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Pacifica Station KPFA in Berkeley. Josh Chaffin is our DC editor at Pacifica Station WPFW.

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Web support from Vanessa Tate and Leslie Holmes. You can visit FSRN online at www.fsrn.org.

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I'm Deepa Fernandes.

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In this era of danger, spin, and blather, independent voices on the airwaves are more

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valuable than ever. And beginning on Wednesday, February 12th, WBAI Radio will be seeking

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your support in our winter fun drive. Join us as we celebrate Black History Month and

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celebrate the vast array of local and national programming available on this air, even as

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we keep an eye on the powers that be. Join us in the tally room to take pledges from

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your fellow listeners and meet the staff. To arrange a volunteer shift, please call

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Pauline at 212-209-2827. That's 212-209-2827. Join us as a member and support WBAI in this

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most crucial of days.

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It's 7-0-1. Time for Off The Hook.

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And a very good evening to everybody. The program is Off The Hook. Emmanuel Goldstein

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here. Back in the studio after a prolonged absence. And Jeff, I want to thank you personally

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for filling in and making sure things go as crazy as they usually go.

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It was my pleasure. I couldn't think of a better way to start the year off.

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Yeah, yeah. And here we are in mid-February, so it's a good time after the start of the

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new year. I guess, you know, the theme is new beginnings because there are so many new

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beginnings in the air around here, around the country, around the world. And it's kind

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of inspiring. And I hope that's what we bring out in people tonight is inspiration. Hopefully

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that'll translate into some fundraising as well because that's also why we're here tonight.

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In an extended program, we're going from 7 o'clock until 9 o'clock tonight. A special

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edition of Off The Hook. And I want to welcome everybody else in the studio as well. I'll

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say hello. Hello. Hello. All right, everybody's there. That's good. It's good to know the

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mics are working. Okay, how many of you went to the demonstration on Saturday?

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I mean me. You went. Okay, Seraf, you were there. Mike,

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I assume you were there. I was there.

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Yeah, you were at the IMC, too, working on their website.

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I was all kinds of places. Yeah, you split in two at one point, too.

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That was something to behold. How did I do that?

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I don't know how you did that. I was hoping you'd know. But you were in two places at

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once. And, well, it was quite an accomplishment, and you got a lot done as both people. Jeff,

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were you at the demonstration? No, I had work to finish up before I came

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into the city, but I did make it in that night. And as I came in to the Port Authority, everyone

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was leaving with their signs. Yeah, you went to the Toy Fair.

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This was a, yes. Which is an extension of the demonstration,

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really, when you think about it. What better way than through toys to bring peace to the

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world? Exactly.

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Yeah, so you're fighting the fight in your own way.

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And it was fun to get stranded in the city for an extra day.

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Well, because of the snow, yes. We had lots of snow as well. And for people archiving

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this in the future, we had one of the biggest snowfalls ever. I think the fourth largest

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in the city. Yes.

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Which, you know, I think it's great. I'm all in favor of it. But, you know, it's not that

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big a deal. You know, after one day, everybody got out of it, and people were walking around.

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There was no problem. Everything was open. All the streets were passable. So, you know,

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I don't think it calls for 24-hour news bulletins and things like that. I don't think we did

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that here on WBAI. I think we pretty much said, hey, folks, it's snowing outside, you

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know, and that's it. Let's get on with our programming.

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And I was at the Javits Center every day. We didn't stop it. It was still open.

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Could you get out of the Javits Center, or were you stranded in the Javits Center?

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No, no, no, no, no. No, we were in and out.

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But you were stranded in New York City, right?

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Well, if you want to call it stranded, I was staying with friends. So it was a good stranded.

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Oh, would they have called it stranded, or no? Jim, yes.

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I just want to say that a local newscaster, a guy by the name of Christopher Jones on

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Fox News made a great point, which is relevant. Before the snow, everybody's worried about

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duct tape and plastic. Snow comes, and we're getting back to the business of normal life.

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Snow, bread and milk, salt, shovels, the whole bit.

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I don't understand this whole duct tape business. And for those of you who are just waking up

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out of comas and things like that, I think Tom Ridge really regrets what he said as far

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as telling people to go out and get duct tape to prepare themselves against terrorists.

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First of all, I don't know what duct tape is going to do. I guess you can seal your

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windows or something like that. That's the theory.

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But he actually had to go on TV and tell people, please, don't seal your windows now.

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Don't buy too much duct tape. This is for the future. It's not for now.

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It's really, the whole thing is very, very silly.

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Well, just to be serious and technical and quick, there are things wrong with this idea in general.

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Duct tape is supposed to prevent noxious substances seeping in.

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Number one, they're going to seep in through cracks in your door and cracks in your wall anyway.

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Well, if you put duct tape over everything, though, then...

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Why don't you just get an inflatable tent or something or an environmental hazard suit

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or your scuba suit or whatever.

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Well, imagine an apartment completely covered with duct tape. You don't have to paint it.

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You don't have to maintain it. It's just, you know, it's safe.

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I think it's something we should look into.

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You won't be able to breathe either.

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Yes.

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I was going to say that you'd suffocate.

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Well, suffocation is preferable to being, you know, terrorized by terrorists, don't you think?

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Well, I mean...

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If that's the sacrifice we have to make...

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Let's experiment. You suffocate. I'll be terrorized.

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Well, okay. I'll consider that.

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I thought the duct, the plastic and duct tape, we put the bag over your head,

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wrap the tape around your neck, and that would solve the problems.

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That works.

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Well, there are some people I could suggest that for.

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But, you know, there was a report on CNN.

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I love watching these things because they're so funny.

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They were talking about... I think it was on the Talkback Live show.

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They were talking about the duct tape panic,

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and they were doing this whole feature on depleting supplies of duct tape in stores.

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And they showed a shelf in a major store that had many different labels for duct tape, you know.

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And they were all, sure enough, empty.

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The thing that they missed, the thing that everybody missed,

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was the fact that all the labels for duct tape were spelled D-U-C-K in the store,

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which just points out how illiterate everybody is out there, you know, stocking these shelves.

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They actually call it duct tape, as if you're taping a duck or something.

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There's actually a trademarked brand of duct with a T tape called duct with a K tape.

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Oh, really? Maybe that was... I don't think so.

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No, I don't think they make that many different varieties. They're competitors.

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We should tell the people that the color is orange, in case anyone has been trapped in a cave.

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Oh, you mean the alert color?

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The color is orange.

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Now, that happened since our last show, right?

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Right.

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Okay, so...

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We just want to keep people posted who rely on us for the color.

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We were being chastised by our listeners for not announcing it, but it happened after the show, so...

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No, no, no, no. It happened before our last show, and we did mention it.

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I don't think so.

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No?

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I don't think so.

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I have a strange feeling of discussing it.

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Well, that's because it happened once before.

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Okay.

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New York's orange, anyway.

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Yes.

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New York City was in orange alert since September.

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Okay, you know what?

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What?

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You just bought into the exact same thing everybody else is buying into, because they...

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All the news reports are saying New York has been in condition orange since September 11, 2001.

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They're all saying that.

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Now, there was no condition orange on September 11, 2001.

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When did they come up with the color scheme? They didn't do it that day.

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Good point.

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Yeah, but it's been rewritten into history.

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That's not what they're saying. They're saying 2001.

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They said September 10, 2002.

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Really?

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That's what they said.

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Well, that might be more accurate, but check the newspapers.

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That's about the date that they started.

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It was very close to the one-year anniversary.

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I've heard 2001 said many, many times.

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People misspeak.

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It's really annoying, but it's becoming fact, and that's why you have to be careful with how things are reported.

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Now, there's some new developments today.

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Speaking of new beginnings, this is kind of an interesting beginning.

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There's a new website out there, a new .gov site.

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Seraf, what's it called?

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What's it called?

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Are we ready?

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Yes.

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We have to be ready to get to this website.

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I'm ready. I'm ready.

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This computer here, is this computer actually hooked up?

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It should be.

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There have been a lot of changes since I came here last.

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This is actually hooked up to the Internet?

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Yeah.

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Wow, that's really cool.

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How long have we been trying to get this done?

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It's been done.

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Well, you weren't here.

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It's been done for at least two months or so.

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Two months.

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What, they put it in as soon as I left?

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That was the idea.

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Okay, well, so I can actually go to websites if I can figure out how to get out of this Windows operating system.

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To begin, click your username.

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I don't have a username.

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We have to hack into this now.

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One of the things on the right is the username.

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Uh-huh.

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One of the things on the right is the username?

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The column on the right contains the usernames.

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Yeah, okay, but it doesn't contain the passwords.

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One of them should be like, I think, a general one.

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I would assume because I don't have it.

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Okay, let me try that.

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Try the first one.

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Did you forget your password?

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You can click the question mark button to see your password hint.

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Okay, what's the password hint?

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I don't know what password hint.

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Okay, I'm going to try somebody else's password then.

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I can't believe I'm doing this on the air.

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Oh, okay, I think I know what this person's password is.

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No, no, that's wrong.

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Okay, I'm going to try this one over here.

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Oh, I got in somehow.

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I'm in something.

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All right, I don't know.

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I'm sorry, whoever I just hacked into.

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They have 38 new messages.

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Okay, well, you see, you know, if there was an account set up for me, I wouldn't have to do this.

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But since I just want to get into, I guess I have to open Explorer.

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Let's go to, what is it?

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What is it again?

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Ready.gov?

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Ready.gov.

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Ready.gov.

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Okay, and this is a site that actually was started today from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

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Terrorism forces us to make a choice.

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Don't be afraid.

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Be ready.

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Yes.

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I hear they have a telephone number too.

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You know what?

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You're right.

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In fact, let's get the phone together here.

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Hopefully they didn't change my password on the phone.

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Okay, and let's see if they're actually there.

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Okay, well, the phone's not dialing.

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Oh, there they are.

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These buttons are really, they've been under a lot of stress lately.

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The number we are dialing for listeners who want to follow along at home is 1-800-BE-READY.

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Well, don't tell them yet because they'll get their head in the way these buttons are going.

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Why don't you give them a number that they can call if they want to make some donations?

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Hang on.

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We have to hear what the person's saying.

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Sorry.

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Hello, this is Secretary Tom Ridge of the Department of Homeland Security.

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Tom, I can't believe you.

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Wait a minute.

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What happened to his voice?

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He hung up.

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Tom, what happened to Tom?

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Press 1.

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He comes back.

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Yeah, we want to hear it in American.

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Yeah, he comes back.

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You are calling from a rotary phone.

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Please hold.

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Just press 1.

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You may hear tips and receive your brochure.

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I want to talk to Tom again.

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Congratulations.

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Oh, here he is.

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You've taken an important step toward surviving in an emergency.

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Here at the Department of Homeland Security, we're working hard to prepare our nation,

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but each of us must be ready to make it on our own, at least for a period of time,

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no matter where we are when disaster strikes.

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Stay on the line to receive our free brochure with simple tips that could save your life,

238
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or go to www.ready.gov.

239
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You can do something to protect your family and yourself against the threat of terrorism,

240
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and the time to prepare is now.

241
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If you'd like to receive our free brochure, preparing makes sense.

242
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Get ready now.

243
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Press 1.

244
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If you'd like to learn more right away, go online to www.ready.gov,

245
00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,080
or press 2 for a few simple tips.

246
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I think 2.

247
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Yeah, 2.

248
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:04,080
I guess we can't get an operator.

249
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:05,080
Let's try an operator first.

250
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:06,080
We're sorry.

251
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,080
The number you entered is invalid.

252
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,080
Please try again.

253
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,080
If you'd like to receive our free brochure,

254
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,080
the fight against terror begins at home.

255
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:20,080
With a little planning and some common sense, you can be better prepared.

256
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The first step is to begin a process of learning about potential threats

257
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so you are able to react during an emergency.

258
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Be prepared to assess the situation

259
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and to use whatever you have on hand to take care of yourself and your loved ones.

260
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Now, depending on your circumstances and the nature of the attack,

261
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you might do better by staying put, or it might be better to get away.

262
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You should understand and plan for both possibilities.

263
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Think about fresh water, food, and clean air.

264
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:56,080
You will need a gallon of water per person per day and food that won't go bad.

265
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Keep basic emergency supplies like a radio, flashlight, extra batteries, and a first aid kit.

266
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Store heavyweight garbage bags and duct tape to seal windows, doors,

267
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and air vents from outside contamination.

268
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While there is no way to predict what will happen

269
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or what your personal circumstances will be, there are things you can do now.

270
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To learn more about how to get ready now, go online to www.ready.gov.

271
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Thank you for calling the Department of Homeland Security.

272
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,080
Terrorism forces us to make a choice.

273
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:35,080
We can be afraid, or we can be ready.

274
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,080
Wait, what's the choice?

275
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,080
Which should we be, afraid or ready?

276
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,080
I figure, hedge my bets, I am both afraid and ready.

277
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,080
Well, I'm ready to be afraid, but I'm afraid to be ready.

278
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,080
How's that for a slogan?

279
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,080
That's good, but I don't think you should be afraid to be ready.

280
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,080
Sometimes these little beeps turn into dial tones, you know.

281
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:54,080
Oh.

282
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:55,080
It does happen.

283
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,080
Let's wait.

284
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,080
I'm not saying that's what I'm waiting for, I'm just saying that's a fact.

285
00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:04,080
But that's a soothing sound, it's sort of the sound of our current administration, I think.

286
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:09,080
Isn't that the sound of the Russian phone melting in failsafe?

287
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,080
That is something else.

288
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,080
So the fight against terrorism begins at home, so we can't do anything here.

289
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,080
We have to go home first before we can do anything.

290
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,080
Or either that or we move in here.

291
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,080
No, I don't think that would be welcomed by anybody.

292
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,080
And press 1.

293
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:25,080
Ready.gov.

294
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,080
Well, if anybody finds anything interesting.

295
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,080
Has anyone looked over this site and found any...

296
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,080
There's all kinds of threats that you're supposed to be prepared against now.

297
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Biological threat, chemical threat, explosions, just general explosions.

298
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,080
Nuclear blast and radiation threat.

299
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,080
It's like we're back in the 1950s, you know.

300
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,080
I mean, the nuclear blast is not a dirty bomb.

301
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,080
That's a real nuclear bomb they're talking about now.

302
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,080
The arms race is back somehow.

303
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,080
Explosions is particularly good.

304
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,080
They basically tell you...

305
00:15:55,080 --> 00:16:00,080
There's something about if you're trapped in debris, if there's a fire, if there's an explosion.

306
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,080
But there is...

307
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:03,080
The one I was looking at before.

308
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,080
Yeah, if you're in a moving vehicle.

309
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:09,080
If there is an explosion or other factor that makes it difficult to control the vehicle,

310
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,080
pull over, stop the car, and set the parking brake.

311
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:13,080
And they spell brake wrong, too.

312
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,080
They spell B-R-E-A-K.

313
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,080
Which tells you how literate these people are.

314
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,080
How do you like that? I found a spelling error just by looking at it now.

315
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,080
Is there information on what to do if you're trampled by a horse?

316
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:25,080
No, there isn't.

317
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,080
But we'll get into that in a moment, because we have tips about that.

318
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,080
But my point is, if there's an explosion or other factor that makes it difficult to control the vehicle,

319
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:36,080
how do you pull over and stop the car and set the parking brake?

320
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,080
You have to steer into the explosion.

321
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,080
Always steer into the explosion.

322
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,080
It's classic.

323
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,080
There are so many ways to parody this.

324
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,080
We just don't know where to begin.

325
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:46,080
That's the problem.

326
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,080
That's the problem we're having now.

327
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,080
I was reading one section about duct taping yourself into your house.

328
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:57,080
And the justification they give for this is that terrorists may put junk into the air.

329
00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,080
Junk. Yeah, the junk.

330
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,080
Well, that's the times we're living in now.

331
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,080
It's really crazy. It really is.

332
00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:07,080
But back to the demonstration.

333
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,080
Yes, we were talking about being trampled by horses.

334
00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,080
A lot of that went on this weekend.

335
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,080
I don't know what your experience was, Mike.

336
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:22,080
I had some funny experiences myself, but I understand a lot of people were getting very frustrating and terrorizing experiences.

337
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:28,080
My worst experience was being lied to by a police officer, which I'll get over.

338
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,080
Was that the first time that ever happened?

339
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:31,080
No, no.

340
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:38,080
But other people were trampled by horses and beaten and other nasty things.

341
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,080
The crazy thing is, none of that was necessary.

342
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:41,080
Not that it ever is necessary.

343
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:49,080
But in this particular case, it would have been so incredibly easy to simply have the march like people wanted to do to First Avenue by the UN.

344
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,080
And there would have been so much less of a traffic tie-up.

345
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:59,080
But instead, they decided to deny the march and just somehow expect people to get to the rally without walking to it somehow.

346
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:00,080
I don't know what they were thinking.

347
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:07,080
When I came up, 51st Street and Lexington Avenue, the number six stop, was closed.

348
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,080
And that's obviously the most logical one to get off at.

349
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,080
So they just closed it off so everybody had to go to different stations.

350
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:18,080
And then when you were there, the police were keeping you from getting across Lexington Avenue and across Third Avenue.

351
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:24,080
And I mean, how frustrating is that when you can't even get to the place that everybody is rallying at?

352
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,080
It was extremely frustrating.

353
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:27,080
There was no reason to do it.

354
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,080
Now, the first time on Third Avenue, it was pretty simple.

355
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:39,080
The cops were blocking the street and a bunch of people just went into, I think it was a coffee house, and had a side door and just emerged right behind the cops that were blocking the street.

356
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,080
And they were none the wiser.

357
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,080
The second time, we had some help from a BAI listener, in fact.

358
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,080
I won't go into details so he doesn't get into trouble.

359
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,080
But he had the right kind of ID and led us through the police barricade.

360
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,080
And thanks very much to that person for helping out.

361
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,080
And we made it to the rally.

362
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:57,080
We made it to the rally.

363
00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,080
And there was so much space there.

364
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,080
They had wide open streets.

365
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,080
They were keeping people from filling the area.

366
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,080
And it was just completely unnecessary.

367
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:17,080
Well, just for theoretical purposes, as far as trampling defense against horses, the idea is to swarm the horse.

368
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,080
If the horse has no momentum and can't move, it can't trample you.

369
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:22,080
Poor horse.

370
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,080
Well, it's not the horse.

371
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,080
The horse is being told what to do.

372
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,080
The horse doesn't want to trample anybody, I'm sure.

373
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:35,080
But it's basically the horse's rider saying, OK, plow into the crowd now.

374
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:42,080
The crowd that I saw was completely non-violent and non-disruptive.

375
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,080
I don't think any Starbucks were attacked anyplace.

376
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:47,080
There was just no need for it.

377
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:53,080
Well, as I said earlier, I'm the type of guy who probably would believe in shooting most of the demonstrators.

378
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,080
But even I was appalled by the police tactics.

379
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,080
You're the kind of guy who would believe in shooting all the demonstrators?

380
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,080
Come on, I'm the token right-wing Republican here.

381
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,080
Give me a break.

382
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,080
Well, I don't think any right... I mean, there are right-wing Republicans at the demonstration.

383
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,080
That's the thing that bothers me, is how people view this as a leftist thing.

384
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,080
It's not. Everybody is...

385
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,080
Like I said a bunch of weeks ago, everybody hates John Ashcroft.

386
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,080
Doesn't matter if you're left or right.

387
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:17,080
Let me rephrase then.

388
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,080
Yeah, you might want to rephrase that a little bit.

389
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:24,080
Although I strongly disagreed with the tenor of the demonstration,

390
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,080
I think that the police were absurd and overreacted.

391
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,080
What was the tenor of the demonstration?

392
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:35,080
It's inadvertently giving aid and comfort to enemies of the United States,

393
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,080
to wit, Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi government.

394
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,080
Anytime we criticize our own president, we're giving aid to...

395
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,080
No, no, no. Indirectly.

396
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,080
Indirectly. But that's what I'm saying. Indirectly.

397
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:49,080
Anytime we criticize or go against the administration...

398
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,080
I mean, that argument can be used all the time.

399
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,080
And it has been used.

400
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:57,080
I mean, I've seen people in the government saying that, you know,

401
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,080
that people from Iraq are organizing these demonstrations...

402
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,080
I mean, it's actually like the communist threat from the 1950s all over again.

403
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,080
No, no, no. I'm saying there's a cogent argument against the administration's policies.

404
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:12,080
It's fine, but this is a rabid demonstration of which many...

405
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:18,080
I would say the majority of people there had no idea of any of the details involved in the Iraq situation.

406
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,080
Well, how many people do you think really know all the details in the Iraq situation?

407
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,080
That's a good point.

408
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,080
Yeah. I mean, you know, I'd like to know all the details.

409
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,080
In fact, that's part of what this whole thing is about, is trying to get more details.

410
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,080
Where is the evidence?

411
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:38,080
You know, we keep saying we're going to prove that Saddam Hussein was somehow connected to al-Qaeda and 9-11,

412
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,080
but, you know, the evidence was never even provided to link al-Qaeda to it.

413
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:46,080
There really wasn't... I mean, I believe there was some responsibility,

414
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,080
but the smoking gun was never produced, and it could have been, you know.

415
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,080
It could have been.

416
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:56,080
So this administration has been relying on, you know, keeping information from people,

417
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,080
and it really flies in the face of what people want.

418
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:04,080
People want information, they want disclosure, and I think that's what we're seeing here.

419
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,080
We're seeing a real, you know, a real conflict.

420
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,080
Well, I'm not going to debate this now, because this isn't the point I was trying to make.

421
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,080
The point I was trying to make was that I think the police got way carried away

422
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,080
violating people's right to free assembly and freedom of speech.

423
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,080
Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, they had orders to do this.

424
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:21,080
Well, obviously.

425
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,080
And that's where the real problem lies.

426
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,080
They were told, make sure people don't do this.

427
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,080
Things that people have rights to do.

428
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,080
Jeff is passing around a digital camera with a photograph on it.

429
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,080
Do you maybe want to describe what this is?

430
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,080
Hold it up to the microphone so our listeners can see.

431
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,080
Can our listeners see now?

432
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,080
Those are bobblehead dolls of...

433
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,080
Bobblehead dolls?

434
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,080
Bobblehead dolls of Bush, Cheney, and Ashcroft there.

435
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,080
Yeah, and this was at the demonstration, or was this at Toy Fair?

436
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,080
No, I'm sorry. It was at my demonstration.

437
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,080
Okay. Well, how about that?

438
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,080
Wow.

439
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,080
Well, you know, it was just really cool, because I got the feeling at the end of it all that,

440
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,080
first of all, I thought there were so much fewer people there.

441
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,080
I thought there was only like 30,000 people in the demonstration.

442
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,080
And in actuality, there was several hundred thousand people,

443
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:11,080
all spread throughout the various streets that they were allowed to go down.

444
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,080
And the reason why it seemed smaller was because everybody was being segregated

445
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,080
and kept apart from each other.

446
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,080
So it really had a demoralizing effect in many ways,

447
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,080
because people thought that there weren't as many people here as there really were.

448
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:28,080
And that's the kind of thing that, you know, I guess it's a tactic of some sort.

449
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:34,080
But the thing that I really found encouraging was the BAI presence there, you know.

450
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,080
And I don't know if you guys were there.

451
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,080
If you saw, a lot of people were wearing BAI signs, and everybody,

452
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,080
everybody was listening to the radio station, because we were broadcasting it live.

453
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:49,080
And this was like one of the coolest things I think I've ever seen the station be involved in,

454
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,080
because here we were covering a major news event in our city

455
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,080
that nobody else was covering, at least not to that extent.

456
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,080
And the people in the crowd knew about it.

457
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,080
They knew to tune to this station.

458
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,080
They knew to listen.

459
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,080
They knew this was where they could get reliable information

460
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,080
and the facts as to where things were taking place.

461
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,080
And I think it was a really, a proud day for us.

462
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:16,080
And I'm very happy to have been part of this place throughout the years.

463
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,080
So that's the kind of thing that I think we need to be doing more of in the future,

464
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,080
is covering things like this.

465
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,080
I heard two things that I can't confirm,

466
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:32,080
but I heard that the police set up barricades like at 9 a.m. before the protests started.

467
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,080
Well, they probably set up barricades at 4 a.m.

468
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,080
I mean, they're known to do that.

469
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,080
Plus, I heard there were sharpshooters on the buildings.

470
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,080
It's kind of weird, because if it's a protest, which is a major crowd,

471
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,080
what are they going to shoot?

472
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,080
I don't know. I don't know.

473
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,080
Well, they were carrying Geiger counters as well, whatever that was for.

474
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:56,080
I mean, that's more understandable than shooting a single bullet at somebody.

475
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,080
Well, they were obviously afraid of terrorism happening inside the crowd.

476
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:00,080
Yeah.

477
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:05,080
Look, if we're on the side of the terrorists, as they like to say,

478
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,080
if we're aiding and abetting them, why would the terrorists attack us?

479
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,080
It flies in the face with their own logic.

480
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,080
It doesn't really make any sense, and I think it's absurd, the whole notion.

481
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:20,080
Basically, I think it's absurd, the whole notion that you need to get a permit to march in the first place.

482
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,080
If people want to demonstrate about something, they should just demonstrate about it,

483
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,080
and that's part of freedom of speech.

484
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,080
And yeah, okay, you might mess up traffic a little bit.

485
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,080
That's the way it goes sometimes.

486
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,080
You live with this. It's like a snowstorm.

487
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,080
Which, by the way, the snowstorm cost more to the city than the demonstration.

488
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:38,080
$20 million?

489
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,080
Yeah.

490
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,080
And it got better coverage, literally and figuratively.

491
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,080
It sure did. Think about that.

492
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,080
The snowstorm was covered. Jeopardy was preempted.

493
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,080
How do you think about that, Jim?

494
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,080
That bothers me.

495
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,080
That's a crime against humanity right there.

496
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:56,080
And, you know, they devoted more time to demonstrations overseas,

497
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,080
which, granted, got more people, but still there was this huge thing

498
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,080
with hundreds of thousands of people right here in New York,

499
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,080
and they didn't break away from programming to cover that.

500
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,080
We did, and we didn't cover the weather.

501
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,080
So that shows you the priorities, and that shows you why you should call this radio station to support it,

502
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,080
because that's why we're here tonight.

503
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,080
Well, it's not the only reason why we're here tonight.

504
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:21,080
We're here every week covering all kinds of events, whether they're technological, social,

505
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:26,080
or all kinds of different areas in our changing culture.

506
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,080
That's what we've evolved into over the years.

507
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,080
And this radio station is here to provide that voice,

508
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,080
and it provides a voice to so many different people.

509
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,080
Our listeners certainly understand that.

510
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:44,080
Now, we have some new ideas, new things that we're planning and doing,

511
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,080
and that's part of what we're offering here tonight for people who call in.

512
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,080
Although I should point out, you know, the real reason to call in is to support the radio station,

513
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,080
but we like to contribute something ourselves.

514
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,080
So what we do is we tend to bring things to the station and say,

515
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,080
okay, you know, this is what we can give people who pledge a certain amount.

516
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,080
What is the telephone number so people can make these calls of which you speak?

517
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,080
Good point.

518
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:10,080
212 is the area code, which you must dial now, even if you're in 212, from what I understand.

519
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,080
1-2-1-2.

520
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,080
You have to dial the 1? Has anybody tested that yet?

521
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:15,080
Yes.

522
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:16,080
And what happens if you don't dial the 1?

523
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,080
You don't get through?

524
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,080
I don't believe that.

525
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,080
Okay, 1-2-1-2.

526
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,080
2-0-9-2-9-5-0 is the number to call.

527
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:28,080
Now, before you call, this is what we are offering today.

528
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:33,080
Now, these are things that we are creating, even as we speak.

529
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,080
They do not yet exist.

530
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,080
They are going to exist in the next couple of weeks,

531
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,080
and we're not sure if they're going to exist for much longer than that

532
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,080
because it may be a very limited thing.

533
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,080
The first thing that we have come up with,

534
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,080
and this is something that Jeff and I are going to be talking about,

535
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:53,080
is a brand-new T-shirt specifically for Off The Hook.

536
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,080
That's right.

537
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:55,080
It's never been done before.

538
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,080
Never been done before.

539
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,080
We've had 2600 shirts.

540
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,080
We've had various Hope shirts.

541
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:05,080
But this is an Off The Hook exclusive radio show shirt.

542
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,080
What do you think about that?

543
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,080
Now, you can ask what it looks like.

544
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,080
We don't know because we haven't made it yet.

545
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,080
But we are making it, and we are committed to making this shirt,

546
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,080
and we are going to be making it in the next couple of weeks, right?

547
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:19,080
Yeah.

548
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,080
Okay, and then it will be printed up, and then it will be, you know,

549
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:28,080
it will go to the people, the people who pledge tonight for a pledge of $75.

550
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,080
They will be the first people to get these shirts,

551
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,080
the first people in the world, and maybe the last people in the world too.

552
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,080
Well, I don't think it's going to be ugly or anything like that,

553
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:42,080
but it's possible that we just won't want to make any more after that point.

554
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:43,080
I don't know.

555
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,080
All kinds of reasons could happen.

556
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,080
We could be at war, and we might not have time to make T-shirts.

557
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,080
We might have to make bullets or something.

558
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,080
I don't know.

559
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,080
Well, you know, you'll have to pitch in.

560
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,080
You know that, Mike.

561
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,080
Don't scoff at this.

562
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,080
Remember OTH bullet.

563
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,080
We'll be when I leave the show.

564
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,080
Shirts can be made into bandages.

565
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,080
I just want to say I've seen the shirt in a vision.

566
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,080
It's a nice shirt.

567
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,080
In a vision you've seen it?

568
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,080
Okay.

569
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,080
Well, if you subscribe to Jim's Visions,

570
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:12,080
then you know that they're in all kinds of different colors and things.

571
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,080
But, yeah, for a $75 pledge, you'll get that brand-new T-shirt,

572
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:23,080
plus I believe it's your choice of a video of Freedom Downtime

573
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,080
or a one-year subscription.

574
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:30,080
All you need to do is tell the person picking up the phone at the other end which you want.

575
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,080
It's either one or the other.

576
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,080
Freedom Downtime or a one-year subscription to 2600.

577
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,080
That's in addition to the off-the-hook T-shirt.

578
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,080
Pledge of $75.

579
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,080
We have no calls on the line.

580
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:42,080
Now, come on.

581
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,080
That's not a bad deal.

582
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,080
That's not a bad deal.

583
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,080
Now, for those of you who know that's what you want to pledge

584
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,080
and you want to pledge anything more than that,

585
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,080
please give a call now, 212-209-2950.

586
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,080
And once a couple of phone lines start ringing,

587
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,080
then we'll go into the second pledge level that we have,

588
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,080
which is even more spectacular but a bit more expensive,

589
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,080
212-209-2950.

590
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,080
We only do this a couple of times a year.

591
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,080
Actually, I think three times a year.

592
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,080
And it's necessary.

593
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,080
It's necessary because of what you don't hear.

594
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,080
You don't hear commercials.

595
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,080
You don't hear all kinds of sponsorship announcements like you hear

596
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,080
on just about every other radio station in town.

597
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:22,080
What you do hear is information and dissent of all sorts

598
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,080
and questions and answers that you just will not hear anyplace else.

599
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,080
212-209-2950.

600
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,080
That's not a bad response.

601
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:30,080
We have about five calls on the line.

602
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,080
Let's keep those coming in while we talk about the second premium level.

603
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,080
Before we do that, we should also point out that there may be people out there

604
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,080
who can't afford $75, and really any pledge helps.

605
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:42,080
Yeah, any pledge helps.

606
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:48,080
Just because you don't get the shirt or the film or the subscription

607
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,080
does not mean that we are going to chastise you

608
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,080
or call you losers or anything like that.

609
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,080
We want you to participate in whatever way you can.

610
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,080
And if it's a $10 pledge, a $20 pledge, whatever you can afford,

611
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,080
every little bit is going to help this radio station.

612
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,080
That's how we've gotten where we are today.

613
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,080
The station's been around since 1960.

614
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:11,080
1960, that's 43 years of WBAI New York.

615
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,080
And every day of that has been because of listeners like you.

616
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,080
Every day.

617
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,080
It's unprecedented achievement.

618
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,080
And never before has it been so important.

619
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,080
We have so many different things going on at once.

620
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:27,080
We have all different topics and projects to work on.

621
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:32,080
I feel like we're at the beginning of something really cool and productive.

622
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,080
Yeah, there's a lot of bad things going on.

623
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,080
There's a lot of things to be scared about.

624
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,080
But I feel like we're together.

625
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,080
I feel like there's a good group of people here.

626
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,080
Last Saturday in the city at night I was down in the village

627
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,080
and just all these people walking around with their buttons and their signs

628
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,080
just kind of like left over from the demonstration.

629
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,080
You saw it at Javits Center.

630
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,080
I saw it at the Port Authority when I was coming in.

631
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,080
And it felt like the whole city kind of went through this together.

632
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:04,080
And it was a really wonderful, peaceful event for the people that participated.

633
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,080
Obviously, there were some people that didn't want to be peaceful

634
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,080
and they were wearing uniforms for the most part.

635
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,080
But apart from that, I think a lot was accomplished.

636
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,080
A lot was gotten out there.

637
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,080
And it just feels really rejuvenating to have that happen

638
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,080
and to know that this place played a part in it.

639
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,080
This place really played a major part.

640
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,080
The IMC played a major part in it.

641
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,080
And all of us as individuals did.

642
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,080
And that's why it's important to give a call, 212-209-2950.

643
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,080
It was also interesting to see that people were still carrying their signs.

644
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,080
I mean, in the Port Authority, still wearing them on their chest.

645
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,080
No one was like, OK, it's over, it's done, we're throwing them out.

646
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,080
Everybody kept moving with them.

647
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,080
It almost looked like it was taking place there.

648
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,080
Yeah. And the funny thing was, the really cool thing, I think,

649
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,080
was that Citigroup, the Citigroup Center,

650
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,080
sort of turned into this staging area,

651
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,080
the place where we have the 2600 meetings every month.

652
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,080
I just managed to get over there.

653
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,080
And it was hard to get back over there too

654
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,080
because after the rally, by the way, rallies, I find rallies kind of dull.

655
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,080
I really do. I just have to confess that right now.

656
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,080
I just feel like people are constantly lecturing,

657
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,080
and it's all different things.

658
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,080
I think the interesting parts are the marches.

659
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,080
And, of course, that's what was denied.

660
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,080
Probably the city agrees that the interesting part is the march,

661
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:20,080
which is why they denied it.

662
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,080
But just walking through the streets,

663
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,080
seeing all the different people with all the different signs

664
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,080
and ways of expressing themselves, that to me was the real highlight.

665
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,080
And then after walking all the way back to 3rd Avenue,

666
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,080
where the Citigroup building is,

667
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,080
and going into the lobby area where we have our meetings,

668
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,080
it was filled with demonstrators,

669
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,080
people just kind of coming in from the cold and resting,

670
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,080
having a cup of tea.

671
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,080
It was so cool seeing people doing that.

672
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,080
And they weren't being hassled at all.

673
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,080
They were just kind of regrouping there.

674
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,080
And that's where I really felt like the whole city was behind this,

675
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,080
and together.

676
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,080
It's probably kind of a naive thought,

677
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,080
but it did feel kind of good.

678
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:57,080
One thing that really shocked me

679
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:02,080
is that we kind of almost unintentionally stopped traffic on 3rd Avenue.

680
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,080
There were so many people that we filled the street,

681
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,080
and the cars had nowhere to go.

682
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,080
And so there were a post office truck and a city bus

683
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,080
and some private cars just kind of stuck there,

684
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,080
and they weren't upset.

685
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,080
Well, I saw some people who were upset,

686
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,080
but you can't really...

687
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,080
I mean, who was driving in a situation like that,

688
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,080
knowing there was a huge demonstration?

689
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,080
There were even signs up on the expressways saying,

690
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,080
Demonstration Saturday. Don't drive on the east side.

691
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,080
And people drove on the east side,

692
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,080
and they got stuck in traffic,

693
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:33,080
and that's what happens.

694
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,080
But if I was in a car then,

695
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:36,080
knowing that was going on,

696
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,080
you were part of history.

697
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:39,080
Yeah, it sucks.

698
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,080
You won't get where you want to go in a timely way,

699
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,080
but it's history,

700
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,080
and recognize it for that.

701
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,080
And yeah, for the most part,

702
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,080
I think people were pretty tolerant of what was going on.

703
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,080
One thing, though, that was very dangerous

704
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,080
when we were crossing 3rd Avenue.

705
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:58,080
We had the walk sign,

706
00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,080
and there were no cops around,

707
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:00,080
so people were starting to walk,

708
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,080
but there were cops on the other side of the street

709
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,080
waving buses through at full speed

710
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,080
without having any kind of contact with the pedestrians

711
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,080
who were trying to cross the street.

712
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,080
So I saw a couple of people almost get plowed into

713
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,080
by speeding buses that were going through red lights.

714
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,080
So that was not very cool,

715
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,080
and that's something that I think

716
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,080
they really need to take a good look at

717
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,080
in their priorities.

718
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,080
Okay, 212-209-2950 is the phone number.

719
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,080
Thanks for the people who have called in already.

720
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,080
Now, we have a second pledge level,

721
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,080
and that pledge level is $125.

722
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,080
For that, you get something

723
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,080
that is really a monumental project for us,

724
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,080
and it's something based on the feedback

725
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,080
that we got from listeners to this radio show

726
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,080
when we asked a few weeks ago,

727
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,080
what kinds of things do you want to see?

728
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,080
And, Sarif, do you want to talk about this a little bit?

729
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,080
We're going to be giving away some new hooded sweatshirts

730
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,080
with a brand-new 2600 design on them.

731
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:54,080
That's right. That's right.

732
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,080
Hooded sweatshirts.

733
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:56,080
This is a first for us.

734
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,080
We've never ventured into this world before.

735
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,080
I mean, we've been in this world before,

736
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,080
but we've never actually provided the hooded sweatshirts.

737
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,080
We've hung out with lots of people

738
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,080
that wear hooded sweatshirts.

739
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,080
Some of us have worn hooded sweatshirts ourselves,

740
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,080
and it's every bit as dangerous as you might think,

741
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,080
both mentally and physically.

742
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:14,080
But now we are...

743
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,080
Oh, you have one?

744
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,080
Jeff, I never knew you were the hooded sweatshirt type.

745
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:19,080
Why don't you put it on?

746
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:20,080
Let's see what...

747
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,080
You have a skull on the front of it.

748
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,080
Why do you have a skull on the front of it?

749
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,080
Are you part of some heavy metal cult?

750
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,080
No, I've got a good deal on it.

751
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,080
This is actually the logo from The Punisher.

752
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,080
How about that? Are you The Punisher?

753
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,080
I've been known to be The Punisher.

754
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,080
All right, well, for a pledge of $125,

755
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:42,080
you can get your own brand-new, unique 2600 hooded sweatshirt,

756
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,080
which right now are in super limited quantities.

757
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,080
They haven't yet been produced, but they will be.

758
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,080
You have our word on that.

759
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,080
And I'm not sure if we're going to continue producing them.

760
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,080
It depends, I guess, on the kind of reaction we get tonight.

761
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,080
Yeah, actually, the people here can decide

762
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,080
if we're going to make more of these for the future,

763
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,080
for the untrodden masses out there that aren't listening right now.

764
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,080
Now, for that, you will also get...

765
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,080
It's not over yet.

766
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,080
You will also get a copy of the film Freedom Downtime,

767
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,080
the Kevin Mitnick documentary,

768
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,080
which came out a year or so ago.

769
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,080
And in addition to that,

770
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,080
you'll get a subscription to 2600 magazine.

771
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,080
If you already have a subscription, we'll just add on a year.

772
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,080
All that for $125.

773
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,080
212-209-2950, that's a really good deal.

774
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,080
You're getting a lot of bang for your buck there.

775
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,080
But most importantly, even if you weren't getting a thing,

776
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,080
the important thing is to call up and pledge support for the radio station

777
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,080
because that's what makes this magic happen.

778
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,080
And there's been a lot of magic lately.

779
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,080
And I feel like it's only going to get better.

780
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:46,080
On behalf of the listeners of WBII-FM 99.5,

781
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,080
I want to ask, what's on the hooded sweatshirt?

782
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,080
Obviously not the Punisher logo.

783
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,080
Well, no, we're not going to put a skull and crossbones on it.

784
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:55,080
But it's going to be...

785
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,080
Well, we don't have the exact logo quite worked out.

786
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,080
We're hammering that out right now.

787
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,080
But it's definitely going to be a 2600 logo of a sort.

788
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,080
It'll say 2600 on the front.

789
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,080
And we're not sure if it's going to say something else in addition

790
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,080
or have a graphic.

791
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,080
But when you're walking around with your hooded sweatshirt friends,

792
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,080
you will be accepted.

793
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,080
Let's put it that way.

794
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,080
You will not be chastised.

795
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,080
We're not going to put a picture of, like, Barney the Dinosaur

796
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,080
or something like that on it.

797
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,080
Although I understand that's accepted these days in some goth clubs.

798
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:27,080
But never mind that.

799
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,080
212-209-2950.

800
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:30,080
I see two calls on the line.

801
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,080
We should have ten calls on the line.

802
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:37,080
We have two pledge levels, $75 for the new off-the-hook T-shirt

803
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:42,080
along with your choice of a subscription or a video of Freedom Downtime.

804
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:47,080
And for $125, you can get the hooded sweatshirt,

805
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,080
the brand-new 2600 hooded sweatshirt,

806
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,080
plus both the video and the 2600 subscription.

807
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,080
It's really quite remarkable.

808
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:02,080
A couple of shows ago, we were just giving away the 2600 video of Freedom Downtime.

809
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,080
And that in itself, if you have not seen the film,

810
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,080
that's an educational thing to have.

811
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:13,080
We could easily be giving that away for a $100 pledge by itself.

812
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:18,080
Many times videos are pledged for at least that amount.

813
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,080
You can buy the video for less, certainly,

814
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,080
but it's the radio station you're pledging for.

815
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,080
And you're becoming one of our sponsors

816
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:29,080
as opposed to having Exxon or Pepsi or one of those companies be our sponsors.

817
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,080
212-209-2950.

818
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,080
I've successfully driven off all the calls from the lines,

819
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,080
so we need to get some more people calling in.

820
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,080
212-209-2950.

821
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,080
Pledge your support to Off the Hook, to the radio station.

822
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,080
Keep this kind of thing coming your way.

823
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,080
Don't be afraid.

824
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,080
People say they want hooded sweatshirts,

825
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,080
and I haven't seen anybody calling in for the hooded sweatshirts yet.

826
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,080
If this is going to work,

827
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:01,080
we have to have a lot of people calling in to try these things out.

828
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,080
What is the telephone number? I've forgotten already.

829
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,080
You forgot. 212-209-2950.

830
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,080
That is our phone number.

831
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,080
It's very, very simple to write it down,

832
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,080
call your friends, have them call in.

833
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,080
You have to dial one first, regardless of the country.

834
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,080
Yeah, you have to dial one first. That's right.

835
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,080
The weird thing is, yesterday I was calling Queens,

836
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,080
and I didn't have to dial the area code.

837
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,080
I was calling from Staten Island to Queens,

838
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,080
and I didn't dial the area code. I forgot to do that.

839
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,080
And it went through perfectly.

840
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,080
Well, that just goes to show you, anything is possible.

841
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,080
You know, it's possible that eventually it may be something like 212-0.

842
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,080
There's an article here, Leo.

843
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,080
There's an article in the new...

844
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,080
I got this from the Wired website.

845
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,080
It's dated yesterday morning.

846
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:55,080
It basically says that they're thinking of adding two digits to phone numbers

847
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,080
by 2005.

848
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,080
Well, this is what they should have done to start with.

849
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,080
They wouldn't have had to get all these crazy area codes

850
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,080
if they had added digits in the first place.

851
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:08,080
Ironically, it's the phone companies blaming the voice-over Internet people

852
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,080
where a couple of weeks ago somebody called up

853
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,080
and said that they get numbers in various area codes

854
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,080
for a relatively cheap price,

855
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,080
and they say that this is eating up numbers even faster

856
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:23,080
than cell phones and pagers and lines dedicated to computers have.

857
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,080
So now the phone companies are accusing these companies

858
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,080
of eating up the numbers at a high rate,

859
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,080
and saying, oh, we're going to have to go to another numbering scheme,

860
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,080
and the proposal from the voice-over Internet people

861
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,080
is add a digit after the area code.

862
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,080
Gee, I've heard that before.

863
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:38,080
Yeah, right here you've heard that.

864
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,080
And maybe if the people, the North American Numbering Authority,

865
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:42,080
had been listening to this radio show,

866
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,080
we wouldn't be having to dial all these extra digits.

867
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,080
We'd have a scheme that made some sense.

868
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:48,080
This one has two digits.

869
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:49,080
Two digits.

870
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,080
Well, yeah, but the thing is, you know, we have...

871
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,080
Nobody knows where area code 585 is.

872
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:55,080
Nobody here knows.

873
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,080
Someone knows.

874
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:57,080
You know.

875
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,080
I know, because I've even brought this up before on this show,

876
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,080
and nobody remembers where area codes are anymore.

877
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:02,080
Where is it?

878
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:03,080
It's somewhere in upstate New York.

879
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:04,080
Ah.

880
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:05,080
Yeah.

881
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:06,080
212-209-2950.

882
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,080
We have one call on the line.

883
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,080
We can do so much better than that, folks.

884
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,080
No matter what you can afford to pledge,

885
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,080
it's important that we hear from you,

886
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,080
that we make this a successful fundraising drive

887
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,080
for this radio station,

888
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:23,080
because we're poised on the precipice of all kinds of craziness ahead.

889
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,080
I mean, we're at the verge of war.

890
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,080
We're at the verge of the economy falling apart.

891
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:32,080
We're at the verge of all kinds of draconian laws being passed.

892
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,080
We have this new thing called Patriot 2 we're going to get into

893
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,080
in just a couple of minutes.

894
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,080
But, you know, one thing that we have that's good

895
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,080
is this place to talk about them,

896
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,080
this place to spread information,

897
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,080
to communicate ideas,

898
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:46,080
to take your phone calls,

899
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,080
all kinds of things like that.

900
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,080
And believe me, this place will not exist into the future

901
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,080
if certain people have their say,

902
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,080
if things like Patriot 2 go forward,

903
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:02,080
if things like Homeland Security continue to gather ignorance and strength.

904
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,080
You're going to see all kinds of controls and restrictions

905
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,080
that you have not ever seen before.

906
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,080
And we are one of the voices here that are crying out

907
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,080
to get people's attention,

908
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,080
and we need to pay bills in order to be able to do that.

909
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:17,080
Radio stations in New York City,

910
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,080
50,000-watt radio stations in New York City,

911
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,080
are very expensive to maintain

912
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,080
and even more expensive to buy.

913
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:28,080
So God forbid we ever lose a place like this.

914
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,080
It's not something you're going to get back very quickly or easily.

915
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,080
You know, they launch new kinds of technology all the time.

916
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,080
They have the satellite services, XM, Sirius,

917
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,080
but you don't hear Pacifica on those.

918
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,080
You know, even though there's new technology,

919
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,080
they don't permit these voices to be heard.

920
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,080
So you better believe if these radio stations

921
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,080
are ever taken over by some other entity,

922
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,080
they're not going to be given back.

923
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,080
They're not going to be just handed over to alternative voices.

924
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,080
They're going to be taken over by the same corporate interests,

925
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,080
Clear Channel and whatnot.

926
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,080
You're just going to hear one side of everything.

927
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,080
So that's why it's important to preserve what you have while it's here,

928
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,080
and we're still here.

929
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,080
212-209-2950, four calls on the line.

930
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,080
That's good news. That's good news.

931
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,080
We need to build it up a little bit.

932
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,080
We're on for two hours tonight. We're on until 9 o'clock.

933
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,080
We're going to have some special guests joining us after the hour,

934
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,080
and we look forward to that.

935
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,080
We don't want to keep them waiting, though.

936
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,080
We need to drive the tally figure up a little bit

937
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,080
so we can move forward and do all kinds of fun things.

938
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,080
Again, two pledge levels.

939
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,080
$75 for the new off-the-hook T-shirt,

940
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,080
plus your choice of video or subscription,

941
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,080
and $125 for the hooded sweatshirt,

942
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,080
the 2600 hooded sweatshirt, brand new,

943
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,080
and a video as well as a subscription,

944
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,080
plus any amount is acceptable to help us out,

945
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:57,080
to help us reach our various goals that we have.

946
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,080
I believe a basic membership is $50,

947
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,080
and student and low-income at $25.

948
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,080
For people who can afford that, it really helps.

949
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,080
Yeah, 212-209-2950.

950
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,080
That's the number to call.

951
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,080
Now, we always get...

952
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,080
This is our only show during this fundraiser.

953
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,080
We always get people that call in,

954
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,080
or that write in after the show has aired.

955
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,080
They listen to it on the Internet,

956
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,080
and they want to pledge then.

957
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:26,080
Well, you know, you can't.

958
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,080
I mean, yeah, you can pledge to the radio station,

959
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,080
but you can't pledge to off-the-hook.

960
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:31,080
We're on once. This is tonight.

961
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,080
This is the only night that we're going to be on

962
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:34,080
during this fundraiser,

963
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,080
so it's really important that people call in now.

964
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,080
212-209-2950.

965
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:40,080
And Junce is here.

966
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,080
Junce is here.

967
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,080
Junce has just walked in from New Jersey.

968
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:44,080
How are you doing, Junce?

969
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:45,080
Pretty good.

970
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:46,080
Yeah?

971
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,080
Trouble with the traffic?

972
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:49,080
Yeah, there's a lot of people

973
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:50,080
trying to get into the city tonight.

974
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:51,080
Yeah.

975
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,080
Well, maybe it's a lot of people

976
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:53,080
trying to get out of New Jersey.

977
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:54,080
That could be.

978
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:55,080
No offense to our New Jersey listeners

979
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,080
who also need to dial 1212-209-2950.

980
00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:59,080
Now, Junce is...

981
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:00,080
None taken.

982
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,080
Oh, yeah, that's right.

983
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,080
You're from New Jersey.

984
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:03,080
Everyone's from New Jersey these days.

985
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:04,080
Not everyone.

986
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:05,080
Well, a lot more people.

987
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,080
But Junce is one of the main,

988
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:08,080
if not the main person,

989
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,080
behind the web streaming,

990
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:11,080
not only of Off the Hook,

991
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,080
but of WBAI in general.

992
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,080
So a great debt of gratitude is owed to him.

993
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,080
Now, Jess, I guess you can applaud if you want.

994
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,080
It's always nice to do that.

995
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:23,080
All right.

996
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,080
Now, a lot of people don't realize this,

997
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,080
but for a couple of years now,

998
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,080
really ever since the coup here at WBAI,

999
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,080
2,600 and 2,600 friends

1000
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,080
have been providing the streaming 24-7

1001
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:37,080
for WBAI,

1002
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,080
so people around the world can hear this.

1003
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,080
Now, that kind of thing costs a ton of money

1004
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,080
if you do it the right way.

1005
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,080
But if you do it the hacker way,

1006
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,080
you can figure out ways,

1007
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,080
and I'm not talking about anything illegal here.

1008
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,080
I'm talking about ways of just using technology

1009
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:54,080
and being clever about it.

1010
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,080
And, for instance, now we have our stream

1011
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,080
going out to very...

1012
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:00,080
How does it work now, Junce?

1013
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,080
Why don't you tell us how the show works.

1014
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:02,080
Well, we're split up

1015
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,080
among a couple of different servers.

1016
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:05,080
So where it would take...

1017
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,080
You'd have to spend several hundred dollars a month

1018
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,080
for one big server.

1019
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,080
You can spread it out among a bunch of smaller ones

1020
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,080
for free.

1021
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,080
So right now, you have a radio in your house.

1022
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:19,080
Is that how it works?

1023
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:20,080
Yeah, basically.

1024
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,080
It's feeding into its own card on a computer

1025
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,080
that's feeding a signal out to one of the servers,

1026
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,080
and that gets replicated to all the other servers,

1027
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,080
and you're basically connecting to one of those servers

1028
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,080
and picking up a copy of the stream.

1029
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:32,080
So it's like a chain.

1030
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:33,080
Basically, yeah.

1031
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:34,080
Yeah.

1032
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,080
And so instead of having one centralized place

1033
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,080
that charges us a lot of money to maintain,

1034
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,080
we're basically kind of just jumping around

1035
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,080
and everybody's sort of pitching in.

1036
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:46,080
Basically, yeah.

1037
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:47,080
And we get a huge capacity that way.

1038
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:48,080
Oh, definitely.

1039
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:49,080
Yeah.

1040
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,080
Many hundreds of people can listen at one time.

1041
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,080
During this radio show, in fact,

1042
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,080
lots of people are constantly listening.

1043
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,080
We get the stats,

1044
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,080
and we know that we have several hundred people

1045
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,080
from around the world listening.

1046
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:02,080
And those people, by the way,

1047
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,080
can also be calling Country Code 1-212-209-2950

1048
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:07,080
and pledging.

1049
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,080
Oh, it looks like a lot of people are calling,

1050
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,080
which is really good news.

1051
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,080
Now, to keep this going,

1052
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,080
I think a lot of people take it for granted,

1053
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,080
and we've had some difficulties.

1054
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:19,080
We had a power failure out in Denver,

1055
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,080
which, believe it or not, affected this whole thing

1056
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,080
because Digital is one of our people out there

1057
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,080
who provides a great service to us

1058
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,080
by having a stream up there.

1059
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,080
And then things bounce over to Live 365,

1060
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,080
which has recently started asking for usernames.

1061
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,080
We're trying to figure out an alternate way

1062
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,080
so that people don't have to register usernames.

1063
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,080
But we're getting a lot of complaints from people.

1064
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,080
Some of them are kind of nasty.

1065
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,080
And, you know, I think people just need to realize

1066
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:48,080
this is a volunteer effort.

1067
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,080
This is something that people are doing

1068
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,080
out of the goodness of their hearts.

1069
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,080
And if there are people out there that can help,

1070
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,080
help make this work,

1071
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,080
yeah, call Jeff's phone.

1072
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,080
That's the best way to get our attention.

1073
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,080
Jones, what is it that we need right now

1074
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:05,080
that would make things so much easier?

1075
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:09,080
We need people with servers with lots of bandwidth.

1076
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,080
I mean, a couple of weeks ago,

1077
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,080
during the UN Security Council meeting,

1078
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:17,080
we were using almost seven megabits per second of bandwidth,

1079
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:18,080
and that's a lot.

1080
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:19,080
That's a lot.

1081
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:20,080
T1 is one and a half megabits,

1082
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,080
so that's a lot of bandwidth.

1083
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:23,080
And that's what we need.

1084
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,080
We need people who have access to these big pipes

1085
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,080
to give us a little bit of their bandwidth

1086
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,080
and help us spread it out.

1087
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:30,080
And, folks, that should tell you

1088
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:31,080
the importance of this radio station,

1089
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,080
that people are clamoring all around the world

1090
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:35,080
to connect to it, you know,

1091
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,080
and using all this bandwidth just to hear what's going on

1092
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,080
and the fact that they can't tune to a local station

1093
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,080
in their area and listen to this

1094
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,080
because it's so rare that you have to connect

1095
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,080
to a station in a distant city here in New York

1096
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,080
to hear what's going on in the world today.

1097
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:55,080
So if you want that resource to continue to be here,

1098
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,080
please give us a call, 212-209-2950.

1099
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,080
Pledge at one of the levels that we've announced.

1100
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,080
If you've forgotten what they are,

1101
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,080
just ask our tally people.

1102
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:05,080
They're very helpful.

1103
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:06,080
There's a whole lot of them down there,

1104
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,080
and they're all working very hard.

1105
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,080
It's, you know, we pitch in as much as we can.

1106
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:13,080
We donate the merchandise.

1107
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,080
We donate the bandwidth.

1108
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,080
We have people donating their time.

1109
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:19,080
So what we are asking in return

1110
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,080
is for people to donate some finances

1111
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,080
to the radio station itself,

1112
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:25,080
none of which comes to us.

1113
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:26,080
It all goes to the radio station.

1114
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,080
It all keeps the radio station going,

1115
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:29,080
and that is vital.

1116
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,080
That is so vital in this day and age.

1117
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,080
Now, Jens, we basically,

1118
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,080
so right now we have your server running,

1119
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,080
feeding people from different parts of the country

1120
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,080
for this radio show,

1121
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,080
but normally it's just one server,

1122
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,080
and then that server bounces over to Live365,

1123
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,080
and that's how things go during the normal business day.

1124
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,080
Right, and that was fine for a while.

1125
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,080
Unfortunately, we're getting more and more popular.

1126
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:56,080
I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

1127
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:57,080
It's good. It's good.

1128
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:58,080
It's just it becomes more complicated.

1129
00:50:58,080 --> 00:50:59,080
Oh, yeah.

1130
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:00,080
So now we're reaching the limits

1131
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,080
of what we can do with just that,

1132
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,080
so we really need either monetary donations

1133
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,080
where we can go and pay for a service

1134
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:08,080
or bandwidth.

1135
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,080
If you've got bandwidth, give us a server.

1136
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,080
Yeah, yeah, so either one,

1137
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,080
but if you're calling with a monetary donation,

1138
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,080
the number is 212-209-2950.

1139
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:18,080
If you're calling with bandwidth,

1140
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:22,080
well, just email us, I guess, oth at 2600.com.

1141
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,080
We'd love to hear from you there as well,

1142
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,080
but again, those donations are so important.

1143
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:27,080
It keeps this place going,

1144
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,080
and there's nothing better than knowing

1145
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,080
that the station is strong,

1146
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,080
that we're not prone to all kinds of silliness

1147
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,080
of being taken over and turned into, you know,

1148
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,080
a jazz station or something like that.

1149
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,080
We saw how real that threat was a couple of years ago,

1150
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,080
and this Saturday, in no small part,

1151
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,080
thanks to our new general manager, Don Rojas,

1152
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:47,080
who I have not yet met,

1153
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,080
but I've heard nothing but good things about,

1154
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,080
and the spirit here is just unbelievably cool right now.

1155
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,080
It really is, and what we've seen on Saturday,

1156
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,080
just more recognition for this place

1157
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,080
than I've ever seen before any place.

1158
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,080
I mean, you know, with the possible exception

1159
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,080
of the rallies to save WBAI,

1160
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,080
the rally in New York City for, you know, for peace

1161
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,080
had such a BAI presence that it was just,

1162
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,080
it was awe-inspiring, it really was,

1163
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,080
and that kind of thing is made possible

1164
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,080
by listeners, obviously, keeping the place afloat.

1165
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,080
Not by Exxon, not by Mobil,

1166
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,080
although they're the same company, aren't they?

1167
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:23,080
Not by Exxon Mobil,

1168
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,080
and certainly not by any of the corporate interests

1169
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,080
that we are constantly talking about.

1170
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,080
Not by the phone companies, not by the internet companies,

1171
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,080
or anything like that.

1172
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,080
It's all done by our listeners.

1173
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:36,080
It's miraculous.

1174
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,080
212-209-2950.

1175
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,080
Please give us a call.

1176
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,080
Also, you know, I've been journeying around the country

1177
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,080
for the past five weeks or so,

1178
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:50,080
calling in from various parts of the country,

1179
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,080
and it was really cool, you know,

1180
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,080
being able to hear the listeners,

1181
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,080
being able to take phone calls from, you know,

1182
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,080
Arizona and California and Amsterdam

1183
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,080
and all kinds of other places.

1184
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,080
And it's, of course, great to be back here.

1185
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:10,080
But the really important thing to remember

1186
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,080
is that radio needs to be local.

1187
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,080
Radio needs to be...

1188
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,080
It needs to have local voices.

1189
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,080
Now, when you travel across the country,

1190
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,080
you spend a lot of time listening to the radio in the car,

1191
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,080
and you realize how much of this is not local anymore,

1192
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:27,080
how much of it is simply a satellite feed.

1193
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,080
Now, I have to admit,

1194
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:33,080
while driving, you know, in various places

1195
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:37,080
where the only voices you hear are religion

1196
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:41,080
and, you know, awful music, really bad music,

1197
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,080
in fact, I've got some religion to play,

1198
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:44,080
which I'll play in a future week,

1199
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,080
because I don't have it with me today,

1200
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:47,080
but we actually...

1201
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,080
We heard something so crazy on the radio

1202
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,080
that we held our mobile phones up to the speaker of the car

1203
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,080
and called our voicemail

1204
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,080
so that we'd be able to save it somehow,

1205
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,080
and then we turned that into a wave

1206
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,080
so that we'll be able to burn it onto a CD and play it here.

1207
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,080
Hopefully, it'll sound kind of interesting.

1208
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:08,080
But the craziest, you know, religious, fundamentalist,

1209
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,080
and, you know, closed-minded opinions being expressed,

1210
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:14,080
not to say that all religious stuff is closed-minded,

1211
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:18,080
but when there's nothing else, when there's no alternatives,

1212
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:22,080
that's when it becomes really important to, you know,

1213
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,080
to start thinking what else can be here,

1214
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:25,080
what else can be expressed.

1215
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,080
Now, I spend a lot of time listening to National Public Radio,

1216
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,080
which I usually am a big critic of

1217
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,080
because I don't like what they do to radio stations,

1218
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,080
I don't like the fact that they take over radio stations everywhere

1219
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,080
and shut down colleges, college voices,

1220
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:42,080
and turn them into, you know, classical stations or jazz stations.

1221
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:46,080
But when you're out there where there's no other voices,

1222
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,080
the occasional talk shows that they have

1223
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,080
really are a bastion of sanity.

1224
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,080
But it's not local. It's still not local.

1225
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,080
When we were driving around in parts of California,

1226
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:02,080
we came across some local talk shows on various radio stations.

1227
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,080
Not always, you know, things that we would agree with,

1228
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:08,080
but just, you know, local in character.

1229
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:12,080
At one point, there was rioting in Oakland

1230
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:16,080
because the Super Bowl was over and Oakland had lost.

1231
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,080
And that was the defeat riot.

1232
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,080
I imagine the victory riot would have been a lot worse.

1233
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,080
But we were listening to radio stations coming out of Oakland

1234
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:26,080
and hearing reporters who were trapped in their cars

1235
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:30,080
while people were basically, you know, smashing things all around them.

1236
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,080
And it was just, you know, it wasn't a very nice situation,

1237
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,080
but it was very engaging to be able to listen to what was happening live

1238
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,080
from the standpoint of somebody who was actually there.

1239
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,080
And that kind of thing happens so rarely these days.

1240
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,080
Usually what you have is you have a satellite feed

1241
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,080
coming from someplace of music from a DJ

1242
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,080
who's in a different city altogether

1243
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,080
pretending he's in the same town.

1244
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,080
And there's just no connection at all to the listener anymore.

1245
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:58,080
We were driving in a heavy snowstorm in Minnesota late at night.

1246
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,080
We had no idea what the weather was like.

1247
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,080
We were calling those stupid numbers they have on the side of the road,

1248
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,080
on the blue signs that say, on your cellular phone, dial this.

1249
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,080
And it wasn't giving any information that was helpful.

1250
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,080
And then finally we found a local station

1251
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:15,080
that was taking phone calls from plow drivers.

1252
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:16,080
That's right.

1253
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,080
Snow plow drivers were calling into this radio station

1254
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:23,080
giving reports on where the roads were slippery or plowed or not plowed.

1255
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:28,080
And it was just so refreshing to hear something like that.

1256
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,080
Not the same voices over and over again.

1257
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,080
Not the same music over and over again.

1258
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:36,080
Local voices, local angles, local perspective.

1259
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,080
And it's a vanishing breed.

1260
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,080
Local radio is such a vanishing breed.

1261
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,080
Now, BAI covers a lot of national, international news,

1262
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,080
but we always have this New York bent to things.

1263
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,080
And that's something I hope we never lose.

1264
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,080
When something is happening in this city, we cover it.

1265
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:55,080
In order to do that, we need to be able to continue operating, obviously.

1266
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,080
It doesn't take much to figure that out.

1267
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:58,080
And that's why we need support.

1268
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:01,080
212-209-2950.

1269
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,080
Yes, Jeff.

1270
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,080
I don't know if people are aware that...