1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,000 here at WBAI. Coming up next, Off The Hook with Emanuel Goldstein. Stay tuned. 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:24,240 On Sunday, January 17th at 3pm at the Harlem State Office Building Art Gallery, stand with 3 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:29,520 our Freedom Fighters as the Malcolm X Commemoration Committee hosts its third annual dinner tribute 4 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:34,640 to the families of our political prisoners, recognizing their enormous, unseen sacrifices 5 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:41,680 as their loved ones continue to stand tall for us all behind the walls after all these years. 6 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:52,720 Proceeds will go to commissary for almost two dozen of our Freedom Fighters. Make it happen, 7 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:58,560 January 17th, Harlem State Office Building, 3pm, Free Mumia and all political prisoners. For more 8 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:06,000 information call 718-949-5153. That's 718-949-5153. 9 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:15,440 We will not obey. Racism. We will not obey. 10 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,640 Give a gift to WBAI this holiday season by volunteering your time. 11 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,960 We are searching for people to help with pledge drive billings and mailings. 12 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:41,680 We need volunteers to assist with general administrative tasks such as stuffing envelopes, 13 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,040 mailing bills and preparing premiums for the next few weeks. 14 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:56,640 Please call us. We could really use your help. Contact Karen at 212-209-2828. That's 212-209-2828. 15 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:11,040 And the time is just about eight o'clock, which means, it being Tuesday night, 16 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,640 it's time for Off The Hook. 17 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:38,640 Much worse. But if they could, they would. For Billy Bo, for the best, expect the worst. 18 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,640 I hope that's understood. For Billy Bo! 19 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:24,640 Okay, we want to thank you guys for coming in and being a chorus for us while we're 20 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,880 trying to make a phone call here. Just turn it down a little bit. Thank you very much. 21 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:32,880 We have a studio in the other room where musicians come and practice. 22 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:39,280 Brian Eno is just in there messing around. We're trying to call somebody overseas, 23 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:44,800 actually, and apparently we're having trouble with not our phone system as I thought we were having, 24 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,200 but problems with AT&T. And I don't know if we'll be able to get through. 25 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,160 But we do have other things to talk about tonight, 26 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,680 and we will talk about that to some degree, whether or not we're able to get our guest. 27 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,440 Program is Off The Hook. It's Emanuel Goldstein with you on this Tuesday night, 28 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:07,360 the first show of 1999, what could be the last year of our existence on this planet, 29 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:13,040 because of the year 2000 disaster, which is going to strike us. 30 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,400 And it's going to strike us hard. That's what I'm being told. That's what I'm being told over 31 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:24,000 and over again. Someone sent me a picture just as evidence of what's going to be, 32 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:32,320 what's in store for us, of the first, the first in many foul ups and blunders, 33 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:40,800 namely the New York State inspection system for motor vehicles. Apparently some of the cars are 34 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:47,440 getting stickers that say 1991 when it's supposed to say 2001. And that's just 35 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:53,280 causing mayhem. If you saw any mayhem on the streets, that's what's causing it. 36 00:07:55,120 --> 00:08:00,000 And yeah, it's only 1999. Imagine what's going to happen in the year 2000 and the years beyond. 37 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:08,560 It's pretty scary. We have, actually Patty is here with an update on the Kevin Mitnick saga, 38 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,800 which has taken a turn for the worse. And we have all kinds of other news things. So while I'm 39 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,760 trying to call overseas again, why don't you update us as to what's been happening over the 40 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:29,120 past couple of weeks? Okay. Well over the holidays, Kevin Mitnick was moved from, he's still at MDC 41 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:39,920 almost four years now. He's was moved from sixth north, which was one area of the prison. He was 42 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:47,680 asked if he wanted to move down to five north, which is a better place to be. You get more 43 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:53,120 privileges, extra phone time, more freedom and better conditions. So he was down there for 13 44 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:59,680 days. Then he was told that he had to be moved to five south. When he asked to be moved back to his 45 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:04,000 old four, six north, he was told there were security reasons why he couldn't be returned 46 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:09,360 to that floor, but it was never given any specific explanation as to why the changes were 47 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:15,200 taking place. But the thing is, every time you move from one floor to another, you lose all your 48 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:21,360 privileges, floor privileges. They are, he had become a trustee, made friends and had his own 49 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,560 cell. Well, over the New Year's Eve, actually New Year's Eve, Kevin Mitnick slept on the floor. 50 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:33,760 He, there was no mat. He had to sleep on a dirty floor. This because there were no cells. 51 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:42,400 On five south, not only that, but if he wanted to use a bathroom, he must ask one of the other 135 52 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:47,520 inmates on the floor if he can use their toilet because there's no general bathroom facility on 53 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:55,280 the floor. So that's how he spent New Year's Eve and has continued to spend nights on the floor. 54 00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:01,440 Now, I understand that just today he was moved from five back to the sixth floor, 55 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:08,240 but not the sixth north where he has friends and his original benefits, but the sixth south 56 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:13,920 where he still doesn't know anybody and still no cell, has the same toilet problems and everything. 57 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:19,920 But he got his prison library time back, but still no computer or legal help to be with him 58 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:26,320 while he reviews the evidence. They say he was moved because of security reasons. There's one 59 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:33,520 thing, Justin Peterson, aka Agent Steele, if you remember who he is, he was an informant that 60 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:42,800 actually got Kevin in trouble as well as other people. And he goes to court and is also at MDC 61 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:48,320 on the seventh floor. So he's facing charges for violating a supervised release and he was on the 62 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:53,120 seventh floor. So there was some kind of discussion that perhaps they were afraid that they would be 63 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:58,080 talking between the vents or something like that. Anyway, it's unclear why there are security 64 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:06,160 reasons or why he hasn't been moved where he would be comfortable and, you know, just 65 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,640 well, what he deserves. I mean, he's innocent until proven guilty. I think it's quite a lot of abuse 66 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:17,920 for somebody that hasn't really, you know, has been sitting there for four years, almost four years. 67 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:25,920 Anyway, there's something you can do if you're interested. You can call the prison and speak to, 68 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:35,760 he has a counselor named Mike Langowski and he's said that he was sorry, but there was nothing he 69 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:41,840 could do. That's what he's been saying about his Kevin's problems. But maybe if you want to call 70 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:50,240 him, I have the phone number. His name is Mike Langowski, L-A-N-G-O-U-S-K-I. And his phone number 71 00:11:50,240 --> 00:12:02,880 in California is 213-485-0439. And, you know, don't be harassing or anything because 72 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:08,000 that won't really help Kevin at all. But, you know, maybe you can just ask him why he's being 73 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:15,040 moved around and, you know, ask that he be put in a proper cell with the, you know, the amenities 74 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:24,640 that every normal prisoner deserves. So also, you know, you might want to get in touch with the 75 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:31,600 senators as well there because sometimes it helps to go above these people's heads. 76 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,520 Yeah, it's interesting because I was talking to Kevin only a couple of days ago and he was 77 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,920 obviously beside himself with frustration as to the latest developments here. 78 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:46,240 It basically seemed as if he was kind of tricked into leaving the place where he was the most 79 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:52,240 comfortable, where he had built up relationships and privileges and things like that. And they 80 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,360 had asked him a couple of times before, will you please move to this section because we need the 81 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:03,520 room. And he finally agreed as a favor, as a favor to them to help them out a little bit. 82 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:08,720 Actually, he's doing them favors. But he said, look, it's okay for me to be there, right? Because 83 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,680 this is mostly for people that have already been sentenced, this section here. So it won't be a 84 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:16,960 problem me going there. And they said, of course, no, no problem at all. And then he said, well, 85 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:21,040 if it is a problem, I won't have any trouble getting back here. They said, no, of course not. 86 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,040 They lied on both instances or if they didn't lie, they were woefully misinformed themselves. 87 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:30,160 And he wound up in a place where he wasn't supposed to be, according to them anyway. 88 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,280 Then they transferred him over to a different place where there was no room for him and he 89 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,000 he's sleeping on the floor. It's incredible that these kind of conditions exist here. 90 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,800 But this is, I guess it's typical. I guess this happens to a lot of people. 91 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:50,640 Yeah, well, the only thing is that we're hearing about it because he has a voice over the air. 92 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:55,840 I mean, how many prisoners of all kinds are going through just exactly these same things, 93 00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:00,560 but actually have absolutely nobody that even cares about them, you know, so you can imagine. 94 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:07,920 No, it's a prison industrial complex is alive and well. And for you never even know why they're 95 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,360 doing this to people. Now, do you have it? Did you get phone numbers out? Because I was trying to 96 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,880 negotiate with AT&T just now. I gave the Mike Glangowski number who's Kevin's counselor. 97 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,840 And you could also, you know, it's mostly you get a voicemail there, but there's also, 98 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,520 you know, you can ask to speak to the warden or something like that. 99 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,040 Yeah, it is important that people voice their concern here because we are talking about 100 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:36,000 human life that is suffering even more than being in prison for almost four years 101 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:42,720 without a trial. So please, if you do call, be responsible and reasonable. I mean, 102 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:48,560 these are people, too, and we don't want them to get even angrier or more full of retribution to 103 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,800 Kevin. So thanks, Patty, for stopping in and updating us. And of course, 104 00:14:52,800 --> 00:15:01,120 we'll be updating people as the weeks go by. Okay, we managed to get through to our guest 105 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,280 overseas. And boy, what a pain that was. We were doing all kinds of things from weird looking area 106 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:11,680 codes to weird numbers to actual problems with AT&T. But we did get through in the end. And 107 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,680 we have with us Frank from the Chaos Computer Club. Are you there, Frank? 108 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:16,240 Hello. 109 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:16,800 How you doing? 110 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,280 We're a little bit tired, but good. 111 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,120 Well, yes, one o'clock in the morning over there, isn't it? 112 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,160 It's nearly half past two, yes. 113 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:29,600 Oh, okay. I guess I had the time a little wrong there. All right. Well, we'll make this as quick 114 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:37,280 as we possibly can then. Recently, a couple of weeks ago, there was a meeting. I'll read 115 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:42,560 the announcement for the meeting first so people know exactly what it is we're talking about. 116 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:49,680 Monday, December 28th, members of the legions of the underground will be holding a meeting 117 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,840 this evening, 4 p.m. Pacific time. I guess it doesn't really matter. But the meeting was held 118 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:59,600 back in December to discuss possible formal and sanctioned attacks against Chinese and Iraqi 119 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:04,400 data systems in order to protest the human rights policies of both governments. Now, 120 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:11,600 this has gotten some media attention since that happened. Hackers going out attacking Chinese 121 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:17,280 and Iraqi sites. And of course, over the past couple of months, there have been 122 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:22,720 hacked websites in China that have gone on to protest the human rights abuses over there. 123 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:27,920 But this seemed to be a step beyond that. It seemed to be calling for all-out war against 124 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,760 these two nations. And I understand that people at the Chaos Computer Club 125 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,720 have initiated a response to this. Frank, could you tell us basically what that response is? 126 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:44,240 Yes, we are very concerned about what the legion of the underground proposed as all-out war because 127 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:50,640 this was exactly what the people in the information warfare side of the government 128 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:57,440 in the U.S. and Germany are dreaming about, hackers attacking another state. And so we 129 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,320 decided it's time to get some other hacker groups together with us to discuss this problem 130 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:08,720 and to have a joint statement on this issue, stating that the Legion of the Underground is 131 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,400 not speaking for a lot of hackers here, but only for a small fraction. 132 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,840 Yes. And in fact, I should point out that 2600 has already agreed to be part of that statement. 133 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:19,840 Who else has signed up so far? 134 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:27,280 To this point, The Loft has signed. The Card of the Cow people are discussing it. 135 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:33,520 Frank is with us. A Spanish group called HispaHack is with us. Pullas from Portugal is with us. 136 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:39,440 And some other groups are at this point discussing if they're going to sign the statement, 137 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:40,960 and everybody's invited there. 138 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,560 Now, what is the main problem that you have with people 139 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:51,040 going out and protesting human rights abuses? Do you see this going beyond that? 140 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:57,280 The problem is not protest. The problem is if you deliberately go out and try to 141 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:03,120 sabotage a severe infrastructure of a country, you're doing damage far beyond everything that's 142 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:08,880 called protest. What you're doing is you're harming people, and you're harming the cause 143 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:13,280 of the hackers. You're trying to establish information freedom. People from our scene 144 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:18,480 are going out there and trying to destroy information networks. It's the complete opposite. 145 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:24,320 And the problem is that hackers could establish themselves as a tool of war with these things. 146 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:29,200 And if this happens, hackers and hacking will be seen as acts of war. 147 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,560 And this could very quickly lead to another pair of dead hackers. 148 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:38,800 And of course, you're referring to the recent tragedy over there in Germany. 149 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,560 You want to tell us something about that? 150 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,240 Yes. The case of Tron is not directly connected with 151 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:49,200 sabotaging someone's infrastructure, but it's a case of a very talented hacker who's 152 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:56,080 very deep into a chip card hacking and stuff like this, and who has killed himself. It's unclear. 153 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,880 Some people say he has killed himself. Most people think he was killed or at least 154 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:10,640 driven into suicide. And this guy had a lot of context into industry, into criminal scenes, 155 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:19,200 whatever. And finally, he was not anywhere to find or to call for four days. And after these 156 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,400 four days, he was found on a tree in a park in Germany. And we're just trying to figure out what 157 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,960 has happened. And there are a lot of traces in every direction. It's very difficult to find a 158 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:34,880 clue there. That's pretty ominous development coming from over there. Now, I know in the 159 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:41,520 letter that is being written up, you say that you don't really have a problem with people 160 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:47,760 hacking web pages. Is that true? That's a statement that has to be discussed. 161 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:54,560 There are quite different opinions, also in Chaos Club. Some people say, OK, it's not OK to hack 162 00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:01,360 web pages or just modify computers. Other people say, OK, in some cases, it might be legitimate, 163 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:10,640 if not legal, to track these pages and or maybe to reconfigure a filtering firewall to have people 164 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,600 getting better access from maybe inside China. This is an ongoing discussion. I think this 165 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:21,920 discussion has to be ongoing in the next days to get something like a point, something like an 166 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:28,000 updated ethics of hacking into account. But there were hacked web pages in China 167 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,600 over the past couple of months, and that didn't prompt this kind of a response from you. 168 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:39,360 I guess there's a number of people who think that that's pretty much a legitimate form of 169 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:43,920 expression, sort of like graffiti or something like that. But what's being discussed here with 170 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:49,200 this legions of the underground, is that it? OK, I can't keep up with the names. 171 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:55,040 That's something a bit beyond hacking web pages. What they're calling for is actual destruction of 172 00:20:55,040 --> 00:21:00,800 data systems. Is that it? Yes, that's what they're trying. And we got the impression that 173 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:06,000 there's only a small group of people who got this idea of especially attacking IRAC. OK, 174 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:13,440 if you're doing something against the Chinese, that might be arguable because, OK, this is ongoing 175 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:20,000 for a long time and there are close ties between the US government and the Chinese. But especially 176 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:27,440 going to the argument, OK, we tried to carry out what our government could not carry out. 177 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:32,000 It's the worst thing you can do as a hacker, in our opinion. If you're trying to damage 178 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,800 infrastructure, you're not helping the people there, you're damaging people there. Because 179 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,920 free flow of information is what hackers want. If you're destroying information networks, 180 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,480 it's a completely different thing from changing some images on a web server or whatever. 181 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:55,360 So this has to be very carefully kept apart in our eyes. What would you suggest for someone 182 00:21:55,360 --> 00:22:00,560 who is a hacker that's concerned about these issues? How should they be expressing themselves? 183 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:07,840 Yes, we are trying to set up some kind of discussion board to go with one or two of 184 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:16,400 the hacker groups to discuss these issues. I think the statement, when released in the next 185 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:22,480 days, will give a good focal point for such discussions, all the news groups and IRC chats. 186 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,880 Is there any way people can contact you or become part of these discussions? 187 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:34,480 Yes, there's an email address, especially for this discussion. It's hacktivism 188 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:46,400 at berlin.ccc.de. I repeat, it's hacktivism at berlin.ccc.de. People can write their opinions 189 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,920 there. We try to get it into the statement or to get it onto the discussion board there. 190 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,280 Okay, great. We want to thank you for joining us at this late hour. How is everything else 191 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,920 with the Chaos Computer Club these days? It's very busy. We had our congress in 192 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:07,840 December in Berlin. We had more than 2,000 people here. We were very happy with our party 193 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:14,080 and our discussions and stuff. It was quite an emotional congress because we discussed our 194 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:22,480 history and recent things with Tron. Everybody left the place happy. We are sorting things out 195 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:28,880 right now and trying to get our stuff ready again and set up our networks again. Everybody's quite 196 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:34,320 happy here. Okay, well, good to hear that. I want to wish you well and keep us updated on this. 197 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:40,000 Okay. Take care then. Thank you. Bye. Bye-bye. That was Frank from the Chaos Computer Club 198 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:48,400 over in Germany. They are distributing a letter, kind of like a petition, I guess, that 199 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,280 pretty much condemns what the Legion of the Underground said in late December that 200 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,560 certain computer systems in certain countries are going to be targeted because of human rights 201 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:07,120 abuses. I understand people being concerned with things like this, but I think Frank made 202 00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:11,600 some very good points. Once hackers are seen as tools of war, they're going to be seen like that 203 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,360 for a long time and they're going to be used like that. It's kind of playing into the hands 204 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:23,200 of the authority figures, but we'd like to hear all kinds of views on that particular subject. 205 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,040 Okay, so in other news, and there are a lot of other things going on. We'll be taking phone calls 206 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:36,960 in just a moment. 212-209-2900. This is the most ridiculous thing I think I've heard in a long time. 207 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:43,040 It has to do with America Online. This comes from the Wired News Service. 208 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:50,240 A U.S. Federal District Court judge rejected an effort by America Online to block AT&T's 209 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:57,680 WorldNet service from using the phrases, you have mail, buddy list, and I am on its service, 210 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:04,000 according to AT&T. AOL uses a similar phrase, you've got mail, to inform subscribers that email 211 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,560 has been sent to them. AT&T actually wants them to not be able to say, I'm sorry, AOL wants them 212 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:14,560 not to be able to say you have mail because they say you've got mail. This is the most absurd 213 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:20,240 instance of corporate greed and irrational behavior I think I've seen in ages. 214 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,280 The ruling came in a hearing on AOL's request for a temporary restraining order and preliminary 215 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:33,360 injunction against AT&T for trademark infringement. The suit seeks punitive damages. Who knows how 216 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:39,680 much AOL has been harmed by AT&T saying you have mail. Particularly the term, you have mail, 217 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:45,120 strikes me as the epitome of a generic mark, said William Bosch, attorney at Boston law firm 218 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:50,400 Sugarman, Rogers, Barshek, and Cohen in Boston. The particular reason why they quoted that is 219 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,480 the law firm in Boston. I don't know if they're representing anybody here. How do you describe 220 00:25:54,480 --> 00:26:00,880 the concept, you have mail, without using the words you have and mail? Of course, it sort of 221 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:07,040 makes sense. AOL has been using the phrase, you have mail, since 1989, Primrose said. Now, they 222 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,040 even got it wrong because they used the phrase, you've got mail, not you have mail, right? All 223 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:17,040 right, so nobody knows what's going on, but come on already. I mean, yeah, all right, you can't go 224 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:22,000 out and start an online service called America Online, all right, because that name is taken, 225 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,240 but these are words that we use in normal everyday speech. You have mail, you've got mail, 226 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:31,760 whatever. Let's give this corporate mentality a rest just for a little while. 227 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:39,040 Unbelievable. I think that's a bigger threat than Y2K is ever going to be, but for those of you who 228 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,120 still believe Y2K is going to be the big major threat, we have plenty of stories for you as far 229 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:51,520 as that goes. Coca-Cola said on Wednesday it has a plan to ensure that its worldwide distribution 230 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:57,600 runs smoothly in the face of anticipated year 2000 computer problems, but it has no control 231 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:03,360 over some elements. Yes, we may be distributing arsenic instead of coke, but these things happen, 232 00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:10,640 you know. We're all ready. We're all ready for whatever happens. Coca-Cola spokesman Bill 233 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:16,160 Hensel said the readiness of governments is a big issue. In many areas where we do business, 234 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,960 the governments control the phone systems, the power systems, and the water, so there 235 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,880 is a major concern making sure the governments are adequately prepared. It's a big issue. 236 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:32,000 People are going to need their coke. He added, however, that Coca-Cola was well on its way 237 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,360 to resolving Y2K issues and has backup plans in place. 238 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,720 Coca-Cola has already spent 60 million dollars on Y2K preparedness and anticipates 239 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,520 spending between 130 million and 160 million dollars total. 240 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,160 The Atlanta company in a statement filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission said 241 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,680 its contingency plans include, get this, and some of you out there might want to 242 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:04,480 take notes, stockpiling raw and packaging materials, increasing inventory levels, 243 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:11,920 securing alternate sources of supply, and other appropriate measures. It's that latter one that 244 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:18,000 kind of worries me. This from the Associated Press, the case of a 12-year-old boy who 245 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,800 downloaded dozens of sexually explicit images from a public library's internet computer terminal 246 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,320 has drawn national attention because it's the first in which a library has been sued for not 247 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:34,240 installing software that blocks pornographic sites. Last month, the city of Livermore, 248 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:39,440 California, filed its second motion to have the case dismissed. On January 1st, 249 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,240 an Alameda County Superior Court judge will decide whether the Livermore library 250 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,840 is liable for the dissemination of materials that, according to the suit, are harmful to minors. 251 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,440 This minor obviously had to type in the URL to get there in the first place. 252 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:03,120 I mean, you know, that's part of it. I mean, if you walk into a library and the librarian runs up 253 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,320 to you and forces pornographic material onto you, especially if you don't have a license, 254 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:14,640 especially if you're 12 years old, okay, I can see that being an issue. I can see someone saying, 255 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,280 that's not right. But a 12-year-old kid goes in, knows how to use a computer, 256 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:24,720 he can probably figure out a way around any blocking software anyway, and connects to 257 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,000 something that he's not supposed to see. Well, obviously, he knows it's there. Obviously, 258 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,040 he's seen these kinds of things before. He wouldn't be going there. 259 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:37,120 The librarian walking by, seeing, you know, Debbie does Dallas or whatever on the Mac, 260 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:42,480 says, no, no, let's go over here instead. Turn that off. Don't put that on your computer. That's 261 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:49,840 the extent of looking out for someone's public interest. Instead, we make a big national case 262 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:55,600 out of it. How nice. In October, Alameda County Superior Court Judge George C. Hernandez Jr. 263 00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,480 threw out much of the case brought by the boy's mother, identified in court records as Katie, 264 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:07,840 and identified in court records as Kathleen R. of Concord. You know, people like this worry me. 265 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,440 I mean, what's going to happen? The kid goes to someone's house, does the same thing. Is she 266 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:18,720 going to sue her neighbor now? Is she going to sue the internet? It's just, it's crazy. Obviously, 267 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,760 he was interested in pursuing this kind of thing, and one way or another, he'll probably 268 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:29,520 figure out a way to do it. San Jose attorney Michael Millon had argued the city wasted 269 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:36,000 attractive nuisance by failing to restrict internet use. Yes, the internet is an attractive 270 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,720 nuisance, just like one of those swimming pools where people leave the water out and 271 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:44,720 idiots go and dive into it. Attractive nuisance. It's a violation of constitutional rights for 272 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:50,080 the library to hold themselves out as a safe place for children while it is, in fact, harming them. 273 00:30:51,040 --> 00:31:01,280 Millon said he is seeking a city policy that forbids minors from using computer terminals 274 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:08,480 without parental supervision. What a great idea. Every library will have two people at a terminal, 275 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,080 a child and a parent sitting in the background. What if the parent wants to look at pornography? 276 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:20,400 You know, that doesn't really solve anything. But Livermore deputy city attorney Gabriel 277 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,720 Whelan said holding the library responsible would set a dangerous precedent. Our position is that a 278 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:30,080 public library should offer everything under the sun to the public, she said. Libraries in general 279 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,640 should not be put in the position of being a censor. That job is up to each individual family. 280 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,160 The issue of children's access to pornography through computers has resulted in many librarians 281 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,960 in California and across the country placing filters on their systems. Several bills before 282 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:51,840 the legislature would mandate filtering for children in public libraries. The judge in 283 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,560 the Livermore case, however, agreed with the city's argument that the 1996 Communications Decency Act, 284 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:03,920 which rewrote laws for the internet age, immunized the city. The city argued that 285 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,840 Congress intended to hold worldwide website providers accountable for the material they 286 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,640 publish electronically, but not third parties such as internet service firms and libraries. 287 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:19,920 In November, Millen amended his lawsuit alleging the city had violated the boy's constitutional 288 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:26,400 rights to due process in a way that shocks the conscious. It's the same as if the library had 289 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:32,080 a razor blade display case, this is great, and allowed children to handle blades and the kids 290 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:38,320 got cut. It's so outrageous that it rises to the level of constitutional deprivation. 291 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:45,200 I think this has risen to the level of constitutional depravity, but I'm sure these 292 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:50,400 analogies will continue to be drawn. Library the razor blade display case, that's lovely. 293 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:56,400 The actions and policy of the city at a bare minimum display a deliberate indifference to 294 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:02,480 the health and welfare of children, the attorney wrote in his legal brief, but Assistant City 295 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,040 Attorney Dan Sodergren argued that the city did not violate any constitutional rights and has no 296 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,800 responsibility to protect the boy from the internet. There is no constitutional right to a 297 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,920 safe internet, he argued. To violate the boy's right to due process, the city would have had to 298 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:23,200 single him out for an abuse of power. And that's what we have to look forward to in the future. 299 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaking of America Online, AOL said on Monday that its members spent over $1 billion with online 300 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:41,280 retailers through the 1998 holiday shopping season. It's clear, said AOL President and Chief Operating 301 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:48,400 Officer Bob Pittman, it's clear that this past holiday shopping season marks a turning point 302 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:54,080 point when shopping online really became a key part of consumer shopping patterns. 303 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,080 Though it is a critical time to get new online buyers into the habit, 304 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:06,720 shopping online isn't just a holiday phenomenon. AOL said 1.25 million of its members shopped 305 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:14,240 online for the first time this holiday season, and AOL members spent an estimated $1.2 billion 306 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,320 in the period between November 26th and December 27th. 307 00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:25,840 And December 17th was the heaviest shopping day, as well as AOL's best retail day ever, 308 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,160 generating over $36 million in sales of consumer goods and travel-related services. 309 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,840 I miss the days when the net was non-commercial. 310 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:40,560 Oh well. Here's a fun story. Police are looking for as many as five men who forced their way 311 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:46,000 into a telephone company office on Sunday and made off with vital computer equipment, 312 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:55,760 disconnecting phone service for some 75,000 customers. The masked robbers first tried to 313 00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:02,160 use a blowtorch to open the back of one of Sprint's central telephone offices about 8am, 314 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:07,840 but were unsuccessful. Then, the men knocked on the front door of the office located in southwest 315 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:15,440 Las Vegas. When an employee opened it, they forced their way in, brandishing handguns and 316 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:22,960 stun guns. The unidentified victims, two men and one woman, were rounded up, bound, 317 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,760 and shot with stun guns. One victim also was severely beaten. The victims were taken to 318 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,480 University Medical Center for treatment, and one man remained in the hospital Monday with 319 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,800 non-life-threatening injuries. The robbers then went directly to the computer equipment that was 320 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:43,600 operating the phone system at the time and began removing it. It was clear they knew exactly what 321 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:51,920 they wanted, Sprint spokeswoman Detra Page told APB News, which is where we're getting this story from. 322 00:35:54,400 --> 00:36:00,160 It was clear they knew exactly what they wanted. The theft left most of Sprint's 100,000 Las Vegas 323 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:05,520 area customers without phone service for as long as seven hours, while technicians scrambled to 324 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:11,440 install new equipment and restore service. Phone service to all affected area customers was restored 325 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:17,600 by mid-afternoon Sunday. Neither Sprint officials nor police would reveal the amount or type of 326 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:22,400 equipment stolen. Las Vegas police said it's the first time they've heard of such a theft. 327 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,600 It's an unusual crime, said spokesman Steve Merriweather, who did not know of any other 328 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,720 similar cases in the area or whether there was a black market for such specialized equipment. 329 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,840 A spokesman at Sprint's national headquarters in Kansas City said he was unaware of any other cases 330 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:44,400 of phone company computers being stolen. The incident is under investigation by Las Vegas 331 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,320 police and Sprint's security division, but that's a pretty wacky story right there. 332 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,480 And I'm glad they didn't use the word hacker in it anywhere. That's crime. That's crime involving 333 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,440 computers, involving phones, but it's got nothing to do with hacking. But you know what's funny is 334 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:07,120 these guys will probably be out before Kevin Mitnick is, and that's just wrong. That's a pretty 335 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:14,160 sad state of affairs. So I don't know what they were up to. Maybe there were like records in there 336 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:19,120 that they wanted to grab before somebody else got them. I don't know. Were they going to start 337 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:25,200 their own phone company someplace? Pretty weird. Finally, before we take some phone calls, 338 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,400 the latest in the corporate merger race, of course, last week we were talking about the 339 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:36,240 biggest corporate mergers of the year. We left out a rather big one. We left out Exxon and Mobil. 340 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:42,960 That's a pretty big merger. In fact, what's that? It's not computer related. Why would you want to? 341 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:49,200 Well, we were talking about corporate mergers. It's kind of relevant, I think. They created 342 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,760 the biggest company ever on earth. You know, that's a pretty scary thing right there. 343 00:37:55,280 --> 00:38:02,960 So that voice, by the way, is the voice of Isaac. Just flew in from Queens. And there are more 344 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:08,240 mergers yet to come. Bell Atlantic, they're not satisfied yet. They took over 9x. They're in the 345 00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:15,680 process of taking over GTE. Now they want AirTouch. They want AirTouch. They're the largest, 346 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,840 Bell Atlantic, the largest local phone service provider in the United States. They're considering 347 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:26,000 a $45 billion stock acquisition of AirTouch, the country's biggest wireless phone company. 348 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,920 An agreement could be announced as early as today. Is an agreement announced? I didn't hear 349 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,800 one, but it's possible they might have done it quietly. If the two do merge, the new national 350 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:43,360 company could rival wireless industry leader AT&T Corp in size, according to analysts. But the thing 351 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,240 is, it's also going to exceed them as far as local phone service and all kinds of other things. 352 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,280 A one-page statement issued by Bell Atlantic and AirTouch, however, said the discussions do not 353 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:59,360 guarantee a merger will take place. For one thing, they're already partners in a wireless joint 354 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:06,400 venture called Primeco. But I imagine they'll figure a way out of that. Also, GTE has to approve 355 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,000 the deal before it can be announced, since they're in the process of being taken over as well. 356 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:17,360 These companies just keep getting bigger and bigger and fewer and fewer. Where does it ever end? 357 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:27,440 Okay, we have news from the Justin Peterson camp. Well, that's a weird sound. Where's that coming 358 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:33,360 from? That's my new voicemail. New voicemail? Yes, I've received. Okay, I've never heard that one 359 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:40,720 before. All right, this is from the Los Angeles Daily News. Computer hacker Justin Peterson's 360 00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:45,120 second stint as a fugitive from the law is over. This time he is facing jail time for his game of 361 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:50,720 hide-and-seek with the federal government. The former FBI informant Monday made his first trip 362 00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:57,040 to court since he was arrested last month in a Studio City apartment. The one-legged, long-haired, 363 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:02,000 38-year-old had been a fugitive since September 30th, when U.S. District Judge Stephen Wilson 364 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:07,520 signed a bench warrant for his arrest, asserting that he violated the terms of his supervised 365 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:14,640 release from an earlier jail sentence. After a short hearing on Monday, Wilson said Peterson's 366 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:22,960 fate will be determined January 12th. Prosecutors say his run from the law could result in up to 24 367 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:28,880 months behind bars. Peterson's lawyer Nathan Hockman said his client hasn't admitted or denied 368 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:34,320 the allegations yet, but probably would have something to say next week. Since Peterson went 369 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:39,520 on the run in September, he kept anything but a low profile. His answer machine messages still 370 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:45,200 were returned, and he left a letter on his worldwide web page. Alas, rest assured I am 371 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:50,080 somewhere having fun with a nice-looking lady, enjoying the first freedom I have felt in some 372 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:55,840 time, he wrote in November. Peterson also claimed that he had taken a job overseas, 373 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,040 but authorities said he was hiding in the San Fernando Valley all along. 374 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:05,120 He was arrested without incident on December 11th in Studio City, said U.S. Marshals spokesman 375 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:12,320 Victor Zamudio. He had been staying in that area. Peterson, who lost a leg in a motorcycle 376 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:19,440 accident, also was a fugitive from October 1993 to August 1994, after he was accused of computer 377 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,560 hacking into a bank and paying himself $150,000 and phoning in bomb threats to distract bank 378 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:29,600 officials. He was sentenced to 41 months in prison and served his time, but court records show 379 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:34,480 that he violated his supervised release agreement when he left the halfway house in August. 380 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:42,880 It's pretty unbelievable, quite a story. And you know, we've been talking about this on the 381 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,600 on the Mitnick list quite a bit, about this story about, you know, 382 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:52,000 obviously the whole Mitnick case and the latest problems that Kevin has been having in prison. 383 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,160 One person really kind of summed this up, I think, in a pretty good way. 384 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,520 Exactly what did Kevin Mitnick do that was even comparable to anything Justin Peterson did? 385 00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:08,320 Here we have a six-figure thief who phones in false bomb scares to cover his tracks 386 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,480 and is sentenced to less time than Kevin spends waiting for trial. 387 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:19,200 What exactly did Kevin do at worst, if every allegation of the government is true? Lie to 388 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,200 a couple of corporate drones in order to convince them to hand him information he could use to copy 389 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:28,720 something proprietary? How is that even remotely comparable to stealing actual money from actual 390 00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:36,080 people while actively threatening their lives? It's a damn good question. 391 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,120 Maybe someday we'll hear the answer. 392 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,600 212-209-2900 is our phone number. 393 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,600 All right, pick a number from one to eight, and if it's rebel, it's your fault. 394 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:03,040 What do you say? Five? Okay, all right, five. Good evening, you're on the air. 395 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:10,880 All right, that's it. Wait a minute. You know, you sound like you think right now, so 396 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,120 I don't know exactly how this happened, but what are you talking through? It sounds like 397 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,040 you're talking through a pot. I'm talking on a payphone. You're talking on a payphone. 398 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:24,560 Okay, is this a foreign payphone? It's a Bell Atlantic payphone. Does that explain it? 399 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,280 Maybe it does. Okay, let's be quick about this. What's on your mind? 400 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:39,040 You're talking about hacking websites. There are websites that are not hacked. In other words, 401 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:44,320 the websites that get hacked, those are the people who don't understand how to secure their 402 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:49,840 systems, right? Or who have insiders who don't like them. Yeah, something like that. 403 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,240 Okay, when I used to have a website, somebody changed some things on my website. 404 00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:58,320 That's because I didn't know how to set certain things, like the permissions. Is that the same? 405 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:04,400 Nobody can hack the 2600 website, right? Why do you say something like that? Why do you go on the 406 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:11,600 air and issue what is pretty much an ultimatum that the 2600 website cannot... Any site can 407 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:16,480 be hacked. It's possible. You're a fool if you think that it's impossible to hack something. 408 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,800 And I'll be the first person to say that it's certainly possible it could be hacked. 409 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:22,160 Absolutely. 410 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:27,680 No, but my point is that, in other words, with the phones. I stay at some motels that you cannot 411 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:32,640 make free phone calls on the phones because they know that the operators know that it's a hotel 412 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:38,880 phone. And there's some that you can slip by and you can make a free phone call by having the 413 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,280 operator dial it. You know what I'm saying? See, that's a very simple type of setup. That's 414 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,200 something where either you disallow calls to certain numbers or you allow calls to certain 415 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,920 numbers or there are other numbers that sort of get around the restrictions. Lots of times there 416 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:58,160 are ways around that, but it's pretty much a yes, no thing on a phone system. It's a lot less 417 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:04,240 complex than a website or where there are many different ways in there, many different things 418 00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:09,520 you can abuse. And also, even if you don't abuse anything, if you just have access to the system 419 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,520 and someone has to have access to the system, you have the human factor. You have the human factor 420 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,080 where you simply have to get a password and you're in. 421 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:22,080 Right. But it's just like the people who run the system, they have to be, you know, the people 422 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:27,360 who have to understand how the system works in order to make it, you know, more secure. That's 423 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:33,600 what my point is. And also, a lot of pay phones in the country are $0.35 a month. 424 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:34,480 I guess that was one of them. 425 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:36,720 All right. 426 00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:42,240 Yeah, I'm looking at one. It says $0.35. And I'm in New York City. Why did this pay phone say $0.35? 427 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:43,280 The other one said $0.20. 428 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,840 Wait, it's a Bell Atlantic pay phone. It says $0.35. Well, you know, a lot of phones have the 429 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:52,560 little things on the top. They flip over. And that saves Bell Atlantic money when they raise prices, 430 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:57,040 because we know that Bell Atlantic, you know, loses money whenever they raise prices. So 431 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:01,280 in order to stop that, they put the new price on the back. So all they have to do is flip it over. 432 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,880 If you want to help Bell Atlantic out, just go flip it over yourself and then you save them money. 433 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,560 All right. I think he's being terminated over there somewhere in New York City. 434 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:16,160 No, you don't get to pick any more numbers, because we already got him. All right. I'll 435 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,440 take that one. What was that? Nine? All right. Let's go all the way down there. Good evening. 436 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:20,080 You're on the air. 437 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,120 Yes, hi. You were talking about the issue about the libraries. 438 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:23,600 Yes. 439 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:28,080 That, well, I run a couple of adult sites and there's supposed to be a law that came out in 440 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:29,200 November, I believe. 441 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:29,840 Yes. 442 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:36,960 That would prohibit sites from allowing children to visit their sites. They would have to have some 443 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,440 kind of credit card verification. I don't know if you knew anything about that. 444 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,720 Well, you see, there are lots of sites that are free. They don't require credit cards. 445 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:49,120 That's kind of one. And I'm worried that if they outlaw that in the United States, 446 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,880 I'm going to have to move my servers over to Canada or Europe. 447 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:57,440 Yes, but you see, it's like the Internet is not really a physical entity. Yes, you could move it 448 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,200 over to Canada. That just means someone's going to have to type .ca afterwards. It doesn't really 449 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:06,160 make that much of a difference. Really, you know, if you put in some effort and say you have to be 450 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:11,600 18 or over to go into this part of the, you know, of the website and someone clicks on that, 451 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:16,000 obviously they're saying they're over 18. And that's, you know, what else can you possibly 452 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,440 be expected to do? Take a picture of their license or something and, you know. 453 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,720 The issue for me is if they had to use a credit card verification, 454 00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:27,760 a lot of people like anonymity, you know, it would go away. 455 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:28,640 That's true. That is true. 456 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,720 And they'd fear that their credit card would be logged. 457 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,160 You know, their credit card would be used in a malicious manner. 458 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,600 And people looking at pornography on the net are kind of funny about anonymity sometimes. 459 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,160 Right. No, they're very worried about anonymity. 460 00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:44,720 And only maybe 15% of your visitors are actually going to sign up. 461 00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:47,840 Right. But you see, it goes bigger than pornography. This is, you know, 462 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:52,480 a whole issue as far as people's right to anonymity, period, as far as anything that 463 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,200 they're interested in accessing. Who's going to stand up and defend pornography? Very few 464 00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,920 people actually will do that. But it's a foot in the door when all of a sudden you have to 465 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:07,600 account for yourself. You have to identify yourself when accessing this particular part 466 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:13,520 of the net. And this can be extended to something else, which a lot of us would want to protect. 467 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,680 Right. And we have to be careful with this. 468 00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:21,120 Right. So the last thing I heard about it was that they postponed the hearings until 469 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,760 December and then December they postponed it for another three months. 470 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,080 So there is an organization to fight against this ruling. 471 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,600 And what's that organization? 472 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:30,080 WAPO. 473 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:31,680 OK. Can you give us... 474 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:36,720 Well, the dot sites against, you know, I'm not really sure for the standing. 475 00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:39,040 OK. Where are they located? Is there a way to... 476 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:40,960 Well, they're located in the United States. 477 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:41,840 They have a website. 478 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,680 Right. I'll try to phone in the URL next week. 479 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:46,880 OK. Just mail it to us and we'll... 480 00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,120 Right. I'll email it to you guys and maybe we can post it. 481 00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,960 OK. Thanks for calling. Our email address, by the way, oth at 2600.com. 482 00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,400 Of course, we want to spread all kinds of information on... 483 00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,920 However, these battles are shaping up. 484 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,880 It's really going to get interesting in the next few years. 485 00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:04,160 Good evening. 486 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:04,880 Whoops. 487 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:05,840 Good evening. You're on the air. 488 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:07,760 Hey, how you doing? 489 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:08,320 OK. How are you? 490 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:09,280 Great. Great program. 491 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:09,760 I thank you. 492 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:14,640 I was just curious and maybe this is out of ignorance, but I would like to know, 493 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:21,040 do you guys ever come out with maybe 10 top best websites that you think are very informative 494 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,240 and on the net at all? 495 00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:24,400 Well, we don't rank them like that because, first of all, 496 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,560 there are so many websites throughout the world. 497 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:32,720 It would be impossible and unfair to number them in order of what's cool and what isn't. 498 00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:34,960 If we hear something that's good, though, we talk about it. 499 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,440 We either print it in the magazine or we talk about it on the air. 500 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:38,560 Great. Great. Great. 501 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:40,320 That's just it. I think it shows great. 502 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,080 Thanks. And of course, if you know of any interesting websites or any 503 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,040 hacked websites, please let us know about those. 504 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:48,560 We do like to hear about them. 505 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,080 I heard some sites in Chile got hacked in the last week or so. 506 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,960 Some statements about Pinochet were put on there. 507 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,760 And that, to me, that's a legitimate form of political expression. 508 00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:03,680 I mean, how else are you going to get the word out about something that's really pertinent? 509 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,360 You can't print your own newspaper. 510 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,520 And some countries are not even allowed to print your own newspaper. 511 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:13,120 And meanwhile, you have these websites run by the government that say all these 512 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:14,800 propaganda things to the rest of the world. 513 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:19,200 If you have an opportunity to change that and reach the rest of the world and say something else, 514 00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,720 who's to say that that's something evil? 515 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,760 Seems to me that's what free speech is all about. 516 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:26,880 Good evening. You're on the air. 517 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,040 Hi. Yeah. How else can you let people know? 518 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:30,480 Through micro broadcasting. 519 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:31,040 Well, there's that too. 520 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:31,840 You're back on the air. 521 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:32,640 You're back on the air. 522 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:33,200 Yes. 523 00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,240 OK. Can you give us any details as to where we can find you? 524 00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:38,000 Not physically, obviously, but on the radio. 525 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,200 88.7. 526 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:40,240 Back on the old frequency. 527 00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:47,200 By the way, BAI 99.5 here is the only station that allows us to speak freely like the other stations. 528 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:49,200 So I do appreciate it. 529 00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,760 I would not plug it if you didn't invite me. 530 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:52,080 Right. 531 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:52,640 So thank you. 532 00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:59,680 It's 88.7 and still this radio usually from around five or six till 1 a.m. 533 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:01,520 Great. Well, I'll try to listen tonight. 534 00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:06,960 My show is called Ten Million Flies on Monday night at 10 p.m. 535 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:11,040 Excellent. Well, good luck to you guys and keep us updated if anything else changes. 536 00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:12,080 Thanks. I certainly will. 537 00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:12,400 All right. 538 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:17,840 And that's also another interesting battle is going to be taking place in the years ahead. 539 00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:18,720 Micro broadcasting. 540 00:51:18,720 --> 00:51:22,640 There's rumors, actually not really rumors, but, you know, 541 00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:28,080 statements that the FCC is actually thinking of licensing micro broadcasting. 542 00:51:28,720 --> 00:51:32,320 National Association of Broadcasters, NAB, the evil people, 543 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,240 they're the ones that don't want this to happen. 544 00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:36,160 It's a big threat to them and their commercial interests. 545 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,920 They want companies to be owning 500 radio stations or more 546 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:44,640 and a 20 watt radio station broadcasting to a city is a big threat to them. 547 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:49,280 Well, that's the FCC actually is smart enough to realize that that's wrong 548 00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,560 and maybe they will serve a purpose after all. 549 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,160 We'll just have to see how that pans out. 550 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,320 But micro broadcasting is something that I think is going to be one 551 00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:00,000 of the most important issues in the months and years ahead. 552 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,080 212-209-2900. 553 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:03,120 Good evening. You're on the air. 554 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:05,440 Hey, man, it's Farah. 555 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:06,480 Hi, how you doing? 556 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,240 Good. I have two questions to ask. 557 00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:08,800 Go ahead. 558 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,520 First, I was wondering, is there a legal penalty 559 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,880 against putting free cabin stickers on stop signs or any kind of signs like that? 560 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,840 Well, gee whiz, you know, everything carries a penalty. 561 00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,520 You know, it depends on how badly they want to get you. 562 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:27,280 If you drive one mile over the speed limit, you know, you could get arrested for that. 563 00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,200 If, you know, there's literally anything. 564 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,440 Just ask Bernie S, any minor thing. 565 00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:35,840 If they really want to get you, they'll get you for it. 566 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,240 I have never heard of anybody being arrested 567 00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:40,480 or gotten into trouble for putting a sticker on a stop sign, 568 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,000 although I'm sure there are people out there who have. 569 00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:47,760 So I can't advise it, but I really don't think we're talking about a major crime here. 570 00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:48,560 Okay. 571 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:52,400 Second, is there a maximum time Kevin can stay at MDC? 572 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:54,960 You would think there would be. 573 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:56,560 Isaac, do you know something about this? 574 00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:01,520 Well, if he terminates before he's actually brought to trial, that would kind of be. 575 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:02,080 Yeah, okay. 576 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:02,640 That's thanks. 577 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:03,840 Thanks for that insight there. 578 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:08,000 But I don't, you know, I would hope that there would be, 579 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,200 but I've heard figures from people inside the prison. 580 00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:12,880 Of course, this is secondhand that I've heard this. 581 00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,840 They say we can hold people up to 10 years, you know, pre-trial. 582 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:18,880 It's insane. 583 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,120 And I don't, I don't doubt it after seeing what's going on here. 584 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:22,640 I mean, we're up to almost four years now. 585 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:24,640 It's got to stop sometime. 586 00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:26,720 It really has to stop and it has to stop soon. 587 00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:28,080 Yeah. Okay. 588 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:28,960 That's all I wanted to know. 589 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:29,760 Okay. Thanks a lot. 590 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,520 I really appreciate people having an interest in getting the word out. 591 00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,160 And my thanks go out to all the people who have been doing that over the past, 592 00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:42,320 however many years you've been involved in, because it has made a big difference. 593 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:48,080 It might not be apparent right now, but it is, it does make a big difference. 594 00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:53,840 Kevin feels this every time we see one of those stickers someplace, it means something. 595 00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:55,040 It gets out to more people. 596 00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,240 And in the end, it's what's going to make the difference. 597 00:53:59,280 --> 00:53:59,520 All right. 598 00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:01,040 Let's take another phone call. 599 00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:02,400 Let's go all the way over. 600 00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,040 You know, this is the very last call. 601 00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,000 I'm going to take this one. 602 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:07,200 This person called in very late. 603 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:07,520 Good evening. 604 00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:08,160 You're on the air. 605 00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:08,400 Yes. 606 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:08,960 Good evening. 607 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,720 Could you tell me, could you tell me your prediction of where a computer business would 608 00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:15,120 be in the next a hundred years or so? 609 00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,440 Oh, that's a, that's a hard question. 610 00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:18,160 How can I pot? 611 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,400 I mean, let's take it down to 25 years. 612 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:20,560 Yeah. 613 00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,280 Cause think of like where the computer business was a hundred years ago. 614 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,280 You know, it's, it's, it's, it's changed quite a bit. 615 00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:26,560 It's probably going to change even more. 616 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:28,880 Um, I see. 617 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,600 I'm not really in the computer business, so to say. 618 00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,760 So I don't know. 619 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:34,960 It's going to radically change. 620 00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,280 It's going to be different than anything we could possibly imagine. 621 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,440 And anybody here have a prediction? 622 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:40,400 Nobody. 623 00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:43,840 That's almost impossible to answer. 624 00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:45,520 Do you have any, any, any ideas? 625 00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,920 I want to know, do you think hacking will always be? 626 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:48,640 Okay. 627 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,880 Hacking is always going to exist in some form that I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm certain of there is 628 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:57,520 hacking before computers, someone playing around with technology, you know, whether 629 00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:02,320 it's discovering electricity or just, you know, playing around with the first television 630 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,760 set or the first radios, that's a form of hacking. 631 00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:11,360 It's, it's, it's just, you know, experimenting with things that there are no real rules about. 632 00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:15,600 And people who don't understand will constantly be misinterpreting what it is you're trying to do. 633 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:21,360 But if you're willing to waste a lot of time and just do something methodical and repetitious, 634 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:22,800 that's a form of hacking. 635 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:24,960 And I think, yeah, that's going to exist in some form. 636 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,600 And more than that, I think people outside the hacking world will begin to realize how 637 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:34,720 important it is to have that kind of mentality in order to progress and actually learn something 638 00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:36,080 to the benefit of everyone. 639 00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:36,800 Yes, I agree. 640 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:37,520 Thank you very much. 641 00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:38,160 Thanks for calling. 642 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:40,400 Good evening. 643 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:41,200 You're on off the hook. 644 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:42,080 Hello. 645 00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:42,320 Yes. 646 00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,960 I'm calling you with a 1010 502 pound. 647 00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,760 And I wanted to ask you how safe or unsafe that might be. 648 00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:55,440 Well, I imagine it would be pretty safe, but I guess you're not making a normal call. 649 00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,920 It sounds like you're making maybe a free call. 650 00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:01,280 Illegal call here that we're talking about. 651 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:02,160 You're making a. 652 00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:02,800 You know, I'm sorry. 653 00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:09,040 I was just chucking quarters in, but that 1010 502 pound works for me for local. 654 00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,600 And I've heard other people say it works for them otherwise. 655 00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:13,760 So I don't know anything about it. 656 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:14,800 That's what I'm asking. 657 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:16,240 Well, I don't know what company that is. 658 00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:17,520 Do they, do they announce who they are? 659 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:19,120 No, they don't. 660 00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:19,620 Okay. 661 00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:24,880 So basically you're saying that if you dial 1010 502, you have to dial the pound to get an operator 662 00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:30,480 or 1010 502 pound then comes on a long beep for maybe 20 seconds or so. 663 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,600 But during the beep, you dial the error code in the number. 664 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:33,920 Really? 665 00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,400 And it just goes through from a payphone even. 666 00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:39,600 Did you try it from a payphone? 667 00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:42,480 Yeah, I tried for a payphone local-wise. 668 00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:43,040 It worked. 669 00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:43,920 Uh-huh. 670 00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:45,360 Well, you know, we'll give it a shot. 671 00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:46,480 You know, we'll see if it works. 672 00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,040 I'm sure it's not going to work from here because we have a weird phone system, 673 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,880 but I'll certainly try it from outside and see if it works. 674 00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:54,400 It's 1010 502? 675 00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:54,880 Yep. 676 00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:55,600 Okay. 677 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:56,320 All right. 678 00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:57,280 Thanks for calling. 679 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,080 And thanks for the tip because you might be saving us lots of money. 680 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,400 Let's, let's see what happens here. 681 00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:06,320 1010 502. 682 00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:08,800 Why do I sound like I'm in a tunnel? 683 00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:10,240 All right. 684 00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:11,840 Let's, let's figure out who they are first. 685 00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:22,960 I wonder if our phone system could even handle this. 686 00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:27,520 I think I've crashed the whole thing. 687 00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:31,200 No response whatsoever. 688 00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:35,360 What do you think is happening? 689 00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:36,560 I think it's dead, Jim. 690 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:38,960 I've killed the phone system. 691 00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:39,280 Okay. 692 00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:41,040 Well, gee whiz. 693 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,080 We'll have to try this from outside from a normal phone. 694 00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:45,760 Oh, well, wait a minute. 695 00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,240 He did say to try the pound sign thing. 696 00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:49,040 So let's try that. 697 00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:55,360 See if that works. 698 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,240 See, I think what's happening here, I think our phone system is catching it 699 00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:02,080 and preventing these numbers from actually getting out. 700 00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:03,440 We're being held hostage. 701 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:05,840 Yeah, that's what's happening. 702 00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:07,120 All right. 703 00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:11,280 Well, speaking of being held hostage, we've held our listeners hostage long enough. 704 00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,920 We're out of here until next week. 705 00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:16,160 And I believe we're doing a fundraiser. 706 00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:22,240 So get your checkbooks ready, folks, because it's time to pay us back for all the knowledge 707 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,120 we've been giving you over the past however many months you've been listening. 708 00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:31,040 And of course, we'll be updating people on Y2K as that draws ever closer. 709 00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:39,120 And then the Kevin Mitnick situation as things get updated in that particular area as well. 710 00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,400 Until then, this is Emanuel Goldstein for Off The Hook. 711 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:43,200 Bear with us. 712 00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,000 The theme is hiding. 713 00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,160 Yeah, we only have one working theme machine. 714 00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:50,880 So we have to swap things around. 715 00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:51,600 But there's a theme. 716 00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,000 And next time you hear that, it'll be next week at this time. 717 00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,440 And until then, it's Emanuel Goldstein. 718 00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:01,440 Good night. 719 01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:34,480 If you or a family member have been diagnosed with HIV or AIDS and you have a problem with 720 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:39,760 your government or medical benefits, housing, or need help providing for your children or 721 01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:45,760 other family members in the event of illness or death, Bed-Stuy Legal Services may be able 722 01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:46,560 to assist you. 723 01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:58,080 For more information, please call Bed-Stuy Legal Services on a Monday or Tuesday at 718-636-1155. 724 01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:02,800 That's 718-636-1155. 725 01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:08,400 This has been a public service announcement by WBAI on behalf of the Bedford Stuyvesant 726 01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:10,720 Community Legal Services Corporation.