and Kevin there.

1180
00:54:59,260 --> 00:55:02,260
We wouldn't be able to tell people where you were.

1181
00:55:02,260 --> 00:55:04,260
What do you think about that?

1182
00:55:04,260 --> 00:55:05,260
That's kind of scary.

1183
00:55:05,260 --> 00:55:06,260
Yeah.

1184
00:55:06,260 --> 00:55:09,260
That would have made a big difference in my situation and Kevin's

1185
00:55:09,260 --> 00:55:11,260
and hundreds of thousands of other people, too.

1186
00:55:11,260 --> 00:55:15,260
If you can not only lock people up but keep their location secret,

1187
00:55:15,260 --> 00:55:19,260
how can people who are opposed to their imprisonment

1188
00:55:19,260 --> 00:55:21,260
call the appropriate officials and say,

1189
00:55:21,260 --> 00:55:23,260
hey, you should really let this guy out?

1190
00:55:23,260 --> 00:55:28,260
Now, is this just any prisoner or so-called terrorist prisoners?

1191
00:55:28,260 --> 00:55:32,260
I believe it's, well, they say detainees,

1192
00:55:32,260 --> 00:55:36,260
so this may apply to people who are so-called foreign combatants.

1193
00:55:36,260 --> 00:55:40,260
But another part of Patriot 2 is that the definition of a foreign combatant

1194
00:55:40,260 --> 00:55:43,260
is going to be expanded.

1195
00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:44,260
Oh, really?

1196
00:55:44,260 --> 00:55:48,260
And it's going to be expanded to citizens who may have violated

1197
00:55:48,260 --> 00:55:53,260
any provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act,

1198
00:55:53,260 --> 00:55:58,260
which means engaging in all sorts of activities

1199
00:55:58,260 --> 00:56:04,260
which could be really some things that nobody would think of terrorism at all.

1200
00:56:04,260 --> 00:56:07,260
You know, vandalism or really almost anything

1201
00:56:07,260 --> 00:56:09,260
could make you a foreign combatant under Patriot 2.

1202
00:56:09,260 --> 00:56:10,260
Hacking, if I recall.

1203
00:56:10,260 --> 00:56:12,260
Hacking could definitely qualify.

1204
00:56:12,260 --> 00:56:14,260
I think hacking would be included there.

1205
00:56:14,260 --> 00:56:15,260
Not the cost.

1206
00:56:15,260 --> 00:56:16,260
That's pretty scary.

1207
00:56:16,260 --> 00:56:22,260
How does the Patriot 2 reduce judicial review?

1208
00:56:22,260 --> 00:56:26,260
I mean, are there surveillance powers expanded

1209
00:56:26,260 --> 00:56:31,260
without actually having a judge intervene,

1210
00:56:31,260 --> 00:56:33,260
or is there a burden of proof?

1211
00:56:33,260 --> 00:56:37,260
They encourage in Patriot 2 various business entities

1212
00:56:37,260 --> 00:56:39,260
to do things currently prohibited,

1213
00:56:39,260 --> 00:56:46,260
but which would be essentially the equivalent of the government

1214
00:56:46,260 --> 00:56:50,260
not surveilling but compiling information.

1215
00:56:50,260 --> 00:56:52,260
In other words, rather than let the government do it,

1216
00:56:52,260 --> 00:56:54,260
which would be blatantly illegal,

1217
00:56:54,260 --> 00:56:57,260
they're encouraging businesses to do it and then report it.

1218
00:56:57,260 --> 00:57:01,260
Also in Section 201, according to some other websites,

1219
00:57:01,260 --> 00:57:04,260
it also states that law enforcement does not even have to tell the press

1220
00:57:04,260 --> 00:57:07,260
who they have arrested, and they never have to release the names.

1221
00:57:07,260 --> 00:57:09,260
Secret arrests people.

1222
00:57:09,260 --> 00:57:10,260
Unbelievable.

1223
00:57:10,260 --> 00:57:14,260
Now, Section 301 and 306, Terrorist Identification Database,

1224
00:57:14,260 --> 00:57:17,260
set up a national database of suspected terrorists

1225
00:57:17,260 --> 00:57:19,260
and radically expands the database

1226
00:57:19,260 --> 00:57:22,260
to include anyone associated with suspected terrorist groups

1227
00:57:22,260 --> 00:57:24,260
and anyone involved in crimes

1228
00:57:24,260 --> 00:57:27,260
or having supported any group designated as terrorist.

1229
00:57:27,260 --> 00:57:30,260
These sections also set up a national DNA database

1230
00:57:30,260 --> 00:57:32,260
for anyone on probation

1231
00:57:32,260 --> 00:57:35,260
or who has been on probation for any crime

1232
00:57:35,260 --> 00:57:37,260
and orders state governments to collect the DNA

1233
00:57:37,260 --> 00:57:39,260
for the federal government.

1234
00:57:39,260 --> 00:57:40,260
What do you think about that, guys?

1235
00:57:40,260 --> 00:57:41,260
For any crime?

1236
00:57:41,260 --> 00:57:42,260
Any crime.

1237
00:57:42,260 --> 00:57:44,260
How about returning a library book late?

1238
00:57:44,260 --> 00:57:46,260
Bernie, it's really for your own good

1239
00:57:46,260 --> 00:57:48,260
because you could be exonerated from a crime

1240
00:57:48,260 --> 00:57:50,260
that you're accused of but didn't commit.

1241
00:57:50,260 --> 00:57:54,260
Well, as a current felon, I'm kind of upset

1242
00:57:54,260 --> 00:57:59,260
because I could imagine somebody spitting on the street

1243
00:57:59,260 --> 00:58:01,260
after being at a demonstration,

1244
00:58:01,260 --> 00:58:03,260
cop comes over, picks up the gob of goo,

1245
00:58:03,260 --> 00:58:06,260
and heaven knows where that might be introduced.

1246
00:58:06,260 --> 00:58:08,260
I mean, there was a state trooper in the Midwest

1247
00:58:08,260 --> 00:58:10,260
a couple years ago who was...

1248
00:58:10,260 --> 00:58:12,260
No, New York. I'm terribly sorry.

1249
00:58:13,260 --> 00:58:16,260
He took Scotch tape and took fingerprints

1250
00:58:16,260 --> 00:58:20,260
from the files in the police records

1251
00:58:20,260 --> 00:58:22,260
and put it on crime scenes

1252
00:58:22,260 --> 00:58:25,260
and had guys who had committed a crime 10, 15 years ago

1253
00:58:25,260 --> 00:58:26,260
incarcerated again.

1254
00:58:26,260 --> 00:58:28,260
Ooh, they've gone back to burglary.

1255
00:58:28,260 --> 00:58:29,260
No, they hadn't.

1256
00:58:29,260 --> 00:58:31,260
This trooper wanted to close some cases.

1257
00:58:31,260 --> 00:58:33,260
You know, what's interesting is

1258
00:58:33,260 --> 00:58:35,260
about a year, year and a half ago

1259
00:58:35,260 --> 00:58:37,260
I did an interview for Yahoo Internet Life Magazine,

1260
00:58:37,260 --> 00:58:39,260
which is now defunct,

1261
00:58:39,260 --> 00:58:40,260
and one of the predictions I had

1262
00:58:40,260 --> 00:58:42,260
was that the government would create

1263
00:58:42,260 --> 00:58:45,260
a federal DNA database to keep track of us,

1264
00:58:45,260 --> 00:58:48,260
and of course I was misquoted by the reporter,

1265
00:58:48,260 --> 00:58:51,260
and the misquote was that I recommended

1266
00:58:51,260 --> 00:58:53,260
that the government do this,

1267
00:58:53,260 --> 00:58:54,260
which is certainly, you know,

1268
00:58:54,260 --> 00:58:57,260
if anybody knows about me would certainly know

1269
00:58:57,260 --> 00:58:59,260
that I would never recommend such a measure,

1270
00:58:59,260 --> 00:59:01,260
but now it seems to be happening.

1271
00:59:01,260 --> 00:59:03,260
I guess I'm a little bit of a prophet.

1272
00:59:03,260 --> 00:59:05,260
212-209-2950 is our phone number.

1273
00:59:05,260 --> 00:59:07,260
Please keep those calls coming in.

1274
00:59:07,260 --> 00:59:09,260
Now, Section 102.

1275
00:59:09,260 --> 00:59:11,260
Sarif, do you have Section 102 there?

1276
00:59:11,260 --> 00:59:13,260
That's a really scary one for me anyway.

1277
00:59:13,260 --> 00:59:15,260
This is really the scariest of all,

1278
00:59:15,260 --> 00:59:17,260
and this should convince people

1279
00:59:17,260 --> 00:59:19,260
of just how important it is really

1280
00:59:19,260 --> 00:59:21,260
to keep WBAI going

1281
00:59:21,260 --> 00:59:24,260
and other free media outlets such as ours.

1282
00:59:24,260 --> 00:59:27,260
Section 102 states that any information gathering,

1283
00:59:27,260 --> 00:59:30,260
regardless of whether those activities are illegal

1284
00:59:30,260 --> 00:59:32,260
under any other statute,

1285
00:59:32,260 --> 00:59:34,260
could be construed as

1286
00:59:34,260 --> 00:59:36,260
clandestine intelligence activities

1287
00:59:36,260 --> 00:59:38,260
for a foreign power.

1288
00:59:38,260 --> 00:59:40,260
And if you can read between the lines

1289
00:59:40,260 --> 00:59:41,260
just oh so slightly here,

1290
00:59:41,260 --> 00:59:43,260
this makes news gathering illegal.

1291
00:59:43,260 --> 00:59:44,260
Totally.

1292
00:59:44,260 --> 00:59:45,260
Total media control.

1293
00:59:45,260 --> 00:59:46,260
And, you know, it's basically,

1294
00:59:46,260 --> 00:59:48,260
it goes along the same lines as people that say,

1295
00:59:48,260 --> 00:59:50,260
oh, having a peace demonstration is, you know,

1296
00:59:50,260 --> 00:59:51,260
is helpful.

1297
00:59:51,260 --> 00:59:53,260
You know, you're working for, you know,

1298
00:59:53,260 --> 00:59:54,260
the enemy when you do that.

1299
00:59:54,260 --> 00:59:56,260
Well, yeah, gathering information can be,

1300
00:59:56,260 --> 00:59:58,260
can be helpful to the enemy as well,

1301
00:59:58,260 --> 01:00:00,260
and something that, you know,

1302
01:00:00,260 --> 01:00:02,260
it's a really slippery slope,

1303
01:00:03,260 --> 01:00:05,260
and something that scares me to death.

1304
01:00:05,260 --> 01:00:07,260
It really does.

1305
01:00:07,260 --> 01:00:08,260
How about this?

1306
01:00:08,260 --> 01:00:09,260
Section 106.

1307
01:00:09,260 --> 01:00:11,260
This states that broad general warrants

1308
01:00:11,260 --> 01:00:13,260
by the secret FSIA court,

1309
01:00:13,260 --> 01:00:15,260
which is a panel of secret judges

1310
01:00:15,260 --> 01:00:16,260
set up in a star chamber system

1311
01:00:16,260 --> 01:00:19,260
that convenes in an undisclosed location,

1312
01:00:19,260 --> 01:00:21,260
that was granted under the first Patriot Act,

1313
01:00:21,260 --> 01:00:23,260
but now they're saying that's not good enough.

1314
01:00:23,260 --> 01:00:25,260
This states that government agents

1315
01:00:25,260 --> 01:00:27,260
must be given immunity for carrying out searches

1316
01:00:27,260 --> 01:00:29,260
with no prior court approval.

1317
01:00:29,260 --> 01:00:31,260
This section basically throws out

1318
01:00:31,260 --> 01:00:32,260
the entire Fourth Amendment

1319
01:00:32,260 --> 01:00:36,260
against unreasonable searches and seizures.

1320
01:00:36,260 --> 01:00:37,260
Unbelievable.

1321
01:00:37,260 --> 01:00:38,260
Also, Section 109,

1322
01:00:38,260 --> 01:00:40,260
it allows secret star chamber courts

1323
01:00:40,260 --> 01:00:42,260
to issue contempt charges

1324
01:00:42,260 --> 01:00:44,260
against any individual or corporation

1325
01:00:44,260 --> 01:00:47,260
who refuses to incriminate themselves or others,

1326
01:00:47,260 --> 01:00:49,260
and that annihilates the last vestiges

1327
01:00:49,260 --> 01:00:51,260
of the Fifth Amendment.

1328
01:00:51,260 --> 01:00:52,260
Emmanuel, I mean,

1329
01:00:52,260 --> 01:00:55,260
search and seizure law is so watered down

1330
01:00:55,260 --> 01:00:58,260
because even if they do an illegal search,

1331
01:00:59,260 --> 01:01:03,260
if the prosecutors could, I guess,

1332
01:01:03,260 --> 01:01:05,260
represent to a court

1333
01:01:05,260 --> 01:01:07,260
probably the preponderance of the evidence

1334
01:01:07,260 --> 01:01:09,260
that the officer was acting in good faith,

1335
01:01:09,260 --> 01:01:12,260
the search is upheld even though it's illegal.

1336
01:01:12,260 --> 01:01:14,260
We're getting a lot of this information

1337
01:01:14,260 --> 01:01:16,260
from Infowars.com, by the way,

1338
01:01:16,260 --> 01:01:18,260
so if people want to look at that a little bit more

1339
01:01:18,260 --> 01:01:20,260
and find out some more information about this,

1340
01:01:20,260 --> 01:01:21,260
it's a good place to go.

1341
01:01:21,260 --> 01:01:24,260
Another good site is ReclaimDemocracy.org,

1342
01:01:24,260 --> 01:01:26,260
and I'd just like to mention that

1343
01:01:26,260 --> 01:01:29,260
besides helping to keep WBAI on the air

1344
01:01:29,260 --> 01:01:31,260
so that we can keep talking about this stuff

1345
01:01:31,260 --> 01:01:33,260
and educating people about it,

1346
01:01:33,260 --> 01:01:34,260
call your representatives

1347
01:01:34,260 --> 01:01:36,260
and tell them that you're concerned about this.

1348
01:01:36,260 --> 01:01:38,260
Many of them potentially haven't even heard of it

1349
01:01:38,260 --> 01:01:41,260
or don't have a copy of this.

1350
01:01:41,260 --> 01:01:44,260
You can call them up, though,

1351
01:01:44,260 --> 01:01:46,260
and tell them that you're concerned about

1352
01:01:46,260 --> 01:01:49,260
the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003,

1353
01:01:49,260 --> 01:01:51,260
and you can reach your representatives

1354
01:01:51,260 --> 01:01:55,260
by calling 1-800-839-5276.

1355
01:01:55,260 --> 01:01:58,260
But call us first, 212-209-2950,

1356
01:01:58,260 --> 01:02:00,260
because this is the place you're going to hear about this.

1357
01:02:00,260 --> 01:02:01,260
It's pretty shocking.

1358
01:02:01,260 --> 01:02:03,260
Are you shocked? I'm shocked.

1359
01:02:03,260 --> 01:02:05,260
You haven't been hearing this on commercial TV

1360
01:02:05,260 --> 01:02:06,260
or commercial radio, have you?

1361
01:02:06,260 --> 01:02:08,260
No, you've been hearing the same old music and crap

1362
01:02:08,260 --> 01:02:10,260
and TV shows and Joe Millionaire

1363
01:02:10,260 --> 01:02:12,260
and all that kind of garbage out there.

1364
01:02:12,260 --> 01:02:13,260
That's what you've been hearing.

1365
01:02:13,260 --> 01:02:14,260
That's what you've been seeing.

1366
01:02:14,260 --> 01:02:15,260
That's what the priority is.

1367
01:02:15,260 --> 01:02:17,260
So if that's what you agree with,

1368
01:02:17,260 --> 01:02:18,260
if that's what you want to see,

1369
01:02:18,260 --> 01:02:20,260
then give us a call.

1370
01:02:20,260 --> 01:02:21,260
Don't give us a call.

1371
01:02:21,260 --> 01:02:24,260
Turn on your TV or watch something commercial in nature.

1372
01:02:24,260 --> 01:02:26,260
But if you think that this information

1373
01:02:26,260 --> 01:02:28,260
is something that might be a little bit relevant,

1374
01:02:28,260 --> 01:02:30,260
we're talking about things that are creating

1375
01:02:30,260 --> 01:02:32,260
lifetime parole, which is basically slavery

1376
01:02:32,260 --> 01:02:34,260
for all kinds of crimes.

1377
01:02:34,260 --> 01:02:36,260
We're talking about making it a crime

1378
01:02:36,260 --> 01:02:38,260
for various criminals, in quotes,

1379
01:02:38,260 --> 01:02:40,260
to use encryption.

1380
01:02:40,260 --> 01:02:42,260
We're talking about all kinds of things.

1381
01:02:42,260 --> 01:02:43,260
This is what Patriot 2 is.

1382
01:02:43,260 --> 01:02:44,260
This is what the future holds for us.

1383
01:02:44,260 --> 01:02:46,260
212-209-2950.

1384
01:02:46,260 --> 01:02:48,260
We're in the last two minutes of the show.

1385
01:02:48,260 --> 01:02:50,260
We need to get a bunch of calls here.

1386
01:02:50,260 --> 01:02:52,260
212-209-2950.

1387
01:02:53,260 --> 01:02:56,260
Calling your congressional representatives will help

1388
01:02:56,260 --> 01:02:59,260
because Congress denied funding

1389
01:02:59,260 --> 01:03:01,260
to Total Information Awareness.

1390
01:03:01,260 --> 01:03:03,260
That's the IAO.

1391
01:03:03,260 --> 01:03:05,260
That's the part of DARPA that was going to set up

1392
01:03:05,260 --> 01:03:08,260
the national database of everybody's information.

1393
01:03:08,260 --> 01:03:10,260
And Congress denied...

1394
01:03:10,260 --> 01:03:12,260
Well, last thing I heard was Congress denied them funding

1395
01:03:12,260 --> 01:03:14,260
once they fanned out about it.

1396
01:03:14,260 --> 01:03:17,260
So by calling out your local representatives,

1397
01:03:17,260 --> 01:03:20,260
you can actually affect the...

1398
01:03:21,260 --> 01:03:23,260
212-209-2950 is our phone number,

1399
01:03:23,260 --> 01:03:25,260
and we are in the last minute here.

1400
01:03:25,260 --> 01:03:27,260
So please, let's get a flurry of calls.

1401
01:03:27,260 --> 01:03:29,260
We have three calls on the line.

1402
01:03:29,260 --> 01:03:31,260
There's all these lonely volunteers back there.

1403
01:03:31,260 --> 01:03:32,260
They really want to talk to someone.

1404
01:03:32,260 --> 01:03:34,260
They're really sad and lonely,

1405
01:03:34,260 --> 01:03:38,260
and we need to have them be as busy as possible.

1406
01:03:38,260 --> 01:03:40,260
So please give us a call.

1407
01:03:40,260 --> 01:03:41,260
We're signing out of here.

1408
01:03:41,260 --> 01:03:43,260
We won't be here next week.

1409
01:03:43,260 --> 01:03:44,260
The 9 o'clock program's here?

1410
01:03:44,260 --> 01:03:45,260
Great, okay.

1411
01:03:45,260 --> 01:03:46,260
We've got to go.

1412
01:03:46,260 --> 01:03:48,260
So please keep those calls coming in

1413
01:03:48,260 --> 01:03:50,260
until we actually get out of here,

1414
01:03:50,260 --> 01:03:52,260
and we'll see you in two weeks.

1415
01:03:52,260 --> 01:03:55,260
Thanks, everybody, for calling 212-209-2950.

1416
01:03:55,260 --> 01:03:56,260
Stay free.

1417
01:03:56,260 --> 01:03:59,260
bass, drums, & keyboard play rock

1418
01:03:59,260 --> 01:04:04,260
Well, well, well, well, yeah

1419
01:04:04,260 --> 01:04:08,260
Oh, yeah

1420
01:04:08,260 --> 01:04:14,260
Trouble is all over town, yeah

1421
01:04:14,260 --> 01:04:18,260
It's beluding and shooting and killing

1422
01:04:18,260 --> 01:04:21,260
And burning out, them burning out

1423
01:04:22,260 --> 01:04:28,260
Trouble is all over my hometown, yeah

1424
01:04:28,260 --> 01:04:32,260
It's beluding and shooting and killing

1425
01:04:32,260 --> 01:04:35,260
And burning out, them burning out

1426
01:04:35,260 --> 01:04:39,260
But where do I stand?

1427
01:04:39,260 --> 01:04:43,260
bass, drums, & keyboard play rock

1428
01:04:43,260 --> 01:04:47,260
In this era of danger, spin, and blather,

1429
01:04:47,260 --> 01:04:49,260
independent voices on the airwaves are more...